[bevsere]

Hi guys.

I would be very pleased to read about aspirations, experiences or simply comments and facts from any plumbers & gasfitters either still in the UK or already out in NZ.

My husband is currently plumbing here in Nelson. There is little gas work here and no reticulated supply. Solar is his specialised subject. I woz an accountant in a previous life.No more, thank goodness. We don't have children.
His rate of pay is $21 per hour and $1 tool allowance.
The plumbing and gasfitting trade here, in practice, is quite different from the UK we have found, as are some of the attitudes.
Phil has just sat the PGDB plumbing registration exam. Has anyone else just been through this ?
What did you think of the standard of the exam ....Autopsy table question springs to mind.
Did you enjoy the mathematical equations .. have you EVER used them in day to day working practice?
How have you found the PGDB to be with regard to help and information.
Likewise your employer.
Does anyone have any actual hard facts regarding the illusive, mysterious , practical asessment requirements. Rumour is three weeks unpaid for a block practical course for plumbing. Same - one week for Gas. Maybe Wellington or Auckland.
Can anyone see themselves being able to go self employed in a few years time, after all the red tape, practical assessments, registration exams and craftsman exams have been completed to PGDB satisfaction?
How are you affording all the fees?


Here are some of the fun aspects we have experienced to date.

PGDB do not answer emails or give helpful information.
PGDB regard a dyslexic as 'handicapped'.
NZ plumbing trade lead the world and are superior craftsmen, accepted worldwide..
Kiwi plumbers 'Do it all'.. UK plumbers dont know zip...
Why use a fitting , when you can braze a joint which breaks the Oz standards 3500.
No overflows..
A commitment to hide all pipes , no matter how inaccessible.
White spiders under houses.
Drains .

This is a genuine post.. with genuine interest.
Our own lives are bound up completely with this NZ trade , its red tape , attitudes and pay scale.
Having been in Nelson now since last June, we have some thinking to do!
Would be pleased to hear from others .

thanks

Bevs

[chrissie]

Hmmm....a few deep breaths might be recommended...

Attitudes are definitely different here...sometimes that can be refreshing but sometimes it can be just downright frustrating!! There are always pro's and con's...I guess its just a case of weighing up one against the other!

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Danpoll]

Its interesting that I will be starting off on $17 per hour as a fibrous plasterer and plumbers are on the earlys 20's its nice to be earning what you boys are on for a change, by the looks of it it seems to be a blanket price for all trades and crafts.

would be intresting to see what those chippies are on.


Dan

[veronica]

I still can't get my head around the fact that the going rate for tradesmen is around the $40 to $50 an hour and what you guys are actually getting. And thats from phoning around for quotes etc. I think you guys need to go self employed as soon as possible. An English brickie we met in Chch was earning between $2,000 and $3,000 a week contracting. And if you want a plumber or sparkie you have to book at least a week in advance. Can't offer anything on the plumbing trades thing except that son in law designs plumbing stuff and is now working for a well known NZ supplier and he reckons that the methods and materials they use in NZ actually are better than the ones in the UK. (with the exception of the absence of the overflow)

[Iain & Liz]

Hi Bev,

As you may or may not have read I am A Plumber, not a gasfitter though.

I work for a well established plumbing maintenance company in Christchurch. As for the PGDB I had no real problems with them, I found one particular women there who I would always ask to speak to, and she was really helpful, although I have not sat the exam and nor will i now. I have been working on a limited license since we have been here. They do have some brilliant systems here, for example the secura pipe work and square drive screwsl are a brilliant idea ( taking a pot back to england)

As I said I will not be sitting the exam, but a couple of guys at work who have been here about a year, recently failed it! they are both good tradesman, and said it had some very strange questions!! They are now planning to go to college in the evenings for next Novembers exam.

As for getting under houses it is the most awful thing I have ever had to do in my job, for those unaware, somewhere in your house, under the fridge or in a wardrobe there will be an access hole probably about 14" - 20" square. And then as you said once under the house there are spiders galore, there is usually about 15"- 20" of crawling/dragging room on a good one they get tighter!! Then you practically lay under the pipes whilst you cut in to them.

Thats why the wages are bad so you can't afford lifes luxuries to get fat on!

I think I know what you mean about the attitudes, pm me and we can discuss further if you like. Sorry to start moaning again folks!!

