[Tia Maria]

As we got up to the $90k per annum (before tax for whole household), most of the singles and couples felt they could live comfortably in NZ on this wage.

However for the family we still have (currently):

Happily: 18
Struggle but worth it: 7
Struggle but not worth it: 4

So I thought i'd go up another $20k to see when it gets comfortable for more families. So could you live comfortably on a wage of $110K in NZ. Please only vote if in NZ, (or have lived in NZ) and have experienced what it is like to live here as deciding whether you are comfortable is more than just a numbers game.

Please all still vote whether single/couple/family etc - just so we can compare.

If you haven't already voted on these threads, please do...

$50K poll:

www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18193

$70K poll:

www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18194

$90K poll:

www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18195

Happy Voting! :D

Cheers

Tia

[CJ22]

Nope. Not worth it.

[granger]

Nope. Not worth it.

CJ, are you voting "not worth it" even though Tia is only asking for people who are in or have lived in New Zealand to vote? Sorry for asking if you've already lived here. ;)

[Moorf]

If you don't think you can live as a family on $110k I think you ought to reconsider coming here.....

... I've just shown all these polls to my neighbour and her visiting friend - both would have been very happy indeed, one as a family of 4 and one as a empty-nester, to be on $70k as a household income... as it was they were both on under $50k for a family income.... and they have a good life. Needless to say they were gobsmacked at how much us immigrants seem to need to get by....

[nippa&pippa]

If you don't think you can live as a family on $110k I think you ought to reconsider coming here.....

... I've just shown all these polls to my neighbour and her visiting friend - both would have been very happy indeed, one as a family of 4 and one as a empty-nester, to be on $70k as a household income... as it was they were both on under $50k for a family income.... and they have a good life. Needless to say they were gobsmacked at how much us immigrants seem to need to get by....

:yes I think the part of the problem to people who think they "can't" cope with 70K or 90K is they either still stuck to or want to keep their UK's lifestyles and not prepare to change or find hard to change their lifestyles to fit in with kiwis' cost of living. Moorf has proved that their neighbours can cope under $50K because they never lived in UK (Is I am right, Helen?) to experiences with "need keep up with Jones" attitudes or got to have this, got have that etc. I found it best for me, "do I really need it?" when I go to shopping.

[zardell]

Nope. Not worth it.



I know what you are saying CJ22 and I'm pleased that you and Dusk will be earning as much as, if not more in Auckland that you do in the UK.

Good on you I say. You'll have a great life in NZ I'm sure.

However, I'm also sure that you are aware of other peoples situations and struggles for survival, as you read and post regularly on this forum.

Maybe diplomacy is not your strong point....;)

Maybe 'Nope. Not worth it for us' may have been the more tactful post...

Julie

xx

[Familyofmonkeys]

If you don't think you can live as a family on $110k I think you ought to reconsider coming here.....

... I've just shown all these polls to my neighbour and her visiting friend - both would have been very happy indeed, one as a family of 4 and one as a empty-nester, to be on $70k as a household income... as it was they were both on under $50k for a family income.... and they have a good life. Needless to say they were gobsmacked at how much us immigrants seem to need to get by....

Mind you...newer immigrants will often be hit by the hugely inflated housing market in the same way that first time buyer will be (although probably to a lesser degree with capital brought over) while people who have been settled in an area for a few years are likely to have a significantly lower morgage and therefore need less money to live.

[Familyofmonkeys]

We would happily live on this income :)

[Tia Maria]

I posted these polls purely for information, I was hoping it wouldn't get into judging. :(

People can only tell it how they find it, Moorf's neighbours being able to cope, proves nothing as people's circumstances vary so greatly.

I think it was marshanite who pointed out that they had been living on about $50K, but that they couldn't afford a family trip back, (often about $9k). It would probably take them years to save up for such a thing and to them, and many others, it is an essential to see their families.

I consider saving for my kids tertiary education and retirement an essential, others might not......

At $90K, roughly a third of families said they could not live happily, you can't just dismiss that as 'keeping up with the Jones'.

I hope people don't feel morally superior because they can survive on less money than others? As really there is so much about a family or individual's situation that could vary from yours and it doesn't mean that they extravagant.

Cheers

Tia

[Jennispink]

Mind you...newer immigrants will often be hit by the hugely inflated housing market in the same way that first time buyer will be (although probably to a lesser degree with capital brought over) while people who have been settled in an area for a few years are likely to have a significantly lower morgage and therefore need less money to live.

Good point well put:)
On my very limited experience though, I have to say that although we are skrimping a bit at the moment with just me working and having to lay out for big things like bonds and a car etc, as soon as Matt gets a job we'll, relatively speaking, be laughing compared to the uk:laugh
I think it mostly as to do with us not feeling the pressure to have all the newest stuff and being completely new to the country no-one expects us to be in a big posh house with all the best of eveything. I can't believe how generous my work colleagues are being. I've had so many requests to take unwanted stuff like heaters and furniture etc and I'm not too proud to accept them:nice1

[Moorf]

Just in case people don't think we've had to "adjust" we came from a salary of over 110k sterling.. so we've had to learn to live with lots less too. I guess it depends, as always, on what you want out of life here and whether you want to be here enough to want to adjust.... we knew when we came here that we were really going to work hard at it as I was giving up work and OH was taking a step down from contracting fees.. our attitudes perhaps made our lives here what they are... I don't know...

Regardless of their existing mortgage arrangement, locals do still have mortgages - often lots bigger than immigrants as they haven't had the luxury of large deposits. Yet they continue to earn the same as immigrants.

Definitely helps to get in with the locals and find out where they buy their stuff - food/fuel mostly round here.

