[Kerry and David]

My 11 year old will have been at school for a total of 10 weeks when they break up for the Summer holidays. I have just received an invoice from the school giving my 5 days to pay for some books, materials etc and the school donation of $180.
I was under the impression that the school donation was an annual fee. So I have paid the $55.50 for the other bits and bobs and just queried the school donation.
Have had a response to say that we should pay the fee now regardless of when our son started and will then have to pay again in the new term.

I know it's not a huge amount but on top of school uniform, shoes,exercise books etc etc it does add up.

What do you think?

Cheers

Kerry

[dharder]

Is that the whole annual fee as school donation? I think our school only asked for a part of it dependent on when they start. They sent us something regarding the girls, who will be at the school one term exactly in this year, but it wasn't the full annual fee.

I'd say offer to pay pro rata'd if you want to, and then the full fee next year. It is voluntary after all.

Daniela

[Tanya]

My childrens "donations" are paid quarterly - at start of each term.

I wouldnt expect to pay for 3 terms they werent there!!

If I was you I would pay a quarter of it and tell them thats all you are paying. Think of it another way - you wouldnt pay a whole years back rent on a place you have just moved into!!

Tanya

[pinkpiggy]

Hi Kerry, when we first arrived the boys started school in Term 3. The school asked us to pay a pro rata donation fee for the boys. I think it's a bit unfair of the school to make you pay for the whole amount. What did they tell you when you first arrived?

[Kerry and David]

We were told that there was a donation paid each year. However when they said each year I thought if I paid now, it would be due again November 09. Not $180 each year as in 2008 and 2009.

I know it's not a massive amount and I feel uncomfortable now I have raised it with them but I just thought it was a bit unfair. Bet my card is marked now:exit

[JandM]

Could you ask some of the other parents of that school what they think about what you're being told?

[Kerry and David]

Could you ask some of the other parents of that school what they think about what you're being told?

I don't actually know any of the parents as my son walks to and from school by himself. However I will ask at the Playcentre as I'm sure some of the mums with kids even at the Primary schools may have an opinion.
Thanks

[Tia Maria]

My son started school roughly half way through he year, so I paid the equivalent of half a year's donation. I then paid for all the stationary that was shared amongst the class, (white markers, pencils etc), but only paid for some of the exercise books as I didn't think he'd use them all.

Many parents I know will also use exercise books from last year into the next year.

Is $180 definitely the whole year donation? I would have expected to pay for 1 term, I'm not sure how they can justify anything else.

Maybe a polite email saying you are unfamiliar with the NZ system and is the donation for a term or a whole year, and how much will it be next year?

We usually get asked to pay the donation in term 1, with a discount for prompt payment.

Cheers

Tia

[Kerry and David]

Just took this from the schools webiste:

School Fee / Donation
These donations are $150.00 per student for the year. The school fee is used to help pay for things not covered by the Operations Grant from the Ministry, such as the school medical centre, sports and cultural activities, the school diary, official uniforms, Watermark, Reports, or for other such purposes as the Board of Trustees may determine for the benefit of the students. The fee is tax deductible. As a thank you to those who support the school in this way we issue them with the annual School Yearbook, which is not available for purchase in any other way.

So i'm getting invoice for $180! Wonder if I get two Yearbooks, which of course won't feature my son as he has only been there 10 weeks:laugh:laugh

Tia
I did do the 'i'm new email' and they said, one fee whenever you join! BUT of course is is a donation . It is such a small amount when you convert it in to £ and I know it is low compared to some of the schools (you posh lot on the North Shore:laugh;) )

[mgbridges]

At our son's Catholic Primary school the fees are as broken down as follows and we pay these each term:

School Development Donation $35
Provides finance to allow for our school development programme (building works etc)

Attendance Dues $72 (incl. $8 GST) increased to $82.50 (incl. 9.17 GST) in 2008
Go directly to the Auckland Catholic Education Diocesan Fund. Used to service loans for capital works at Catholic schools throught the county.

