[CJ22]

Some interesting comments from people who live in both NZ and Australia about the relative merits of both. It seems there are a lot of disgruntled Kiwis at the moment. Does this represent a fair picture of the situation?

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/your-views/2007/12/4/your-views-on-living-in-australia/?c_id=1501154

[Rusty]

Can't answer the fair picture question, but there seems to be quotes on that forum more interested in money and what they can own.
I guess no-one on here is moving to NZ to be rich; I would be better off financially here in England, but would see less of my family, have more concerns about kids growing up with a materialistc attitude younger and younger (is it really neccessary for an 8 yr old to have a mobile?), and a goverment/councils desperate to make kids run more, but keep taking school fields and stop them playing on grassed areas near houses. - I will stop now :exit

Having said that, for someone growing up in NZ it seems difficult to be able to afford simple things such as a house - is that any different from any other modern country?

[Nick88]

For me the answer is yes.

The article goes on about people wanting toys like iPods and cars, but for those on this forum the luxuries that might be out of reach would include things like trips back to England to see elderly relatives before they die.

Unfortunately this topic always seems to end up with someone piously telling us that they don't want their children growing up materialistic. Well I don't necessarily see that as a problem, it gives them an incentive to get a work ethic. I count myself as a materialist, and I have always been proud of that fact, and yes, it does get me funny looks sometimes. I strive to make my families live better materially, not with the latest mobile phones and weekend breaks, but with the best home I can justify buying and the greatest financial security I can muster.

All of the people I know that have jumped the ditch are families with young children that just want to have more disposable income to spend having fun at weekends rather than having to work 6-6.5 days a week. Don't get me started on govt tax policy......

Have a look at the threads in the Leaving NZ subforum, and see how many people are leaving because they have been ground down by lack of cash flow.

[Rusty]

For me the answer is yes.

The article goes on about people wanting toys like iPods and cars, but for those on this forum the luxuries that might be out of reach would include things like trips back to England to see elderly relatives before they die.

Unfortunately this topic always seems to end up with someone piously telling us that they don't want their children growing up materialistic. Well I don't necessarily see that as a problem, it gives them an incentive to get a work ethic. I count myself as a materialist, and I have always been proud of that fact, and yes, it does get me funny looks sometimes. I strive to make my families live better materially, not with the latest mobile phones and weekend breaks, but with the best home I can justify buying and the greatest financial security I can muster.

All of the people I know that have jumped the ditch are families with young children that just want to have more disposable income to spend having fun at weekends rather than having to work 6-6.5 days a week. Don't get me started on govt tax policy......

Have a look at the threads in the Leaving NZ subforum, and see how many people are leaving because they have been ground down by lack of cash flow.

Well I'm glad I didn't disappoint you then.
There is a big difference between wanting to earn a living and wanting everything because someone else has it or showing off how much money an individual earns (how I view materialistc).
I want to pay the bills and have free time with my family, if that makes me righteous then so be it. I will happily watch my son play football or go for a bike ride, down the beach, etc. Ipods are not needed for that.
As I said, I would be amazed if people moved to NZ to be rich, more of a balance in life.

[Ojai]

We had the fast paced materialistic life in Los Angeles. We're enjoying the slower paced life here so far. Who knows what the future will bring, we may end up in AUS, or somewhere else. I couldn't have guessed five years ago we'd be here!

But for right now and for the foreseeable future we're perfectly happy here.

[zardell]

Purely from a financial point of view the answer is yes from me too.

There's only the two of us now, so from a lifestyle point of view we can freely choose our lifestyle and where we live it without too many restrictions.

Where we live near Melbourne is very similar in many respects to Hawkes Bay NZ, with the wineries, beaches and the city all on our doorstep.

The main difference is the fact that we have consumeristic choices that NZ simply can't offer.

So are we consumeristic? Is that why we are happy in Oz? Maybe we are and maybe it is, but that's our choice to make.

At least we are in the fortunate position of having disposable income and being able to choose whether or not we spend it and on what.

Having said all that, we weren't in financial dire straights in NZ either and loved our time there - in fact we would love to retire there at some stage, but for now we are where we are meant to be and that's fine.

