Graham&Denise
1st April 2005, 02:44 AM
We are surprised at the number of posts from the UK.
Any particular reasons for wanting to move on :uhoh
Any particular reasons for wanting to move on :uhoh
Pages :
[1]
2
jubjub
1st April 2005, 03:06 AM
Come to Scotland on a cold wet day in the city, and you will see why, or visit one of the rough estates at night, if you dare!
We want what most people are sure they will find in NZ clean air, nice weather (mostly), better quality of life, and a step off the rat race (if we can afford to when we get there!). Also although the scenery seems very scottish at a glance, you at least get the weather down there to go out and appreciate it.
We want what most people are sure they will find in NZ clean air, nice weather (mostly), better quality of life, and a step off the rat race (if we can afford to when we get there!). Also although the scenery seems very scottish at a glance, you at least get the weather down there to go out and appreciate it.
Danpoll
1st April 2005, 03:28 AM
Graham and Denise,
you havn't been to the uk have you?
Try it its not as bad as evreyone says.
Dan
you havn't been to the uk have you?
Try it its not as bad as evreyone says.
Dan
Milliemoo
1st April 2005, 04:53 AM
If I could afford a nice detached house in Edinburgh ( 2 bedroom bungalows go for £300k + where we live!), we had nice weather, and had lots of lovely beaches on our doorstep, we'd stay :laugh
But seriously, it's more to do with pace and quality of lifestyle. Even if we could afford our dream house in Edinburgh we would still leave. But if we were millionaires, we'd have a home in each place :mrgreen:
Milliemoo :nice1
But seriously, it's more to do with pace and quality of lifestyle. Even if we could afford our dream house in Edinburgh we would still leave. But if we were millionaires, we'd have a home in each place :mrgreen:
Milliemoo :nice1
leslie
1st April 2005, 04:53 AM
yes j&d
everyone should do a year in london - it makes you appreciate everywhere else. its close to near death experience yet only your spirit is crushed... bargain.
everyone should do a year in london - it makes you appreciate everywhere else. its close to near death experience yet only your spirit is crushed... bargain.
adamsat
1st April 2005, 07:24 AM
The UK has a lot going for it, if your lucky, wages and standard and living are good, there is still some countryside left, and the weather is bearable for at least 6 months every year.
Personally we're looking for a simpler lifestyle in a place where the culture shock won't be too great.
Personally we're looking for a simpler lifestyle in a place where the culture shock won't be too great.
veronica
1st April 2005, 07:51 AM
comparative to the no. of people who live in the UK there is a miniscule proportion on this site. As its an English speaking site about going to an English speaking nation its not surprising really. Anyone done any searches about NZ sites in other languages.
Billy
1st April 2005, 08:02 AM
The UK is an incredibly prosperous country, relative to most. Poverty is still endemic, but getting better. Sweden is the example of capitalism working for the whole society, not just those able to take advantage of it. Unemployment is half that of France.
Why leave?
For me, it is too materialistic, too divisive, too antagonistic. Oh, and being in the wettest part of the country, too wet!
I dont mind the rain.
This is a great country to live in, but, well, ...................
Why leave?
For me, it is too materialistic, too divisive, too antagonistic. Oh, and being in the wettest part of the country, too wet!
I dont mind the rain.
This is a great country to live in, but, well, ...................
Hannah
1st April 2005, 08:53 AM
For me it's about wanting to try something different. We moved from London to Northants 7 years ago and never regretted it. It's pretty safe where we live - our 9 year old son goes out on his own to play with friends at the park etc. and i don't worry. We're in a pleasant town, I have a job I love, our financial situation is ok - there's nothing to run from here. But I just feel i want to do something different. I would like my children to embrace change (as I do) rather than to feel they have to always do the same thing in the same place all their life because it's what they know. I know some parts of the country are grim - but i guess all countries have their dodgy areas, and the media constantly reminds us of how "bad" it is (while showing lots of "move abroad" and "holiday home" and "get away to the country " type programmes which seem to be etched on the nation's psyche now - has anyone read a TV mag to see what's on tv each morning!!). If we aren't being co-erced into moving (to keep the housing market stimulated) we are being convinced we want to sell things from our attic at a car boot sale (to fund our impending moves). I personally know 3 friends who moved to Spain on the back of "No going Back"... I must be the resistant type - I've not yet been convinced to have a car boot sale. :laugh
A friend said something to me about a year ago when I was contemplating NZ - "nowhere has to be for ever". She's so right - I may go to NZ and come back, I may stay there, I may move on to another country. Whatever. I'll take life as it comes. I get that feel from many on the forum - they aren't running away they are just trying something new.
"Life isn't a dress rehearsal"
Hannah
A friend said something to me about a year ago when I was contemplating NZ - "nowhere has to be for ever". She's so right - I may go to NZ and come back, I may stay there, I may move on to another country. Whatever. I'll take life as it comes. I get that feel from many on the forum - they aren't running away they are just trying something new.
"Life isn't a dress rehearsal"
Hannah
Moorf
1st April 2005, 09:23 AM
A friend said something to me about a year ago when I was contemplating NZ - "nowhere has to be for ever". She's so right - I may go to NZ and come back, I may stay there, I may move on to another country. Whatever. I'll take life as it comes. I get that feel from many on the forum - they aren't running away they are just trying something new.
Couldn't agree more with this... it's totally our attitude - we didn't know that this time last year we'd be here and working and with PR etc - and who knows what next year might hold :nice1
Moorf & Woz - trying to take everyday as it comes! :yes
Couldn't agree more with this... it's totally our attitude - we didn't know that this time last year we'd be here and working and with PR etc - and who knows what next year might hold :nice1
Moorf & Woz - trying to take everyday as it comes! :yes
A & M
1st April 2005, 09:36 AM
Exactly! We too just fancied a change, a break in the routine, a look at somewhere else. It has been fantastic so far for our children to realise that you can move somewhere else and make friends, learn about other places and cultures.
We weren't running away from anything, we also had a great life in Dorset, and will probably return when our year is up, but we will all have learnt a lot.
I would hate to get older and then regret not "having a go".
Mandy
We weren't running away from anything, we also had a great life in Dorset, and will probably return when our year is up, but we will all have learnt a lot.
I would hate to get older and then regret not "having a go".
Mandy
Diny
1st April 2005, 10:49 AM
I usually get shot down in flames when I pledge my love of England. I'm fully aware that the UK has some pretty dire places - like EVERY country in the world. We have a comfortable life here, live in a rural location, kids attend a very good village school - in fact, the UK has been very good to us. It's not that we don't want to live in England, it's just that we do want to live in New Zealand. Also, having a Kiwi spouse goes a long way towards making the move.
I agree with the above comments - apart from:
you at least get the weather down there to go out and appreciate it.
I'm longing to have my theory regarding NZ weather blown to bits but I can assure everybody that the 'good weather' myth played no part in our decision to move :no
I agree with the above comments - apart from:
you at least get the weather down there to go out and appreciate it.
I'm longing to have my theory regarding NZ weather blown to bits but I can assure everybody that the 'good weather' myth played no part in our decision to move :no
dave k
1st April 2005, 11:02 AM
Many reasons- being priced way out of the housing market for one. I came to NZ from York where you can just about afford a crappy 2 up 2 down terraced house for about the 150K mark.
The only people who can afford to live in York in nice houses now are all from London - it's a 2 hour commute by train...which is probably quicker than if you lived in Guildford or somewhere...anyway, don't get me started on that one. :uhoh
I certainly don't miss having to walk home at night through town as marauding gangs of fat, shaven-headed men ( who always seem to be in blue, short-sleeved shirts no matter what the season) looking for beer & trouble stomp around like little, private armies (Or their drunken female counterparts...*.urgh*). I don't miss stepping through pools of blood outside pubs & nightclubs, or waking in the middle of the night to the sound of someone torching a car right outside our house. (I'm not making this up btw)
I could go on and on here - and this is York!! Not Moss Side or Tower Hamlets.
Yeah, the UK isn't all like this & it has some wonderful places - & I'm strangely proud to still be a British citizen - but NZ is better for me at the moment.
The only people who can afford to live in York in nice houses now are all from London - it's a 2 hour commute by train...which is probably quicker than if you lived in Guildford or somewhere...anyway, don't get me started on that one. :uhoh
I certainly don't miss having to walk home at night through town as marauding gangs of fat, shaven-headed men ( who always seem to be in blue, short-sleeved shirts no matter what the season) looking for beer & trouble stomp around like little, private armies (Or their drunken female counterparts...*.urgh*). I don't miss stepping through pools of blood outside pubs & nightclubs, or waking in the middle of the night to the sound of someone torching a car right outside our house. (I'm not making this up btw)
I could go on and on here - and this is York!! Not Moss Side or Tower Hamlets.
Yeah, the UK isn't all like this & it has some wonderful places - & I'm strangely proud to still be a British citizen - but NZ is better for me at the moment.
