[PeKaJoSa]

Looking at these forums, it appears that NZ housebuilding methods & standards used to be quite outdated, but in recent years have begun to catch up with modern European and North American standards.

Structural Insulated Panel (SIP) constuction is starting to gain acceptance as a 'mainstream' construction method in the UK, and I'm guessing it is (or will be) popular in many cold & temperate weather areas. Now I'm certainly *not* a structural engineer, but it also looks to me like a method for building which would be very suitable in earthquake-prone areas. (But I could be wrong....!)

Does anyone know if there are any firms in NZ which are builiding houses using SIPs?

Cheers!
Pete.

[JandM]

I did a Google search. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=structural+insulated+panels+NZ&aq=f&oq= Maybe somebody will have dealt with one of these?

[PeKaJoSa]

Sorry, I should have said that I already tried a Google search - but usually there is nothing which can beat the quality of responses from the members here... :)

Cheers!
Pete.

[welsh_italian]

Sorry, I should have said that I already tried a Google search - but usually there is nothing which can beat the quality of responses from the members here... :)

Cheers!
Pete.

I have to say thanks Pete - I was just going to ask the same question about SIPs :)

[ant7jen]

Do you mean more of a manufactured home within a warehouse, shipped, and built on the property?

Everything dealing with home construction has a different name than it has in the US (I know you probably already know this). Maybe SIP's has a different name in NZ?

Here is a link for some builders and kitset homes, just scroll down and someone might have what you are looking for.

http://www.nzs.com/business/trade/building-and-construction/supplies/kitset-homes/




I also found another helpful website that has all the NZ terminology in building. Didnt see SIP in particular but I would bet they call it something else here somewhere.

http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/tools/glossary.php#S

[welsh_italian]

Do you mean more of a manufactured home within a warehouse, shipped, and built on the property?

Everything dealing with home construction has a different name than it has in the US (I know you probably already know this). Maybe SIP's has a different name in NZ?

Here is a link for some builders and kitset homes, just scroll down and someone might have what you are looking for.

http://www.nzs.com/business/trade/building-and-construction/supplies/kitset-homes/

I also found another helpful website that has all the NZ terminology in building. Didnt see SIP in particular but I would bet they call it something else here somewhere.

http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/tools/glossary.php#S

SIP homes are (generally) prefabricated but the difference between SIP and other kit forms is the panels themselves - they are an excellent idea of sandwiching polystyrene (expanded or extruded) between 2 structure boards (often strand board/waferboard). Many kit homes are more conventional in construction which (if they're the older type of homes in NZ) have the usual problems with moisture and temperature insulation. SIP panelling seems to get around these issues very well indeed and I am seriously considering their use because of their benefits. I'm also interested in their long-term durability and from what I've read it seems to be good, but that will depend largely on the quality of panel construction.

For some reason, NZ has come late into the game with SIP. They've been in use in Europe and the US for a long time, but many NZ house-builders seem to cling to old methods.

[James 1077]

SIP homes are (generally) prefabricated but the difference between SIP and other kit forms is the panels themselves - they are an excellent idea of sandwiching polystyrene (expanded or extruded) between 2 structure boards (often strand board/waferboard). Many kit homes are more conventional in construction which (if they're the older type of homes in NZ) have the usual problems with moisture and temperature insulation. SIP panelling seems to get around these issues very well indeed and I am seriously considering their use because of their benefits. I'm also interested in their long-term durability and from what I've read it seems to be good, but that will depend largely on the quality of panel construction.

For some reason, NZ has come late into the game with SIP. They've been in use in Europe and the US for a long time, but many NZ house-builders seem to cling to old methods.


That sounds a lot like insulation to me - which around here is a very definite four letter word that must not be spoken about! :)

[hball]

Two companies come to mind: Thermawise (www.thermawise.co.nz) and Cornerstone (4-cornerstone.com), both NZ companies. In fact Cornerstone has been around for some 10 years!

