[Pugwash]

Hi all,

umm..don't really know how to start this one but I am feeling a tad home-sick for old Blighty. I guess most of you who are still waiting to be accepted for residency in NZ must think I am mad - but be warned, it happens ! My memory has probably become very selective but all I can think about lately are the good times I had back home.

I have been in NZ for 17 months now and I must admit it has been a bit of a roller-coaster ride and of late I have been feeling a wee bit (OK quite a bit) home-sick.

It's hard to put my finger on what it is I miss - in fact when I think long and hard about it all there is probably not much at all (apart from a good curry and Strongbow cider) but I am feeling very unsettled.

Of course I miss friends. More than I miss family in fact, but that's just me. I miss other things too - but not to the point of 'craving'. Most of all I think I miss my past. No-one knows me here. I have no history, no tales to share, no-one to reminisce with. I am the 'new boy' wherever I go - and I'm 46 !!!

My son, who has just finished his schooling in the UK, will soon be joining us very soon (we have not seen him for a year) and as much as I can't wait for him to get here I am worried for him. He will be leaving all of his friends (and girlfriend) and the job situation is not good here for youngsters. He says that he doesn't want to go to Uni but to get a half-decent job down this way you have to have a degree.

My daughter is/was with us. She has recently moved into town (Wellington) where she works and she loves it here. But even she feels lonely and is finding things a lot tougher financially.

It is so different here.

My wife and I live in a nice house (with a large section and paddock at the back - complete with chooks and sheep) in a nice town. We now have reasonable jobs and I guess an above-average standard of living. I guess a lot of people back home are aiming to come to NZ for the very same thing.

But we are feeling blue.

I don't want to come across as being unappreciative - I am just saying how I feel. :no

[Raeven]

Hi, Pug,

I think it's good you're sharing this aspect of immigration with us. While many people comment generally and a little vaguely about homesickness, it's one of those things that's far too easy to discount and underestimate in making such a shift -- and as you've shared, it can have an extreme impact on one's feeling of well-being.

I'm very sorry you're suffering with it so severely. I'm sure you're already doing all the right things to get over it, which is mostly to stay busy, keep meeting new people, enjoying new situations and creating a new history in your changed surroundings. I think what we miss most is a sense of belonging, and it takes a very long while to recreate that in a foreign place. It's the main reason why people seek out their own 'kind' in their new location, and I don't see anything wrong with that. While it's important to make a place for yourself as a Kiwi, there's no shame in getting together with your fellow expats to share a sense of community. Maybe now would be a great time to have a little do with other expats in the Wellington area...? Perhaps a curry party? I bet you'd be surprised at the talents nearby! Just a thought. No doubt all the talk and reminiscing about England will remind you of why you left in the first place!

Wish I could offer more, but you have all my warm thoughts and hugs. It will get better, I know that. And when I'm plunged into the depths of homesickness despair myself down the road (we have to leave home before we can be homesick, I believe!!), would you please remind me of this??

All the best, Rae

[bbq]

Pug

Rae said it all more eloquently than I ever could.

I do sympathise, and hope you getthrough it

alex

[Diny]

I really feel for you, when we were first married we lived in the north of Australia for a few years. I was VERY homesick, to the point of making myself ill. However, I eventually got over it, but it does take time.

Eventually we came back to the UK due to husbands job and we've been here for 12 years now.

The fact that in a couple of months I will be leaving here again to live even further away than Darwin should be proof that the disease of homesickness - if treated correctly - is rarely fatal. However, I already cry myself to sleep some times thinking about how I'll miss my family and friends. There's just no winning.

Chip up old thing, you will find this forum very supportive I'm sure. I hope all turns out ok.

Diny

[Michelle and Richard]

We have lived in Nz before and after a year Richard was feeling very homesick but when we did come home( for other reasons) he quickly found that the things he thought he missed he didn't really miss at all. I'm sure what you are going through is perfectly normal and just a phase.

