[OxfordComma]

Hello everyone,

Is anyone able to tell me what kind of things a Brit would have to go though if I moved to NZ in terms of documentation and the like. Do I simply need a passport? Will I be fingerprinted or have my Iris scanned? That kind of thing.

Many thanks,

OC

[JandL]

You obviously need a passport :). If you are visiting you may require a visa before you visit but it depends on where you are coming from, brits do not need them. If you wish to work you need the relevant visa of which there are a number available, each requiring their own documentation.

As for fingerprints and iris scan someone who has visited recently could tell you, but they do change the requirements, first time I visited US was just a picture, next time was with fingerprints as well, never had an iris scan from any country. A question for you :) why would that matter? Someone trying to move to NZ has many many hoops to jump through first, what happens at the airport is a loooong way down the road :).

[lindreth]

I'm just posting to say welcome to the forum! (and I have to add.... "who gives a f about an oxford comma?" :) )song...]

[JandM]

Hello, and welcome to the forum. :)

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/live/ That's a link to the NZ Immigration Service site, which is the starting point for the regulations on going to the country on ANY basis, as you'll see from the tabs at the top of the screen. It isn't clear from your post what reason you have for moving there, and the formalities are different in different cases.

The fingerprints/iris check is so far a US thing, inflicted even on people who are only in transit at an airport, but it's possible to take other routes to NZ which don't go via the States. Maybe (gloomily) all this bio-documentation will spread, however - they're talking about making it part of UK passports shortly.

[OxfordComma]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your responses so far. I should clarify some things for you. I'm looking to leave the UK because I don't like the way things are turning out politically; I feel that the state here is becoming unbearably intrusive, with things like the proposed ID card scheme and national information database taking a real chunk out of our basic freedoms.

New Zealand, which seems to me to have adopted some of Britain's best features - an NHS for example - is one country I'm looking at as a new place to live with my girlfriend. But what is crucial to me is to find out whether the country has any of the awful policies in place, as well as the wider attitudes, which see liberties as unimportant, or in fact, inconvenient.

So, I'd like to know about any ID card schemes, or requirements that NZ has to provide information like fingerprints or iris scans or anything of the sort. Would I be required to submit such information (which I consider completely unacceptable) If my partner and I made the move?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[BkyMonster]

You need to provide fingerprints for a police check (from countries you resided in in the past 10 years for 12 or more months) as part of the immigration character check, but none of the other stuff.

NZ is a far more libertarian country than the US, but I've never been to the UK so can't help you with that comparison.

[dharder]

Surely emigrating somewhere and applying for a visa is one of the most intrusive processes you can go through? You need to tell them everything about yourself, inlcuding medical information, they'll weigh you, measure you, have a number of passport photos of you, will check on your edcuation, family, etc.

If you are worried about people knowing too much about you, then I'd say don't emigrate (anywhere, really).

The fingerprinting for passports is something that is coming/is already in place in European passports, and I'm sure it is only a matter of time until NZ does it, too, so once your current one runs out, you might have to apply for one and be fingerprinted emigration or not.

Daniela

[Ana&Steve]

I get the impression that NZ doesn't yet have the identity theft problem that say, the US does. IRD#s aren't attached to your entire life the way US social security #s are.

[YouMeAndThree]

You need to provide fingerprints for a police check (from countries you resided in in the past 10 years for 12 or more months) as part of the immigration character check, but none of the other stuff.

NZ is a far more libertarian country than the US, but I've never been to the UK so can't help you with that comparison.

If you are getting a UK police check you do not need to provide fingerprints.

[JandL]

I never really understand the issues with ID, for me I don't care that the government have my details. I pay them 30% of my money every month, they pay me back with health care and more excuses for me to pay them more tax. If they have my fingerprints, that means that they can prove I am not linked to crimes. If they have my photo they can prove who I am, hell, its on my driving license already, and my passport, and pasted all over the internet :). I can understand a few situations where ones identity may wish to be hidden, ie ex criminal being released, or victim being relocated. As long as they are handled correctly the other 99.99% of the population doesn't have much to fear, in my opinion.

[KatieBen]

In order to *move* to NZ from UK (i.e. applying for relevant visas) you will have to submit a vast amount of personal information which you may consider intrusive. Identity documentation, police certificate check, medical, proof of relationship if partner included on application (shared finances/bank statements etc, marriage certificates, birth certificates of children etc)... probably a lot more which I've forgotten as the hassles of submitting the ITA thankfully fade from my mind.

Once *living* in NZ I believe the police state atmosphere which is currently pervading a lot of the UK does not exist. At least, I didn't see a single CCTV camera while I was there outside of the larger international airports. Nobody came up to me to tell me how to raise my children (although several people approached me with suggestions of good places to visit and one lovely lady introduced my then 18 month old son to the joys of a hot Fluffie with marshmallows).

I think we are emigrating in part for the reasons you are wishing to leave the UK - having visited NZ, I think we will find a lot more space to breathe there.

[OxfordComma]

It is usually the case that those people who are most comfortable are the most complacent with their freedoms, and a couple of the comments here are evidence of this fact. To argue that being fingerprinted is somehow a useful tool, helping us NOT to be arrested is naive, bordering on stupid. The state, and the police, exist to serve the people and not the other way round. People shouldn't have to submit anything to avoid being arrested. Police should put up information to make an arrest - evidence perhaps?

There is also a huge difference between general information (employment history, pictures, general health) and the most personal information of all (fingerprints and iris scans) which are the essence of a human being. Of course, I have no issue with providing the first lot of information. But no government, ever, has any business holding that kind of information in its citizens. This is my opinion anyway, and I never asked people to agree with it, I'm just after information to make my decisions.