Sophia - that's right, neither have lived in the UK, although their kids have at some stage, and they are constantly in awe of what we pay for things and always seem to know where we could have got it cheaper, to the extent that I'll ask her now before we buy if a big item. For instance, our mower packed up the other week and we were looking at a $700 bill for a new one. My neighbour pointed me in the direction of a guy in the village who, it turns out, has a shed full of mower parts and he's rebuilding ours and improving it.. for $200!!

Of course, I appreciate that this sort of community help we and others in rural areas get isn't the sort you'd perhaps find in urban areas... again, another big variable when it comes to if you can live on low salaries.

Another poll that asks just those in the big cities the same question would see a more pronounced "need high salary" result.

[zardell]

As really there is so much about a family or individual's situation that could vary from yours and it doesn't mean that they extravagant.Tia


Exactly right Tia.

And I'm the first to admit that a better salary and better working conditions were big contributory factors in our decision to move to Oz.

Julie

xx

[Jennispink]

I
I hope people don't feel morally superior because they can survive on less money than others? As really there is so much about a family or individual's situation that could vary from yours and it doesn't mean that they extravagant.


Didn't mean it to sound that way:o, I'm just chuffed to bits that we are finding life much more managable now

Jen

[Moorf]

I hope people don't feel morally superior because they can survive on less money than others?

I really hope it didn't come across as that.... :( I thought the comparisons were really interesting and worthy of discussion..

And I'm the first to admit that a better salary and better working conditions were big contributory factors in our decision to move to Oz.

See, even here we have a huge difference in expectations from ours.... so many different variables it's hard to pin it down.

[granger]

I posted these polls purely for information, I was hoping it wouldn't get into judging. :(



You're right Tia but if (and I do mean if) anyone is voting without having lived here it makes the poll less useful for people trying to get a clearer picture of life here.

[zardell]

I'm just chuffed to bits that we are finding life much more managable now.Jen


And that's what it's all about Jen.

Glad for you.

Julie

xx

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

Maybe what we need is a poll in reverse to these i.e. select your earnings bracket and are you happy, OK, or really struggling against each one.

No, actually can that, as you would also need to know city/rural and family size so people could make a fair comparison to their current or likely situations. Oh, and size of mortgage of course....

Too complicated to do on this forum which I guess just shows how different any individual situation can be.

[Georgebulldog]

If you don't think you can live as a family on $110k I think you ought to reconsider coming here.....

Here here, we have quite a big mortgage one going on two children who I can't help but buy it if I want it (got to stop that one) don't look too closely at the price of ood that much & manage easily on less than this

Unless your a family of a dozen maybe :D

[Familyofmonkeys]

I guess it depends, as always, on what you want out of life here and whether you want to be here enough to want to adjust

Absolutely....that's the point really isn't it....if you come here with the expectation of leading your UK lifestyle 'without the bad bits', then life here in NZ could be a bit of a struggle. You do need to change your habits, very few people get it right first time, but with time I think most people can get better at it. It depends whether you resent making these changes or not, and of course there is a minimum threashold that people can really live off...probably lower than most people realise and they would probably hate that lifestyle.

It reminds me personally of the point we reached when I gave up work after my eldest had been in nursery for 9 months, which we really hated. Suddenly we lost 40% of our income and it takes some adjusting. OK we didn't have childcare costs anymore, but you still have to cut your spending significantly in other areas, but we decided we would rather do that as it improved the quality of life for our family. As it happens there would be no point working now with 3 small children as I doubt I could earn enough to cover childcare costs unless I worked in the evenings/weekends.

[ourquest]

A house with a water view in a top location and suburb can still be bought for 350K. Might not be big, but location, location, location.

In world terms this is a cheap buy and accessible to anyone (terms and conditions apply) who earns $110K/annum.

This alone would make my answer yes, particularly given the fact that reliable cars are cheap to buy and large medical bills and most schooling is paid out of taxes.

[James 1077]

I've answered "Family - Would struggle but worth it" as this is pretty much the situation we are in and we have to watch the dollars but can do it and it most definitely is worth it!

Again it depends on how the $110k is made up as we live on just my salary so our net income is lower than two people earning a combined total of $110k but then we also don't have childcare to worry about.

Finally it also depends on how you personally define "Happily". The reason that I haven't chosen it is that we need to budget and watch our dollars each month. It means putting off certain things and not doing others. For some people that wouldn't matter as they are used to that sort of lifestyle but, for me, I wouldn't say that I was living happily on an income if I needed to budget.

Personal opinion is that once the OH goes back to work (if she wants to in a few years time) and we have two incomes and therefore allowing us to buy a nice villa in Devonport then we'll have enough to be able to say "Happily". This won't happen until we have a family income of over $150k though.

[incredible hulse]

I could survive on this figure, and to be honest could probably 'survive' on 70k plus. We are not extravagant spenders, have no desire to keep 'up with the jones' and can generally adapt to most situations. That said the question for me would be 'would it be worth it ?'. We had a very good life in the UK so were not running from anything; for that reason it comes down to do we have a better life in NZ on that income. Answer would probably be no.

[Milliemoo]

I posted these polls purely for information, I was hoping it wouldn't get into judging. :(

People can only tell it how they find it, Moorf's neighbours being able to cope, proves nothing as people's circumstances vary so greatly.

I think it was marshanite who pointed out that they had been living on about $50K, but that they couldn't afford a family trip back, (often about $9k). It would probably take them years to save up for such a thing and to them, and many others, it is an essential to see their families.

I consider saving for my kids tertiary education and retirement an essential, others might not......

At $90K, roughly a third of families said they could not live happily, you can't just dismiss that as 'keeping up with the Jones'.