Michelle

[jesselyn]

hi pug,

sorry to hear you are feeling homesick... hugs...

jes :angel

[Phil&Shell]

Thanks Pug,

Its important for all of us on this journey to read posts like yours much as we might not want to.

I hope that you find your way forward, Im sure you will, anyone who can go through this immigation process is determined and strong enough do anything.

Good luck in finding your path.

[abbie & john]

Hi pug

Whenever the blues hit home remember such things as M25 traffic jams, train strikes, cold wet and blustery July days, being ripped off for petrol and beer and litter litter everywhere.

Laughter is the best medicine for anything - put your favourite comedy video on and make some popcorn!

Abbie

[veronica]

Hi, my story is pretty much the same as Diny's. We lived in Oz for 6 years and until we had the kids everything was great, once the kids were around and I stopped work I became very isolated at home then got homesick. Eventually we went back to the UK and it didn't take long for me to realise that it was isolation that was the problem not geography. By that time Pete had a great job in the UK so we stayed there, til now, but I know it can happen. Pugwash, If it helps at all feel free to phone us. will PM the no.

[MelissaLG]

Pugs,

Thanks so much for your post, we need to hear what you are going through. I expect I will go through the same thing as you are now...and when the time comes, knowing that someone has gone before me will really help me out I am sure. Thanks again, and keep your chin up!

Hugs,

Melissa

[Gran]

Hi Pug,
Yes homesickness can be very hard to bear. Sometimes you can even feel it physically in your stomach. My bout was in Australia. When you came out there as a ten pound pom, they made you stay 2 years or you had to pay them back, and strangely enough thats about how long it took me to get over it, they must have sussed that out. You never get over the memories of the place where you were brought up (mind you Bristol in the war and for many a year after was not the best!!!)
You may be able to get a quick but expensive fix by going back especially by going in the winter. When I think about England now I remember that you do not see the sun for weeks on end in the winter and everything is wet and muddy and you cant get out sometimes, I would get cabin fever locked up in a hermetically sealed house with double glazing.
All the best
Gran

[lindajax]

Hi Pugs,
:( sorry to here you're down at the mo.
Homesickness is one of my biggest worries - don't care if we've no cash or in crappy digs etc but really stressing about how i'll cope missing friends and family and routines etc.
But, Hey I'm hoping it will be a fair trade. :nice1
I do hope you fell more joyful soon and keep a stiff upper lip matey ;) ;)

[richsadams]

Hi All :cool

Wow! What timing! I was just e-mailing my best friend about what it's really like to live in a foreign country...about being "different" and all.

We've only been here since the first of June, but now and then we think about more than our friends and family we left behind...we think of "home" - which is NZ now, but won't feel like it for a while I'm sure.

Being away from a solid foundation is a bit more overwhelming than we expected. Like a lot of Americans we've moved all over the U.S. over the years and no matter where we ended up we got into the flow pretty quickly. I think that’s because certain things were constants…shopping for example or restaurants or malls or whatever. Maybe it was because of the people. There are marked differences between people from different U.S. states, but all-in-all, not that much when you get right down to it. The people of NZ have been very nice to us but they are different of course. People are people everywhere, but when you have different backgrounds and come from slightly different cultures it makes being from somewhere else stand out more.

This adventure has been kind of fun because we’ve not only met plenty of Kiwis, but a lot of people from Oz, England, Scotland and other countries…many more than I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet in the states. Of course we’ve met a lot of different people during our world travels too, but we were tourists at the time, and you never really get to know the local people until you’ve spent a good deal of time with them, broke bread, enjoyed some drink and good conversations.

