[Jon&Candy]

Can anybody give us a rough ballpark figure on how much it would cost to replace the windows in a 3/4 bedroom house with double glazing? We know it's a "how long is a piece of string" type question, but we honestly have no idea.

We're looking to buy a 70's/80's property and without exception, the windows are rubbish. Ideally, we'd prefer uPVC windows, but if they're prohibitively expensive I guess Aluminium will have to do.

[JandL]

To add, do they use different windows for the board houses, they seem to be much thinner than the brick counterpart so presumably they use different designs in them?

[benandclare]

4 bedroom house in Chch using existing Aluminium frames $11,000 ish, cant remember exact figure :nice1

[emka]

I asked this question, i.e. the cost of retrofitting, in mid-2008 and got the following answers (excerpts):

From Metroglasstech:
Basically the finished installed product bears little visual difference to the original joinery pre the install except it is double glazed. Simply put we remove the existing bead and replace it will a wider flatter bead that allows us to utilize the whole internal size of the glazing pocket inside the joinery. The new bead is colour matched to the joinery existing colour. We then use this wider pocket to fit a custom made double glazed unit into the joinery. As for the opening sashes it depends as a number of sashes are beaded therefore we are able to utilize the sash and re bead, but if the sash is a one piece non beaded sash we simply replace that also with a colour matched double glazed profile sash . Naturally if a new sash is required this cost also need to be passed on.
Either way a good general guide for standard double glazing is $300 plus gst per square metre fitted.

From Window Association of New Zealand:
They are not easy questions to answer - as you are aware. Sometimes retrofitting of IGU [insulated glazing unit] and total replacement of the total window is a similar price. Upgrading is less invasive than total replacement, and comes in various degrees of inconvenience depending on what needs doing. Total replacement can deliver the latest technologies.
I would suggest you put aside $5,000 - $10,000 for whatever “standard” option you may eventually choose – more if you want to do it better than “average”.
The warmer the climate you live in, the longer it takes to get payback from any insulation designed to keep you warm. The government’s information is more about politics than science.
The reality is that energy efficiency is very specific to each site and the construction placed on it. The exact same materials used in different ways can have vastly different results.
You could consider hiring an EECA HERS rating assessor to advise you as part of the pre-purchase inspection – about $200 I think – it would give you a snapshot of where the house is at and what are the recommended upgrades which you can then accurately budget for before agreeing to buy.

Since last year prices might have gone up (because generally things tend to get more expensive rather than cheaper) or down (because of the new building requirements for double glazing of new buildings and hence maybe economies of scale being passed on by the double glazing industry).

Hope this is useful. If anybody has more recent ballpark figures, please update me and the other poster.

Emka

[dylan]

Not sure about your reasons for replacing the windows I suspect they are beyond repair.

But to add a dimention to this thread for people looking to replace for energy reasons it will take on average around 20 years to recoup the cost of the windows in savings made to your energy bills. As a qualified energy assessor I would advise that there are better and cheaper ways to make your home energy efficient, but for comfort and maintanence reasons upvc has to be the best option.

[lockstock]

We looked at DG for our house renovation and we were quoted $13k for a thre bedroomed house. We looked carefully at the existing windows which need painting but are in extremely good condition otherwise. The we found out the roof needs replacing so the windows are now out of the window as it were. But they fit in with the style of the house and we'll cope -good curtains and a good ventilation system...

[westi]

We've had 2 x quotes recently for double glazing a 3 bed house in ChCh and they both came out at around $18,000

[Big Puku]

We got a quote for uPVC double glazing last year (as I really don't like aluminium), and it was just over $20k all up for a 4 bed / 180 sqm house.

[broadsword08]

our windows needed replacing, majority of frames rotten and warped beyond repair

the quotes we had were as follows, for 13 windows (7 x 2m x 1.5m, 4 x 1.5m x 1.5m and 2 x 1.2m x 0.9m ) and 2 (full glass) external doors, supplied and fitted including GST.

like for like (pine frames, rimu sills, single glazed) - 11500
double glazed aluminium - 16500 to 23000
double glazed aluminium with thermal break - 26500 to 32000
uPVC - 28000 to 36000

our advice, you get the best that you can afford at the time with something like this... whilst a house is only a house it is our family home and we dont see any reason why we should become kiwified with respect to ridiculously poor living conditions (;o))

if you can afford a themal break or uPVC, get it - if you can't, get double glazed aluminium... we did the latter, chose a reputable local firm and haggled a bit on the price, we get a bit of condensation on the frames when its really cold out and warm inside but compared to what we had before it really isnt an issue, we are a lot warmer and drier, there are no drafts and no ice on the inside of the windows anymore (!) the house looks great and our living space is transformed with 35% more glass area.