I hope people don't feel morally superior because they can survive on less money than others? As really there is so much about a family or individual's situation that could vary from yours and it doesn't mean that they extravagant.

Cheers

Tia

Well said :nice1

Milliemoo

[gil]

Hmm. We came from a nice lifestyle in UK with our 4 kids and didn't want to "go backwards" in terms of comfort. We have a big house with sea views, in "top schools" area. To support that would be difficult on $110K, and as a retrograde step in comfort and lifestyle is not what we were looking for, I would have to say "Struggle and not worth it".

For what it's worth, we are not extravagant (rarely eat out or cinema, concerts etc), have no inclination to "keep up with the Joneses" and prefer a level of comfort that we have agreed for ourselves, not comparing to anyone else.

A house with a water view in a top location and suburb can still be bought for 350K. Might not be big, but location, location, location.


I've not seen anything in our area close to $350,000, ourquest. And for us, if it can't house us comfortably as a family, it's not something we would consider buying.

Gil

PS I realise that my definition of comfort may differ from other people's. As I said, it's a level of comfort that OH and I agreed over the years that we find appropriate and acceptable for us.

[Moorf]

I guess it also depends on your definition of "struggling".

Struggling for us would mean not being able to meet our financial commitments each month - for others it might mean not being able to have a takeaway once a week or not having a holiday once a year....

[Moorf]

I've not seen anything in our area close to $350,000, ourquest. And for us, if it can't house us comfortably as a family, it's not something we would consider buying.

I think you'd be struggling here too - perhaps Lyttleton or a small Diamond Harbour place - but hard to find one for that money in the main Chch seaside suburbs.

You could probably find one around that price at Leithfield / Amberley beach areas.... inland you'd definitely find a property for that round here - there's a house on 8 hectares across the road from us for $349,000 (small house, errmm, "needs TLC")

[peebles16]

I've said happily as we live on much less as a family of four now but as I have said on the other polls it doesn't cover everything we want. Our current single income doesn't allow us to save for holidays, further education, pensions etc as such and these are things I would regard as necessary for us to plan a good financially secure future for the whole family. That said when I start working we will be able to start savings so all should be good :) I also think this is a very personal opinion about what we, as a family, want from our life here in NZ and what is acceptable to us :yes

Karenx

[gil]

I guess it also depends on your definition of "struggling".

Struggling for us would mean not being able to meet our financial commitments each month - for others it might mean not being able to have a takeaway once a week or not having a holiday once a year....

:yes Spot on, Moorf

[zardell]

A house with a water view in a top location and suburb can still be bought for 350K. Might not be big, but location, location, location.

In world terms this is a cheap buy and accessible to anyone (terms and conditions apply) who earns $110K/annum.

This alone would make my answer yes, particularly given the fact that reliable cars are cheap to buy and large medical bills and most schooling is paid out of taxes.


I'm sorry Ourquest, but having lived in New Zealand I have to say that I personally find your post a little misleading.

Maybe you would care to post a link to support your sentence relating to a house being bought with a water view in a good location and a good suburb for $350K

You see, my perception is that it would be difficult for the average Joe to earn $110K/annum and still be within commuting distance of a job that paid that size of salary if they lived in the house you describe, but hey, I'm always ready to be corrected - go for it.

Being self employed and/or working from home whilst living in that type of property may be possible - I don't know.

Ones perception is ones reality.

Julie

xx

[Moorf]

Exactly Julie - a house with a water view in NZ for $350k? No problem.

A house with a water view "in a top location and suburb" - unlikely.

[mgbridges]

Exactly Julie - a house with a water view in NZ for $350k? No problem.

A house with a water view "in a top location and suburb" - unlikely.

Sure as heck wouldn't get one around where we are on the North Shore, Auckland!

Anneliese

[Tia Maria]

Granger - I did try to PM you but it won't let me, anyway....

Just wanted to let you know my comment wasn't aimed at you.

I agree that if those not in NZ vote, it kind of removes the whole point of the poll, which needs to be based on people's experiences rather than expectations.

Oh well, these things never go quite the way you expect! :laugh

Cheers

Tia

[james the mechanic]

A house with a water view in a top location and suburb can still be bought for 350K. Might not be big, but location, location, location.

In world terms this is a cheap buy and accessible to anyone (terms and conditions apply) who earns $110K/annum.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/house

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Property/Residential-Property/Houses-for-sale/auction-137527611.htm

PROSPECTIVE
One man posts from his prospective and another says he’s wrong, based on what? :no

[ourquest]

I'm sorry Ourquest, but having lived in New Zealand I have to say that I personally find your post a little misleading.

Maybe you would care to post a link to support your sentence relating to a house being bought with a water view in a good location and a good suburb for $350K

You see, my perception is that it would be difficult for the average Joe to earn $110K/annum and still be within commuting distance of a job that paid that size of salary if they lived in the house you describe, but hey, I'm always ready to be corrected - go for it.

Being self employed and/or working from home whilst living in that type of property may be possible - I don't know.

Ones perception is ones reality.

Julie

xx

Pukerua Bay, Plimmerton, Camborne, Paremata, Whitby...all part of a larger area known as Porirua and they have exactly those houses. Not a great number of them at that sort of price, admittedly, but each of us only need one house to live in, and I have walked in a few already that are of entirely acceptable standard. And I do know all about the importance of north facing, the issues with black plastic plumbing pipes and leaky homes, potential rotting foundations pretty much how to spot good position. The latter is all about aspect, street and accessibility to the practicalities that meet our needs.

