[troutman]

Hi guys
Frantically packing and discarding, came across old BT router which begs me to ask the question to all rural dwellers in NZ, how far are you from your telephone exchange and what's your broadband speed?
We are 7kms from ours and only manage 750 kb/s, good old BT!

Dave

[StevieD]

Can't help on that score Dave, I know there are a few people who have had problems, and you have to realise that NZ is not UK infrastructure wise!

The moder routers do a better job than older ones but it is a case of hit and miss ..... will find out when you get here!

[SteveR]

we are 5.5Ks from our exchange and get between 1100 and 1600kb/s'
just done a speed check and got 1202kb/s that is through firefox addon not sure where the test server is though NZ or USA. this is using telecom lines and ISP

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

I'm afraid it's a suck and see situation if your somewhere rural over here.

[suebeenz]

For what it's worth, if you phone telecom and ask them to tell you how far you are from the exchange, they should be able to call you back with that info. (although the chap I talked to said nobody had ever asked him that question) But unless you have a phone #, I don't think they'll be able to help you.

Also, I recently stumbled upon this page, which shows you a graph of speeds versus distance from exchange.

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/internet/home_adsl/extreme/

Note that ADSL2+ is only just starting to be rolled out. Orcon is rolling out in Auckland and has plans to roll out to other large cities this year. It happening really slowly though.

Looks like Vodafone is rolling it out more quickly than Orcon. They have a cool map showing their 'Red Zone' areas here: http://vodafonemaps.co.nz/

After persistent nagging at Telecom, they 'unofficially' told me that they expected ADSL2+ to be rolled out country wide by November - somehow I don't believe that though. :-) I did notice though that Telecom now offers ADSL2+ capable modems, so maybe some truth to it.

[Steven & Ann]

Telecom is rolling out ADSL2+ technology to the major Urban cities, to the exchanges, and has nearly finished.

Telecom is converting old "dumb" cabinets to supply ADSL2+ directly, instead of from the exchange. This is part of a 4 year program, which started recently. This will mean many customers are closer for broadband purposes than they used to be, and so will go faster. This equipment is supplied to everyon in the industry under wholesale plans.

A number of other companies are entering the exchanges and are putting their own equipment in, currently ADSL2+, but this wil not bring anyone closer. I havent heard of them intending to go any further then Telecom.

The Commerce Commision has adjusted pricing to raise the cost of broadband in rural areas. This may increase the profitability of rural broadband to the point where investment outside the main urban cities is viable. Its possible they will also raise the cost of calling too.

The Commerce Commission is helping set the NZ standards for VDSL2, which will boost speeds for customers experiencing good ADSL2+ bandwidth. VDSL2 does not improve services for customers beyond the first 1.3 Kms or thereabouts.

The problem is that the phone service works on say 7 Kms of copper, and broadband is ideal around 1 Km, and the phone networks were built before broadband was invented.

[suebeenz]

Thanks for that - interesting.

Made me stumble onto this link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10497807

>>
This is, indubitably, a good thing - shorter runs of copper make for faster internet services. But it also has a chilling effect on competition and makes the much vaunted local loop "unbundling" of local exchanges a lame duck before it has hatched.

Why? Because within two years Telecom will have closed most of the exchanges it began opening up in August - thereby stranding competitors' investment and cutting off competing loops at the knees.
>>

If that's true, no wonder Orcon is slow rolling things out.

This link says that they'll have cabinitzation to 80% of households by 2012, which would of course leave those out in rurals areas, out in the cold. So, guess that Nov deadline I heard wasn't accurate. (why am i not suprirsed)

http://www.chorus.co.nz/cabinetisation

[neilw71]

He he...we supply the concrete bases to those new cabinets :) I can tell you that only approx 80 have been installed around the country so far, out of a total of approx 3000 over the 4 year roll out period. Things are due to kick into gear from August onwards, but the installers are under pressure to find the extra labour to complete the project.

We had a site visit down in Pt Chev (first roll out area) about 6 weeks ago to see the "insides" of the cabinet - lots of good stuff that meant not a lot to me :)

Neil

[Steven & Ann]

In an exchange catchment, some customers are served from street cabinets and some from the exchange. As such many customers will be exchange fed and so able to benefit from Local Loop unbundling.