Hannah
1st April 2005, 11:04 AM
Is the weather much different generally?
We had a pretty mild winter when we visited Aug 2003 but i got the impression that this was a freak year?
We had a pretty mild winter when we visited Aug 2003 but i got the impression that this was a freak year?
dave k
1st April 2005, 11:19 AM
Well, everyone in Wellington tells me what a bad summer it's been this year....
And I'm thinking "wow - if this is bad, I can't wait to see a good one!"
Again - it will depend entirely where you are in NZ. There's a big difference between the weather in Bluff and the weather in the Bay Of Islands. But the same can be said of UK too.
I just like the fact that it's been pretty warm & sunny generally since I arrived in October. Coming from the North of England, that's a pretty good strike rate I reckon...since we usually only get about 2 weeks of proper Summer weather & the rest of the year it's just varying shades of grey.
And I'm thinking "wow - if this is bad, I can't wait to see a good one!"
Again - it will depend entirely where you are in NZ. There's a big difference between the weather in Bluff and the weather in the Bay Of Islands. But the same can be said of UK too.
I just like the fact that it's been pretty warm & sunny generally since I arrived in October. Coming from the North of England, that's a pretty good strike rate I reckon...since we usually only get about 2 weeks of proper Summer weather & the rest of the year it's just varying shades of grey.
leslie
1st April 2005, 02:01 PM
wow. so much romanticism. there is a gov't funded blockbuster here...
wonder how new immigs to uk, scandics for example, find moving to uk. an old friend of mine survived one year in st andrews, and she grew up in finland so was used to bad weather etc. there's a forum i'd like to read. guess it all comes down to standards - mine are pretty high. even in the 'pretty' spots you dont have to scratch too deep below the surface to find the shameful. but then maybe shame is an old-fashioned concept??? lets say embarassing. whaats that famous british expression - 'could do better'?
please dont take uk standards to nz.
dont mind me... i'm grumpier than usual as we paid bt bill on 26/1 and bt turned off our phone without notice saying we hadn't paid. even with the paper trail via bank etc they have done nothing to rectify. the onus is on us to reinstate the account!!! but bt is probably a business success story to most of you! i gave up mobile 2 months ago and now find myself with masses to do and no phone. hub also under huge stress at the mo. incredibly bad timing. they expect me to call them to help them - without a phone. they are to call me but with computerised system they cannot ring back - if you aren't sitting by phone all day you are outta luck. at this rate it will be weeks.
while we are moving to nz for all it offers us and we nz, i'd hate to see british immigs bringing romanticised british standards with them. historically british 'invasion' has been really bad news for the other guy - i would be sad to see new zealanders lose everything they have struggled for in the face of high migration. i would like to live somewhere where the british contribution is something to be proud of. less whinging a good start.
wonder how new immigs to uk, scandics for example, find moving to uk. an old friend of mine survived one year in st andrews, and she grew up in finland so was used to bad weather etc. there's a forum i'd like to read. guess it all comes down to standards - mine are pretty high. even in the 'pretty' spots you dont have to scratch too deep below the surface to find the shameful. but then maybe shame is an old-fashioned concept??? lets say embarassing. whaats that famous british expression - 'could do better'?
please dont take uk standards to nz.
dont mind me... i'm grumpier than usual as we paid bt bill on 26/1 and bt turned off our phone without notice saying we hadn't paid. even with the paper trail via bank etc they have done nothing to rectify. the onus is on us to reinstate the account!!! but bt is probably a business success story to most of you! i gave up mobile 2 months ago and now find myself with masses to do and no phone. hub also under huge stress at the mo. incredibly bad timing. they expect me to call them to help them - without a phone. they are to call me but with computerised system they cannot ring back - if you aren't sitting by phone all day you are outta luck. at this rate it will be weeks.
while we are moving to nz for all it offers us and we nz, i'd hate to see british immigs bringing romanticised british standards with them. historically british 'invasion' has been really bad news for the other guy - i would be sad to see new zealanders lose everything they have struggled for in the face of high migration. i would like to live somewhere where the british contribution is something to be proud of. less whinging a good start.
dave k
1st April 2005, 02:16 PM
Leslie.....I don't understand your post :?
tigerlily
1st April 2005, 03:04 PM
For all of the things I keep hearing on this board in the past weeks that the UK does better than NZ, I've started to seriously consider moving there instead! I know that its more dangerous and housing in more expensive, but aren't the salaries much better too? Atleast that is what I have seemed to see in the posts of late.
I'm having a hard time figuring out if I will find NZ to be outrageously expensive, since I'm coming with only my American dollars, not the pound. If you are used to the buying power of the pound and are finding the Kiwi goods to be expensive, I think I shall be living out of my car when I get there because I won't be able to afford a thing!
Also daydreaming about moving to the continent. That way when people make fun of me, I won't be able to understand what they are saying.
I'm having a hard time figuring out if I will find NZ to be outrageously expensive, since I'm coming with only my American dollars, not the pound. If you are used to the buying power of the pound and are finding the Kiwi goods to be expensive, I think I shall be living out of my car when I get there because I won't be able to afford a thing!
Also daydreaming about moving to the continent. That way when people make fun of me, I won't be able to understand what they are saying.
veronica
1st April 2005, 04:47 PM
Tigerlily the pound exchange isn't crash hot either at the moment.
Leslie, I have to agree with Diny on this one, there are lots of aspects of England that I love. Every county has its good side and bad side and its worth looking for the UK's good side, England is not just London. Honestly, NZ and NZers are not very different to England in terms of way of living, politics and beauracracy, so you aren't going to find things vastly different here, just on a smaller scale with better scenery.
Leslie, I have to agree with Diny on this one, there are lots of aspects of England that I love. Every county has its good side and bad side and its worth looking for the UK's good side, England is not just London. Honestly, NZ and NZers are not very different to England in terms of way of living, politics and beauracracy, so you aren't going to find things vastly different here, just on a smaller scale with better scenery.
Diny
1st April 2005, 04:57 PM
England is not just London. Honestly, NZ and NZers are not very different to England in terms of way of living, politics and beauracracy, so you aren't going to find things vastly different here
Spot on Veronica :nice1
please dont take uk standards to nz.
less whinging a good start
Only pulling your leg here but ....... why do the words 'pot and kettle' spring to mind ;)
Diny
Spot on Veronica :nice1
please dont take uk standards to nz.
less whinging a good start
Only pulling your leg here but ....... why do the words 'pot and kettle' spring to mind ;)
Diny
wilson182
1st April 2005, 05:01 PM
Our experience of the UK is working hard and still being broke. Living in a claustrophobic city, but not having the means to move. We have made a fairly good profit on our house, but in the UK that means nothing. Here we rent a four bed house with garage and front and back garden, a mere pipe dream in the UK. Being penalised for working, and watching people on benefits having a good time (not to mention loads of children for us to pay for). Dont mean to sound bitter, but this is how I felt in England.
Another thing that appealed about moving to NZ, a country the same size as England, but with much less people.
Another thing that appealed about moving to NZ, a country the same size as England, but with much less people.
Danpoll
1st April 2005, 06:15 PM
Historically brits have pretty much gone evreywhere, NZ was ours untill 1909 and is not likely to become a republic soon. As the British consulare recently said NZ is now more British than Britain. New Zealand seems to tick the right boxes, climate,clean,population,no predatory animals,a reasonably liberal political system, safer for children, etc. We all yearn and reminisce that things were better when we were young and NZ could deliver that.
For example to the back of me is 45 concrete poured naval quaters fom the 60's that have been tarted up and going for 104 for a three bed. There are people in tents camping out so they can buy a cheap house, to me thats disgusting and a symbol of what a dire state this country has fllen into.
Dan
For example to the back of me is 45 concrete poured naval quaters fom the 60's that have been tarted up and going for 104 for a three bed. There are people in tents camping out so they can buy a cheap house, to me thats disgusting and a symbol of what a dire state this country has fllen into.
Dan
Diny
1st April 2005, 06:33 PM
I would never disagree with the comments about the state of some parts of the UK. The yob culture, violence, crime, dole bludging and the general attitude of 'sit on your jacksy and let the state provide' that seems to be so popular simply can't be ignored. It's sad, it's sick and it's wrong - and modern day government are just too tied up with what's pc and what isn't to be able to see the wood for the trees.
But ........ it's very easy to allow the bad to totally envelop the good. To believe that pools of blood and vomit outside nightclubs, gangs of intimidating yobs lurking on street corners and 3 hour traffic jams are the norm everywhere is abit off the mark. Obviously we all judge a location by our own personal experiences. I'm not a city dweller or a city lover but I have been in the past and I'm fully aware of what goes on. Living in an inner city environment would 'do my head in'. The UK, especially England, is NOT perfect and it's not going to get any better. But I think that it does get some unfair press. I think it's only fair to draw attention to the rural communities. Us 'wooliebacks' still have our fair share of negatives, moans and gripes - they just take on a different form - I guess we're lucky that 3 hour commutes and rowdy mobs don't effect us. What I'm trying to say is that there's no doubt that the UK is on a decline with no real solution in sight (not while President Blair rules the roost anyway), but let's just remember that there's still those green bits between the concrete bits.
