New Zealand - what to put in a baby medicine cabinet ?

Tia Maria

10th May 2008, 10:15 PM

For the kids paracetamol products (Pamol etc), just check the paracetamol percentage, the lower ones will be suitable for babies (and will say so!).

Once they hit 3 months I prefer Nurofen, (once again get the baby dosage). This is an ibuprofen product (so like aspirin) and I've found doctors over here aren't keen whereas doctors in the UK really promoted it.

www.nurofenforchildren.co.uk/range/

Baby syringe to give meds with - lot easier than using a spoon, (nurofen comes with one)

Agree about the thermometer, we had a dummy shaped one and a digital one you could use under the arm. Some people invest in an ear one but they are pricey, (the forehead ones are OK, but will only give you an approximation).

Baby Nail clippers (If they scratch themselves a lot, I've found baby socks stay on their hands better than scratch mittens)

Ask for some kind of baby antiseptic, in case they get mozzie bites.

Couple of types of nappy cream/powder so you can see which works best.

Cotton wool wipes (flat round things, easier than balls), good for cleaning round their eyes if a bit gunky. Cotton buds.

Nose syringe - for sucking out mucus (lovely eh?). Some kind of eucalyptus that can be dropped onto a hankie if baby gets stuffed up. (Never put too near or in contact with skin)

You will need bonjela at some point (check age....)

Baby first aid book - look up baby resus, a bit scary I know but better to have some idea than not.

Chances are the first time you'll need to use any meds is when they have their immunisations. But you'll probably make use of the rest before the first year is out.

Check what your pharmacist suggests, in fact ask a couple as I have found their advice widely differs here!

Cheers

Tia

Familyofmonkeys

10th May 2008, 11:35 PM

For our lot we just have a well stocked normal first aid kit (plasters/bandages/antiseptic/painkillers/rehydration sachets etc) with a few additions:

Pamol liquid paracetamol
Liquid ibuprofen
Bongella
Ear thermometer and plenty of spare lens dics things (most acurate for small children)
Baby/children liquid antihistamine in case of insect bites etc
Nose syringe....very useful indeed when they have cold (and they will)

Also, sun lotion goes off so don't stock up in advance...buy it when you need it. Johnson&Johnson do a baby suncream, but check no irritation on small area of skin before applying. Also as Sophia said, small babies shouldn't have too much strong sun exposure...they will get enough for their vitamin D needs in only a few minutes so best keep them out of strong sunlight by covering up.....have you bought some baby hats?

peebles16

11th May 2008, 12:31 AM

Pip we've got loads of medicine syringe thingies if you need them. I'd second the sudocream or NZ alternative as works a treat. The other thing we used a lot with our kids as they were snuffly babies was some olbas oil (sp??) diluted in water in a bowl in bedrooms - just helped them breathe a wee bit better :)

Karenx

Jo Jo

11th May 2008, 01:43 AM

Aspirin should NEVER give to young children till they are 12 years old.

or even older - the advice in the UK now is not to give aspirin to children under 16 (except for very specific conditions), and in the US to children under 19. This is because there is a strong link between giving aspirin for viral infections and the development of Reyes Syndrome, which is a rare, but potentially fatal, illness. One of my friends died of it when she was 11 years and 6 months old (and it was her parents who campaigned to get junior aspirin banned in the UK).

migratory birds

11th May 2008, 05:46 AM

Here are some general recommendations I make to my patients who inquire about what to have on hand:

- A good homeopathy acute care book

- Homeopathic kit with remedies (30C potency)

- A great tasting, kid-friendly herbal combination for stimulating the immune system

- Probiotics/acidophilus (esp if antibiotics are given during pregnancy or labour or in infancy)

- Tasty fish oils (for older than 6 mos) for brain/nervous system development

- An emulsified vitamin D3 drop for immune support/bone growth

- Skip the fever reducers as fever is GREAT medicine, as hard as it is to see our kids laid up with one. The body spikes a temp for a reason and is not a symptom that needs to be resolved.

Temps below 39.4 (103) promote reproduction of bacteria and viruses; while temps above prevent iron from binding to bacteria/inhibits reproduction. I've seen many cases of chronic infections (i.e. ear infections or eczema) and even behavioural disorders RESOLVE once the kid has a good fever that isn't supressed.

The following herb combination is great for reducing fever if it gets into the 40 (104) range:
Peppermint leaf
Linden flowers
Elder Flowers
Catnip/nepeta
Yarrow flowers
Make a tea or compress to swab the child down with - works every time to bring fever down if it gets into that very high range.

- Find a good paediatric homeopath, herbalist and acupuncturist who can treat based on symptoms and you'll be set. The recommendations I make for my paediatric patients is always based on how they're presenting (mood, stooling, appetite, symptom expression, etc.)

(From a practising naturopathic physician, homeopath, and soon-to-be practising again, midwife)

Kerry and David

11th May 2008, 07:48 AM

I used Johnson sun tan cream on my son when he was small which was suitable from birth - even though he didn't go in the sun I still smothered him in it in the summer weather.

He cant have nurofen because of his Asthma.

I use a baby vicks to rub on his chest when he has a bad cold and some Obas oli for his pillow (suitable from 3 months.
When he was teething I used Boots herbal crystals which you rub on the gums (May have an NZ alternative?)

I used to do baby massage too with some oils which I picked up at ante - natal class.

K x

nippa&pippa

11th May 2008, 09:22 AM

Pip, I just remember while I was slept last night :o

In NZ, they give 1st jabs early at 6 weeks old (UK given later) and whilst I was at Dr for his first jab, a nurse asked if I have got paracemtol ready for baby. I told her I was just about to get some afterward and she brought out a prescription for paracemtol syrup. This cost me just around $1 at chemist :clap so suggest to wait your baby have jab and get paracemtol from Dr at lowest price. Plus I have found since then that Dr's paracemtol syrup is more effective than OTC's (over the counter's)

Reasons why my medication cabient just contain paracetmol syrup and thermoscan is I don't want to overexposed children to many medications plus there is some allergies in family history to few like aspirin, nurofen and pencillin.
I use adult's nail clipper on children without any problem.
Found cotton wool roll better than cotton pad/balls. So it is case of you try few till you found best ones that suit you.
Suncream - I use low-irrantant sunsenses, ideal for baby and children with sensitive skins including ezcema.

jubjub

11th May 2008, 09:40 AM

A list of whats in mine...