Special Character Donation $10
Charged by the Catholic Education Office to fund expenses for advisers in Religious Education

Parent Contribution Donation $114 increased to $122.50 in 2008
Provides funds additional to the Government Grants for the running of the school

The Special Character Levy, School Development and Parent Contributions are on a voluntary basis (read 'we expect it to be paid and won't look kindly on you if you don't')

He joined the school about 3 wks before the end of Term 3 in 2007 and we weren't charged for it. We then paid the above figures from the start of Term 4 in 2007. I've now set up a direct debit as it was a shock to get hit with a bill for $250 at the beginning of each term on top of the stationery, new uniform, new shoes etc.

Not quite sure what to do in your situation, is there a kind soul in the office at the school you could talk to? Its sometimes easier to have these conversations face to face rather than trying to 'negotiate' via email.

Hope the above helps,
Anneliese

[JasonS]

ok, are we the only ones that have a hard time understanding the use of the term "donation" in all this. :uhoh they sent us an invoice reminding us that we had not paid our annual school donation. where we come from, a donation is considered a gift, not a requirement. so i wish they would just refer to it as the "annual school fee". just my gripe for the day....

laurel

[dharder]

so i wish they would just refer to it as the "annual school fee". just my gripe for the day....

Yes, I wish they would, too, but I don't think they can legally.

But I dislike the term 'donation' as a requirement. On some bouncy castle in the UK, it said £1 donation to use. I had four kids and £2, so I gave them that, and I was told I could only let two kids on the bouncy castle. I pointed out that it doesn't say 'fee', it says donation, but they were having none of it. Very annoying. Bit like the school sending you a reminder...

Daniela

[kerrijeansmith]

Yeah, I was just going to say that the "donation" word is a load of nonsense. It's a fee. And I don't think people should have to pay for a public education anyway. We'll see how it goes once we arrive. 4 kids in school doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.

[dharder]

We'll see how it goes once we arrive. 4 kids in school doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.

Luckily, they cap it at some point, I think there's 'three or more kids' as the highest fee (still about $600 for us) at our school.

Daniela

[andrewandjane]

Call me tight but i've not paid it out of principle.

No ones chased me for it but i think a fair few people over here on waiheke are willing to stand up for principles. Its a donation after all. I recall a labour minister when asked recently said she never pays it and advises any parents who are invoiced to forward the invoice onto the education ministry for payment.

i like that plan

[JandM]

Obviously the use of the word is wrong, and it's annoying for us from out of the country who aren't used to it.

But I sort of see how the NZ system itself has some justification to it. In the UK, everybody pays towards the public education system through national tax and council tax, whether or not they have children. That also happens in NZ, but the families with children actually benefiting from the service are expected to pay a bit more towards it. Any Kiwis around who can tell us if that's how it got the way it is?

[Tanya]

The current system of school funding was introduced in 1989, following the introduction of the government's "Tomorrow's Schools" policy. Tomorrow's Schools was designed to make each school accountable for their own budgets and spending decisions. Schools were bulk-funded with boards of trustees elected to run each school.

It was a stark contrast to the previous system, which gave schools only a very limited say in what money they spent. Schools are funded through an operations grant - which is used to implement the goals of the school's charter and cover the costs associated with day-to-day running. The operations grant does not include teachers' salaries, property or large capital items - the government separately funds these.

Guidelines, issued by the Ministry in a 1998 circular, specify what a school can and can't charge for in the area of voluntary donations. Schools can seek a donation and they can ask for subject costs, but only where students request a take-home component. Schools are prohibited from asking for money for anything that is deemed compulsory. They can't force parents to buy workbooks, and they can only charge parents if they receive their prior permission. The school's operations grant is meant to cover these sorts of items. Students are expected to supply their own stationery.

When is voluntary compulsory?
While some schools call the contributions from parents "donations", others, like Epsom Girls Grammar School, call them contributions. In a tax invoice/statement to parents this year for legitimate fees such as the NZQA exam fee, sports fees, and a biology field trip, Epsom Girls included a $425 parental contribution without stating it was voluntary (as they are required to do). There were also two other contributions: for the building fund and a trees and environment donation.