But when all is said and done, who can blame us for leaving good ol' Blighty and heading off to a better existance all round in places like these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL060.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL007.jpg
But ........ it's very easy to allow the bad to totally envelop the good. To believe that pools of blood and vomit outside nightclubs, gangs of intimidating yobs lurking on street corners and 3 hour traffic jams are the norm everywhere is abit off the mark. Obviously we all judge a location by our own personal experiences. I'm not a city dweller or a city lover but I have been in the past and I'm fully aware of what goes on. Living in an inner city environment would 'do my head in'. The UK, especially England, is NOT perfect and it's not going to get any better. But I think that it does get some unfair press. I think it's only fair to draw attention to the rural communities. Us 'wooliebacks' still have our fair share of negatives, moans and gripes - they just take on a different form - I guess we're lucky that 3 hour commutes and rowdy mobs don't effect us. What I'm trying to say is that there's no doubt that the UK is on a decline with no real solution in sight (not while President Blair rules the roost anyway), but let's just remember that there's still those green bits between the concrete bits.
But when all is said and done, who can blame us for leaving good ol' Blighty and heading off to a better existance all round in places like these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL060.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/Diny12/WATERFALL007.jpg
Diny
1st April 2005, 06:38 PM
Oh by the way, the above pictures were taken a few months back just a few minutes drive from our house ...... here in the UK.
:nice1
:nice1
Bubbles
1st April 2005, 06:39 PM
But ........ it's very easy to allow the bad to totally envelop the good. To believe that pools of blood and vomit outside nightclubs, gangs of intimidating yobs lurking on street corners and 3 hour traffic jams are the norm everywhere is abit off the mark. Obviously we all judge a location by our own personal experiences. I'm not a city dweller or a city lover but I have been in the past and I'm fully aware of what goes on. Living in an inner city environment would 'do my head in'. The UK, especially England, is NOT perfect and it's not going to get any better. But I think that it does get some unfair press. I think it's only fair to draw attention to the rural communities. Us 'wooliebacks' still have our fair share of negatives, moans and gripes - they just take on a different form - I guess we're lucky that 3 hour commutes and rowdy mobs don't effect us. What I'm trying to say is that there's no doubt that the UK is on a decline with no real solution in sight (not while President Blair rules the roost anyway), but let's just remember that there's still those green bits between the concrete bits.
Couldn't agree more Diny
John
Couldn't agree more Diny
John
Carol
1st April 2005, 07:10 PM
I miss England..... :roll:
Oh for GOODNESS SAKE!!!!
I was just starting to get over my homesickness after my trip home!!!!
Diny!
WHat you doing lass posting pics like that!
;)
Oh for GOODNESS SAKE!!!!
I was just starting to get over my homesickness after my trip home!!!!
Diny!
WHat you doing lass posting pics like that!
;)
Diny
1st April 2005, 07:55 PM
Oops sorry Carol.
It was just the devil in me trying to make a point.
It was just the devil in me trying to make a point.
dave k
1st April 2005, 08:21 PM
But ........ it's very easy to allow the bad to totally envelop the good. To believe that pools of blood and vomit outside nightclubs, gangs of intimidating yobs lurking on street corners and 3 hour traffic jams are the norm everywhere is abit off the mark.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that it's the norm everywhere.
How could it be the same out in the sticks as it is in most major UK cities?
It is, however, very much the norm in most of the UK cities I've lived in.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that it's the norm everywhere.
How could it be the same out in the sticks as it is in most major UK cities?
It is, however, very much the norm in most of the UK cities I've lived in.
Diny
1st April 2005, 08:38 PM
Sorry to disagree with you Diny, but if you're living in any major city in the UK at the moment
You're right Dave .... but I was talking from a rural point of view. You will see that I've made a point in agreeing that city life IS like that ...... I was putting a rural perspective forward. We don't live in 'any major city'.
I was simply trying to make the point that England/UK is NOT one massive city .... there are still rural enclaves where life is very different. I'm not saying better .... I'm just saying 'different' to city life - it's as simple as that.
You have a sweet ole life in the country by all accounts... and, yeah, it's not without its' own drawbacks...but my experiences in the cities I have lived in in the UK have shown a different picture.
I'm not a city dweller or a city lover but I have been in the past and I'm fully aware of what goes on. Living in an inner city environment would 'do my head in'.
It seems like we're singing from the same hymn sheet as far as city living is going. But the fact is that NOT ALL OF THE UK IS CITY !!!!!!!!
As for having a 'sweet ol' life in the country' ........... we have the same amount of gripes and negatives as city folk - they are just DIFFERENT.
It's not a 'one size fits all' situation.
One of the complaints that is very common amongst country folk is that 'we don't matter'. Our thoughts and feelings are totally ignored because we are in the minority .......... some comments on this forum confirm this. But hey - I'm not into political 'back and forth' at this hour of the day. We all draw from our own personal experiences. If you are told one thing but actually see something different it's bound to cause confusion and discussion. There's no right or wrong place to live, no right or wrong attitude - just the right or wrong thing to do to make yourselves happy.
Now then ...... better go milk that goat .......ooh arrrr.
Diny
You're right Dave .... but I was talking from a rural point of view. You will see that I've made a point in agreeing that city life IS like that ...... I was putting a rural perspective forward. We don't live in 'any major city'.
I was simply trying to make the point that England/UK is NOT one massive city .... there are still rural enclaves where life is very different. I'm not saying better .... I'm just saying 'different' to city life - it's as simple as that.
You have a sweet ole life in the country by all accounts... and, yeah, it's not without its' own drawbacks...but my experiences in the cities I have lived in in the UK have shown a different picture.
I'm not a city dweller or a city lover but I have been in the past and I'm fully aware of what goes on. Living in an inner city environment would 'do my head in'.
It seems like we're singing from the same hymn sheet as far as city living is going. But the fact is that NOT ALL OF THE UK IS CITY !!!!!!!!
As for having a 'sweet ol' life in the country' ........... we have the same amount of gripes and negatives as city folk - they are just DIFFERENT.
It's not a 'one size fits all' situation.
One of the complaints that is very common amongst country folk is that 'we don't matter'. Our thoughts and feelings are totally ignored because we are in the minority .......... some comments on this forum confirm this. But hey - I'm not into political 'back and forth' at this hour of the day. We all draw from our own personal experiences. If you are told one thing but actually see something different it's bound to cause confusion and discussion. There's no right or wrong place to live, no right or wrong attitude - just the right or wrong thing to do to make yourselves happy.
Now then ...... better go milk that goat .......ooh arrrr.
Diny
dave k
1st April 2005, 08:44 PM
:) I re-read yr post and understood your point a bit more.
Hence my edited post.
:mrgreen:
Hence my edited post.
:mrgreen:
Diny
1st April 2005, 09:58 PM
I don't think anyone was suggesting that it's the norm everywhere.
No I don't think anybody was suggesting that either, I just felt that there should be at least a couple of pro-UK postings, if only to give a more balanced picture to anybody reading the thread who's never been to these parts.
And by the way .......... I don't have a goat :laugh :laugh :laugh
Diny
No I don't think anybody was suggesting that either, I just felt that there should be at least a couple of pro-UK postings, if only to give a more balanced picture to anybody reading the thread who's never been to these parts.
And by the way .......... I don't have a goat :laugh :laugh :laugh
Diny
veronica
1st April 2005, 10:52 PM
We lived just outside Chelmsford which is the county town for Essex up to a year ago, its got its fair share of clubs and pubs etc but its not like you're describing.
leslie
2nd April 2005, 12:41 AM
the problem with beauty is that its in the eye of the beholder. you could learn to love the inside of a skip if thats all you ever see. and hell, the way things are going people will soon be living in them and its sure to become 'fashionable' and over-priced. its when you look at stats, drive through the villages (possibly live in one) and pay attention to the murmerings of the masses that you see the real picture. if you bury your head in countryside i imagine there are plenty of areas in the uk that are absolutely awesome and you dont have to know any diff.
why is it that most historians/ people in the know are absolutley scathing about the poor return for uk masses and the worker ants keep chiming in with 'its so great'. no wonder nothing ever changes.
hmmm. wasn't it up north dozens of people/ loads of children died just for going to a saturday footie match? its been a good long time since london has seen anything like. we just kill our people slowly down here. guess you could say we're different.
will reiterate what i said - noone has ever loved an 'invading brit' so it would be kinda nice if we were the first wave.
why is it that most historians/ people in the know are absolutley scathing about the poor return for uk masses and the worker ants keep chiming in with 'its so great'. no wonder nothing ever changes.
hmmm. wasn't it up north dozens of people/ loads of children died just for going to a saturday footie match? its been a good long time since london has seen anything like. we just kill our people slowly down here. guess you could say we're different.
will reiterate what i said - noone has ever loved an 'invading brit' so it would be kinda nice if we were the first wave.