Will we stay here? Who knows, but we will for now.

Nothing lasts forever does it, so just make the most of what you've got and be grateful for all new opportunities that present themselves and have a go.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say and what else is it they say? Oh yes, money isn't everything. No it's not, but having some spare sure helps!!

Julie

xx

[Georgebulldog]

Well I'm glad I didn't disappoint you then.
There is a big difference between wanting to earn a living and wanting everything because someone else has it or showing off how much money an individual earns (how I view materialistc).
I want to pay the bills and have free time with my family, if that makes me righteous then so be it. I will happily watch my son play football or go for a bike ride, down the beach, etc. Ipods are not needed for that.
As I said, I would be amazed if people moved to NZ to be rich, more of a balance in life.

Me too summed it up well :clap

[StevieD]

hear hear

[dharder]

I want to pay the bills and have free time with my family, if that makes me righteous then so be it. I will happily watch my son play football or go for a bike ride, down the beach, etc. Ipods are not needed for that.

I see less of my family here, I work more hours, for less money, I have less security as far as things like illness and medical coverage goes (oh, and a lot less annual leave and other leave, too).

I know this doesn't apply to everyone, and everyone's situation is very different, but for us, the whole work/life balance worked better in the UK. This is not about having lots of money and lots of stuff, but I find bills for the kids for dentists, and the glasses, and general doctor's appts to be a worry I didn't have before.

Again, obviously that isn't the same for everyone, but I don't think one can automatically assume that life will be better on the work/life balance front than it is in other countries.

I don't think that Australia would be better in those areas, but I don't know enough about it. I know a lot of people are considering moving there from here, and they don't move for Ipods.

Daniela

[StevieD]

Define better and I could give you an answer - maybe? Better compared to what??

I would say compared to our life in UK, then yes, it is better here, hands down. NZ has it's faults yes, but, compared to OUR recent past before we moved here, small change believe me.

[Tia Maria]

CJ22 - are you considering OZ?

I think just comparing OZ to NZ is difficult, you need to be very specific about particular areas, (ie Melbourne to Christchurch, Adelaide to Wellington)in order to assess whether one area offers better lifestyle/job/future prospects.

Even better compare suburbs as cities like Auckland and Sydney are big and can have a very different feel depending on which suburb you live in.

Cheers

Tia

[zardell]

but I find bills for the kids for dentists, and the glasses, and general doctor's appts to be a worry I didn't have before.

I don't think that Australia would be better in those areas, but I don't know enough about it. I know a lot of people are considering moving there from here, and they don't move for Ipods.



Totally agree with the extra costs involved - good old NHS eh?

Australia is no better re dentists/glasses/doctors, but it is certainly no worse either and has to be financially budgeted for.

We didn't move for an Ipod (I thought that was sooo funny Daniella..:laugh ) but we didn't move from NZ because we couldn't make it work either. We moved because the opportunity came along and we took it.

Likewise, the same applied when we moved from UK - NZ. The opportunity came along and we took it.

Julie

xx

[zardell]

I would say compared to our life in UK, then yes, it is better here, hands down. NZ has it's faults yes, but, compared to OUR recent past before we moved here, small change believe me.



And that's all that counts isn't it - where you're at making you happy.

Great post......:nice1

Julie

xx

[StevieD]

Spot on Julie, it is down to the people and what they want, grasping opportunities if they feel they are right for them.

[Potato]

Depends on whether you like a place with real "buzz" (from the flies).

I haven't read much of that Herald link but it's a carbon copy of what they had back in January, Kiwis writing in and slating NZ/praising Aus, all making the Herald very happy because it means they have a "story".
I wonder if this time around they'll have someone write in talking about how safe he feels in Melbourne and how he can walk around in the city centre in the middle of the night naked/wearing a pink bunny suit and not get attacked- he could *never* do that in Auckland. Auckland is the crime capital of the world! Australia is so safe! Jeez...

[Ojai]

I see less of my family here, I work more hours, for less money, I have less security as far as things like illness and medical coverage goes (oh, and a lot less annual leave and other leave, too).

