[mesh2008]

Although IT is listed on the list of shortage in NZ, it seems to me that NZ is not really suffering from any shortage of IT skills. It has been a year since I submitted my first job application to a NZ employer and although I search the web daily since then to apply for matching IT jobs, yet no progress at all.

All employers ask me to go on a visitor visa to attend a face-to-face interview, they also said that this was the only way to prove that I'm serious about moving to NZ! For God sake, a young man who paid more than 1200USD to do the paper work for his ITA, don't you think this is a sufficient proof of how much serious I am? do they think that after saving money for years to start the immigration, I wouldn't continue and prefer to loose the money? (PS: 1USD = 5.5 EG pounds, here we get paid in EG pounds not USD)

I usually get the same answer from employers: we are very much interested in your skills but we are unable to help unless you specify a timeframe for your trip to attend interviews! Paying 5000USD and spending around 22 hours in the air to reach NZ make it impossible to me to do without a 100% guaranteed job offer besides I'm not really sure about the acceptable level of spoken English in NZ. I'm not a native English speaker (IELTS 7.5), will they understand this?

If there is a real IT shortage in NZ, how do they fill positions if they are not considering overseas applications? :confused: Don't they know about phones and Skype? I can't understand why they insist on face-to-face interviews; I thought Graham Bell invented the telephone to make life easier.

Am I too pessimistic or what? how do NZ employers think? Any ideas?

[Potato]

I don't think that your experience proves there is no IT shortage in NZ. If I'd been waiting for a year with no luck, I would consider that I was doing something wrong. It's not just IT which pushes for face-to-face interviews, the experiences of many, many posters here proves that it's much easier to get a job if you go out there on a visitor visa. In fact, it is oft claimed that you will be quite lucky to land a job without doing this.
I don't blame employers for this, it's in their interests to be completely sure they're making the right choice in employing that person. There is an awful lot that you can tell from meeting someone face-to-face that you cannot tell from a Skype conversation. In the end, it is up to them.
I know it sounds tough, it's hell of a long way to go and it is expensive, but it seems that for most this is the status quo- once people get out here they often find that they pick up many job interviews and a lot of them go very well.
It's not the case that "they are not considering overseas applications", it's just that they really want to meet these applicants in person first.
Don't really know what advice to offer, other than, if an employer requests that you go for an interview out there, ask them for a Skype interview first. Maybe you could wow them and turn things your way?

Obviously cannot judge your spoken English but your written English is perfect.

[Alan]

Potato, if you go and see them then unless you have PR first they also dive for cover. I spent three weeks doing nothing but job hunting and it was extremely tiring and the fatigue of trying to get people to see past your immigration status was amazing.

I have also been told by many HR people that getting hiring managers to accept that they need to broaden their horizons is a very difficult task. I had one (English) recruitment agent tell me that there wasn't any skills shortage, and that NZ wasn't making the best of what it had!

This all leads to the perception that there isn't a skills shortage to the depth that they say there is, although we all know there is and that's backed up by many many reports concluding the same, for instance a government report said that 78% of posts in my area were left unfilled.

In short NZ is throttling itself back by having an insular view which is very strange considering so many Kiwi's use OE as a major learning point.

However I don't understand too much what the problem is as MESH is going to have PR, which will then open up the market for him.

[mesh2008]

Thank you guys for your replies. It is true that I applied to PR but because of NZQA, I believe my application will take forever to get a decision. I have been trying to find a job to help me speed up the process instead of waiting for a response from NZQA. No job offer and my qualification hasn't been verified yet, this what makes me really frustrated :(

[Tim G]

Don't understand why IT is so different? Nearly all medical jobs appear to be interviewed over the phone, not even a web cam. If you plainly have the skills and supporting quals what can be their problem?

This migration journey is certainly a patience tester.

Best of luck.

[Leccy-Lee]

Its a shame, and as Tim said many jobs go happily for telephone interviews etc. The irony is of course the IT is all about using technology and video conferencing etc?

I know money of costs to come over for interviews is a massive hurdle (hell i know more than most, read many my posts) But could you not get a working holiday visa or similar, which gives you a year in NZ as you please (working allowed) and then i could almost guarantee you could find employment and stay here? Its pretty much what i have done, albeit plan it better than i did!