And these are genuinely top suburbs. About 25km away from Wellington, that's 30min by train and they all have decile 10 schools and average incomes well above the Wellington average. They are well known to be desirable for other reasons too. The views across the bay over Mana Island to South Island are just magnificent and change every day, and if your house is on the other side of the hill then the Porirua harbour has its own tranquil beauty. The opportunities are there for kayaking, yachting, looking around in rockpools, walking through rural farmlands, mountain biking in nearby Belmont Park or just shopping in the very functional Porirua City centre. Take an easy drive up the Kapiti Coast or head into Wellington to take the kids to Te Papa (again!).

Apologies if my post is misleading anyone. I thought it was quite good news.

[zardell]

You see, my perception is that it would be difficult for the average Joe to earn $110K/annum and still be within commuting distance of a job that paid that size of salary if they lived in the house you describe, but hey, I'm always ready to be corrected - go for it.


I've had a look on TradeMe in these areas and as I said I am always ready to stand corrected. If as you say these are classed as good areas with the type of housing that you want then go for it.

:nice1

My perception is obviously not the same as yours, but that doesn't make either of us wrong, just different.

Julie

xx

[Carol]

They ARE all good areas
And yes - you can pay that price.... I suspect they would need a lot of work though.


But....

You can also pay well over $1,000,000!
And for the best spots...... eg on SH58 overlooking the inlet - nearer $2m!

[ourquest]

If as you say these are classed as good areas with the type of housing that you want then go for it.


xx

Just to add that my post was not really about what I want, but about the possibilities available out there to make a $110K salary workable.

[ourquest]

They ARE all good areas
And yes - you can pay that price.... I suspect they would need a lot of work though.


Some, yes of course. But for example there is a 3 bedroom upstairs unit (in a block of four; semis/upstairs downstairs with a view of the inlet from a huge deck, with a garage as well. List price 320K, expected in this market to be closer to 300K. Faces south (there is always something) but it is very well upgraded inside and is basically in top shape.

Another at $359K is a stand alone 3 bed with double garaging, and has some inlet views also. Both these are in Camborne.

In Plimmerton there is a fantastic condition 2 bed with conservatory (but no garage) going on auction and expected to fetch up to mid 300's.

Many of the members on this forum are ex UK where I gather average houses are not exactly big. Coming from SA means I am used to some space, and still I am seeing properties in this range which are very liveable.

[ourquest]

But....

You can also pay well over $1,000,000!
And for the best spots...... eg on SH58 overlooking the inlet - nearer $2m!

Sounds rather like an area to invest $350K in then, doesn't it.

[IanW99]

Sounds rather like an area to invest $350K in then, doesn't it.

Sorry, but I agree with others and think that your posts regarding house prices are very misleading.

If anyone is coming to Wellington on your advice that they could get a good property for NZ$350K with sea views is IMO likely to be very disappointed.

That isn't to say that what you suggest wouldn't potentially be a good investment, or that it isn't possible to buy a property in those areas at this cost, just that these are definitely at the lower end of the market.

Ian

[zardell]

Just to add that my post was not really about what I want, but about the possibilities available out there to make a $110K salary workable.



Oooh, your point is a little clearer to me now I think.

Are you saying that a salary of $110K (which as we all know is an extremely good salary by NZ standards) will work if the person that earns that amount of money probably comes from the UK, is happy to live in a home that's small (and although live able by your standards, not as spacious as you yourself would be used to) in a good area and with a water view?

Well I'm sorry, but I still do find your thoughts and posts on this matter a little misleading to those who have never stepped foot in NZ, let alone inside a house in a good suburb, with a water view valued at $350K or less.

Like I say, ones perception is ones reality.



Julie

xx

[peebles16]

Many of the members on this forum are ex UK where I gather average houses are not exactly big. Coming from SA means I am used to some space, and still I am seeing properties in this range which are very liveable.

I do struggle with sweeping generalisations and I think this is one :uhoh I'm from the UK, had a reasonably good sized house with plenty of room for the family and a big garden - I reaaallly like my space :).

I hope that we are able in the future to buy something similiar here in NZ . I think what the problem is that lots of folks from all over the place read this forum and to say that you can easily buy a family home with sea views for $350K is not a generalisation but a random observation. It doesn't factor in a heck of alot of variables as in where, what area, communtable distance, schools, work opportunities etc and when you break all that down for most folks it's not an option ...

I searched loads of real estate websites before I posted this and living in a shack seemed to be the recurrent theme for sea view house in that price range ;)

Karenx

[Kate D]

You're right Tia but if (and I do mean if) anyone is voting without having lived here it makes the poll less useful for people trying to get a clearer picture of life here.

This is a tricky one...

I understand the poll, but for so many of the people viewing here, the question is possibly more along the lines of:

"Do you think you could move to NZ and survive/live happily etc on a salary of XX?", or even "would you be prepared to move to NZ for a salary of XX"?

I really admire (am possibly even a little envious...) those who appear to not only be surviving but have a flourishing family life on what I would consider to be a low salary because the priorities are not material goods, but family life. But for me (single), and many others, making the jump here, even with all that it offers, would have been/will be a jump too far without what appears to be a salary commensurate with lifestyle etc expectations. So, from that perspective, I totally empathisise with CJ's comment too, whether it's in this $110K section or the $50K section.

Hmm....

Kate

[Jo Jo]

I voted couple, struggle but worth it. But to put that into context, we have only been here for seven months: emigrating is quite expensive, and setting up a new home is quite expensive as well, so we have had a lot of expenses over the last few months that are out of the ordinary. So, while it's a bit of a struggle financially at the moment, I don't expect it to be a struggle in a year's time, and am hoping we will actually feel quite comfortable.

