New Zealand - The 'I can't sell my house so I'm renting it instead' thread

Rusty

15th July 2008, 10:40 PM

I thought this would make an alternative to Hollands massive trying to sell thread and hopefully (if it catches on) help anyone looking at letting their house with tips and pitfalls to avoid.
There appears to be more movement towards renting as sales are so slow at the moment and it gives people like ourselves a chance to get on with our lives and move to NZ with our beautiful new visa's. Possibly putting selling off for a year or so and hoping the market picks up a bit.

To start it off then.
2 weeks ago we signed with 3 three letting agents as there is no difference in fee if you have 1 or 100 :D. We have been quoted between 8 and 10% for fully managed.
As of yesterday, we have had 2 interested parties look around and they both appear interested :nice1. So, already better than our attempts at selling in 5 months.
We did have a 3rd viewer who forgot to turn up, which ironically is 1 more than when selling.
Why are we looking to rent? Simple, to get out of limboland and realise our dream to move in September.

Join in if you want. Add your comments.

wwwdot

16th July 2008, 12:51 AM

Yep, we will be renting as well, which should be easy as we have a 2-bed apartment *fingers crossed*

How long does it usually take to get a tenant? We are flying to NZ December 13th and thought about asking the letting agents over around October. Is this leaving it too late?!

What time of year is best for getting in a tenant? I wonder if anyone would be willing to move in mid-December? Or Jan 1st?

Are you leaving any furniture/appliances? We are probably just leaving the built-in appliances (oven, dishwasher, washing machine) and buy a cheap fridge-freezer (as we're taking our expensive Siemens one to NZ).

Our plan is to de-personalise the whole apartment and paint everything white (I mean the walls only of course:laugh). We are actually quite excited about having an "investment property" and ironically would be slightly disappointed now if someone actually wanted to buy this place...:roll

JandM

16th July 2008, 01:06 AM

The agents in our area (central southern England) say they can normally put a tenant into a property within a month to six weeks.

Rusty

16th July 2008, 01:16 AM

We were told approx 1 month as well, fine as we were looking at this sort of time to get everything sorted.
We are just leaving the basics-oven, washing machine and a dishwasher there is no point in taking with us.
We haven't redocorated (left the beds in kids colours), but have priced accordingly. We are also the cheapest (of 3 only) 4 beds for rent in the town.

dusk

16th July 2008, 01:51 AM

as someone who has been a tenant for a few years... if you're moving from one tenancy to another you need to give a months notice (or be given a few months notice if the landlord wants to put your accomodation on the market) so no problem with saying property is available from date x where that date may be a couple of months away as long as you are allowing viewings.

appliances are optional, but if you're planning on leaving some go ahead :yes
also optional in some properties I've found are curtains (although more often than not there are some there) and keys for all the locks (window locks especially fun if the windows are locked shut! but have moved into a property and turned up to find the front door open and no keys!!)

thewoodies

16th July 2008, 02:07 AM

we are going to rent if our property hasnt sold - we will leave it on the market until the last minute though just incase.

We will leave it totally unfurnished only leaving built in cooker - because the less you leave in the less you leave behind and the less you are liable for if anything goes wrong. Agent advised us this was the best course of action as we would be out of the country and although they can deal with anything it saves money (Ours) and hassel. Also its less to worry about. We will pay for insurances for everything we possibly can eg rent arrears/collection damage etc It works out expensive (hubby has figures) but in the scheme of things well worth it. We will advise our solicitor, life insurance company etc.

We are lucky after payng out expenses we should make a profit.

We would still rather sell though as we were hoping to buy a piece of land and build in NZ - this is still possible but means we will both have to work full time and kids are still small. One of us wil stay home first until they are settled and childcare has been sorted etc.:cheers

Rusty

16th July 2008, 02:52 AM

Woodies, agree with you on leaving as little as you can get away with. Especially as it will need electrical PAT testing from 1st October (new lets).
We are trying to cover as much as we can with insurance, but the more figures and checking I do, the more confused it gets - at what point are you paying more for insurance and peace of mind than it would cost to repair anything?
On this basis, we will probably cover the basics and expensive bits and just leave some money in a UK account for emergancies, working on the assumption (and tempting fate) that if it costs a lot to repair it should be claimable on the insurance?

Has anyone found any good deals for boiler,plumbing,etc insurance? So far B.Gas are cheapest for 3 star cover and that can't be right?

wwwdot

16th July 2008, 03:05 AM

Woodies, agree with you on leaving as little as you can get away with. Especially as it will need electrical PAT testing from 1st October (new lets).

So what's the deal on this PAT testing? I googled very little info on PAT testing for rental properties...any links? Is this only relevant for portable appliances as the name says or all wiring etc? As we have a new-built property, we have lots of certificates of compliance re wiring etc.; does this count towards anything?

What about the energy rating info for rental properties that I heard about in the news recently (or did I imagine it...)? Is the one done for HIPS enough.

Awww, gotta love the bureaucracy...NOT:mad:

Rusty

16th July 2008, 03:18 AM

The energy rating thingy is (in my opinion) a waste of time, but a legal requirement - bit like the HIPS. My agent believes we can use the HIP from trying to sell, but no-one is completely sure.
I don't fully understand the electrical testing, but think it is to check the wiring (every 10 years?) and that everything that plugs in to it will not injure someone. IE - it works and will not give a shock. Then it all gets a little yellow sticker and you get a bill!
Did I mention I hate health and safety gone mad.

wwwdot

16th July 2008, 03:21 AM

Then it all gets a little yellow sticker and you get a bill!

