[goaters]

Hi from the Isle of Arran

Me (Nick) and my wife gail where planing to move to Nelson in oct 08, but as we are expecting our 1st child in mid jan 09 this has put things back a tad,we will now try for late 09.

Our plan is to go to NewZealand on a holiday visa, and for me to get work as a joiner/carpenter when we arrive.

I have 25 years in the trade but my qualifications are not up to the required NVQ4 standard to allow me to make up the points.

Also any advice on baby's and longhall flights as well as the above would be most helpfull.

I have to say this site dose seem to have a very friendly and helpfull way adout it, how pepole managed to get all this information before the internet is amazing

Looking forward to some advice

Nick

[icemaiden]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your impending bundle of joy. My own 'baby' is now 22 so its a long time since I took him on a flight: someone will be along soon to share their more recent experiences. Nelson looks a wonderful choice - we considered that ourselves for a while and tbh probably haven't definitely ruled it out if the right job comes along. We're planning to move Dec 2009 so around the same time as yourselves. Good luck with all your plans and keep all the questions coming. As you say, whatever did we all do without the internet!

[Mrs Pony]

welcome!

We don't have kids... want one maybe 5 years from now... but to me the worst thing is a screaming kid...especially on a plane that you can't get off! We have no patience for it and I know we can't be the only ones...

We were thinking about coming back to the US (if we ever get to NZ in the first place) when we were ready to have kids but then we thought that if we have a kid in NZ they would have dual citizenship which would benefit jr when he got older

just my .02

[JandL]

Heres a thread which may help:
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18781

[JandM]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.:)

Lots of people travel with babies. Of course it can be hard work for the parents, if the small person is unhappy about something. But many are happy a lot of the time - look on the bright side! I know when my son and d-i-l came to the UK with my grandson at 11 months, they found that when he was awake, walking him around the plane and talking about what there was to see kept him occupied, and the aircrew were very good with talking to him, too, and providing plenty of water. They had various activity packs, too.

Mrs Pony, I do think you perhaps need to rethink the concept of children - we ALL started out as 'a screaming kid', and had those around us watching out and taking care of us, or we wouldn't be here now. Babies cry as their only means of communicating, not for fun. Parents mostly try their best to respond to their child's needs, but when the baby feels there is really something wrong that can't be put right - like for instance, if they're afraid in an unfamiliar environment, or would love to be asleep in their own bed when actually they're miles from home - there is nothing that can be done, and they suffer more than anyone, to know that their little one is distressed. In that case, both the parents AND the baby deserve sympathy.

[Mrs Pony]

Mrs Pony, I do think you perhaps need to rethink the concept of children - we ALL started out as 'a screaming kid', and had those around us watching out and taking care of us, or we wouldn't be here now. Babies cry as their only means of communicating, not for fun. Parents mostly try their best to respond to their child's needs, but when the baby feels there is really something wrong that can't be put right - like for instance, if they're afraid in an unfamiliar environment, or would love to be asleep in their own bed when actually they're miles from home - there is nothing that can be done, and they suffer more than anyone, to know that their little one is distressed. In that case, both the parents AND the baby deserve sympathy.

Hopefully some day! hence the maybe 5 years from now. :) just found out SIL is going to have a baby in April! It just seems like here parents just ignore the screaming... example... I was in Target and a mom and daughter (maybe 5) were in the fitting rooms... the girl was crying and screaming for 20 minutes! The mom walked out like she didn't hear it and the girl kept screaming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxuMKb5CKI0

Sorry for the hijack...

[Hagabel]

Firstly welcome to the forum and congrats on your upcoming arrival!

To Mrs Pony:

Kids scream for a reason or if they are having a temper tantrum. Maybe the Mum was ignoring it so as not to give in to her daughter and give her some attention which is probably what she is looking for. I have not flown with my kids (1 and 3) and I also do not like screaming kids for hours in an airplane but I bet the parents hate it even more. I hope, when I fly with my kids that I have some people around me who are also parents and a little more empathetic!!!
:exit

[Mrs Pony]

gesh... sorry... I didn't mean to come off harsh... I understand that they cry it just bugs me when the parents ignore a tempter tantrum it because not everyone else can... Just seems like here in the US kids get away with anything now and have no manners... When I was little and had a tantrum I would get The Look or "wait til your father gets home" and I knew that it was time to stop...