Because of America’s “place” in the world and having exported so much of our culture (both good and awful), there is a certain expectation cast upon you as an American in a foreign land. Some people think all Americans are either like New Yorkers, Jerry Springer guests or Hollywood types. And we’re painfully aware that there are plenty of “ugly Americans” out there that have not found favour in other countries. I’m glad to say that we haven’t run into any hostility because we’re American…which I did expect given what America has done recently. But it still takes a while for people here to really get to know you with those kinds of preconceived notions in the way. We’ve done our best to assimilate and so far have been welcomed with open arms. :nice1

We’ve also been told (more than a few times) that it’s a bit difficult to get to know Kiwis, but when you do become friends, you are friends for life. So far that statement has been true as we already have a few Kiwi friends that we know will be part of our “family” forever. :D

All that said, there is still a certain level of oddness to being an outsider that I’ve never experienced. Years ago when I moved to Hawaii I ran into a bit of an "island culture shock" but it was still part of the United States. We still have yet to run into an American here. I find myself smiling in public but keeping my mouth shut more often than not. We can move about without ever causing a second glance because we look soooo much like all of the people here (except for the native Maori of course). The thing is that as soon as I say something out loud heads whirl to look my way. It’s very weird! Suddenly I’m different. Some people act as if it’s normal, others are very curious. Most Americans are on holiday, not living here, so it's assumed that we're tourists. At first it was kind of cool, like I was a celebrity or something, but now I just avoid talking unless spoken to and even then I keep my voice down. I know it comes with the territory, but I’m becoming more of an introvert. Perhaps that will change with time and a greater level of confidence in our surroundings

Another source of unexpected discomfort for us is our residency status. We are still waiting for our Permanent Residence Visas (PRV) to come through. The consultant is telling us it will probably happen sometime in November. :hopeso There is the remote possibility that we won’t be accepted for whatever reason. We’d then have to stay on Work Visas and one day leave and that isn’t our plan at all. So hopefully we’ll have a nice Christmas present from the NZIS and it will be one thing less to worry about! :yes

Thanks Pug for the opportunity to think about these things and hang in there...this too shall pass. Thanks to Rae and everyone for sharing their thoughts and feelings too. :clap It's all very timely for us. Thanks too for letting me share some personal feelings. Like a lot of us in the whirlwind of it all, I seem to get caught up in the mechanics of immigration...just the facts 'mam. And sometimes I forget the very real and important human aspect of it. We know what it’s like to wonder about living in a foreign land and Sandy are still more than thrilled that we were able to move to New Zealand. But be prepared, as much as you can anyway, as there are a LOT of emotions that go with the territory! Best of all though, (so far) the good ones far offset the others! ;)

Good luck to everyone and know that there are a LOT of people out here that are pulling for you! :mrgreen:

[paul arthur]

Just to share an experience. We had 175 points a job offer and between us would be able to purchase a $4000000 house cash and have a $95000 annual income.
But even with the above standard of living we would NEVER be able to afford to return to the UK and restore our current standard of living and nice house.
Thus we are not proceeding, health care in NZ is expensive and very poor when compared to UK standards, teenage children will find it hard to adjust as most kids have by this age their "groups and clans"and it is hard to intergerate.
LOOK at the prices and range of ahite goods, furniture, clothes and even food. And if you like a good curry forget it.
Work for young adults is very limited and they earn less then peanuts so even if it is all relative they will still never be able to purchase theur own house. I have read much talked to people in NZ and I can now only agree with the 30% of young people who leave NZ as soon as they finish their education, they leave to get a job, earn money and have a better way of life.
Why do people want to spend thousands of pounds and have much anixety to cut of all links with the UK, you will never be able to return or make frequent visits.
Sure NZ has nice countryside but no roads and after a while walking in rough terrain in the wet must lose its appeal.
I wish you all luck but unless you are living in a council house with no job or prospects in the UK you may have a chance to do the same in NZ without a reduced level of state benefits.
If you cant sleep at noght then NZ is the place to be as you can count sheep until the cows 9if they have them) come home.
good luck.

[veronica]

Hiya Paul, I couldn't work out from your posts if you have ever been to NZ or whether these opinions are just based on what you have read.

[Radders]

I think you're first paragraph speaks for itself Paul,
You are already talking about returning to the UK. Most people on this site are moving for good.