[mesh2008]

Unfortunately, Egypt is not eligible countries for the working scheme :( If medical jobs are phone-interview, as Tim said, why don't they phone-interview IT candidates???

[Ojai]

I know an issue that comes up is to make a job offer and wait, and wait, and wait for the candidate to decide if they want to come. Or they will accept to get PR, then decide not to take that job offer they got. Both have happened in my company recently, so I can understand the reluctance to hire someone with no work permit from overseas.

They way I did it (I'm in IT) was to line up interest from recruiters from overseas, then I came over on a visitor's visa. I had a job one week later.

[mesh2008]

I agree with you Ojai but I think this won't happen if the candidate has already started the migration process. Without a job offer, the immigration is a tough process and it becomes very easy when a job offer is secured so why would someone do that if he/she has the chance to ease their immigration case??

[mesh2008]

and also I think if the candidate gets PR with the help of a job offer, then he/she has to start the job within a few months after the PR is granted, correct?

[Familyofmonkeys]

Well - most NZ employers are shifting focus from recruitment to retention, since there is a lower cost associated with retention as opposed to hiring. I think there is a skills shortage here, still, but upskilling is happening slowly.

I agree about the use of technology for interviews, but the fact is people still like to physically meet someone. Basic psychology for the majority. Its expensive to recruit. You want to get a feel for the person 'in person'.

That said, if you are serious about job hunting but can't get over here, than plan a European holiday and visit the recruitment/ expo fairs in the coming overseas recruitment season. That will show you are serious whilst minimising your costs. Just a suggestion...

[Alan]

I know an issue that comes up is to make a job offer and wait, and wait, and wait for the candidate to decide if they want to come. Or they will accept to get PR, then decide not to take that job offer they got. Both have happened in my company recently, so I can understand the reluctance to hire someone with no work permit from overseas.

They way I did it (I'm in IT) was to line up interest from recruiters from overseas, then I came over on a visitor's visa. I had a job one week later.

Ojai, did you have specific IT skills i.e. software experience/qualifications? Sorry, but I am getting really disillusioned by people saying how easy it was for them to get jobs, when I spent three weeks doing nothing (and I mean nothing) but job hunting in Auckland and as I say most people won't even meet you unless you have the permission to work in place.

I met a hiring manager at TelstraClear and he said that he hated recruitment agencies as they waste his time and the candidates, also he (also British) found that people do pigeon hole you when you come over rather than listen to what you are looking for job wise.

[Hesh]

I agree with all of you.. I guess hiring IT professionals in NZ is a joke.. for all other jobs the employers are ready to interview candidates over phone / video conferencing.. but for IT, these things disappear.. I have a similar exp.
I have 5+ yrs of exp in IT Security / Information Security and necessary industry qualifications.submitted my ITA in Apr'07 and started following with the employers.. many of them wanted me to meet in person so took a trip in Aug'07. Almost got through at 2 places but they wanted me to join immediately and I needed 4 weeks as I had to come back to India and resign from the current post.. (I wonder had I been their employee, if they had released me immediately ).

Now I have a PR.. planning to move in end July but the employers are still reluctant to conduct an interview over phone / video conf.

[tenacioust]

Looks like I'm not the only one experiencing the same thing. :rolleyes:

I started looking for jobs 2 months back online (it.seek, trademe, etc), hooked up with a couple of recruitment agencies... the impression I get is that the employers are not willing to take you in if you don't have a visa. My VO told me the ITA process will take 6-10months (man, that feels like FOREVER!!) as the priority is for applicants with job offer. I'm really curious... just how many applicants out there actually have job offers prior to their visa decision. Don't their employers require them to get visa first too?

Reading some of the posts here... I'm really split as to whether I should head straight over to NZ now for 2 weeks and job hunt? Seems like being there in person may not actually help too.

[Beachcombers]

It is easy to see it from an employers point of view.

Why waste money and time recruiting someone from overseas who may or may not get on a airplane?

One thing I am unclear on , why is your area of expertise? There is currently 3706 IT jobs listed on Seek! I suspect you are finding it hard simply because you are in Egypt.

The NZQA process can be fast tracked (at extra cost) to 20 days, we had to do this for my wife qualifications (which were in Swedish, so also had to be translated).

