[KD17]

Just picking up bits & pieces from various posts it seems that NZ is no cheaper than the UK for everyday things like groceries, and general living, yet the salaries are considerably lower than the UK.

If that's the case how do people manage financially?

At a rough guess it would be similar to us living on just one of our salaries here, which would be quite a struggle.

We will have a little money from the sale of a property to start us off with a house and will both be working, earning what I would call average salaries. We do not live an extravagent lifestyle but I am beginning to feel that it may be more of a financial hardship living there than here.

I know you have to weigh up the "quality" of life you will get, and does it really matter if you eat chicken instead of steak (for example) but I don't want to feel that we would end up struggling, as that's not what we are going for...

I don't want a big house, flash car or anything like that, I've had it up to my ears dealing with all the pretentious people that live on this island and want to be far removed from it.

So what I'm really asking, I suppose, is the ultimate question, is it really worth all the hardship & struggle ?? :uhoh :?


Keith & Debby

[JohnM]

Hi Keith and Debbie,
I am feeling exactly like you are, as I've been reading posts on here for a couple of months and am starting to get discouraged. I have a pretty sweet deal where I am with a half-time job that pays the health benefits, and a real estate/entreprenuer career on the side. But I hate the weather in Michigan and my sister lives in Tasmania, AUS so it would be nice to be closer to her. Ultimately, I'd love to have my own business in NZ fixing up those cold houses I've been hearing about!, but just not sure I can do it. I would be really interested in others responses too. Cheer us up!

John

[Carol]

Yes it IS harder finanially here.

There is absolutely no doubt about it.


But if you read Leslie's topic "I could just scream" - I think it is clear that there is a bit more to it than coming here to be "comfortable" or even for "quality of life".

After we had been here for about a year - got over the worst of the homesickness and had some friends out to remind us of why we came - we started to look properly at our principles, practices and beliefs.
It was clear our beliefs were the same.
But our practises were very very different. Our priorities had changed.
We had become incredibly focused on our children and our health. Our needs not our wants. Yes it was different and took some getting used to.
But......... I am so glad we did it.
This is not the "land of milk and honey".
Nor is it utopia.
And DONT for goodness sake come for the weather!!!!
There are problems here too - and when you see them you sometimes get a little despondant about what you left and why you came.

But underlying all of that is a common pride in kiwis that is very different to what we were used to.
It is a belief in themselves that we are certainly aspiring to also.
Yes it is difficult at times - but then you only get out of life what you put into it don't you?

Carol

[veronica]

Its difficult to compare prices when people are coming from various places round the globe. Compared to the UK food isn't as cheap as we were expecting generally, but meat is much cheaper. For us car insurance and petrol are cheaper too, houses and land are as well. But I have a feeling that the US wouldn't compare too well on those things.

[lindajax]

Hi All,
Just to add something positive.
Like anywhere else your standard of living depends on a number of things and compromises you may be willling to make.

We are lucky we landed good jobs with reasonable pay and at the moment ( we haven't bouhgt a house so only pay rent) we are okay.

Pay is much less - as a nurse I earned the same here for full time as I did for 2 nights per week in the UK -- BUT the work environment is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better.

We sort of made a pact before coming that we believed we wouldn't be as well off as in the Uk- and we would adapt tot that as best we could.
BUT ( lots of buts) if you have a job that is reasonably paid you'll be fine.

The last post really did bring to the front what happens - we have been here just 8 weeks and we have become more focused on Lucy and our health etc and making the most of our free time - THAT is one of the main things that attracted us to NZ.

Like Carol so eloquently put it - it is not paradise etc it is like other places with low paid jobs, crappy weather, poverty, etc etc BUT how it makes you feel about life is priceless.

Don't be dispondent it is very easy to pick up on ONE thing that you as a person know you won't like and make it a focus but there is a bigger picture - not all rosey and lovely but a bigger picture non-the-less.

I hope this sort of explains what I want to say!
Linda xxx

Don't let the lower pay put you off-- you CAN shop on a budget, there are lots of free events each weekend .

I know there have been some negative posts and quite rightly so - it is important to get an overall view of what to expect . But make decisions based on your earning that you KNOW you'll get.
We did and were more than prepared to struggle for a long time.