Anyone selling any of those yellow stickers on the black market?!:laugh

Seriously, I guess the letting agents give all this info and recommend some companies?

Rusty

16th July 2008, 03:25 AM

Anyone selling any of those yellow stickers on the black market?!:laugh

Seriously, I guess the letting agents give all this info and recommend some companies?

Yes, they know 'more' than me and our agent is going to arrange it all (for a small cost).

babscat

16th July 2008, 03:39 AM

Just in the process of obtaining quotes. Loyds TSB are the cheapest to date -over £600 cheaper than the dearest!! This has, however, to be confirmed once all the dates and final arrangements are finalised. Its obviously worth doing your homework!. Incidentally, we do not bank with the company.
Hope this helps.
Barbara

thewoodies

16th July 2008, 04:17 AM

Did I mention I hate health and safety gone mad.

see the thread i started

fed up with UK

HEALTH AND SAFETY comes up alot

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

JayBee

16th July 2008, 07:24 AM

Hmmm - we really don't want to rent the house out unless there's no other option....(but a sale looks very unlikley at the moment)

We've got a large Victorian house and although it's in good nick (now) naturally there's lots of on-going maintenance to keep it that way. We keep thinking that tenants would be constantly asking for minor maintenance jobs that we would normally do ourselves.. (only going off stories from a couple of friends who have rented out small, modern properties) Hence worries about hassle, costs etc.

The other thing that worries me is that I have no idea of any tax implications - particularly if we buy house in NZ and then being able to sell the UK one in the future when the market improves i.e capital gains etc.

Anyone with "easy to understand" information on this???

YouMeAndThree

16th July 2008, 07:58 AM

We've decided the best option for us is to rent. Our initial plan is to rent our house for 2 years and then review the situation.

We're looking at getting my parents set up as our Power of Attorney, so that they can deal with all the necessary bits and bobs and future sale of our house without the need for us to travel back to the UK. (Well, that's what I'm hoping we can do.)

Lx

mgbridges

16th July 2008, 12:07 PM

I'm sure rules and regs have changed but we rented out our maisonette in London when we lived in Oz approx. 8 yrs ago now. A few issues we had:

1) we had a 'real flame' gas fire in the lounge which we were advised to disconnect as we didn't have the legally required ventilation in the room. We got a Corgi registered friend to do this and give us a formal piece of paper to say it had been done. That way if the tenants decided to turn it on again and something unfortunate happened we'd be covered.

2) we left cooker, dishwasher and fridge freezer behind. All were PAT tested, again by a friend who happened to be an electrician. Again we got a formal certificate from him and all the appliances had little stickers on them.

3) we left a small lump sum of cash with the letting agent to cover running repairs. NB; I insisted on a receipt for this and it was just as well I did! The agent we employed got takenover and the new company claimed no knowledge of this cash. We were able to send them a copy of the receipt and get the money back.

4) you must inform your mortgage provider that you are letting the property

5) you must inform Inland Revenue, there are tax implications in being a Non-Resident Landlord. On the plus side you can usually offset mortgage payments, managing agent fees, repairs etc against any 'profit' that you make.

6) we took out appliance insurance with Domestic & General to cover the gas boiler, electric shower and white goods and left details with the agents. This meant that if any repairs needed doing to these theings it would be covered. However we did have to keep reminding the agents of this fact as they had a tendancy to knee-jerk react to any issues and just send in their 'Mr Fix It' and then try to charge us for it.

7) Don't assume no news is good news if you don't hear from your agent. We found out that our agency had been takenover when we got a statement from a company we'd never heard of! They hadn't bothered to tell us they were going out of business and our property would be looked after by the new company. Keep in regular contact and I would say ask for photographs when they do any inspections. Alternatively have a family member present, just because you are out of the country you don't want them to think they don't need to take as much care and attention with your property.

8) be very specific about who you are prepared to let the property to. We specified no more than 4 people, ie two couples (it was a two double bed flat), young professionals, no children, no housing authorities, no pets.

In a nutshell think long and hard about what 'conditions' you might want added to a standard contract and try to make sure you are covered in any eventuality. Having a family member, trusted friend or neighbour to keep an eye and/or inspect the property from time to time is invaluable as is Insurance.

HTH & good luck!
Anneliese

Parsley

16th July 2008, 12:11 PM

The HSE may be able to offer advice on how often to PAT test elecrical equipment (basically, anything with a plug). Any decent electrician will be able to do the tests, but HSE might be able to advise on how often to have it done:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/

:)

All Aboard

16th July 2008, 01:44 PM

We have rented out our house in the UK and are renting here in Auckland so we are in a position that alot of you will find yourselves in. Give me UK regulations and HEALTH AND SAFETY anyday.

As landlords we have total peace of mind that our tenants in the UK are safe renting our home. Gas and Electrical tests have all been carried out, there are fitted working smoke alarms and signed contracts by us as landlords and by the tenant so we know that everything is watertight and where everyone stands.

