[migratory birds]

Taking a discussion from another ex-pat list...

How many of you parents and teachers are finding head lice to be a far worse problem in kids in NZ than in your home countries?

What are you finding the schools willing to do to manage the problem (head checks, sending infested kids home till they come back clear, offering information on effective treatments, etc)?

[Carol]

From a teacher's point of view - much worse here....

The only way I could manage it was

a) to study them..... the kids learnt all about them - their life cycle etc etc and then I told them to go and badger their parents until they were treated!
(Most parents were great about it - but it only takes one.....)

b) I got the kids to wear their school hats indoors. It kept them at bay!
This wasn't the most popular move from the principals point of view who saw it as "disrespectful" (???) to wear their hats indoors - but I was so sick of them in the classroom - sitting next to kids who were reading to me - and seeing them literally crawling over their heads.
yuk.

As an aside - this was a decile 10 school. They are very keen on nice clean heads!
We actually learnt a lot about them through the study... eg how some kids are more prone to them than others (even in the same family) and how they don't jump - it needs head contact to infect. How long they can survive off the head, how brushing helps because it breaks their legs etc.
The best thing though was the kids treat it all as very "matter of fact" and weren't too worried if they caught them.....
I gave them certificates when they finished their work with "I'm a nit expert" on them!
lol

One tip though - if you can get a bottle of shampoo sent out from the UK (or elsewhere) to treat them here in NZ, do it.
They seem to develop an immunity to certain local products over time...

[YouMeAndThree]

We actually learnt a lot about them through the study... eg how some kids are more prone to them than others (even in the same family)

My eldest daughter is one of those kids. Despite always playing closely with her younger sisters and sometimes sleeping in the same beds, they other two have never suffered as badly. DD1 has a constant problem and one that OH and I try everything to keep on top of. The best comb on the market we have found is the Nitty Gritty, but we do have a good selection (Shanty comb, metal lice combs, plastic etc. etc.) We have given up on lotions as they were no better than using cheap conditioner. We smother her in conditioner, comb it through, leave the conditioner in overnight and then comb again the following morning, wash hair through and repeat every couple of days. It's a never ending problem for her :no

To be excluded from school until it cleared up would be very detrimental to her education (based on how often she gets them). Obviously she's getting them from somewhere, but she's just a magnet, they seem to love her (poor child).

Sounds like it's still going to be an ongoing problem :no

[Carol]

oh dear - you have my sympathy - as does your daughter.

Its horrible isn't it. From a mum's point of view - you just want them GONE!

Is a Shanty comb an electronic one? You can get one in NZ called a Robicomb that zaps them dead. Worked really well for my wee girl.... but it doesn't get the nits (the eggs).

We used olive oil as a lubricant and that worked quite well for her.... I've heard of all sorts of different remedies including mayonnaise.

In the end it came down to me going through her hair a tiny section at a time and cutting out any strands with an egg attached. It took me hours and hours!

[ourquest]

One tip though - if you can get a bottle of shampoo sent out from the UK (or elsewhere) to treat them here in NZ, do it.
They seem to develop an immunity to certain local products over time...

I'd like to offer a non-chemical way of getting rid of them which worked when our three had an infestation about a year ago (before coming to NZ).
It requires some patience and good eyesight but is 100 percent effective.

Firstly comb out all the live lice using a "nit comb". You can tap the comb on a tray or something to dislodge the lice onto the tray for later disposal. Keep repeating this...the number that you get out of the hair will get less and less, and doing this over a couple of days will remove all of them. Examine the hair with a bright light while doing this.
Next, visually scan the hair for nits. These are the eggs which if left will hatch into new lice. The ones close to the scalp are the unhatched ones, but basically look for any and then cut that individual hair with scissors to remove it. It sounds tedious, but can be quite relaxing and satisfying. Keep scanning through the hair until you find no nits whatsoever.

We removed three boys' infestations within two days with no re-occurance. It took any fear of lice away knowing we could do that and also gave us the control of removing them, without having to trust a chemical shampoo which might not be effective anyway (by their own admission they do not necessarily work).

Lice are, of course, harmless to begin with, so at least there are no health complications associated with them.

Back to the original question, our school recently sent a note home indicating that they had found lice, and were very good with communicating ways to eradicate them and what to look for.

[ourquest]

Sounds like it's still going to be an ongoing problem :no

It is quite possible that you are not getting rid of all of the nits. This way they hatch and the whole process begins over. Granted with long or thick hair it might be rather more difficult to manually remove each hair as I suggest, but if it is such a problem it might be worth considering a short hairstyle?

Hope this helps.

[Carol]

lol
we must have posted at the same time....