As Charles Dickens said:

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
(David Copperfield)

[ourquest]

Ok I posted an observation. Then when asked to prove it, I did, short of posting actual links to these houses. When it was suggested that my observations were for houses that needed lots of work, I disagreed that this was necessarily always the case based on my own careful observation. I added that the houses were spacious to myself coming from a country where houses are generally bigger so that you would understand that it is not my perception that a 90m2 house is either very big or very small.

And I think those of you who have been quick to criticise might have missed the point. If there are houses affordable for this salary range in the TOP suburbs then how many exist in middle-income suburbs? If those people emigrating come from places like the USA, SA, UK or most other countries and had a house fitting that description there then yes, they might very likely be disappointed here, but probably because they would have been on large salaries in their country of origin. But for myself, I did live in a slightly bigger house in a much bigger piece of land...but it did not have the convenience of the ones I have seen here, or water views, or all day sun etc etc. I am not disappointed at all and as an emigrant to New Zealand I consider my opinion as valid as anyone elses.

[Carol]

Sounds rather like an area to invest $350K in then, doesn't it.

perhaps...
But you would need to accept that you are always going to be at the bottom end of the market and as such your perceived profit will be minimal.

There is no question at all that the areas you mention are lovely.
Most of the schools in the area are excellent (although I do know people who would disagree strongly - another subject and not the right place to discuss)
For me personally - I prefer more local (walkable) shopping facilities than any of them offer - but Porirua is only a short drive/bus ride/train ride away.

While I wouldnt want to contemplate that bridge every night - or Mana Esplanade!..... but there is no doubt Plimmerton would be my choice out of all of them.
However...
As a family of 5 - there wont be many places (if any) that I could afford there.

The Kapiti coast offers more options. But I'm still not convinced I could buy up there even with $350k and get a water view. I could be wrong...

No-one is dissing your opinions - but I cant say i agree fully with you.
Sorry.

[incredible hulse]

We're based in Kapiti. We also looked at all those areas mentioned; agree with Carol that Plimmerton would be the choice. I didn't see much that I would consider suitable for a family for under 500k to be honest - that's coming from the UK with our small houses ;) If you wanted a nice 4 bed in Raumati/Pram with sea glimpses you'd be looking around 500k, with sea views add another 100k+, if you wanted to be beachfront start at 900k and expect to have to do a lot of work. We did find a 3 bed (about 150 sqm on Rosetta Road which was 750k but to make it a 4 bed and big enough for a family of 4 would have cost another 300k

[Carol]

The overwhelming reason however for us not to live in any of those suburbs was the choice of secondary school.

We wanted co-ed and not private. (Simply couldn't afford the fees for 3 kids)
Our choice was Aotea College or Samuel Marsden. (Although at the time - it wasnt actually functioning...)

At the time we looked - Aotea just didn't cut it. Didnt even come close.
(It may well be different now - on that I cannot comment - however there has to be a reason why so many kids (literally hundreds!) are bussed over to the Hutt from the suburbs mentioned)

We werent that enamoured with Whitby - so we moved into the area of choice for secondary school to ensure enrolment.
At the time - that was far more important to us than having a water view....


so..... could we survive in a bottom-end market house and have to put our kids through private ed? Absolutely no way.
I do realise that this isn't the case for everyone - but for us - we did actually intend to come to NZ for a better lifestyle - not a worse one.

[zardell]

Ok I posted an observation. as an emigrant to New Zealand I consider my opinion as valid as anyone elses.


Absolutely. Unquestionably so.

I consider that everyone's opinion is valid, so all I'm saying is that in my opinion your posts (like some estates agents descriptions) can be misleading to people who have not stepped foot in NZ and have no idea what cheaper housing in NZ is really like.

Anyway - can we please let this go now, as this thread is about living on $110K per annum, not the incredibly poor housing standards at the lower end of the market in some NZ suburbs.

Julie

xx

[hball]

My vote - no, definitely not!

Coming to NZ was for us, the chance to experience life down under, and that meant being able to earn a good salary and travel. We love NZ and live in Auckland - yes, housing is more expensive than other areas, but wages and opportunities are better IMO!

Since our livestyle in the UK allowed us to eat out and have holidays with the kids this is something we would have found really hard to give up regardless of where we lived.

[Tia Maria]

This is a tricky one...

I understand the poll, but for so many of the people viewing here, the question is possibly more along the lines of:

"Do you think you could move to NZ and survive/live happily etc on a salary of XX?", or even "would you be prepared to move to NZ for a salary of XX"?

I really admire (am possibly even a little envious...) those who appear to not only be surviving but have a flourishing family life on what I would consider to be a low salary because the priorities are not material goods, but family life. But for me (single), and many others, making the jump here, even with all that it offers, would have been/will be a jump too far without what appears to be a salary commensurate with lifestyle etc expectations. So, from that perspective, I totally empathisise with CJ's comment too, whether it's in this $110K section or the $50K section.

Hmm....

Kate

I think that would be quite an interesting poll if you fancy starting one Kate! (I'm all polled out for the moment! :D). It would obviously show what wage would lure prospective migrants.

The polls I've posted are more to ascertain when the majority, (on this forum!), start to feel comfortable, either with the monetary sacrifices being outweighed by the positives of the move, or comfortable in both income and lifestyle.

We've obviously still not reached the 'Happily' point for families, but I daren't go up to $130K! ;)

Cheers

Tia

[CJ22]

I have to say, we ended up being offered a bit more than we would have settled for (maybe 10 or 15% more). Like a lot of people, going to NZ is an adventure for us, and something we really want to do, but not at the expense of our lifestyle. Besides which, I'm not prepared to get ripped off by a New Zealand employer who needs me more than I need him but isn't prepared to acknowledge that. It's a matter of principle - pay me what I'm worth, plus a bit more for the risk of moving across the world, or no deal. It wouldn't matter how much the streets are paved with gold.

