God-Man
9th January 2009, 02:25 AM
Simple question: do Kiwis (or Brits/Aussies for that matter) think "American English" is sloppy or poorly structured? (or maybe just poorly spoken)
Do Kiwis think "American English" is sloppy?
pleccy2000
9th January 2009, 02:37 AM
On the whole no - its jsut American English, I dont think its sloppy
Brian
9th January 2009, 03:16 AM
I've never heard anyone say that. It's just an accent, and one they understand quite well because of all the TV and movies coming out of the US.
Jacqi B
9th January 2009, 03:55 AM
Well, this Brit is often amused and sometimes perplexed by the grammatical structure of spoken 'American English'.
TheNaylors
9th January 2009, 04:26 AM
I wouldn't say it is any sloppier or any poorer structured than the way that many English people speak (IMHO). Regions have become so diverse and accents are getting stronger with their own terminology that it is almost like another language in places.
There ain't many of us that speak the Queens English no more ya know!:D:laugh Apparently only 2% of Britons speak with Received Pronunciation in it's pure form according to Wikipedia
But then again...it seems as though the queen is losing it too http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1080228.stm
Julie
There ain't many of us that speak the Queens English no more ya know!:D:laugh Apparently only 2% of Britons speak with Received Pronunciation in it's pure form according to Wikipedia
But then again...it seems as though the queen is losing it too http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1080228.stm
Julie
Jacqi B
9th January 2009, 05:42 AM
There ain't many of us that speak the Queens English no more ya know!:D:laugh Apparently only 2% of Britons speak with Received Pronunciation in it's pure form according to Wikipedia
But then again...it seems as though the queen is losing it too http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1080228.stm
Julie
I'm surprised its as high as 2%! Not only the queen but other 'posh people' sound 'less RP' than they used to. There was a series of programmes on over Christmas showing interviews with famous 60s people (actors, etc) done in the 60s and them now. The change in the accents was amazing.
But then again...it seems as though the queen is losing it too http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1080228.stm
Julie
I'm surprised its as high as 2%! Not only the queen but other 'posh people' sound 'less RP' than they used to. There was a series of programmes on over Christmas showing interviews with famous 60s people (actors, etc) done in the 60s and them now. The change in the accents was amazing.
JandM
9th January 2009, 07:04 AM
Yes, American English is familiar world-wide because of advertising and entertainment. For those of us from elsewhere, I'd guess it's just 'different', but recognizable as what it is. It is a blanket term, though - there's a big diversity of accents and structures used within the US, just as there is for British English or NZ English.
Why would you think other nationalities would think it was sloppy?
Why would you think other nationalities would think it was sloppy?
gil
9th January 2009, 07:31 AM
I may well have missed your introductory post god-man - are you in linguistics? A lot of your posts seem to centre on pronounciation :)
BkyMonster
9th January 2009, 07:36 AM
The only person I had complain about anything I've said was a rather stuffy psychiatrist who kept correcting my pronunciation and telling me the way he said things was right because kiwi english was the purest form.
God-Man
9th January 2009, 07:48 AM
Why would you think other nationalities would think it was sloppy?
That's what I've heard once or twice in the past (can't remember where), thus prompting me to wonder how other english-speaking countries viewed American English.
One thing I remember is that someone I know who learned English at a school in another country then came to the US, and couldn't understand anybody. (because the language was far faster/sloppier than spoken in class) That's probably just a bad-apple example though...
I may well have missed your introductory post god-man - are you in linguistics? A lot of your posts seem to centre on pronounciation
Nope, just a soon-to-be Kiwi... who has run into one or two language-related issues. (like how to pronounce Waiheke, where I'll probably live)
That's what I've heard once or twice in the past (can't remember where), thus prompting me to wonder how other english-speaking countries viewed American English.
One thing I remember is that someone I know who learned English at a school in another country then came to the US, and couldn't understand anybody. (because the language was far faster/sloppier than spoken in class) That's probably just a bad-apple example though...
I may well have missed your introductory post god-man - are you in linguistics? A lot of your posts seem to centre on pronounciation
Nope, just a soon-to-be Kiwi... who has run into one or two language-related issues. (like how to pronounce Waiheke, where I'll probably live)
sks
9th January 2009, 08:06 AM
...Why would you think other nationalities would think it was sloppy?
Reverse hubris (justified, at least IMHO, in the case of the English themselves).
Similar to a Spaniard listening to a Puerto Rican speaking "his" language. Or a Parisian to a Cajun.
