[tyhapus]

Just wondering what fuel we would go for in NZ? Diesel is cheaper but has a surcharge, petrol isn't cheaper but no additional costs but proabbly get less MPG and more wear and tear!

Vote now!!

[rizjunior]

Diesel engine is noisy and maintenance costs are more compared to Petrol.

[jadugar]

it depends which mod of transportation you going to use. If only car is concerned and travelling is not much a day then petrol. If heavy transportation and more travelling is there then Diesel.

[JandM]

Yes, everyone's circumstances are going to vary so much, what anyone else prefers isn't really very relevant.

[ColeyNZ]

I'm all for Diesel. The engines tend to last longer, your MPG is usually at least double of petrol and if it is a new low sulfur diesel, the emissions are on part what petrol puts out.

[Paul]

if you are buying a new/newish car then diesel may be worth considering as technology has moved on massively. I've just switched here in Uk from petrol to diesel and my new one is impressive in economy and especially performance ( by petrol or diesel standards )

Service intervals i believe are usually longer for diesel also

[IanW99]

Although diesel vehicles are common in UK it should be noted that they are not yet in NZ (for family cars).

For example, Ford have only just started selling a diesel version of the Mondeo even though the various models have been available in other countries for years.

So if you are looking for a diesel model you may well find that it doesn't exist in NZ, or may be rare to find.

As they are not yet common you may also find it difficult to sell the vehicle later.

Ian

[James 1077]

In the recent fuel efficiency rally diesel came out much more efficient but petrol came out cheaper due to the additional road user charges on diesel.

So I would say petrol; until road user charges are scrapped - which won't be for a long time I think!

[YouMeAndThree]

OH has petrol, I've got diesel - best of both worlds?

[Nick88]

In the recent fuel efficiency rally diesel came out much more efficient but petrol came out cheaper due to the additional road user charges on diesel.

So I would say petrol; until road user charges are scrapped - which won't be for a long time I think!

I've had both here, and that's exactly the conclusion I came to. You get better mileage from a cheaper fuel, but the Road User Charge wipes out any advantages by charging per km. Diesels are noisier, the fuel stinks if you get it on your hands at the pump, and they cost more to service or get fixed when something goes wrong.

Go with petrol - for a quiet life.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Although diesel vehicles are common in UK it should be noted that they are not yet in NZ (for family cars).

For example, Ford have only just started selling a diesel version of the Mondeo even though the various models have been available in other countries for years.

So if you are looking for a diesel model you may well find that it doesn't exist in NZ, or may be rare to find.

As they are not yet common you may also find it difficult to sell the vehicle later.

Ian

Our preference would be diesel......we used to get 72mpg from our 1.9 diesel estate in UK and it was a lot more nippy that the older diesels used to be......but unable to find an equivalent large family car here that we could afford to ended up with a petrol engine.....pain as need to refuel much more frequently, and found it much better drive in bad weather.

[chocolate cake]

I voted for petrol, but it would definitely be diesel if it wasn't for the diesel road users surcharge which unfairly penalises economic diesel cars. My last car in the UK was diesel, performance was just as good if not better than similar petrol car before it and economy wise was much better.

In NZ though with the lower fuel prices and road user charge, there seems to be much fewer diesels around, indeed the Japanese manufacturers have only just started importing them.

[Jo Jo]

According to the AA, petrol vehicles work out cheaper if you drive less than 15,000 km per year, and diesel vehicles cheaper if you drive more than that, taking into account Road User Charges etc.

[aberdian]

It doesn't really matter - it's all about the capital cost of the car up front. What you pay for diesel/petrol really doesn't have a huge impact over the life of the car. If you paid $10k more for a diesel, how long would it take to claw that back over the lifetime of the car, with better mileage, running costs, wear + tear? I did the numbers a few years back in the UK when diesels were more expensive than petrols and had better mileage and was really surpised at how long it took to "break even". Capital cost is the watchword :)

[bobo]

It doesn't really matter - it's all about the capital cost of the car up front. What you pay for diesel/petrol really doesn't have a huge impact over the life of the car.

However you are more likely to have a longer car life with a diesel. It's not unheard of having a diesel engine run for over a million miles (ok mostly hgv's), thats why the london taxis are mostly diesel. So it depends upon whether you are thinking about buying for a few years or to run into the ground.

If you are looking to have a lot of pulling power (aren't we all) then a diesel is best.

[mylesdw]

However you are more likely to have a longer car life with a diesel. It's not unheard of having a diesel engine run for over a million miles (ok mostly hgv's), thats why the london taxis are mostly diesel. So it depends upon whether you are thinking about buying for a few years or to run into the ground.