Pamol (from the docs) free on presciption
Fenpaed (same as baby nurofen) again free on prescription
Phenergan (antihistamine) this was for allergy rash in our case, prescription only (when babies anyway)
Dimetapp (wonderful for colds) only available on prescription for under 2's
Themometer, invest in a good one, thermoscan or the like as the others have said... I got a cheapy and its a PITA!
Syringes for getting medicine into small mouths, cant live without mine, even now!
Bonjela, you can get teething powders here, think its Weleda, although I have never used them...

I really would not worry too much to start with, if baby does get sick, then anything you need and that is safe to be given to your baby in the way of medication will be prescribed to you by your docs and most of it will be free, think I have only ever paid for a couple of AJ prescriptions as they were non subsidised medicines.

Pip

11th May 2008, 01:32 PM

Thanks all - thats fantastic and really helpful responses. Already have a sunshade for the stroller (although need one for the car) and a decent thermometer, nappy rash cream and cotton wool. I actually did a baby CPR class in Rangiora this week, which was really good and went through how to perform baby CPR, deal with choking and febrile (?) convulsions. Just hope I can remember it, if the time ever comes.

sounds like i should invest in a syringe though and hopefully a prescription for paracetamol after he has his first set of jabs. I also like the idea of exploring homeopathic remidies as I'm a great believer in building up immune systems rather than getting out the medicine at every opportunity.

I'm also off to the UK in mid july (I know...crazy, flying alone around the world with a seven week baby), so am keen to be as prepared as poss! - I guess it also gives me an excuse to pick up anything in the uk that its more tricky to get here (looks like you can get Galt rings here after a quick web search).

- will get OH to print this thread for me when he's in the office on monday

thank-you so much for all the responses - I suspect it won't be my last 'baby related' question over the next few weeks!

Tia Maria

11th May 2008, 06:30 PM

I know a lot of people are big fans of homeopathic remedies but just a word of caution. Firstly they have not been proven to work, although there is much anecdotal evidence. Also they are not regulated in the same way as traditional medicines, which means they haven't been put to the same stringent tests.

Recently quite a few Health Shops were 'raided' in Auckland and many products were confiscated, so it seems that there can be quite a few natural remedy products, considered unsafe by the NZ Gov, currently for sale in NZ.

So just wanted to make you aware, that although someone else's child might be fine with the product, yours might not.

I don't want to start a debate about homeopathy, I'll leave that one to James Randi :D ......

www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozfio_e1Xj0

Cheers

Tia

JandM

11th May 2008, 10:56 PM

I'm not posting to get into a debate either.:D However, in the interests of balance, and not leaving the field open only to the likes of Randi, I give you

http://www.wddty.com/

This is a link to the site What Doctors Don't Tell You, where you can access information gathered on all kinds of treatment for all kinds of conditions. They include comments on allopathic remedies (i.e. most of the drugs doctors prescribe), of which a large proportion have not been proven to work, although there is much anecdotal evidence. No, I'm not just mocking - so many drugs still in use today were part of doctors' armoury before regulation came in that they have never been put to any stringent tests: they were just given blanket approval on the basis that they were acceptable because familiar.

Tia Maria

11th May 2008, 11:48 PM

I agree that one has to be equally informed about prescribed medicines.

I haven't had a chance to fully look at the wddty website, but the person who started it (Lynne McTaggart ), is currently running something called the Intention Experiment:

www.theintentionexperiment.com/the_experiments.htm

In which she tries to show how sending 'intentions' can alter things around the globe:

We’ve also shown that intention can help plants to grow faster. In our latest experiment, we sent intention to barley seeds and showed that our intention caused them to germinate faster and grow taller than three sets of controls.

With future experiments:

Future Intention Experiments

The mini-Gaia project.
An ecosphere with an artificially raised temperature – a little like global warming. Can we lower the temperature with our thoughts?

The Germination Intention Experiment.
Can our group intention help barley seeds to germinate early and grow more healthily?

The Water Experiment.
Can we change the pH of polluted water?

How humans ‘feel’ intention.
Does a person sent intention by thousands around the world ‘feel’ it in different parts of the body?

The Crime Rate Experiment.
Can intention lower the crime rate of a major city?

The Hospital Study.
Can we lower mortality at a hospital?

The Attention Deficit Study.
Can we help children to concentrate more?

But no debate going on here honest......:uhoh :p

Cheers

Tia

JandM

12th May 2008, 01:04 AM

One project: What Doctors Don't Tell You.

Another project: The Intention Experiment.

...

Here's a story. One of a woman's children has been having a really hard time getting to grips with things at school. Then he goes into Mrs Blenkinsop's class. She's very experienced, he likes her a lot, and the way she does things really suits him - suddenly, he's asking to bring friends home to play, his spelling improves, he gets the junior numeracy prize, he starts taking an interest in nature conservation as a result of class trip. Everything's lovely. The woman tells a friend how pleased she is with what Mrs B has done for her boy.

And the friend says, 'What, You're grateful to Mrs Blenkinsop? But she goes morris dancing (or votes the opposite way, or breeds racing pigeons, or takes part in any other activity the woman wouldn't touch)!'

'Mrs Blenkinsop, a morris dancer/XYZ party voter/pigeon fancier/fill your own blank? She's never mentioned that to the children,' exclaims the woman. 'I'll get the head to move my son out of her class at once!'

Reasonable? Unreasonable?

dilanium

12th May 2008, 01:16 AM

Reasonable? Unreasonable?

