[Joolzr]

We wondered why peple were giving us slightly odd looks on Sunday when we took our bikes out for a spin. Turns out helmets are compulsay here. Wish I'd known as I left mine in storage in the UK.

So pack yours helmets folks!

Julie

[migratory birds]

Good to hear they're compulsory. As much as I'd love the feeling of flying along on my bike without one, I value my cognitive abilities and all the benefits therein too much to go without one.

So do you see kids flying along on their bikes with the helmet on but not fastened? Or the helmet dangling off the handlebars?

Are helmets compulsory for motorcyclists, too, then?

[sweetpea]

So do you see kids flying along on their bikes with the helmet on but not fastened? Or the helmet dangling off the handlebars?

Kids here seem to be very good at wearing their helmets correctly, thankfully!

[willsken]

That happened to my boys the first time they rode their bikes here. They didn't just get the funny looks, they were told off by a couple of people. :uhoh

[nickydwuk]

What happens if you ride without one (apart from the risk of serious injury!!)? My son bikes all the time and has never worn a helmet - even though we bought him one when he first started riding to school.

[Parsley]

Dunno - the Ozzies give you a fine :uhoh

[KerryS]

You can be fined if you are caught riding without a helmet. I think from memory the fine is $55, but happy to be corrected on that.
There is a fact sheet here: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/01.html
which has details about the rules regarding cycling on the road in NZ.

[IanW99]

You can be fined if you are caught riding without a helmet. I think from memory the fine is $55, but happy to be corrected on that.
There is a fact sheet here: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/01.html
which has details about the rules regarding cycling on the road in NZ.

From the factisheet is states (if you don't wear the helmet)

If you don't, you could get an infringement fine or be taken to court.

Ian

[wilson182]

What happens if you ride without one (apart from the risk of serious injury!!)? My son bikes all the time and has never worn a helmet - even though we bought him one when he first started riding to school.


He will most likely be happy to wear one here because virtually everyone does. (including all his new friends:nice1)

[Joolzr]

I'm sure we cycled straight past at least one policeman!

J

[Flutterby]

Do the english helmets meet the NZ safety ratings? or would i be better off to purchase a new one when i get there?

[NikT]

What happens if you ride without one (apart from the risk of serious injury!!)? My son bikes all the time and has never worn a helmet - even though we bought him one when he first started riding to school.

Saw a cop giving someone a rollocking yesterday for no cycle helmet.:exit

Nick.:cheers

[mackstann]

That really sucks. Probably the biggest downside to NZ for me so far.

If you actually look into the information available about helmets, you will find that they are not clearly beneficial, and to some extent may even have the opposite effect. In any case, the evidence is nowhere near overwhelming enough to actually force people to wear them. All it does is discourage casual cycling and guarantee profits for helmet companies. (who sponsor many of the studies and lobby for the laws)

I guess there's ignorance no matter what country you go to. :(

[dharder]

That really sucks. Probably the biggest downside to NZ for me so far.

Really? Wearing a cycle helmet? I have a list of downsides as long as my arm, but wearing a cycle helmet is not on it...

I have cycled all my life without one, and I've been fine. But the difference is that I cycled in Germany, where you can get to most places (if not all) safely by bike on a cycle path, usually separate from the road. Cars pay attention to cycles, and children are allowed (actually have to) go on footpaths till they are 8 (can until they are 10). You see families with kids cycle, and bikes are a regular and accepted means of transport. In that climate, I don't think the added safety value of a helmet would really make it necessary to have it compulsory (it isn't).

Here, it's a totally different matter. Cars don't care, and the level of aggression they display towards cyclists is shocking. Bikes are not accepted as members traffic with equal rights to the road, and I often find myself in situations where I feel like they're out to 'get' me.

The added value of a helmet in an unsafe environment like the one in Auckland is infinitely greater than the one in Germany or the Netherlands.

So on my list of downsides, the attitude towards cyclists is an item, I've got no problem with the helmet.

Daniela

[mackstann]

Really? Wearing a cycle helmet? I have a list of downsides as long as my arm, but wearing a cycle helmet is not on it...

I have cycled all my life without one, and I've been fine. But the difference is that I cycled in Germany, where you can get to most places (if not all) safely by bike on a cycle path, usually separate from the road. Cars pay attention to cycles, and children are allowed (actually have to) go on footpaths till they are 8 (can until they are 10). You see families with kids cycle, and bikes are a regular and accepted means of transport. In that climate, I don't think the added safety value of a helmet would really make it necessary to have it compulsory (it isn't).