I hear all the time on here about people who took massive pay-cuts just for the chance to get to NZ. No offence, but that's madness. NZ needs immigrants...if they're not even prepared to pay the international going rate, then they're not serious, and you're being taken for a ride.

Had we not been offered the bottom line we'd decided on, we definitely would have turned down the offer (and started looking elsewhere).

[dusk]

...and when CJ says lifestyle, we're not talking keeping up with the joneses (or anyone else for that matter) or having all the latest gadgets and new cars and exotic holidays - just enough so that we can live without stressing too much about it, go out and do stuff for fun now and again and hopefully put a bit by to save for a deposit for a house - as we don't own property in the UK and won't be taking a large chunk of equity with us.

[Carey]

It may seem like madness CJ to accept a low wage just to get to NZ but we have no other way to get there and having been twice, (first time for a year), we really feel we like it enough to take a large pay cut, to start us off. We remind ourselves of the big picture adn that we will work our way up. Jobs in early childhod education just are not well paid. There is not the money available to pay decent wages, so despite huge shortage of staff, it's take it or leave it. We've decided to take it, get the right qualifications and a bit of experience and then see if we can be in a better position to up our income. Watch this space!

[IanW99]

I have to say, we ended up being offered a bit more than we would have settled for (maybe 10 or 15% more). Like a lot of people, going to NZ is an adventure for us, and something we really want to do, but not at the expense of our lifestyle. Besides which, I'm not prepared to get ripped off by a New Zealand employer who needs me more than I need him but isn't prepared to acknowledge that. It's a matter of principle - pay me what I'm worth, plus a bit more for the risk of moving across the world, or no deal. It wouldn't matter how much the streets are paved with gold.
...


I totally agree with everything you put here, however this poll was really asking people who have the experience of living in NZ what level of pay they would consider reasonable to live on in NZ, and not how much they could earn, want to earn or are worth.

Ian

[Carol]

Everyone has their own priorities.
Money is not always number 1 for some... certainly not madness. Just personal perspectives.


As far as the poll is concerned there is also the factor of what is comfortable for one family, may well be a huge drop in lifestyle for another.
Quite complicated really.

However...... I would agree with Helen - that if you gave this to the majority of kiwis that I know too - they would all say they would be living in luxury!

[incredible hulse]

I have to say, we ended up being offered a bit more than we would have settled for (maybe 10 or 15% more). Like a lot of people, going to NZ is an adventure for us, and something we really want to do, but not at the expense of our lifestyle. Besides which, I'm not prepared to get ripped off by a New Zealand employer who needs me more than I need him but isn't prepared to acknowledge that. It's a matter of principle - pay me what I'm worth, plus a bit more for the risk of moving across the world, or no deal. It wouldn't matter how much the streets are paved with gold.


I agree with the above comment but when you say that are you saying you are expecting your NZ employer to pay you comparable rates to the UK? I'd be surprised if any can match London contract rates for example. I work in a 'niche' area in IT in NZ terms and took a job that they had been trying to fill for 9months but still had to take a cut on UK rates (about 1/2 of UK package) to achieve the move. As they had to stretch to pay that salary, I'm also now in the situation where I have little or no chance of pay rises and also little or no other opportunities to move to

[CJ22]

Money is not always number 1 for some... certainly not madness. Just personal perspectives.

I wasn't suggesting it was about money, I said it was about the principle, and about not allowing potential employers to take you for a ride. And of course people are perfectly entitled to work subsistence wages if they value what they are getting for their sacrifice. But my point is that New Zealand needs skilled people more than those skilled people need New Zealand, so the skilled people should have the bargaining power to get a decent deal. The fact that they rarely seem to (if comments on this site are anything to go by) suggests that something is wrong with the process, or that people are too willing to accept a lousy deal for the sake of a dream, and that potential employers know this perfectly well and are prepared to exploit it.

I agree with the above comment but when you say that are you saying you are expecting your NZ employer to pay you comparable rates to the UK? I'd be surprised if any can match London contract rates for example. I work in a 'niche' area in IT in NZ terms and took a job that they had been trying to fill for 9months but still had to take a cut on UK rates (about 1/2 of UK package) to achieve the move. As they had to stretch to pay that salary, I'm also now in the situation where I have little or no chance of pay rises and also little or no other opportunities to move to

IH, all I can say is that we managed to achieve 10-15% over our UK salaries, and we aren't underpaid at the moment by any means (though we're on salary, not contract rates, and certainly not London contract rates. But then, you can't match London contract rates anywhere in the UK either! I'm not expecting to match the best rate available - I'm talking about the average salary for the role across the country). We're also involved in some fairly niche work in IT (we both work in the same field). This was from an employer that offers salaries based on the grade of the role, so we didn't cut a special deal - that's just how much they pay. We're at the top end of their scale, but within the scale nonetheless. If somebody is only offering to pay half the average going UK rate in an IT role, then something is wrong. They can't afford skilled people, it's as simple as that. If you're comparing the rate with an overblown London-based contract rate, then of course it's not going to compete and I would expect it to.

Everybody has to make a decision about what they're happy with. But I'm not prepared to travel half way round the world for the privilege of living in penury in a country I can't afford to explore, for an employer who expects ME to take all the risks and hard work of emigrating so they can profit from my cheap labour. It's not about the money, it's about not being taken for a ride.

However...... I would agree with Helen - that if you gave this to the majority of kiwis that I know too - they would all say they would be living in luxury!