I see your point, but it seems we hold people in science and medicine to a higher standard, as if someone were to publish a fancy scientific paper, and then get involved with a public project in which they intend to prove that leprechauns eat your toenails at night (intentionally bad example) the validity of the scientific paper would undoubtedly come into question.

Personally I think people should do their research on both homeopathic and traditional medicine. There's validity and tomfoolery in both.

JandM

12th May 2008, 01:58 AM

Personally I think people should do their research on both homeopathic and traditional medicine. There's validity and tomfoolery in both.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. I don't like to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater. The WDDTY site I recommended points out good research in both areas (as well as being scornful about obviously flawed practices, such as any study funded by X drug company which reports that X drug company's latest product gives miracle cures), so it would be a shame to disregard it on irrelevant grounds.

As to the subject matter of the other project Lynne McTaggart is involved in - HOW many millions of dollars did the Pentagon invest in research in this area? It doesn't seem as if they think it's stupid to ask the questions.

dilanium

12th May 2008, 03:16 AM

I agree. Unfortunately, it just seems to be the nature of the scientific/medical communities.

Tia Maria

12th May 2008, 10:31 AM

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. I don't like to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater. The WDDTY site I recommended points out good research in both areas (as well as being scornful about obviously flawed practices, such as any study funded by X drug company which reports that X drug company's latest product gives miracle cures), so it would be a shame to disregard it on irrelevant grounds.

As to the subject matter of the other project Lynne McTaggart is involved in - HOW many millions of dollars did the Pentagon invest in research in this area? It doesn't seem as if they think it's stupid to ask the questions.

I agree I hadn't had an indepth look at WDDTY site, but I just had alarm bells ringing that it was started by someone, who to me, appears to practice pseudo-scientific techniques. I certainly don't think its irrelevant, as Lynne McTaggart isn't merely involved in both projects but is the founder of both and, therefore, I think its reasonable to assume her philosophy and research methods influence both.

Its probably the 'historian' part of me that will always try to research the author and the credibility of the sources used, before I form an opinion from any written article.

It may be that the WDDTY site has evolved from being a Lynne McTaggart project and has contributors who are more credible. I would have certainly thought there were a lot of easy targets in modern medicine, especially as, like the world of homeopathy, it makes big bucks for some people.

I am personally equally as skeptical of modern medical, if only on the level that we still have so many unexplained areas about the human body and, whereas it may sometimes feel like the human race has all the answers, we are probably only in the infancy of our understanding on many issues.

I think in the context of the original posters question, I simply wanted to urge caution when it came to using untested natural remedies on babies, compared to using pharmacist approved baby medicines which have been rigorously tested and have all relevant warnings and side effects noted.

Cheers

Tia

JandM

12th May 2008, 11:13 AM

I can see from what you say here that you know my hackles rose a little, although I realize that you had good intentions towards the OP and I have great respect for your many helpful postings elsewhere. I felt I should protest at a sweeping dismissal of homeopathy, though, and imagine the midwife/homeopath who stated her credentials above, and was also trying to help, might feel a bit bruised.

Please don't think you're the only academic/writer/researcher around who knows about asking basic questions like the source of information: I wouldn't dream of recommending something unchecked. Assumption and appearance can be deceptive. In the case of WDDTY, I've been receiving their email updates for years, and have had cause to be grateful for myself and my family for several suggestions from recent research which, leaving aside any personal experience, our GP has later investigated and confirmed as useful. So I'll leave the information there for people to take or leave as they wish.

Debbie

12th May 2008, 11:22 AM

I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of different medical options, (that's for the individual to decides) but to go back to Pips original post....

My midwife suggested that even though I was sure I was going to breast feed it was well worth buying 4 small boxes of pre-made milk and a 9oz bottle. Her argument was you never know what will happen and the last thing you need is a hungry baby at 4am adding to your stress that you can't feed it. It doesn't cost a fortune and in an emergency you would sterilse the old fashioned way in a pan of boiling water.
Other than that my list would be
some form of pain /temp meds that you are happy with for baby
What ever the NZ version of infacol is (wind medicine)
2 thermomitors (sp) I got an in the ear one but my kids had ear infections and wouldn't let me near them. Tia's dummy one sound great though.
A warm/ cold gell pack. They last forever and great for low temps and bumps and bruses.
More muslins than you can believe possible. I swaddled with them, used them as sun shades, as top sheets at the head end of the cot to catch the endless posset.......
2 dummys of different shapes, new born babies are surprisingly fussy about that they like when it comes to dummys. Even if you don't plan to use them , for the couple of dollars they might just save your sanity one night.
At some point you will need teething stuff but not for a while yet.
Telephone number of your Dr, out of hours and a good neighbour on your fridge.

HTH Debbies

Tia Maria

12th May 2008, 11:43 AM

JandM - I think on principle we agree, 'just because its natural, doesn't mean its best', 'just because a doctor says so, it doesn't mean its true'. We just differ on who we get our information from.

My mind is open on Homeopathy, but I do feel the burden of proof is on those who market it, to prove that it offers more than a placebo effect, (the same has been put into question recently about some anti-depressants, and once again I feel the burden of proof is on those that manufacture it).

If someone can produce some genuinely scientific studies to show that homeopathy works I would happily read them. I just find the concept of dilution hard to understand especially when it is the equivalent of as little as one drop of active ingredient in a sea of water. I also find it difficult to understand why the big homeopathic companies have failed to produce any consistent studies to show that their products work.

Of course if it is the placebo effect in action and it works for people, without side effects, then its is a valid treatment. :nice1

There are many natural products being sold which do have consistent scientific studies to back them up, where their effects can be replicated again and again in a lab, so I don't think its unreasonable to ask why Homeopathy can't?