[sarahw]

Linda I agree,

Some things are expensive out here & the NZ$ is different to the UK £ so you can't really compare things because the cost of living is more related to the salaries.

I'm certainly not denying that there are negatives and even if we were both earning then I don't think we'd quite have the same life as we had at home, however, I'd like to add some positives:

Eating out is generally much cheaper we find and takeaways are silly prices. for $30 you can get 3 Large pizzas, garlic bread, 1.5 litre pepsi and chips!!! That's about 1/3 of the price of the UK! Fish & Chips $4!!!

At the cinema you don't get ripped off when you buy popcorn & drinks like you do in the UK.

Our food bill used to be £100 a week at home excluding wine or beer & here it is $160 including wine & beer!!! I am buying the same foods as I bought at home (I cook everything from scratch so just buy fruit, veg, meat and fish & a few things like bread and rice) Pre-packaged food & tins are probably what bumps people's shopping up but comparing to the same foods I was buying at home we're not doing bad! Yes I shop at Pak & Save & we used to shop at Sainsburys at home but the food there is just as good (& the veg is better!)

Cars - my car was £5,000 cheaper than the same car if I'd purchased it new in the UK (and I only bought a Ford Fiesta!!!!) Ian got a Japanese import & it was cheap too! The road tax, the petrol, the insurance were all really good prices! (especially when we couldn't take any of our UK no-claims with us - that works out REALLY good!)

Wine and beer is cheaper - especially if you buy what's on offer - which usually works out about $9-$12 a bottle of wine but you can buy them much cheaper - the Aussie wines are way cheap! $15- for a 12 pack of beers (bottles or cans!) I'd say that's pretty good!

So don't get too down or put off when people say its expensive.

It is expensive to up your life & re-locate it to the other side of the world & savings do really help so anyone thinking about it should try & save as much as they can. You will probably have to sell some old stuff at silly prices (or give it away/dump it if you don't have enough time) & buy new stuff at high prices and there's no pretending that doesn't affect the cost of living for a while. (We can't afford some things we need yet like a fax machine, another telephone but its not all absolutely necessary stuff - we can live without!) It is tight whilst you're setting things up but...anyone who bought a house in the UK & has owned it for a few years should have a good amount of equity to set them up nicely.

I don't work over here at the moment (well not for money anyway - I do volunteer work) & I could never have done that in the UK (and we live in a nice house here so its not like we've had to compromise too much) no I can't shop in designer shops, no we don't both have new BMW's anymore, no we don't eat out very often, no we can't afford to have the latest & greatest gadgets. Yes I do shop in the Warehouse and Pak&Save & No1 shoe warehouse but who cares??? There's no keeping up with the Joneses here. I'm quite happy about it - our lives have changed, but we have gained so much in terms of lifestyle!

You can't live the UK life out here - but then isn't that why we're all leaving?

[Babette & Andy]

Thank you so much all of you who are already in NZ, for giving us your honest opinions and sharing your findings. :nice1 There are quite a number of us at the ITA submission or recent PR stage, so think a lot of us are wondering exactly what Keith & Debbie are asking in this posting.

This kind of thread helps us to be realistic in our expectations, but by no means puts us of our dreams. Hope I'm not generalising too much here :oops:

Thanks again guys
Babette

[Carol]

I can remember arriving in Auckland when we first came to live here.
We had never set foot in New Zealand before and all we knew of it was what we had read in books etc and what Kenny's brother had told us.
(no internet forums in THOSE days......all 9 years ago..... :laugh)
Anyway.......


I think - looking back now we must have been mad to do it with so little knowledge. dont get me wrong - I am so glad we did - but honestly - WHAT were we thinking!

Anyway (again)......

As we arrived - after a long flight from LA with two little (active) boys - I was feeling a little less than secure........no surprises there then!

One of the stewards on the ANZ flight must have realised how I was feeling........ He took me to one side and said
"My parents did exactly what you are doing when my brother and I were the same age as your sons. I thank them every opportunity I get for doing that for us"


I have never forgot those words - we are here for the very best of reasons. Our MOST valuable investment....our kids.