As tenants in New Zealand, total different story. We had to buy our own smoke alarms, no electrical checks have to be made and we are renting a very old villa. We know that it would certainly fail the tests in the UK, maybe its the odd sparks that we see from the plug sockets now and again which give the game away!! (Im not joking).

The landlord also told us that it is our responsibility to get the chimney swept. We were not able to gain any information from them of when the chimney was actually last used so we do not bother with it.

There was no mention of signing any contracts (which we insisted on for our own benefit), when we took the rental.

When I think of the condition that we had to leave our home in, compared to the standard of rentals here, absolutely no comparision and I think NZ could learn lots from the UK. No they are not all bad you may be lucky and find a good one, but its not the first time on here thats been said that the standard of rental housing here is VERY disappointing. :(

jasonelsa56

16th July 2008, 10:33 PM

Hi to all

Rusty firstly i'd like to say this thread is a great idea. In the current market i think renting is going to be the only option for many of us NZ hopefuls.

Any advice and tips we can share to help others has gota be good.

I my opinion the renting option does need to be concidered very carefully, from my research so far here's a small list of thngs to think about.

1: Does the rent you can get cover the mortgage (i know an obvious one:yes)

2: Cheak out all costs, insurance, maintence, manangement, testing etc. In our calculations we have alowed 10months a year lettings and £1000pa for maintenance and repairs. This give a buffer in case of voids (we don't want to be paying our UK mortgage out of NZ wages).

3: Check out agents charges carefully we have had quotes from 6% up to 13% for a fully managed service. However, some charged additional letting fee, inventory fee etc which worked out over £1000 every time the let the property. The best was the 6% deal that included everything (pm if you want the name if you are in the Hitchin area).

That's all i've got for now i will update when i think of something else.

J

vic11

17th July 2008, 12:26 AM

Hi guys,

I originally posted on the "on the market thread". We are in the same boat as everyone else. We didn't even attempt to put the apartment on the market as there are quite a few up for sale. We have been told that it will take a month to 6 weeks to rent it out and as we are hoping to go around September time its ideal.
We were planning on leaving everything behind as when we land in Auckland we will just have our suitcases, but now after I have just read we are libel for everything? My plan was I either bin the TV (very old), or leave it behind for someone to use, but if I am going to have to pay to have it replaced/ tested etc, this is maybe not such a good idea.
We have had quotes of 10% and 13% for full management, but I have friends who have managed their property fine for the last year from NZ themselves. But I am wondering if thats worth the risk being so far away.
Lots to think about from this thread, thank you all,

Victoria

Natalieb

17th July 2008, 12:57 AM

Interesting thread!!!

I have an appointment with an agent at 2pm today to discuss letting out my house.

It has been on the market for over a year and we have dropped the price twice and am not prepared to drop it again. Our ITA/Medicals/Police checks all expired waiting to sell this house, which all cost us a small fortune :(

Anyway better get tidying up,

Natalie

lnz

17th July 2008, 01:38 AM

What time of year is best for getting in a tenant? I wonder if anyone would be willing to move in mid-December? Or Jan 1st?

I would say your timing is as good as it gets - with the mid December target, anyway!

We were looking for rental properties last November / December. Properties were being let before we even got to our viewing.

The agents said mid November to mid December was great for lettings - everyone wants to be at least a week before Christmas.

January wasn't so hot though.

Good luck.

Red Devil

17th July 2008, 01:46 AM

Hmmm, we're giving it another 10 weeks to sell our place in France... failing that, we too will be going down the route of renting out, only we'll have the extra headache of 3 separate tenants rather than 1... life's never easy :roll

We're still convinced it's the next best thing to selling. Not wishing to be negative, but who's to say NZ will be the dream that we all hope it's going to be... at least you'll have your own property to go back to should things not work out, plus someone would have paid your mortgage for you whilst trying out NZ... bonus :)

Like I say, not wishing to be negative... just hard facts :yes

Good luck all :nice1

Simon

Rusty

17th July 2008, 02:01 AM

Vic, we are having similar thoughts on what to leave behind. We are going to fill a container with most bits, but don't fancy cleaning out the hoover, lawnmower,etc and was hoping to leave them for the tenants to use (hope). Instead of being liable for repair I thought about trying to sell them to the tenant for £1 so they have one?

Rusty

17th July 2008, 02:03 AM

Red Devil

17th July 2008, 02:30 AM

... it makes perfect sense Rusty and something OH and I talk about regularly. We'd much sooner cut all ties and start a fresh in NZ :yes

Simon

thewoodies

17th July 2008, 02:35 AM

Our friends and family have said similar things about having somewhere to come back to - the thing is, I don't want to have a safety net in case we use it or know we have it in the back of ours minds. Does that make sense?

Yes this is how my husband feels , I feel the same except if we have to rent then perhaps its not such a bad thing.

I do feel some friends and family hope it doesnt work out for thier own selfish reasons.

Although my dad who took us overseas to live has advised us that to rent out our house in the Uk for a couple of years to see if we settle is a good idea as Homesickness is an irrational feeling you cannot comprehend until you experience it first hand.

Moorf

17th July 2008, 02:43 AM

Just had a thought - do the DSS still pay for unemployed people's rent? About 10 yrs or so ago, on the recommendation of another renter, I rented out my home to someone whose rent came to me direct from the DSS, regular as clockwork and good rental rates. It was something I had never, ever considered but (perhaps I was lucky) he was one of the best tenants I had in my 15 yrs of renting it out... also had a not so good one, but saying that I \had a nightmare with two who rented it through an agent, too.