I personally, like your husband have found good and bad things about plumbing in NZ.

Veronica the company charges $55ish an hour because that is the going rate, what we are paid is what is left after the boss has paid the bills and taken out his wages!

Iain :nice1

[veronica]

I know where the money is going Ian, just think that the proportion that the boss takes is over the top.

[Iain & Liz]

sorry veronica,

I have just read that last post back, I didn't mean to sound condescending!

Iain

[veronica]

Didn't think you were. you just sounded a bit weary.

[jo b]

Hmmm....a few deep breaths might be recommended...

Attitudes are definitely different here...sometimes that can be refreshing but sometimes it can be just downright frustrating!! There are always pro's and con's...I guess its just a case of weighing up one against the other!

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Hey you can say that again!!

(sorry my humour as it was posted 3 times)

Jo

[chrissie]

Yes...I don't know what happened there!! I think my computer's got a mind of its own!!! :oops:

[veronica]

Chrissie trigger finger. :roll: :laugh

[bevsere]

A migrant plumber may not just go self-employed.

1] First step is the limited license, which you must have ,to work legally with plumbing or gas.
Even then , you will be on a lower rate of pay, and must be supervised by a Registered Craftsman with all your work being inspected and signed off.
[ok plumbing guys - we know thats not what happens in practice and why]

2] Take & pass the annual registration exams. UK qualification assessment before this is allowed by PGDB....IF UK quals not acceptable to PGDB also sit and pass National exams.

3] Sit practical assessments.Full-time at a training provider, 3 wks plumbing , 1wk gas. [however no-one seems to have settled on what exactly this will entail for the migrant] For us it means one month away in Wellington - unpaid , plus funding the course and accom. etc.

4] Work within your trade as a Registered plumber etc. for two years.

5] Following two years, sit your Master Craftsman exam and any further practical assessments.

6] Bingo :nice1 . Three /Four years on you are now a Master Craftsman Kiwi style and are allowed to legally become self-employed in NZ..... if you have survived financially - that is. ;)

This does not apply to those with the means to set up a plumbing business , as opposed to self employment , and employ said Master and Registered craftsmen.

DanPoll
We know another plumber up here in Nelson who is on $17 per hour plus 50 cents tool allowance. Went for another job and got offered $15 per hour.
When we were job hunting the rate did vary. In Hastings Phil was offered just $17 per hour.
A company in Wanaka offered him $22 plus tool allowance, but it was just too expensive to live there at all.
We didn't get to Christchurch or Dunners, cos we settled on the Nelson job offer.

Couple of chippies we know of here are on $15 per hour.. though Phil met one on site that was $17 per hour.. thats good for a chippy. Chippies do seem to be the worst paid here, unless they go on to be builders themselves.

Iain

THe company Phil works for ,Days, has just been bought by a Christchurch Maintenance company. The new owners are Geoff something or other!. We have hopes for these new owners.

We know a bloke who was in Tauranga [ now in the UK again] who was bitten by a spider whilst under the house and ended up in hospital for a couple of weeks. Those hatches are a bit of a joke eh?

Phil sat the exam and got 59%. We have sent in the paper for reconsideration. Yet more money forked out. Going to evening college is a great way to get your hands on the necessary info. re the exam.Unfortunately, up here, the nearest place for this is Wellington. Phil did go away on a refresher two day course I found, in Auckland.

We do have several exam questions and answers, which I would copy and send to anyone interested. Likewise the refresher course info.

Re attitudes... well , lets just say , not what one , as adults, would have expected. Will PM you on this as suggested.

Anyone else in trades out there at all????????

[john & becky]

Bev,
re this very old thread, was wondering if the best thing to do then (as a qualified plumber in the uk) is to come over on the points gained by my qualification and then do something completely different? Sounds to me like i'd prefer to earn 2 or 3 dollars less and be a postie.
Any thoughts?

[Bubbles]

Very good point John. That exact thought had crossed my mind more than once. I still can't get my head around the fact that NZ make it so difficult for skilled people to live and work there,ie: proving quals' and experience, then only certain certification is good enough. Eventually, when you are issued with PR, and arrive in NZ you can basically do what you want to, or afford to.
I'm a Fitter/toolmaker by trade + have electrical installation certs aswell ( UK ), but once we land in NZ I could do as I please with regard to work. I'm not knocking it, but hey, it don't make sense. ???