[Radders]

The healthcare is actually very good in NZ, certainly when compared with the NHS.
I quite like the idea of being able to register at a dentists, and then not have to book an appointment 6 months in advance.
Although I will miss the odd curry, I'm looking forward to fresh fish that has not been irradiated by waste water from our nuclear plants, or that might be the one that tips its species over the edge into extinction.
I will quite happily swop, a fantastic fridge/oven/3 peice suite/etc. for the oportunity to spend less time in the rat race.
As for the food, you don't know what you're missing!!
I can understand that kids could struggle, but then moving them from their home town to say London, so that you can earn more money, and have a better house/car/etc, would be just as problematic. It's a decision for the individual family to take.
I respect you're decision to keep with your way of life. I only hope your comments are tongue in cheek, as otherwise you're decision may be based on flawed logic.

[Diny]

Woah Paul

You sound on quite a downer. I can understand where you're coming from but maybe I don't agree with everything you say.

We are in a very similar financial situation as yourselves. We have a nice house in a nice location here in the UK and when we get to NZ we will be pulling in an income of approx 95k a year.

When the house sells, instead of taking every penny of our 'profits' with us to NZ, we're putting a chunk of it into a property here in the UK - on a 'buy to let' mortgage.

This is for 2 reasons: Firstly to enable us to still have a hold on the UK property ladder, then if things go belly up we'll have a safety net back in this country - some will say we're pesimistic (sp) others will say we're forward thinking - but it works fo us. Secondly - hoping/if all goes to plan in NZ and we decide that we have definately made the right decision by moving there, we will still have an investment, something to fall back on if we hit the rocks - something to leave to the boys if we don't.

We are also having a 'travel account' - holding a few funds which can be called upon should an emergency or a chronic case of homesickness arise.

I know that the above suggestions won't be possible for everybody - but from the figures you mention above, they would be OK for you.

However, from the look of things your mind is well and truly made up - which is great - there's a certain degree of comfort knowing that you are where you want to be. I just think that maybe your desire to go to NZ was never really 'burning' enough. The things that once tempted you now seem to make you very critical.

I think you have made a very sensible decision, you can't make such a life changing move without having alot more faith. I'm wondering the same thing as Veronica - are these opinions from experience or from what you've read?

To address a couple of points. NZ health care is expensive compared to the UK but where do you get the impression that it's very poor? We have first hand experience of what the health service has to offer, a few years ago our eldest son was taken ill while we were visiting the inlaws. As soon as he was seen by the doctor the wheels were put in motion and (all of us) received fantastic care and attention - they even contacted us once we returned to the UK to follow up on Fergus' recovery.

Teenage kids make friends better than just about anybody I'd say. They have to go out to school so are exposed to all associated social groups and events. If you have the kind of kid who finds it hard to integrate with his/her peers then I think that problem will follow them wherever they go.

Prices of white goods, furniture and food are all relative. With your quoted income I wouldn't predict you would have many problems. Why not ship your belongings over from the UK? A 20ft sole use container will only cost you in the region of 3200 pounds - and you'd end up with your quality belongings with you.

As for curry - get a cookbook and make one yourself - turn it into a social event - start up curry evenings - if nothing else the smell will get the neighbours talking.

Work for young adults is not as big a problem as you suggest. We have many friends in NZ who's 'children' are starting out on the employment ladder, we often get reports of how well they are doing and how they're enjoying having some financial freedom. Maybe it's because we're so use to the 'get rich quick' way of life in the UK that the prospect of starting on a lower wage and working your way up through the ranks is so off-putting to some.

Yeah - alot of youngsters leave NZ to travel around and work elsewhere. I think you'll find they refer to it as 'The Big O.E' (overseas experience). It's what us poms call a 'gap year'. I think you'll find that the vast majority of young Kiwi's doing their O.E are looking for abit of adventure, sightseeing and the chance to kick up their heels. Going overseas for a couple of years when your education has finished isn't something just the Kiwi's do ...... I was doing the exact same thing when I met my husband.

As for your suggestion that we'll all be cutting off our links with the UK and will never be able to return - I think you're letting your emotions get the better of you with that statement.

And what's that you say about there being no roads in NZ?