Cheers

Tia

Georgebulldog

12th May 2008, 12:45 PM

What ever the NZ version of infacol is (wind medicine)
HTH Debbies

I've seen Infacol in Woolworths & it was a lifesaver with my daughter who cried from 7PM to 1PM everynight until we also changed her milk as well as use Infacol, went through tons of the stuff if I remember so I think I'll be getting stocked up now, thanks for the reminder :exit

nippa&pippa

12th May 2008, 01:38 PM

I've seen Infacol in Woolworths & it was a lifesaver with my daughter who cried from 7PM to 1PM everynight until we also changed her milk as well as use Infacol, went through tons of the stuff if I remember so I think I'll be getting stocked up now, thanks for the reminder :exit

You may not need to. My first child was nightmare colic baby, was up most of nights :uhoh and my next two didn't have colic but they had reflux problems instead (related to milk intolence for 2nd child and milk allergy for 3rd child) :roll

Georgebulldog

12th May 2008, 02:03 PM

Fingers crossed then :D

JandM

12th May 2008, 10:04 PM

JandM - I think on principle we agree, 'just because its natural, doesn't mean its best', 'just because a doctor says so, it doesn't mean its true'. We just differ on who we get our information from.

I go along with that.:nice1

It's where we get into the realm of 'proof' that we differ. You are taking a stand on the scientific method as the ONLY one that will do, whereas I feel that the world is wider than scientists can yet account for. Mainstream science attempts to constrain events into things which they can provoke at will, to measure and control, and replicate: this stance, when dealing with hugely complex living beings, which we KNOW from common sense vary in their physical and mental capabilities, from one another, and even within one self over time and under the influence of emotion and mood, is like obstinately persisting in trying to transport water in a seive (and then blaming the river).

Even with a conventional drug, conventionally tested, stamped and approved, you can be the odd one out for whom it doesn't give the intended effect, or indeed, produces a reaction never seen before - because you're an individual, and your own system doesn't care about the hundreds of thousands of successfully medicated people in the research project, but insists on sprouting its unique spots anyway. And this is an open secret: when your GP sees what has happened, he won't be amazed, but will simply say, 'Oh, well, let's look for a different one that will suit you better.' Although functioning under the umbrella of science with its one-size-ought-to-fit-all philosophy, the front-line practitioners KNOW that you can't stand back from someone suffering and tell them they're better because that's what it said on the label, but instead, have to keep trying till you find whatever it takes for THIS person to be helped.

When looking at many alternative therapies, a large problem for conventional science is that they don't have the theories to fit. In the western world, the tendency has been, therefore, to close up and deny the effect, rather than accept that they don't understand. In the east (and elsewhere outside the scientific community), people have instead worked with what was happening in themselves and those under their care, even when they couldn't see WHY it was happening, and so bodies of method have been developed which are known, but haven't and won't fit into scientific orthodoxy.

Speaking of that orthodoxy, which insists among other things on replicability between individuals - in ordinary life, we would immediately KNOW it doesn't make sense. Imagine saying these remarks. 'I like the taste of spinach, so you do, too.' 'Your sister is a concert pianist, so you play tonight now she's got flu.' 'My boss loves growing orchids, and yours is the same age, so I've brought some for him.'

When invoking the placebo effect, it may interest you (or not, of course!) to go looking for accounts of cases where homeopathy, and other treatments outside the western convention, have been successfully used on animals.

migratory birds

13th May 2008, 09:30 AM

I don't know how to multi-quote on this form, but objections to homeopathy/acupuncture/medicinal herbs are parr for the course when one moves into the field of providing care that addresses the underlying causes of people's symptoms/diseases rather than offering pharmacuetical options that only treat the symptoms but are rarely, if ever, truly CURATIVE. So I wasn't surprised to see a warning sent out to parents who may be considering homeopathy.

I know a lot of people are big fans of homeopathic remedies but just a word of caution. Firstly they have not been proven to work...Tia

There is ample evidence based on research (for those who need that kind of information) and is available for the seeking. Evidence in support of nutrient therapies and medicinal herbs abounds in conventional medical journals (i.e. JAMA, Lancet, New England Journal of Medicine, as well as every specialty journal out there) and homeopathy research exists in abundance as well...

Yet, even MDs, not just the layperson who never touches these kinds of research-based, peer-reviewed journals, continue to send out resounding messages that herbs, homeopathy, nutrient therapies have not been proven therefore must be avoided at all costs.

It's right there under their noses if they would only open their eyes.

I, for one, would rather work with my body to aide cure and resolution of symptoms than accept the conventional medical approach hook, line and sinker and thoughtlessly drop pharmaceuticals into it with their tremendous potential for terrible, and sometimes permanantly injurious, side effects.

BTW, most of the 'research' done on the drugs many are so trusting of is funded by the manufacturers of the drug who can only profit enormously from their sales worldwide. If Bristol-Myers is preparing to put a new drug on the market and is paying 'researchers' to evaluate the product, guess what the outcomes will be? Who might they favour? The consumer? The child? No, the pockets of drug-company CEOs.

I have seen too many cases of children's and animals symptoms resolve within MINUTES with the correct homeopathic remedy to say that it is placebo effect. Adults are inclined to filter their own improvement thru the eyes of a skeptic but children and animals cannot do that.

I offered the kit suggestions only for those looking outside the conventional medicine cabinet for other therapies that don't dampen the body's ability to heal itself. Not for everyone but it is for some! For those, I offer effective alternatives.

migratory birds

13th May 2008, 09:39 AM

...Recently quite a few Health Shops were 'raided' in Auckland and many products were confiscated, so it seems that there can be quite a few natural remedy products, considered unsafe by the NZ Gov, currently for sale in NZ...Tia

Tia,

I'd like a link to this raid, if you can come up with one. I'd like to see what was confiscated.

There ARE herbs or homeopathics of certain potencies that are not to be used by the layperson and SHOULDN'T be sold over-the-counter. That's why I said it was important to have a professional herbalist/homeopath working with you so that the layperson isn't overdoing it or consuming something they have no need for.

