victoria24
26th September 2008, 09:26 PM
with the whole ID card debate trundling along in the UK, i wondered if NZ has any such thing?
ID cards
CJ22
26th September 2008, 11:03 PM
They'd better not do, that's one of my prime motivations for moving!
NikT
26th September 2008, 11:12 PM
They'd better not do, that's one of my prime motivations for moving!
That was on my list of reasons for moving too!:exit
Nick.:cheers
That was on my list of reasons for moving too!:exit
Nick.:cheers
Susan2502
26th September 2008, 11:42 PM
Whats the ID debate?
Sorry from SA so just wondering
Sorry from SA so just wondering
JandM
27th September 2008, 12:29 AM
Whats the ID debate?
Sorry from SA so just wonderingPeople in the UK have not had to carry ID cards since shortly after the end of World War II - they were introduced as a security measure then, and their use discontinued when it was over. Now, the government are pushing for their reintroduction, against a lot of opposition from the population.
Sorry from SA so just wonderingPeople in the UK have not had to carry ID cards since shortly after the end of World War II - they were introduced as a security measure then, and their use discontinued when it was over. Now, the government are pushing for their reintroduction, against a lot of opposition from the population.
timeanzbound
27th September 2008, 03:32 AM
People in the UK have not had to carry ID cards since shortly after the end of World War II - they were introduced as a security measure then, and their use discontinued when it was over. Now, the government are pushing for their reintroduction, against a lot of opposition from the population.
Funny...so is the US! That is a main reason for us as well to get the hell out!:exit
Funny...so is the US! That is a main reason for us as well to get the hell out!:exit
CJ22
27th September 2008, 04:47 AM
It's not the ID cards themselves so much (though that's bad enough - "Papieren bitte!"), but the underlying database I object to. The cards used in the second world war were literally just cards with your photo and details on (and we were at war!). The modern cards are merely the front end to a massive and intrusive database schema.
Any justification so far offered up by the government that seems determined to push them through has proved to be flimsy and flawed. There IS no sensible rationale for them. They just want them because they're increasingly Stalinesque in their approach to the chimera of national security, and beclause lots of their chums in the city stand to make plenty of money off the gravy-train. And they're budgetted to cost billions.
There's been a slew of controversial data-losses recently that don't exactly inspire confidence in the government's ability to keep the data secure. Basically I'm just not prepared to hand a bunch of hapless civil servants access to that kind of power, against my will, at my expense, to do things not in my interest. They can whistle for it.
Any justification so far offered up by the government that seems determined to push them through has proved to be flimsy and flawed. There IS no sensible rationale for them. They just want them because they're increasingly Stalinesque in their approach to the chimera of national security, and beclause lots of their chums in the city stand to make plenty of money off the gravy-train. And they're budgetted to cost billions.
There's been a slew of controversial data-losses recently that don't exactly inspire confidence in the government's ability to keep the data secure. Basically I'm just not prepared to hand a bunch of hapless civil servants access to that kind of power, against my will, at my expense, to do things not in my interest. They can whistle for it.
JandM
27th September 2008, 05:20 AM
EXACTLY. The more 'they' try to know everything about me at the push of a button, the more I'm inclined to want to hide.
CJ22
27th September 2008, 08:00 AM
No doubt somebody will offer "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear", thus proving our amazing human ability to miss the point :)
ID cards fundemntally change the relationship between government and the citizens. Heretofore, government has served at the behest of the citizens. Post-ID cards, the citizen may exist at the behest of the government. How does it fall to a government in a modern western democracy to grant ITSELF that kind of power, against the wishes of the people?
ID cards fundemntally change the relationship between government and the citizens. Heretofore, government has served at the behest of the citizens. Post-ID cards, the citizen may exist at the behest of the government. How does it fall to a government in a modern western democracy to grant ITSELF that kind of power, against the wishes of the people?
victoria24
27th September 2008, 08:46 AM
well, im glad to hear that nz has not adopted the idea. i didnt comment on the 9/11 post as was apparent but I can say here that when governments rule by fear or the possibility that we should be fearful if we dont adopt an attitude then that is the beginning of the end.
constablechuck
27th September 2008, 03:45 PM
No doubt somebody will offer "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear", thus proving our amazing human ability to miss the point :)
ID cards fundemntally change the relationship between government and the citizens. Heretofore, government has served at the behest of the citizens. Post-ID cards, the citizen may exist at the behest of the government. How does it fall to a government in a modern western democracy to grant ITSELF that kind of power, against the wishes of the people?
This is already the case in the good o'l USA. While you don't need a particular ID card, you do need a "particular" ID number which is your SSN. Without it you can't work, get a bank account, a driver license or any kind of government funded assistance. For years now the government has been collecting details about children at birth and automatically issuing an SSN, so there's really no choice in the matter. The only exception are children born to U.S. citizens in other countries, after my son was born here in NZ I registered his details with the U.S. Consulate to get confirmation of his U.S. citizenship, during the process I was given a form to fill out for him to get a SSN, as that part was optional I filed that form in the rubbish. If he ever moves to the U.S. and needs a SSN then he can get one at that time, until then I see no reason for his details to be added to uncle sams database, I'd hate to see them trying to draft him in 18 years for whatever war they happen to be involved in.
ID cards fundemntally change the relationship between government and the citizens. Heretofore, government has served at the behest of the citizens. Post-ID cards, the citizen may exist at the behest of the government. How does it fall to a government in a modern western democracy to grant ITSELF that kind of power, against the wishes of the people?
This is already the case in the good o'l USA. While you don't need a particular ID card, you do need a "particular" ID number which is your SSN. Without it you can't work, get a bank account, a driver license or any kind of government funded assistance. For years now the government has been collecting details about children at birth and automatically issuing an SSN, so there's really no choice in the matter. The only exception are children born to U.S. citizens in other countries, after my son was born here in NZ I registered his details with the U.S. Consulate to get confirmation of his U.S. citizenship, during the process I was given a form to fill out for him to get a SSN, as that part was optional I filed that form in the rubbish. If he ever moves to the U.S. and needs a SSN then he can get one at that time, until then I see no reason for his details to be added to uncle sams database, I'd hate to see them trying to draft him in 18 years for whatever war they happen to be involved in.
M-Squared
27th September 2008, 04:09 PM
^^ That is a scary thought isn't it? :( :eek: I'm so pleased we're out of the US, as are my parents. They are extremely pleased that they don't have to step foot in that country again. Not to mention that they were treated like utter criminals and with complete contempt by the authorities when visiting for 10 days. :mad:
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