Diny
2nd April 2005, 05:09 AM
if you bury your head in countryside i imagine there are plenty of areas in the uk that are absolutely awesome and you dont have to know any diff.
Leslie ...... I have lived in many different cities, both in the UK and overseas. As I stated in my original posting, I am fully aware of what is happening in the world. You are obviously very disgruntled with where you live - aswell as being disgruntled with everything else in life. I genuinely feel for you.
I know things have been pretty dire for you but maybe you could just try to understand that the daily c**p you so regularly report is totally different to the daily c**p that us non-city dwellers report. Just because a person doesn't wail woe betide on a constant basis does NOT mean they are burying their head in the sand.
I sincerely hope that once you leave the living hell you are so obviously enduring at the moment that all your unhappiness ends - otherwise I have serious concerns about your well being.
Diny
Leslie ...... I have lived in many different cities, both in the UK and overseas. As I stated in my original posting, I am fully aware of what is happening in the world. You are obviously very disgruntled with where you live - aswell as being disgruntled with everything else in life. I genuinely feel for you.
I know things have been pretty dire for you but maybe you could just try to understand that the daily c**p you so regularly report is totally different to the daily c**p that us non-city dwellers report. Just because a person doesn't wail woe betide on a constant basis does NOT mean they are burying their head in the sand.
I sincerely hope that once you leave the living hell you are so obviously enduring at the moment that all your unhappiness ends - otherwise I have serious concerns about your well being.
Diny
leslie
2nd April 2005, 06:06 AM
the daily crap i experience is probably not much diff to the daily crap everyone else experiences - i just dont accept mediocrity. call it a problem of mine.
i live in a beautiful house that would have been in elle decor had we not run out of time and energy, in one of the nicest areas of the country. i had a great job, have a million interests, a successful husband, 2 gorgeous kids and a good wack in the bank. i guess for some of us the materials just aren't enough. and that, in a nutshell, is why we're going to nz. kiwis can be maddening - but mostly they are great. and they dont whine.
i live in a beautiful house that would have been in elle decor had we not run out of time and energy, in one of the nicest areas of the country. i had a great job, have a million interests, a successful husband, 2 gorgeous kids and a good wack in the bank. i guess for some of us the materials just aren't enough. and that, in a nutshell, is why we're going to nz. kiwis can be maddening - but mostly they are great. and they dont whine.
Mildred
2nd April 2005, 06:11 AM
you could learn to love the inside of a skip if thats all you ever see.
I love skips. :oops: I have found many a bargain in them and can't drive past without seeing if someone's rubbish can be recycled by me :roll:
I also love Broadstairs and that is the trouble. I live in a village a few minutes from a lighthouse, the beach, the golf course and of course the pub! It can take 20 minutes to walk 20 feet, to get to the village stores, as everyone is so friendly and so caring and that is the trouble.
If I lived in an area where we were scared to go out, or vandalism was bad, or pollution was bad then we would have submitted our EOI already. The damn trouble is we live in a Tudor Cottage made of flint, with an acre of land, parakeets and woodpeckers in the garden and brilliant schools. I wish it was really awful as it would make it a damn site easier to decide whether we definitely up sticks or not. We keep saying we'll give it another six months before deciding either way, but keep having to extend it.
As for English weather, as a gardener I think it is perfect. I adore the rain amd love getting soaked.
BTW what an interesting thread this is :nice1
I love skips. :oops: I have found many a bargain in them and can't drive past without seeing if someone's rubbish can be recycled by me :roll:
I also love Broadstairs and that is the trouble. I live in a village a few minutes from a lighthouse, the beach, the golf course and of course the pub! It can take 20 minutes to walk 20 feet, to get to the village stores, as everyone is so friendly and so caring and that is the trouble.
If I lived in an area where we were scared to go out, or vandalism was bad, or pollution was bad then we would have submitted our EOI already. The damn trouble is we live in a Tudor Cottage made of flint, with an acre of land, parakeets and woodpeckers in the garden and brilliant schools. I wish it was really awful as it would make it a damn site easier to decide whether we definitely up sticks or not. We keep saying we'll give it another six months before deciding either way, but keep having to extend it.
As for English weather, as a gardener I think it is perfect. I adore the rain amd love getting soaked.
BTW what an interesting thread this is :nice1
adamsat
2nd April 2005, 06:25 AM
As the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and what people like or dislike about where they live is going to vary from person to person, just like peoples reasons for moving to NZ are going to vary.
There are no right or wrong reasons for wanting to move, as long as you want to move and believe in what you are doing, that is the most important thing.
My view is that I'm moving from one great country to live to another , it's just that each has different aspects that make them great.
There are no right or wrong reasons for wanting to move, as long as you want to move and believe in what you are doing, that is the most important thing.
My view is that I'm moving from one great country to live to another , it's just that each has different aspects that make them great.
Diny
2nd April 2005, 06:37 AM
kiwis can be maddening - but mostly they are great. and they dont whine.
Thank you Lord for stopping me typing the reply that was on the tip of my tongue :laugh :laugh :laugh
Adamsat .... what a very good post - you've hit the nail right on the head.
Good luck to us all - that's what I say :nice1
Diny
Thank you Lord for stopping me typing the reply that was on the tip of my tongue :laugh :laugh :laugh
Adamsat .... what a very good post - you've hit the nail right on the head.
Good luck to us all - that's what I say :nice1
Diny
Carol
2nd April 2005, 06:40 AM
kiwis can be maddening - but mostly they are great. and they dont whine.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Leslie - you wont be coming to Wellington will you!
(They "whine" more than the Brits here!!!)
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Leslie - you wont be coming to Wellington will you!
(They "whine" more than the Brits here!!!)
Diny
2nd April 2005, 06:44 AM
Oh hey .....
I got the best ironing board I've ever owned out of a skip.
Diny
I got the best ironing board I've ever owned out of a skip.
Diny
Carol
2nd April 2005, 06:48 AM
oooooh!!!
Now there's a thought......
Chloe stood on mine a few weeks ago and squashed the thing beyond recognition.
It must be that frivolous life style we are living.... ;)
Been using a kiwi one for weeks.......ohhhhhhhhhhhhhMG!!!!!!!!!!! give me strength!
Diny - have a quick look around your local skips and see if you can bring one out for me luv!
:nice1
Now there's a thought......
Chloe stood on mine a few weeks ago and squashed the thing beyond recognition.
It must be that frivolous life style we are living.... ;)
Been using a kiwi one for weeks.......ohhhhhhhhhhhhhMG!!!!!!!!!!! give me strength!
Diny - have a quick look around your local skips and see if you can bring one out for me luv!
:nice1
Diny
2nd April 2005, 07:05 AM
Consider it done. I shall start my 'scuttering' next week. I'm on a mission.
(Scuttering ..... oh yes, there's an actual name for the activity of 'rumaging through skips' ....... I think it may be a fairly localised term though).
Diny
(Scuttering ..... oh yes, there's an actual name for the activity of 'rumaging through skips' ....... I think it may be a fairly localised term though).
Diny
Jules
2nd April 2005, 07:10 AM
'scuttering'
What a great word Diny :laugh
Jules
What a great word Diny :laugh
Jules
Carol
2nd April 2005, 07:18 AM
I love it too.....I could apply it to LOTS of situations.... ;)
Wouldn't you think it would be skippering though!!
Sort of a "fishing" about type of word.... :cool
Wouldn't you think it would be skippering though!!
Sort of a "fishing" about type of word.... :cool
Hannah
2nd April 2005, 07:49 AM
I'm not quite getting the gist of some of the postings here - maybe it's too late in the evening. I second Frances' comments - I kinda wish I was really unhappy with my local area so that the decision to move was so much easier. It's hard to put into words but when I came to New Zealand 18 mths ago I came away feeling l left part of myself behind. I've not been able to put this idea to bed since I left - I love where i live, i love my life here, but I just want to try life in another country for a while and new zealand feels right.
It's a heart decision not a head one. We'll be hard up etc. I'm sure but i just want to try it. Life is so short really...
It's a heart decision not a head one. We'll be hard up etc. I'm sure but i just want to try it. Life is so short really...
Carol
2nd April 2005, 08:00 AM
I really think.......if you need to explore the world then you have to do it.
I always wanted to find the best posible place to bring my kids up in.....and I think I've found it....at the moment.
But I know in my heart I wont remain here............
WHere we end up I dont really know.
And it will ALL revolve around how much money we acquire to be able to move on.........hard facts of life but true.
I always wanted to find the best posible place to bring my kids up in.....and I think I've found it....at the moment.
But I know in my heart I wont remain here............
WHere we end up I dont really know.
And it will ALL revolve around how much money we acquire to be able to move on.........hard facts of life but true.