Sorry to say, you seem to be seeing problems, rather than solutions.

[tenacioust]

It is easy to see it from an employers point of view.

Why waste money and time recruiting someone from overseas who may or may not get on a airplane?

One thing I am unclear on , why is your area of expertise? There is currently 3706 IT jobs listed on Seek! I suspect you are finding it hard simply because you are in Egypt.

The NZQA process can be fast tracked (at extra cost) to 20 days, we had to do this for my wife qualifications (which were in Swedish, so also had to be translated).

Sorry to say, you seem to be seeing problems, rather than solutions.

There are a lot of IT jobs no doubt... but I think you also need to drill it down to your specific area of expertise like Networking, Database Administration, Programming, Business Analyst, Project Management, etc.

[skibumwa]

I spend a total of $2400 USD on a 3 week reccy trip trip last year (2007) April and May. I ate pretty well, stayed in hostels, and even couchsurfed (couchsurfing.com). It was tiring, but i came home with 4 job offers in writing. Later on in July I moved down on my Work Visa.

In the end of the day, unless you get lucky, you REALLY need to come down here and interview. It shows to potential employers that you are serious about moving here. :nice1 In the minds of NZ-based IT recruiters and hiring managers, anyone from anywhere on Earth can send an email saying, "I want to move to NZ and I have good IT experience/skills, here's my resume/CV!". :confused:

Please read my post from last year. It might help you or give you some ideas:

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12190

Where I work, they are dying for good IT people in software testing and software development. They pay well too... and offer flexible work from home options 1-2 days/week too!.. Don't give up, keep trucking! (If you work in Software Testing or Software Dev, PM me so I get your email address and CV).

Cheers,

John

PS. With regards to your ITA application and the $1200, you have not been approved for PR yet. right? I know it's a sh*tload of cash as I just paid that last October, but yes you are not yet approved for PR. Once you are approved for PR, you watch how much less BS you will get in return. :)

[BigRod]

Looks like I'm not the only one experiencing the same thing. :rolleyes:

And that will continue to be the case. I used to wonder why everyone wanted to face-face interview overseas candidates - but having been in the position of attempting to recruit from overseas I now know why!!

You have a vacancy you need to fill so you do the telephone / video conference interview, check references etc and offer the job. The overseas candidate accepts the job on a jointly agreed start date. After a short while the candidate starts to go 'quiet' then out of the blue tell you they are having problems with the house sale (or aunt betsy, their wife or their pet), and 'so could you shift the start date back?'

So all this time you have put plans in place, work assigned and you have to shift by another 3 months causing major headaches. After another three months you get told 'I'm not really sure I want to come to NZ now - sorry!'. At this point wind the clock back 6-9 months and re-start the recruitment process for the position that needed filling months ago.

.... that is the point you say 'Now I see why everyone wants a face-face interview - if they are serious about wanting to be here they would be'. Believe me I would never again offer an overseas job without a face-face interview. Now its simple for future vacancies - you want a job in NZ; then come to NZ and I'll consider. I know many others who have been burnt by overseas candidates doing exactly the same.

HTH

Rod

[Alan]

Looks like I'm not the only one experiencing the same thing. :rolleyes:

I started looking for jobs 2 months back online (it.seek, trademe, etc), hooked up with a couple of recruitment agencies... the impression I get is that the employers are not willing to take you in if you don't have a visa. My VO told me the ITA process will take 6-10months (man, that feels like FOREVER!!) as the priority is for applicants with job offer. I'm really curious... just how many applicants out there actually have job offers prior to their visa decision. Don't their employers require them to get visa first too?

Reading some of the posts here... I'm really split as to whether I should head straight over to NZ now for 2 weeks and job hunt? Seems like being there in person may not actually help too.

I think if you have a very specific skill in say software engineering then yes going may help, or if you are a skilled craftsman like an electrician, carpenter with all your papers then it will be fine, otherwise I am not so sure.

One thing I learnt from my reccie that finished two weeks ago, is that employers generally are holding off right now even more than normal, and a lot of that is to do with all the talk surrounding the economy and the fact that there is a general election coming up, so the timing is not the best.

