[CJ22]

After watching the movie Crooked Earth last night, I wondered if there were many no-go areas in NZ? I don't mean rough parts of town, I'm thinking more like reserves, military areas etc. that a hiker could possibly stray into by mistake. What about Maori-only areas?

[Kiwi-In-Texas]

Maori-only areas!!!!!....Don't know what you mean by that. I am a New Zealand born citizen and have never heard of Maori-only areas anywhere in New Zealand.

[mgbridges]

After watching the movie Crooked Earth last night, I wondered if there were many no-go areas in NZ? I don't mean rough parts of town, I'm thinking more like reserves, military areas etc. that a hiker could possibly stray into by mistake. What about Maori-only areas?

Suzanne - I think CJ is asking more from a religious/culturally sensitive point of view rather than a discriminatory point of view, well thats how I read it anyway.

CJ - there probably are reserves/military places that the average person can't gain access to but to be honest I don't know of any. However we haven't done a huge amount of exploring yet as we haven't been here long enough.

In terms of Maori-only areas I'm not sure what the 'rules' are in terms of Pakehoa (sp?) going onto/into the marae (sp?) uninvited. I've also wondered about the cultural 'rules' for Maori burial grounds (sorry can't remember Maori word). Its an area I've been meaning to educate myself about and your question is a timely reminder for me to do some reading.

Anneliese

[CJ22]

Yeah, I just meant land-reserves owned by Maoris or some such. I thought there were some settlements, places which are essentially tribally owned private property. I on't know enough to ask the right question obviously :)

[Familyofmonkeys]

After watching the movie Crooked Earth last night, I wondered if there were many no-go areas in NZ? I don't mean rough parts of town, I'm thinking more like reserves, military areas etc. that a hiker could possibly stray into by mistake. What about Maori-only areas?

There are certainly some military areas that are no go....one next to Shakespeare Regional Park on Whangaparaoa peninsula, one in Birkenhead and Hobsonville, part of Rangipo desert etc. Mind you they are for the most part well signposted....as long as you spot the signs as you travel past that is :exit

[M-Squared]

When driving on the Desert Road you'll see a few signs saying that if you absolutely have to stop, do not get out of your car. Live ammo practice range and all that... fun! :D

[dharder]

Apart from military and other restricted areas, I get the impression that pretty much everything is private land, and they don't do the 'Public Footpath' thing here. Not sure if that is what you meant? When we did a few longer walks last Christmas on the Coromandel, I seem to remember the organisers always checked who owned the land and asked permission beforehand if it was okay to walk across it with a large group of people (and in some instances asked for permission to park there, too).

That is not for DOC land with walkways and stuff, of course, but pretty much everything else.

Daniela

[joeandsacha]

On my first trip to NZ many years ago as a backpacker, a friend and I went fishing on a random river we found close to Rotorua. After an hour or so, a very large Maori came out of a house opposite, holding a shotgun and shouted to us "Oi - you can't fish here - this is Maori land!"

Since then, I've always checked first!

[chocolate cake]

Apart from military and other restricted areas, I get the impression that pretty much everything is private land, and they don't do the 'Public Footpath' thing here. Not sure if that is what you meant? When we did a few longer walks last Christmas on the Coromandel, I seem to remember the organisers always checked who owned the land and asked permission beforehand if it was okay to walk across it with a large group of people (and in some instances asked for permission to park there, too).

That is not for DOC land with walkways and stuff, of course, but pretty much everything else.

Daniela

I've noticed the same re: access in the short time I've been here, loads of 'private no access' signs. It's disappointing when used to the excellent rights of way in England and Wales, and particularly Scotland.

Many of the walks I've researched seem to say, check with xxx for access.
It's strange considering NZ is a large area and sparsley populated.

[Alan]

Just for balance, there is no access to and along 98% of the rivers in England and Wales.

[CJ22]

Just for balance, there is no access to and along 98% of the rivers in England and Wales.

Hmmm, source?

[CJ22]

This is a bit disappointing, I'd had visions of just picking a direction and starting walking. It seems crazy in such a sparsely populated country that so little of it is inaccessible. I know the context is different, with it's lack of ancient byways etc., but they do promote NZ on its wide-open vistas :)

[Alan]

Surprised you hey, yep the UK is not as free as you think..............

http://www.riversaccess.org/

Many water users have been campaigning for years without any luck, and many canoeists etc get attacked regularly by land owners.