So, to return to the point, does anyone have experience of making the move from the UK to NZ? YouMeAndThree , you seem to have done what I'm thinking of doing - do you have any more detail about the process you went through?

Thanks for your responses (even the less constructive ones)!

[JandL]

It is usually the case that those people who are most comfortable are the most complacent with their freedoms, and a couple of the comments here are evidence of this fact. To argue that being fingerprinted is somehow a useful tool, helping us NOT to be arrested is naive, bordering on stupid.


So using dental records to identify a person is not a useful piece of technology, fingerprints is an alternative as is DNA. I was not critising your opinion, I just said I did not understand it, my wife does not agree with ID cards and the like either. Possibly I am naive, I trust first until proven otherwise. You obviously take anything said against you as a personal attack, good luck with that.

[OxfordComma]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but yours was one of two comments that made no attempt to answer my enquiry. You just took this as an opportunity to air your views, and now you are outraged that I responded to them. I don't think I'm the one being over-sensitive here.

[James 1077]

It is usually the case that those people who are most comfortable are the most complacent with their freedoms, and a couple of the comments here are evidence of this fact. To argue that being fingerprinted is somehow a useful tool, helping us NOT to be arrested is naive, bordering on stupid. The state, and the police, exist to serve the people and not the other way round. People shouldn't have to submit anything to avoid being arrested. Police should put up information to make an arrest - evidence perhaps?

There is also a huge difference between general information (employment history, pictures, general health) and the most personal information of all (fingerprints and iris scans) which are the essence of a human being. Of course, I have no issue with providing the first lot of information. But no government, ever, has any business holding that kind of information in its citizens. This is my opinion anyway, and I never asked people to agree with it, I'm just after information to make my decisions.

So, to return to the point, does anyone have experience of making the move from the UK to NZ? YouMeAndThree , you seem to have done what I'm thinking of doing - do you have any more detail about the process you went through?

Thanks for your responses (even the less constructive ones)!

Firstly I very much agree with you regarding the loss of personal liberties and the "database society" that UK is becoming. It is one of the (admittedly many) reasons that I decided to leave the UK.

Having said all that to move to New Zealand (or, in fact, just about anywhere) you do need to provide a huge amount of info to NZ immigration. There are, however, valid reasons that they need this data.

They will require you to have a medical and will get the records of this (the reason being that they won't let you move here if you are likely to become a drain on the health system).

They will require proof of your relationship status if you are moving over with your wife / partner (the reason is to stop people from pretending to be in a relationship in order to bypass the immigration rules).

They will require proof of your qualifications and work experience (in order to decide if you are going to be employable and whether the country has a need for your skills that can't be filled by people already living here).

There are lots of other things that they need which you can pick up from the Immigration NZ website linked to earlier in this thread.

With respect to society in New Zealand it is nowhere near as bad as the UK in terms of loss of personal freedoms. The government is nowhere near as "nannying" either (although Kiwis complain that it is getting worse in that respect). CCTV isn't as widespread and is normally done for security rather than monitoring (ie shops have some CCTV cameras for crime prevention / detection). There isn't an illegal DNA database which everyone who has been arrested is on (although there was discussion about setting one up but I doubt that this will happen).

Currently no fingerprint / iris / dna details are required for New Zealand passports although the data required on passports is pretty much driven by the USA so it is highly conceivable that this will become a requirement at some point in the future (as it may do everywhere else in the world).

In general I find New Zealand a surprisingly liberal place government-wise but it isn't perfect and there is definitely scope for improvement!

[bobo]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but yours was one of two comments that made no attempt to answer my enquiry. You just took this as an opportunity to air your views, and now you are outraged that I responded to them. I don't think I'm the one being over-sensitive here.

To be fair you brought the whole liberties subject up when you mentioned your reasons for leaving the UK in post 5. Then when people voice a different opinion you put them down as not constructive.

If you did not think it was relevant then why bring it up in the first place?

Good way to get help.

[JandL]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but yours was one of two comments that made no attempt to answer my enquiry.

I am not outraged, being called naive, bordering on stupid is not exactly flattering. I answered as I could in the very first reply to your post. I find a read of http://www.nzherald.co.nz/ gives you some info about the country.

[JandL]

If you did not think it was relevant then why bring it up in the first place?....

Actually, it was me asking why the iris/fingerprints scans were so important at this stage that started it all off :exit.

[bobo]

Actually, it was me asking why the iris/fingerprints scans were so important at this stage that started it all off :exit.

I would have said that post #12 was in reply to your post #10. And he/she had already mentioned the liberties issues in post #5.

I have re-read that am even I am confused.

Anyway still not the best way to ask for help. I would have waited till I was in NZ before calling you stupid.:D

[JandL]

Alas, awaiting a house sale and I will be gone!

[veronica]

tut tut children....play nice

I would just like to say that its a darn sight easier for the NZ govt to keep track of 4 million people than it is for the UK - USA - etc to keep track of their x millions of populations. the Govt here perhaps because of the numbers involved doesn't need the same measures and probably can't afford them either at present. As I understand it all passports will have the iris scan etc soon and anyone going to/even thru the states will have the fingerprint and iris scan as a matter of course. So if thats important to you go another way.

I have often noticed that those who have these views often reverse them when there is a crime committed against them and they want the b*****s caught, not saying this is your case of course as I know nothing of you or your situation.

[Jock_Tamson]

I got on an Air New Zealand domestic flight the other week without even going through an X-Ray machine - you wouldn't see that happening back in dear old Blighty...