Yes it was quite nice to do - although time consuming - we just had lots of videos to watch and she sat with her head on my lap while I did it....

[YouMeAndThree]

A Shanty comb (http://www.shantys.com/proddetail.php?prod=257-8953) is not electronic, basically it's got 2 rows of teeth, one finer than the other.

The Nitty Gritty (http://www.nittygritty.co.uk/ng/index.jsp?page=/productInfo.jsp&productId=3) is the best by far though. It's made of corkscrew type teeth which even pulls eggs out. Expensive, but worth it.

Lx

[dharder]

How many of you parents and teachers are finding head lice to be a far worse problem in kids in NZ than in your home countries?

We've had them recently, and as others have said, some of our kids are more prone to getting them than others.

We had them once in the UK, and I got a set of DVD with instructions and several combs and information from some official sounding disease control agency, they tell you everything you never wanted to know about headlice. Good video, and so far, the best combs we have come across (will look this up when at home, it really was most helpful).

They advocate the 'conditioner' approach, and state quite clearly that there is nothing a 'head lice shampoo or chemical' can do that regular cheap conditioner can't. All we do is comb everything out (with the conditioner), repeat after 3 days (which is the cycle in which they hatch), and if necessary, repeat again after three days.

Sending the kids home has always been a pet hate of mine in the UK. What's the point?? The only thing you do is make sure parents won't let anyone know their kids have headlice for fear of having them sent home, and it makes the whole thing worse.

Daniela

[YouMeAndThree]

It is quite possible that you are not getting rid of all of the nits. This way they hatch and the whole process begins over. Granted with long or thick hair it might be rather more difficult to manually remove each hair as I suggest, but if it is such a problem it might be worth considering a short hairstyle?

Hope this helps.

Trouble is, as mentioned already, she is one of those children who just seems to attract them. Our other 2 daughters have had them before, but very rarely. If all of them had them constantly I would have to agree that we are doing something wrong, but don't feel that is the case. She has shoulder length hair, not particularly thick, which she always wears up at school. It's very easy to comb through. We use the nit comb every other day and always do a treatment (with conditioner) wash once a week and I tend to manual remove the nits as opposed to cutting the individual hair (she'd have none left I'm sure otherwise, LOL) ........... and still she gets them :no

Always open to suggestions though :)

[Carol]

It makes you wonder doesn't it?
Why they are attracted to one and not the others... I know of many mums who have said exactly the same thing that you are saying... and they are meticulous too.

[ourquest]

Always open to suggestions though :)

I'm trying to brainstorm a solution...what about her bedding? She could be being re-infested from that if you are not treating this simultaneously? Is she inclined to share hats with other kids at her school or something (although it sounds like she could single handedly close the whole school down if she did this!;))?
I feel your frustration. She obviously is inclined to get them but they still have to come from somewhere?

[ourquest]

Of course they are apparently attracted to clean hair!
As Carol suggested they can become immune to certain products...so perhaps the conditioner and remover is just making the hair squeeky clean and a posh suburb for the lice to settle in?
But that wouldn't explain your other two not suffering (unless their hair just happens to be really dirty all the time). So I'm still stumped.

[Carol]

They dont survive long enough off the head to re-infest...

Have you looked at dietary supplements?
Treat her from the inside out so to speak.... I've no idea which ones may work - you would need to speak to a herbalist I guess...

[YouMeAndThree]

They dont survive long enough off the head to re-infest...

Have you looked at dietary supplements?
Treat her from the inside out so to speak.... I've no idea which ones may work - you would need to speak to a herbalist I guess...

I'm surprised there is not something like 'Frontline' that you use to treat fleas on cats and dogs. Not sure I want to fill her with chemicals though, but a herbal treatment, now there's an idea.

[Carol]

I'm surprised there is not something like 'Frontline' that you use to treat fleas on cats and dogs. Not sure I want to fill her with chemicals though, but a herbal treatment, now there's an idea.
Oh yeah - some of the parents proudly told me they had used Frontline itself..... one even used petrol. I kid you not.
I was absolutely mortified!!!!

I know a few drops of Tea-tree oil in your normal shampoo is meant to be a deterrent - got to get rid of the little b*****s first though!!!
lol

[ourquest]

They dont survive long enough off the head to re-infest...
.

Hmmm, Dr Google has mixed opinion on that one. Being a (rusty) scientist by training I can only guarantee the following:
If all the lice and nits are removed from the hair, any new lice must have been introduced from somewehere else! Ok, I didn't say I was a rocket scientist.
But anyone with constant infestations must be in direct contact with lice. After all, they apparently don't fly or swim very well.
I'm still stumped.

[ourquest]

one even used petrol.