I believe that my time spent there was worthwhile for me to understand how the companies are structured, different terms used in NZ compared to here in my field etc, but for people to make glib comment like "If you go out there then you'll come back with X amount of job offers like me" is just plainly wrong. It may stir people up, you may get a job offer but likewise you may get nothing and have spent a fair amount of money into the bargain, it depends if you can afford it. For me 78% of employers cannot fill posts in my area, but there are still big issues with getting them to recruit migrants and even more so ones that require a visa.

I suggest you really analyse your skills, what you are looking for and research the NZ market first, to really understand what you need to do next.

[mesh2008]

It is easy to see it from an employers point of view.

Why waste money and time recruiting someone from overseas who may or may not get on a airplane?

One thing I am unclear on , why is your area of expertise? There is currently 3706 IT jobs listed on Seek! I suspect you are finding it hard simply because you are in Egypt.

The NZQA process can be fast tracked (at extra cost) to 20 days, we had to do this for my wife qualifications (which were in Swedish, so also had to be translated).

Sorry to say, you seem to be seeing problems, rather than solutions.

Thank you for your reply. I'm a senior software engineer and Linux administrator. There are many jobs on seek and others and as I mentioned I check such job portals daily for matches.

I did fast track my NZQA application; it has been over three months and yet they haven't completed it!!! I contacted them and they said that my BSc was being verified and they can't estimate how long would it take. They also mentioned that the verification was not done for each application. I think your wife's application was not subjected to verification, this is why it was only 20 days.

My ITA expires this month and I'll have to ask for an extension, I'm afraid it may be the start of the endless loop. Some people here posted their negative experience with NZQA, some had to wait for more than 7 months and they even haven't got an answer :(

[tenacioust]

I spend a total of $2400 USD on a 3 week reccy trip trip last year (2007) April and May. I ate pretty well, stayed in hostels, and even couchsurfed (couchsurfing.com). It was tiring, but i came home with 4 job offers in writing. Later on in July I moved down on my Work Visa.

In the end of the day, unless you get lucky, you REALLY need to come down here and interview. It shows to potential employers that you are serious about moving here. :nice1 In the minds of NZ-based IT recruiters and hiring managers, anyone from anywhere on Earth can send an email saying, "I want to move to NZ and I have good IT experience/skills, here's my resume/CV!". :confused:

Please read my post from last year. It might help you or give you some ideas:

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12190

Where I work, they are dying for good IT people in software testing and software development. They pay well too... and offer flexible work from home options 1-2 days/week too!.. Don't give up, keep trucking! (If you work in Software Testing or Software Dev, PM me so I get your email address and CV).

Cheers,

John

PS. With regards to your ITA application and the $1200, you have not been approved for PR yet. right? I know it's a sh*tload of cash as I just paid that last October, but yes you are not yet approved for PR. Once you are approved for PR, you watch how much less BS you will get in return. :)

Hi John,

Thanks for the link and sharing your story. Your 8000mile "interview expedition" is a real inspiration. :clap Maybe I'll be crazy enough to try it too. LOL!

I started off as a programmer (5 years experience - ASP, ASP.NET, C#) but in all honesty, I have not touched coding for almost a year. Looking for a job in project management (PMP certified).

[tenacioust]

Thank you for your reply. I'm a senior software engineer and Linux administrator. There are many jobs on seek and others and as I mentioned I check such job portals daily for matches.

I did fast track my NZQA application; it has been over three months and yet they haven't completed it!!! I contacted them and they said that my BSc was being verified and they can't estimate how long would it take. They also mentioned that the verification was not done for each application. I think your wife's application was not subjected to verification, this is why it was only 20 days.

My ITA expires this month and I'll have to ask for an extension, I'm afraid it may be the start of the endless loop. Some people here posted their negative experience with NZQA, some had to wait for more than 7 months and they even haven't got an answer :(

mesh, I feel for you man. Fortunately my NZQA application was not as bad. I fast track it too and it came back within a month.

[mesh2008]

mesh, I feel for you man. Fortunately my NZQA application was not as bad. I fast track it too and it came back within a month.

Thank you. Just one question, do you have a qualification from one of the recognized universities listed on NZIS website?

[mesh2008]

And that will continue to be the case. I used to wonder why everyone wanted to face-face interview overseas candidates - but having been in the position of attempting to recruit from overseas I now know why!!