There ARE problems with mislabelling of some of these products (mostly in that some don't contain what they claim to contain)

But for those of us professionals in the field, we know who to source our natural product formulations from (the companies who are testing raw material and finished product and not selling what doesn't meet the bar) and we have the years of training in this specialty field that enables us to provide safe care for those looking for an alternative to giving their kids drugs that have greater potential for harm.

migratory birds

13th May 2008, 10:07 AM

Sorry, Tia, you're giving me plenty to quote you on!

...I simply wanted to urge caution when it came to using untested natural remedies on babies, compared to using pharmacist approved baby medicines which have been rigorously tested and have all relevant warnings and side effects noted...Tia

Even pharmacist-approved drugs have the potential to seriously injure young children though and need to be pulled from the shelves after they've been on the market for awhile.

Phenylpropanolamine was/is the active ingredient in these US-recalled children's cough supressing medicines (for those who want to check to see what the UK/NZ equivalents are).

Some vaccines are recalled after having been "approved" but later, in widespread practise, are showing to have some unexpected adverse health effects (i.e. oral polio vaccine causing polio in close contacts of the children gvien the live vaccine and, I believe, the rotavirus vaccine used 10-15 years ago caused intussuception of the intestines of the children it was designed to protect; and a recent case with sufficient evidence of a vaccine (MMR?) contributing to the development of autism in an American girl).

Mercury, used as a preservative in vaccines, once "approved" for use in children is no longer used in paediatric vaccines (at least in the US) because of concerns for mercury exceding safe recommended levels in infancy if the child is fully vaccinated.

http://www.bcbs.com/news/national/cold-medicines-for-infants-pulled-amid-safety-concerns.html

"The withdrawn drugs involve "infant" formulations of cold and cough medications sold under the Dimetapp, Little Colds, PediaCare, Robitussin, Triaminic and Tylenol labels.

The withdrawal came a week before a committee of the Food and Drug Administration was set to review the safety and effectiveness of cold and cough medicine in children. A recent FDA report found that the agency had received 54 reports of deaths associated with decongestants and 69 deaths linked to antihistamines from 1969 to 2006 in children, most younger than 2.

...A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report this year found that 1,500 children had been treated in U.S. emergency rooms in 2004 and 2005 for "adverse effects" linked to the medications, and three babies died.

In August, the FDA issued an advisory that "reports of serious adverse events associated with the use of these products appear to be the result of giving too much of these medicines to children." The agency also advised parents against using the drugs in children under age 2 unless directed to do so by a physician."

Well, guess what, this stuff was sold without a prescription, parents were desparate for their children, including those under 2, to stop coughing and continued to give the medicine anyway in the midst of warnings about doing so. The FDA, our drug regulating agency in the US, finally asked druggists to pull it off their shelves because parents weren't going to stop buying it.

Andy-Dee

13th May 2008, 11:26 AM

Don't want to get into the why's and wherefores but my daughters Godmother is a homeopath and has really helped me out with MINOR childhood complaints such as:

small patches of exma (cant spell it) - Bach Flower Rescue Remedy - very successful, my friend predicted that if you go to the Doc's they will keep giving you stronger cream until you're on steroids at which point the exma dissapears and re surfaces as asthma. This happened with 3 other children we know - exactly as she said.
Moloscum (cant spell that either) - small suphur tablets to clear the blood, lasted 5 months as opposed to 12 - 18 with other children.
Teething - Boots teething granuals which are Camilla based, we sailed through teething as kids love it and you're not chasing Bonjela round the babies mouth whilst it wriggles for all its worth
Colds etc - junior echanachia (you know I cant spell by now), couple of drops in warm milk seems to fend off all but the most persistent of colds.

On the other hand - she's had her MMR jab and other medically based jabs and check ups.

Top tip - buy a dozen old fashioned nappies, they serve a multitude of purposes including the obvious.

Good luck

nippa&pippa

13th May 2008, 11:48 AM

small patches of exma (cant spell it) - Bach Flower Rescue Remedy - very successful, my friend predicted that if you go to the Doc's they will keep giving you stronger cream until you're on steroids at which point the exma dissapears and re surfaces as asthma. This happened with 3 other children we know - exactly as she said.

On the other hand - she's had her MMR jab and other medically based jabs and check ups.

This show that you are open-minded with allow child to jabs but willing to try hompathy as well as normal medication :nice1

I like to try these option for ezcema for my DD as losing battle with creams/steriods to controlling her ezcema at moment, do you know the minimum age they can start try?

Georgebulldog

13th May 2008, 12:19 PM

I aggree with what you say Andy-Dee, trying something different but still having all the norm vacinations but have to dissagree with the eczema leading to asthma because of steriods, I have had eczema since a child & have used steroid creams all my life but I don't have asthma so not always the case, they run side by side as far as I'm aware, you are more prone to asthma if you get eczema or the other way, not sure
I have been told by a firned who has tried, although I haven't as yet that Manuka Honey is good for eczema, I would try anything other than steriods if I thought it would work as good

Georgebulldog

13th May 2008, 12:29 PM

I know it's not medicine but for your car for bright sunny days these are really good, we had some for our Volvo V70 (up for sale if anyone has this car here) & I will be getting some for my new car now I have one I'm going to keep, you can have the window down & still keep out the flys & they block the sun, great for summer

http://www.windowsox.co.nz/home.html

Just to let anyone know who wanted to get these, I emailed to find out how to buy a pair & they are $59.95 inc delivery, they realy are worth every cent as you don't have to take them off to wind the window down, they just e mailed back asking what car I have so hoping to order today :raebanana

Tia Maria

13th May 2008, 01:13 PM

Migratory Birds, I appreciate your long and thoughtful reply! :)

I'll start by saying I do not link Homeopathy with acupuncture or herbal remedies. There are many complementary remedies which are effective, I do not have a problem with them. It is Homeopathy in particular that I do have a problem with.

Yes, I do believe that anything claiming health benefits should be able to substantiate its claims, to show that it was in fact that product that cured the illness and not placebo, time or your own bodies defences. The reason I believe this is important is because people might use such homeopathic remedies instead and delay using an effective treatment instead.