[CJ22]

Ah I see, that's a reference to the water itself, not the banks. But the UK has it's canal network, which is all publicly open. And of course, the network of byways is second to none. The Severn Way runs the length of the longest river in the UK. You can walk across Shropshire without so much as crossing a road.

[IanW99]

This is a bit disappointing, I'd had visions of just picking a direction and starting walking. It seems crazy in such a sparsely populated country that so little of it is inaccessible. I know the context is different, with it's lack of ancient byways etc., but they do promote NZ on its wide-open vistas :)

Just like to point out than many people who visit NZ each year do exactly what you suggest and just head off into the wild, and unfortunately many of them are never seen again.

There are more than enough areas for you to walk in, should you wish to with many treks taking days to complete.

Ian

[dharder]

There are more than enough areas for you to walk in, should you wish to with many treks taking days to complete.

That is true. However, I was a tad disappointed to find on our holidays on the Coromandel that most access to the beaches is private land, and so we ended up traipsing along well used paths, (with rubbish on it), in groups of tourists carrying their beach stuff.

I'm not saying this is different in the UK, but it somehow didn't quite go with my expectations. And I felt it was a bit silly to have all that shoreline, and two little paths (I'm exaggerating now) to get to the beach.

There are lots of walkways, and I personally feel safer going along paths than just rambling around, so that is not an issue for me. But maybe something to be aware of.

Daniela

[boatieman]

Hi,

The footpath thing has been an issue for me. Being used to the relative freedom and accessibility footpaths in Cumbria.
I’ve not seen any bridleways either, so using the bike in the countryside is a bit of a non-starter, unless you want to cycle on a gravel road or even a main road.
There are great big spaces in NZ, which are just not as accessible as in UK. One would have thought that there would have been more free access or even a network of footpaths/bridleways.
Apparently you are allowed free access to DOC land. But they do not like you to stray from the path. In fact they advise against it.
Some Maori land is Tapu, e,g sacred so it’s obviously a good thing to respect this. But occasionally this is taken a bit too far, e.g in the Urewares (spelling) in eastland, the “people of the mist”, just don’t like incomers or tourists (although the coastal route is said to be okay). There are reports of damage to cars and people being held up, beaten up etc just for going into the bush for a walk.
I would suspect that the issue of access to inland waters is probably the same as England and Wales in that many rivers in NZ are not accessible as you will have to cross private land to get onto them, therefore will need permission. In Scotland there is a freer arrangement with access to both rivers and footpaths.
I agree with cj22, in that the lack of rights of way/ public footpaths is probably due to the fact that NZ has not developed a similar system, as NZ has not been around that long.

Boat

[JandM]

Sort of a development from the issues about where you can walk/cycle - where do people go hunting? I've often heard of people shooting for the pot, so do they have to know a landowner who will allow them to do this, or are there hunting reserves of some kind?

[benandclare]

Closer investigation might reveal " The paper roads" syndrome

http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/good_oil/06_paper_roads.htm

And also IMHO the Crown owns 20m either side of any watercourse and this is accessable by the public.

As regards DOC land when I enquired about camping in the Arthurs Pass park the reply was, " where ever you want"

Having experienced some of the wilder sides of NZ you do not want to wander off the path :nice1

This is a good site for Tramping

http://tramper.co.nz/?1474

[chocolate cake]

Closer investigation might reveal " The paper roads" syndrome

http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/good_oil/06_paper_roads.htm

And also IMHO the Crown owns 20m either side of any watercourse and this is accessable by the public.

As regards DOC land when I enquired about camping in the Arthurs Pass park the reply was, " where ever you want"

Having experienced some of the wilder sides of NZ you do not want to wander off the path :nice1


Sure there are many parts of bush walks where you wouldn't want to wander off the tracks, but that doesn't alter the fact that access in NZ isn't quite what is advertised.

Being used to the excellent right of way access in England & Wales (rivers not withstanding) it's more than a tad disappointing. I'm one for exploring, rather riding round mtn bike parks, and even wide forest roads in Hunua have no mountain bike signs, which I decided to ignore when I fitted in a long loop ride shortly after I arrived.

[benandclare]

but that doesn't alter the fact that access in NZ isn't quite what is advertised.

.


Is NZ advertised as having loads of public footpaths, bridleways etc etc?

IMHO the "Crown Jewels" as in spectacular scenery are all very easily accessible by road, proof of this can be fouind on the Mega photo thread and if you want to be alone in the countryside it's very easy to do so, well down here in the SI it is. We went on a well known track in Arthurs Pass and on the 2nd day walked 18kms without meeting a soul.....