You have a vacancy you need to fill so you do the telephone / video conference interview, check references etc and offer the job. The overseas candidate accepts the job on a jointly agreed start date. After a short while the candidate starts to go 'quiet' then out of the blue tell you they are having problems with the house sale (or aunt betsy, their wife or their pet), and 'so could you shift the start date back?'

So all this time you have put plans in place, work assigned and you have to shift by another 3 months causing major headaches. After another three months you get told 'I'm not really sure I want to come to NZ now - sorry!'. At this point wind the clock back 6-9 months and re-start the recruitment process for the position that needed filling months ago.

.... that is the point you say 'Now I see why everyone wants a face-face interview - if they are serious about wanting to be here they would be'. Believe me I would never again offer an overseas job without a face-face interview. Now its simple for future vacancies - you want a job in NZ; then come to NZ and I'll consider. I know many others who have been burnt by overseas candidates doing exactly the same.

HTH

Rod

I don't know, just I think if an applicant has already started the immigration before seeking for jobs, this may be sufficient to prove that he/she is serious about moving. As I said before, without a job offer the immigration is awful. So why would someone decide not to move when it becomes easier if he/she started the immigration without a job?

[eternalkiwi]

The other risk that may cause employers to be cautious on employing people from overseas sight unseen is that some people come to NZ, start work, gain their PR and move one within 1-6 months of arrival. Again there are a number of reasons which may or may not be genuine, including those related to culture shock or settlement.

To avoid this, it is less risky for employers to focus on candidates who are already in NZ and have experienced NZ's lifestyle and employment environment.

Shawn

[Avalon]

all you IT guys.

It took my husband 2 years to get a job offer in New Zealand.

During that time we had a 3 week recce trip and he spent the whole of that doing interview after interview. Lots of interest - lots of "yes - we want you to work here", lots of contacts. Not one job offer.

Then - out of the blue it felt like - a Video conference interview and 2nd phone interview; and a job offer was ours. This came though just as we got the iTA - so it was good timing. And it wasnt from a company that had interviewed him face to face on the recce trip.

It was incredibly tough, and my husband also had one of those jobs that is highly specialised and where people are in very short supply.

It can be VERY tough getting decent IT jobs - in some ways - it can be even when you are living here. A lot depends on what you do and how specialised you are. (And if you want a decent paycheck!)

So dont give up. If it gets too much - why not take a month off from looking at jobs at all. It can be really tough - and demoralising - so take a break.

You will get there in the end.

There definitely is a shortage of good IT staff in companies. The same jobs are advertised time and again as they cant get people to fill them. (Partly becasue they wont pay well enough!). Its really not a "fake shortage", but most companies just will not bother with overseas hiring. This does not mean however that no one will hire you from overseas.

Good luck:nice1

[Alan]

Cheers Avalon, I was starting to go crazy

[tenacioust]

Thank you. Just one question, do you have a qualification from one of the recognized universities listed on NZIS website?

Yes, it's quite funny. My university is recognized but the VO still insisted on the NZQA.

[DB]

I was in country, and applied for dozens of jobs, and got exactly two interviews, one of which was in a very unrelated field, before getting an offer. One job I applied for through an agent for which I was an exact skills match I didnt even get an interview for, and then the agent informed me that the job was going to a chap in the UK who did a phone interview.

So based on personal experience, I'd say its tough to get jobs here.

What I would say is this; some job titles are slightly different here (eg network engineers often appear to be Windows sysadmins who can plug in a Cat5 cable), and employers are looking for the exact experience they state; additional skills seem almost to be an impediment.

[Alan]

I also found that jobs with the same title to them in NZ have a completely different content to here, so again another plus for doing the reccie and something that I would not have known without going out there.

[russetoak]

Back yesterday from 11 days in NZ. A drop in my wife points forced us into a job hunt, as without one we could not progress much further on 105 point. I work in IT as a Project Manger. Before going out I applied to eight agencies and 7 direct jobs. The trip was successful with 4 potential employee interviews and 3 jobs offers. But during the trip a number of key learning points were gleaned.

