[Yorkie]

14 Months ago I went to New Zealand with my wife and then 2 year old boy. We were totally taken in by the country and just fell in love with it.
The last 12 months we have done nothing but research the country and the possibility of emigrating. In September we were selected from the pool and in January my ITA arrived. We decided to go to New Zealand one more time to fact find and look round schools speak to job agencies and prospective employees. We flew again for a 1 month stay and have just returned last week. We have some good friends in New Zealand some are Kiwis and some are English we spoke a lot with them and they took us and showed us different things. During the stay we realised that maybe we had seen a lot of things through rose tinted glasses. I am not denying New Zealand is a beautiful country :clap but on a personal level we did not feel all things considered that it could offer us a better lifestyle than what we currently enjoy. It wasn't a case of just getting cold feet both me and my wife had really built our hopes up but it was a case of seeing things a bit clearer second time round. :eek

I'm sure lots of people have gone to New Zealand and made great lives for themselves and I admire them all :clap the only reason for the post is if you've any doubts try if you can and have a second look. It's a big step and I do feel that it wouldn't have been right for us but before I flew second time round I was convinced it was for me :wah

[ruthyroo]

Well done on making what sounds like a rational and well thought out decision. DH and I were talking this weekend about our move here, and we came to the conclusion that we would probably have been more than satisfied with an extended holiday in NZ - see all the wonderful sights, do some tramping and camping and kayaking, experience some of the culture and interesting heritage - you really don't need to live and work here to appreciate what NZ has to offer. In many ways IMHO, if you are coming from a good life in the UK, NZ is a better place to holiday and explore than live in! We're here now and going to make the best of it, but don' t expect to be here for more than a few years more... but you never know. Best wishes for the future anyway.

[Sunshine20]

A very wise move to a second trip to make sure NZ is for you. We moved here without visiting and like RuthyRoo are of the opinion it is nice for a long vacation but not really where we want to live and settle down. We have been here 2 and a half years and are intending to leave after the Lions tour ends. We will have some nice memories of NZ but will be glad to move on.

[sarahw]

I think it was good for you to have a second visit (especially for as long as a month) to consider your decision.

For us it was the perfect move & I couldn't be happier & can't see myself living anywhere else ever. However, I know its not for everyone, it is a different lifestyle. It took us a lot of thinking and talking to come to our decision & I'm glad we came over to check things out & make sure we were making the right move.

Good luck in the future :nice1

[jo b]

Hi

we did exactly the same thing 3 years ago. Decided to emigrate but thought best to have one more look just in case. We came back home and decided the time wasn't right.

3 years on we are in a different position and it feels just right for us.

I think you have done the right thing as sometimes you just need the extended vacation.
We aren't just moving for us but also for our kids who btw are absolutely loving NZ.

You never know in a few years time you may feel different. Best fo luck
Joanne

[ruthyroo]

That's an important thing to remember - New Zealand ain't going anywhere! It will still be here if we change our minds some time down the track.

[leslie]

good to be able to visit second time.

we decided to move back to the uk in the aftermath of 9/11. it turned out to have been a v stupid move for our family - we weren't thinking clearly enough to pick up the reality. we decided on the basis of information provided (inadequate to grossly negligent - sometimes you can research and still get caught) and not enough on emotion. we left the uk for a number of reasons and once we were back permanently it was apparent things hadn't changed that were important. a 2 week school-research trip post 1 months online research wasn't enough, it merely ignited the coil. we had a comparatively 'charmed' life elsewhere and coming here threw us backward. more than a little irony there.

you have to want to be somewhere in both heart and head or yes, an extended holiday/ work experience will do the job. anything more than a year requires genuine effort and committment, and you have to really want to be there to make it work.

nz is a hard one. definately is more of a sense of no-going-back to it. its far more radical than shifting to europe. it would be interesting to know where immigs who leave nz go next, ie. do they move on to a new country or go home? wonder how much disatisfaction with move to nz is lack of experience???

[Diny]

Having a 2nd trip to see how the land lies is a very good idea. I bet you're thanking your lucky starts that you did go and have another look before you packed up everything and headed out there on a perm basis.

An extended holiday is a good idea, and like somebody has already said, NZ will always be there.

I wish you all the luck in the world wherever you decide to be.

ps. Jo ....... can't tell you how happy I am to hear that Bethany has decided she likes NZ, it'll make things so much better for you. Looking forward to seeing you when you gt back.

Diny

[evelien]

Hai Yorkie, and others of course,

We have a similar story. Love NZ, put in EOI, received ITA and decided against it.

We have spent months of thinking, considering, investigating, reconsidering, you name it. We have now definitely made the decision that NZ is not for us.

Why?

We truly love NZ. I lived there as a kid. We visited NZ twice in 2004. Five weeks holiday with X-mas. In November we went back especially to investigate the labour market. We were astonished. We knew of course that the salaries are very low, compared to Holland. But there is more to it. We talked to a lot of people, stayed with immigrants, visited recruitment agents and even a factory. We were very surprised to find out that 90% of all companies have less than 50 employees. So a lot of small businesses a very few career opportunities. Hence the low wages. And the lack of social security.

The money-thing. I know life-style, out doors etc are priceless. But we have a kid with a condition that will make it very difficult for me to go out for a job for at least the next three years. So we will have to live on one income.
We now have an annual income of 200,000 (in NZ dollars) and a company car and phone. In NZ we will get 50,000, maybe 60,000??? (Horror scenario: 40,000 or less). When we sell our house and add that to our savings we will have 600,000 to start with in NZ.

In NZ we will get 3 weeks vacation each year (and no money to go on vacation?). In Holland we both have 8 weeks a year fully paid vacation. We always take 2 weeks with the kids (Greece, Switzerland, e.g.). And every year 1 holiday just the two of us to some exotic place (Mexico, Africa, New Zealand, e.g.). And the weekend trips in between. We go out dining every week. Basically we do anything we like.

We came to the conclusion that moving to NZ will probably have a lot of negative sides to it for us. It seems that living there will shut down the possibilities we now have to see other great places. NZ is beautiful, but it is not the only beautiful place on earth. I once stood on top of a Maya-temple (South America). As far as I could see was rainforest! Very impressive. I could go on and on, but I think I made my point.

We want to experience it all, and it seems that that particular goal can only be reached if you can afford it. And kiwi-dollars won't get you very far on this planet!

I would rather visit NZ once every couple of years, and spend my Dutch euro’s, and have a fabulous time there, than living there, having to work all the time and having to struggle for the day-to-day living.

I know, vacations are not the same as living, but life in Holland isn’t that bad. Okay, we don’t have mountains lakes beaches scenery. And the exotic trips make us appreciate deeply that we have the chance to do these things.

This decision has left me very sad. But in my heart in know it is the only sensible thing to do in our situation. I feel that it is the right choice, and now we can go on with our lives. Thank god we haven’t sold our house yet or given up our jobs. We will now concentrate on our family life and our careers. And I’m already planning a safari trip in Tanzania this X-mas! And in July we are going to Central Europe with the kids.