Works really well if you light it.

[Carol]

Works really well if you light it.

:eek::exit

:laugh

[Parsley]

Would a mild electrical current kill/shock/shift them? Or is this idea almost as dumb as using petrol? :eek:

[Carol]

Would a mild electrical current kill/shock/shift them? Or is this idea almost as dumb as using petrol? :eek:


no - it does work....
http://www.robicomb.co.nz/


But then you still have the eggs to deal with......

[Parsley]

Oh, ok. Thanks! As you can tell, I know nothing about such things. Cat fleas, on the other hand......... :roll

[Angelonthemove]

I am an ex hairdressing lecturer, and when my daughter got them constantly I was at my wits end too. But you can not get away from the fact nits love clean hair.

solution for us was never wash her hair on a school night, keep her hair tied up and leave the conditioner in if you have to wash it or even the nit chemical solution. Once its dry you can not see the conditioner, but nits hated it.

Wash their hair on a Friday night so they have clean hair for the weekend.

We tried this for a month and it seem to break the cycle.

It's always one poor kid at the school who's parents do nothing that seems to spread to all the others.

Good luck all

[migratory birds]

solution for us was never wash her hair on a school night, keep her hair tied up and leave the conditioner in if you have to wash it or even the nit chemical solution. Once its dry you can not see the conditioner, but nits hated it.

Wash their hair on a Friday night so they have clean hair for the weekend.



And the hair doesn't have that oily/greasy/unwashed look if you leave the conditioner in to dry?

Here's a link to an informative head lice treatment using olive oil:

www.ci.madison.wi.us/health/phn/pdf_files/HeadLice.pdf

Carol, your tale of sitting next to kids and SEEING the lice crawling around is creepy! Thanks for the reminder that it's not a socioeconomic issue with your school being decile 10.

[migratory birds]

So why do you think the problem is worse in NZ?

Parents just not taking it seriously enough to be thorough and persistent with treatments??

Parents not aware their kids have lice??

Schools not having a policy to check kids who are scratching their heads? Or the heads of others in the class or school if there is a child discovered to have lice?

Not keeping kids home till they're lice-free? Letting kids back in school still with nits?

[migratory birds]

..... one even used petrol. I kid you not.

Kerosene used to be the treatment of choice that all our parents and/or grandparents would have used (if the head weren't shorn which is a GREAT treatment!) before the advent of all the chemical treatments that the lice are now becoming resistant to.

[peebles16]

My eldest son had a terrible time with nits back in Scotland but none so far here - as she touches something wooden :D The treatments and lotions were useless for him so we opted for a tea tree oil conditioner and combing on a regular basis and that tended to work better :yes Apparently nits don't like tea tree or something and we even got to the stage were we would dab some oil round his hairline..... There was one Mum in his school who believed nits were 'natural' and refused to treat her son who was obviously my son's bessie mate!?

Ooooh head itching just thinking about them..... :(

Karenx

[Carol]

Carol, your tale of sitting next to kids and SEEING the lice crawling around is creepy! .


I know - its hard not to jump up and move away..... I once picked a HUGE one off the top of a kid's head and said - "Oh let me break this little critters legs for you"

eeeuw
The joys of teaching!
lol

[YouMeAndThree]

I know - its hard not to jump up and move away..... I once picked a HUGE one off the top of a kid's head and said - "Oh let me break this little critters legs for you"

eeeuw
The joys of teaching!
lol


That's just reminded me. Last week my Mum was keeping an eye on the girls. When I got home she said "I think I found a visitor! It was huge, so I've saved it for you to check":uhoh - so I checked in the tissue she passed me. She'd only gone and crushed a fly! :laugh:laugh

[JandM]

I know - its hard not to jump up and move away..... I once picked a HUGE one off the top of a kid's head and said - "Oh let me break this little critters legs for you"

eeeuw
The joys of teaching!
lol
The first time I ever saw nits was in my first term of teaching in a boarding school. A boy said, 'Oh, my head does itch,' and when I looked down at him, his scalp was like the London rush-hour. 'Er, go and see Matron,' I said, glad it wasn't mine to deal with!

But the next phase was that everybody in the whole school, staff as well, was asked to use the then special shampoo of choice - can't remember the name, so let's call it Elvarol. I went into Boots in the next town and asked at the pharmacy counter, 'Could I have a tube of Elvarol?' 'Pardon?' said the assistant. I said it a bit louder. 'Oh, ELVAROL,' said the woman, in a voice that would've carried over a Force 10 gale. 'That's that stuff for people what have got nits.' And everybody in the shop took two sharp steps away from me.:exit

[nippa&pippa]

Schools not having a policy to check kids who are scratching their heads? Or the heads of others in the class or school if there is a child discovered to have lice?