Just a thought if you're desperate to rent....

Moorf

17th July 2008, 02:44 AM

... it makes perfect sense Rusty and something OH and I talk about regularly. We'd much sooner cut all ties and start a fresh in NZ :yes

Simon

I personally think that's very important - if it's too easy to go back then you may well just take the option if you hit a bad spot...

Rusty

17th July 2008, 03:45 AM

Still waiting to hear from either of our viewers, they say they are interested, but until anything is signed...

In the meantime though, I just went and bought 2 large holdalls in the sales:nice1

Moorf

17th July 2008, 03:47 AM

We need a "fingers crossed" smiley...

Rusty

17th July 2008, 03:50 AM

We need a "fingers crossed" smiley...

If I remember correctly, I think this ++++++++++ became fingers crossed on the selling thread.

JandM

17th July 2008, 04:39 AM

You do! (It was my improvisation, so I know.:D)

Mrs Pony

17th July 2008, 05:35 AM

If we get in we're going to be renting out our condo... The unit above us is asking for $100,000 right now... and we would have to sell our place for $150,000 to get back what we put down on it.

Wishing I didn't buy it at all right about now... it's our first place and will have been in it for a year in Aug.

Hindsight is a B****!

thinking about following the trend here and might just foreclose on it as a last resort...

wwwdot

17th July 2008, 09:08 AM

The agents said mid November to mid December was great for lettings - everyone wants to be at least a week before Christmas.

January wasn't so hot though.

Thanks for this info! :nice1 We'll get this sorted sooner rather than later then.

The other thing that worries me is that I have no idea of any tax implications - particularly if we buy house in NZ and then being able to sell the UK one in the future when the market improves i.e capital gains etc.

Anyone with "easy to understand" information on this???

Does anyone know about the capital gains tax? We are also planning to buy in NZ and keep UK property until the market improves, no matter whether it will take a year or 20 years. Yes, and I agree on the need to find easy to understand information...I don't seem to communicate in the same language as lawyers or tax officials.:uhoh

mgbridges

17th July 2008, 11:41 AM

Rusty, Woodies, Red Devil - totally agree with the whole not leaving a 'safety net' behind. Its one of the main reasons we decided to sell up before moving out.

There have been a fair few moments during the last year when I think I would have jumped on a plane because I knew there was somewhere to go back to if we'd still had the house. Knowing that this 'has' to be home (at least for now) has made us both work through feelings/emotions and we've also communicated a lot more/better. My VERY personal opinion here but to me its kinda like getting married - if you're married and have problems you make a huge effort to work it out, if you're not married its much easier (at least subconciously) to give up.

Hope this makes sense (and doesn't open up a whole other discussion about marriage as this isn't what this thread is about :exit)

Anneliese

KerryS

17th July 2008, 01:07 PM

Does anyone know about the capital gains tax? We are also planning to buy in NZ and keep UK property until the market improves, no matter whether it will take a year or 20 years. Yes, and I agree on the need to find easy to understand information...I don't seem to communicate in the same language as lawyers or tax officials.:uhoh

Capital Gains Tax depends on whether or not you've ever lived in the house yourself, and whether it was your primary residence when in the UK. CGT only comes into play when you sell the property. If you sell it within 3 years of when you first rented it, you don't have to pay. If you rent for more than 3 years, you pay CGT on the increase in value over the time that you were renting it, less the increase in value over 3 years (not sure if its average or the first 3 years). There is an anual CGT allowance, so you won't pay it on the full amount.
Essentially this means if you are not coming back, after 2 years or so, do the maths and figure out whether it makes more sense to sell than to keep it, so you can sell before the 3 years CGT limit.
However, if you are non resident for 5 full tax years then you will avoid CGT in UK.

This is how it was explained to me by a UK accountant a couple of months ago, so is my understanding of CGT.
I was thinking of selling my property in London, but I'm going to wait a few more years as the tenants I have are more than happy there, and the market isn't the greatest at the moment - I should have sold last year when I had the opportunity to! Oh hindsight...

K&J

17th July 2008, 03:27 PM

This is my situation - my house is on the market, but has only been on the market 4 weeks, but I'm starting to change my mind.

My house is already rented as I moved to Australia last year. I've found it quite stressful being so far away from what is my bigest asset, wondering what the tenants were doing to devalue my house. The letting agents were inspecting the house regularly and telling me all was well and to date the tenants have paid on time every month.

I went back to the UK for a holiday in June and inspected the house whilst I was there. I found I'd got chain smokers living in what I had stipulated as a non-smoking house - something the agents clearly didn't pick up on. The kitchen walls had turned yellow and there were cigarette burn marks in the bathroom. Initially I was quite upset, because I was intending to put the house on the market and felt it would put buyers off, but eventually figured it could be worse.

So the house has been on the market for 4 weeks - I don't know how many viewings there has been, but I've received a fairly cheeky offer which I refused as I don't feel I need to rush in to selling as I'd be happy to rent for a while in NZ.