make sure you get a good firm to make and fit, I am a tradesman and a lot of the work I see around and about is sub-standard to be perfectly honest... speak to builders you trust and ask where they get the windows they fit and whether their supplier has an installs team... the guys who made our frames fitted them to our home.

additonally for my 10 cents, if you need new windows get them of course, however there are other much cheaper ways to make your home warmer... we used the clean heat clean air program to get underfloor insulation fitted and black plastic fixed to the ground under the house to reduce the cold and damp coming up under the timber floor... the single biggest difference $300 has made to our home... aside from that, $100 for a few cans of expanding foam around the edges of the foundation walls to stop the drafts coming up between floor and skirting makes a big difference too... oh and did I say about drafts in walls (hold the back of your hand up to the hole in the wall after removing a plug socket or light switch) and making sure you have good insulation in the roof and no water sitting anywhere near the house!

rant over... buggered if I am gonna be cold!

[westi]

We've decided to go with Rylock in Chch for our replacement windows ( alum' double glazed ) Has anyone heard anything, or had any experience with them ? ( Before we sign on the doted line ! )

[samfoster]

Hi,

I think it's depend on manufacturer or suppliers. The advantage of dealing with leading manufacturers is that you get the best service from him. Local manufacturer and leading manufacturer's price is different. But leading manufacturer gives us quality and service in uPVC Windows (http://www.conservatoryoutlet.co.uk/upvc_double_glazing_windows.php).

[clarice]

Hi Westi did you get your windows done by Rylock in the end? We have just had them round to quote today and was after an opinion...

Cheers :)

[westi]

They're actually supposed to come and do a final measure this week with a view to having them fitted by the end of April so can let you know then - it's a big decision isn't it !

[clarice]

You're not kidding! But we were so cold last Winter we have to bite the bullet and do this I think. We have a quote from Canterbury Aluminium and just waiting for the one from Rylock. A bit worried - its alot of money and we have just been through some awful problems with our roofers. Have you been to the Environment Canterbury house in Papanui thats all done up with insulation, double glazing, heating etc to look at?

[Wooly_Cow]

Not sure about your reasons for replacing the windows I suspect they are beyond repair.

But to add a dimention to this thread for people looking to replace for energy reasons it will take on average around 20 years to recoup the cost of the windows in savings made to your energy bills. As a qualified energy assessor I would advise that there are better and cheaper ways to make your home energy efficient, but for comfort and maintanence reasons upvc has to be the best option.

Whilst I certainly don't dispute your expertise or calculations, it does puzzle me that in New Zealand there seems to be a ' it doesn't cost in' response to loads of insulation and heating efficiency measures that are considered ‘standard’ in many other countries with a similar climate.

Retrofitting of course is expensive though in the case of loft insulation, cavity or wall insulation and under floor insulation not that expensive, but what really gets me is responses I have heard from builders of new houses who are STILL not fitting double glazing as standard because ‘it is not required in this area’ ….yet! I am no expert but would reckon once the laws of supply and demand kick in (as they have much of Europe) DG is no more expensive for a new house than single glazing.

Honestly if you did a thermal image of New Zealand on a winters night …..it’d glow like it was radioactive! Forget switching of the lights for 60 mins....how about building proper houses!

…and finally …have you seen that dozy advert comparing New Zealand’s ecco credentials to that of Sweden…..er NO! not when it comes to house building…they have houses there which despite absolutely freezing winters are heated by no more than the heat of the people inside, and the cooking etc…..and the occupants aren’t wrapped in blankets to keep warm while watching TV!

[ablears001]

I live in an apartment in London that the energy assessor said was one of the most energy efficient he'd ever seen. Despite the terrible winter we put the central heating on no more than a few times. I like being cosy.

I'm moving to Tauranga in October and the one aspect I'm really not looking to is my first winter in the rental. At least it'll be a known quantity of sort - I'll be renting from my dad! But I'm still not looking forward to it.

Once we're settled though we're going to build a straw bale house - a cheap and extremely energy efficient material. Even high performance with earthquakes :rolleyes:

[doowrehsij]

Wooly Cow.. LOL

ablears001 - As soon as you come over you'll hear of a thing called 'pink bats' (Wool insulation). Wrap yourself immediately in it and you may get similar to your London pad :)

[Derv]

I agree with Wooly Cow - NZ building code for insulation standards, even for new builds, is very low, but you can specify much better energy efficiency if you build your own house, rather than accept what a builder or a building company will do.