Here, it's a totally different matter. Cars don't care, and the level of aggression they display towards cyclists is shocking. Bikes are not accepted as members traffic with equal rights to the road, and I often find myself in situations where I feel like they're out to 'get' me.

The added value of a helmet in an unsafe environment like the one in Auckland is infinitely greater than the one in Germany or the Netherlands.

So on my list of downsides, the attitude towards cyclists is an item, I've got no problem with the helmet.

Daniela

It's more the principle of enforcing it that bothers me, although helmets themselves are also fairly annoying. It has been a challenge to even figure out what the cycling atmosphere is like in Wellington, although discovering the vorb forum has helped. Even then, most discussions seem centered on mountain biking. The cycling culture in general seems quite a bit less developed than here in Portland which is unfortunate, but something I can live with.

[dharder]

The cycling culture in general seems quite a bit less developed than here in Portland which is unfortunate, but something I can live with.

I don't know about Wellington, but here in Auckland, I find a disctinct lack of cycling culture. I had to go to the student support centre of the University of Auckland the other day, and they had no bike stands to lock my bike to!!! A university with no bike stands!

I have lived in London for the last 11 years, and even at my East London uni more people cycled than here.

What really bothers me the most is the attitude. You know, people tell you you don't have a right to the street because you dont' pay road tax, and they haven't got their heads round the fact that anything that can potentially reduce car traffic (cycle lanes, bus lanes, etc) is a good thing.

Sigh.

Daniela

[wiki]

That really sucks. Probably the biggest downside to NZ for me so far.

If you actually look into the information available about helmets, you will find that they are not clearly beneficial, and to some extent may even have the opposite effect. In any case, the evidence is nowhere near overwhelming enough to actually force people to wear them. All it does is discourage casual cycling and guarantee profits for helmet companies. (who sponsor many of the studies and lobby for the laws)

I guess there's ignorance no matter what country you go to. :(

You used to be able to get cycle helmets discounted through your school when they first became compulsory,and the companies didn't take advantage.

The woman behind the push is called Rebecca Oaten - she went to pretty much every school in NZ (including mine) and told us about her son who flew over his handlebars when a parked driver opened his car door. Her son landed on his head and was permanently brain-damaged.

I, and many of my friends, wouldn't have worn a helmet before hearing that story and seeing pictures of her son being winched out of his bed changed our minds.

When I got to the UK I thought the majority of cyclists were mad not to be wearing helmets!

[benandclare]

That really sucks. Probably the biggest downside to NZ for me so far.

If you actually look into the information available about helmets, you will find that they are not clearly beneficial, and to some extent may even have the opposite effect. In any case, the evidence is nowhere near overwhelming enough to actually force people to wear them. All it does is discourage casual cycling and guarantee profits for helmet companies. (who sponsor many of the studies and lobby for the laws)

I guess there's ignorance no matter what country you go to. :(

I like to indulge in casual cycling when ever possible and pop my helmet on as a matter of course, in the same way as I fasten my seat belt in a car and dont consider that it detracts from my enjoyment.
Clare's time in Neuro and seeing too many duffed in heads from cycle accidents is more than enough evidence for me

[mackstann]

The woman behind the push is called Rebecca Oaten - she went to pretty much every school in NZ (including mine) and told us about her son who flew over his handlebars when a parked driver opened his car door. Her son landed on his head and was permanently brain-damaged.

I, and many of my friends, wouldn't have worn a helmet before hearing that story and seeing pictures of her son being winched out of his bed changed our minds

A single occurrence out of millions of people was enough to convince you of the statistical likelihood of something? There are many occurrences of death and injury to pedestrians yet you find no one crusading for pedestrian helmets, or even greater pedestrian caution, or really anything relating to pedestrians. No one cares. The same applies to household accidents and many other things. Being persuaded by one lady who is obviously biased is an awful way to objectively examine an issue. (Lack of) Helmets have become the great scapegoat of cycling.

[chocolate cake]

Do the english helmets meet the NZ safety ratings? or would i be better off to purchase a new one when i get there?


Definitely be worth buying in the UK has they are VAT free IIRC which is not the case in NZ. I doubt there's much of standard applied on what cycling lid you're wearing, it's more the fact you have to wear one.