I'm considering changing my mind about selling because, unlike some of you on this forum, my partner (who is a Kiwi) and I are not considering our move to NZ necessarily as a permenant move. It suits us for now, but we are open to moving back to the UK again, or even somewhere else, in the long term future. So we're considering whether it is best to keep a foothold in the UK market and start afresh in Wellington.

It doesn't resolve the stress I feel being so far away, so if I got a good offer I might sell and then buy somewhere closer to my parents in the UK so someone other than an agent can keep any eye on the place and deal with any emergencies, however there are CGT implications for that option.

It's not any easy decision.

Rusty

18th July 2008, 03:45 AM

This is becoming just as frustrating as selling only on a quicker/shortened timescale. The same problems seem to happen much quicker IE viewing, waiting and disappointment/happiness.
We were very hopeful on one viewer, but they have picked a different house :(
There is another possible interest, but waiting to hear if they want to come round. We are also the main property on the frint page on the house section of the local paper. Hoping we can move on soon.

jasonelsa56

22nd July 2008, 06:25 AM

Rusty

22nd July 2008, 07:02 AM

Anyone had any luck with renting yet. Trying to decide when the right time is to put ours on. We have had an offer from the inlaws to stay with them until we go. So it may be a case of when is the wrong time to rent a house (ie what time of the is it most difficult) I'm guessing that the school holidays is not ideal.

J

No luck renting yet. Another viewing tomorrow.
We also have the chance to stay with my parents - us 5, them 2 in a small 3 bed!
Give yourself plenty of time to rent or choose your preferred tenants.

Pookeko

23rd July 2008, 04:51 AM

jasonelsa56, I would have thought school holidays would be pretty good, people looking to move school zones and settle their kids before start of new term, maybe? Are you renting out a family home - sorry I have read the whole thread but forget who has what sort of house.

K&J, we are in the same situation, though we are both Kiwis, but we have kept our UK properties because we want to eventually go back in a few years' time.

We have two properties (both our ex-homes) in the UK which we let with separate agencies that charge us 10%+VAT. We are tempted to put the first property on the market because we could do with some funds here to make a deposit. But saying that we have mortgage pre-approval to a crazy sum, so we can theoretically afford something here (I just can't find anything I'm happy with, and I feel like most houses are overpriced for what they are - sheds).

I had a hiccup with one of our UK properties in May when our "management" company had made it sound like water was leaking everywhere and the place was flooded (I exaggerate only slightly ;) ) when actually it was the case that the shower screen wasn't doing its job properly and was letting water trickle down the side of the bath. So I sort of went back to the UK for what turned out to be a non-event! But actually I got a few jobs done there while we were between tenants (such as the carpet needed to be replaced) and inspected the other property as well. Plus I got to see all my friends which was lovely :yes

Anneliese already mentioned about informing your mortgage provider, there is a charge for this (we are with Northern Rock and NatWest, they both definitely charge) and you have to say whether you are letting it for one year or more, different charges apply depending (higher charge for longer let).

Also as Anneliese said, pro-active communication with the agents is really important as they are not (in our experience) good at letting you know anything. Also when you do speak to them - we try to ring them fairly regularly - make sure you speak to the woman or man who is the one who knows what's going on! We've found that there is usually only one of these people per agency! :roll but make sure you're speaking to him/her (and then you confirm to them in an email everything that was said, for peace of mind!). =)

I could say a lot about the standard of letting in the UK as opposed to NZ (we have been landlords in NZ as well, and we currently rent). But then none of us on here are likely to be the slum-landlord type if we are renting out the houses that we have lived in for the past X years. I know I still care about mine, even though the one I will probably not live in again. If you are in NZ and renting, is the place you are renting the owner's ex-main-residence, or an investment rental? The one we're in is the owner's ex-main-residence, and it's not very good!!!
I have found members of staff at the rental agency that we rent through here to be very rude in some instances. So short-sighted really considering we may very well have something here to let in a few years' time!...

Anyway all in all, I haven't been put off letting property, it's just a risk and you have to weigh up whether it's one that suits you. For me, no hesitation, it would be a good (short-term if necessary) remedy for getting on my way to wherever I wanted to be.

Anyway sorry for the LONG post here, lots of points to cover! =)

jasonelsa56

23rd July 2008, 05:58 AM

Rusty

23rd July 2008, 06:09 AM

Pookeko. You may be right about the school hols, but we are waiting until we are approved in principle before looking to rent. (family house). Submitted ITA in person today at New Zealand House. So could be any time from early sept to christmas before we can put it on the rental market. Would guess that 4 weeks either side of Christmas would not be a good time. So fingers crossed we have a decision before then.

J

Good luck.
We had another potential tenant to look today, said he would decide in 2 -3 days (toooo long, can't wait), but I don't think he wants to move until september, which is too late for us.

Janey

24th July 2008, 05:08 AM

Dear All
we rented our flat out 10 years ago, which proved good to a housing association they do pay a set rate often below market rent but the pay regardless of if they have anyone in there and do not charge a fee.

The only thing I will say is they were hot on electrics and the boiler being tested and serviced while they rented the property the upstairs flat flooded into ours this was sorted quite well (the only problems I had were with the bank and managing agents) plus having to do a self assessment each year (not sure if this will affect you living abraod) but it might be worth trying them!