Ablears001 - I agree with you that strawbale houses are stunning and very energy efficient but they're not a cheap option here for a new build (mainly because strawbale is not common here - most NZ houses use the "wooden shed" concept of design :eek:) but I wish you luck in building with strawbale.

Pink Batts are not wool insulation, they're made of fibreglass. There are several alternatives which are made of wool, are far better for the environment and much longer-lasting than Pink Batts, but they are more expensive.

[Familyofmonkeys]

I agree with Wooly Cow - NZ building code for insulation standards, even for new builds, is very low, but you can specify much better energy efficiency if you build your own house, rather than accept what a builder or a building company will do. .

So true. Problem is even when you put maximum insulation that can fit in walls, new builds in NZ are still nowhere near as well insulated as most European or North American new builds, due the way houses are built here, which is different i.e. no cavity walls like in UK. Yes, you could specify building thicker walls to get even more insulation in, but this puts the cost of building up massively and is prohibitive to most people due to expense.

[benandclare]

On the subject of new builds, we're having Argon filled and Low E glass fitted

www.askthebuilder.com for our double glazing. This is costing us a shade over $3000 extra

[Wooly_Cow]

On the subject of new builds, we're having Argon filled and Low E glass fitted

www.askthebuilder.com for our double glazing. This is costing us a shade over $3000 extra

Thanks for that info. So OK it is more expesensive but only a percent or so on top of the price of the build I would suspect.

Doing a quick calcualtion I reckon the pay back time would be around 5-7 years (very very roughly of course) which is way under the lifespan of the windows themselves hence from a total life cost - worth doing!

[david1892]

Do you have window tinting in NZ. Came across this company through work the other day. http://netints.co.uk/reasons.aspx Cost would be significantly cheaper than changing your windows.

[Familyofmonkeys]

We just had a quote for 24mm Upvc windows for our proposed new build plan from NK Windows in Christchurch, for approx $22k (including gst) fully fitted (builder does flashings though) with extra $1800 +gst for Low-e, and extra $522 + gst for argon filled. We were gobsmacked when this quote came back at an almost identical price to the quote a couple of building companies got back for standard aluminium framed doubleglazing without the thermal break in the frame!

Anyone had any dealings with this company or know of anyone elses experience, as it seems a very good deal at the moment :)

[Derv]

We just had a quote for 24mm Upvc windows for our proposed new build plan from NK Windows in Christchurch, for approx $22k (including gst) fully fitted (builder does flashings though) with extra $1800 +gst for Low-e, and extra $522 + gst for argon filled. We were gobsmacked when this quote came back at an almost identical price to the quote a couple of building companies got back for standard aluminium framed doubleglazing without the thermal break in the frame!

Anyone had any dealings with this company or know of anyone elses experience, as it seems a very good deal at the moment :)

We've used them for our build. The windows are brilliant, NK are excellent to deal with - they did what they said they would when they said they would, and their service has always been very good. Can highly recommend them.

We went for low-e, argon-filled so that we got the most energy-efficient option available - there seems no point in going for anything else.

Don't even bother thinking about aluminium frames - just go for upvc, they are so much better, not only for energy efficiency but also for how well they're built and for their looks too.

[Super_BQ]

We live in a fairly large house and ALL the exterior windows and doors are by NK. Before I go into any detail, it's important to know that I was born and raised in Canada and am very use to the building standards there (ie. R2000).

In short, the NK windows suck compard to the PVC windows in Canada. Not only they are of poor performance, they also sell for a ripoff price. (But hey? What do ppl in NZ know?). Aluminum framed windows that I know of in Canada were only used in commercial properties. There's a lot of good going for timber framed windows if you want to be well insulated.

You can search the forum history for more detail on windows that i've posted in the past.

This morning in Chch the outside temperature was 2C which is pretty cold. I woke up with a bedroom temperature about 15C and a humidity level of about 70%. Both adjacent windows were fully condensated! So what would be the cause? too much humidity? too much temperature difference between the inside vs. outside temperature? Unfortunately, the problem isn't due to having double or single panes but rather, a combination of other factors. The main one would be the lack of "Mechanical Ventilation". Without it, you have no humidity control.