For building with insulated concrete panels there are quite a few companies here - try Hebel, Celcrete, Ytong, or Litecrete amonst others.

[Nathan]

You might want to Google "nz monolithic polystyrene leaky" for some useful information.

Cheers

[PeKaJoSa]

It looks like there is some confusion here, as SIPs are effectively a type of wall rather than a form of "cladding" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_Insulated_Panels

However it's also possible that SIP structures which are poorly manufactured or assembled could suffer from some of the 'leaky building' issues. But then again, *any* house put together badly, or built with any substandard materials is a recipe for trouble..!

Cheers,
Pete.

[Nathan]

It looks like there is some confusion here, as SIPs are effectively a type of wall rather than a form of "cladding" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_Insulated_Panels

However it's also possible that SIP structures which are poorly manufactured or assembled could suffer from some of the 'leaky building' issues. But then again, *any* house put together badly, or built with any substandard materials is a recipe for trouble..!

Cheers,
Pete.
No misunderstanding here. Walls generally require cladding. SIP walls are associated with leaky buildings in NZ (read the article). Yes, it's shoddy workmanship, design, etc. (again, read). In this case it's a sizable problem.

From: http://www.buildingsurveyor.co.nz/
"The NZ Herald has run articles about leaky homes since breaking the story years ago. On 10/10/07 they are saying there are 80,000 people living in 30,000 rotting houses which will cost somewhere between 2.8 and 4.5 billion to fix. Read more"

Keep in mind that this is not a USA or EU size economy, so 9-zeros is a big thing.

I'm not suggesting that SIP is an inherently flawed product. I'm simply suggesting that anyone considering them in NZ be aware of alleged issues.

.... and I'm clearly in violation of the happy talk rule so I'll quit this thread now.

[PeKaJoSa]

I done a bit of reading (not a huge amount though..!) on the 'leaky building' issue, but it does seem to be something which is very specific to NZ - I haven't heard of SIP constructions having this type of widespread problem elsewhere (UK or USA, etc.)

As you said "anyone considering them in NZ be aware of alleged issues." (with the emphasis of *in NZ*). This suggests the actual local method of panel production, rather than the fundamental concept of SIP construction, is likely to be the root cause.

Don't get me wrong though Nathan, I'm all for people flagging possible problems. After all, I'd rather hear about potential issues *before* a house is built rather than *afterwards*!

:)

Cheers!
Pete.

[jonSE]

Leaky building syndrome (as defined by the press) wasn't specifically a SIP issue. It was basically a detailing problem.

I don't know and can't understand why but NZ like OZ (where I live now) seem to have this issue with accepting new technologies from overseas. For some reason they wait until it is 20 year old technology in the US or Europe then insist on taking the 20 year old version and re-learning/ reinventing "for the local conditions" with the result that they are generally about 40 years behind the times.

I can not understand why they can't just have the wit to say "hey saw this on the internet last week, we'll wait until they've solved all the problem 20 years down the line and then just use it.

to be fair I guess that the pace of change in the building industry (worldwide) is so slow, with good reason that stuff that was 20 years old in the UK that landed here 20years ago - so the news that it has finally been perfected only landed last week has been overtaken by something that started in the UK last year and thanks to more modern testing and high speed communications is now old news here.

Having siad all that - perhaps not very clearly - the responsible building professionals anywhere in the world do tend to be a bit slow to uptake new ideas for good reason, historically proven, many times over.

[ant7jen]

I have wanted a monolothic dome with polystyrine coated for insulation, then shotcrete with concrete for years but if or when we move to NZ, I dunno if it would be a good idea considering no one there builds them. I am interested in the SIP's for insulation. Polystyrine is the best insulator on the market.