Rusty

24th July 2008, 11:41 PM

Yet another possible tenant and wife yesterday and a small family tomorrow.
Here's to hoping to get it signed and sealed so we can organise everything else which is now coming in a very short time!

Rusty

26th July 2008, 03:07 AM

We may have actually found a tenant!!! Thread 1st?
The agency are starting references and the rent would be guarunteed by their employer for 6 months.
They are OK-ish waiting on us for 4 weeks as they like the house and are even looking to buy at some point in the future if they become settled in the area.

I am expecting to wake up any time as this is too good to be true.

P.S. I would normally wait to say anything as I'm worried about tempting fate, but need to say something before I explode.

We could finally make our dream move happen (with renting worries of course, :nice1

jasonelsa56

26th July 2008, 03:16 AM

Congrats rusty. Fingers crossed it all happens. Did you get the level of rent you wanted?:cheers

Rusty

26th July 2008, 03:35 AM

Congrats rusty. Fingers crossed it all happens. Did you get the level of rent you wanted?:cheers

We got (assuming it happens) the price we advertised, would have been nice to get more :p

Rusty

30th July 2008, 01:24 AM

wwwdot

30th July 2008, 01:33 AM

Update, the family are now filling in forms and the agency expect a holding deposit in a few days (hope so).
We would need to be out around 20/8 and have started booking containers, re-reading contracts and doing all the things we hoped we would have a few months to do if we had sold.
Lesson learnt - it happens very quickly this way!
Anyway, NZ in 6 -7 weeks here we come.

Congratulations:clap

How long did it take to get the tenants from when you first advertised? Did the agency advertise anywhere else than own website and right move?

Rusty

30th July 2008, 03:19 AM

Congratulations:clap

How long did it take to get the tenants from when you first advertised? Did the agency advertise anywhere else than own website and right move?

We started trying to try renting at the beginning of July (giving moving date of August) with 3 agents.
2 of these on rightmove, each with their own websites and they all have local shops, lists of possible tenants and use the local paper as well.
We have had 5 or 6 people round, 3 are interested on different timescales and 1 is close to finalising their application/holding deposit and waiting on references.
Much faster timescale than selling, it seems to be flying by with little time to arrange everything I need to.

wwwdot

30th July 2008, 03:28 AM

Rusty

30th July 2008, 03:54 AM

Rusty,

Would you recommend using that many agents? Pros and cons?

We thought about just using the one we are trying to sell with now so that when we try to sell again in 3-5 years time (apparently credit crunch lasting until 2010 at minimum according to news), we can use them again.

What are your plans for trying to sell in the future? Timescale etc?

Anyway, thanks for earlier advice. We have decided to take the dishwasher with us to NZ as we doubt it would increase the rental value and in any case we want to avoid all hassle with appliances if at all possible.

We used 3 agents for different reasons, but as you only pay the one that rents it, I would have a few. We had one of our selling agents also trying to rent it, the other seller has close relations with the 2nd renter and the 3rd renter was just new and cheaper and worth a punt.
The only con is keeping up with who sent who round and when - keep a note somewhere!
We are only renting until the house sells in the future (we hope 6-12 months), and in that regard we are keeping it for sale at a slightly increased price and no adverts with 1 agent.
The best outcome would be our tenants wanting to buy it :D

wwwdot

30th July 2008, 05:05 AM

We used 3 agents for different reasons, but as you only pay the one that rents it, I would have a few. We had one of our selling agents also trying to rent it, the other seller has close relations with the 2nd renter and the 3rd renter was just new and cheaper and worth a punt.
The only con is keeping up with who sent who round and when - keep a note somewhere!
We are only renting until the house sells in the future (we hope 6-12 months), and in that regard we are keeping it for sale at a slightly increased price and no adverts with 1 agent.
The best outcome would be our tenants wanting to buy it :D

Thanks for this. Good point that we should also use several agents then. I guess in any case one of the agents could advertise the property at a higher price just to see whether we can get lucky *fingers crossed*:yes

Did you have a lot of difference if the rental quotes? How about the agents' views about the rental market? I'd assume the prices should go up slowly...

The rental contract is then specific to your circumstances, meaning that you can sell anytime? Did the agents help writing the contract or did you need a lawyer? I would rather not get a lawyer to add to the expenses:no

Rusty

30th July 2008, 05:17 AM

Thanks for this. Good point that we should also use several agents then. I guess in any case one of the agents could advertise the property at a higher price just to see whether we can get lucky *fingers crossed*:yes

Did you have a lot of difference if the rental quotes? How about the agents' views about the rental market? I'd assume the prices should go up slowly...

The rental contract is then specific to your circumstances, meaning that you can sell anytime? Did the agents help writing the contract or did you need a lawyer? I would rather not get a lawyer to add to the expenses:no

I doubt you will get any agent to advertise a higher price as they will not expect any business. All of ours where at the same price.
We had £150/mth difference between 4 quotes and went in the middle as we wanted to move quickly. Generally the views were that renting is stronger at present as people are avoiding buying, so need somewhere to stay.
We have had to start with the minimum legal contract, which is 6 months with 1 month notice (tenant) or 2 months from us. They are aware we want to sell, but are tied in with these notice periods.
We are using agents who 'fully manage' for 10%. THey find tenants, do the references, contracts, inspect the house and collect the rent - seems simpler as we will be 12,000 miles away.

wwwdot

30th July 2008, 06:14 AM

I doubt you will get any agent to advertise a higher price as they will not expect any business. All of ours where at the same price.
We had £150/mth difference between 4 quotes and went in the middle as we wanted to move quickly. Generally the views were that renting is stronger at present as people are avoiding buying, so need somewhere to stay.
We have had to start with the minimum legal contract, which is 6 months with 1 month notice (tenant) or 2 months from us. They are aware we want to sell, but are tied in with these notice periods.
We are using agents who 'fully manage' for 10%. THey find tenants, do the references, contracts, inspect the house and collect the rent - seems simpler as we will be 12,000 miles away.