Daniela

I guess coming from the States, it's the opposite. All those things are so far ahead of there, I wouldn't even know what to do with even more!

CJ22 - are you considering OZ?

I think just comparing OZ to NZ is difficult, you need to be very specific about particular areas, (ie Melbourne to Christchurch, Adelaide to Wellington)in order to assess whether one area offers better lifestyle/job/future prospects.

Even better compare suburbs as cities like Auckland and Sydney are big and can have a very different feel depending on which suburb you live in.

Cheers

Tia

I think this is very right. Just in NZ, I don't think I would enjoy Auckland so much (nothing against you Aucklanders!), but Wellington tickles me down to my soul. I know some people SWEAR by Christchurch, and wouldn't want to live here.

[veronica]

like everything else in life there is + and - in this comparison.
we have lived in both places and although it was a long time ago in Oz there are definate minuses. The heat and the humidity can be very wearing, the biting things and the flies can be a pest, the creepy crawlies are supersized and don't use birth control and some of the bitey things bite with a vengence.
The money is better and the warmth can be an advantage when its not at its hottest.
The biggest down side in NZ is the wages, they are appalling and the cost of food is very high in comparison.

[zardell]

we have lived in both places and although it was a long time ago in Oz there are definate minuses. The heat and the humidity can be very wearing, the biting things and the flies can be a pest, the creepy crawlies are supersized and don't use birth control and some of the bitey things bite with a vengence.




You know CJ22, when you think about it seriously, it's totally impossible for anyone to compare NZ to Oz.

Veronica has made some perfectly truthful and valid points, but that's what Oz was like for her. It's not however the Oz I know...

Just like Veronica, we have lived in both places and my little bit of Oz is not ridiculously hot, certainly not humid, we are not bothered by flies (we had more bother with the flies when we were in Palmerston North - honestly) and I've yet to see a creepy crawly bigger than a NZ wetta! Thank God..:laugh )

I've said this before and I will always maintain that a persons view of their home country (UK/US/NZ/wherever) is totally dependant upon the area they lived in and their own personal lifestyle wants/needs and circumstances.

I'm sorry if I'm now going to sound materialistic, but a person can make a go of anything in any country as long as that person has enough money to manage on, in a way that satisfies him.
My hubby was paid a relatively good wage by NZ standards, but nevertheless it wasn't the salary that he believed he was worth. Neither was money the main consideration for moving to Oz, but having said that, my hubby is now paid what he considers to be an acceptable salary and is a happier person because he doesn't feel undervalued anymore.

Julie

xx

[Carol]

I would LOVE to move to Sydney....for a year.
That's about all I could manage. I'd be exhausted! lol
And I certainly couldn't afford the type of house I want there. Its well out of our reach.
Not been anywhere else in Oz - but I must admit Melbourne sounds lovely.

Here - we have had to work very hard to be able to return closer (not there yet!) to the standard of financial living we had in England.
It has been an extremely hard uphill struggle, and to be honest - if I'd known how hard it was going to be, along with my other personal gaps in my life, I wouldn't have done it.
:no
That said - things are always different with hindsight eh?
At least we got to Wellington - having visited the other majors - I'm very glad we came here. The only other place I would consider would be HB.

I am the first to admit I am materialistic.
And I could slip back into my materialistic lifestyle in a heartbeat.....
in fact I do it every time I go back.
But.....
None of my kids are.
They couldn't give a flying fig what brand of clothes they wear etc.

Sure they like their ipods etc (they've just got them at 18 and 16!) and yes my daughter does have a cell phone at 9 - along with the majority of her class. So what? This is 2008. She has no other relatives here other than us - and I want her to be able to contact us if she needs to.
I don't actually consider that "materialistic" especially as I got the ipods free with Hotpoints and the cell phone with Flybuys.
Unfortunately - I dont have the available money - but if I did I WOULD be buying myself an iphone and one of those skinny Mac lappies. Because that is what I want. Instead, I trawl TradeMe daily - looking for a bargain.


Julie is right - all down to personal choices. And if you feel undervalued because you are paid such an appalling wage, then yes - that WILL affect your happiness eventually!