[JandM]

I have wanted a monolothic dome with polystyrine coated for insulation, then shotcrete with concrete for years but if or when we move to NZ, I dunno if it would be a good idea considering no one there builds them. I am interested in the SIP's for insulation. Polystyrine is the best insulator on the market.We've been looking into those. The company says they can be delivered anywhere in the world, but despite enquiries from people in the UK and NZ, nobody has yet bought one. I wonder if it's a planning permission issue? Certainly the council here (North Dorset, UK) would take some convincing that a dome fitted into the local scene, I think.

[Super_BQ]

Has anyone addressed the issue with how long polystyrene lasts before it breaks down? I'm more concerned with the use of that material that is exposed in the wall as say being sandwiched? This may not be an issue where polystyrene is used concrete foundation where it's fully encapsulated and sealed. However, I havn't seen figures on how long polystyrene lasts before it breaks down and releases toxic fumes into the living space? This may be like the issue with using asbestos where it took many decades later to find the cause of asbestosis.

Sometimes it's best to forget the latest space age techniques and go back to something more logic. Such as... building homes with THICKER walls (2 x 6" wood framing like done in Canada). Also there's nothing wrong with fiberglass insulation.

BQ

[The Hodges]

IanW99 has pointed me in the direction of this thread and I apologise for the late reply, but things have been hectic. Excuses excuses I know.

Anyway, to add my two cents worth, I haven't heard of SIPs, but on the face of it they sound like a good idea. I have not heard of a house being constructed with them - in the UK or NZ. It sounds like US technology to me. So whether they are good or bad, I can't answer, but what I can say is that many building control authorities will be reluctant to accept any technology without a BRANZ appraisal - so if there is any new technology then anyone will be hard pressed to get a council to accept it - especially on the back of the leaky building crisis.

And the polystyrene insulation mentioned in the thread and involved with leaky buildings is different to SIPs. The polystyrene was used as a cladding and then coated. According to the manufacturers it should last a minimum of 15 years (as required by the Building Code). The trouble is the detailing.

Good luck though and all the best.

[PeKaJoSa]

IanW99 has pointed me in the direction of this thread and I apologise for the late reply, but things have been hectic. Excuses excuses I know.

Anyway, to add my two cents worth, I haven't heard of SIPs, but on the face of it they sound like a good idea. I have not heard of a house being constructed with them - in the UK or NZ. It sounds like US technology to me. So whether they are good or bad, I can't answer, but what I can say is that many building control authorities will be reluctant to accept any technology without a BRANZ appraisal - so if there is any new technology then anyone will be hard pressed to get a council to accept it - especially on the back of the leaky building crisis.

And the polystyrene insulation mentioned in the thread and involved with leaky buildings is different to SIPs. The polystyrene was used as a cladding and then coated. According to the manufacturers it should last a minimum of 15 years (as required by the Building Code). The trouble is the detailing.

Good luck though and all the best.

You'd be right in guessing that the idea of SIP panels was originally developed in the USA, but the fundamental idea of building with "stressed skin panels" (the forerunner to SIPs) originated back in the 1930's. As such, I'd be hard pushed to call it "new technology" - but then compared to what appears to be NZ thinking on building design, maybe it is quite a 'new idea' by NZ standards... :laugh

The first 'stressed skin' building was built in Wisconsin in 1937, and I believe it's still in use today. SIP panels (in the modern sense) began in to be made in in the late 1940's, and a building made with the first polystyrene core SIPS from the 1960's is apparently still standing...

As far a SIP panel construction in the UK, the longest established maker is SIPTEC and they have been going for the last 24 years. However they make panels with polyurethane cores, so in that case any concerns regarding polystyrene don't apply. The insulation values of polyurethane core SIP houses are so high that pretty much every 'normal' domestic boiler will produce far too much heat. In fact often a few people & lamps are all that is needed to provide the majority of house heating!

So maybe I should revise my original post and ask if anyone has built (or is aware of someone who has built) a house using polyurethane-core SIP panels anywhere in NZ...?

Cheers!
Pete.