The bad news is that if your cabinet is on the list to be upgraded, you wont be offered LLU produts, as you will be disconnected when your cabinet is upgraded. As such you will be left with the kinds of products currently on the market. Any innovative products enabled by LLU cant be sold by Commerce commission rules if the telco knows you can lose them at a later date.

More interesting is that the cabinetisation project and the LLU projects are both fighting over the same resources (civil contractors) and installation engineers. They are both in short supply at the moment, and this will cause delays to both projects.

[richard]

I have just had a look at the ADSL status on my router and it says

Modulation - ADSL_2plus
Data Rate - 13901 downstream

Do I assume our exchange has been done then?

:clap

[suebeenz]

I have just had a look at the ADSL status on my router and it says

Modulation - ADSL_2plus
Data Rate - 13901 downstream

Do I assume our exchange has been done then?

:clap

Hmm, seems like? Who is your broadband with? What do the results say when you click on la server here?:

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

Lucky you! :cheers

[richard]

Hmm, seems like? Who is your broadband with? What do the results say when you click on la server here?:

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

Lucky you! :cheers


I am with Orcon. The download speed from LA isn't stunning 1875kbps/132kbps.

It is better to Auckland on this site http://www.speedtest.net/ with 3416kbps/134kbps.

I suspect that although our exchange has been done the speed is artificially limited unless I pay for an ADSL2+ plan :wah

[suebeenz]

I am with Orcon. The download speed from LA isn't stunning 1875kbps/132kbps.

It is better to Auckland on this site http://www.speedtest.net/ with 3416kbps/134kbps.

I suspect that although our exchange has been done the speed is artificially limited unless I pay for an ADSL2+ plan :wah

I don't believe Orcon has their hardware in ChCh yet. But if you put in your phone number here, if you see any '+' plans, that should tell you.
http://www.orcon.net.nz/orconathome/

I suppose it's possible that Telecom has their hardware in there? If you call up Orcon broadband support, they should be able to tell you for sure (they tend to me more helpful than Telecom).

[PeteS]

After persistent nagging at Telecom, they 'unofficially' told me that they expected ADSL2+ to be rolled out country wide by November - somehow I don't believe that though. :-) I did notice though that Telecom now offers ADSL2+ capable modems, so maybe some truth to it.

ADSL 2+ ? We don't have ADSL........ And when I asked Telecom 2 years ago when we would get it, they said "soon".

We are now a telecom free zone, and about to install Farmside.

[Steven & Ann]

Hi Richard,

You are on ADSL2+, almost definitely on Telecom equipment resold by Orcon. Don't believe that Orcon "limits" you any further, other than in the amount of International bandwidth they buy for everyone to share.

Given your speed tests, its unlikely you will ever get significantly faster, as you are limited by the length of the phone line between you and the exchange (about 2.4 Kms). The unbundling of Telecom lines may include VDSL2, but at 2.4 Kms you are too far away for that to help either. If your speed is below about 22 Mbps on ADSL2+ your probably too far away.

You may however get less congestion (or more) by moving to another provider, depending on their purchases of international bandwidth.

Until you move home thats as good as it gets for you :)

[suebeenz]

Hi Richard,

You are on ADSL2+, almost definitely on Telecom equipment resold by Orcon. Don't believe that Orcon "limits" you any further, other than in the amount of International bandwidth they buy for everyone to share.

Given your speed tests, its unlikely you will ever get significantly faster, as you are limited by the length of the phone line between you and the exchange (about 2.4 Kms). The unbundling of Telecom lines may include VDSL2, but at 2.4 Kms you are too far away for that to help either. If your speed is below about 22 Mbps on ADSL2+ your probably too far away.

You may however get less congestion (or more) by moving to another provider, depending on their purchases of international bandwidth.

Until you move home thats as good as it gets for you :)

Hard to decide who to believe, but Orcon told me that they could confirm that Telecom has ADSL2+ hardware installed, but is still artificially forcing clients to connect(/transfer?) at ADSL rates. Btw, how did you work out 2.4 kms from exchange, just based on speeds?