Soon2baKiwi
2nd April 2005, 08:52 AM
the problem with beauty is that its in the eye of the beholder.
I sat in a train once in the middle of nowhere in The Netherlands and thought I would burst with laughter when the couple opposite me looked out over a barren field and said "beautiful view" :smile If you live in a concrete jungle then a field is a beautiful view.
As a non-UK person, indeed, an Irish person, can I just say to anyone who's also non-uk - "London is not a bad place to live". I lived there twice; once for three years 87-90 and again 95-99. First question, would I have come back if it was so awful? Hardly. I lived in Bethnal Green. Heart of the East End. I love English history and living there gave me so much opportunity to experience it firsthand. Bow - Bow Bells - just down the road. Pearly kings and queens. I saw them in the flesh - I'd only ever read about them :clap The Roman Road market - the longest street market in Europe. Antique shops that just go on and on. The Old Watling pub in Wapping where Captain Cook brought prisoners down the steps that were in the outdoor garden and where there's also a bona fide gallows. I know it was a cruel history but that's looking back from where we are now. There were loads of social problems there too but as I walked home from the tube I was calling out to my local butcher and the man on the veggie stall and having a laugh with the Indian people in the corner shop. They all treated me as I treated them. With respect and friendliness. I didn't want to leave there but had to for family reasons. I miss living in London sometimes and always hate to hear anyone run it down. As big cities go, it's definitely not the worst of them.
I have no idea what I would have done or where I would have gone if I hadn't met and married a Kiwi who wants to go home. I suspect Scotland would have come up at some stage - we loved Glasgow when we visited there. Basically, I think it's all inside a person as to how they view their environs. One man's meat is another man's poison. But I also think if you're an inherently unhappy person, you'll never find what you're looking for no matter how far you travel.
I sat in a train once in the middle of nowhere in The Netherlands and thought I would burst with laughter when the couple opposite me looked out over a barren field and said "beautiful view" :smile If you live in a concrete jungle then a field is a beautiful view.
As a non-UK person, indeed, an Irish person, can I just say to anyone who's also non-uk - "London is not a bad place to live". I lived there twice; once for three years 87-90 and again 95-99. First question, would I have come back if it was so awful? Hardly. I lived in Bethnal Green. Heart of the East End. I love English history and living there gave me so much opportunity to experience it firsthand. Bow - Bow Bells - just down the road. Pearly kings and queens. I saw them in the flesh - I'd only ever read about them :clap The Roman Road market - the longest street market in Europe. Antique shops that just go on and on. The Old Watling pub in Wapping where Captain Cook brought prisoners down the steps that were in the outdoor garden and where there's also a bona fide gallows. I know it was a cruel history but that's looking back from where we are now. There were loads of social problems there too but as I walked home from the tube I was calling out to my local butcher and the man on the veggie stall and having a laugh with the Indian people in the corner shop. They all treated me as I treated them. With respect and friendliness. I didn't want to leave there but had to for family reasons. I miss living in London sometimes and always hate to hear anyone run it down. As big cities go, it's definitely not the worst of them.
I have no idea what I would have done or where I would have gone if I hadn't met and married a Kiwi who wants to go home. I suspect Scotland would have come up at some stage - we loved Glasgow when we visited there. Basically, I think it's all inside a person as to how they view their environs. One man's meat is another man's poison. But I also think if you're an inherently unhappy person, you'll never find what you're looking for no matter how far you travel.
freeflyer
2nd April 2005, 09:04 AM
Hello, this is an interesting thread,
Our main reasons for moving to NZ are:
1: I am worried about my 9 year old daughter being a teenager in the UK!
In NZ, with easier access to the outdoors and sport , then hopefully it will be easier to avoid the teenage drug scene that is here.
2: Lack of Traffic and less people
(A 40min jouney in the New Forest took me almost 3hours today , just due to sheer volume of traffic, which kind of took the enjoyment out of the trip.)
However, I don't hate the UK , I just feel v sad about the general direction the country seems to be heading. It seems to be harder than ever to live a simple family life.
Our main reasons for moving to NZ are:
1: I am worried about my 9 year old daughter being a teenager in the UK!
In NZ, with easier access to the outdoors and sport , then hopefully it will be easier to avoid the teenage drug scene that is here.
2: Lack of Traffic and less people
(A 40min jouney in the New Forest took me almost 3hours today , just due to sheer volume of traffic, which kind of took the enjoyment out of the trip.)
However, I don't hate the UK , I just feel v sad about the general direction the country seems to be heading. It seems to be harder than ever to live a simple family life.
Mildred
2nd April 2005, 05:19 PM
Soon2baKiwi
What a well written post. Obviously you thought about this before you started typing. I think you WILL fit in anywhere and do well.
What a well written post. Obviously you thought about this before you started typing. I think you WILL fit in anywhere and do well.
Diny
2nd April 2005, 06:14 PM
However, I don't hate the UK , I just feel v sad about the general direction the country seems to be heading. It seems to be harder than ever to live a simple family life.
But I also think if you're an inherently unhappy person, you'll never find what you're looking for no matter how far you travel.
Very good comments :nice1
I have no idea what I would have done or where I would have gone if I hadn't met and married a Kiwi who wants to go home
This is my exact situation too. I love the UK, I also love to travel. Having a kinda homesick Kiwi husband made the decision of where to go and what to do much easier.
Diny
But I also think if you're an inherently unhappy person, you'll never find what you're looking for no matter how far you travel.
Very good comments :nice1
I have no idea what I would have done or where I would have gone if I hadn't met and married a Kiwi who wants to go home
This is my exact situation too. I love the UK, I also love to travel. Having a kinda homesick Kiwi husband made the decision of where to go and what to do much easier.
Diny
leslie
2nd April 2005, 06:27 PM
lying in bed last night, weeping with inherent unhappiness and overcome with despair, i was struck by how strange some of these ideas/ comments are. the majority of people all over this country are working harder and harder and struggling more and more and many would give their eye-teeth to get out but cannot for whatever reason. what would they make of this forum? what would they make of this loyal war-cry that the uk is a great place to be?
then i thought of diny's husband and others like him working on oil rigs, and in horrendously dangerous but well paid jobs elsewhere (iraq comes to mind) most of whom probably do it for the money to keep their families in good stead because their earning options/ financial needs do not align. must say i find it a bit disrespectful for someone to say 'we have a good life and everything is okay'. my husband works like a dog to keep our family comfortable - this is not okay. some people have a good life at the expense of others - there is a compromise. especially in the uk where the cost of living makes absolutely no sense where wages are concerned.
i dont wear diamonds because in wearing bloodstones one supports a regime that imperils millions of impoverished people in numerous ways. its almost macabre to see african rappers with the bling. when i buy something in the shops i feel grateful that in all likelihood someone got up and went to a badly-paid, crappy and perhaps dangerous job so i could have that thing. i walk most everywhere, even when tired, because the constant churning of fossil fuels is too lame to contribute to. i feel glad that a great country like new zealand is prepared to accept my family, despite the lack of excellent integrated appliances, or the affordability of them, because however simple its a good place to be. i dont kid myself that life is great and its only your outlook - there are a lot of cheerful, decent people all over this world doing things they have to but would rather not. the fact that you may be priviledged does not mean you earned it or will even keep it, it just means that at that particular moment you are satisfied with what you have. some people on this forum are clearly satisfied with what they have and they should think twice before they leave.
then i thought of diny's husband and others like him working on oil rigs, and in horrendously dangerous but well paid jobs elsewhere (iraq comes to mind) most of whom probably do it for the money to keep their families in good stead because their earning options/ financial needs do not align. must say i find it a bit disrespectful for someone to say 'we have a good life and everything is okay'. my husband works like a dog to keep our family comfortable - this is not okay. some people have a good life at the expense of others - there is a compromise. especially in the uk where the cost of living makes absolutely no sense where wages are concerned.
i dont wear diamonds because in wearing bloodstones one supports a regime that imperils millions of impoverished people in numerous ways. its almost macabre to see african rappers with the bling. when i buy something in the shops i feel grateful that in all likelihood someone got up and went to a badly-paid, crappy and perhaps dangerous job so i could have that thing. i walk most everywhere, even when tired, because the constant churning of fossil fuels is too lame to contribute to. i feel glad that a great country like new zealand is prepared to accept my family, despite the lack of excellent integrated appliances, or the affordability of them, because however simple its a good place to be. i dont kid myself that life is great and its only your outlook - there are a lot of cheerful, decent people all over this world doing things they have to but would rather not. the fact that you may be priviledged does not mean you earned it or will even keep it, it just means that at that particular moment you are satisfied with what you have. some people on this forum are clearly satisfied with what they have and they should think twice before they leave.
Carol
2nd April 2005, 07:04 PM
being satisfied and being content...are two entirely different things Leslie.
And having the freedom to do whatever you want to do is perhaps the most important part of life.
And just because you can.....doesnt mean that it is at the expense of others.
