[Mrs Pony]

If we get into NZ... we were thinking about moving back to the US when it was time to start having kids...depending on if we can afford them, I'm ready to start and what's going on in the US...

Just wanted to know people's thoughts on the education system in NZ vs US...

[ldlim]

This is actually the reason why we are leaving the US. With the poor public education system, school violence and poor role models (ie tween "sexy" icons) for our young children we decided that NZ is better for the kids. The education our kids would receive in NZ is far superior (imo) to what is available here. There are quite a few threads already on how the edu systems compare/differ. When I get a few moments more I will link it.

[JasonS]

same for us-this was one of our many reasons to move here. we were getting tired of the education that the kids were getting in the states. seems like they were just teaching them how to "fill in the correct bubbles" on the state/national test that they always seemed to be taking.

my kids really like their school here. it is a much more relaxed environment then what they had back in the states (they love being able to walk around the class or school barefoot). at their school, they combine two different years together with one teacher (my son is in year 3, but has year 4 kids in his class as well). so all the kids are working at a different level, at their level, and it is not just a "one lesson for all approach" weather you understand it or not. for example, all the kids may be working on different spelling words each week, which is at their level. also, at the upper years, the kids will go to a different teacher for math based on their level. i like this approach becuase it does not penalize the kids that might not understand something, and challenges the kids who might be a tad bit smarter.

my kids have been doing some very creative work compared to what they were doing back in the states. they seem to enjoy school, and that is what is important. we feel NZ is a wonderful place to raise our kids. :raebanana

laurel

[dilanium]

From what I have seen of students just entering uni after high school- they seem much better prepared. They learned in high school what most students learn in the first year of university. I would say from what I hear of the schools in the US and that, that your children would have better schooling in NZ.

Not to mention that it seems to be a much more child friendly place.

[akp713]

Well as an American teaching in NZ I have experienced both systems and the NZ one is definitely superior to the US. In the OECD nations NZ is ranked 3rd for education quality behind Finland and Canada, the US ranks about 12th.

At the primary level there certainly seems to be a more well-rounded approach with kids doing far more sports and physical excersise than in the US and the sports are designed to be all inclusive, like school cross-country. They also seem more willing to let kids be kids, letting them run around barefoot all day indeed being an example of this, I wish my elementary school in the states had allowed that.

At the secondary level, where I teach, there is a lot more focus on thinking skills than general knowledge like in the US. Students never take multiple choice tests, everything is short answer or essay or project. Teachers only grade about half of student work for years 11 to 13, the rest is assessed through external exams at that level. There is a much wider range of subjects available to students at high school level and the fact that the vast majority of students attend public schools in NZ shows how well they work. The technique of allowing students of differing ability levels to chose what to work on is called scaffolding and is strongly encouraged during teacher training in NZ. The best part of NZ schooling is that the curriculum is very flexible and allows teachers to chose what issues to teach and how to teach them. In the US it always seemed we got a single big text-book for the whole year and what it said was the truth on whatever matter we covered and teachers had to teach the topics the way politicians or beurocrats had decided they should.

That being said there are some negatives to consider. NZ has one of the OECD's least egalitarian systems, meaning that while it performs well overall there is a large segment of students performing very poorly, mostly Maori/Polynesian students. For example, out of 25 high schools in urban South Auckland in 2006 only 200 students went on to University. In NZ as a whole 45% of Maori students failed to complete Level 1 NCEA (equivalent to US 10th grade). Also while it is good to teach students thinking skills that aren't taught in US schools there is a problem in my opinion with a lack of general knowledge being taught. Also only about 12% of adult Kiwis have a Bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 25% in the US.

[Mrs Pony]

Wow! Thanks for the great responses!

I saw a small bit of a show the other day (maybe Oprah) ... basically there was a girl that was her high school valedictorian, she got into an ivy league uni ... and had no clue what she was doing. She's now a year behind in her studies. All of her other schooling hadn't prepared her for uni. I wouldn't want that for my kids... there is enough stress already when you "leave the nest".

OH and I were both educated here in the US. He made A's and B's... I made C's... He didn't like Uni and I thought it was a joke and was easier than high school.

It seems like the schools in NZ, let the kid's be kids! A kid in the US that walked around with no shoes would probably be sent to the principal! Which makes me laugh because most adults take their shoes off as soon as they sit down behind their desks! ...at least i do...