[benandclare]

Sort of a development from the issues about where you can walk/cycle - where do people go hunting? I've often heard of people shooting for the pot, so do they have to know a landowner who will allow them to do this, or are there hunting reserves of some kind?

This is from the DOC site for hunting in National parks


Hunting and fishing
A hunting permit or fishing licence is required. Hunting permits
can be obtained from local DOC visitor centres or offices. Fishing
permits are available from Fish and Game New Zealand www.
fishandgame.org.nz. A separate licence is required for Lake Taupo.

[JandM]

Thanks for that.

[dusk]

thanks for those links benandclare :)

[CJ22]

IMHO the "Crown Jewels" as in spectacular scenery are all very easily accessible by road

Sure, but walkers only use roads as a last resort.

Anyway, I've just realised I have a copy of "Tramping New Zealand" sitting unread on the shelf. I'm sure it will have some accurate info.

I'm just hoping NZ isn't a country of 'wide open spaces upon which you will get shot at if you try to actually access it' :)

[benandclare]

Sure, but walkers only use roads as a last resort.



Absolutly, to get the full magnitude of the open spaces and mountains there is no other way than walking.............. There are no roads.........


http://www.google.co.nz/search?num=20&hl=en&q=hunters+shot&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryNZ

Alas getting shot at does happen , altho it's mainly fellow hunters, but something to bear in mind.

PS Dont think there are any bears in NZ :nice1

[Potato]

Sure there are many parts of bush walks where you wouldn't want to wander off the tracks, but that doesn't alter the fact that access in NZ isn't quite what is advertised.

Being used to the excellent right of way access in England & Wales (rivers not withstanding) it's more than a tad disappointing. I'm one for exploring, rather riding round mtn bike parks, and even wide forest roads in Hunua have no mountain bike signs, which I decided to ignore when I fitted in a long loop ride shortly after I arrived.

I don't know, I don't see how it can really be a dissapointment. The outdoors lover is much better catered for over here than in the UK.
I live in the capital city, and when I look North from my house I see mountains larger than anything anywhere in the UK. And they're completely open to me. When I look east I see rolling, bush covered hills which reach the height of England's highest "mountain". Looking south, I see the Cook Strait and touches of the wild south coast, populated by seals....which would take quite a trip to spot in the UK. Want to go out for a kayak? The harbour is my oyster.
The opportunities for "exploration" are enormous. Sure, at home, maybe I looked onto rolling green hills. But then what? More rolling green hills. Freely accessible- yes. But so what? I have so much more here that has equal access. The DOC system is brilliant.

IM(admitedly, not very humble)O.

[boatieman]

Hi,
Chocolate cake has It right. There simply is not the access that is advertised. There is no right to roam, no rights of way. Its all a case of the excellent NZ pr machine at work yet again. It okay if you dont really want to deviate from the highway to get that spectacular shot. But some of us like to get out of the norm and explore our own route.. not one dictate by DOC. There is simply not that freedom in NZ

[benandclare]

Hi,
Chocolate cake has It right. There simply is not the access that is advertised. There is no right to roam, no rights of way. Its all a case of the excellent NZ pr machine at work yet again. It okay if you dont really want to deviate from the highway to get that spectacular shot. But some of us like to get out of the norm and explore our own route.. not one dictate by DOC. There is simply not that freedom in NZ

Spoke to DOC this morning and within the National Parks you can go wherever you want, i.e. freedom to roam off the track. So lots to explore.
Also with good research and maps and by contacting landowners you can also plan other routes too whilst not in the Parks, I can spend hours pouring over maps. The landowners I've contacted have been fine to deal with.

I too like to plan my own routes and had planned to climb Mount Binser in Arthurs Pass park back in the summer and used the Binser saddle track as a walk in but soon realised that route wasnt possible as the bush was just too thick for Clare and I to penetrate. The other route I fancied using is too much for Clare so will wait till my daughter gets here at Xmas so we can "bag it" or to use Sir Ed's term " knock the B..... off" :nice1

[willsken]

Also with good research and maps and by contacting landowners you can also plan other routes too whilst not in the Parks, I can spend hours pouring over maps. The landowners I've contacted have been fine to deal with.


All the land owners I contacted about riding over their land were fine as well. None of them minded at all and if they were OK about a horse going over their land, I'm sure they'd be fine with walkers as well. :nice1

[Potato]

Hi,
Chocolate cake has It right. There simply is not the access that is advertised. There is no right to roam, no rights of way. Its all a case of the excellent NZ pr machine at work yet again. It okay if you dont really want to deviate from the highway to get that spectacular shot. But some of us like to get out of the norm and explore our own route.. not one dictate by DOC. There is simply not that freedom in NZ

This I believe is mostly nonsense.