[ldlim]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the baby. There are quite a few posts with suggestions on how best to prepare for your flight with young children. We will be taking the jump in Jan/Feb 09 with our three young ones (6mos, 3yo, 4yo)

Mrs Pony - Wow. :( Think a 13hr+ flight is hard on you - imagine how difficult it is for a baby/toddler who just wants his bed/home and familiar surroundings. Parenting requires a lot of patience - its not for everyone. Very smart of you to recognize you aren't ready.

[JandL]

As has already been said, kids throw a paddy and one of the worst things to do is to give in to them, as they then know that they can do it over and over again and get what they want. What appears to be screaming children, is actually a lesson for them. Kids don't care that others are listening, and a good parent would not either.
On a 14 hour flight (to spain, which actually is 2 hours.... dont ask) two ladies were thrown off the flight after getting so angry at kids screaming when flying. Taking off and landing are the worst. You can often do something to keep them busy but it does not always work.

Being stuck in a 3 foot space with a child on your lap for hours is not the ideal situation for a parent, think how the child feels! (especially when the nice person in front leans their seat back to give you 2 feet of space).

[Parsley]

Hello and welcome! Which bit of Arran are you from? My family's from Lamlash.

P:D

[Georgebulldog]

Hi & Welcome & congratulations on the baby
We have flown lots with our 1st daughter & each time I wind myself up beforehand but she's always been fine, I wouldn't stress too much just take it as it comes
Hope I haven't jinxed myself for our next flight, 1st time witgh 2 kids :D

[nippa&pippa]

Mrs Pony, I do think you perhaps need to rethink the concept of children - we ALL started out as 'a screaming kid', and had those around us watching out and taking care of us, or we wouldn't be here now. Babies cry as their only means of communicating, not for fun. Parents mostly try their best to respond to their child's needs, but when the baby feels there is really something wrong that can't be put right - like for instance, if they're afraid in an unfamiliar environment, or would love to be asleep in their own bed when actually they're miles from home - there is nothing that can be done, and they suffer more than anyone, to know that their little one is distressed. In that case, both the parents AND the baby deserve sympathy.

:clap

Even going to friends' houses, my 11months baby get upset for first half hour last sunday (or longer than? can't remember as we were chatting:laugh) because he doesn't remember this house, her two dogs etc, so took while before he could relax and Moorf was able to hold him later.
For tantrum, "The Look" doesn't work till child is old enough to understand. Child at 2 like my daughter hasn't full grasp that she had to "wait" or "no, later", she just throw tantrum and only way it work, I just walk away because fussy her will make it lots worse. She realise quickly that I really mean it by walk away, usually shut her up asap!:roll
Mrs Pony, wait till you have your own child to understand, there will be huge learning curve with your patience as your patience is one of most important skills when have childrenbecause when they trying to tell you what they want with limited languages they got. If failed, tantrum is brewing!:exit

[nippa&pippa]

Right, congratulations on pregnancy, ohh I am broody! I want another one *threw tantrum on the floor* :D

I was pregnant with middle child when my OH suggested about moving to NZ :exit, not ideal time to suggest with hormones all over the place! However we have travelled to NZ for reccie when my middle child was 9 weeks old and then move to NZ for good when middle child was 9months old. Flight with babies isn't hard, just flying with toddler is harder. My OH found it hard work to keep just 3 years old occupied in the plane than I did with a baby because she did sleep most of time in the skycot. Depend on which airline you going to fly with, worth to check what is age/weight limit for using skycot for your baby before you can think about "when to move" because skycot is must have for people who is flying with baby :nice1 ie you got somewhere to put sleeping baby in while you are eating your meals.

Do search 'plane + child', you will find lots of thread covering on flying with children and babies.
Good Luck

[peebles16]

Welcome along for the ride from us too :)

As for flying with babies I'd agree with Nippa&Pippa flying with toddler is much more of a challenge :yes Our then 3.5 yr old needed constantly entertained on the flight over and didn't sleep at all for the second leg whereas we had done long haul flights when the boys were babies and they were great. I was soooo wound up about the flight here as my kids are 'boisterous' but actually, whilst I don't want to do it again in a hurry, it really wasn't that bad :)

Best of luck
Karenx

[goaters]

Well it seems i was right about this site, very helpfull and imformative.

As for the screaming baby on the plane bit, i would have to say that until very recently i would have agreed with Mrs Pony 100%, but as our situation has changed so have our views on this obviously delicate subject.
I can still see both sides of the coin.