I also like to add that modern double pane windows in Canada today have the same 'U'/'R' value as the triple pane windows made 20 years ago. This is not due to just having argon being filled but also the type of coatings the windows have. You can bet NK don't specify HOW MUCH ARGON is used and what type of coatings the windows have. On a double pane window, this means having ALL 4 SIDES coated. But why stop at using Argon? How about Krypton? Then there's the casement window sash designs. I do know the NK windows are metal frame cased with just the PVC extrusion over it. While majority of PVC windows in Canada are ALL PVC constructed frame and sash, the exception are large bay windows which require the steel frame for support.

My aunt several years ago had double pane windows installed in her existing aluminium framed windows in her home. Today, all the argon gas has leaked out and now the windows condensate between the panes. I suspect the 2 different materials (aluminum & glass) have great expansion and contraction rates that all the argon gas leaks out over time. Though, i'm curious how these window makers gas their windows in NZ?

Then we have the issue of carbon footprint. Kudos to kiwis that conserve on energy use. The typical Canadian probably consumes 3 or 4 times the energy than an average person in NZ. But hey? How far do people have to go to make their homes comfortable? Do you build just to have shelter and keep dry? Or do you build to achieve the most comfort year round? My friend told me recently that "You guys in NZ might as well live under a tree". I guess what he was getting at is there's a point where being as humans, you can command a certain level of comfort. If this means using more energy then so be it, if you choose to be energy stingy attitude by "toughing it out over the winter", then you might as well live like animals and sleep outside under a tree.

BQ

[Familyofmonkeys]

We've used them for our build. The windows are brilliant, NK are excellent to deal with - they did what they said they would when they said they would, and their service has always been very good. Can highly recommend them.

We went for low-e, argon-filled so that we got the most energy-efficient option available - there seems no point in going for anything else.

Don't even bother thinking about aluminium frames - just go for upvc, they are so much better, not only for energy efficiency but also for how well they're built and for their looks too.

That's great to hear. We have absolutely no intention of going for aluminium frames......we were trying to figure out the cost of upgrading to upvc windows based on the allowance for aluminium frames that builders include in their 'standard specs' and expected we would have to pay quite a bit to upgrade. There are only a few companies supplying uPVC windows in NZ at the moment and it's difficult to find out about their repuation and decide which one to go with.....but so far all we've heard is positive feedback about NK windows :)




In short, the NK windows suck compard to the PVC windows in Canada. Not only they are of poor performance, they also sell for a ripoff price. (But hey? What do ppl in NZ know?).BQ

For those of us from Europe, the prices are in fact comparable and certainly not ripoff. It is interesting that you find the Kommerling windows that NK supply to be of poor performance compared to Canada, seeing as they are a major supplier there, and from what I can tell are well regarded as one of the high performance market leaders. http://www.koemmerling.com/ecomaXL/index.php?site=KOE_EN_markets_northamerica



There's a lot of good going for timber framed windows if you want to be well insulated.

Very true.......but they are very expensive, even compared to uPVC.



I also like to add that modern double pane windows in Canada today have the same 'U'/'R' value as the triple pane windows made 20 years ago. This is not due to just having argon being filled but also the type of coatings the windows have. You can bet NK don't specify HOW MUCH ARGON is used and what type of coatings the windows have. On a double pane window, this means having ALL 4 SIDES coated. But why stop at using Argon? How about Krypton? Then there's the casement window sash designs. I do know the NK windows are metal frame cased with just the PVC extrusion over it. While majority of PVC windows in Canada are ALL PVC constructed frame and sash, the exception are large bay windows which require the steel frame for support.

The same doesn't just apply to Canada, these improvements are global. With argon filled and a low-e coating, double glazed windows are generally considered comparable to triple glazed windows without these additions. And yes, NK will specify what types of coatings are used......hence the choice! In the NZ maritime climate (which doesn't have the exteme temperature variations of a continental climate), having all four sides of glass coated with a low-e coating would reduce the amount of solar gain into a house, where as having only the internal face coated will allow the UV radiation from the sun to penetrate the house and get stored as thermal mass, while reducing the amount of infra-red radiation escaping through the glass, retaining that heat inside. We've discussed this before..... http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17819&page=3 And yes, it would be lovely to afford krypton filled windows, but it is considerably more expensive than argon, for a less significant inprovement in efficiency......it's all about the cost benefit really. And here is a diagram of NK windows (Kommerling) framing for anyone who's interested which looked pretty much identical to what we were used to in Europe..... http://www.nkwindows.co.nz/intelligent_systems.htm

[JandM]

Thanks for taking the trouble to give all these details. I can't give you any more rep yet, but it IS appreciated.