[westi]

Hi - we're in the process of getting quotes for new windows and wondered whether any one could recommend a company they have used ?
So far we have had Rylock round because they are local. Very helpful, just waiting for the quote to come through the door ( I'll make sure I'm sitting down ! )

[Gar1]

Try http://www.nkwindows.co.nz/ . They are more expensive, but you don’t have the issues with aluminium frames.

[Derv]

I was going to suggest NK Windows as well. They are proper uPVC windows with the option of argon-filled and/or low e glass. You won't have any of the problems associated with aluminium windows, their energy efficiency is much higher and they look so much better too. And they're in Chch so you can go to their showroom and see the product (which will probably remind you of windows in the UK). The frames come in several colours and there are lots of styles of windows, patio doors and front doors. (No I don't work for them!!).

[westi]

Hi - Thanks so much for that, I'll contact them.
What are the problems associated with aluminium ?

[Derv]

There's often no proper thermal break in the frame with aluminium windows which means that the frame will transmit the cold from outside and so will be cold and damp, even when the glass itself is okay. You also need to look at how the glass is fixed into the frames, and the type of glass used. In addition, uPVC frames last a lot longer and stay in better condition than aluminium ones (ignore what some people tell you about uPVC not being suitable for NZ's strong sunshine levels, it's not true).

IMHO, aluminium frames look as they belong in a greenhouse and that's not where I want to live :D. But. whatever you decide to do, study the info in detail and don't necessarily go for the cheapest option. In some cases, if you pay more, you get a more energy efficient product and so you get payback in terms of lower fuel bills more quickly (to say nothing of improved comfort and happiness levels at home!!)

[westi]

Ahaa - noted - thanks

[Timbo]

I assume you are or have been involved in the window busines Derv. Would you be willing or able to expand on your comment about uPVC being stable in NZ conditions?
We are considering having euro style windows installed if and when we build and have been repeatedly told by many people in the industry here that as the U.V is so much stronger than Northern hemishere, the frames break down and discolour.
As it is now a requirement to have DG in new builds in a huge part of NZ, it would be good to have an informed opinion from someone who is not trying to sell us their product.

[benandclare]

We replaced our window panes, i.e retro fitted double glazed units into existing aluminium frames back in August so ahd the tail end of winter to see the benefits.

Yes on very cold mornings outside there was still condensation on the frames but we didn't feel it was a significant problem where as before there was major mopping up operations ;)

With this in mind we'll probably have aluminium frames in our new house as cant afford them and also UPVC have not been around long enough in NZ to see how they do react to the higher UV levels than in UK.

[Derv]

Actually, I'm not in the window business at all, though I did work on energy issues for many years in the UK. Really I'm just interested in getting our house as energy efficient as possible and we always intended to have uPVC windows here. When we asked about them when we started planning our build, we kept being told "What's that?", "Never heard of them", "We don't do it that like that here", "What do you want that for" or "that isn't suitable for NZ but only for England where it's cold and dark all the time". So we started to find out more for ourselves and we are convinced that uPVC will be perfectly fine in NZ conditions. uPVc is used in many countries around the world very successfully and and many of those countries have more extreme weather conditions than NZ.

I think some of the Kiwi attitude to uPVC is that they genuinely don't know what it is and think it's just plastic, and also it's the "not invented here" syndrome. Plus some of their energy efficiency standards are way behind the UK so they have no need for the sort of standards that are common in the UK. As many forumites have said, Kiwi houses are often cold and damp and we don't want ours to be like that!

Don't get me wrong, we love NZ and many of the features of our house will be totally Kiwi but we did not want to live with aluminium windows (nor with a wriggly tin roof, but that's another story!)

[richard]

Hi - Thanks so much for that, I'll contact them.
What are the problems associated with aluminium ?

We extended our house about a year and a half ago and had aluminium windows put in to the new bit and also some of the original bedrooms. It was the builders choice, not ours. We were thinking about getting quotes for upvc windows then found out he had already ordered some so went along with his choice so as not to hold things up.

Over the summer we had the rest of our windows replaced with aluminium ones to match. During the winter all of the frames had condensation on and during very cold nights water would pool at the bottom. The gap between the window ledge and the metal window frame has black mould and we had to wipe the condensation channel down frequently to stop mould collecting. The aluminium windows all seem to have drainage channels so they are obviously expecting to collect water.

The only regret I have with renovating our house was not going with upvc. We didn't have any of these issues with ours in the UK.

[Jo Jo]

As it is now a requirement to have DG in new builds in a huge part of NZ, it would be good to have an informed opinion from someone who is not trying to sell us their product.

In the UK, uPVC windows have a life expectancy of 25 years, whereas aluminium or wooden windows have a life expectancy of 40 years.