1. Most agencies advertise the same job so you can divide the number of jobs on seek by a factor of ten.
2. You need to interview with the agency before being put forward to an employer.
3. NZ very keen on psychometric testing which includes maths and verbal reasoning. As I have not had an interview in ten years I found these a challenge at first but you can find practice questions on the web, which help improve you speed.
4. NZ employers look well on those that put themselves out to attend interviews in person it proves your commitment. I had my CV on Seek for nine months prior to going out with no interest.
5. All of the interviews came from one agency Hudson the other a direct contact. Hudson proved different from most that I did not have to chase to maintain contact.
6. Manage your prospective employers keep track of your CV and whom it’s sent to. It is poorly looked on to have your CV sent to an employer from more than one agency. It is deemed that you cannot manage yourself.

happy to answer any further questions

[JandM]

3 job offers - congratulations!

[skibumwa]

3 offers! Great job. I used Hudson. They got my BOTH of my jobs via Hudson. I quit my first one after 8 months because I felt the company and my professional goals were a mismatch. I am now making 33% more with my new job. Hudson submitted my CV and negotiated the salary I asked for from my new company. All's good in Welly.. :cheers.

http://www.hudson.com

for those IT people looking for work.

Cheers.
John

[dilanium]

Three job offers is wonderful!!!

congrats! :nice1

[Alan]

Out of interest which office was used for the three job offers?

[NZDreamer]

Hi mech2008 ;:)

I’m an IT professional as VB.Net developer with over 8 years , I’m from Jordan . I walked in the hall path of immigration process. I sent my original documents to NZQA and I submitted my EOI with 130 points. And after 8 month of waiting they did not recognize to my work experience in Jordan. Anyhow , I’m now planning to go to NZ as a visitor , I sent my visa application ,bank draft for maintaining one month there , and a paid round trip ticket ,then I sent them to (NZ Dubai Immigration branch) . I’m waiting the result and I hope to have a visa without any difficulties. I’m now in the process of sending my CV to IT recruitment agencies in NZ and if I’m lucky I will be able to have some interviews regarding to my arrival date next month if I have the visit visa .Tell now I already paid a (US$1620) for the ticket and (US$120) for the visa fees and (US$1000) as Bank draft as evidence to maintain my staying there for one month and I think I need to pay more .I’m leaving my wife and my three kids to do my best to have a good future for them in NZ .
However , I think it is very risky to pay that much of money without any guaranty to have a job offer , but I think it deserves . I will not feel sorry if I came back with nothing I mean with no JOB OFFER, in the same time I’m s positive and I feel and I can tuch the job offers in my hand :yes. So , I think you have to try to do so .:)

Please wish me luck in my adventure .

[JandM]

Please wish me luck in my adventure.

I do, wholeheartedly.

[russetoak]

Alan

Both the Hudson offices in Auckland and Wellington were proactive and even negotiated an increase without any prompt. I found the staff very approachable and willing to help.

Dave

[Alan]

Alan

Both the Hudson offices in Auckland and Wellington were proactive and even negotiated an increase without any prompt. I found the staff very approachable and willing to help.

Dave

All I can say is that the Auckland office of Hudson were the best with lovely people although one guy there was a complete pratt, and yes they did put themselves out more than most.

However they like others have also struggled with the immigration side of things, out of interest are these employers getting you a work vise, waiting for you to get PR or are they accredited?

[Nathan]

Hi mech2008 ;:)

Please wish me luck in my adventure .

Absolutely, good luck!!
Kiwi's believe in people 'putting it out there'. You'll benefit from proving you're willing to take a risk and make a big effort to succeed.
I really admire your attitude that you have to give it a real serious go, don't look back, and don't regret.
Your positive attitude will take you far on your adventure.

...and best wishes for your family who will be waiting.

Cheers,

Nathan

[Moorf]

Hi mech2008 ;:)

I’m an IT professional as VB.Net developer with over 8 years , I’m from Jordan . I walked in the hall path of immigration process.

Drop me a PM NZDreamer - the company my hubby works for is always looking for .NET developers...

[NZDreamer]

Dear Nathan ,

You don’t know how are your words infected me and gave me th e enrgy to be more positive . I’m looking for words to thank you and to tell you how much we are happy to have your sharing with us specially this time .

Thank you very mush.
Kind regards