I wish all you the best of luck and hope everyone makes the decision that suits him of her best.
Cheers!

[veronica]

I really enjoy the fact that on this forum it can and does present more than one aspect of life in (or not) Nz and people don't have to feel intimidated because they don't follow the majority opinion. :clap you guys who have a different point of view go ahead and post it as it may give others who have doubts a better viewpoint than the 'rah rah NZ' posts. Each of us have different reasons for wanting to give it a go or otherwise., there is no right or wrong in these opinions.

[leslie]

holland is amazing. i'd still put some of those euros into a holiday home in nz tho.

[dave k]

Hey Yorkie...

just curious as to what may have been the more specific factors in NZ not working out for you?
Whereabouts were you staying?


I moved from York too btw........ &, for me, it's panning out well & I really love where I am in Wellington.

[SoCal Gal]

Hi Yorkie,
I didn't want to start my own thread, and you have really put a lot of things into words that we have been wondering about, experiencing, etc.
As some of you may know, I have had the hardest time ever, I still have not received an ITA, I was selected at 100 points on Sept. 1, fell through the cracks, called their attention to it, and had my fingers stomped on ever since trying to hold on....I have just received from my future employer a LONG questionairre sent by NZIS, we're talking essay type answers that HE is supposed to give about me....what a mess. I think we are ready to chuck it, it isn't working out, it really isn't and I am sick of trying. We own a house about an hour outside of Wellington that has sat empty since last September. My husband lived in it a month and tried to 'think positive' about the pluses, but $$$ to repair things is quite a bit more (I've detailed in old posts). I know a lot of people over the world think we are a lot of 'spoiled Americans' but we are good people, very anti-Bush, and everything that has happened since 9/11 has broken our hearts.
A big tipping factor is probably that we have just had a 10 day visit from the dearest people on earth, our Kiwi friends from our adopted NZ town. And they have pointed out so many things that we take for granted here. They have bought lottery tickets to move here! We even all watched "Fahrenheit 911" together, and at the end of the film, we felt very strongly about wanting to reclaim OUR America. It just really, really wouldn't be better for us in NZ. If we had kids, sure, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But we have been told NO on so many levels, in so many ways with all the hurdles we've had trying to get an ITA, that we are finally listening. We are supposed to go to NZ on holiday. We first started looking into this because we heard that NZ was like a small California 20 years ago. I can honestly say that I don't think that is true, after all the time we have spent in both places. I'm so happy for the others, who this is working for, but after a very, very honest look at it all, and this latest setback, I think we are done.
Good luck to everyone, I have learned so much from this forum and really enjoyed meeting all these great people.
:cool

[clg]

Socalgal,

I have been following your posts, sorry to hear things did not work out but as long as you are comfortable with your decision that is all that matters.

I am curious, what did your Kiwi friends point out that you had been taking for granted?

[SoCal Gal]

Hi there fellow Cal!
You know, I'm not so happy at all really that things have taken the turn they did, and without feeling badly towards others who've made it through the process, I have come to the realization that it's beyond us now. It is completely out of our hands....having the NZIS send this outrageously complex questionnaire to my potential employer at this stage of the game, well, things are just really on their own terms now, not mine at all. I have never, ever seen anyone on this forum jump through the hoops that we've encountered....without an ITA. OK, time to calm down.
I took our Kiwi friends around, they are the most wonderful, down to earth people - of course - and here are some things I had conveniently forgotten about - in no order of importance, by the way.
1 - we get to pick a salad dressing here (they had heard of 'ranch' on TV!)
2 - we can buy some halfway made things at the grocery store when time is short, they loved Trader Joes, but then, who doesn't
3 - My friend that loves movies started crying at the Mann's Chinese theater in Hollywood, because her mother would have loved it so much
4 - Endless refills on coffee
5 - For so many people driving in Southern California, we drive remarkable courteously
6 - they loved it that people in stores and restaurants are so friendly
7 - One friend is a rather large woman, and was thrilled to death to find pretty clothes at a plus size woman's shop
8 - they think we have 'pretty shoes'
9 - Southern California is gorgeous with the wildflowers!!
there's more, but that gives you the jist of it.
I think we'll still make it down one day, but I think I need to give it a rest.
:uhoh

[sarahw]

SoCal Gal - so sorry to hear your story - it sounds like you guys have been through a lot of stress & hassle but everything happens for a reason & if the reason is that you have re-discovered your love of your home country then thats a pretty good reason I'd say!

I don't think anyone on the forum would be silly enough to generalise about Americans (or Brits for that matter) being one way or another i.e. your comment about spoilt. I think that's what makes this forum great is that everyone is respected as an individual & we all come from different backgrounds & have different points of view - thats what makes the world such an interesting place!

Good luck in your future - we really wish you well. :nice1

[SoCal Gal]

Thank you so much, Sarah, that was a very kind posting you made. Yes, and if this topsy-turvy immigration process has shown me anything, it's that there are so many great opportunities out there, with so many wonderful and encouraging people, what a great world this can be.
And who knows, at the rate I am going, I'll probably end up having tea with you in Wellington before the end of the year! Yay!!
:cool

[Diny]

SoCalGal

Sorry to hear your run of bad luck still continues. Whatever decision you make, either in the long run or short term, make it for the good of yourselves. Follow your heart.

No need to worry about the way the world feels about Americans. Having a hubby who is in the oil business I've come into contact with alot of you guys and I've yet to find one I dislike (although I'm sure - like all nationalities - there are some pains in the butt).


Quote: it may give others who have doubts a better viewpoint than the 'rah rah NZ' posts

I totally agree! It is hugely important to have views from all angles, and equally important to go with your gut feelings.

The trick is to be yourself in a world that is wanting you to be like everybody else. Ain't that a fact.

Diny[/quote]

[SoCal Gal]

Thanks so much, Diny, I always enjoy your posts and really appreciate your post! And thrilled to see that you will be on your way in May, awesome!! I haven't quite fully embraced my change of path yet, but I'm open to it....and you know, I've been really, really proud of the people that my Kiwi friends have run into up here, just like they were so happy for us to meet-n-greet as many Kiwis as we could down there. Wonderful people abound most everywhere one looks to find them, I think!
:cool

[Sunshine20]

SoCal Gal - I think the US would be a fab place to live. My brother is a US cit and lives in Seattle (what a wicked city!) and if it wasn't for the fact that it will take me 12 years to get a greencard I would join him in a heart beat. The US is the most popular destination for migrants the world over - hence their horrendous processing times for PR, and their cap on work permits. You live in a fabulous, diverse country, with some of the most amazing scenary I have ever seen. Be proud of it, because I would love to live there.

[miep]

Hi all,

SoCal Gal, I know what you're going through. NZIS took 17 months to process our application for pr! All that while we were already here on a work permit working in a job on the skills shortage and priority occupations lists. And boy did they ask some inane questions! Every time we got a letter from them I had to wait at least 2 weeks to calm down enough to be able to write a reasonably polite reply! :mrgreen:
But we got there in the end and we're very glad we persevered.