Maybe, but I'm a skilled and qualified professional, I expect to do better than 'the majority'. That's why I studied and trained so hard. I'm not comparing it with a shop-assistant's salary, I'm comparing it with mine. Certainly in IT there's not excuse for bad wages - there's a skills shortage world-wide for heaven's sake! Salaries are starting to inflate even in the UK. NZ can't afford to stick it's fingers in it's collective ears and yell "nah nah nah I can't hear you" and expect to entice immigrants from affluent countries with crappy wages.

[Moorf]

Fortunately, NZ isn't a little Britain... and not everything is directly linked or compared with the UK.. salaries included. Talking about NZ exclusively compared with the U.K. and what it pays it's natives is only valid to you, surely, so why NZ should match your particular country's salary seems odd to me... NZ pays NZ salaries - yes, some people are prepared to take a lower paid job to get here - they obviously really really want to be here - you sound like you would be happy anywhere that paid you want you wanted... I think different priorities are at work here....

Plus, seeing one's "lifestyle" as so static also seems odd, but the I guess you're coming to NZ to have a replica of the lifestyle you had in the U.K... if we had used this as rule of thumb to move here we'd NEVER have got here!!

I hear what you're saying though, and many immigrants have exactly those expectations/requirements - if you've got the NZ$ deal you want that's great, but not everyone should expect this imho.

[Moorf]

I expect to do better than 'the majority'.

Ohh, don't move round this area then - the local farmers are the majority and they're rolling in it at the moment :D

[hball]

In support of CJ22, it seems to me that there are two distinct groups of migrants; those who deliberately select NZ for the lifestyle the country offers, and will accept a lower income/standard of living to be here, and those who migrate for a better lifestyle/future than that which they already have in whichever country they are currently living. (Historically the reason our ancestors migrated.)

Some two years ago the company I work for deliberately advertised a managerial position in UK as they were aware that they needed someone with (lets call it) 1st world experience. The guy who is now happily in the position had never considered emigrating, let alone NZ! But was offered a very good package to entice him over which included all financial assistance and an exceptional housing package. Luckily he and his wife now love NZ, so win win situation.

To go back to the thread, could he live on $110? No idea, I just know he doesn't have to!!!
:laugh

[zardell]

I wasn't suggesting it was about money, I said it was about the principle, and about not allowing potential employers to take you for a ride. And of course people are perfectly entitled to work subsistence wages if they value what they are getting for their sacrifice. But my point is that New Zealand needs skilled people more than those skilled people need New Zealand, so the skilled people should have the bargaining power to get a decent deal. The fact that they rarely seem to (if comments on this site are anything to go by) suggests that something is wrong with the process, or that people are too willing to accept a lousy deal for the sake of a dream, and that potential employers know this perfectly well and are prepared to exploit it.

NZ can't afford to stick it's fingers in it's collective ears and yell "nah nah nah I can't hear you" and expect to entice immigrants from affluent countries with crappy wages.


Totally agree with your principles.

I believe that skilled people do have the bargaining power, however NZ is infamous for it's low salaries, an infamy that through it's nature breeds low salary expectations by the immigrant.

Also, if some immigrants are bringing large lump sums of money with them to NZ and can afford to buy a property outright thereby dramatically reducing their outgoings, a drop in salary in order to 'live the lifestyle' is equally as attractive. Therefor, these immigrants feel themselves to be 'better off' in both the lifestyle and the financial areas.

One thing I have noticed is that people who earn transparent salaries seem to be earning a more comparable salary to the one they were accustomed to in the UK.

Like I said in a previous post, being made to feel your worth through your salary was definitely a contributory factor when we considered moving to Oz.

Julie

xx

[incredible hulse]

Fortunately, NZ isn't a little Britain... and not everything is directly linked or compared with the UK.. salaries included. Talking about NZ exclusively compared with the U.K. and what it pays it's natives is only valid to you, surely, so why NZ should match your particular country's salary seems odd to me... NZ pays NZ salaries - yes, some people are prepared to take a lower paid job to get here - they obviously really really want to be here -

True, but this is not solely an issue in comparison to the UK; that's why thousands are leaving every year to work in Oz. NZ can keep paying NZ salaries but if they want to develop on a global scale (They as in the govt and business as opposed to immigrants who come here for a change of life after making their money elsewhere) they have to get realistic. This is not solely salaries either - it relates to NZ business investment in terms of training and R&D where I believe it ranks near the bottom of OECD ratings. It is the working environment rather than the salary that will personally drive me from NZ to be honest if we do go

[incredible hulse]

IH, all I can say is that we managed to achieve 10-15% over our UK salaries, and we aren't underpaid at the moment by any means (though we're on salary, not contract rates, and certainly not London contract rates. But then, you can't match London contract rates anywhere in the UK either! I'm not expecting to match the best rate available - I'm talking about the average salary for the role across the country). We're also involved in some fairly niche work in IT (we both work in the same field). This was from an employer that offers salaries based on the grade of the role, so we didn't cut a special deal - that's just how much they pay. We're at the top end of their scale, but within the scale nonetheless. If somebody is only offering to pay half the average going UK rate in an IT role, then something is wrong. They can't afford skilled people, it's as simple as that. If you're comparing the rate with an overblown London-based contract rate, then of course it's not going to compete and I would expect it to.


Sounds like you've done well for yourself. I was also not comparing against contract rates (I had gone perm a few years before coming here), but I was working down south which paid slightly better I guess (although there are some cracking contracts up in Cheshire and Yorkshire at the moment ;) ), and I was comparing against the complete package (bonus, pension, health, etc) which is not the norm in NZ. As I say maybe I was overpaid :D.
Anyway good luck

[Moorf]

Would be interesting to know how much people are taking a cut in pay from other countries in a comparable job... likewise whether it's just those in I.T. and business-related professions who are suffering loss of pay.. for instance, the majority of people I know here who are better off than they were in the U.K. are the construction workers, joiners, tradespeople....

