[evelien]

Recently I received my ITA but have decided not to go through with the procedure. Reasons: financial and medical.

But there has been something bothering me the past few months, and I do want to share my concerns with you all. And I am very interested if others share my thoughts on the matter.

It regards the NZIS policy: we all know it. NZ is looking for highly skilled immigrants with jobs all set up, and thus little risk of failure. Therefore they introduce the SMC with the fluctuating point system. In the first months after introduction it seemed to work.

But here it comes: since September 2004 NZIS no longer meets her demands. The selection point is 100, and stays up until today. Hence: a lot of people (me including) get selected with them minimum required points and no job-offer what so ever. Recently al these have received ITAs which are being processed. By now 100 pointers/no jobs even get PR without a job offer.

On first glance this is great news for a lot of us, namely the 100 pointers with no jobs. All of a sudden it becomes relatively easy to get into NZ. It’s almost to good to be true.

And here is my big concern: I learned in life that things that seem to be to good to be true, usually are NOT TRUE. Life ain’t that easy. There is something missing in the story: WHERE ARE THEY??? They meaning the immigrants NZIS were originally looking for. Let’s face it: we (100 pts/no job) are not exactly NZIS’s goal. But apparently the ones they really want are not responding in big numbers, that is why the pool is emptied every fortnight, and the 100 pts get PR without having a job.

WHERE ARE THEY? Do they know something we don’t? Why are they avoiding NZ at the moment? Is there something we are all overlooking? Why is NZIS suddenly so eager for the people they didn’t even want?

Am I the only one who’s bothered by this? I would really appreciate other opinions.

[Mike & Nicola]

To put another spin on it, surely people with over 100 points WITHOUT a job offer are more qualified/experienced than those who just get 100 points ONLY by gaining a job offer? :?

Mike

[Hannah-NL]

Maybe I'm getting this wrong... but I think this has a lot to do with NZ employers not very eager to offer people a job unless they are already in NZ? This is not about the applications without "a job", they all might have jobs, all they need is to get a job offer for NZ, and they will get 50 or more points. Those with 100 points might well have lots of qualifications, but just no job yet... I hope this helps, some what?

[Bubbles]

evelien,

Quote
" WHERE ARE THEY? Do they know something we don’t? Why are they avoiding NZ at the moment? Is there something we are all overlooking? Why is NZIS suddenly so eager for the people they didn’t even want? "


Although the SMC draw point is set at 100 at the moment I'm pretty sure there are people submitting EOI's who do actually score above that mark aswell, and enter the pool. albeit, not for long at the moment. What's the difference between a 100pt scorer and 150pt, (and don't say 50pts) NZIS score trades/qualifications and professions differently. When the SMC was set up I guess the jobs/professions that pulled that sought of point power were in very short supply, however as I'm sure you are aware, that list of priority jobs (POL)has just been re-assessed back in December and there now are a quite a few trades that have moved up onto that list.
What I'm getting at is, NZ needs people with a good balance of skills between them. It's what the market dictates at the moment and if people can qualify with 100pts, then good luck to them.

John

[feathers]

I think what evelien is getting at is why aren't the doctors, civil engineers, computer programmers etc etc heading to NZ in their droves, that when NZIS came up with the SMC it was to address the shortage of skills in NZ and that people like myself even though I qualify with 100 points am probably not what NZIS have at the top of their list of ideal candidates.

But I think with any new system it has to be tried and tested and changes made to it to make it work and the SMC is still relatively newThe NZIS are working on it, making changes to points allocations, the occupations on the skills shortage lists etc etc But by and large I think the SMC works.

I don't think there is anything wrong with New Zealand and that all the skilled migrants are staying away which is what I took evelien to be asking. Obviously if you are in high demand occupation the world offers many opportunities for you and as we all know NZ doesn't pay high wages which may be a deterrant. Also NZ is on the other side of the world and I guess that might be off putting to some people who want to make a start in a new country, places nearer to home like Canada might look more appealing. And in that vain the nearness to home bit makes it easier to go over and find out more about the country, look for that job offer, decide if and where you would want to settle. These are all the things I think might stop skilled migrants looking at NZ.

But maybe I've just misinterpreted the question!!
Take care
Feathers

[MB]

Evelien - I appreciate the general feeling of puzzlement you have.