Like I say, I feel you have made the right decision, and I also think you have been very brave to actually stand up and admit that NZ is not for you, I admire you for doing so. However, I don't really think it's necessary to spout such waffle to justify your decisions.

I wish all the luck in the world for you and your family.

Diny

[Michelle and Richard]

Hi Paul.

I would be very interested to know if you have ever been here. Firstly we have been here before and returned home, but chose to return because despite the down sides we do believe that we can have a better overall standard of living.

We are both profesional people with good careers and have a sizeable income in the UK and yes it is decreased over here. I have worked in both health care systems and do not believe that the Uk is any better or worse than NZ and private healthcare is cheaper than the Uk. Not sure how you figure out that we dont have roads over here, there are limited motorways and what there is is fairly busy well very busy but as someone who has considerable(unfortunately) experience of the UK motorway system give me the open roads of NZ any day.


I cannot comment on children as we dont have them however my experience is that children over here are considerably better behaved, have more respect and overall have a good life. I do have friends who have come over here with teenage children and although its initially been difficult they have eventually settled. There are a large amounts of immigrants here so chances are that they will quickly meet others in similar positions.

Yes NZ's do leave they are country of travellers and many do take the big OE, most return.

The cost of some goods is high but as someone has pointed out why not ship stuff out. The flipside is that some stuff is considerably cheaper.

So eating out, no good currys you have obviously never been to Shahi cafe in Parnell, Little India in Wellington Auckland etc, far superior to everything in the UK and we lived near Bradford !

I am not a "life is wonderful here, everything is perfect" but I do think you are the opposite and perhaps you should make trip out here because you are not describing the place I know and now very proudly live in.

Michelle

[Carol]

Homesickness is a big big big problem for me........I feel like I'm in a permanent departure lounge (and while I'm there I'm on an indoor rollercoaster of emotions!!)

What I do to get over it is get online and read the UK newspapers.

It's enough to scare me back to reality and realise exactly why I have been here for 8 years and will never ever go back.

Carol

[markkellaway]

We've worked out our sums and really our disposable income won't be so different than it is in the UK, we'll have a bigger house (new, so not quite as cold as an older wood one) and yes a lower salary. We will, however, only have a small mortgage.

I'm struggling to understand why finances would be a problem at all on $95k with no mortgage, if I had the possibility of that income in NZ I'd be the happiest man on earth, I was happy at the prospect of $70k. I must be an underacheiver! :(

Different perspectives I suppose, it takes all sorts to make a world!

I wish you all the best here in the UK.

Cheers,

Mark. :D [/i]

[Jo_b]

I had a funny situation earlier this year when I went to Welly on a bit of a fact finding mission with a view to heading out there to live. I felt the pull in both directions - a funny longing to move here, missing home thing. Anyway, we decided to go for it and are hitting Wellington in November. We decided to keep our home here, and to deliberately tell everyone there was no set time limit - might just be for a year, even though I suspect it will be long-term, depending on what happens as parents get older .

Tips for homesickness: On the curry front, pick up some Asian Home Gourmet curry paste (tikka massala is really good and 'English'!). We discovered this in New World a few years back and now scour Indian shops in the UK for it! Make it up with a stack of Popadums and watch BBC World.

There is nothing wrong with missing home. Just try thinking about things you would miss about NZ if you were back here.

Hang in there.

[Hannah]

Hi Pug,
Can fully understand where you are coming from - I missed the UK when i was in NZ despite knowing i was only there for 6 months and then returning. Then i came back to UK and missed NZ. I think i'm one of those people that makes friends quickly and easily, and then will inevitably miss them when i or they move on! We came out to NZ for 6 months and have now been back in UK for 4 months and that was the best thing we could have done - we were able to come back and see the UK with fresh eyes and make a decision to return to NZ which we believe will be the right one. I love the UK, I have no real pressing reason to leave, I just know i love NZ that little bit more. I know we'll struggle financially, and I know there is parts of the UK that i'll miss when I leave (including friends of course) but i know my heart is still in NZ. I left it there the very first time i visited on holiday. Maybe a trip back for a holiday during a rainy November would do you the world of good!!! If you do, make sure you get down to Tescos on a Sunday afternoon - enough to drive you away kicking and screaming!
All the best Pug, it WILL get better.