[AndyR]

I suppose I'm quite lucky because I'm not encountering a salary reduction moving to New Zealand. If you convert it directly I'm on the same money. Then with the things I like to spend my money on being cheaper...It works out better for me!

I'm moving to New Zealand because I love the outdoor life! and I want a change! As to whether it will fulfill all my hopes? I won't know until I'm there and have gotten over the honey moon period! Either way, I'll make my own decisions because listening to a lot of peoples opinions that have different lifestyles isn't really a reflection to how another person will enjoy it.

[napiers]

Interesting thread because it's a topic that has come up several times with us over the years. OH would be happy to move to Oz for the financial side of things but knows that there's other factors in our move too - family being the key. Also once I'd started whole NZ application process I have to be honest and say that I would've been reluctant to start all over again if the conversations had gone further. I know that there's a possibility we may go to Australia at some point but I have a far better idea of what to expect in NZ, and even then I know it'll still be different, and family and friends there too. I've spent a lot more time in NZ and love it so I am biased - it's much more appealing to me than Australia at the moment. That may change once we get to NZ and see what it's really about. I'll be following this thread but thanks for it.

[incredible hulse]

Lived in both and would say without hesitation I would be in Oz tomorrow if it was just up to me. Unfortunately with kids now it's not so easy but I personally think we will end up in Oz when the time is right; whilst I'm enjoying my life in NZ I can't see myself getting old in NZ whereas I could in Oz (or UK).
Other than financial benefits Oz offers me a better work environment (and more opportunities), less hours (mainly due to a better infrastructure allowing easier travel), slightly better weather and generally more things to do. If I was solely interested in living in a nice house with little or no mortgage I would stay in NZ. Also the dream of less hours, more time with the kids, more of an outdoor lifestyle in NZ is a bit of a myth for us personally.
I currently work with 5 kiwis - 3 of them are looking to be in Oz by year end.

[victoria]

Hmmm. I like living in NZ because within a few minutes of where I live is a totally different environment. I live in a valley with the Tarauas as hefty neighbours yet in a few mins. drive I can be on the beach,tramping, riding,sailing shopping etc etc. Also having been here nearly a year (already?) & made a LOT of friends & acquaintances visiting another town or city invariably brings me in touch with someone who knows someone we know. (try saying that 3xs fast) I believe in Oz the opposite applies. Love my big small country!!!!!

[jubjub]

Not something we are considering (never say never though...), but here is an article from todays Herald..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=277&objectid=10506432

[napiers]

Hypothetically, of course, as we aren't even in NZ yet, if someone has PR in NZ how easy/difficult in terms of paperwork etc would it be to get to Australia? Presumably because of the way Kiwis and Ozzies can go back and forth you wouldn't have to start completely from scratch? Or would you??

[dharder]

Presumably because of the way Kiwis and Ozzies can go back and forth you wouldn't have to start completely from scratch? Or would you??

From what I understand, you'd have to do it all over again, from scratch, unless you had NZ citizenship. It is different the other way round, I think, if you have PR in Australia, you can come over here, but not from here to there.

But someone may correct me :)

Daniela

[swissmissdesigner]

does anybody knows how many immigrants enter NZ every year?

[Angelonthemove]

MY OH was in OZ from age 6 - 30 and never got citizenship. He was told at 32 that he had been away for 2 years in Europe and would have to apply for residency all over again despite having been there all his adult life. Hence he never went back. He much prefers NZ and the people here.

If we were to move there it would be Melbourne he tells me. I said if he makes me move again it will be back to Europe nearer my daughter.

I think the whole world is going to be one big melting pot as everyone is moving somewhere else. NZ move to OZ as its not too far from family and it easy for them to get in. We would have to wait until we were NZ citizen, if I am here that long I doubt I would bother to go. Plus i have in-laws over there so all the more reason not to:D Plus 4 years in Cyprus put me off the heat and mosquitos

[kowhai]

Despite what is written in the newspapers etc, I believe most NZers are content with their lot. Certainly none of my friends or family are considering a move to Australia.

