[nippa&pippa]

Follow on from other thread about baby wipes, about lots of products now are "Made in China"
How do you feel about it?
Do you buy them or try your best to avoid it? etc...

[jubjub]

I read a very interesting article in Next magazine a few months ago about a person taking a challenge to only buy & eat NZ produce for a period of a week. It proved to be quite a challenge as nearly everything from their daily existence has some form of foreign labour involved at some level..

Much as I dont particularly like jobs being outsourced to another country, (the moving UK call centres to India thing really annoyed me!) its the way the world seems to be working, its a much smaller place these days and I guess as much as we dont like it, tough, its staying that way!

I guess the other side of the coin is that its good for the countries that are getting all these new jobs....

sitting on the fence as usual here.... (damn libran star sign!)

[dilanium]

I try to purchase and use as many locally produced products as possible.

[nippa&pippa]

sitting on the fence as usual here.... (damn libran star sign!)

SNAP! typical libran we are...

For us, my OH and I made deal that we avoid buying toys for our children that are Made in China.
We also avoid foods Made in China because of there is risk of allergen may be presents in the foods while China haven't really fully understood the food allergies. With our children's sensitives to trace of foods (especially with nuts/peanuts), we can't take risk.
Clothes, we don't have much choice...as local-made's are so expensive.

[cappuccino]

I've just read a book called "Where do underpants come from" by Joe Bennet. He is English but lives in New Zealand (author of Land of Two Halves). Anyway, this book is about tracing a pair of 'Made in China' underpants (bought in the Warehouse) back to their origin in China. Fascinating insight into how and why so much is made in China.

PS - I'm also a Libran :laugh

[ellenmelon]

I've just read a book called "Where do underpants come from" by Joe Bennet. He is English but lives in New Zealand (author of Land of Two Halves). Anyway, this book is about tracing a pair of 'Made in China' underpants (bought in the Warehouse) back to their origin in China. Fascinating insight into how and why so much is made in China.

PS - I'm also a Libran :laugh

I saw him on "Good Morning" (that show is sooo crap) and one comment of his really stood out for me. He said that some people he spoke to rely on the wages that they get from working in factories with a high work load and that boycotting some products means that they could lose their jobs. And that they would be very angry if that happened. Really made me think if boycotting was doing more harm than good for some people?

[Nienke]

I don't buy food grown in China anymore as I just don't know what's in them, due to a.o. severe air pollution and soil pollution and the use of pesticides, where the veggies live and breathe...:no
Tonight's news just proved that point to be right.
I try and avoid buying products made in China, but that's hard. I do try not to buy any chinese made toys. I wash all clothes before wearing them.
There have just been to many cases of harmful stuff coming from there, not in the least the counterfeit medicine! :exit
(I'm pretty sure my spelling is off here and there but I'm just too tired....)

[wwwdot]

OMG, we had a stopover in Shanghai last year when visiting NZ and, as usual, we forgot our toothpaste home and bought some locally. Eughhh...not sure if the flavour was called "toxic spearmint" but tasted VERY strange.:exit

Then started hearing of Chinese toxicity scandals and have avoided Chinese products ever since, which is a real shame as my assistant, who's from China, always brings me green tea grown in China. :uhoh

In any case I try to avoid all pesticides and weird chemicals (parabens etc) in cosmetics etc. For babies especially I would try to be as natural as possible.

[Nick88]

I enjoy listening to podcasts, especially ones on economics, when I work or drive. The website I get them from is called Econtalk, they are free and are excellent listening.

Recently they produced one on the economics of buying locally, you can download it from here

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/04/boudreaux_on_th.html

It is well worth listening to on the way to work, or walking the dog, or whatever. I recommend most of the material found on this site, I look forward to new ones coming out every Monday.

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

I noticed a woman in New World the other day. She was picking up product after product from the shelf, looking at it then angrily chucking back on the shelf proclaiming 'made in bl**dy China'

I have to confess I hadn't really thought too much about it until then. Interesting subject. Haven't formed a cohesive view of my own about it yet though, so another fence sitter here, for the momnent at least.

[James 1077]

I generally don't mind where things come from and don't look too hard. Although I do try not to buy anything French if there is a decent alternative.

As for China I don't have an opinion one way or t'other. In general locally made is good but then so is providing jobs to the third world and thus allowing them to work their way out of poverty.

As ever swings and roudabouts.

[nippa&pippa]

I noticed a woman in New World the other day. She was picking up product after product from the shelf, looking at it then angrily chucking back on the shelf proclaiming 'made in bl**dy China'


Glad I am not only nutcase do that :o "got egg in it, no good" "got milk it it, no good" as well as "made in china, no good" (:o my son now copied me!!)

[BigBen]

Follow on from other thread about baby wipes, about lots of products now are "Made in China"
How do you feel about it?
Do you buy them or try your best to avoid it? etc...