Here are some thoughts:

1.) As Mike implies, 100(+) points -- plus the pricey marathon that is the application process -- is not really scraping the barrel ESPECIALLY in the context of NZ's current economy/worker situation. Our prinicipal app. has two BAs and an MA, all of them directly or strongly related to her skill area, plus 8-12 years of relevant experience (depending on how you count), plus a spouse with a qual., plus we both speak English as our first language.... and we only got to 115 points.
Also, though a lot of people on these forums have been getting upfront PR, I don't know how many no-job-offer applicants as a whole have been getting upfront PR. Maybe most, maybe our population here online is skewed. Just don't know.

2.) I have a suspicion that what may be putting quite a few desirable folks off NZ is that, compared with the rip-roaring economy of places like the UK, NZ money-earning is not great. People currently in their 20s-40s were brought up in the 1980s-1990s, with no huge war going on, and so many of them value high wages, vehicles and vacations v.highly when it comes to certain crunch lifestyle decisions. So somewhere such as NZ doesn't fit in with this as well as does, say, England, Australia, a lot of the US, etc.
Combine NZ's 'challenge' in this regard with the other economic/labor drains right now and they probabably have a legitimate problem in attracting migrants. Not to mention the unhelpful effect of the visa/job-offer Catch 22 already mentioned.

Cheers,
Matt.

[sarahw]

NZ has the lowest unemployment in the world (or did have last month according to the news!) - they're not only desperate for skilled/qualified jobs but to cover jobs in all areas. I think that answers why they're letting people in without job offers and have left the points system at 100 for a while & have - there are plenty of jobs out there & they simply have the bandwidth to take on more incoming people than they did in previous years. The economy is booming here which is stimulating more jobs being created etc. but they simply don't have the people with the experience/skills to fill the gaps. Believe me if the economy takes a dive & they suddenly find that they're filling all the jobs they'll hike the points back up & make it harder to get in! Our view was - get in whilst its easy this may be our only chance and 2 or 5 years down the line we may be kicking ourselves that was our only chance & we didn't take it!

In one advertisement on the TV it says 'NZ population 5 million - only a million of us aren't at home at the moment' - if that's true (and I have no idea if it is) then that's 1/5 of the population & probably mostly working age people doing their OE that they are missing from their workforce! I know in the case of Ian's job they're really struggling in construction management because most people qualify - see big bucks elsewhere & go & do their OE, earn a ton of money before coming home, hence leaving a huge gap in the NZ job market where they don't have enough people to cover their requirements.

I agree with MB's sentiments - we had a job offer & qualifications & have both been working as experts in our fields for 15 years but between us (without having our quals NZQA assessed) only got 115 points (with job offer!!) - we had to wait quite a while for the points to come down to a reasonable enough amount for us to come out for interviews & know we could get in - I don't think NZIS are letting just anyone in - they still have to fill quite strict criteria & its not like the people without jobs are getting in that quickly - I know from the forum a lot of people have to wait a long time to get ITA from when they are selected at EOI.

Reasons for people not coming over here in droves (and frankly I wouldn't want it any other way!) is probably as mentioned before - relative salaries, the fact that many people probably wouldn't consider leaving their families & friends or where they live now (I know one of my closest friends still can't understand why we did this & thinks we're crazy). The distance from anywhere else - its not like you can just hop on a plane & be back home in an hour! Elderly parents that you feel you should stay at home for as they have noone else. etc.

I hope this answers a few of your questions!

[SoCal Gal]

I just wanted to weigh in too, as we thought we were going to have a pretty easy go at it with the whole process....and the thing is, my birthday put us in a whole new points category, and I am no where near ready for the old folks home! I have degree, in future growth area, plus 10 years+ experience, husband has quals in nursing and as a computer tech, but only 2 year schooling each - which gave him zilch in the points department! We bought a house outside of Wellington last year, figured that once the points came down to 100 (I had been in the pool since Feb 2004 and nearly died when the first draw was 185 points!) and agonized every two weeks for the points to come down. Anyway, long story short, my take is when people think of the fantasy of New Zealand, it is all good. I even have a little crafts company where I sell items at candle parties, and I call it "NZ Dreams" and save the money towards my life there (its not much, but I have fun with it) but when it gets down to the nitty-gritty oh - expense of moving, how far away it is, etc., I think lots of people "call the whole thing off". There is a lot more to making your NZ Dream come true than finding out whether or not there are the same foodstuffs as you have back home, and how much does shampoo and dog grooming cost. This is a huge decision, and we have been thrown for so many loops in getting to this point, that if we really, really didn't mean to go through with it, we'd have given it a rest by now. My husband lived in our house for a month last September, and that made it very real. Warts and all, we are going for it, but it is a HUGE undertaking, and people really, really have to feel in their hearts that they are going for something much better. If we had kids, it'd be an awesome place to raise them, now we're just hoping it will be an awesome place to grow old gracefully - in decades, folks, MANY decades!
:cool

[Bubbles]

Great post

:yes

[Going2NZ]

SoCal Gal-

Wow, great comments and so close to what I and my husband think.