I must admit I have often wondered why immigrants choose NZ over Oz. ENZ has given me some insight , and while it is always gratifying to read positive comments about the country , I appreciate that for some, NZ will not meet their expectations .

We have done the number crunching , and for us, Australia will not provide a better income or enhance the current lifestyle which we enjoy so much.

[veronica]

hi Zardell How long have you been there now and what part of Oz are you in, we were in Sydney, hence the humidity comment (and queensland is even more humid) and Perth where it gets to the 40s quite regularly in the summer.

[zardell]

hi Zardell How long have you been there now and what part of Oz are you in, we were in Sydney, hence the humidity comment (and queensland is even more humid) and Perth where it gets to the 40s quite regularly in the summer.



Hi Veronica.

7 months next week - can't believe how fast the time has flown.

We're on the outskirts of Melbourne in the Yarra Valley.

Yes, the temps did ocassionally reach 40-41 on a few days in the summer, but the next day it was back to the usual mid - high 20's.

It's really quite cold at the moment though. Coldest it's been since last winter apparently. Only 16-18 for the rest of the week and we're expecting some welcome rain too.

Julie

xx

[dusk]

CJ22 - are you considering OZ?

I think just comparing OZ to NZ is difficult, you need to be very specific about particular areas, (ie Melbourne to Christchurch, Adelaide to Wellington)in order to assess whether one area offers better lifestyle/job/future prospects.

Even better compare suburbs as cities like Auckland and Sydney are big and can have a very different feel depending on which suburb you live in.

Cheers

Tia
No we're not ;)

i think what Cj was asking was if the comments on the article were fairly representative or just a small disgruntled group...

[CJ22]

I was more interested in what the comment said about NZ to be honest, and whether residents felt it was fair comment. We're coming to NZ without ever having visited, so I'm trying to get a feel for what the place i really like.

[Ojai]

I was more interested in what the comment said about NZ to be honest, and whether residents felt it was fair comment. We're coming to NZ without ever having visited, so I'm trying to get a feel for what the place i really like.

No one I have met here has ever mentioned moving to Australia. That includes all my co workers and neighbours. I think like with everything else, where you are and who you know will affect your experience.

[Potato]

I was more interested in what the comment said about NZ to be honest, and whether residents felt it was fair comment. We're coming to NZ without ever having visited, so I'm trying to get a feel for what the place i really like.

In the comments section of that article, I don't think you're getting a very balanced view of NZ from those who choose to contribute.
Many of those who comment there are roughly equivalent to the sort of people who write outraged letters to the Daily Mail (usually about how the country's going to the dogs) ;)

[zardell]

In the comments section of that article, I don't think you're getting a very balanced view of NZ from those who choose to contribute.
Many of those who comment there are roughly equivalent to the sort of people who write outraged letters to the Daily Mail (usually about how the country's going to the dogs) ;)


Exactly right.

Julie

xx

[CJ22]

Heheh fair point. I wouldn't take the Daily Mail readers worldview at face value under any circumstances :)

[dusk]

tee hee :)

[Potato]

Also worth noting that today Kaikoura got warmer than Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Hobart, Adelaide, Canberra and Brisbane.

[incredible hulse]

Think I've worked out why so many kiwis are in Oz. They go on holiday and can't afford the return trip !
Went into flight centre today to enquire about a quick trip across the ditch. Seeing one of these deals on in Sept, thought a nice relaxing week in a 1 bed apartment on the Sunshine coast would be nice way to escape windy welly in one of it's grimest months. Had the shock of my life when the cheapest place (1 bed apartment, 3*, 2 adults and 2 kids) was coming out a 3200 dollars. Almost fainted when was told this didn't even include transfers. Sorry that's just extortionate for a 3 hour flight when the average salary is around 45k nzd

[zardell]

Think I've worked out why so many kiwis are in Oz. They go on holiday and can't afford the return trip !




Scandalous isn't it.

Wouldn't you think that they would have something like the UK's Jet2.com and sell off the remaining empty seats cheap.

We did alright last Sept though. We got return flights to Melbourne from Auckland through Emirates for less than $400 each.

Julie

xx