And having the freedom to do whatever you want to do is perhaps the most important part of life.
And just because you can.....doesnt mean that it is at the expense of others.
Nicola
2nd April 2005, 07:15 PM
i dont wear diamonds because in wearing bloodstones one supports a regime that imperils millions of impoverished people in numerous ways.
Not sure of the relevance of your statement. But so good to here somebody else say this, I am not the only one then. I totally agree with you. I will not wear diamonds. Trying to buy an engagement ring without diamonds is impossible. The assistants in the jewlers could not grasp that I did not want diamonds, they kept showing me trays and trays. Ended up with a ring with no stones at all, just silver made in Scotland.
you are satisfied with what you have. some people on this forum are clearly satisfied with what they have and they should think twice before they leave.
Do not agree here. We all have very diverse reasons for leaving the UK and we are all very diverse people. I think if someone is not satisfied here, they will not be satisfied over in NZ. Look back at some of the emigration forums, and there are loads of dissatisfied people rushing over there only to return to the UK after a few months. Looking back at the first posts from the returners was a big eye opener to me. The people who generally settle are the ones who were able to cope with life in the UK, but for a variety of reasons wanted something different.
I think if people can not cope with the frustration of life here, then it will be very difficult for them to cope with the frustration of making a new life and integrating into another society.
People are people everywhere. There are good, bad and jobsworths where ever you go. We have them here and as a lot of Kiwis originate from the UK, then I am sure there will be lots of them there as well.
Hope the above drivel makes some sense to somebody.
Nicola
Not sure of the relevance of your statement. But so good to here somebody else say this, I am not the only one then. I totally agree with you. I will not wear diamonds. Trying to buy an engagement ring without diamonds is impossible. The assistants in the jewlers could not grasp that I did not want diamonds, they kept showing me trays and trays. Ended up with a ring with no stones at all, just silver made in Scotland.
you are satisfied with what you have. some people on this forum are clearly satisfied with what they have and they should think twice before they leave.
Do not agree here. We all have very diverse reasons for leaving the UK and we are all very diverse people. I think if someone is not satisfied here, they will not be satisfied over in NZ. Look back at some of the emigration forums, and there are loads of dissatisfied people rushing over there only to return to the UK after a few months. Looking back at the first posts from the returners was a big eye opener to me. The people who generally settle are the ones who were able to cope with life in the UK, but for a variety of reasons wanted something different.
I think if people can not cope with the frustration of life here, then it will be very difficult for them to cope with the frustration of making a new life and integrating into another society.
People are people everywhere. There are good, bad and jobsworths where ever you go. We have them here and as a lot of Kiwis originate from the UK, then I am sure there will be lots of them there as well.
Hope the above drivel makes some sense to somebody.
Nicola
Mildred
2nd April 2005, 07:27 PM
my husband works like a dog to keep our family comfortable
Leslie,
If you don't mind me asking, what does your husband do?
Leslie,
If you don't mind me asking, what does your husband do?
Diny
2nd April 2005, 09:17 PM
Leslie
You really need to at least try to look at this from a different point of view. You so obviously hate your life here - just a quick scan over your posts can confirm this. However, just because you dislike YOUR situation so much, doesn't mean that everybody else is wrong when they say that they like this country.
The simple fact is ...... it IS possible to like one country and live in another.
I for one will be eagerly awaiting your posts from NZ, I genuinely hope that you will find happiness there and find the ability to take on other peoples points of views without getting so wound up.
It's been said dozens of times before - but I'll say it again.
It's not that I don't want to live in England. It's just that I DO want to live in NZ.
May peace be with you.
Diny
You really need to at least try to look at this from a different point of view. You so obviously hate your life here - just a quick scan over your posts can confirm this. However, just because you dislike YOUR situation so much, doesn't mean that everybody else is wrong when they say that they like this country.
The simple fact is ...... it IS possible to like one country and live in another.
I for one will be eagerly awaiting your posts from NZ, I genuinely hope that you will find happiness there and find the ability to take on other peoples points of views without getting so wound up.
It's been said dozens of times before - but I'll say it again.
It's not that I don't want to live in England. It's just that I DO want to live in NZ.
May peace be with you.
Diny
Danpoll
3rd April 2005, 08:34 AM
If I recall on the other site this same topic quickly condesended intomud slinging and profnaities. Testimony again to the calibre of people on this site that can have a difference of opinion and still be civil and respectful to each other.
though a little fight wouldn't go a miss
Dan :exit
though a little fight wouldn't go a miss
Dan :exit
leslie
3rd April 2005, 06:35 PM
erich fromm wrote a book called 'escape from freedom' which discusses the idea that we as human beings like our comfort zone so much we'll do almost anything to avoid making a change/ exercising our freedom. its almost comical - the idea that people will expend enormous time and energy trying to halt change instead of getting on and embracing it.
the modern image of stability is a fabrication - not since the scots were so ungraciously removed from their crofts has anyone had any. crofters tolerated dire condtions to stay put and lost their families/ social network / livelihoods anyway. there is a lesson there.
the modern image of stability is a fabrication - not since the scots were so ungraciously removed from their crofts has anyone had any. crofters tolerated dire condtions to stay put and lost their families/ social network / livelihoods anyway. there is a lesson there.
Diny
3rd April 2005, 07:11 PM
human beings like our comfort zone so much we'll do almost anything to avoid making a change/ exercising our freedom
This is very true. Obviously everybody on this forum has opted to move away from the said 'comfort zone' - that's why this topic is such a hot potato.
Human beings are creatures of habit and routine.
When we make a decision to embark on such a life changing thing as emigrating we make a list of all the reasons why we should go ahead and do it. Maybe it's one of those 'human habits' that prevent us from accepting any other reasons than those that appear on our own list - regardless of the fact that the final outcome is the same.
Good book by the way ;)
Diny
This is very true. Obviously everybody on this forum has opted to move away from the said 'comfort zone' - that's why this topic is such a hot potato.
Human beings are creatures of habit and routine.
When we make a decision to embark on such a life changing thing as emigrating we make a list of all the reasons why we should go ahead and do it. Maybe it's one of those 'human habits' that prevent us from accepting any other reasons than those that appear on our own list - regardless of the fact that the final outcome is the same.
Good book by the way ;)
Diny
Soon2baKiwi
3rd April 2005, 09:48 PM
A book I particularly like is called "Stop Thinking and Start Living" by Richard Carlson. His theory is that we think ourselves into unhappiness; e.g. when we stay mad all day because a shop assistant was rude to us first thing in the morning. The one I really love is, people who are always thinking that things are a pain in the a**e are more likely to get piles. :laugh
BTW I saw this link earlier on another site http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=3338.0
It just goes to show that we are each and every one of us unique with unique experiences and backgrounds and no two of us can ever see the same thing in exactly the same way.
BTW I saw this link earlier on another site http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=3338.0
It just goes to show that we are each and every one of us unique with unique experiences and backgrounds and no two of us can ever see the same thing in exactly the same way.
adamsat
3rd April 2005, 10:18 PM
There was a saying I picked up on a training course a few years ago.
"There's the way you see things, the way I see things, and the way it is."
Which I thought was quite good. :smile
"There's the way you see things, the way I see things, and the way it is."
Which I thought was quite good. :smile
Diny
3rd April 2005, 11:21 PM
Leslie ....... to end on a light, humourous note ....
PLEASE don't visit that link posted by soon2baKiwi. It'll push you right over the edge. :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
Diny
PLEASE don't visit that link posted by soon2baKiwi. It'll push you right over the edge. :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
Diny
Dave & Sandra
4th April 2005, 12:23 AM
I read or saw something on TV a long time ago about the rat population. As soon as their environment got too overcrowded they started fighting and killing each other to maintain a less crowded environment, a natural biological reaction.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason for a lot of people wanting to get out of the UK and emigrate to places like NZ, France, Italy wherever. We are beginning to sense that life is becoming too crowded and we need to get away to a place that is less crowded. Is this a normal response to feeling hemmed in? I'm thinking that most of us are having a biological reaction to this feeling that we need more space. This situation of sitting on the M6 for a couple of hours when it's a Bank Holiday, just to get out and enjoy the countryside is now totally beyond our control and we have a need to do something about it. The only thing to do is to emmigrate.
Anybody else have this feeling????
I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason for a lot of people wanting to get out of the UK and emigrate to places like NZ, France, Italy wherever. We are beginning to sense that life is becoming too crowded and we need to get away to a place that is less crowded. Is this a normal response to feeling hemmed in? I'm thinking that most of us are having a biological reaction to this feeling that we need more space. This situation of sitting on the M6 for a couple of hours when it's a Bank Holiday, just to get out and enjoy the countryside is now totally beyond our control and we have a need to do something about it. The only thing to do is to emmigrate.
Anybody else have this feeling????