John

[Neil,Emma & kids]

:( im a plumber,i will be in auckland april,

OMG what have i done :uhoh

anyone with questions,please pm them me


please


please


my hairs turning grey as i post :eek:

[willsken]

Is it difficult for all trademen to go self employed? Or is it more difficult for plummers/gas fitters? If this is a daft question, sorry! :roll

[Charlosparky]

I'm hoping to get to NZ by August- do electricians have to go under the floor too? And did I hear someons say..................:eek:SPIDERS! :eek:

Oh my god i wanna be a postie too! :roll

[john & becky]

:yes we appear to have made a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig decision over whether we should just go for it tonight. (admittedley under the influence) we have decided to go for it. what have we got to lose eh??????????

b*****ks.............................you only get :raebanana one shot

[PaulandHelen]

Great!! i got pr approved today and this is the first thread i have read today regarding plumbing, what grim reading. i have been self employed doing plumbing and heating for some years in blighty and this doesn't make me feel hopeful.
post office here i come!!!!
P+H

[bevsere]

Hi all.

Just had a quick peek in here and there you all are .

Don't be put off - Just be prepared for what's involved.

As I previously stated, you may not just become Self-Employed here in NZ. My husband was also self-employed for many years. He has been qualified as a plumber/gasfitter for 30 years.

Your plumbing qualifications are assessed by the PGDB of New Zealand ONLY to ascertain whether or not they feel you can sit their registration exams . In order to be eligible re. plumbing, your UK quals. must be to a City and Guilds advanced or an NVQ 4 or above. you must also have valid work experience.
With regard to gasfitting - same as above plus you must be CORGI registered.

The registration exams are what the final year apprentices take after they finalise their apprenticeships and receive their National Certificate.
Until you pass the registration exams you will not be regarded as 'qualified' by the Plumbing Board here.

Once you have sat and passed the registration exams, which happen once a year in November, you are a New Zealand Registered plumber. Your work will no longer have to be signed off/commissioned .

If you hope to become Self-employed here, there are a further two exams. At present the PGDB of NZ require you to wait a further two years before you can sit these exams.
There are two papers to sit. One is a business paper, The other is another plumbing exam paper.

With all the above exams , you also have to take assessments of practical workmanship and pass them


Don't despair & don't give up. New Zealand is a good place to live. You just have to beat that wretched PGDB at their own game by being prepared and passing the archaic exams. Budget for the costs & time involved.

An update on my severely dyslexic husband and the trade exams:-

Well - despite the attitude of the PGDB towards dyslexia, my husband sat both the gas and plumbing exams again this year.
We collated together all the books, old exam papers and information we could to help with revision and NZ plumbing/gasfitting exam technique .
We found a two day course and sent him on it.

He passed both exams with good marks !

If my dyslexic husband can do it - so can you all.

Any help I can give to you , please PM me.
I have put together a reading list. All of the items on that list were used extensively to get us through those exam questions.

I also have copies of old exam questions and answers.

[Gary & Helen]

Hi Bev,
Iam having trouble getting the PGDB to send me my part registration, which is holding up our visas. I would be grateful of the past papers , as I have the same trouble as your husband. We hope to be in auckland by sept just in time to register for the exam!! I have no information on the exam they expect me to sit in nov.
Thanks Gary & Helen

[bevsere]

Hi Gary and Helen.

I have sent you a quick PM

If what you are waiting for is the results of the PGDB assessment of your UK plumbing/gasfitting qualifications, work exp. etc, then all you can do is keep on chasing them.
What you need is a letter which states that your quals/work exp and UK licenses are considered good enough to be allowed to sit the PGDB reg. exams & take practical assessments.
This assessment is acceptable to the NZIS as proof that your quals meet the standard required under a skilled migrant category for either a PR application or for a work visa.
The PGDB are quite capable of emailing a copy of this letter over to you.

That is not a part-registration but simply an assessment of the standard of your UK quals and work exp etc.

If , however, you have an NZ job offer within the plumbing/gasfitting trade then perhaps what you are waiting for is your Limited Licnece to allow you to legally work within the trade. In that case, get your NZ employer to put the squeeze on the PGDB.
Again the PGDB can email over a copy of the letter which would have your Limited License number on it. That would satisfy NZIS.
Double check with this, that your NZ employer has actually filled in his part of the Limited License application.