This may have been true when car diesel engines were based upon commercial vehicle units but I don't believe it is now. The modern car diesel is highly stressed and cheaply made; I wouldn't expect it to last any longer than a petrol unit and any breakdown is liable to be more expensive.

[bobo]

I wouldn't expect it to last any longer than a petrol unit and any breakdown is liable to be more expensive.

250K miles from a modern diesel car engine is not out of the question.

[bobo]

http://cars.about.com/od/dieselvehicles/a/What_is_diesel.htm

from link above
diesel cars often run well past 300,000 miles with no major engine problems

[mylesdw]

250K miles from a modern diesel car engine is not out of the question.

Nor is it for a modern petrol engine. As for the claim that "diesel cars often run well past 300,000 miles with no major engine problems " my question is "well where are they then?". A quick (and not at all scientific) look through UK's Ebay found ONE diesel out of 15,000 odd with that sort of mileage. On NZ's TradeMe there are precious few over 300,000 kilometers, let alone miles.

From personal experience the diesels I have owned are definitely showing their age by the time they pass 100k miles. The only two cars I have come across with truly stellar mileages were both petrol.

[James 1077]

Modern diesels are highly tuned and suffer badly if poor quality fuel is used.

In addition they are more complex machines in modern cars as various things have had to be done to get rid of the diesel image. Unfortunately these add to complexity and can fail (dual mass fly-wheels being a particularly expensive example of common issues - as is turbo failure). Also if you are only using it for short distances then they are very prone to issues as they need to be warmed up (and cooled down) properly.

Your best bet for a long engine life is a simple and big petrol engine. Smaller petrol engines again are too highly tuned and so are prone to failure.

But frequent oil changes (much more frequent than per the servicing schedule), regular servicing, proper running in and driving with different styles for longer periods will give long and trouble free life to almost any car you buy!

[JandM]

"well where are they then?". Not wanting to argue on technical matters, but logic here suggests, 'In the hands of the still happy owner.' S/He wouldn't be a change-my-car-each-year merchant, or he wouldn't be running anything old anyway, so he'd quite likely hang on to old faithful, not sell it.

[janrzm]

In light of this poll has anyone any views on what I should do with my car??

Bring or Sell??

Volvo XC90 - Diesel - 2.3 years old 23k on the clock.
Will take a massive hit if we sell.
But would it be wise to shell out another 3K?? to ship it.

We wouldn't be looking for anything like it in NZ - would probably go for something like a previa [ 2nd hand ]

Thanks

[mylesdw]

In light of this poll has anyone any views on what I should do with my car??

Bring or Sell??

Volvo XC90 - Diesel - 2.3 years old 23k on the clock.
Will take a massive hit if we sell.
But would it be wise to shell out another 3K?? to ship it.

Thanks

You can get the Volvo shipped to Auckland for much less than that on a ro-ro. I had a quote recently for shifting a Jag and it was more like ukp 1000 for the trip. On the other hand if you put it in a container you can bring a load of other stuff that you might otherwise have sold.

[James 1077]

In light of this poll has anyone any views on what I should do with my car??

Bring or Sell??

Volvo XC90 - Diesel - 2.3 years old 23k on the clock.
Will take a massive hit if we sell.
But would it be wise to shell out another 3K?? to ship it.

We wouldn't be looking for anything like it in NZ - would probably go for something like a previa [ 2nd hand ]

Thanks


I would bring it because, as you say, you will take a massive hit on the depreciation otherwise. Check on the costs though as 3k is quite expensive for shipping a car.

Don't worry too much about the Road User Charges for diesels here as, although they do make diesels more expensive, they aren't crippling.

You are also more likely to make use of the 4x4 in NZ than the UK if you head up to the mountains for skiing etc.

[janrzm]

Thanks for the info so far.

The 3k was a kind of guess for all in costs including customs/ins & getting it on the road. Waiting for a quote for the ro/ro service someone gave the link for.
So far I've had £1650 shipping & £320 customs charges.

[IanW99]

...
Bring or Sell??

Volvo XC90 - Diesel - 2.3 years old 23k on the clock.
Will take a massive hit if we sell.
But would it be wise to shell out another 3K?? to ship it.

We wouldn't be looking for anything like it in NZ - would probably go for something like a previa [ 2nd hand ]

Thanks

There doesn't appear to be many of them in NZ, or at least not many for sale. I would have said as the diesel model may be rare you may not get the parts, or be able to get it serviced. But did see a Volvo dealer that appears to be selling some? It might be a good idea to contact a dealer and ask them about servicing just to be sure.