Glenda
4th April 2005, 01:54 AM
I read or saw something on TV a long time ago about the rat population. As soon as their environment got too overcrowded they started fighting and killing each other to maintain a less crowded environment, a natural biological reaction.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason for a lot of people wanting to get out of the UK and emigrate to places like NZ, France, Italy wherever. We are beginning to sense that life is becoming too crowded and we need to get away to a place that is less crowded. Is this a normal response to feeling hemmed in? I'm thinking that most of us are having a biological reaction to this feeling that we need more space. This situation of sitting on the M6 for a couple of hours when it's a Bank Holiday, just to get out and enjoy the countryside is now totally beyond our control and we have a need to do something about it. The only thing to do is to emmigrate.
Anybody else have this feeling????
Yes ... but it is sure hard to explain. :?
I think many people do not like to admit it and prefer the definite reasons as to why they are emigrating. However, I do believe there is a lot more to animal instinct and unconscious collective thinking than we realise. Historically, there have always been emigrants to other 'new' lands, but I feel today's 'pioneers' seem to be going more on a gut instinct. Some would say this is due to 9/11 but it was happening before then (though I am sure that day did wake a lot of people). The tv programmes about moving to the countryside or overseas came about because of peoples sudden interest in the subject.
Like rats, we do want space and we want our children to reproduce, and our grandchildren to reproduce. Apart from looking at statistics and other facts, I think we can also sense the UK is too crowded and thus a higher risk of disease and hunger should things go wrong. I think a lot of us can sense that things cannot get any better, only worse, and we feel helpless here to do anything about it.
I like to think that this 'biological reaction' is healthy and should be acted upon. I am sure I am not the only one who has looked at their comfortable lives and homes, the beautiful daffodills and bluebells, (Tescos and M&S down the road :mrgreen: ) etc. and still feels that instinct to emigrate.
You know what they say about rats and a sinking ship. :roll: :smile
I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason for a lot of people wanting to get out of the UK and emigrate to places like NZ, France, Italy wherever. We are beginning to sense that life is becoming too crowded and we need to get away to a place that is less crowded. Is this a normal response to feeling hemmed in? I'm thinking that most of us are having a biological reaction to this feeling that we need more space. This situation of sitting on the M6 for a couple of hours when it's a Bank Holiday, just to get out and enjoy the countryside is now totally beyond our control and we have a need to do something about it. The only thing to do is to emmigrate.
Anybody else have this feeling????
Yes ... but it is sure hard to explain. :?
I think many people do not like to admit it and prefer the definite reasons as to why they are emigrating. However, I do believe there is a lot more to animal instinct and unconscious collective thinking than we realise. Historically, there have always been emigrants to other 'new' lands, but I feel today's 'pioneers' seem to be going more on a gut instinct. Some would say this is due to 9/11 but it was happening before then (though I am sure that day did wake a lot of people). The tv programmes about moving to the countryside or overseas came about because of peoples sudden interest in the subject.
Like rats, we do want space and we want our children to reproduce, and our grandchildren to reproduce. Apart from looking at statistics and other facts, I think we can also sense the UK is too crowded and thus a higher risk of disease and hunger should things go wrong. I think a lot of us can sense that things cannot get any better, only worse, and we feel helpless here to do anything about it.
I like to think that this 'biological reaction' is healthy and should be acted upon. I am sure I am not the only one who has looked at their comfortable lives and homes, the beautiful daffodills and bluebells, (Tescos and M&S down the road :mrgreen: ) etc. and still feels that instinct to emigrate.
You know what they say about rats and a sinking ship. :roll: :smile
Diny
4th April 2005, 02:31 AM
Some very good interesting points.
Diny
Diny
sarahw
4th April 2005, 01:13 PM
Hi this has been an interesting thread - especially about the rats!
Although hate to sound negative (and this post is going to be negative & I'll probably start a fight here but I can't hold back any longer on this one) - I love the UK countryside (come from a farming family), however, we didn't live there anymore we lived in the crowded South East just outside London & we'd really had our fill of the UK by the time we left & I don't think we'll ever live there again.
The country has changed so much since we grew up & I want my kids to have a similar childhood to what Ian & I experienced. I remember playing out (with all age groups - the eldest keeping an eye out for the young ones) all year round until it went dark. I remember being able to walk to the shops on my own from quite a young age, going to London shopping with my friend at a young teen age, I remember us playing in the woods & everything being safe, I remember walking to the school bus on my own. Having had step-kids in the past I've seen the today view on kids & what they can & can't do (OK he was an overprotective parent but it was an interesting experience to see how potentially my kids would live in this day & age).
Kids seem to have to grow up a lot quicker there these days & I wasn't keen on the yob culture going on - 12 year olds being asked to leave my gated front garden told me to Fxxx off!!!! (gosh at that age I'd never have spoken to an adult like that especially if I was trespassing on their property!) and 16 year olds vandalising traffic lights and cars & pushing cars into the canal next to our house (where we parked our brand new cars) every night :eek , smashing our neighbour's front windows, kicking down the wall of the churchyard, smashing shop windows (nearly every weekend!) & we lived in a 'nice!!!!!' area in Surrey - West Byfleet with supposedly good schools.
Before that Ian lived in a supposedly 'nice' suburb of Croydon - 20 yobs used to hang around outside his house all night and vandalise cars and property - walls were kicked down on a regular basis & the police were always being called out and I don't think I had one night of proper sleep in the whole year I used to stay the weekends there - the old people that lived in the street were prisoners in their own homes as they were terrified. In a year there were something like 150 incidents with the police & these yobs & there was nothing we could do but sell his lovely house and move out.
There is a growing lack of respect for elders and other people and that's not something I can live with. I'm not saying that the UK was crime free when I was growing up but this kind of mindless vandalism wasn't something that I or Ian (and he grew up in Streatham!) experienced as children.
We know we're not alone - a lot of our friends in the South East area of our age group are emigrating because they've had enough too & those that aren't emigrating were behind us. Both sets of parents said if they were our age & didn't have the ties of old parents/other kids & grandkids they'd leave too.
I know this is a very negative post and that most in this thread have been quite positive about the UK :oops: but this was a major factor in us leaving - (well that and Tony Blair!!!)
Although hate to sound negative (and this post is going to be negative & I'll probably start a fight here but I can't hold back any longer on this one) - I love the UK countryside (come from a farming family), however, we didn't live there anymore we lived in the crowded South East just outside London & we'd really had our fill of the UK by the time we left & I don't think we'll ever live there again.
The country has changed so much since we grew up & I want my kids to have a similar childhood to what Ian & I experienced. I remember playing out (with all age groups - the eldest keeping an eye out for the young ones) all year round until it went dark. I remember being able to walk to the shops on my own from quite a young age, going to London shopping with my friend at a young teen age, I remember us playing in the woods & everything being safe, I remember walking to the school bus on my own. Having had step-kids in the past I've seen the today view on kids & what they can & can't do (OK he was an overprotective parent but it was an interesting experience to see how potentially my kids would live in this day & age).
Kids seem to have to grow up a lot quicker there these days & I wasn't keen on the yob culture going on - 12 year olds being asked to leave my gated front garden told me to Fxxx off!!!! (gosh at that age I'd never have spoken to an adult like that especially if I was trespassing on their property!) and 16 year olds vandalising traffic lights and cars & pushing cars into the canal next to our house (where we parked our brand new cars) every night :eek , smashing our neighbour's front windows, kicking down the wall of the churchyard, smashing shop windows (nearly every weekend!) & we lived in a 'nice!!!!!' area in Surrey - West Byfleet with supposedly good schools.
Before that Ian lived in a supposedly 'nice' suburb of Croydon - 20 yobs used to hang around outside his house all night and vandalise cars and property - walls were kicked down on a regular basis & the police were always being called out and I don't think I had one night of proper sleep in the whole year I used to stay the weekends there - the old people that lived in the street were prisoners in their own homes as they were terrified. In a year there were something like 150 incidents with the police & these yobs & there was nothing we could do but sell his lovely house and move out.
There is a growing lack of respect for elders and other people and that's not something I can live with. I'm not saying that the UK was crime free when I was growing up but this kind of mindless vandalism wasn't something that I or Ian (and he grew up in Streatham!) experienced as children.
We know we're not alone - a lot of our friends in the South East area of our age group are emigrating because they've had enough too & those that aren't emigrating were behind us. Both sets of parents said if they were our age & didn't have the ties of old parents/other kids & grandkids they'd leave too.
I know this is a very negative post and that most in this thread have been quite positive about the UK :oops: but this was a major factor in us leaving - (well that and Tony Blair!!!)
sarahw
4th April 2005, 02:34 PM
By the way - on the subject of the rats & overpopulation... just doing a bit of studying which happens topically to be on population - the quote - even though from 1989 really makes you think:
'If all the people from China and India lived in the continental US (excluding Alaska), this country would still have a smaller population density than England, Holland, or Belgium.' (Forbes, 1989)
Pretty scary eh?!