I agree with a previous poster it's the principal of having to wear one that's annoying. In the UK, I probably wore one 95% of the time anyway.

Certainly the available evidence suggests that compulsary cycle helmet wearing is a disincentive to cycling.

Re: the safety argument, car drivers and passengers would also be safer in an accident if they wore a helmet, and likewise pedestrains too but they are no rules there!

I commute in to work daily, and would wear one in any case as the traffic (in Auckland in any case) and NZ drivers are generally very bad.

[M-Squared]

That really sucks. Probably the biggest downside to NZ for me so far.

If you actually look into the information available about helmets, you will find that they are not clearly beneficial, and to some extent may even have the opposite effect. In any case, the evidence is nowhere near overwhelming enough to actually force people to wear them. All it does is discourage casual cycling and guarantee profits for helmet companies. (who sponsor many of the studies and lobby for the laws)

I guess there's ignorance no matter what country you go to. :(

3 options:

1. Suck it up, and move to NZ and wear a helmet
2. Move somewhere else
3. Move to NZ and get into politics to get helmet laws revoked (and endanger our children)

C'est tout.

[wiki]

A single occurrence out of millions of people was enough to convince you of the statistical likelihood of something? There are many occurrences of death and injury to pedestrians yet you find no one crusading for pedestrian helmets, or even greater pedestrian caution, or really anything relating to pedestrians. No one cares. The same applies to household accidents and many other things. Being persuaded by one lady who is obviously biased is an awful way to objectively examine an issue. (Lack of) Helmets have become the great scapegoat of cycling.

Wow you really are angry about his aren'tyou?

I was 13 and the "single occurrence" (although I knew that he wasn't the only kid to have been seriously injured/dead from not wearing a cycle helmet) - complete with graphic photographs and video - was enough to convince me I didn't want my parents to have to feed me through a tube or change nappies all over again.

The rule is there to protect younger cyclists. It's extended to older cyclists to esnure they set a good example for younger cyclists.

I don't give a damn about your statistical probabilities -it's the law here so either cycle with, cyle without or don't cycle... but be it on your own head.

[mylesdw]

I was 13 and the "single occurrence" (although I knew that he wasn't the only kid to have been seriously injured/dead from not wearing a cycle helmet) - complete with graphic photographs and video - was enough to convince me I didn't want my parents to have to feed me through a tube or change nappies all over again.


That certainly is a victory of hysteria over logic. On that basis I trust that you also don't ride in motor cars, or cross the road, or travel by air or rail, or stand under large trees etc etc...

[James 1077]

Cycle helmets don't increase or decrease the chance of injury from bikes. UK studies have shown that cars drive closer to bikes where the riders have a helmet on (which could be due to car drivers thinking that the cyclist is safer so not being as careful, or the cyclist thinking that they are safer so not being as careful or the sort of cyclist who wears a helmet being one who would more often come into close proximity with cars - the main problem of statistics is that they can often show correlation but not causation!).

The main thing that they do, however, cause is a decrease in cycling as people are discouraged from going off on their bikes when they know that they need to take a helmet and so carry it around with them when they get to where they are going.

Personally I think that it should be a matter of choice - the statistical likelihood of it saving your life is so minimal that it gets lost in the noise of the sample but this won't stop single-issue-lobbyists from nannying everybody.


Motorcycle helmets are a completely different kettle of fish though - in every state of America where the requirement to wear one was dropped the accident, injury and death rate went down. While you were more likely to die if you had an accident you were less likely to have an accident (which could be due to the fact that you can hear much better without a helmet, had better neck movement so could see better or come down to something like Jaspar Carrot's philosophy that the best thing to do to improve road safety would be to stick a big sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel!).

[mackstann]

The thing is that you can argue either side of the issue until you're blue in the face and the other guy will always have a retort. That's why I like the wikipedia page for "bicycle helmet" -- it presents almost every argument from either side and lets you think it over for yourself. The statistics are so ambiguous that I just take the position that there's no clear answer to whether or not helmets are a good thing. And I don't think governments should force you to do something when there's no clear benefit.

[dharder]

That's why I like the wikipedia page for "bicycle helmet" -- it presents almost every argument from either side and lets you think it over for yourself.

Thanks for mentioning that page, it was a really interesting read.