You're right, its good to know the details, but we'd figure out a way to make it happen anyhow because we believe that this is the life we want. Maybe its easier for us since neither of us has much family to speak of and those we have, we're not close to.

Its very easy to get caught up in the minutiae but, big picture - this isn't a whim, its a life.

Thanks so much. I've been feeling down about fighting our way through the red tape. You put it in perspective for me.

Susan

[MB]

Well said, Bubbles. Great post by SoCal.

Her post is a reminder that the NZIS process, even in some pretty straightforward instances, can sometimes feel more like SAS* selection!! :yes (New reality TV show: NZIS: Are You Tough Enough? :laugh )

Actually, that's a light-hearted comparison that is probably accurate in one huge respect: which is that by all accounts you'll be massively more likely to achieve either goal if you really, really want to.

It seems that every NZ challenge has to be countered by a new degree of doggedness or other strategy....look at SoCal's attitude... which we'll likely only find resources for if we're committed to the idea.

And, as has been suggested before (by, erm, me, at least), the whole migration thing begins on the day someone starts the process, not on the day they get their visa! :nice1

(*= for anyone who doesn't know, the SAS is an army unit reputed to have a breathtakingly long and difficult selection process, in which the possibility of rejection at any stage of the months-long haul is considered a big psychological factor. Ring any bells? :laugh :laugh Just kidding. )

Cheers,
Matt.

[Gran]

I was wondering when this would come up. Acording to the Herald the Govt have told NZIS to get a move on as we need so many skilled people right now. So it looks as though they have pulled finger already. Just make the most of it because when the economy slows down so will the NZIS!!!

[Nicola]

I kind of disagree with what you say about the highly skilled people not wanting to make the move. Since I have let some of my Computer Professional friends know we are going quite a few have tried to see if they would have enough points and they did not meet the 100 point minimum. Even though they are highly qualified in their field and have tons of experience.

It took my degree, Peter's Dentistry degree and my 10years experience to get us up to 130 points. So I do not think that 100 is scraping the bottom of the barrel. There are people over here who are skilled and would like to go, but just can not make it with the points system. Peter as an experienced Dentist would not have had enough points without a job offer. That is why I am the main applicant.

Also what could put some Doctors or medical people of is the fact that they have re-register with their particular professional bodies in NZ in order to practive there. I think Peter as a dentist must sit an exam before he can register.

[Danpoll]

I have a theory on this subject: I believe that in the short term aftermath of 9/11 the amount of immigrants heading to countries seemingly relativly safe would risen dramatically. Also a couple of films about some hobbits would have no doubt suddnly promoted new zealand to international awareness, I know I had never seen images of the country before then. I happen to think that the fun of LOTR has now warn off and awareness is dropping as is the volume of 190 point applicants. Then the 100 point procedure is implemented to keep the people comming in. These and the steps to get kiwis back home makes nzis seem rather desperate. Seems like the new film of the hobbit cant come soon enough.

Dan

[Hannah-NL]

Surely those with 190 points are people who had their papers assessed by NZQA and have a job offer? I know if you don't have all that, you would be under or around the 100

I know we, as a somewhat "older" couple with kids, hubby in IT, lots of years of experience in a field that is on the OSL, or POL.. (I forgot what the list is called right now), anyway we really will have to depend on either the points we gain through the NZQA points or by getting a job offer.

After that we need to go to NZ and secure that job, they're saying there's loads of jobs, last saturday at the immigration fair over here a NZIS official said it would not be a problem with either one of those to get in ...
It's just employers have to boldly go and hire those out here..
Or am I putting things too simple now?

[kiwidollie]

Very interesting topic this.

Its very easy to get caught up in the minutiae but, big picture - this isn't a whim, its a life.

So true.....

[Moorf]

Fantastic post SoCal Gal :clap