You can also check out how much you could sell it for in NZ should you want to sell it later (you may well get more for it in NZ than in the UK).

Why wouldn't you want the same car in NZ? If you don't want it, then it may be a lot easier to just sell it now.

Ian

[James 1077]

There doesn't appear to be many of them in NZ, or at least not many for sale.

I've seen a fair few around - both petrol and diesel. So they are here.

[janrzm]

There doesn't appear to be many of them in NZ, or at least not many for sale. I would have said as the diesel model may be rare you may not get the parts, or be able to get it serviced. But did see a Volvo dealer that appears to be selling some? It might be a good idea to contact a dealer and ask them about servicing just to be sure.

You can also check out how much you could sell it for in NZ should you want to sell it later (you may well get more for it in NZ than in the UK).

Why wouldn't you want the same car in NZ? If you don't want it, then it may be a lot easier to just sell it now.

Ian
Probably only wouldn't get the same as the kids are getting bigger the leg room in the back isn't great. Would manage for another couple of years. Love the car though, the downside being it's expensive to run.
Also OH has idea's about towing a boat!!

[beano_bill]

...In NZ though with the lower fuel prices and road user charge, there seems to be much fewer diesels around, indeed the Japanese manufacturers have only just started importing them.

Skoda (and before you all go :exit - they are owned, remember, by VAG) have recently committed to only supplying NZ with diesel engines.

A number of government departments have started to buy diesel following the Govt3 sustainability requirements so watch out for these at your local Turners in 3 to 5 years time.

Beano

[xanctus]

OK, I have silly question...pardon me.
So if you buy the RUC... Say $300s, for 15K kilo. Now is there any expiration date on it? or pretty much you paid that $300 and can drive it until you travel up to 15Ks? (say takes more than a year to reach that 15K).

I am really keen of getting a diesel, but not sure if that would suit our needs.

I know someone earlier said on page 1/2 that if u don't drive up till 15K/year is not worth it.

[mylesdw]

There is no expiration date on it. Sometimes when a price rise is predicted people buy very large numbers.

[xanctus]

OK, that means, diesel is quite worth it then...
hmmm...I wonder if it is suits our needs...

[xanctus]

Sorry I have to brought up the this topic again, as lately I found that I spent a lot more weekly in our petrol car. I remember a friend of mine who has diesel said that he/she spend only average $50 per 2 weeks, that seems very low compare to mine almost $70/week. I was a bit confused with the RUC thing...I also remember he said that he would spend $300s for 10Ks...now with those number, it looks like diesel is not that bad...

Any expert would chip in their thoughts???
thx

[xanctus]

Never mind, I got the answer already...

[JandM]

Sounds as if you're the expert now. Is there anything you found that might help other people who come across this thread?

[xanctus]

No, not an expert level yet...but at least get a better idea...:D
Here is the link from aa website.
http://www.aa.co.nz/motoring/tips/practical-motoring-tips/pages/petrol-or-diesel.aspx

[Kiwi Mac]

I use diesel.

I drive a Toyota Land Cruiser 05 model with a 4.2 litre turbo diesel in it.

Even with a 5 speed auto transmission I can get around 800km on $100 worth of fuel and the range is what is crucial to me.

Yes, RUC's are a hassle - I have no idea why they don't just stick it on at the pump, to be honest.

Diesel engines also tend to last longer as they are lubricated both above and below the piston rings because diesel is actually a form of oil. They also operate under less stress than petrol.

A friend of mine recently traded in a 'Cruiser, same series as mine, with 498,000 kms on the clock and it was still going fine. He never had any major mechanical issues with it.

[Jo Jo]

Yes, RUC's are a hassle - I have no idea why they don't just stick it on at the pump, to be honest.

It's because it's estimated that 36% of diesel is used off road, and it's not considered fair for non-road users to pay a road tax so if diesel was taxed at the pump then a refund system would have to be set up, and the government considers that this would be too costly, and also susceptible to fraud.

[Kiwi Mac]

It's because it's estimated that 36% of diesel is used off road, and it's not considered fair for non-road users to pay a road tax so if diesel was taxed at the pump then a refund system would have to be set up, and the government considers that this would be too costly, and also susceptible to fraud.

Shouldn't be too hard as it has already been done elsewhere.

Just use red diesel like they do in the UK for non-road applications. It's both stained and chemically marked, so fraud detection is easy enough.

Alternatively just say "tough luck" like they do to the users of petrol off the road in boats, mowers, motorcycles, generators etc. who presumably cannot reclaim the tax they pay at the pump?