About NZ traffic and overseas traffic, I don't actually see much of a difference at all between the two (testing with speakeasy versus speedtest websites). Definitely not as pronounced as Richards, and I'm with Orcon as well.

Think there's a way us to definitively find out if our exchange is scheduled to be removed (the cabinetization process that you alluded to)?

Pete, totally agree with you there. In 2006 Telecom announced rolling out the adsl2+

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2006/03/broadband_news.html

:-)

[Steven & Ann]

I worked out the distance based on the speed charts (reach-rate graphs). Its not accurate, as Telecom has at least two thicknesses of copper it has used, so someone could be on thin copper but closer. You also could have repaired cables, which slow things down. In some areas the grounds acidic from volcanic gases and that eats the copper away, slowing the broadband. In NZ there are many reasons why it’s hard to ensure everyone gets fast broadband.

Makes no difference though why your speed is what it is. The line speed you modem gives is from your modem to the exchange, and the new technologies can make fast connections go faster, but can’t improve slow connections.

When Telecom puts the ADSL2+ equipment in they do everybody’s equipment in that exchange, then turn them on in one go. That period only lasts for about 5 to 10 days, depending on the exchange size. If the Modem connects at ADSL2+ G.Lite or anything else that is not ADSL, you are fully upgraded. So what Orcon said was basically true but probably out of date.

Telecom assures me that there is only two control points, one in the rack at the exchange and the other in the wholesale handover. The setting at the rack for Richard is either 32Kbps or 64 Kbps, per customer on the rack. If its 32 K it will soon be 64 K, soon as they finish updating them. Since most customers are not using their broadband every second, and then not using all of it at any time, you get to share the whole racks bandwidth, which is likely to be a 1Gbps link. This is then aggregated in each exchange, in each exchange area then goes to the nearest area where your ISP connects, and most of this now is all 1Gbps links. The link to the ISP is bought by them and they can purchase three qualities, which is where one ISP can be faster than another. It then travels in your ISPs network to Auckland, where the overseas cables are landed. At this point it gets very expensive, and each ISP buys what they can afford. Some spend more and some don't.

If you want a simple test of international bandwidth, go to youtube. If you can watch the videos without gaps your ahead of the game. If the whole video is downloaded before you have decided if you like what you see, that’s excellent. If you watch it after a meal your in a rural area :)

Don’t worry too much about the speed tests. If five people use them at the same time you get a better result than if ten people use them at the same time. The speedtest sites don't tend to have the performance for large numbers of testers. Some were set up in the days of slow ADSL (2 Mbps plans). Competition is driving faster plans, and the test sites have to catch up.

The busy time is from about 9pm til 12pm, although it varies from one ISP to another and on the days of the weeks. Traffic starts building around 4pm. Its all very predictable.

The upgraded cabinets are all listed. What's harder to work out is which cabinet any property connects to. That programme will take 4 years if it runs to plan, so don’t hold your breath. Methinks it will go faster where Telecom sees the competition, and slower where there is none. As such I don’t trust the schedules too much. You are likely to get public LLU databases, which will show gaps where the upgrading cabinets are. If you are in an exchange where an ISP is entering the exchange, but you cant get LLU, then your cabinet may be one of those pending an upgrade.

Oh, and I am in the trade, so I am reasonably well informed.

Incidentally, it's not generally realised, but the fastest NZ plans are now faster than the fastest UK plans, as measured by Epitiro for the Commerce Commission.

[suebeenz]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply. Going to take me a while to digest that. :-)

On related note, I see that Verizon in US is rolling out upgraded service plans:
http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2008/verizon-extends.html

>>
In remarks prepared for delivery today at the NXTcomm conference here, Verizon President and Chief Operating Officer Denny Strigl announced that the company is expanding its industry-leading FiOS Internet connections of 50/20, 20/20, 20/5 and 10/2 Mbps across all of Verizon's FiOS Internet service footprint in 16 states.