[feathers]

Thanks for all the helpful and honest replies on this topic.
I've been worrying about the financial side since I decided to make the move and although I know I can cut down on shoe shopping and wine drinking, what I am really concerned about is being able to finance a trip back home. When I decided to go for NZ I promised myself and my family that I would visit once a year, is this honestly a realistic prospect?? I'm beginning to think not!! In my line of work I think I could expect to earn between 40k-45k and I'm doubting this would be enough to live on and finance a trip back to the UK every year. :(
Thanks
Feathers

[xanctus]

Carol,
a very good insight indeed, make us have a better feeling of moving somehow.
We are in the same boat like yours planning to move to NZ without even visiting at all. All we know about living in a new places are just the ability to adapt, adjust, and make the best out of it. It's scary I must say, but we have to believe in ourselves eh? that there's always hope.
Lots of our family members are a bit worried with our ideas of moving without visiting the place first. I told them that as much as I want it to move to NZ so bad, yes I admit that I am scared too, therefore we need your mental support. :mrgreen:
However, we did have an experience living in other country for 9 years as well, so hope that would help us to adjust and getting an approval of PR :P :mrgreen:

[Carol]

Hi Xanctus
At the time we came - my parents had neverr owned a passport because they had never even thought about a holiday abroad never mind living abroad.


No wonder they gave me such a hard time and thought I'd gone mad.
It was a very VERY difficult time for me..........Hope things aren't as bad for you.



Feathers.........hmm......I doubt a yearly trip will be a happening thing if I'm honest.
Unless it is just you.

We have just had our first family trip back in 5 years - too long but not through choice.
With 3 kids - 2 of them over 12 it cost us an arm and a leg.

I think it will be our last altogether because of the cost - you never know though.

[Bubbles]

Sarah & Carol

It's nice to put things into persective

Thankyou :nice1

[dave k]

First off...I really would urge anyone who's thinking of moving here to come & visit first.
Seems kind of obvious to me, but it would appear that plenty of folk are willing to take the plunge & move anyway...there is a limit to how much you can prepare yourself for NZ life by reading about it or by asking questions here...even though everyone is extremely helpful & offer excellent advice.
I moved here about 6 months ago from the UK with my girlfriend.
We had no job offers, very little money, no work permits....just heaps of positivity about our new adventure.
We settled down in Wellington...Hataitai, which is just perfect. 5 min bus ride into the city which costs $1, or an amazing walk over Mt. Vic bushland and in the city in 20mins.... We're renting at the mo, a very nice place shared with a couple of Kiwis, for $180 per week - main bills included - which I think is amazingly cheap compared to rents in York, UK (where we previously lived)
My partner got a full-time Interior Design job after about a month of being here & I now have a de-facto permit to do whatever I want. I'm a musician...but have to do all sorts of odd job work too, since musos don't make much here.
In my opinion, it is cheaper here than the UK....but it all depends a) what you want out of life & b) where you are in NZ. Welly is about as dear as it gets for general living...although house prices & rent are a fraction down on Auckland, but we manage fine. There's also heaps to do for free here....just about every weekend over the Summer there's been stuff happening....tons of live music, festivals & so on, all free!!!
And the weather...I honestly don't know what people complain about . In the 6 months we've been here we've probly had the equivalent sunshine hours of about 5 English Summers! Yeah it's windy at times....big deal.
I'd take that any day over slate-grey, tupperware skies all year round.

Anyway, NZ will be what you make it. If you choose to come live here, I'd say check it out first though....

Hope some of that helps.

[jocalla]

We didn't come over with much money, and we are on low wages but I would say it is really worth it, thats why we are doing everything to make it here :nice1
I love our life here so much, and by being in this financial position we have found loads more to do for free as a family, which has been a real positive for us. We see it more as a challange now and are constantly budgeting, I can't believe how much money I used to waste in the UK and I NEVER saw myself as materialistic ;)
My latest attempt was to try baking cakes for the kids and it was a success.........ok I'll come clean..................they were out of a box and I just needed to add eggs and milk, but hey you gotta start somewhere :P :P :P .

Joanne :cheers

[KD17]

I'm glad it's not just us thinking these thoughts then. I didn't mean to be negative, just trying to get a clear, realistic picture of what to expect. I think the worst we could do would be to come there thinking it would be the "land of milk & honey" maybe that's where some get disappointed. There are lots of wonderful postive posts here which, if you read only these, you could easily think that.

Both Keith & I have lived in other countries before from USA to Norway so we don't think we would have any trouble adapting to another country's way of life.