NZ government is so “stupid”; they signed a free trade agreement with China! More and more "Made in China" are coming. I don’t like people blame Chinese product while they are pretty much enjoying the low prize goods. “Made in China” is coming to your life, live with it mate! Or Try not to eat or use them. As I’m from china, I hate this type of question, people are not thinking why these product are not safe, because the manufacturers are using cheap materials, why they are using them, because they are told so, or they are not paid enough to use better ones, and the people who should be responsible is the one who built the factory in China, and he might be your own people! Wake up! Blame “Made in China” will not make your life better at all. Go and put pressure on NZ government, ask them to not import, and build factory in China, see what they say!:cheers:cheers

[chocolate cake]

I generally don't mind where things come from and don't look too hard. Although I do try not to buy anything French if there is a decent alternative.

As for China I don't have an opinion one way or t'other. In general locally made is good but then so is providing jobs to the third world and thus allowing them to work their way out of poverty.

As ever swings and roudabouts.

Yes, I used to avoid buying french wine in the UK. Can't say it's too difficult to avoid buying french out in NZ though.

I'd guess it would be pretty much impossible to buying something made in china though.

[JandM]

I do try not to buy anything FrenchWhy?

[Nick88]

Why?

A couple of images come to mind. One is of trucks full of live lambs burning on a French dock, and the other is an exploding boat (with a big rainbow painted on the side).

[James 1077]

Why?

And another is travelling all the way down to the South Pacific to do some, perfectly safe, nuclear bomb testing.

If it is so safe then do it under Paris not on the other side of the world.

But yes, the main one is due to performing an act of war on New Zealand soil when they sunk the Rainbow Warrior.

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

...and Marcel Marseau.

Being trapped in an invisible box was funny for about 5 seconds, get over it man! :laugh

actually I think he's dead now?

Yup, Wikipedia confirm he died March 2007. Wonder if was buried in an invisible box??

[calixfornia]

This is a great topic, because a lot of people think about this question, and a lot of people don't give it a second thought.
Here's my two cents:

There are many reasons not to buy from China (but not JUST China either):
safety concerns (lead or chemicals levels etc)
environmental concerns (chemicals, pesticides, short-sided production etc)
sweatshops (children, exploitation, poor conditions etc)

Many people are able to 'look the other way' and buy the things despite knowing the above, and many try to convince themselves that they are ignorant of the above, or they think the above is not a big enough deal to dissuade them from buying that oven mitt that is their favorite color and is only $2.

But cheap goods come at a price. Is it good for the Chinese to depend on other countries buying cheap, 'disposable' goods (many things of which we don't need) to quickly inflate their own economy? Meanwhile they are poisoning their own environment. If we don't, for example, make circuitboards in the US because they are too toxic to produce (but we let China do it) then shouldn't we rethink the way we produce these toxic components instead of having a poor country who is willing to do it? If the tilapia farmers in China have to put illegal chemicals to help the tilapia survive in toxic waters, then do we want to eat that tilapia, and do the Chinese want to ruin their water supplies?

The answer for them is the same for us: locally produced goods, sustainably produced. This is the only way that we are not going to trash every last square inch of god's green earth to exploit the last drop of resource. Does it make sense to buy something that must be shipped 1000 miles, when it could be made locally and increase your local economy?

That's why I don't buy made in China unless it's the only option. I like the price of cheaply made goods, as I am a starving artist, but if I need something, first I go for a used one, and if that isn't feasible I will try for a local version. If it doesn't exist or I can't afford it, I ask myself if I really need it, and then if I must I will buy an imported product.

As for clothing, I find myself repulsed by the sea of sewn cloth in a department store. It's made to last only a season and then more come in to fill the racks again. Is this practice of disposal and trends manufactured to sell clothing season after season when the customer's closet is already full of functional clothing? Yes, and it happens without many people even thinking about it.

But I think about it. I make unique handmade clothing for a living and it's not an easy job and I pour my sweat and love into it, and every piece I make, I hope that the customer who enjoys it till it's in tatters. The Cambodian factory worker is not getting the profits when you buy a pair of jeans that she toils to sew. But buying local and/or handmade, you know you are giving your money to those who produced the goods, not the owner of a corporation.

I hope this gives some food for thought. It's a topic I realize has many sides so there's just one more :) I hope I don't sound too preachy, I'm simply passionate about this issue because it affects everyone, and directly affects my work (and probably yours to, because of the economy link).

To me the answer is to help grow the local economy and increase sustainability by buying local. Thank you for reading my huge post :o

[Moorf]

...and Marcel Marseau.

Being trapped in an invisible box was funny for about 5 seconds, get over it man! :laugh

actually I think he's dead now?

Yup, Wikipedia confirm he died March 2007. Wonder if was buried in an invisible box??

:laugh:laugh that was a 'tea on screen' moment!!

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

that was a 'tea on screen' moment!!

Hope I didn't break your new laptop!