Only Verizon delivers ultra-high-speed broadband straight to customers' homes over the nation's most advanced fiber-optic network. Although the network already reaches 10 million homes and business, it will reach more than 18 million by 2010.
>>

20/20 for $65 a month. Sounds dreamy. Glad to see NZ is at least starting to catch up though . :-)

[incredible hulse]

My broadband performance is pitiful - getting a max of 188K on speedtests (multiples run ranging from low of 96k!!).

Was fobbed off by telecom that it was because I was 4.9k from the exchange so got a neighbour to run the same test at the same time as me and he got a max of around 1.85M/sec. Got a call open with telecom now to investigate but so far only had the usual unplug the sky box and phones which pushed me up to just over the 200k/sec mark

[suebeenz]

Hulse, I've had simliar woes with speeds and reliability. I saw no change when I changed ISPs. After countless support calls, and checkups, I decided to bite the bullet and ask Telecom to install a splitter and a dedicated broadband jack. (actually, has to ask my ISP, to ask Telecom to ask Telecom) I think that cost me about $125. But it saved me a lot of grief, because from now on, whenever there is a problem, we're quick to rule out anything in the house and up to Telecom to check their lines. (they'll still ask me to try another modem, but at least they don't ask me to try getting new DSL filters etc).

Not sure $125 is worth it for you, but definitely was for me.

[incredible hulse]

Hulse, I've had simliar woes with speeds and reliability. I saw no change when I changed ISPs. After countless support calls, and checkups, I decided to bite the bullet and ask Telecom to install a splitter and a dedicated broadband jack. (actually, has to ask my ISP, to ask Telecom to ask Telecom) I think that cost me about $125. But it saved me a lot of grief, because from now on, whenever there is a problem, we're quick to rule out anything in the house and up to Telecom to check their lines. (they'll still ask me to try another modem, but at least they don't ask me to try getting new DSL filters etc).

Not sure $125 is worth it for you, but definitely was for me. Cheers -definitely considering it at the moment (it's around 250 bucks now although most are doing deals for 150); had that setup in the UK. I'm just waiting for the argument with Telecom when they try and charge me 81 bucks for turning up and unplugging the sky connection :roll

[suebeenz]

On related note, spotted this article that talks more about timetables for ADSL2+ elsewhere in the country. Much slower than I had hoped for.

Vodafone expects to have completed "unbundling" 41 Auckland exchanges by October and to have started installing ADSL2+ technology in Hamilton and Tauranga exchanges by the end of the year.
Exchanges in Rotorua, Taupo and Palmerston North will be outfitted next year and Christchurch and Dunedin are scheduled for 2010.
The company expects eventually to have a presence in 100 of Telecom's 505 exchanges.
Local loop unbundling was part of the Government's telecommunications reforms, introduced to force Telecom to open its network to competitors and jump-start competition in the sector.
State-owned telecommunications company Orcon already has 13 unbundled exchanges throughout Auckland and 40 under construction, including six in Wellington. The Wellington exchanges are expected to go live in late August.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4575060a13.html

[suebeenz]

Oh, and here is where you can find out more details about Telecom's cabinetization, and dates of when they are planning on tackling them in your area.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/n69,6.html

[incredible hulse]

Well finally bit the bullet and paid the 150 dollars to get a dedicated broadband jack and now happy to report that the line is quicker. A whole 10k per second .....

Telecom are now not claiming to be able to get 2-4 Mb/sec to the house (that they supposedly got 2 weeks ago on their visit) and say the current speeds of 250kps is the best I can get being 4.2Km from the exchange. They change their story by the minute !

Since also found out there is an exchange about 300 metres from my house which I should be on but it is now full (since more houses have been built in the area after mine have been put on it)

They must rank as one of the poorest companies I have come across for customer service and general ineptitude

[akp713]

I live on the North Shore of Auckland, certainly not a rural area, yet speed-test shows that my broadband speed is only 200 kbs, hardly better than dial-up. When our internet and phone inexplicably went down for three days the telecom people at first refused to come out and then the man they sent literally spent 2 minutes in the house, said it wasn't their problem and left. Absolutely the worst monopoly I've seen.

Also what they call broadband in NZ doesn't match the US definition. In the US broadband means it comes through a cable TV line, high-speed internet through the phone lines is DSL. That's really what they have in NZ and it is much slower than broadband.