I'd like to add a different perspective to this very interesting thread; I feel there has been a lot written lately about the low wages here and I haven't contributed to those discussions much because I don't want to come across as gloating or showing off but Eveliens post in this thread sort of triggered me into action.

We make roughly the same amount (slightly less before tax and slightly more after tax) per month as we did in Holland. And we weren't doing too badly overthere either.
Yes, we have fewer holidays here, I have 4 weeks and hubby has 5, but we have a life here beside work. In Holland we were stuck in traffic so much that by the time we got home we didn't feel like doing anything. Whereas here we don't work crazy hours and often do things after work.
Although we used to live in Amsterdam, we do more cultural things here. We go to all the arts, film, fringe and other festivals here and we go to the rugby and we go to concerts and we socialise with friends and go out to dinner a lot. (and sleep in on weekends!) ;)

Ofcourse I would love to have more holidays but having said that we barely notice we have fewer days because do so much other stuff we don't feel the need for a month long holiday every year plus a couple of shorter ones like we did back there.
So, yes it is possible to find well paying jobs (we're both in IT which helps a lot) and have a great life here. Ofcourse there are differences (pensions, social welfare etc) but then this is the other side of the world. If NZ was the same as NL I don't think I would have wanted to move here!

:cheers Miep

[RoadRunner]

Miep,
Thank you very much for your perspective! :nice1

Although we are not there yet (fingers crossed) we certainly hope/expect to do so many of the things you mentioned. Plus, we'll enjoy the extra vacation (TWO weeks is standard in the US when you start a new job).

Thanks again!
:cheers
RoadRunner

[leslie]

it does seem that for some reason you are not meant to be there now. hope not too disappointed. as one who left and regretted it i suggest hanging on to house though, if you can manage it, so you have plan b when the mysteries of life reveal themselves. and plan b isn't so expensive.

when i moved back to uk after uni degree in canada a friend took me to have my cards read as a joke/ gift. when i drew the cards the womans face face went strange and she became v quiet. i had drawn 4 of 6 crisis cards and as she put it, she had never known anyone to draw more than 2 and didn't know what to say. i remember thinking 'QUACK, whatever'. not really big on these things. just laughed. suffice it to say my entire life collapsed around me over the next couple years, despite several nice things happening (like living in nz). i was shredded in the end. but after a major dusting and a lot of reflection life is sorted and far more meaningful. never call people quack anymore! also never forget the mystery of it all.

(you haven't p'd off georges boys, have you?)

[MB]

SoCal Gal,

I think that you have a very close eye for the possibility that you are being given 'signals' about a given idea or action. So what you judge to be the wisest course of behavior in this case is probably paramount. Whether your decision will be influenced by the words of your pals on the forum is, of course, up to you. As long as you know we're thinking about you!

One other thing: as I said in a recent PM, our own small example suggests that NZIS process or decisions can and do change, even when things look discouraging. So maybe it's worth just leaving a window open for this to happen with your application (you probably will do that anyway) after all the effort you've put in.

You know where we are if you want PM us or post on the forum. :nice1

Cheers,
Matt, Vera and Winston.

[Diny]

That reminds me ....

One of my good forum buddies had abit of a sticky start with NZIS. When they first applied, they went through all the motions only to be turned down. They smarted and fumed for a few months, put the idea on the backburner and kind of took it on the chin.

Then they decided to apply again .... bingo !!!!!

The rest is history, they're now in Auckland and loving every minute of it.

The moral of this tale? Maybe knock the idea on the head for a short while, take stock of your situation and then look at the entire scenario through new eyes a bit further down the line.

I think your emotions are a little raw at the moment to make any objective decisions. I'm certainly no expert but maybe a 2 or 3 month break from living, eating & sleeping NZIS may just do the trick.

After all ..... it took us 15 years to decide to move to NZ :roll:

Diny

[Annierobrigado]

hello again, diny, socal gal, yorkie, sarah, everybody!

i've been gone from the forum for a while coz with the way things are going for us, i feel as if i don't belong anymore... our status hasn't changed and it's been 5 months- actually 6 by april 10 - since our eoi has been selected. i know it's something similar to some of those who were long in waiting for the change in status, but now that we have a philippine contingent and almost everybody in that group has been given ita's already, i feel like the kid left out of all the teams. nobody wants to choose me waah! :wah

dont mind me i am just feeling sorry for myself... but anyway, it seems some of the forum people have opted not to go through with nz migration anymore. i'm sorry to hear that, and hopefully you will find what you thought you missed when you started thinking about migration. it has occurred to me that i might have to say the same things to myself, what if nz isnt really for us? i think the best thing would be for us to visit nz first, although we will have to think carefully on that as we earn in pesos not in dollars or euros or pounds, so that doesnt stretch as far as we would like it.

so cal gal, about half of our population (exagge!) would dearly love to settle in the us, especially in california, and i think you bump into a filipino there almost every hour. my parents are actually in san francisco, and my brother in law lives in los angeles. you'd think that was the place we would head off to, instead of nz. but the pace in america is too fast, too rat-race, too toxic for us who are used to a meandering lifestyle. we don't have the hunger or the drive enough to make it there, and i believe we would just be literally stepped on. but i still dream of visiting the us someday.

what am i saying? probably am just wishing i could make things definite now than just waiting for nzis to send our ita - if they would - or send us the rejection slip. do they do that? i mean, if they check your eoi and see you don't pass their criteria, even if we have more than 100 points, will nzis send you a letter saying "we regret to inform you..." ? I would gladly take that instead of simply hanging about and wondering what on earth are they taking so long for? One of our Philippine group sent his eoi just this feb and was given his ita before march arrived. now how does one do that?

anyway, to those who won't go to nz any longer (can i get your ita? haha), good luck but keep in touch! we can always share good stories wherever we are. and to those still trying to make it (as we are), let's toast each other and say, see you over there guys! To those who are there already and loving every minute of it, don't disappear! Keep in touch so we have some guidance and morale boosters every now and then!

:cheers
annie

[Diny]

Annie

When us NW forumites met for lunch on Saturday your name was mentioned. We were all wondering where you'd got to, haven't seen you around for a long time.

I can understand how you must be feeling but NEVER feel that you don't belong. There's no pre-requisites for membership to this club !!!!! You have as much right to be a member of this forum as anybody. Keep posting lady ..... we want your news.

Can't give any other advice other than 'keep the faith'. And remember - there's a huge network of mates here - all of whom have gone through the NZIS battlefield - hand in there. It WILL be worth it in the end.