Well Parsley, it's a very small world isn't, we live in Whiting Bay, about 4 miles from Lamlash.

I know six pepole who have moved from Arran to NZ inthe past few years, must be the midges.

All the replies have been very helpfull on the baby front, thank you all.

Any views on the holiday visa to work permit plan.

Many Thanks

Nick & Gail

[Kiwi-In-Texas]

Hello and welcome.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Right, congratulations on pregnancy, ohh I am broody! I want another one *threw tantrum on the floor* :D

Me too :D


Congratualtions on pregnancy! We were in similar situation and had to wait until I had baby to move to NZ. We flew over when youngest was 12 weeks old. Only thing I can add to other comments is that we found it a lot easier travelling before baby got to weaning age as you need less stuff with you for the journey...and if you are bf then you wouldn't even need bottles/formula etc.

When I was little and had a tantrum I would get The Look or "wait til your father gets home" and I knew that it was time to stop...

But this doesn't work for babies.....parents deserve every bit of sympathy they can get as it is enormously hard work keeping kids entertained with limited resources for long stretches of time, especially when parents are extremely tired themselves. Most are very concious of the annoyance their kids screaming causes....but at the end of the day you can't gag your children :roll And whilst some kids can be reasoned with, or respond to a look....many other strong-willed children will not (mine included).

[DanFromCali]

Hi from the Isle of Arran

Also any advice on baby's and longhall flights as well as the above would be most helpfull.

Nick

Fly Air New Zealand, book a bulkhead seat with a bassinet, fly late at night, let baby sleep in the bassinet, and enjoy the flight. I have travelled with my wife and small kids quite a bit from LA -> Auck and found Air New Zealand to be very accommodating to me and my family.

Last time out, we grabbed the front most bulkhead available which is pushed forward a tad on a 747 and is as private as the last rows of business class with curtains on both sides. My infant son, 5 mo at the time, slept like a baby (pun very much intended) - the entire way. My 2 Y.O. daughter watched cartoon movies on demand for a couple hours and slept the rest of the time.

Every time we have flown, the flight crew has doted on us and done everything possible to make us comfortable as a family travelling with little ones.

best of luck!

[batgirl1001]

We have a 21 month old baby right now and I can't imagine what I'd be like when we fly out to NZ in 7 months time. She is so active, I don't think she will keep still and behave in front of strangers for a long 10 hour flight. I'm thinking of bringing a DVD player for all her favourite shows- Barney, Thomas The Train etc to keep her occupied during the flight. Lots of activity books for colouring and games also.

What ideas do people have for occupying an active toddler on a long flight. I don't want my kid to be a nuisance and people giving us dagger looks.

One of my friends recommend dosing her with a sleeping drug that will knock her out during the entire flight. She did it to her 11 month old baby when they went on a holiday to Canada--> 22 hour flight and the baby sleep for like 3/4 of the journey.

Can't remember the name of the drug....but I am not that keen to get it as it seems a bit extreme to drug a kid.

[mackstann]

Yes I remember hearing about giving them an antihistamine which will make them drowsy. I don't really see why it elicits such a negative reaction from a lot of people. Hasn't everyone taken cold/allergy pills which make them tired? Was it inhumane? Nowhere near it. It's probably best for the child's stress level, not to mention everyone else's. Frankly I find flying miserable enough that I like to drug myself at a bar/restaurant at the airport. :)

edit: the same pills can also make some children extremely hyper so test beforehand!

[Hagabel]

The drug is benadryl (diphenahydramine) and it is commonly used as an antihistamine for allergic reactions. I have used it on my kids occassionally to help them sleep and I will be using it on a long flight for eveybodies sanity on both of my kids, 1 and 3.
Most of my colleagues(as well as myself) work in the medical profession and most of us have used this at some point or another. As a pp stated though can have opposite effect so try it out at home first!!
Tired, excuse any spelling errors!
:exit

[batgirl1001]

Thanks very much. Will take note of the name and perhaps consider it. I'm sort of against but OH is more into it as he wants a fuss-free flight.

If we test it at home...is there any different between the dosages, considering the different air pressures inside the plane and on ground level. Just thinking out loud....

[Alex40]

Right, congratulations on pregnancy, ohh I am broody! I want another one *threw tantrum on the floor*



Me too! :clap

But me thinks it will not happen now..