[Avalon]

But even with the above standard of living we would NEVER be able to afford to return to the UK and restore our current standard of living and nice house.

Thus we are not proceeding, health care in NZ is expensive and very poor when compared to UK standards,

LOOK at the prices and range of ahite goods, furniture, clothes and even food. And if you like a good curry forget it.


Why do people want to spend thousands of pounds and have much anixety to cut of all links with the UK, you will never be able to return or make frequent visits.

Sure NZ has nice countryside but no roads and after a while walking in rough terrain in the wet must lose its appeal.

I wish you all luck but unless you are living in a council house with no job or prospects in the UK you may have a chance to do the same in NZ without a reduced level of state benefits.
.

Ok, well, I can see that you have made a decision that works for you - and thast all any of us need to do - and you dont have to justify this - but I Just to wanted to give my views on thes items if thast ok?


Could you afford to go back? Not sure of the numbers, but 95K with no mortgage gives you a pretty good life here. We can save large chunks of our wages on a 125k salary - and we pay a large mortgage (accounts for 36% of salary meaning a salary equivalent of 80k without the mortage (roughly speaking-ish)). Then we save another 25%, and live on the rest. And we dont live on beans on toast to do it!) Its all swings and roundabouts , and just because that works for me - obviosly doesnt mean it would be good for you or your family - but I wanted you to see what is possible. Whether the housing market here will outstrip the Uk - I cant say. But for the past few years it does seem to have.

Healthcare is not cheap in the UK. You pay part of your 11% NI for healthcare whether you use it or not. An d for that - in many cases - you cant see a doctor, or get timely treatment. Many people top that 11% up with prvate medical insurance so they can get treatment. And that is cheaper here. So far - our limited experence of healthcare in NZ has been excellent. Especillay the dentists :clap Im paying less for a dental checkup here which took 40 minutes to get it right and actuualy clean my teeth properly than I was for an NHS dentist to tell me I had some teeth in my mouth. There certainly are areas where UK is better than NZ for healthcare - Id be particularly concered with seriousl illness and cancer care.

I worry about the use of the word "Never". Patently people DO go back to the UK regularly. Ive managed 1 trip already, and reckon on another one in about 2-3 years. Diny is going back more often; and I have friends who have managed 2 trips in the last 18 months. Its not easy and it sure aint cheap - but people do it.

Good curry can be had at 2 places in Welly - Great India on Courtney and Curry Heaven in Petone. Other than those - Id have to aggree - awful stuff!

No roads???? Ok - so not so hot on the 4 lane motorway scene - but really - we dont need it here.

And finally - I dont come from a council house background. I left a lot behind in the UK - but Ive gained more by coming here. We are actually financially better off here - so even that can be accomplished - though its rare from what im seeing. But for each friend I left behind - I have a new one here, my family WILL be joininmg us - no matter how many hoops have to crawl through - and as a (kiwi) friend of mine says:

Its all good!

Your decision is yours alone - and good on you for making it - even if its not the same as mine. And best of luck for the future :cheers

[Lupin]

Is the date correct on Pug's post? If so, I do hope Pug feels better as it was two years ago....

[Avalon]

Oopps :D I just noticed it as a new post today - didnt even look at that

[felix]

Hey Puggy!!! You are not being unappreciative atall...you are just saying how you feel...good on yer!! Inspite of NZ being a great place IMO..people need to be aware of the emotional trauma the move can have on you and your family and the asssociated feelings that accompany the move. I love it here but miss certain stuff..I guess I will allways feel this way.... and I am the one who wanted to come here!!

We didn't leave a superb anything back in the UK......social life, real closeness with my family, career, area to live in, quality of life were all average, so for me to feel homesick is strange..especially as I was not fervent about GB either.