We think Epsom Girls breached the rules, but they are not alone. Wellington Colege seeks a $12 "compulsory" payment for a school diary and a student ID card. Because these are compulsory items that should be funded by a school's operations grant, that could also be breaking the rules.

Epsom Girls Grammar principal Annette Sharp says the decision not to specify the parental contribution as voluntary was an oversight and this has been rectified in a letter to parents this month. Epsom Girls asks parents for a minimum of $450 per student ($425 each if more than one sibling attends the school) which it says it needs to meet the basic running costs of the school.

A NZCER national survey in 2003 calculated that the average secondary school donation was $89. Not all parents pay, however. NZCER found payment rates from parents ranged from below 30 percent through to more than 90 percent. But not being able to afford a high donation level shouldn't deter parents from sending their children to a particular school.

Pressure points
Otumoetai College caused a stir earlier this year by threatening to take a parent to court for failing to pay subject costs that the school considered were over and above the curriculum. The two reached an amicable agreement, but principal Dave Randell says the resulting audit by Ministry of Education staff clarified a couple of points. For example, schools can only charge for extra items if parents have given explicit permission at the start of the year - that includes all costs, not just subject costs.

As a result, the school revised its subject costs and wrote to every parent seeking permission to charge subject fees for courses with a take-home component - a process that took "hours". But Randell remains adamant he can't do without the donation: "it enhances many things that I'm trying to do," he says.

The 2005 NZCER study found that while schools from upper deciles were more likely to ask for a donation, there was increasing reluctance from parents to pay it. Some parents argued that free education meant exactly that. Some schools spoke of the difficulties of explaining the concept of a donation to migrant communities - who had no trouble with the idea of paying a bill, but didn't give donations the same status.

We don't think school principals are scammers, just well-meaning public servants trying to do their jobs. As one principal told us, on condition of not being named, "some of the things we try to charge and get people to pay for are questionable ... but it's not because we want to break the law. We are desperately short of funds and we can't make ends meet and provide a quality education for our kids unless we scrape at every door."

He's not alone - according to a 2003 NZCER national survey 94 percent of secondary and 75 percent of primary principals think government funding is inadequate.

Isn't state education free?
Yes and no. The Education Act states that "every person who is not a foreign student is entitled to free enrolment and free education at any state school" between the ages of 5 and 19.

State education has never been "free". Schools have always sought parental contributions: either directly through "donations", or indirectly through school galas, cake stalls, and other fundraising. And they collect fees on behalf of the government for qualifications such as the old school certificate and now NCEA.

Donations are used to fund things like school productions, sports equipment and uniforms, school magazines, and some IT costs. They are voluntary contributions by parents and are quite separate from any compulsory fees.

Donations are the norm
Of the 119 schools that responded to our survey, we found only four (decile one schools) who indicated they wouldn't be asking parents for a donation.

A school's decile rating reflects the socio-economic status of its students. So schools with the highest proportion of students from low socio-economic backgrounds, relative to all schools, are classed as decile one. Schools with the lowest proportion of these students are classed as decile 10.

This system works more or less as you'd expect. Lower decile schools get more funding per student to cover the greater educational needs of students from these communities and are less likely to ask for donations. One reason for this is that boards and principals of these schools, and the parents themselves, know that it is not fair that a small group of parents actually pay. So these schools try to live within their operations grant rather than ask for donations. Higher decile schools ask for more funds from parents and their local community.

The picture becomes muddied in the middle, where there is considerable variation in the size of the donation asked for. Two decile 5 schools will have a similar proportion of "decile 1" students - but one of them may take the rest of their roll from relatively wealthy communities around it, while the other draws the remainder of its students from relatively poor (but not the poorest) communities. This may contribute to differences in the amount of locally raised funds each school needs to raise.

However, the highest decile schools don't necessarily ask for the highest donations. Wellington's Onslow College is a decile 10 school that seeks a $200 annual donation. That's less than the $280 a year at Nelson College (decile 7), or Auckland's Glendowie College (decile 9) which asks for $300.