What personally attracts me is what SarahW said: -

There's no keeping up with the Joneses here.

I think the UK's class sytem is disgusting, to "judge" someone by the size of their house and other material factors could, in my opinion, almost be classed as inhumane.... !!!

It seems like real friends can be made in NZ and the warmth of the people outshines what size house you live in, or what job you do.

I think adapting to the cost of living seems to be a small price to pay. :nice1

:P :yes


Keith & Debby

[NW2NZ]

A Big Thanks to everyone who's posted :clap After the initial euphoria of making the decision to embark on this journey, I've found myself doubting my sanity recently, purely based on the so-called negative posts. I'm very sorry for those whom NZ hasn't lived up to their hopes and expectations :( . After coming from an extremely humble background, we've managed to build ourselves a very good lifestyle here in the UK but, by that comment, I suppose I mean that we have the expected material objects we're programmed to aim for. Whilst we're certainly not unhappy, there's a feeling that there should be more to life than this. Maybe its an age thing or maybe its a need to have an adventure before we're too old and regret not trying? Whatever it is, we're definately gonna give it a good go and I very much appreciate those of you over there taking the time to give us your take on things. :nice1

[JohnM]

I appreciate everything said too, it really helps to hear all of your different opinions and facts, this is a great site full of very caring open people and it helps me to get things in perspective as well. I will be coming alone (if I decide to take the plunge), I'm 43, single, no kids, so I won't need a big salary, hell I'd live in a hut for the lifestyle change! Haha, yes you can say "mid life crisis" :roll:

John

[Hannah-NL]

Well then we're a family in their midlife crisis! :laugh

Totally agree on the above, I don't believe NZ is Paradise, but I'm convinced compared to what we have now the quality of life will be better and a better future for our kids.
Recent studies show more and more kids over here that complete school cannot get a job, teachers cannot find a job, over 40's cannot find a job, and so on.

[Babette & Andy]

Oh Carol, what that steward said to you some 9 years ago:

One of the stewards on the ANZ flight must have realised how I was feeling........ He took me to one side and said
"My parents did exactly what you are doing when my brother and I were the same age as your sons. I thank them every opportunity I get for doing that for us"

Sums it all up for me. :nice1 Yes we're doing it for us too, but the main thing must be the investment in our children's future.

Thanks again all for your postings.
Babette

[annaerb]

One of the stewards on the ANZ flight must have realised how I was feeling........ He took me to one side and said
"My parents did exactly what you are doing when my brother and I were the same age as your sons. I thank them every opportunity I get for doing that for us"

I came to NZ when I was 3 with my parents,grandparents, Aunties and Uncles (quite a crowd of us) some 30+ years ago from Scotland.
When I ring Family (Dad's side) they always say to me that it was the best thing my Dad ever did was to take me away for a new life.

I always say that, You only get one chance in life, make the most of it, set yourself goals because you never know what's around the corner.

[leslie]

when learning a language any decent instructor will explain that to master a language you must start from scratch and not translate... you have to immerse yourself in that particular thing and not draw on what you already know. its a much less exhausting way to accomplish your objectives and i find it applies to most things. when you move to a new place its much easier to take it and live at face value.

i grew up in the 'big house on the hill' so it was a revelation that the simple life in nz was so much more satisfying than anything else i'd experienced.

[anita]

Jocalla :laugh :laugh :laugh
I had to laugh when i read your post on baking cakes.
The kiwis all seem to bake because it is alot cheaper than buying cakes.
Soooooo i have bought a cook book and have also started to make muffins .
my friends back in blighty laughed when i told them this because i wasn't one for baking.
Anyway, you do adapt to life here and it is probably alot more healthy making your own,at least you know whats in them!!!

[wilson182]

One of the girls at work is a fantastic cook, and on her birthday she brought in the most luscious chocolate cake I have ever seen. Chocolate sponge with lasings of chocolate and BIG strawberries on the top. It was so delicious it melted in your mouth. :nice1 We were all green with envy until she confessed her secret............

She bought the sponge from Pak N Save and added the chocolate and strawberries herself :mrgreen:

[Carol]

you see...I wouldnt have done that......