As you yourself have seen its benefits perhaps you could explain to me why these have never been replicated in a double blind trial?

No - I do not believe that there are any studies in journals such as The Lancet that show that Homeopathy has anything beyond a placebo effect. But if you can point me in the direction of one then I will happily read it......

Here's a Wikipedia link for a very comprehensive description of how homeopathy was developed, how much active ingredient is involved etc etc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Obviously being Wikipedia you will have to make up your own minds on its neutrality, but I thought it gave a good beginners guide and history of the subject.

I found it interesting that they use Oscillococcinum (extract of goose liver) to cure flu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum

and Natrum muriaticum (diluted salt), used to cure:

Alcohol withdrawal support, Backache, Cataracts, Common cold, Conjunctivitis, Oedema, Eye strain, Hay fever, Herpes simplex, High blood pressure, Menopause symptoms, Menstrual problems and PMS, Migraine, Mouth ulcers, Photosensitivity, Postpartum depression, Rashes, Yeast infections

(from: www.ethicalvitamins.co.uk/healthnotes/healthnotes.asp?org=boots&ContentID=2349003 )

With Homeopathy being such big business now it certainly has the financial ability to once and for all silence its critics and show that it can work, if it does work, it should be able to show this in a neutral clinical trial (not run by The Homeopath Association obviously!)- I just can't understand why, if so many people say it work, they still haven't managed this.

Why is it close minded or unreasonable to ask for data backing up Homeopathic claims?

I don't have a link, it was an article in the North Shore Times, which was sympathetic towards the Health Shop owner, as it was saying that, whichever government agency is responsible for such things, is inconsistent in enforcing its drug laws. Therefore products which he had been allowed to sell before but had been confiscated and he had lost a lot of money. It turns out these products had always been banned but that many shops were not aware of what was OK and what was not. It was essentially a critic of inconsistent regulation and enforcement in the Natural Health world.

I want to end by saying I do agree with you about the many problems with modern medicine. But at least once the problems are discovered they are pulled from the shelves. i also don't understand why people who so vigorously research the dangers and effectiveness of modern medicine do not do the same for Homeopathy. With Homeopathy they are happy to say, 'well I've seen it work, or my mate has'. Imagine if we allowed modern medicine the same leeway?!

Luckily the huge dilutions in Homeopathic treatments probably mean they have very little likelihood of side effects, although I'm unsure how they are regulated - as a medicine, vitamin, food? So its main problem, apart from parting people from their money, is that it could delay people from seeking help earlier.

I appreciate the stance I hold is not popular, and judging from the replies so far, I am maybe unusual in my skepticism but I think if Homeopathy says it can cure can something, it should be able to prove it.

I suspect, unless we want to start another thread - or have this bit split off, this is slightly OT, and we might have to agree to disagree on this one!

Cheers

Tia

PS JandM - Is this the Cow study?

www.cababstractsplus.org/google/abstract.asp?AcNo=20043211488

Evidence of efficacy of homeopathic treatment beyond placebo was not found in this study,

nippa&pippa

13th May 2008, 04:04 PM

Just to let anyone know who wanted to get these, I emailed to find out how to buy a pair & they are $59.95 inc delivery, they realy are worth every cent as you don't have to take them off to wind the window down, they just e mailed back asking what car I have so hoping to order today :raebanana

You can buy them from Repco :nice1

calixfornia

13th May 2008, 04:07 PM

I can't help but chime in, since this post has a lot of action I've been seeing it on the list often, and every time I think it reads "where to put a baby in a medicine cabinet" or something to that effect :P
<end hijack>

nippa&pippa

13th May 2008, 04:11 PM

have to dissagree with the eczema leading to asthma because of steriods, I have had eczema since a child & have used steroid creams all my life but I don't have asthma so not always the case, they run side by side as far as I'm aware, you are more prone to asthma if you get eczema or the other way

Agree, I never heard of it too. It's usually run together as asthma, ezcema and allergies is same family group, so if you got one of them, there is risk of you get another one from this group. My family and my OH's family is badly affected by one, two or all three in that group. Also there is strong % of child get one if one of parents got one of these group, higher if both of parents got it.

Tia Maria

13th May 2008, 04:12 PM

Familyofmonkeys

13th May 2008, 05:18 PM

Agree, I never heard of it too. It's usually run together as asthma, ezcema and allergies is same family group, so if you got one of them, there is risk of you get another one from this group. My family and my OH's family is badly affected by one, two or all three in that group. Also there is strong % of child get one if one of parents got one of these group, higher if both of parents got it.

Absolutely...and the other thing is that the onset age for different allergic conditions varies. Ezcema often appears first as a baby. Asthma and hayfever are not usually diagnosed in very young infants and usually becomes aparent when children get nearer to school age....and this pattern can also be seen for children who have never had eczema. All adult members of my immediate family on both my dad and mum's side of family suffer asthma, some also have eczema (but some have never had any, even as an infant) and some have hayfever. All my children have had some ezcema to varying degrees....it is highly likely at least one of them will end up with asthma when they get older and none of them have ever been treated with steroids as so far we have found other ways to keep it under control.

JandM

13th May 2008, 07:07 PM

Is this the Cow study? I didn't mention any Cow study. I said it may interest you (or not, of course!) to go looking for accounts of cases where homeopathy, and other treatments outside the western convention, have been successfully used on animals. Probably migratory birds could give you some links. She's the professional. I'm the one with the problem with regarding the scientific method and its insistence on generality as the one valid belief system.

migratory birds

14th May 2008, 04:14 AM

..every time I think it reads "where to put a baby in a medicine cabinet"...

:laugh :laugh :laugh

That's EXACTLY how my daughter read it when she saw the title of the thread. I responded with "Where ever it fits!"