I suppose I still see NZ as this wee island stuck in the middle of nowhere with just 4 million people and can never really compare it to the bigger countries... and people don't have the same reasons for coming and staying so the variables that make up whether you will be happy or struggling here are endless.. and I don't think we'll ever solve this one!

Interesting to note how the posts become more emotive when we started talking about a $110k salary.....

[Tia Maria]

Would be interesting to know how much people are taking a cut in pay from other countries in a comparable job... likewise whether it's just those in I.T. and business-related professions who are suffering loss of pay.. for instance, the majority of people I know here who are better off than they were in the U.K. are the construction workers, joiners, tradespeople....

I suppose I still see NZ as this wee island stuck in the middle of nowhere with just 4 million people and can never really compare it to the bigger countries... and people don't have the same reasons for coming and staying so the variables that make up whether you will be happy or struggling here are endless.. and I don't think we'll ever solve this one!

Interesting to note how the posts become more emotive when we started talking about a $110k salary.....

I did a poll for paycuts on *ahem* another forum *ahem*, and I think the average was between 30-40%. It would be interesting to see what initial paycuts people have taken on this forum also.

Yes, definitely more emotive! :laugh

Cheers

Tia

[benhila]

Hi

Ben has taken a 70% paycut compared to his UK package and we are yet to know whether or not we can live happily on his currnet salary. We were willing to take this considerable drop in income for the change (sometimes life is just too comfortable) and becuase we love NZ (based on 3 visits as tourists). We've been here (in Wellington) for two weeks and so far so good. We view money as a means to an end rather than as an end to itself and I am sure that most people on this forum share this view. We do not value ourselves on the basis of our income and expect others to treat us the same way.

Hila

[Moorf]

OH informs me that we have taken a 66%-ish drop in pay being here (I don't do maths!)... that's with me starting out again in another field via freelance...

[hball]

While at first I went 'gulp' at 70% and 66% drop in salary, without being too nosy, have you also dropped a similar amount in outgoings, ie lower mortgage or even no mortgage, transportation costs, etc which would in effect maintain your UK income level?

[Moorf]

No probs - we had a mortgage just over £100k in the UK and just over $200k here..... but have some savings left in the UK and pensions which won't be touched for another decade. We also don't have a company car here as we did in the U.K.

[Moorf]

Mind you - when we were planning to come here our conversations were more of the "can we afford to live there on a lot less" and not "can we get this salary in NZ", so perhaps we were more prepared, and willing, to be paid a lot less - something that Benhila said struck home "We do not value ourselves on the basis of our income..." I like that....

[willsken]

When we looked at moving here, I resigned myself that I would go from being a head of faculty to becoming a straight teacher again. I'd also been informed that I wouldn't be credited with the full amount of years I'd been teaching on the NZ scale. Huge pay drop expected and it certainly didn't put us off. I was in fact lucky to land a head of department role and it turned out I would indeed be credited with all my teaching years on the scale. In reality I ended up earning $25k more a year than I expected which was a huge bonus. As it turns out, with OH going self employed, it was much needed. I don't think we'd be as happy in NZ as we are, if I'd earned what we had originally thought. (Not with the mortgage we're paying at the moment anyway) At the end of the day if you're a public sector worker there is no wiggle room. You are payed on the scale that's in place and that's something you decide, if you want to do or not, right at the beginning of the process.

[Leanne]

Would be interesting to know how much people are taking a cut in pay from other countries in a comparable job... likewise whether it's just those in I.T. and business-related professions who are suffering loss of pay.. for instance, the majority of people I know here who are better off than they were in the U.K. are the construction workers, joiners, tradespeople....

I suppose I still see NZ as this wee island stuck in the middle of nowhere with just 4 million people and can never really compare it to the bigger countries... and people don't have the same reasons for coming and staying so the variables that make up whether you will be happy or struggling here are endless.. and I don't think we'll ever solve this one!

Interesting to note how the posts become more emotive when we started talking about a $110k salary.....

I'm coming from Canada and yes I'll be taking a lovely paycut. A 25% paycut to be exact. I'll still be in a trauma hospital doing the exact same job. But there's unions to deal with. It's not like you can pick a salary and then negotiate it with a union. They have put me one level from the top (so there is still room for a little cash later on). I am trying to negotiate an extra week of annual leave (fingers crossed on that one).

But I'm single and moving there on my own and don't have a family to worry about. I can be very frugal on my own. I'm just taking a leap of faith that NZ is where I am meant to be.

And I would love $110,000! :laugh

[benhila]

No, we did not have a mortgage in the UK and we do not expect to have a mortgage here. The 70% drop is a real one but the change in our surroundings is also real; a white beach, more sun, south island and the tongerero a few hours drive away - I believe that at mid-life (approaching fifty) you either change your partner or your circumstances if you are to be happy. We wanted to stick with each other, that's where London had to go.

[Sam B]

CJ22 - as Willsken points out, your theory comes unstuck when you work in the public sector. I am a speech and language therapist, and I have taken a 50% pay cut. I am not happy about this, but I would have been waiting for ever if I wanted them to match my UK salary. The salary here is worked out on a scale that is rigidly applied, they won't change the rules just because I was paid more in the UK. There are also not the same opportunities to specialise here, so I am stuck with this salary for good now as I am almost at the top of the scale.

So I did not move to NZ for the salary. But we are mortgage free, and my smallish UK income from a rental property translates well here too. It was definitely worth it.

Many of the jobs on the Long Term Skills Shortage list are public sector jobs, and there is just not the scope to demand a higher salary than other Kiwis.