[mgf]

Taking your shoes off is very much a Kiwi . You find many adults wondering around in the summer with no shoes, going to the supermarket for example. Something you would never see in the States (no shirt no shoes no service). Having said that most Kiwis kick their shoes off at the front door before entering a home. I can't help but wondering sometimes if those kids feet aren't freezing in the winter time as there is not central heating but they seem to fine with it.

[akp713]

Yeah I kind of wonder about that too. Yesterday had to be one of the coldest days of the year in Auckland but when I went to the supermarket bundled up in a couple of sweaters myself, there were a couple of kids there in t-shirts, shorts and bare feet. They certainly didn't look like they were cold though. My flat-mate never wears shoes but she will put on a jacket, scarf and hat, go figure.

I think the kids spend so much time running around at schools in NZ, as opposed to just sitting at their desks all day like we did in the US, that they keep warmer through activity. And I should clarify about inclusiveness in sports. US elementary schools do of course do all-inclusive sports, but at high school level you either make the team or you don't. At NZ high schools there are usually lots of teams for each sport, ranked for skill level, but basically if you want to play you can. One school on the Shore had 50 table tennis teams of three members each.

[mgbridges]

Speaking from limited experience of Catholic primary school in West London and now Catholic primary school on North Shore, Auckland I am VERY impressed with the NZ system.

Admittedly DS had only done morning sessions at Nursery school and then the full Reception year in the UK so I only have one full year of fulltime schooling to base my judgement on but I'm still more impressed by NZ. In the UK they had picked up he was a bit behind where they would expect him to be but didn't really seem to know why. Here in NZ the school picked up on this almost immediately and have done the following:

allocated extra Teacher Aide time immediately
give him individualised homework that is at his level when it comes to reading and spelling
have put in a referral for a RTLB (Resource Teacher: Learning and Behaviour) to be allocated to him
worked things out so he can have an extra PMP (Perceptual Motor Programme) lesson which the other kids in his year group don't have
and within the next fornight he will be going onto the schools Literacy Enrichment programme meaning he will get one-on-one time with a teacher three times a week.
loaned us books for extra reading at home (again at his level)
The school have been incredibly supportive, his teachers (they job share) have been very 'available' to talk to and at our recent parent/teacher meeting suggested we talk to a Behavioural Optometrist regarding assessment.


I don't wish to speak ill of the UK Education system or his old school but being brutally honest I simply don't think he would have had nearly as much support as he is getting here. Maybe some extra one-on-one with a Teacher Aide and maybe some time on a reading recovery programme but I'm not sure. I have a gut feeling he would have just been labelled as 'slow' and a 'trouble maker' as developmentally he is a bit behind and doesn't yet have the social skills that a lot of kids his age do.

Sorry to ramble but I wanted to go into more depth about the whys and wherefores of being so much more impressed with the NZ system.

HTH
Anneliese

[sweetpea]

My impression is that students coming into university have a stronger Biology and Chemistry background than the corresponding US students. English skills, both on the spelling/grammar front and the composition front, are behind those of the average US student.

Also, secondary school leavers seem to have had little, if any, experience with public speaking. The public speaking could be partially a cultural thing, though. The North Americans in my class (n=20) are just much more confident, outgoing and comfortable speaking in front of a group -- even the most introverted American is better than almost any NZ student.

This could all be biased because of the tertiary students I have experience with, though. Veterinary Science will, of course, bring out the students good at Bio and Chem.

[aberdian]

Speaking at Primary from discussions with our boys teacher, the focus in early years is much more on skill based learning than on "fact" based learning, ie. you learn how to do stuff rather than about stuff. There's much less focus on maths as yet (year 3), zero science and to be honest, a heck of a lot of unfocussed and unrelated english exercises. So......not too impressed as yet, but it's early doors so we'll see how this term unfolds. Last term we coul;d tell when he hadn't been stimulated at school as he was a little in the evenings, which he normally isn't, so again, we'll see. Time will tell and these are just observations from a term and a half in.

[akp713]

I think the difficulty Kiwi students might have with public speaking is partly cultural and partly due to the field those student sweatpea spoke of, were in. Kiwis are less direct and don't like to be tall poppies. But in my university classes in NZ, in history and then in teacher training, there was ust as much debate and discussion from Kiwis as internationals. At the high school I've taught at there was a debate team started and they actually had a big debate against the teachers on wether teachers really know best. It was really great and some of the quietest kids in my class actually got up in front of an audience of teenagers and held their own against their teachers.