(Source: Chartered Institute of Building Engineers: Life Cycle of Window Materials, Asif et al (http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/Masif.pdf))

It is highly likely that the life expectancy of uPVC here in NZ will be less because UV and humidity does degrade the uPVC (source: as above), but trying to find quantified info specific to uPVC in NZ is very hard.

uPVC windows are also harder to repair than either wood or aluminium windows (source: as above).

Timbo knows this already, but I have to declare an interest: my husband owns an aluminium window manufacturers. He is looking into supplying uPVC windows, hence my research into them.

However, I have wooden windows in my house (and I would always prefer either wood or aluminium faced wooden windows).

[nellyt]

PVC windows here are 50% more than Al ones.
They certainly are not as cheap as they appear to be in the UK.

Ignoring the condensation side of things (which we haven't noticed as a problem in the 2 rentals we've been in in ChCh - both quite new builds), it seems to come down to the maths.
For our new build if we look at the 50% extra in cost and compare that to our current heating bills then it will take a very long time for them to pay for themselves. We starting off thinking we'd have them as a no-brainer, now looks like we will not.

But yes they look nicer, have better locks, don't get condensation...

NK stuff looks pretty good. Its imported from Europe, helpful staff. Know some colleagues who have it and are happy. Several people have told us that there are some cheaper Chinese imports now available in NZ that are jumping on the UPVC band wagon that are pretty shoddy.

[benandclare]

Spoke to the franchise owner of one of the countries leading building firms in Chch today on the subject of UPVC and he admitted that he'd only learnt of UPVC windows and doors today :eek:

[SharpBlade]

Hi,
We are also in the process of renovating our house and we have had a few quotes for the windows (lots of window in this double storey house). The uPVC (NK Windows)would be ideal but they costs 3 times more (30 000 $ !!) than retro fitting double glazing on the existing aluminium frames.
We are probably going to go with this guy, Charles Kelly at "Warm my home", Chch. phone number 03943 3320. He was professional but not pushy and his quote seemed honest. He also came to our house a few times to answer our questions and to have another look at the frames ans sashes etc..
Good luck, Laura

[westi]

Hi - thanks for the number

[Wol]

I couldn't help butting into this thread - I'm in Oz and have put in aluminium DG windows in my new house.

They are German design but Chinese manufacture, have thermal breaks and are tilt & turn.

The cost was over $50k and they have given nothing but trouble. The design didn't have effective drainage through the fixed frames, the doors leak water when it blows rain, the units had to be replaced - in one frame five times.

This is nothing against ally: just that particular imported and the Cinese element.

In the Uk we had two houses with UPVC T & T DG windows - Kommerling, which is among the best European manufacturers.

The first house had white UPVC - which was fine. The second had triple extrusion, integral aluminium interior, white inside and "mahogany" exterior - and the sun really destroyed the brown UPVC on the Southern side. It warped, it faded and it's surface began to crumble. In fifteen years some of the frames were effectively time-expired.

And be aware that sealed units don't have an indefinite life, which is what you're lead to believe. It's reckoned that you will get about 15 years from sunward-facing units: we were told we were lucky to have got 18 years when we had to replace a dozen or so before we sold the house.

So it's actually quite debateable whether DG actually saves money, or the environment: if you have to replace the units several times over the life of the house, and factor in the energy to make the glass, manufacture and install the windows they are probably worse than single glazing! They *are* more comfortable, though.

[nellyt]

They are German design but Chinese manufacture, have thermal breaks and are tilt & turn.

I get the impression/led to believe that despite there being a lot of window suppliers that there are only really two makes of Al extrusion that all the companies use.
So I guess if there is an issue with them here then someone should of found out by now.

[Wol]

I get the impression/led to believe that despite there being a lot of window suppliers that there are only really two makes of Al extrusion that all the companies use.
So I guess if there is an issue with them here then someone should of found out by now.

Extrusions are one thing - the quality of the actual window manufacture is quite another!

Frankly, I've had it up to here with the awful quality of so much of the stuff coming out of China. All too often there are vital and central components which break after a very short period - and my windows were certainly like that.

[nellyt]

Extrusions are one thing - the quality of the actual window manufacture is quite another!

Also get the impression that most companies down here use a single source of glass also : http://www.metroglasstech.co.nz/
Believe this is all made in ChCh.

[Gar1]

Also get the impression that most companies down here use a single source of glass also : http://www.metroglasstech.co.nz/
Believe this is all made in ChCh.

They may be the only glass maker ( I have no reason to argue), however don't believe that they are the only manufactures of sealed units.

http://www.wanz.org.nz/manufacturers.htm

[Wol]

Also get the impression that most companies down here use a single source of glass also : http://www.metroglasstech.co.nz/
Believe this is all made in ChCh.

Could be: we specified Pilkington glass but actually got Chinese stuff - most of which had to be changed (twice). The surface was so soft it scratched like hell when they cleaned it off, and the units were faulty with a haze inside.