The figures from our survey support the findings of a just-released New Zealand Council for Educational Research (NZCER) report, which found that higher decile schools were more likely to ask parents to donate. Mangere College was the only decile one state school to buck the trend, seeking a modest $40 donation.

Our survey also showed that the 96 schools who compared next year's donation with what they asked for five years ago reported an average increase of 3.9 percent per year - that's almost double the average increase in inflation over the same period

[JasonS]

thanks tanya for all info! :nice1
laurel

[Tia Maria]

Very interesting! Thanks Tanya!

Would rep you but I can't so you'll have to make do with a :nice1 :) :D

Cheers

Tia

[mgbridges]

Would rep you but I can't so you'll have to make do with a :nice1 :) :D

Tia

I've done the honours Tia!
Anneliese

[andrewp]

I've done the honours Tia!
Anneliese

Me too! Great info.

[Tanya]

Thanks Guys!!

Tanya

[peebles16]

Me three - brilliant info Tanya :nice1

Karenx

[willsken]

Call me tight but i've not paid it out of principle.

No ones chased me for it but i think a fair few people over here on waiheke are willing to stand up for principles. Its a donation after all. I recall a labour minister when asked recently said she never pays it and advises any parents who are invoiced to forward the invoice onto the education ministry for payment.

i like that plan

I'm more than happy to pay. I just think about all the things that couldn't be provided for the kids if all parents didn't pay. At the end of the day the school only gets a certain budget to work with and they can't magic the money from nowhere. I love the fact that our local school has such great equipment and facilities for the kids. If there weren’t the donations from the parents, then cuts would be made to cover it because the government wouldn’t just stump up more cash just like that. Who would lose out? The kids of course, mine included

[dharder]

I'm more than happy to pay.

I don't mind really, either.

I really only object to the use of the term 'donation' but then making it sound compulsory. It either is or it isn't.

Daniela

[IanW99]

I don't mind really, either.

I really only object to the use of the term 'donation' but then making it sound compulsory. It either is or it isn't.

Daniela

Unfortunately, I believe that because they want you to be able to claim a refund against tax, that they have to use the term donation.

Ian

[dharder]

Unfortunately, I believe that because they want you to be able to claim a refund against tax, that they have to use the term donation.

Oh, I didnt' know that. Well, they could have told me :)

But thanks, that'll make it easier to accept.

Daniela

[Tanya]

ISSUES RELATING TO ITEMS PROVIDED THROUGH THE SCHOOL DONATION

17. When parents do not pay the school donation can a board legally refuse to provide to the student any items which are directly funded by the school donation?

Not if it results in unfair discrimination against some students. And there may be serious financial implications in such a practice.

Some boards have a policy of funding certain items or activities entirely from the school donation, eg the school magazine, student identity cards, subsidised travel for sports teams etc. In cases where parents decline to pay the school donation, a board may wish to withhold from their children items such as those referred to above, which are funded entirely from the school donation. While boards have an undeniable right to do this, such an action may have serious implications because it implies that the school donation is not a voluntary donation at all but, at least in part, is a payment for goods and services. This may mean that all school parents would be unable to claim an income tax rebate on their "donation" and the board would have to pay GST on all the money it collected by way of school "donations". Furthermore, withholding an item can have other consequences eg if the student ID card is used as a swipe card to enable students to borrow library books, to withhold the card from students whose parents have not paid the school donation would have the effect of denying the student a privilege that is available to other students. (It is also worth remembering that the library building has been provided by Government and most of the books will have been purchased with operational funding.)

ISSUES RELATING TO NON-PAYMENT

18. Can a board legally use a debt collecting agency to collect money owed to the school by parents?

Yes, but not to collect an unpaid school donation.

Each board will decide for itself whether it is appropriate to employ a debt collection agency to collect money owed to the school by parents. However, no board should employ a debt collection agency in an attempt to force parents to pay the school donation. This is not a debt, but simply a voluntary donation which parents cannot be compelled to pay.

Tanya

[willsken]

Oh, I didnt' know that. Well, they could have told me :)

But thanks, that'll make it easier to accept.