Oddly we received this letter yesterday
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/nippa101/nit.jpg

and another note said

Headlice
Accompanying the newletter today is information on the treatment of headlice.
In future a reminder letter to a whole class will sent home when parents report a case of their child's healice to the class teacher. the bottom portion of this form needs to be filled in and returned to the class teacher.

I asked my son yesterday that did anyone look at his hair? YES
I looked at his hair last night, no headlice so far....

[Familyofmonkeys]

A friend of mine in UK used to use that spray in leave in conditioner on her daughters hair when she had headlice....aparently the johnsons stuff can be used on wet and dry hair so you could use it even when hair not washed.

[sizzlingbadger]

We swear by tea tree shampoo now, don't use anything else. Got recommended to us by two seperate hairdressers. Our kids only get their hair washed once a week to, any more than that and it dries out.

Unfortunately for us all three of ours got them at the same time :uhoh Just used a comb and liquid treatment, worked really well and after a couple of treatments they were gone. Kept an eye on them for a couple of months after and they never came back. Our eldest boy was the worst, he had loads of the critters.

School has a policy for all girls to wear their hair up if it's shoulder length down, although in saying that I know one of my friend's daughter had her hair cut short and ended up getting them after having long hair :(

I don't think it matters which country you're in it's always an ongoing problem.

[Tia Maria]

Our school has plenty of problems with them but as there is no nit nurse and I think plenty of parents aren't vigilant enough, I can't see them going away any time soon. :(

We were sent a form like Nippa & Pippas and have to agree, using conditioner to stop them moving, then combing with a double toothed comb seems to work. I suspect many people just don't do it for long enough for any eggs to hatch and the newly hatched to become big enough to be combed out - 2 weeks.

Having seen one alive on the pillow, long after it should be, I do wash all bedding and hats etc.

In the end I just cut my son's hair off, this has worked the best in terms of stopping re-infection. In fact quite often a few of the children turn up with particularly severe haircuts and its pretty clear why. :)

Personally I'd like to see the re-introduction of the nit nurse, in an effort to try targeting the parents that don't bother.

Here's another thread about it - maybe some useful tips on there:

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16323

Cheers

Tia

[nippa&pippa]

In the end I just cut my son's hair off, this has worked the best in terms of stopping re-infection. In fact quite often a few of the children turn up with particularly severe haircuts and its pretty clear why. :)


My son's hair is always very short, hairdresser use shaver set at no 2 for side and no 3 for top (i got it right?) so chance of him getting nit is low?

[mgbridges]

My son's hair is always very short, hairdresser use shaver set at no 2 for side and no 3 for top (i got it right?) so chance of him getting nit is low?

My DS has always had his hair cut as a No. 3 all over ever since he started school. We get it done pretty regularly as his hair is thick and it becomes hardwork if we let it get too long. To date he has never had nits. I just keep touching wood and hoping he never does as the idea of having to get rid of them just turns my stomach!

Anneliese

[Sam B]

Ouch, I haven't stopped scratching since I started reading this thread.

Doesn't seem worse than the UK here to me, the kids were constantly catching headlice in Cornwall.

[sizzlingbadger]

Well even a no 1 haircut doesn't stop them getting them, as this is what my son had when he got them ! :exit

Short hair cuts just seem to make them more visible :o

[Paul]

We swear by tea tree shampoo now, don't use anything else. Got recommended to us by two seperate hairdressers. Our kids only get their hair washed once a week to, any more than that and it dries out.


Same here - we tried various special shampoos but mixed sucess as they kept coming back. Tea tree shampoo and spray in conditioner that you leave in seems to have worked well for us as daughter hasn't had them since.

As others have said its the parents who do nothing at the nursery that are the problem unfortunately. Obviously schools and nursery's these days cannot do anything about the problem as their hands are tied - its down to the parents - unfortunately we all know what some parents are like these days wherever you may live :roll

[BkyMonster]

I had a friend when i was younger, had lots of very long hair. Got lice and could never get rid of them despite all kinds of treatments. She even used mayonnaise! Of course they never seemed to want to jump off her either. Was lice paradise on her head. :laugh

When I was in grade school half the class got head lice from a bean-bag chair in the classroom. If your kids are getting reinfected see if there is furniture somewhere passing it on.

I once got the *other* kind of lice (not typically associated with the head :D) on my head from a job at a clothing store. That was pretty dreadful. They were easy to get rid of though.

[YouMeAndThree]

I once got the *other* kind of lice (not typically associated with the head :D) on my head from a job at a clothing store. That was pretty dreadful. They were easy to get rid of though.

TMI! :laugh