Reverse hubris (justified, at least IMHO, in the case of the English themselves).
Similar to a Spaniard listening to a Puerto Rican speaking "his" language. Or a Parisian to a Cajun.
gil
9th January 2009, 08:43 AM
One thing I remember is that someone I know who learned English at a school in another country then came to the US, and couldn't understand anybody. (because the language was far faster/sloppier than spoken in class) That's probably just a bad-apple example though...
That would be a common experience, rather than an isolated bad-apple example, if it was a second or third non-native language. Learning a language at school, even with the opportunity to practise with a few native speakers can never prepare you for the speed and accent variations of a group of simultaneous native speakers! It takes a while for the ear to adjust, but adjust it does, with time.
Gil
That would be a common experience, rather than an isolated bad-apple example, if it was a second or third non-native language. Learning a language at school, even with the opportunity to practise with a few native speakers can never prepare you for the speed and accent variations of a group of simultaneous native speakers! It takes a while for the ear to adjust, but adjust it does, with time.
Gil
mylesdw
9th January 2009, 08:53 AM
I don't find American English sloppy, just a different accent. My daughters and their friends on the other hand insist on inserting the word 'like' into every sentence as often as possible and it takes them so long to actually say anything that I've usually lost interest and wandered off.
I find written English very sloppy in NZ generally. Glaring grammar/spelling/punctuation errors in public signage and documents are very common.
I find written English very sloppy in NZ generally. Glaring grammar/spelling/punctuation errors in public signage and documents are very common.
dharder
9th January 2009, 09:07 AM
I find written English very sloppy in NZ generally. Glaring grammar/spelling/punctuation errors in public signage and documents are very common.
Yes!
My favourite so far is a magazine insert into the NZ Herald with recommendations of where to go in NZ, what the best places are. On the big map of New Zealand they showed various towns, and they misspelled Masterton.
In the same paper also a flyer announcing the programme for some 2008 Film Festival in large printed letters, which was of course the 2009 one.
Daniela
Yes!
My favourite so far is a magazine insert into the NZ Herald with recommendations of where to go in NZ, what the best places are. On the big map of New Zealand they showed various towns, and they misspelled Masterton.
In the same paper also a flyer announcing the programme for some 2008 Film Festival in large printed letters, which was of course the 2009 one.
Daniela
gil
9th January 2009, 09:18 AM
Quality of proofing, then!
Don't get me started on grammar, spelling etc - it's no worse in NZ than it was in UK!!
Don't get me started on grammar, spelling etc - it's no worse in NZ than it was in UK!!
dharder
9th January 2009, 10:00 AM
Don't get me started on grammar, spelling etc - it's no worse in NZ than it was in UK!!
I actually find it worse when it comes to more official use of language. In everyday use (emails, hand written signs in front of shops or along the roadside), I dont' see much difference between the UK and NZ.
But as soon as something is more official, or in proper print, I find it worse (sloppier, actually) here. Websites, even official ones from the City Council or .govt pages, are often full or grammatical and spelling problems, and the NZ Herald online is just awful.
Just my opinion, of course.
Daniela
I actually find it worse when it comes to more official use of language. In everyday use (emails, hand written signs in front of shops or along the roadside), I dont' see much difference between the UK and NZ.
But as soon as something is more official, or in proper print, I find it worse (sloppier, actually) here. Websites, even official ones from the City Council or .govt pages, are often full or grammatical and spelling problems, and the NZ Herald online is just awful.
Just my opinion, of course.
Daniela
mylesdw
9th January 2009, 10:12 AM
Yes, I'd agree with that Daniela. My elder daughter's school report was full of missing apostrophes (theirs not hers!) and some of the public signage makes me cringe; there is NO such word as 'mens'!
PeteS
9th January 2009, 10:06 PM
Simple question: do Kiwis (or Brits/Aussies for that matter) think "American English" is sloppy or poorly structured? (or maybe just poorly spoken)
American English isn't "sloppy", it's just based upon 16-17th Century English.
It appears to be a form of English that has remained "simple" in structure due to a large influx of immigrants, who have needed to learn english to progress through society, but due to speaking english as a second language have retained the simple structure from way back when....
Try reading some of Bill Bryson's books on the subject.
American English isn't "sloppy", it's just based upon 16-17th Century English.
It appears to be a form of English that has remained "simple" in structure due to a large influx of immigrants, who have needed to learn english to progress through society, but due to speaking english as a second language have retained the simple structure from way back when....
Try reading some of Bill Bryson's books on the subject.
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