Diny

[SoCal Gal]

Thanks, all, for such great messages....and we are definitely keeping the window open! And the house! We took our lovely Kiwi friends to the airport this morning, and I found the most beautiful note when I returned home. These people - and the many like them - are the asset that is really pulling us to NZ in our hearts, I know. We have great people here, of course, and I have a couple of awesome Filipino girlfriends too by the way :-) but there's something about those Kiwis, that Land of the Long White Cloud, etc., that tears at our heart, and we won't let our dream go, I just know it. The timing is all off, that's all. So, I look forward to reading the forum and hearing everything - no detail too small as I have often said! - and someday I think we'll get there, believe me, I am a firm realizer of one's life turning upside down all at once, and sometimes it's for a good thing! So I'll look forward to that, and my movie night for the Palmerston gals, with the Scooby Doo popcorn maker! It was the ONE thing that made my Kiwi friends eyes just about leave their sockets up here....My Scooby's famous!
Hugs to all and best to you Annie, I've been missing your posts too! Hang in there, baby!
:cool

[Annierobrigado]

diny and socal gal

yup - coz of you guys i'm hanging in here. i really did miss reading the posts and replying, but besides feeling sorry for myself i got busy also coz the school year has ended and we're gearing for graduation, summer school, etc... but i'm back and i'm really glad.

keep those posts coming! and pictures, please, more pics! especially of your meets, get togethers, barbecues, etc...

cheers
annie

[Anita & Marco]

Hi everybody!!!
Just became member of this forum and fell into all the discussions above about whether NZ will be a good choice or not!!
My partner, Marco, and myself, Anita just received ITA and will go for the Medical Checks next week, so we hope to send ITA at the end of April.
I love to read also the other part of the story. This is the first forum I read about disadvantages of NZ some of which I am aware of, but on the other hand: LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT!!!

Here in The Netherlands we have a good life and would be able to have a good life until we die. We will definitely miss good friends, but are sure we will make new kiwi-friends (or Brits, Scots, Philippines etc). We are very focussed on NZ at the moment, but realise that we still do not have our PR. And if things will work out wrong for us, we know the world is much bigger than Holland or NZ, since we have been travelling around quite a bit.

For the moment we are hoping/dreaming that we can start a life in NZ and thank you all for the good information and reading!!!

Anita

[Diny]

Anita & Marco.

Welcome to the forum. You have the right attitude. I hope everything works out for you.

Keep us posted regarding your process.

All the best.

Diny

[Raeven]

Hi, Yorkie,

As another forum participant who ultimately decided the move to NZ was not our best choice at the moment, I do understand how you are feeling. I can tell you that in our case, no regrets. We will always love NZ and always look forward to our visits there. But when we really analyzed what we sought, we discovered it was here in the States all the time -- just in a different place than where we lived. Now it's new adventures all the time -- hope things are the same for you! Well, perhaps not all things.. there was an embarrassing episode with goats... :uhoh

SoCalGal, I'm sorry to hear you are backing away from your dream just now, but also somewhat relieved that you are giving yourself a break from it all. It's wearing to the bone worrying about all this stuff -- your life is betwixt and between, and that's an exhausting place to be! Now.. have you given any thought to Oregon? :raebanana :raebanana

Teasing!! All possible hugs to you, as you know.

XOXOXO, Rae

[Juniper]

i love reading threads like this, they are very enlightening. it is very easy to get caught up the idea of escapism, without giving full weight to how much of a risk such a drastic move is.

we have tons of great things about our lives here - our house is right in the redwoods, a tiny town of 2000, but only an hour from san francisco. i've been working from home, for a good wage, doing work i love (although it's a bit tough to be a freelancer i'm learning). my husband has his own local business, in a slump lately, but nice and close to home at least. we have lots of lovely friends and family nearby, a menagerie of wonderful pets, and the climate/culture is just our style. what's not to love?

i guess it really comes down to fear of the future. it's unbelievable, the direction america has careened in. and on the whole, outside our little bubble, it wasn't that great before either. no one really believes that things will take a really really nasty turn until it's too late, then you have people trying to escape and not being able too. yeah, sounds paranoid, but it happens, and we're showing all the signs.

even if there is no particular disaster, socially it's just becoming less and less sane, more and more extremist. i've seen what an impact one leader can have, i'm not looking forward to the long-term fallout.

if it weren't for the fact that it will be financially, logistically (arg that darn menagerie), and emotionally very difficult to extricate ourselves from california, i don't think we'd hesitate. best to get out before starting a family, who will have to deal with even longer term fallout.

i know fear isn't a great foundation for a big life move, but along with opportunity, it is one of the biggest motivations for immigrants the world over and throughout history, i believe.

[KiwiB]

Juniper,...in a few years time Bush won't be the President anymore...would the psychological, social, economic etc etc environment improve for you ? Would you then want to stay back in California ?

How about moving to another part of USA ? How about moving to Canada ?...why NZ ?

I apologize if it appears I am being nosy...the above questions are just me wondering aloud....sorry if I ask too much...

You see...I know of so many friends (not in NZ) who are "dying" to emigrate to USA.....they are even going for the "green card lottery" annually !! :roll:

:exit :uhoh

[Juniper]

don't worry about it, my reasons are an open topic as far as i'm concerned :)

when bush was first elected, we used to joke that we'd head for canada if they revoked term limits and gave him a third term. turns out two was too many. things aren't going to change very much when bush steps down, because there is -so- much cleanup to be done, and the mentality to do it just isn't there as far as i can tell. what really hit us when he got a second term was that either (A) people really are blind enough to support him after what he did with his first term, or (B) bush's regime is so powerful that they don't need to stick to the rules in order to get what they want. maybe some of both. in either case we are disgusted and disturbed.

i just can't believe that things will turn around in less than a couple of decades. we'd need a powerful anti-bush, if you'll excuse the term :P to step up and lead the other faction to even heal things back to the way they used to be. j'm just not seeing much potential for that. i am encouraged by certain organizations such as moveon.org, but they have their hands full just combatting agregious new distractions like the social security silliness.

at first we thought, well why not try out NZ for 2-3 years. but the expense/logistics are just to drastic to half-ass it. it's kinda all or nothing, although we'd prefer to keep a small house in cali both as an investment and an emergency return policy. not sure that will be manageable, but...

i think the expense of visiting home is really daunting. a lot of things are really daunting! but so is the prospect of raising kids in whatever america turns out to be in their lifetime (i don't think it's too much to assume that nz will continue to be socially and educationally superior). we'd probably get a taste of our own medicine when these hypothetical kids grow up and decide they want a real salary tho, and move to cali! heh...

what is it that attracts your friends so strongly to the usa? is it just based on job hopes? because i don't feel that our economy is so great, and us bucks keep sliding down....the grass is always greener i'm sure, and there are aspects of america (okay, aspects of california) that i just love...but it's quickly becoming "a nice place to visit."

i've been hearing that opportunity and salaries are quite limited in NZ, but i also hear that wellington has a good creative/software industry, which my husband and i both have experience in. it seems like we have a shot, is this too much to assume? is the wellington job market pretty slow?

[KiwiB]

"what is it that attracts your friends so strongly to the usa? is it just based on job hopes? "

These friends (not in NZ) have glorified ideas of USA ...partly due to Hollywood propaganda and mainstream newspapers and American consumers' huge buying power...believe it or not, they also buy-into Bush's ideas of axis of evil...they feel it is good that Bush has the guts to step into the shoes of "international policeman or cow-boy" and rid the World of undesirable characters (too much John Wayne?)...They are also happy with Clinton's economic success and global diplomacy during his 2 terms despite his lack of personal marital moral (think its is natural for man to stray?)....during Clinton's 2 terms, there were less animosity and more goodwill and feel good factors....