We had a great laugh!

migratory birds

14th May 2008, 04:22 AM

..perhaps you could explain to me why these have never been replicated in a double blind trial?
-------------------------
...I found it interesting that they use Oscillococcinum (extract of goose liver) to cure flu...
-------------------------
...and Natrum muriaticum (diluted salt), used to cure:

Alcohol withdrawal support, Backache, Cataracts, Common cold, Conjunctivitis, Oedema, Eye strain, Hay fever, Herpes simplex, High blood pressure, Menopause symptoms, Menstrual problems and PMS, Migraine, Mouth ulcers, Photosensitivity, Postpartum depression, Rashes, Yeast infections

(from: www.ethicalvitamins.co.uk/healthnotes/healthnotes.asp?org=boots&ContentID=2349003 )

***Double-blind studies cannot be done with CONSTITUTIONAL prescribing (as described below):

Homeopathic prescribing is not at all the same as allopathic prescribing. With allopathy, one could prescribe the same inhaler for 600 people with exercise-induced asthma. With consitutional homepathy, prescribers look at a constellation of symptoms - not just the asthma with exercise, but also other physical symptoms, mental/emotional symptoms, appetite, elimination, sleep, etc, etc. So no two cases are exactly alike...and all 600 in the homeopathy study DO NOT recieve the same remedy because their cases are worked up as individuals.

***I have NEVER in 12 years of homeopathic prescribing recc'd Oscillococcinum...I think most "combination" remedies are NOT effective (unless the one remedy that fits your constitution at the time of use is in the mix) Through an extensive interview, I ask about all possible flu symptoms - as you know they can vary slightly from one person to the next. What I have prescribed successfully for one person in a family is not always what I prescribed successfully for another person in the family - both having flu symptoms but each having additional symptoms the other does not directs a skilled homeopath in the direction of correct remedy selection.

***The link you provided stating the uses of Nat Mur is one of the problems with marketing of supplements. Yes, Nat Mur can be used for some of the symptoms outlined...but again, that's a VERY allopathic way of looking at homeopathy "If you have X, you must (and everyone with X) must take Y" Again, if a prescriber is prescribing based on the ENTIRE person sitting in front of them and not just the person migraines, she/he may consider Nat Mur if all other symptoms fit or she/he may consider 75 other remedies that have the single symptom of migraine.

AGAIN, work with a highly trained specialist when it comes to homeopathy. Don't get your information from the web or the salesperson at the shop.

Mels

14th May 2008, 04:25 AM

:laugh :laugh :laugh

That's EXACTLY how my daughter read it when she saw the title of the thread. I responded with "Where ever it fits!"

We had a great laugh!

Glad I'm not the only one, each time I read this post 'What to put in a baby medicine cabinet'
I keep thinking - something small :exit

Mels

Tia Maria

14th May 2008, 11:12 PM

migratory birds wrote:

***Double-blind studies cannot be done with CONSTITUTIONAL prescribing (as described below):

I've had a bit of a busy day, but have given this some consideration, would it not be possible to do a double blind study in this way:

Take the 600 people with exercise induced asthma and send them all to a homeopath who will work up personalised remedies for each of them which are then placed in a paper bag with their name on.

An independent overseer then randomly replaces the contents of half the bags with vials of tap water. At the end of the study the two groups can be compared to see if the homeopathic group has improved in health more than the placebo group.

This allows the homeopath to treat the patient as a whole, and to compare the outcome to a placebo group.

I'm sure large companies like Boiron, could easily find the funding, (pretty amazing profits!), and come up with a method more sophisticated than I came up with this evening!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiron

Boiron is a homeopathic pharmaceutical manufacturer, headquartered in France and with an operating presence in 59 countries worldwide. It is the largest manufacturer of homeopathic products in the world, and in 2005, was the second largest manufacturer of over the counter medicine in France. In 2004, it employed a workforce of 2,779 and had a turnover of € 313 million. It is currently a member of the CAC Small 90 stock index.

In June 2005, the firm acquired Dolisos Laboratories, then the world's second largest homeopathic remedy manufacturer.

Products of Boiron include mono (Hahnemanian) remedies and poly (in case of Boiron called Proprietary drugs).

One of its key products is Oscillococcinum, a nosode-type remedy claimed to relieve flu symptoms, and one of the biggest-selling homeopathic flu medicines in the United States

I would have thought a study with the Oscillococcinum product would also be possible. If it claims to alleviate flu symptons shouldn't they have the research to back that up?

Just on general advertising laws, I would expect any claims to be backed up. I wonder if Which? has ever done an article on this ..... it would be interesting to know, where homeopathy stands from a consumer view point.:yes

Migratory Birds wrote:

Through an extensive interview, I ask about all possible flu symptoms - as you know they can vary slightly from one person to the next. What I have prescribed successfully for one person in a family is not always what I prescribed successfully for another person in the family - both having flu symptoms but each having additional symptoms the other does not directs a skilled homeopath in the direction of correct remedy selection.

Wouldn't that be exactly why having homeopathic remedies in a baby's medicine cabinet is unsuitable? If treatment can vary so much depending on symptoms, I would have thought it was always essential to see a Homeopath every time your child was ill, rather than self prescribing. I assume the homeopath would also have the remedies to sell you so, you would only need to get the relevant remedies.

Migratory Birds wrote:

***I have NEVER in 12 years of homeopathic prescribing recc'd Oscillococcinum...I think most "combination" remedies are NOT effective (unless the one remedy that fits your constitution at the time of use is in the mix)

Are there homeopaths who do think they are effective? If so how do you know they are wrong and you are right, or vice versa?

Is the popular Bach's Rescue Remedy a "combination" remedy?

Cheers

Tia

PS By the way I haven't worked out how to multiquote either, mine doesn't seem to work. :confused:

migratory birds

15th May 2008, 01:18 AM

Wouldn't that be exactly why having homeopathic remedies in a baby's medicine cabinet is unsuitable? If treatment can vary so much depending on symptoms, I would have thought it was always essential to see a Homeopath every time your child was ill, rather than self prescribing. I assume the homeopath would also have the remedies to sell you so, you would only need to get the relevant remedies.
-------------------------------
Is the popular Bach's Rescue Remedy a "combination" remedy?