Perhaps update me on exactly you are with the whole process.

Job Offer ?
PGDB qual and work exp assessment application ?
Limited License application ?

NZIS - a work visa using skilled migrant category ?
- wanting to complete and submit EOI for PR?

A further thought ---

Two months is not much time at all to prepare for the 9192 plumbing registration exam. I will send some examples of the types of questions you can expect .

[dave robbo]

ow long is the time scale for starting up on your own as a plumber/gas fitter? has anyone got anything possitive to say about the process? can you live on $50,000 a year with no mortgage?

[jo-and-jeff]

After reading this thread, I can see why there is a problem (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10391043).

This is just insane. It's important to have standards, but it sounds to me as though the exams are being used by the experienced plumbers who write them as a way to haze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazing) new plumbers... sort of the same way that established doctors insist that residents (junior doctors) should have to work 90-120 hours a week, just because they had to when they were residents (the excuse being given that they won't see enough cases to become properly trained if they actually work reasonable hours).

It's certainly a good way for those experienced plumbers to ensure that their ability to charge high fees remains intact, no?

Perhaps this little shakeup will precipitate a major change in the plumbing certification system here...

[dave robbo]

A migrant plumber may not just go self-employed.

1] First step is the limited license, which you must have ,to work legally with plumbing or gas.
Even then , you will be on a lower rate of pay, and must be supervised by a Registered Craftsman with all your work being inspected and signed off.
[ok plumbing guys - we know thats not what happens in practice and why]

2] Take & pass the annual registration exams. UK qualification assessment before this is allowed by PGDB....IF UK quals not acceptable to PGDB also sit and pass National exams.

3] Sit practical assessments.Full-time at a training provider, 3 wks plumbing , 1wk gas. [however no-one seems to have settled on what exactly this will entail for the migrant] For us it means one month away in Wellington - unpaid , plus funding the course and accom. etc.

4] Work within your trade as a Registered plumber etc. for two years.

5] Following two years, sit your Master Craftsman exam and any further practical assessments.

6] Bingo :nice1 . Three /Four years on you are now a Master Craftsman Kiwi style and are allowed to legally become self-employed in NZ..... if you have survived financially - that is. ;)

This does not apply to those with the means to set up a plumbing business , as opposed to self employment , and employ said Master and Registered craftsmen.

DanPoll
We know another plumber up here in Nelson who is on $17 per hour plus 50 cents tool allowance. Went for another job and got offered $15 per hour.
When we were job hunting the rate did vary. In Hastings Phil was offered just $17 per hour.
A company in Wanaka offered him $22 plus tool allowance, but it was just too expensive to live there at all.
We didn't get to Christchurch or Dunners, cos we settled on the Nelson job offer.

Couple of chippies we know of here are on $15 per hour.. though Phil met one on site that was $17 per hour.. thats good for a chippy. Chippies do seem to be the worst paid here, unless they go on to be builders themselves.

Iain

THe company Phil works for ,Days, has just been bought by a Christchurch Maintenance company. The new owners are Geoff something or other!. We have hopes for these new owners.

We know a bloke who was in Tauranga [ now in the UK again] who was bitten by a spider whilst under the house and ended up in hospital for a couple of weeks. Those hatches are a bit of a joke eh?

Phil sat the exam and got 59%. We have sent in the paper for reconsideration. Yet more money forked out. Going to evening college is a great way to get your hands on the necessary info. re the exam.Unfortunately, up here, the nearest place for this is Wellington. Phil did go away on a refresher two day course I found, in Auckland.

We do have several exam questions and answers, which I would copy and send to anyone interested. Likewise the refresher course info.

Re attitudes... well , lets just say , not what one , as adults, would have expected. Will PM you on this as suggested.

Anyone else in trades out there at all????????
lain if you could please send info on refresher course also a sample of questions and answers. thanks dave.

[bevsere]

Hi there .
We've been away visiting dear old Blighty, so I didn't see these posts until just now. I do tend to trawl through the migrant forums on the look out for plumbers and gasfitters looking for information.
It is me that has details of old exam papers and the refresher course.
If you are still interested , send me a PM.