Many of them know that job markets in the States are poor and US$ not so strong now (they think what comes down must go back up one day)...however they don't wish to be employed...many of them want to set up their own businesses and employ other pple to work for them....they still harbour the "American Dream"..whatever that means to them...."the land of opportunities"...full of slim beautiful blonde and long legged (too much Hollywood?)... :laugh

Many of them simply LOVE America and Americans in general....have been to the usual tourist spots in LA, San Diego, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Seattle, NY, Washington DC, Oregon Coast, Redwood Forest, Yellow-Stone Park, Yosemite, Lake Tahoe, MT Rushmore, Grand Canyon, Rocky Mountains, mid-west etc etc...they come away thinking that States are varied, beautiful, full of nature and gifts from mother Earth, fun, affordable (as long as they can earn US$ and spent US$), warehouse shopping, huge malls, leader in medicine, in pop culture, technology, creativity, freedom, performing art, academic brilliance at the top notch Universities... etc etc....(USA did an excellent job at self-marketing and self-promotion?) :P

Job market in Wellington is still good...friends there in the software industry feels that as long as one has the suitable skills and creative ideas...there are plenty of good paying opportunities...network around and a good job may find you :nice1 .. many global companies set up shops here as operating costs are low...many creative and skilled pple love living in NZ....good for their mind and soul to get away from the "terrible and corrupted" Old World in the Northern Hemisphere ;)

[robothamma]

I know exactly what you are going through, I have been there myself :wah 6 months ago we sold our house hubby had job offer, and we had been drawn from the pool, and we were all set for our new start that we had been so desperate too start! But I woke up one morning and realised I wasn't ready! :roll: There is that much stuff going on towards the end of the process (Those that are now in NZ and those at the end of the process will know exactly what I mean! :uhoh ) Things just happened too quickly for us and the smallest of cock-ups turned everything into a nightmare, the nightmare being that it meant by the time we got over there we only had 4 days to find somewhere to live, find transport, sort out bank account etc.... and deal with 4 little uns while recovering from the time difference and the flight! before hubby had to start his job :eek , they were not flexible in his start date (fair enough they had waited 3 mths, but even so it was a big move we were making!) This coupled with the fact that I have a very unsupportive family who put me on the biggest guilt trip ever, I just couldn't go :oops: So here we are 6 mths later in rented accomodation still in the UK in the run up to the election which I really don't give a damn about because I AM going to New Zealand! We have spent 6 months agreeing not to discuss New Zealand or UK to give ourselves some breathing space and to look at things with a fresh mind :nice1 So I am sorry that I suddenly vanished from this forum but those were my reasons :oops: But I do think it was fate that we were meant to go as during the last 6 mths no matter what we do or where we go there is a reminder about New Zealand, the most recent being a holiday we booked to Norfolk 2 weeks ago, sat in the corner was some coasters with pictures of New Zealand! Anyhow I have not mentioned NZ this time to my family if they were abit more supportive I would :nice1 so I will tell them once I have booked the flights and arranged shipping! Leaving family behind is hard (sometimes! :laugh :nice1 ) but I realise now I have to do what is best for MY family and I really do not want my kids growing up here in the UK!
So our situation now is we have submitted EOI 11/04/05 drawn 13/04/05 with no job offer we have to get our medicals, police checks already sent off for, and full assessment from NZQA! Then hopefully we will be offered PR in approx 6mths! I know most of you will be thinking is she mad? The answer yes I am :laugh I do feel guilty as well because I know how hard it is to get as far as we did, and I know just how lucky we were so I do sympathize with everybody who is still waiting on something, and I wish you all luck. :nice1
Kim - I am sorry you still havn't sold your house, (It makes me feel even guiltier :( ) but it is good news that your employer is still holding your job for you :nice1 hope he still has the Scania waiting? :laugh ) Phil is still looking to go out there as a fitter, although his eyes lit up when I told him drivers were now on the shortages list :laugh Don't know where we are going to end up now! before it definitley had to be the South Island, but I don't think it really matters anymore so long as there is work and the kind of lifestyle we want (A couple of acres! :nice1 ) and the whole of New Zealand is such a beautiful country I think I could settle for holidays on the South Island! :laugh
Sandra - I am sorry I didn't reply to your last PM in Nov, I've only just got it for reasons I've listed above! :oops: Well done with the house, it looks beautiful, and I am very sorry to hear about Dave' s misfortune, hope he gets better soon!
Moorf - WOW Moderator! :nice1 and I believe you have given up smoking :clap I really will try if I ever get over there! Glad you are both settling in and enjoying yourselves!
Well I think I have rabbitted enough on someone elses posting so I am going to make a :exit for the time being! :nice1

[Juniper]

Many of them simply LOVE America and Americans in general....have been to the usual tourist spots in LA, San Diego, Santa Cruz

hiya, apologies to those who were offended by the inadequate censorship of my original reply - i certainly withdraw my recommendation to see the movie "team america" :P

in any case, i suppose the grass is always greener. there is a lot to love about santa cruz, yosemite, and the rest of those places that i've been to. it sounds like they have the right mindset to be happy here.

robothama i know what you mean about seeing new zealand everywhere once you start thinking about it! it's not just friends of friends who have lived there, although plenty of those have popped up, but seemingly random things like inserts with the credit card bill advertising vacation packages there. hehe i think john stewart even alluded to wanting to move there on "the daily show" :-) (does that show get any air overseas?)

[zensamurai]

Hi Juniper,

you seem to be the american I never met. I have been on holidays many weeks in the west of the US, but also been on exhibitions and sales meetings (Chicago, Atlanta).

I have never understand the glorification of the US (although I had similar feelings being 20 years younger). Most people just don´t look behind the scenery.

I think I know, what you are talking about (look you actual governor). Most people overseas believe the amrican dream (I never did), because of good marketing. One experience I made: an american salesman said as introduction: "You all know, the only thing I am interested in, is making money".

Perhaps New Zealnad is not that corrupted that way today and perhaps they learn from the faults other societies made.

Cheers

zensamurai

NB: I am from Germany and I have heard it is some sort of paradise ???

[Juniper]

hi zensamurai :-)

that's interesting that you didn't meet a few liberals while vacationing on the west coast (of course there's all types here, but quite a few liberals). did you get much interaction with the locals? supposedly half the country agrees with me (more or less), but so far that hasn't been good enough.

wow what an asinine way to introduce yourself...i wonder if that gets him results in the business world?

i made some friends in sweden who also said they were glad they met me so they could change their image of americans, which was gratifying :-)

i'm hopeful that you're right when you speculate that new zealand is less corrupt/rat racey. that's the impression i get, but i guess everyone has to see for themselves if it meets their expectations.

one of my acquaintances from the santa cruz area visited NZ recently, as a preliminary step to moving there. somehow he was disillusioned about it, certain things being too similar to america i guess. i think they were expecting the south island to be more pristine, even in the cities, and found the sight of parking lots full of SUVs jarring.

a question for those of you that didn't find NZ suited you after all - was social progressiveness or "purity" part of your expectations, and did it have anything to do with your dissapointment?