OK, so what about the HIPS that will be required for renting from October (?). I guess you have just avoided that Rusty? We were hoping that the HIPS for selling this place could be used for renting as well...not sure if this is possible. So is we decide to use several agents, do we also have to pay the HIPS separately to each one?:exit

Sorry if this has already been covered...there's so much information to take in...:o

Rusty

30th July 2008, 07:11 AM

OK, so what about the HIPS that will be required for renting from October (?). I guess you have just avoided that Rusty? We were hoping that the HIPS for selling this place could be used for renting as well...not sure if this is possible. So is we decide to use several agents, do we also have to pay the HIPS separately to each one?:exit

Sorry if this has already been covered...there's so much information to take in...:o

I would just say, check with your agents.
Each one gave a different answer. A bit like when hips 1st started for selling, no-one has a clue.
We are going with the idea that our hips will cover the energy-waste-of-time-and-money thingy.
And my guess, one energy thingy covers your house whoever the agent.

Rabbit

30th July 2008, 11:33 AM

We have just got back to the UK after renting out our house for two years whilst being in NZ.

I have just spent £12k (sofar) putting it back in order.

Lessons learned:

- pick your management company very wisely
- ask them who they use for maintenance and are they professionally qualified
- ensure during check-in and check-out that defects and damages are recovered.
- try to make sure there is a key person at the agency who knows your property.
- Be clear about the roles and responsibilities of the rental company e.g. what do they actually do for the money, are they just reactive or proactive?
- what is the inspection level, by whom, and frequency of reports?
It is not just about finding a tennant, properties need to be well maintained and maintenance issues promptly and correctly addressed.

If you do decide to sell later, then think about how you are going to manage that, whilst being on the other-side of the world, e.g. empty property, getting it ready etc.

Rabbit

IanR

30th July 2008, 01:25 PM

I have to agree with Rabbit and just add that some rental agents invoicing that I've come across verges on, and sometimes is, criminally fraudulent. You really do need to find an existing landlord who can recommend a good agent your area.

Also, if I had a specific question regarding landlords issues I'd ask here..

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Messages.asp?bid=50096&mid=11143386&sort=whole

They're a pretty helpful bunch and much cheaper than asking your brief...however I do suspect that if you wrote and said "I'm off to live in NZ and am going to rent out my property for several years..." their advice would be to give it a great deal of thought prior to going down that route!

Another useful link I used: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/

hope this helps.

Rusty

31st July 2008, 04:20 AM

Mels

31st July 2008, 09:55 AM

Hi guys,

Sadly I'm joining this thread, so just starting out. So far investigating landlord insurance, apparently you can insure for no payment from tenants?? Tax forms for nonresidents, spoken to our old accountant and sorting out mortgage changing to letting.
Whats next - appart from getting a tenant!!

Mels

Peter&Liz

1st August 2008, 01:25 AM

When we moved to England from Scotland we couldn’t sell our flat at the time so decided to rent instead. The letting agents we spoke to were all less than impressive when you started asking what they did for their money should there be issues with the tenant, from memory it came down to they would get a solicitor on the case which we would pay for, to mean it seemed once tenanted they were charging 15% for cashing a cheque.

In the end we went with a local solicitor instead who was slightly cheaper 12% not 15% on the basis that a letter headed on solicitor notepaper looked a lot better than one from a letting agency. I am very impressed that people are getting 10% and lower from letting agencies are you getting these offers upfront or by hard negotiating?

We rented it out for approx 3 years and the last lot of tenants didn’t look after the place well at all, in hindsight we might have been better to use the local University as not only do they guarantee rents but will also make good any damage. It might be worth looking into if anyone is in a University town to see if they run a similar scheme.

Also a friend of mine after a difficult time renting his flat out privately rented it out via the local authority, who took it for a set period 3 or 5 years with guaranteed rent regardless of whether they had it tenanted or not.

Peter

IanR

2nd August 2008, 01:11 PM

Financial Times: Glut forces cuts in London rentals

By Sharlene Goff and Elaine Moore

Published: August 1 2008 21:19 | Last updated: August 1 2008 21:19

Rents across London have started to fall by as much as 20 per cent as a glut of supply forces landlords to cut prices.

After a year of strong growth, rents on properties ranging from family houses in Kensington to two-bedroom apartments in Canary Wharf are now being slashed by hundreds of pounds a week, according to estate agents............more............
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b8d0ba90-6005-11dd-805e-000077b07658.html

and also from the FT:

Stalled house sales prompt rash of ‘to let’ signs

By Elaine Moore

Published: August 1 2008 18:49 | Last updated: August 1 2008 18:49

Property owners unable to sell their homes are being pushed into the lettings market, but many are finding rents insufficient to meet their mortgage repayments.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ff5cd45a-5fef-11dd-805e-000077b07658.html

I'm also seeing similar in West Yorkshire - more properties than tenants apparently.