I would have just taken the credit!
:laugh :laugh :laugh :nice1 :nice1 :nice1

[Gran]

Kiwis are naturaly good cooks, they learned from their mothers, my DIL is a much better cook than I am,

[Beach Kiwi]

No one can be a true New Zealand cook until they buy a copy of the Edmonds Cookery Book (http://www.nzbooks.com/nzbooks/product.asp?sku=Edmonds0473053802)! :nice1

This book has been the cooking 'bible' for generations of New Zealand housewives. (sorry about the non-PCness of that statement, but it's the truth! :mrgreen: )

[Carol]

I was given one by a kiwi.......in a last ditch attempt to "turn me" I think...



I STILL USE DELIA THOUGH!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[Moorf]

Gimme Nigella and Gordon Ramsay any day! :nice1 But will have to check out that NZ cookbook :P

Some great cookery mags here too... Cuisine is my fav - has a website http://www.cuisine.co.nz/

[Diny]

:eek Kiwis are naturaly good cooks, they learned from their mothers :eek :no :no :no

Oh Gran, remind me to take you to my MILs for tea one dayhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/obscene/eck15.gif

BK .... I've had a copy of the Edmonds Cook Book for about 15 years (there's been several new editions published I think since then). It's abit of a Kiwi institution isn't it .......... Edmonds .. Sure To Rise.

The 3 minute sponge is quite good I must admit. Some of the recipes remind me of those war time Land Army make do and mend books my nanna use to have.

Diny

[Tanya]

BK .... I've had a copy of the Edmonds Cook Book for about 15 years (there's been several new editions published I think since then). It's abit of a Kiwi institution isn't it .......... Edmonds .. Sure To Rise.

My copy is the 22nd Print edition - 1986 :oops: which I bought in May 1986 (sad aren't I!) but their chocolate chip biscuits (called Sante biscuits in the book) are really nice and easy to make - feel a bake coming on with the kids over the weekend :yes

Keep thinking I should buy myself a more up to date version - maybe now I am back in NZ and can get the ingredients I might splash out! :laugh

Tanya

[Tanya]

No one can be a true New Zealand cook until they buy a copy of the Edmonds Cookery Book (http://www.nzbooks.com/nzbooks/product.asp?sku=Edmonds0473053802)! :nice1

This book has been the cooking 'bible' for generations of New Zealand housewives. (sorry about the non-PCness of that statement, but it's the truth! :mrgreen: )
We go past the Edmonds garden on the way to see you Moorf! Have you noticed it??

Tanya

[Moorf]

:oops: No! Where is it?

[Tanya]

:oops: No! Where is it?

http://www.ccc.govt.nz/parks/GardenCity/parks_edmonds.asp

Its on Ferry Road - 7934 sq.metres - coming from town to Sumner on Ferry Road it is on the left.

Tanya

[Moorf]

Cool... on the list! :nice1

[anita]

:laugh :laugh :laugh
It's like the womens institute here.
well I to have a copy of edmonds but have yet to try it out on the kids :hopeso :hopeso
The other big life change for me is
getting used to having real logburner fires and chopping your wood which you store in your woodshed[ which I haven't dared to try yet]. But winter is approaching and it is getting pretty nippy in the mornings and the kids are starting to moannnnnnnnnn. :? :? :?
I will look on it as a challenge to get my 1st fire going :clap :clap :clap

[Moorf]

Chopping the wood :eek can't I use it at the size it is delivered.. pleeeeeze :?

[Annierobrigado]

I'm 43, single, no kids, so I won't need a big salary, hell I'd live in a hut for the lifestyle change! Haha, yes you can say "mid life crisis" :roll:

John

hi john

no, not midlife crisis, at least not yet. my sister's single too, she's 39...

:angel
annie

[Beach Kiwi]

It's abit of a Kiwi institution isn't it .......... Edmonds .. Sure To Rise.

Sure is, although it lost ground to the 'new age' of cooking that swept through New Zealand during the '90's. It has now regained some of that ground as it gets rediscovered by new generations of cooks. :nice1

Some of the recipes remind me of those war time Land Army make do and mend books my nanna use to have.

That's the best part of the book! It's not meant to be a clone of all those 'fashionable' books, with food that's more artistic than it is edible. It's simply a collection of tried and true recipes that work, are easy to make, and appeal to almost anyone. :cool

[Beach Kiwi]

Chopping the wood :eek can't I use it at the size it is delivered.. pleeeeeze :?