[zensamurai]

Hi Juniper,

thanks for response, but couldn´t find "asinine" in my dictionary. I have been working in middle management in Germany in export european and worldwide and never had problems to convince or sell something. Just trying to be trustworthy (never tried to pretend someone else).
Glad to hear there are more of you, but didn´t met in business. I have been in Sweden, too. Nice country and mostly nice people.

Cheers and best for future

zensamurai

[MB]

Zensamurai - I think Juniper was referring to the US salesman you quoted, not to you, when she said "asinine"! :nice1

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your response about that to her. I don't think so, but sorry if so...

I'll go away now. :laugh


Cheers,
Matt.

[Juniper]

haha yeah i was talking about the american businessman! asinine is not a positive word, the online dictionary says "Of, relating to, or resembling an ass."

lol...

*(pardon the swearing again btw, included here only for reference purposes...)

[zensamurai]

Hi,

pooh, I really misunderstood Juniper (perhaps since I am not a native speaker).
Unfortunately he was the most successful salesman of the company he was working for. That´s why I was really sad. I believe, as all people above, that there is a little bit more in life than money.
Thanks for replies.

Cheers

zensamurai

[Juniper]

I believe, as all people above, that there is a little bit more in life than money.


You're right, that does seem to be a theme among people attracted to NZ!

I often wonder whether all the Kiwis who move overseas for jobs find themselves content in the old world and americas. Do they face the same kind of cost-of-living reality checks that seem to be common for us immigrants to NZ? Is the grass greener enough to make them stay? That would be an interesting statistic, I suppose the data must be out there somewhere...

[zensamurai]

Hi,

Juniper you are absolutely right:

You wrote: "Do they face the same kind of cost-of-living reality checks."

It´s the same with Germany. Many people think it is the paradise, but will wake up, when they realize living costs (twice as high than NZ) and that you will get a well paid job only, when you are really qualified (master or PhD).

I would work for half the money if I have half the costs for living (or less). Unfortunately I have no figures for the UK. Some years ago I have been in the UK on several business trips and got really far less for my money.

Thuis best tip for all: calculate costs of kiving and what you are expecting of life.
Juniper: You are welcome to send pm, if you want to have further mail contact. Since I have been in US several times I am happy to find people not as ... as I met.

Best regards to all

zensamurai

[Hannah]

This is a really interesting thread - my hubby and i went to Scotland a few years back and he was obsessed with moving there. We went again last summer and he got bitten all over by midges and won't go back!! We also stayed in the same cottage as once before and he found it really boring ("i know the area to well"). I pointed out that it would be the same if we lived there!!
Wonder what will happen when we come to NZ in November...
I've found some of the views on this topic really interesting and it's good to hear that no-one regrets living in NZ despite choosing to move back/move on.
hannah

[Stefan T.]

To Juniper and ZenSamurai:

I know - this is a bit off topic... I only must say that I lived in Hawaii, earned my Ph.D. in the US and regularly spent time in Florida and California since my first high school exchange at age 16, and for a long time I practically ONLY met liberals, greens and wildly open and tolerant people. Of course that may have to do something with the scenes I dwell in: environmental scientists, physicists, space scientists, science writers and similar folks. It changed a bit when I had more contact to the corporate scenes, where the lie seems to be one of the principal strategic tools. But anyway: I always considered the US as my beloved second home country, which is why the post 9/11 era really breaks my heart. We always thought about moving to the US, Hawaii in particular because of the many opportunities for me and also the large Filipino community there (my wife hails from Mindanao). But... to be honest this is totally out of the question now.

To return to the thread: I think that one must be clear-sighted about the reasons to go to NZ. We still have a long way to go - just received the... I don't know the abbreviations yet. Invitation to apply for residence. In any case we are totally aware that it will not be easy, that the income will be limited, but income is not everything - at least for us. If I work 8 hours a day in a job that I can tolerate but ultimately do not really enjoy that much (sitting behind the computer all day... if I would have wanted that, I would have focused entirely on computer science and not on Geo Sciences etc.). I am a field scientist at heart. I enjoy working outdoors under any condition; I enjoy hard hands on work - with some academic challenge involved. So if I get that - I had that in Hawaii - what else do I need? Another view is that in NZ it is possible to get a paid job in conservation related sectors that are largely based upon unpaid volunteer work in Germany due to lack of government support. I also think for children it is a great country. The fact that NZ does not have 200 TV channels for example is a pro and not a con in our view. There are many similar aspects. Ultimately I think it all really depends on expectations and personal lifestyle.

So much about my views on the topic.

All the best to ANYONE.

Cheers

Stefan

[StevieD]

Good post Stefan, interesting angle on things!

[Stefan T.]

Hello all,

I haven't been here for quite a while, so just a note on our decision to postpone our New Zealand plans. About four weeks after we had received our ITA last September we had learned, that our little daughter will have a sister this year, so that was the first complication in the making. But more were to come. Our house in Germany couldn't be sold yet (the market is really down here in Germany), one of my customers went bancrupt and did not pay his dues (we are talking 50 Euro Grand) and I also had my doubts about the conditions attached. My main point with the latter is that I cannot freely choose how to earn my money. I was a freelancer all my life, and I also have no problems picking grapes or driving a taxi for a living, if that should be required, but in NZ none of that would be allowed. My feeling is that that would be a severe limitation of my freedom, and one reason for us to go to NZ is to have MORE freedom, not less. Another issue is Yvette's Hashimoto Syndrome, which is a chronic medical condition. So we are thinking now, Yvette will try to complete her BS and to get her EU citizenship (she is a Pacific Islander), we will keep trying to sell our house, and then we will see if we get beyond the 140 points and through the medics.... We love the country, but it is, after all, an enormous effort and, yes, a huge step, too.

Take care all of you

Stefan

[Lukas]

I didn't understand what stops you picking grapes or drivind a taxi in New Zealand?

[arentol]

Greetings all,


Hi everyone, I just wanted to introduce myself and express my sincere appreciation for this forum! My wife and I live in Las Vegas and we are contemplating a move to New Zealand in the future (i.e. still a few years away).

You know, this thread got my attention because it is one of the first times I have seen people share their migration decisions in a rational way. Most forums I see are simply havens for extreme attitudes (no matter what the subject matter is). I was just so impressed when I read "This isn't for me right now" and "Yes, I made the right decision" all in one thread sans argumentation and opinionated rants.

As for us, we are in the very early stages of our migration decision, so your experiences are quite valuable & helpful. I wasn't overly keen on the political aspects of some posts, but that's just me and we all have our own opinions (what a boring place the world would be without them!). As an American, I do think that now is the time to seriously look at migration... there are a multitude of reasons, with a) my family's safety and b) a less-hectic lifestyle at the top of the list.