Kind of confirmed my suspicion that if cycling is a normal, accepted part of everday life, an accepted means of transport and lots of people do it, it will become safer. I love the term 'utility cycling' in the wikipedia article, that is exactly the kind of thing I am missing here: people don't get from A to B on a bike, they 'train' for some event...

Until a cyclist is not such a freak here anymore, I will wear a helmet, I will make my children wear a helmet, but when on holiday in Germany, I will enjoy the freedom of safely cycling everywhere with hair blowing wildly in the wind...

Daniela

[mackstann]

Can anyone comment on the state of utility cycling in close-in Wellington? (CBD, Mt. Victoria, Te Aro)

[chocolate cake]

Well wearing my cycle helmet on the bike yesterday I was attacked by a large magpie. It gave me a hell of shock, and it wasn't as if I was going slow either, on a fast descent so it was bl*ody dangerous especially as it kept coming back.

[ellenmelon]

i would never not wear a helmet. i'm not sure about making it compulsory for adults but i would wonder why you wouldn't leave it as compulsory for kids. have to read up more on it...

when i was...about 9 or 10 i was cycling on the private road outside our house. we lived down a long drive way that was down a hill. it was great fun to ride down the bottom bit of the hill onto the flat. one night i did it without my helmet on, went down the hill and somehow i came off my bike and was knocked unconcious. my younger sister tried to help me inside (i was drifting in and out of conciousness) but couldn't. dad took me to the hospital and i remember drifting in and out of conciousness. i ended up with the whole left side of my face and head scraped, swollen and bruised and a big lump on my head. i had to stay in the hospital for a couple of nights which was really scary for me. took me a while to get back on a bike without being totally petrified. so never would i not wear a helmet now. i think for kids riding on their street or driveway they should wear them. i agree they would be less likely to help if you were knocked over by a car rather than just fell off.

just my two cents.

[tea drinker]

Re the magpie attack Chocolate Cake...were you near it's nesting area?
I know that certain birds will attack humans if they go into the birds space.

Good job you were wearing your hemet...it's not black and white is it?

Hope that you are OK.

[bob_the_engineer]

The thing is that you can argue either side of the issue until you're blue in the face and the other guy will always have a retort. That's why I like the wikipedia page for "bicycle helmet" -- it presents almost every argument from either side and lets you think it over for yourself. The statistics are so ambiguous that I just take the position that there's no clear answer to whether or not helmets are a good thing. And I don't think governments should force you to do something when there's no clear benefit.

Mackstann, you seem like an intelligent guy, maybe you could end the debate on cycle helmets, I’ve devised an experiment for you.

Put on a helmet and run head first into the wall, take the helmet off and do it again, hay you could post the results on wikipedia, let the world know which hurt’s most.


Bob

P.S I’ll look forward to seeing you receive your Darwin award. :nice1

[mackstann]

Mackstann, you seem like an intelligent guy, maybe you could end the debate on cycle helmets, I’ve devised an experiment for you.

Put on a helmet and run head first into the wall, take the helmet off and do it again, hay you could post the results on wikipedia, let the world know which hurt’s most.


Bob

P.S I’ll look forward to seeing you receive your Darwin award. :nice1

I probably won't be able to complete the second test, due to brain damage from rotational injury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Rotational_injury) caused by the helmet. :)

[IanW99]

I probably won't be able to complete the second test, due to brain damage from rotational injury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Rotational_injury) caused by the helmet. :)

Interesting, surely if you do suffer a rotational injury then you won't have followed the test steps correctly:confused:.

I'm not even sure that I understand how rotational injuries would be worse wearing a bicycle helmet? It is described that it is thought that it is worse because a helmet increases the distance from the centre of the spine to the outside of the helmet, and then goes onto describe that the results were 30% higher than with a full face motorcycle helmet which I would assume would have the same dimensions from the centre of the spine:confused:

It also says that there may be no obvious superficial damage if you wear a helmet, whilst I assume hitting the road at 45kph without a helmet would clearly shows signs of damage?

So are we saying that bicycle helmets should be more like full face motorcycle helmets... think I'm finally understanding all the concerns about bicycle helments, it isn't that they aren't any good its just that we should have even better full face versions :nice1.

Ian

[James 1077]

Mackstann, you seem like an intelligent guy, maybe you could end the debate on cycle helmets, I’ve devised an experiment for you.

Put on a helmet and run head first into the wall, take the helmet off and do it again, hay you could post the results on wikipedia, let the world know which hurt’s most.