You are so right...it is very different here, you are a new kid on the block (like me), but we are lucky that from having known nobody we have quite a well developed social life within 18 months. I will always remember why I left the UK and be mindful that many of those who go back either return to NZ or wish they could. We have everything here that we never had in the UK, more time, less expenditure, space, surrounded by apparently happier people, a great crime free neighbourhood, a house we could never ever afford in GB etc, etc.

Some say it takes 5 years or more to feel totally settled..some never do, one imagines and they live with it. I guess if your draw for the Uk oversteps the desire to be here you will return..only you know what is the right move to make. But rest assured there are loads of us( I am sure) living and loving the NZ wat but also feeling homesick in different ways and at different intensities. Perchance a trip home will give you some focus? Best of luck mate..I feel for you..if you wanna PM me please do we can have a chat on the phone. Kind regards, Dom.

[incredible hulse]

Healthcare is not cheap in the UK. You pay part of your 11% NI for healthcare whether you use it or not.

Avalon - Not trying to be pedantic here, but I have seen this figure bandied about a lot and it's not strictly correct. Out of memory you pay 11% on I think 90-600 pounds of your weekly pay, and after that point it goes down to 1%. I think the UK taxman is still trying to claim that this is for state pension contributions also :roll Whilst agreeing that Healthcare is pretty good here, I think it can add up and turn out to be expensive. I personally write off the lack of NI contributions here as they are taken in other ways here in having to pay ACC, having no child benefit and no tax free allowance on earnings (I don't know what the score is with state pensions here ?). Having to pay 9 dollars for a 3 month old and a 3year old to see the quack for 5 mins is a bit of a rip off to be honest

[KerryS]

Avalon - Not trying to be pedantic here, but I have seen this figure bandied about a lot and it's not strictly correct. Out of memory you pay 11% on I think 90-600 pounds of your weekly pay, and after that point it goes down to 1%.


Well, using your figures, that equates to 66 pounds a week on a salary of 600pw. You would pay less than that for full healthcare coverage in dollars.

No matter what people say, you do pay far more for healthcare in the UK than you do in NZ. The user pays system seems to cost more because the money isn't deducted at source as it is with National Insurance Contributions.
And in NZ you can see a dr when needed, no waiting for a week to get an appointment, and many have opening hours that are convenient for those that have to work (early opening and late closing).

NZ does have state pension provision too by the way. Info is available on the WINZ website if you really need it.

[Avalon]

Avalon - Not trying to be pedantic here, but I have seen this figure bandied about a lot and it's not strictly correct. Out of memory you pay 11% on I think 90-600 pounds of your weekly pay, and after that point it goes down to 1%. I think the UK taxman is still trying to claim that this is for state pension contributions also :roll Whilst agreeing that Healthcare is pretty good here, I think it can add up and turn out to be expensive. I personally write off the lack of NI contributions here as they are taken in other ways here in having to pay ACC, having no child benefit and no tax free allowance on earnings (I don't know what the score is with state pensions here ?). Having to pay 9 dollars for a 3 month old and a 3year old to see the quack for 5 mins is a bit of a rip off to be honest

Pedantic is fine - im in no way a tax expert - in fact when it comes to money - I get most of it - but the moment you get on to tax issues - my brain tries to escape through my ears :)

the 11% is not just for NHS - it covers all forms of social security - including what is supposed to be your pension (but in fact doesnt even cover the current pension costs - it really wont pay towards your retirement). Thtsa why ive said its part of the 11% - cos I really havent a clue how much of it is for the NHS. Except to say the last 1% defiantly is - because I rememebr Mr Brown adding it on a few years ago.

Hubby explains it :

Maximum £180 a month. (? not quite sure if thast right now but thast what he paid)
Not paid on the tax free limit.
NI taken off the "before tax (gross)" salary at 11%.

I guess this may also come down to how much yo use medical services. I dont as a rule, so im better off on the "pay as you go " system, and not having to fork out so other people can spend a lifetime at the doctors (trust me - ive seen it!). I woudl also say $9 to get a qualified doctor to see your children is far from a rip off. But again - that just comes down to what you vaule and what you think things are worth. With this case - i Know that were paying tthrough the nose month after month to be "entitled" to see a doctor for "free" when we needed to. Only we couldnt half the time. Whereas now - I pay $18 IF i want to see the doctor. But bear in mind - i Pay $40 to see an osteopath for 30 minutes.