Tia

Bach Flower Remedies are not homeopathics, they're flower essences.

As far as having homeopathics on hand, I have parents call me in the middle of the nite or on weekends, or their kid is so ill they cannot get out to pick up a homeopathic. After a quick consult, often over the phone, unless I need to see them to listen to lungs or look in an ear or throat, they can administer the indicated remedy if it's one they have in their kit.

Sorry, not much time to continue the discussion on the merits and efficacy of homeopathy much longer. For those who use it, often find it works very well for them. For those who are skeptics, they find other ways to address their health!

Cheers!

Sunkissed

15th May 2008, 12:52 PM

Hi,

I've heard that breast-fed babies have the least amount of health issues (especially when the mother is also eating healthy & drinking plenty of water).

I guess the baby's body is able to efficiently and smoothly process breast milk without negatively reacting to it with ear infections, gas, foul-smelling stool, colds, excess mucus, eczema, etc. as they do to the milk made by pharmaceutical and chocolate companies. Breast milk also strengthens their immune systems so that they're not susceptible to common colds & other things.

For babies, your best bet is to contact naturopathic physicians, homeopathic physicians, and herbalists (with a great deal of experience and positive patient reviews) for advise on what should be in your medicine cabinet. I believe a baby's body (actually...any natural body) responds better to natural remedies rather than synthetic remedies.

P.S.

Also, I would suggest watching "The Happiest Baby on the Block" DVD for parents of young babies that cry a lot. It's a life saver. I don't have any children yet, but I know this video (& book) would be a blessing to any parent. The doctor also created "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" I haven't watched/read this one but if you have, please feel free to share your review.

Thanks

Georgebulldog

15th May 2008, 01:21 PM

Hi,

I've heard that breast-fed babies have the least amount of health issues (especially when the mother is also eating healthy & drinking plenty of water).

I guess the baby's body is able to efficiently and smoothly process breast milk without negatively reacting to it with ear infections, gas, foul-smelling stool, colds, excess mucus, eczema, etc. as they do to the milk made by pharmaceutical and chocolate companies. Breast milk also strengthens their immune systems so that they're not susceptible to common colds & other things.

I don't want to start a huge debate on this one as everyone has their view & I realy don't know the facts but I just wanted to add that I didn't breastfeed my daughter & (so far & touch wood) she doesn't have Excema or any other allergies which I have & she has hardly been ill, a few colds if that. So I'm sure there's more room for study on this one & not just breastfed babies but other factors too.
I have found that more woman breastfeed in NZ than the UK, I did try & it didn't work for me & was quickly offered a bottle in hospital rather than try harder which was a shame, I hate the way my midwife, who doesn't mind what I do, calls it artificial feeding :laugh
Anyway just wanted to add that I'm sure a healthy diet comes into it , I did make sure I ate my 5 a day & avoided all the things that your surposed to in pregnancy.
I do think had I have been given the help in the UK I would br breastfeeding number 2 in a few weeks but as I wasn't a bottle it will be

nippa&pippa

15th May 2008, 02:12 PM

Hi,

I've heard that breast-fed babies have the least amount of health issues (especially when the mother is also eating healthy & drinking plenty of water).

I guess the baby's body is able to efficiently and smoothly process breast milk without negatively reacting to it with ear infections, gas, foul-smelling stool, colds, excess mucus, eczema, etc. as they do to the milk made by pharmaceutical and chocolate companies. Breast milk also strengthens their immune systems so that they're not susceptible to common colds & other things.

It is depend on family history whether your child will get allergies, ezcema and asthma. Maybe help to some children who is breastfed who lucky to avoid developing these group. But doesn't work with my children who have been breastfed till they were 12months and my youngest (8months old) is still breastfed at moment and all of them got allergies, ezcema and one of them got query asthma.
But I agree with immune systems as while they were breastfed, they rarely get ill until they have stopped. And they have found feeding very comfort after had jabs or during teething...(still not brought teething gel yet)
For foul-smelling stool, gas etc, can be formula milk or can be intolence/allergy via bottles or breastfeeding, so be careful there, always seek advice if you not sure....
Despite my youngest's allergy to milk mean I have to avoid milk in my diet as I rather to stick to breastfeeding rather than switch to bottles (much to allergy specialist's surprise!!:D ).

Familyofmonkeys

15th May 2008, 03:13 PM

It is depend on family history whether your child will get allergies, ezcema and asthma. Maybe help to some children who is breastfed who lucky to avoid developing these group. But doesn't work with my children who have been breastfed till they were 12months and my youngest (8months old) is still breastfed at moment and all of them got allergies, ezcema and one of them got query asthma.
But I agree with immune systems as while they were breastfed, they rarely get ill until they have stopped. And they have found feeding very comfort after had jabs or during teething...(still not brought teething gel yet)
For foul-smelling stool, gas etc, can be formula milk or can be intolence/allergy via bottles or breastfeeding, so be careful there, always seek advice if you not sure....
Despite my youngest's allergy to milk mean I have to avoid milk in my diet as I rather to stick to breastfeeding rather than switch to bottles (much to allergy specialist's surprise!!:D ).

Yep...breastfeeding only lowers the risk, it doesn't mean you won't get allergy problems. All my kids were breastfed for over a year. My kdis have all had ezcema and oldest got terrible eczema on her neck and back when she was exclusively bf for no apparent reason. My second child had terrible reflux and I had to cut out orange juice, citrus and onion from my diet completely as it made it much worse.

As far as immune system is concerned, in my own experience the kids still picked up all the usual bugs etc from playgroups but now they are older they are rarely ill. When they have had nasty stomach bugs it is still OK to breastfeed with upset stomach, as opposed to boiled water only for couple of days as with formula feeding. I'm feel certain that has helped them recover very quickly from alot of childhood bugs.