I found it real interesting how some members from Northern Europe had up to 8 weeks of paid vacation and were a bit disappointed (understandably so) at the 3 (soon-to-be 4) weeks per year of NZ vacation time. Here in the States (where everyone is a workaholic IMHO) it's common for new employees to only have 5 vacation days off per year and then going up to 10 after two years or so. By the way, are NZ vacation days paid? Or typically unpaid?

In any case, thanks for reading and GREETINGS to all of you! :) I know that, down the road, we'll be asking tons of questions when the EOI time comes around. ;)


Take care,
Arentol :nice1

[Lupin]

I found it real interesting how some members from Northern Europe had up to 8 weeks of paid vacation and were a bit disappointed (understandably so) at the 3 (soon-to-be 4) weeks per year of NZ vacation time. Here in the States (where everyone is a workaholic IMHO) it's common for new employees to only have 5 vacation days off per year and then going up to 10 after two years or so. By the way, are NZ vacation days paid? Or typically unpaid?



Paid!!!

Surely?? :uhoh

Here in the UK my husband would get 6 weeks off a year when he qualifies (MH nurse) so 4 weeks is going to feel a bit stingy. 5 days is just dreadful.

[Debbie]

I haven't been here for quite a while, so just a note on our decision to postpone our New Zealand plans. About four weeks after we had received our ITA last September we had learned, that our little daughter will have a sister this year, so that was the first complication in the making. But more were to come. Our house in Germany couldn't be sold yet (the market is really down here in Germany), one of my customers went bancrupt and did not pay his dues (we are talking 50 Euro Grand) and I also had my doubts about the conditions attached. u

Stefan
Congratulation to you and your wife on the forth coming birth of your daughter, what a wonderful complication.
I am sorry to hear that the other factors effecting your move to NZ aren't as possitve and I hope that they work out for you. Hope your wife's medical condition remains stable, It's not somethink I've ever hear of before but I hope that she is keeping well.
All the best Debbie

[MB]

Stefan - what a great, rounded post. Thank you for sharing a lot about your busy family and life.

For what it's worth I think you are setting yourselves up for success in moving to NZ if that's what you choose one day. I say this because you guys seem so clearly aware of the size and potential of the whole project.

As Lukas asks, why could you not do just any job? Would it be because of the conditions of the particular visa/path you would take? Probably.

All the very best with your growing family. And if you want to stick around the forum, we look forward to other posts. :nice1

[Singel]

Stefan, sorry to know of your medical and financial woes and wish you all the best of luck with sorting it out. We keep everything crossed for you and your family. :nice1 :nice1

New Zealand will always be there, come when you are ready :yes

By the way, CONGRATS with the forthcoming baby :cheers

We would really like to hear from you again.


P.S. All NZ vacation days are paid

[boonkien]

It is sobering to read this thread. Thank you people like Evelien, Yorkie and Stefan to share your side of the story so that would-be migrants like us can have a more balanced view.

Our intention to move is more of a pull than a push factor. I have nothing against my country (Singapore). Wages are moderate, crime rate is low etc. But our day to day living can get very stifling because there is very little to do here except shopping and eating on this tiny crowded island. Kids' education is good but rather single-faceted (big emphasis on academic aspect). We can maintain status quo and still have nothing to lose (and bear with the hot and humid climate till our deaths :o ).

Sometimes I ask myself : is it all worth it to move out and settle for a lower wage when we can visit NZ as tourists? :confused: On the other hand if we continue to live here, we are not sure if our kids will face a more dreadful future as the competition is very keen here (from education to jobs to even grocery shopping!).

Singapore is only slightly bigger than Lake Taupo... just imagine 4 million people squeezed in that area. 80% of people live in high rise apts. Choices to lead an alternative work-life are limited.

That's why we are taking a 2-week recce trip in May. Some friends advised us to visit some touristy places, but we thought we should spend more time to experience NZ as a future home than to see it as tourists. That's why we thought of using homestays rather than motels coz we can find out more things with the owners. What'd you think?

[Smiler]

Stefan
As Debbie said 'what a wonderful complication'. I think it's the sort we would all prefer. Congratulations :nice1

Emmigration is an enormous life changing step to make and none of us take it lightly. But when the time is right for you, who knows. Have fun planning.

My OH had to take a job to get PR after 3 years of working for his own company. It's difficult time and he much prefers being his own boss, but in a couple of years who knows? I had 6 weeks paid leave and now work for us and every second counts. But our move to NZ is a long term plan for our future and if we have to jump some difficult hurdles to achieve it, it makes it more worthwhile in the end. Plus we are having fun on this roller coaster ride, coz the ride didn't stop when we got our PR.

Boonkien
I've not yet been to Singapore and find it hard to imagine the crush of people. I can understand the pull thing and especially the desire for a good future for your children.

Homestays, B&B and campsites would be great ways to meet people and we did this on our reccy trip. Owners are always willing to help with info and it is nice to have a conversation rather than look at a pc to find out info.

Good luck with the reccie trip.

Arentol Hi and welcome to the forum. :nice1

[Stefan T.]

Thanks for all your comments everyone! What a great group you guys are ;-). I agree fully: we have to be reasonable. There also is an emotional component involved in our emmigration plans, though. We are not starving here, and yes - we do still have 6 weeks paid vacation, mostly free health insurance and a solid social security system etc. But security and comfort is not everything.

I used to live in Hawaii for a while in the mid 90s, and that is when I fell in love with Polynesia in general. But living in the US... what is all this economic success good for, if there is no time left for living? Unless, of course, one gets into a position that becomes part of the life instead of just allowing one to make a living...

@boonkien: I totally identify with your situation. We are also more pulled than pushed. Nothing is really that wrong, and many people from around the world actually dream of migrating to the Western EU countries, but there are many other factors. In my case it also just happens to be so that there are many more (and more interesting) job opportunities for Geographers/Environmental Scientists and planners in New Zealand than in Germany. And - our country has been in a depression for the last ten odd years. And I also mean that in a psychological sense. It is not really funny - complaining became the national passtime. :wah

[willsken]

I had 6 weeks paid leave and now work for us and every second counts. But our move to NZ is a long term plan for our future and if we have to jump some difficult hurdles to achieve it, it makes it more worthwhile in the end. Plus we are having fun on this roller coaster ride, coz the ride didn't stop when we got our PR.

Well said! :D

[Toronto_Kiwi]

Some of you will want to give me the virtual finger considering how slight my quandary is relative to the huge hurdles most of you face. I'm a Kiwi by descent and a company is recruiting my husband to work in Auckland/Wellington with a salary at least over the magic $80K NZD that I understand (from this amazing forum) you need to live comfortably as a couple in Auckland. I want to have a baby in the next few years and I think it would be better to have our immediate family close by whereas I only have distant cousins in Auckland. We just got back from visiting them in Feb and they're lovely but it's not like having your parents & sister close by.
My OH keeps changing his mind about the move. He's flying to LA this week to meet NZ corporate honchos: they seem like nice folks. His biggest doubt is whether he wants to work for a multi-national agency in NZ: eventually he'd rather have his own company and it would be easier to start one up in Toronto than in Auckland. His major pull to move is the nasty weather in Toronto that keeps us indoors half the year: he's training for Ironman and 3 hr plus indoor rides in April are very boring.
Do you think NZ corporate culture, even at a multi-national, is different enough from Canadian / US / UK offices for someone who likes to work in sandals & shorts and avoid jargon-heavy Powerpoint presentations to be happy? If I were convinced that he'd truly be content there then I wouldn't mind uprooting so much - but I'd hate to get there, settle in (maybe find a job for myself in IT OR have baby), and then do an about face if he changes his mind again! (He does that pretty frequently). On the other hand I could just regard it as a one to two year adventure but as I've learned from all of you there's a big difference between moving and visiting.