Does that make sense?

[incredible hulse]

Well, using your figures, that equates to 66 pounds a week on a salary of 600pw. You would pay less than that for full healthcare coverage in dollars.
No matter what people say, you do pay far more for healthcare in the UK than you do in NZ. The user pays system seems to cost more because the money isn't deducted at source as it is with National Insurance Contributions. The 66 pounds isn't just for healthcare though so I don't compare those figures directly. At the end of the day NI is just a tax like all the others. I compare UK Tax + NI v NZ tax + ACC (the basic stoppages on the pay packet !) and find that total all in (for me) are about 0.7% less in NZ. Out of that I have to pay for school and doctors I guess which I got for free in the UK. (I don't include other services as these are taken care of with rates, etc)

And in NZ you can see a dr when needed, no waiting for a week to get an appointment, and many have opening hours that are convenient for those that have to work (early opening and late closing). Agreed, very impressed so far with GP and also maternity services.

NZ does have state pension provision too by the way. Info is available on the WINZ website if you really need it. Cheers will take a look

[incredible hulse]

I guess this may also come down to how much yo use medical services. I dont as a rule, so im better off on the "pay as you go " system, and not having to fork out so other people can spend a lifetime at the doctors (trust me - ive seen it!). I woudl also say $9 to get a qualified doctor to see your children is far from a rip off. But again - that just comes down to what you vaule and what you think things are worth. With this case - i Know that were paying tthrough the nose month after month to be "entitled" to see a doctor for "free" when we needed to. Only we couldnt half the time. Whereas now - I pay $18 IF i want to see the doctor. But bear in mind - i Pay $40 to see an osteopath for 30 minutes.

Does that make sense? Certainly does ! I agree having been to the quacks 4 times in the last 12 years I'm not a big user so am better off, but I think kids should be free from all the other taxes that are paid; whilst 9 bucks isn't going to break the bank (although with sickly kids I guess it would add up ;) ) it is an additional expense that it pretty petty on their part (IMO). I read somewhere that this was free but it certainly hasn't been the case for us. That said I have to pay 45 bucks if I want to see the local doc here so maybe I'm being ripped off if it is only $18 by you :exit

[Moorf]

$18 to see a doctor? That's cheap - always paid between $45 - $50 in various medical centres around here.

Having the bits chopped off and stitched back up cost $150!

Having said that I don't begrudge the payments as the service is excellent and my doctor is fantastic.

[Avalon]

Ah - just to clarify - the $18 (I think) is because we are in an area where the surgery is part of a PHO. I would like to be able to explain what that is - but Im afraid I havent got a clue :o I guess it means its part funded from somewhere? I know not all surgeries run under this scheme - but if cost is an iissue (and as a Buget-aholic I can quite see the sense in this) then it may be worth looking to see if another surgery not too far away is a PHO one.

[Moorf]

Had a quick scan for PHO's Av - here's a site that explains it clearly. Looks like they're rolling it out to most of NZ eventually which is great as means lower medical costs for some people (http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-ba4b6fbe-5420-468e-90a4-0d6f1df95cae.aspx).

http://www.moh.govt.nz/ (http://tinyurl.com/yntnfd)



If you are aged 6 - 24 years old or 65 and over and enrolled with a PHO you are eligible to get:


reduced cost doctors fees
pay only $3 per prescription medicine (as long as the medicine is fully subsidised and as long as the prescription is from your usual PHO doctor).
If you are one of the one million New Zealanders belonging to an Access PHO (serving the populations that have the worst health :confused: ), you already receive these benefits, no matter what your age.


Wonder what the criteria is for a population that has worse health! :laugh

[scotia]

I would like to know if Pug ever did get over his homesickness! Where are you now Pug and how are you doing?

Scotia
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