IanR

3rd August 2008, 10:13 PM

.... is particularly true for first-time landlords - such as the thousands of homeowners who cannot sell their properties during the current market slowdown but have to move out and instead temporarily let their homes while waiting for a buyer.

Consumer group Which? says there are some 3,000 UK lettings agents in some kind of trade scheme or body, usually the Association of Residential Lettings Agents or Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. Foxtons is a member of the Ombudsman for Estate Agents scheme, but is in neither Arla nor Rics, which both have codes of conduct.

But that leaves 10,000 other agents not in trade bodies. A Which? spokesman says these agents operate 'in a growing market with high demand, in which people are likely to sign up to rent out their new home without checking the small print, which sometimes has outrageous clauses hidden away'.

Which? advises would-be landlords to seek three or more different valuations and to select one only after seeing details of the fees, charges and services related to it, checking the small print of the contract with a lawyer, and giving the lettings agent a thorough grilling on their track record and problem-solving abilities .

What to ask agents

· How many similar properties do you have to let?

· How many are not being let now?

· How long does it usually take from advertising to getting a tenant?

· Is anyone currently looking for my sort of property?

· What qualifications do your staff have in letting?

· Are you in a trade association? If not, why not?

· How are disputes between owners and agents settled?

· What happens about repairs in the home?

· If the agency handles repairs, am I charged cost price, or with a mark-up?

Source: Which?

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/money/guardian/features/2008/08/3/i-could-have-had-thousands-in-rent-but-my-letting-agency-let-me-down.html?page=2

K&J

5th August 2008, 02:00 PM

When I handed my place over to a letting agent I gave them a list of my preferred tradesman should anything in the house need fixing. I also contacted the tradesman and explained the situation and told them that if they were contacted by the letting agent to undertake some work that they should invoice me directly rather than the agent.

So far this has worked really well and it means I feel a little more protected from over-charging and letting agent's mark ups and I can be sure of the quality of the work being done.

YouMeAndThree

5th August 2008, 10:45 PM

We've got the last of our prospective rental agency coming this morning. So far, so good. One is a no go as it's an Estate Agent who has only just ventured into the rental market. I think they've been going 3 months - certainly not long enough for me to trust them with my house whilst I'm the other side of the world. Rates have varied hugely, but letting valuation have all been in the same area, and 2 were prepared to negotiate on their full management fee. Have one in mind right now, but will see how we get on this morning - recommendation from a relative.

We covered all those topics recommened by Which?, so thanks for posting that.

Lx

vic11

6th August 2008, 12:17 AM

Rusty

6th August 2008, 04:44 AM

I think we have all the questions covered as above. But you still worry. I mean we are going to be on the other side of the world, so you have really no idea if our place is being looked after or not. So I am nervous about it, but I think we have picked the best letting agent for the job, so here's hoping. They are coming out today to take photos, so hopefully it won't take too long to get a tennant and then we'll be homeless!! :wah

Strange feeling actually wanting to be homeless! Know what you mean though.
Our agent is coming tomorrow to hopefully sign contracts and then we start to panic big time.
I will worry about the house, but have a friend that rents a few places keeping an eye on tenatns and the agent.;)

YouMeAndThree

6th August 2008, 06:20 AM

I will worry about the house, but have a friend that rents a few places keeping an eye on tenants and the agent.;)

Have decided on our Agent now - and just like you we have someone nearby with several houses with them who'll kick a$$ for us if necessary.

Agreed which agent to go with this morning, this afternoon we've had a call to show first of two tenants round on Saturday. Another agent rang too with possible tenants, but not going with them. Thankfully we are in a good rental area, a different story across the water in Southampton, they are awash with flats with no hope of finding tenants.

Lx

Mrs Pony

8th August 2008, 10:38 AM

seems a bit much for people that are renting...or is that normal?

Mels

8th August 2008, 10:41 AM

seems abit much to me too. As they have 4 kids in our 3 bedroom house I was thinking of putting on a 20% loading for extra wear and tear :)

just wondered what others thought

Mels

YouMeAndThree

8th August 2008, 11:06 AM

Mels, if they are that fussy now, I'd hate to think what they'd be like as tennants!

Lx

napiers

8th August 2008, 11:15 AM

Mels, your situation sounds abit much and for them to ask for a rent reduction on top of everything else they expect!

We haven't yet got to the point of trying to sell our house - after Christmas perhaps :roll but we have bought a small studio flat (as an investment) which we are renting out. The letting agent is doing the fully managed thing and after 2 months so far so good. They had even found us a possible tenant before we'd exchanged contracts and even decided to go with them. It is a new build and so everything's new and unfurnished so we're hoping that it will be of minimal hassle (and that the tenant will stay for ever!!). We're not naive enough to think that we may not have problems but fingers crossed they won't be biggies. My real fear is that when we come to trying to sell our house it won't sell and we'll have to consider renting it aswell - I'm certain it will cost us a fortune to get up to rentable standard and that's just scary.

I'm following this thread with interest so I can pick up any hints and tips that come along. Good luck with everything to you all.