[Duncan74]

It's because it's estimated that 36% of diesel is used off road, and it's not considered fair for non-road users to pay a road tax so if diesel was taxed at the pump then a refund system would have to be set up, and the government considers that this would be too costly, and also susceptible to fraud.

Which is the 'red diesel' approach we use in the UK, where you can buy 'untaxed' fuel for use off road.

[JandM]

You'll have to tell your NZ MP when you get there. ;)

[Jo Jo]

There was a review of RUC earlier this year. You can find the report here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/news/newsevents/Documents/RUC-Final-Report.pdf).

[James 1077]

Which is the 'red diesel' approach we use in the UK, where you can buy 'untaxed' fuel for use off road.

Yes, but in the UK most of the farmers that I knew drove around in diesel cars ...

Not saying that they would be using red diesel for anything else of course; but it was mentioned more than a few times that nobody was ever checked as the costs outweighed the benefits!

[mylesdw]

They do test for red diesel in the UK but it is highly targeted. I believe that places where farmers congregate are favourite since they all have access to red diesel and the temptation that it presents.

Red diesel fraud is pretty commonplace and for that reason I guess that the NZ system is better; it is more difficult to avoid.

[Kiwi Mac]

Customs visit farms in the UK randomly and have statutory powers to dip the tanks of the vehicles.

They are also often at livestock markets, agricultural machinery sales, Game Shows, County Shows etc.

Red diesel has chemical markers in it which remain in the car's fuel system for months, so even one tank occasionally will get you caught.

RUC's are still no fairer than taxing petrol users at the pump and not allowing them to claim back the tax if they put it in a non-road using vehicle etc though.

I would imagine that the cost saving on not having to create and administer the RUC system could be re-allocated to keeping an eye on the farmers who are the likely to be the ones who get access to red diesel anyway - everyone else would just be buying at the pump.

[Jo Jo]

RUC's are still no fairer than taxing petrol users at the pump and not allowing them to claim back the tax if they put it in a non-road using vehicle etc though.



Only about 6% of petrol is used for off-road purposes, compared to 36% of diesel, though, so it is fairer in a way, isn't it? That is, the current systen unfairly penalises a smaller amount of users. And a lot of the off-road petrol use is for boats (I'm not sure how much though) and there are moves to dedicate the fuel excise duty on petrol used for recreational boats to things like search and rescue, coast guards etc - I'm not sure if the bill for this has been made law yet.

I don't think RUCs are that much of a pain for the user - until recently we had a diesel vehicle (a Landcruiser as well - I loved that car!) and found buying the Road User Charges really easy, but maybe that varies by area.

[mylesdw]

Red diesel has chemical markers in it which remain in the car's fuel system for months, so even one tank occasionally will get you caught.


Not really, since it is perfectly legal to run any vehicle on red diesel as soon as it drives off the public road. You can't mix it in one tank because then technically you are using red diesel on the road but dual tanks are allowed.



I would imagine that the cost saving on not having to create and administer the RUC system could be re-allocated to keeping an eye on the farmers who are the likely to be the ones who get access to red diesel anyway - everyone else would just be buying at the pump.

I should imagine administering the RUC system is negligable since it is fully computerised and handled by the same system that does road tax. An army of inspectors with testing vans would be far more costly, particularly in a country where nearly every rural inhabitant has a use for untaxed diesel.

[Kiwi Mac]

Only about 6% of petrol is used for off-road purposes, compared to 36% of diesel, though, so it is fairer in a way, isn't it? That is, the current systen unfairly penalises a smaller amount of users. And a lot of the off-road petrol use is for boats (I'm not sure how much though) and there are moves to dedicate the fuel excise duty on petrol used for recreational boats to things like search and rescue, coast guards etc - I'm not sure if the bill for this has been made law yet.

I don't think RUCs are that much of a pain for the user - until recently we had a diesel vehicle (a Landcruiser as well - I loved that car!) and found buying the Road User Charges really easy, but maybe that varies by area.

It's not fair just because it penalises less people - otherwise all kinds of unpleasant things could be claimed as being fair!

My biggest issue is that it disrupts cashflow. Instead of playing a few dollars at a time at the pump, you have to find large lump sums.

Personally I think that even the off road uses should be taxed - I pay for schools my non-existent children don't attend, and tax to Greater Wellington for the Westpac Statdium, which is 80 kms from my house and which stages rugby matches I have no interest in, so it's only the same sort of thing!

Farmers could easily be allowed a claim in their annual accounts based on the number of litres bought during the year.

The quality of the roads is so marginal outside the city centres that I would think that anything that raised tax used to maintain and improve them by 36% of the annual diesel bill was a Good Idea, frankly.