Brand new to the PGDB website are the past two years exam papers which may be downloaded for free. I do have further examples of the types of Q&A you might expect though.
What you most need to become a self-employed plumber and/or gasfitter is patience and perseverance at the present time.
It could be that the new Board members will eventually look at the registration process for overseas migrants. As far as I am aware that is not on their agenda right now.

Robbo, below is the time-scale as it now stands.

Work for an NZ plumber/gasfitter as an employee under a PGDB Limited Licence when you first arrive in NZ.

Sit the Registration exams the first November and gain a pass over 60%.
The following year sit the Common business paper and the year after that you will be allowed to sit the Craftsman exams. Only after you pass these are you legally allowed to be self-employed. The shortest time possible that I can see is two and a half years.

I know that the papers stated that the Board had been sacked. Thing is the Board members are rotated anyway. I think they serve three years before a new Board is elected.
Applications to apply were sent out months back.
The issues are really about trade training of NZ apprentices with the ITOs in the red corner [ responsible for turning out enough new plumbers to ease the chronic shortage] and the PGDB [ responsible to Health and Safety and the consumer] in the blue corner. There was a breakdown in the relationship between the two and the Master Plumbers Assn at least a year ago, if not more. Of course, its also about money.


but it sounds to me as though the exams are being used by the experienced plumbers who write them as a way to haze new plumbers...

This is a reasonable take in a way.

One has to be hopeful that the entire registration program will be shaken up. However, there is a need to ensure that the apprentice plumbers coming through the NZ ITOs and passing the National Certificate are meeting the ANZRA standards. The trade has been far too insular and precious about its standards, workmanship and methods in past years. It needs to move forward with the times.

As migrants , we have to hope that they will include a route to registration specifically for the overseas migrant plumber/gasfitter. At present they are required to go down the tedious, long-winded route that final year NZ apprentices are required to walk. Many fall by the wayside and the NZ Dept of Labour report there there have been successive years where they have lost more migrant plumbers than they have gained.

Having said all that, NZ is a great place to live once you are here. For some all the effort seems worth it.

BTW - If you are married with a couple of kids & no mortgage, I would think you will be able to manage on $50K.

Have you a job offer at $25 per hour then , out of interest ?

[Ashby]

So the ONLY way for a master plumber from the US, who has 10+ years experience--and currently owns a company employing 10 apprentice and journeyman plumbers who he oversees--to become licensed there is to take one exam, wait a year, take another exam and wait a year and take another exam?
If they are on the same path as an apprentice (read: starting over) then why does NZIS want someone with Level 4 training/skills and experience??????
Seriously, if you have to start over completely--why do you need any background in the trade?
This may well curb our enthusiasm for moving.

[bevsere]

You do not start completely over. You are not asked to do an apprenticeship.

It is not the same path as NZ apprentices. Apprentices undergo the usual 4 years time served type training plus on-going assessments and block courses. Once they have completed that and gained the NZ National Certificate, they can then sit the PGDB registration exams. They wait two years before being allowed to sit Craftsman papers.

Plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying are stand alone skills in Nz and each has its own set of exams.

Any overseas plumber has to go the same route towards becoming NZ registered. It doesn't matter how qualified you feel you are or how many decades of work experience. The overseas qualifications will only be part-way recognised.

My husband was extremely well qualified with 30 years experience.

You have your overseas quals assessed by the www.pgdb.co.nz.

If it is a positive outcome then they will allow you to sit their registration exam which happens twice a year.

A pass in that and maybe a practical assessment means you are a registered NZ plumber.

It does not mean you can become self-employed .

For that you must sit a further 2 exams one of which is a business paper.

If the PGDB feels your qualifications and work experience are not comparable to the NZ ones and are not quite the ANZRA standard, they they may require one undergoes further training before even sitting registration exams.

Yes. Against many of the trades and other skills listed, it is a bit tough but thats how it is. The PGDB comes under Health and Safety. ANZRA standards have to be satisfied.

To apply to migrate under the skilled migrant category, NZIS requires proof that the would-be migrant is skilled as claimed. If you state you are a plumber wanting to do a plumbers job then they want proof you are already a plumber.
NZIS do not concern themselves with what it takes to become NZ registered in the plumbing trade. They would concern themselves however,that you had the appropriate licence if you had a job offer. They would want to see proof of your PGDB limited licence.