[boonkien]

what is all this economic success good for, if there is no time left for living?


That is so true...

[Smiler]

Hi Toronto

That a difficult position to be in. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be away from my parents when my son was born. Although the way we communicate with each other has changed in 21 years, I was lucky to have their physical presence and support.

My OH works for a bank, wears jandals in summer, collarless shirts and cords unless meeting the very top big wigs. He says they employed him for his intellectual ability not his dress sense. :D

Maybe look at it as an adventure rather than a long term fixed plan?

[Juniper]

it's interesting to go back over a thread i contributed to a year ago and find fresh perspectives :-) hehe, sorry about all the bush-talk previously, that can get tiresome...

the main reaction i have when i read over these posts about making the decision, i make note of one concept in particular: "we can always try this out for a few years, then go back if it doesn't suit us."

there is some thing a little dangerous is using this as a sort of "why not?" reason to go ahead and do it. i've had some good talks with my aunt (who is from sweden) about being an immigrant. she lived in califonia and oregon for several years, married my uncle, then they moved to sweden.

what she found is that you are not really "moving back home," it is more like immigrating once again to a new land. after being gone for even a couple of years, you will have new perspectives, culture shock all over again, and you will have missed out on everything that transpired while you were gone. even family relationships can be different. my aunt was perhaps unlucky in this last aspect, but her family really did resent the fact that she had become a new person. also no one really wants to hear about all the marvelous insights you have had as a result of having lived abroad...

i lived abroad for all of 4 months as a student, and it was strange to feel like an outsider when i got back, over stupid things like pop culture references even!

i am not trying to squash people's dreams of going over "just for an adventure," i think that is totally valid. just try not to base your happiness too much on the idea that you can always go back home, back to your previous life. you are most likely not going back to your old life, you are just continuing your search for a good one.

as a side note, my aunt and uncle now have a great life in sweden, despite the rocky re-entry ;)

[Toronto_Kiwi]

i am not trying to squash people's dreams of going over "just for an adventure," i think that is totally valid. just try not to base your happiness too much on the idea that you can always go back home, back to your previous life. you are most likely not going back to your old life, you are just continuing your search for a good one.

It's so true that you can't return to your home after a few years absence and expect to pick up your old routine. I moved from the West Coast of Canada to Montreal then Toronto for university. I didn't expect to stay but after a few years it was hard to imagine returning to the near-constant rain and piss-poor public transit of Vancouver. I never knew any better when I was growing up: I just thought (despite geography lessons) that every city in the world was perched between the ocean and mountains and of course you always need a rain jacket on any given day! That said Juniper, if you think a move to New Zealand might be too extreme and you're looking for a more sympathetic socio-political environment, you could try Vancouver.

[kiwidebs]

what she found is that you are not really "moving back home," it is more like immigrating once again to a new land. after being gone for even a couple of years, you will have new perspectives, culture shock all over again, and you will have missed out on everything that transpired while you were gone. even family relationships can be different.

Thanks Juniper, your aunt has summed up nicely just how I feel at the moment. It is a really disturbing feeling not being comfortable in a place that used to be your life. I am feeling really disjointed at the moment although I am sure things will be better once we settle into life here. I thought I'd prepared myself for this, and often told people that after 9 years away (more than a quarter of my life) that I was emigrating just as much as my husband and kids, but the emotional reality of it has been harder than I thought it would be.

Debs

[pleccy2000]

kiwi debs - what county have are you in?

[kiwidebs]

Hi Adam

Really must update my 'where am I' bit of my profile. I'm a Kiwi who spent 9 years in London but have recently relocated back home to Auckland. As my above post suggests, I am finding it hard going at the moment. I know from other Kiwis who spent considerable time in the UK then moved back to NZ that this is something that may take some time to get beyond. It is strange to find myself joining the cries of 'I miss M&S and Next and Debenhams and all that was familiar to me.....', but here I am (and I never considered myself materialistic at all!!).

Debs

[Juniper]

I just thought (despite geography lessons) that every city in the world was perched between the ocean and mountains and of course you always need a rain jacket on any given day! That said Juniper, if you think a move to New Zealand might be too extreme and you're looking for a more sympathetic socio-political environment, you could try Vancouver.

i have heard that vancouver is a cool place to be ;-) however, i don't think i could take the steady rain! 5 years in oregon was all the rain i could take. the problem was that once the weather set in, there was no sun for months and months! from what i understand, at least NZ's bad weather is punctuated by pretty days here and there :nice1

[jewelsvani]

Hi Adam

Really must update my 'where am I' bit of my profile. I'm a Kiwi who spent 9 years in London but have recently relocated back home to Auckland. As my above post suggests, I am finding it hard going at the moment. I know from other Kiwis who spent considerable time in the UK then moved back to NZ that this is something that may take some time to get beyond. It is strange to find myself joining the cries of 'I miss M&S and Next and Debenhams and all that was familiar to me.....', but here I am (and I never considered myself materialistic at all!!).

Debs

i dont think this is just experienced by kiwis going back after being in the UK.

i went through the exact same thing after being in AUS for a year then coming back to the UK, took me ages to re adjust (talking over a year here) just missed the lifestyle of AUS the people to an extent,and the weather. Still you can only grow from such experiences.


I think these threads are great, i am at the point of my life where its going to go one of two ways, already got a morgage in place ready to buy a house here but this is being largely discounted now in favour of going to NZ in JAnuary (I am however devastated at the fact you can't have ferrets in NZ as they are seen as vermin well its difficult to get them anyway :wah .).

I like reading about members of the forum who have been to NZ and returned to their country of birth, gives you an accurate idea of what life in NZ will be like and consequently allow you to make a more informed descision. I thought moving to NZ is exactly what I wanted but now the time comes near I am not too sure anymore. Things seem to be conspiring to make us leave the UK and go to NZ, it feels like its the right thing to do and life seems to be pushing us that way however the question still remians how much of a risk is this move and can we live with the financial consequences if it doesn't work out. :)

I guess the fact me and my partner can get whv's gives us a lot more lee-way than the older immigrant who literally has to put everything on the line.Therefore, the financial costs wont be that high, but coming back to the uK with no money would not be nice.

Anyway i hope members keep posting their honest views of NZ and the reasons behind their return or doubts on the move, as it really allows the rest of us(well me anyway) still in the UK to compare our situations and to see if the move really is for us. nice1

Russ and jules :yes