Most firewood is already cut to size. You can even buy extremely uniformly cut kindling that comes in its own box! Buy some of those firestarter cubes too. :cool

[Diny]

We have a woodburner here in the UK.

We get the logs from dad's farm .... they come in all shapes and sizes which I don't mind. There's something rather theraputic about weilding an axe !!!!! :laugh

Diny

p.s. Whoever invented firelighter should get the Nobel prize for excellence .............. rolled up newspaper and kindling ..... can't be ar**d.

[Moorf]

And do we need to keep wood in a dry place or can we stack up outside? Sorry to hijack thread :?

[Diny]

Here's a typical recipe from the Edmonds cook book ..... no fancy ingredients here:


Quick Chicken

2 - 3 Tegal chicken portions per person
1 cup strained tea
1 - 2 teaspoons honey
1 - 2 teaspoon soya sauce

Mix tea, soya sauce & honey. Cook chicken gently, turning frequently. Add more tea if liquid reduces too much. This is very rich and best eaten with baked potatoes and coleslaw.


Bit that amuses me ..... '2 - 3 portions per person' !!!!!!!! Either very hungry people or abit greedy.

Diny

[Beach Kiwi]

And do we need to keep wood in a dry place or can we stack up outside? Sorry to hijack thread :?

Most people keep it outside, in their garage, or under the house, but you still have to cover it if it's outside. Just a lean-to type of shelter is usually enough.

[Nicola]

Love this thread, and thanks for the pointers to the cookerybook.

I think we will fit in just fine when we get to NZ.

I love baking (just not that brilliant at it scones come out as rock cakes and my yorkshire puddings get called yorkshire biscuits :laugh ).

I would be lost without my little BeRo book, will have to remember to pack it. And my copy of Good Houskeeping Cookery book from 1979. I got it as a wedding pressie first time I was married (yes I was married very very young idiot that I was :angel ). It has no back and front cover and no index anymore. But it has every recipe you could need ever and details about all meats, veggies, fruit and sauces. I leave the Jamie and Delia stuff to Peter.

Just off to Amazon now to see if I can get a copy of Edmonds to get into practice.

[Beach Kiwi]

Just off to Amazon now to see if I can get a copy of Edmonds to get into practice.

I doubt they will have it.

You can order it through the company I linked to in my earlier post, as they ship worldwide. :cool

[Nicola]

Yes you are right Beech I can not find it at Amazon. But the NZ book site looks good too. Some interesting childrens books ......

"Why do dogs sniff bottoms" :eek :laugh

sounds right up my kids street :uhoh .

Thanks again for the cool link :nice1

Off to order half a ton of books now, shame Mothers day has passed. Now what excuse can I use for treating myself.

[Diny]

Why do dogs sniff bottoms"

My kids have got that book !!! It's a cracker. Very much along the lines of that poem called ...."The Dogs They Held A Meeting".

I can recite that from start to finish but always get a telling off from PB for soing so :uhoh

Diny

[Jennie & Rob]

Thank you so much everyone for all their views and for the originator posing the question - is life any better?
Our main motivation is to make a better life for the children and it seems that you are all unanimous that it is.
We are 9 weeks away from going to this country that we have never seen and the doubts creep in constantly. I agree that a holiday would have been good but the reason why we haven't is because you can think anywhere is good if you only spend a month there. We have agreed to spend at least two years in NZ before we decide if it is for us - hence getting the PRs. Going for a holiday would have used up a valuable £7000 or more which we can put towards our move instead.
It is so valuable reading your views - I spend so much time reading all this, I really must start planning for the move!
Also on the baking theme, I shall start practising.....

[Diny]

Jennie & Rob

There's dozens of people on this site who are moving to NZ having never been there before. You'll be right.

I believe you are heading off with the right attitude, giving yourself 2 years to make up your minds. Who knows what lies ahead of us all. I've been to NZ umpteen times but I'm still 'whacking myself' as much as you.

Good luck ..... there's alot to do in 9 weeks so get away from the PC !!!!!! :laugh :laugh :laugh

Diny

[leslie]

we did all research imagineable and spent £10 000+ only to decide against moving to oz. where is the right way?

[veronica]

there's no right or wrong way. just need an open mind whichever way you chose.