Daniela
(not aimed at you even though I'm quoting you!!!:nice1)

I also know for a fact that some families that have kids in the school I work in don't get chased for the money and never pay. They can't afford to, the school knows this and quite rightly leaves them alone. I just think people who can afford to pay should do so, it improves things in school for all the kids.
I also, until recently, was able to charge a subject fee to all the kids opting to take my subject. I used the money to buy things that was of benefit to the kids. We are no longer able to charge this fee because technically we aren't allowed to and one of the parents complained. Fine, but my budget hasn't been upped to take this into account, so the kids won't have new resources next year. Ummmm.... who loses out? :no

[dharder]

(not aimed at you even though I'm quoting you!!!:nice1)

I actually agree with you, and it irks me that in a Decile 9 school like ours so many people aren't paying. In most cases (not all, I know that), it is not due to a lack of funds.

Daniela

[Tia Maria]

I don't mind paying or doing fundraisers either as I can clearly see where all the money is spent and I'm very happy with all the extras my children have access to as a result.

Cheers

Tia

[nippa&pippa]

Since this thread coming out about donations, I been wondering what happened to my son's.......till the letter arrived today :uhoh
I had to pay $12.50 per term plus $5 for paper charge per term. He had been there for 2 term and bit this year but they charge us just two term, so it is not too bad especially it is a decible 10 rural school.

I don't mind pay the donations.

Can anyone enlight me what is "paper charge"?????

[Familyofmonkeys]

We supposed to pay donation of about $40 per term, which isn't to bad and we don't mind paying, but all the other little stuff has really started to add up. Stationary was about $45 for each year, plus every time they need new workbooks it is more money and dd is wizzing through the spelling books at $12.50 a time :uhoh

It also really annoys me how they have started invoicing us for activity fees before we have even decided whether she will take part. Recently we got bill for $5 per week for terms tennis tuition, which we didn't even know they were doing during the school day as we didn't get the letter, but surely we should have to agree to pay before they actually take part and charge us? And got bill for school trip before we'd even had the actual trip details....which OH refused to let her go on anyway as they were using buses with no seatbelts and he couldn't take day off to go along himself.

[nippa&pippa]

.which OH refused to let her go on anyway as they were using buses with no seatbelts and he couldn't take day off to go along himself.

Uhmmm, I guess you will be taxi driver for next 20 years to schools, especially to Darfields high, when you move down to canterbury, unless the law change in next 20 years on seatbelt.....:exit

[Familyofmonkeys]

Uhmmm, I guess you will be taxi driver for next 20 years to schools

:yes:exit

It's mostly an issue for him because there are local companies available that have coaches with seatbelts...no 2's kindy use them for all their trips as their policy is to have seatbelts on trips ...........and the fact that there are too many nutters on the roads in Auckland. Buses he commutes to work in regularly have to slam brakes on because of some lunatic on road....imagine that with a bus full of unrestrained 5 years olds :uhoh

[nippa&pippa]

oh dear :o

[M-Squared]

I don't really mind paying the fee... it's cheap compared to how much we used to pay in local taxes (which included education) in the US. Daughter is thriving here, education system is far superior to the US. :nice1


Its a donation after all. I recall a labour minister when asked recently said she never pays it and advises any parents who are invoiced to forward the invoice onto the education ministry for payment.

i like that plan

It is rather good. :) :nice1 I do dislike the term "donation" and I was never informed it was tax-deductible grrrrr. I file every year (on principle, so I don't run the risk of getting caught out by a taxing surprise, plus I'm used to filing every year after the US) so will definitely make sure I include all my donations. :)

[IanW99]

For those that don't know how to claim your tax back for your school donations then start at Donations, childcare and housekeeper tax credits (http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/end-year/dch-rebates/)

And either ask for, or download the Tax credit claim form (IR526).

Note: You can't put in a claim for the current year, but there is no time limit on early years. So if you haven't claimed for years ago, then you still can.

Ian

[M-Squared]

As usual, you are an absolute wealth of information, thank you so much Ian! :nice1

[bjtb]

I would just stand your ground and calculate a percentage pro-rata and pay that.This is not compulsory they wont chase you as long as you are clear about what you will or wont do.