'If all the people from China and India lived in the continental US (excluding Alaska), this country would still have a smaller population density than England, Holland, or Belgium.' (Forbes, 1989)
Pretty scary eh?!
Diny
4th April 2005, 08:08 PM
Hi Sarah
I think your post is really good - not negative at all. You're speaking from actual experience and have told it like it is - good on you.
I remember my childhood being exactly the same as yours, we still live in a rural area so certains things are the same, however, nobody can deny that things are getting bad - real bad. I agree with the rats deserting the sinking ship theory. It's just that the part we live in isn't as 'sunk' as some other parts, but obviously before long we'll all be resting on the seabed.
Hey - that was quite poetic wasn't it.
Doesn't alter the fact that I love this place - maybe more for what is was that what it is - who knows. I'm aiming this comment at myself NOT anybody else - but I think I'd have to start asking myself a lot of searching questions if I left a wake of hated locations behind me.
Sometimes I think we're just fed up to the back teeth with our own personal 'normals' ...... a change is as good as a rest. No matter where we live, sooner or later it will become 'normal'. I guess the challenge is to make ourselves happy and contented - wherever that may be.
Abit of a ramble but I know what I'm getting at.
Diny
I think your post is really good - not negative at all. You're speaking from actual experience and have told it like it is - good on you.
I remember my childhood being exactly the same as yours, we still live in a rural area so certains things are the same, however, nobody can deny that things are getting bad - real bad. I agree with the rats deserting the sinking ship theory. It's just that the part we live in isn't as 'sunk' as some other parts, but obviously before long we'll all be resting on the seabed.
Hey - that was quite poetic wasn't it.
Doesn't alter the fact that I love this place - maybe more for what is was that what it is - who knows. I'm aiming this comment at myself NOT anybody else - but I think I'd have to start asking myself a lot of searching questions if I left a wake of hated locations behind me.
Sometimes I think we're just fed up to the back teeth with our own personal 'normals' ...... a change is as good as a rest. No matter where we live, sooner or later it will become 'normal'. I guess the challenge is to make ourselves happy and contented - wherever that may be.
Abit of a ramble but I know what I'm getting at.
Diny
Danpoll
4th April 2005, 08:34 PM
There is definatley too many people in this country. What is it 80 million, the US is 26 times bigger with 250 million australia is 20 odd times bigger with 30 million. The figures speak fo themselves. I think the UK's biggest problem is that it does not have the capacity or intial design layout to be able to comforatbly grow. our towns and cities are sprawling out and the original infrastructure cannot cope. This farcical idealism that "their concreting the countryside" is twoddle. When you see so much green arable land that needs to be developed. It is unfortunate but its about time we dropped these 1950's eutopian planning reigmes and got realistic.
For me its the queues wether traffic in the shops in the post office or at cash points they drive me insane.
Dan
For me its the queues wether traffic in the shops in the post office or at cash points they drive me insane.
Dan
Glenda
5th April 2005, 12:53 AM
Cannot get a clear indication of the UK's population. According to books I have it was 56million in 1973, £60 million in 1981. Today, the figure of 60million is still being bandied around and ... well ... I'll eat my hat if it is!!! My guess is 73million.
Apparently, the population of London keeps going down too. :laugh
The UK, really, is great. The seasons are great - not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter. The countryside, old buildings, quaint little towns - great. The history (love Time Team :yes ) - great. To most of us it is our homeland, it will always be a part of us, and it should be the one place we feel at ease.
However, I don't feel at ease here and nor does my very English husband. We do feel over-population is a factor and it has changed a lot in this country the last ten/twenty years. We feel changes will continue and just being crowded on the motorways will be the least of anyone's worries. We feel life will become cheap and the individual will feel like just another ant in the anthill. With the population increasing, the government has to manage the masses somehow and some things have to change. They are building an estate in a neighbouring town and none of the houses will have garages or parking bays. It is envisaged that buses will pick up the residents and take them to work and home again. This example may not be a widespread indication of social engineering but it is worrying.
Aargh, not feeling very articulate and probably beginning to sound paranoid. :exit
Apparently, the population of London keeps going down too. :laugh
The UK, really, is great. The seasons are great - not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter. The countryside, old buildings, quaint little towns - great. The history (love Time Team :yes ) - great. To most of us it is our homeland, it will always be a part of us, and it should be the one place we feel at ease.
However, I don't feel at ease here and nor does my very English husband. We do feel over-population is a factor and it has changed a lot in this country the last ten/twenty years. We feel changes will continue and just being crowded on the motorways will be the least of anyone's worries. We feel life will become cheap and the individual will feel like just another ant in the anthill. With the population increasing, the government has to manage the masses somehow and some things have to change. They are building an estate in a neighbouring town and none of the houses will have garages or parking bays. It is envisaged that buses will pick up the residents and take them to work and home again. This example may not be a widespread indication of social engineering but it is worrying.
Aargh, not feeling very articulate and probably beginning to sound paranoid. :exit
cpgrant
5th April 2005, 02:30 AM
Cannot get a clear indication of the UK's population. According to books I have it was 56million in 1973, £60 million in 1981. Today, the figure of 60million is still being bandied around and ... well ... I'll eat my hat if it is!!! My guess is 73million...
A very good, but kind of a creepy reference for these issues is: CIA The World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/)
According to the CIA: the population for the UK in July 2004 is 60,270,708 - and knowing those guys, they probably counted each and every one :laugh
Some Data for Comparison:
UK
Area: 241,590 sq km.
Population: 60,270,708 Density: 249.5 Popluation Growth: 0.29%
Per Capita GDP: US$27,700
NZ
Area: 268,680 sq km
Population: 3,993,817 Density: 14.9 Popluation Growth: 1.05%
Per Capita GDP: US$21,600
US
Area: 9,161,923 sq km
Population: 293,027,571 Density: 32.0 Popluation Growth: 0.92%
Per Capita GDP: US$37,800
A very good, but kind of a creepy reference for these issues is: CIA The World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/)
According to the CIA: the population for the UK in July 2004 is 60,270,708 - and knowing those guys, they probably counted each and every one :laugh
Some Data for Comparison:
UK
Area: 241,590 sq km.
Population: 60,270,708 Density: 249.5 Popluation Growth: 0.29%
Per Capita GDP: US$27,700
NZ
Area: 268,680 sq km
Population: 3,993,817 Density: 14.9 Popluation Growth: 1.05%
Per Capita GDP: US$21,600
US
Area: 9,161,923 sq km
Population: 293,027,571 Density: 32.0 Popluation Growth: 0.92%
Per Capita GDP: US$37,800
Timbo
5th April 2005, 04:33 AM
They can only count them if they can find them. :yes
cpgrant
5th April 2005, 04:41 AM
They can only count them if they can find them. :yes
And seeing how well they did with the infamous WMDs..... maybe the population of the UK is only 100 people... :mrgreen:
And seeing how well they did with the infamous WMDs..... maybe the population of the UK is only 100 people... :mrgreen:
Timbo
5th April 2005, 04:57 AM
:laugh :laugh :laugh :nice1
Glenda
5th April 2005, 05:27 AM
Putting my 'conspiracy' hat on ... I would say the figures have been massaged, or to be PC "corrected to show the true picture". Maybe before everyone but visitors were counted. Maybe now everyone born in the UK or made a citizen of the UK are now counted as "true population". How many millions of people that leaves out is anyone's guess. Of course, a lot of people have the right to just work in the UK for one or two years from other countries. Are they considered in the population figures?
Ought to do some investigating just to satisfy my curiosity.
:smile
Ought to do some investigating just to satisfy my curiosity.
:smile
Diny
5th April 2005, 05:51 AM
That's worth thinking about. Not just talking about UK now, talking about any country. When a population count is made, do they count the citizens only - bearing in mind that at any one time there's going to be a certain percentage of them out of the country. Do they count everybody in the country on a particular date, regardless of whether they are citizens, illegal immigrants, visitors, overseas students etc etc.
Splitting hairs to get right down to 'actual' numbers, I guess nobody would ever really be able to give an exact - nail on the head - figure. For instance. If a population count took 4 days, it stands to reason that during that 4 days some people are going to die and some are going to be born, some are going to emigrate and some new residents are going to arrive (not counting the ones that try to enter a country illegally).
I think the best anybody can 'quote' for the population of a country of any reasonable size is to the closest few hundred thousand.
I guess demographics isn't an exact science and suggesting a more accurate way is way beyond me :no
Diny
Splitting hairs to get right down to 'actual' numbers, I guess nobody would ever really be able to give an exact - nail on the head - figure. For instance. If a population count took 4 days, it stands to reason that during that 4 days some people are going to die and some are going to be born, some are going to emigrate and some new residents are going to arrive (not counting the ones that try to enter a country illegally).
I think the best anybody can 'quote' for the population of a country of any reasonable size is to the closest few hundred thousand.
I guess demographics isn't an exact science and suggesting a more accurate way is way beyond me :no
Diny
© emigratenz.org. All Rights Reserved
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.