"some of us like to get out of the norm and explore our own route"

A statement like this is betraying your ignorance, there are many back roads and gravel roads as opposed to highways, and in the national parks, you don't have to follow anything dictated to you by DOC. In all parks there are walking paths, tramping tracks, marked routes and unmarked routes. There are also old routes that you need to bush bash to get through, or you can go your own way. On marked routes you will likely be following snow poles and little else. On unmarked routes there is nothing beside the odd stone cairn or ribbon tied around a tree. If you pick up some NZ tramping magazines there will usually be an article by some intrepid people trying to rediscover an old route, or attempt a new route to a summit. Read about people who attempt Erewhon station to Harihari in a day. Dictated by DOC? I think not.
I cannot believe you do not know this, and believe that DOC dictates where you want to go. I think you should cease talking on this topic until you educate yourself properly as to the way things really are!

My feeling is that the "right to roam" has gone to our heads in the UK. We have a wonderful freedom there but to lose it in NZ is not a big deal. The UK is a very samey country, scenery wise. NZ is not like that, much of the best scenery is tied up in National Parks. Are you restricted in any way on these? Only on the Great Walks. And, if it's a choice between that restriction or going the way of the West Highland Way (you may aswell be walking along a highway), then I prefer DOC's style.
Yes, you cannot walk across any old farm you come across. That is not a real issue because these rarely represent the best of the landscapes in NZ....whereas in the UK they often do.

[boatieman]

Hi Potato,

Maybe you should go and speak to some Doc wardens. They are the guys that are on the ground. They have first hand knowledge of what you can do and can't do.

I think that you should realise that those establishling new paths in the national parks have to seek permission from DOC. They even have to make sure that DOC will agree to rescue them prior to setting off. You need premission to cross farm land as there are no footpaths.

Obviously you have never ridden a bike on a gravel road most of which are serrated.
I don't think you'd find it very enjoyable.

To say that the UK has samey country, you obviously have'nt been out much.
Maybe you should buy yourself a picture book about the British Isles. You may find that the Fens differ somewhat to Devon, or that The Lake District Differs from The Peak.

The right to roam has always been there in the form of public footpaths,these are often ancient rights of way, even the upland areas of Natioanl Trust land has been more or less accessible for quite a long time.

And actually you can walk off the west Highland way, whereas Doc won't let you deviate off the RouteBurn Tramp

I can't really understand why anyone would be happy to loose a bit of freedom as you are pleased to do with the restictions in NZ.

Just stay on your track potato, you can't see the bigger picture

[chocolate cake]

'The UK is a very samey country, scenery wise'


And that's also a nonsense statement, I don't how much you've explored the UK not very much judging by that comment. Some of the scenery in Western Scotland is good as any in the world, if it had the weather it would be packed in summer.

And even in England it's possible to get off the beaten track and away from civilization.

Back to NZ, indeed there's certainly some spectacular walks out there, particularly in the South Island, and I'm looking forward to doing 'em. That still doesn't alter the fact that so far in the Auckland and Coromandel areas where I've explored so far there seems to be alot of no go areas.
Bear in mind probably 25% of the population lives in the Auckalnd area, as that's where alot of the work is.

If you do some research you'll notice alot of Kiwis aren't too complementary about access too.

[craig1234564]

this is all interesting stuff as alot of people on here are probably thinking of moving to NZ for the freedom and outdoor lifestyle,
but as long as you can do what you want in the national parks then thats fine, especially as we are thinking of moving to the south island,

back in england i grew up living next to a national park and you could walk where you want and take a tent camp the night etc,
i cant see how this would be different in NZ?
do you have to stick with the official campsites or can you find a place for yourself in the NZ national parks?
who is to stop you when the country is so big with so little population??

[benandclare]

do you have to stick with the official campsites or can you find a place for yourself in the NZ national parks?
who is to stop you when the country is so big with so little population??


No , so long as you respect the usual rules of wild camping , this was us on the Binser saddle last summer


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o279/benandclare/20080202025.jpg

[craig1234564]

thanks ! thats the answer i hoped for, where is that by the way?

[benandclare]

thanks ! thats the answer i hoped for, where is that by the way?

In Arthurs Pass about 2 hrs from Christchurch :cheers