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

I hope this gives some food for thought.

Absolutely, and thanks for putting the thread back on track, please forgive my finding humour in almost everything that ever happens :roll(although, for once I don't think i was me that headed this one off at the pass).

This is a genuinely worthwhile and intersing discussion.

[calixfornia]

Oops, I didn't realize I brought the thread back on topic! Sorry :D

[James 1077]

In some ways I agree about locally produced but in others I don't.

If a country is poor then it needs to sell things to richer countries in order to make itself, and its inhabitants, richer within a reasonable time-frame. If it can't sell anything to anybody else then it will never get any richer and could get poorer if it has to import. Therefore the only way in which its inhabitants can survive is through overseas aid and they can only get richer relative to one another (ie person a makes $10,000 but person b loses $10,000).

And importing things from overseas isn't always more efficient than locally made - for example roses grown in the UK use up more energy than growing them in Kenya and shipping them to the UK (although there is a question on necessity there!).

Furthermore making lots of things in huge factories is generally more efficient than making the same amount of stuff in lots of little factories.

However locally made provides jobs to the local population and ensures that wealth stays in your country.

I do think that too many people mix up the ideas of locally made and sustainably produced as well. Just because something is made locally doesn't mean that it is going to last longer, produce less waste and is more needed. A crap t-shirt would be a crap t-shirt regardless of whether it was made in NZ or China.

And further to that there is a question of what is local? Does importing a load of steel and making a fridge in New Zealand make it locally produced? What about exporting a leg of lamb to the UK where it is made into a curry by Bangladeshis?

In general the best bet sustainably is to buy good quality, second hand goods. However this doesn't help build an economy - it merely redistributes wealth.

Your best bet economically is to NOT buy good quality goods made, in a sustainable low impact way with your own locally produced materials in your own country as these can then be exported and thus increase the overall wealth of your country while ensuring that your country remains a place in which you want to live.

The worst thing to do is buy badly produced rubbish that isn't really necessary and is made by children in a highly polluted sweatshop in a foreign country that is owned by a 1st world head-quartered multi-national corporation as this makes the world a worse place, exports money overseas but not to where it is needed, and encourages waste.

As always compromises need to be made in some places as the world is never black or white!

[JandM]

Thanks for the explanations about not buying French.

However, the entire population of any country isn't necessarily of the same mind as its politicians, bureaucrats and extreme activists. (Remember what a big effect the anti-war protests didn't have on Blair and Bush?) Way-out example: upon landing at AKL, should we go outside and punch the nose of the first Kiwi passer-by, to relieve our feelings at the length of time it's taken us to persuade NZIS to allow us to be there? There was/is huge opposition within France, from decent ordinary people, to the same actions complained of here.

[Sam B]

The main reason I try not to buy from China is because of the huge environmental impact of the rapid growth of their manufacturing industries. It really frightens me.

[peebles16]

I totally agree SamB but do find it much harder being in NZ not buying from China than I did in the UK :( Have to say have bought stuff from China and felt uncomfortable about it but there either isn't an alternative product or it's just too expensive...

Karenx

[James 1077]

However, the entire population of any country isn't necessarily of the same mind as its politicians, bureaucrats and extreme activists.

I've got no issues with the French (in fact my uncle is French) - just the government. Not buying French produce is my way of showing my dissatisfaction with the government as it reduces the country's exports and thus their income.

When I'm in France I will happily buy wine direct from the vineyard as I know that there is no way that my cash is ever going to the government! :)

[james the mechanic]

When I'm in France I will happily buy wine direct from the vineyard as I know that there is no way that my cash is ever going to the government!:)

Tax? :confused:

[James 1077]

Tax? :confused:

You really think that a French winemaker is going to take my cash and give any of it to the Government in tax?

Or are they simply going to stick it in their pockets and "forget about it"? :laugh

[migratory birds]

I have grave concerns about the mistreatment of workers and utter neglect of impact of industrial production on the environment. Many waterways are being poisoned, cancer rates are skyrocketing.

www.pbs.org/kqed/chinainside/pdf/pbschina-ep3.pdf

I am becoming much more aware of where goods are made that I purchase and am considering personally boycotting purchasing all new goods made in China...which would be no small task (I've been working on eliminating the use of plastic bags in the last few weeks - and that has also not been easy).

Recently was trying to decide between Birkenstocks and the wildly popular/sturdy/comfortable Keen sandals...the clincher for me was looking at the box to see where they were made. Keen's in China, Birkies in Germany. I got the Birkies.

[james the mechanic]

You really think that a French winemaker is going to take my cash and give any of it to the Government in tax?

Or are they simply going to stick it in their pockets and "forget about it"? :laugh

When I'm in France I will happily buy wine direct from the vineyard as I know that there is no way that my cash is ever going to the government!

He then spends that cash in France on cigarettes and petrol and thus contributes to the economic wealth of the country, thanks in part to you.

In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.:laugh