Probably the first - as you'll fly into the wall without too much second thought as you'll be safe ('cos you are wearing a helmet).

The next time you won't take the same sort of a risk as you don't have the "security" of a helmet so will be much more careful!

:D

[ourquest]

I'm not even sure that I understand how rotational injuries would be worse wearing a bicycle helmet? It is described that it is thought that it is worse because a helmet increases the distance from the centre of the spine to the outside of the helmet, and then goes onto describe that the results were 30% higher than with a full face motorcycle helmet which I would assume would have the same dimensions from the centre of the spine:confused:

I understand the study to be referring to the distance from the centre of the spine looking down the axis of the spine, ie as viewed from the top of the head (if you stick your arms out then your hands are further away from your spine than your shoulders). The more the helmet sticks out around the head then the more leverage it imparts to the neck when taking a strike along its side, or rather the less the neck is able to prevent the turning (rotating) of the head. With some cycle helmets projecting quite far behind the head (for aerodynamic reasons) this might have influenced the test results.

To others posting here, as far as the resentment against wearing a helmet is concerned it's all about adaptation. Once you have worn a helmet for a while it is likely that you will feel naked without it and you have then adapted as you will prefer wearing it. If you resist the concept of adapting, don't, because the single biggest factor in your ability to emigrate successfully is your ability to adapt.

[KelvinAng]

Are helmets compulsory for motorcyclists, too, then?

Yep they are, and they include low-powered motor scooters which can be classified as a "moped" (as opposed to a "motorcycle") drivable on a car license. So far I've only seen one bloke on a scooter without a helmet (which is illegal) and one on a scooter with a bicycle helmet (which I'm not sure if it's legal or not).

[tea drinker]

Going off slightly the topic of helmets...are there 'cycle' paths/lanes in NZ?

[dilanium]

Palmy has cycle lanes on almost all of the major roads. I didn't see any when I visited Wellington though.

[dharder]

Going off slightly the topic of helmets...are there 'cycle' paths/lanes in NZ?

I only cycle in Auckland, so don't know about the rest. In principal, no, there aren't cycle paths, just a couple of exceptions: There is one along Tamaki Drive which is very scenic, but in parts quite a bumpy ride (roots of trees bringing up the surface). This is a shared cyclists/pedestrians path, and in general, pedestrians don't seem to be aware of this.

There are a few bits and pieces on the road (in green), and the green boxes in front of the traffic lights at stops are becoming more common.

I think you can use all bus lanes as a bike (with exceptions), but bus lanes are about as common as cycle paths, so not much gain there...

Can you tell I'm bitter :)

Like chocolatecake (on this forum), I commute to work in Auckland by bike, and having said all of the above, I acutally have some kind of provision for bikes on I'd say about half my way to work, so it could be worse.

I've looked at some cycling in Auckland websites, and found a really interesting article comparing cycling in countries like the UK, Australia and the US (and for cycling purposes, NZ would be among them) to the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany and it has been a very, very interesting read. Depressing, yes, but interesting. Will find the link when back at home.

Daniela

[benandclare]

Going off slightly the topic of helmets...are there 'cycle' paths/lanes in NZ?

Lots here in Christchurch :nice1

[KelvinAng]

Going off slightly the topic of helmets...are there 'cycle' paths/lanes in NZ?

I think they are also known as "auxiliary parking lanes" and "left-hand-side overtaking lanes" in parts of the country :D

[StevieD]

I think my friend back in UK rues the day she "forgot" to wear her cycle helmet when riding in the lake district. She was involved in an accident resulting in her head banging in to a stationary van. Result, numerous strokes since and she is a changed woman.... sad really as she was a very intelligent, lively woman. This has now affected her position as head of maths, but the irony was that she had the helmet, just didn't bother to wear it.

[AndyR]

I always wear a helmet and didn't know it was compulsory here, makes sense why even the cool kids were wearing them coming home from school lol

To be honest tho, if I do any off road biking id get a full face helmet again, As I had a particularly nasty fall and its only the front piece that stopped my jaw being smashed to bits against the handle bars.

[Kerry and David]

I'm pleased it is compulsory. I remember when I was at primary school, a kid finished doing a cycle safety course in the school grounds, rode outside and took is helmet off as it wasn't 'cool'. The helmet was hanging on his handle bars as he got hit by a car riding home, he suffered brain damage and they turned the life support machine off. It's a story that has also stuck with me.