[Jennie & Rob]

I am getting severe cold feet at the moment and one of the things I am finding hard is leaving everyone I know in the world. None of my friends or family are positive about us going and I am so scared that it will just be my husband, myself and two little ones in a new country. All my confidence is waning and the thought of having to build a whole new community of friends is so daunting. I know children will help me meet other parents but at the moment I feel like saying I just cannot do it. This situation is worsened for hassles with finally exchanging contracts on our house, trouble with accommodation in Wellington, etc.

How are migrants treated generally? Anyone who has done this - was it easy to make new friends? :(

[dave k]

If you find it easy to make new friends back in the UK, then you'll be fine over here. It depends on you, I think.
In my experience, and bear in mind I've only been here 6 months, I would say the Kiwis are a very friendly bunch indeed. Quite open & honest and accomodating. I've yet to make any really close friends, but I suspect I will do in the next few years.

But most of all.....don't worry about it! Just take the plunge & see!

:cheers

[wilson182]

In my personal experience, It was really easy to make friends. The kiwis are generally a really friendly bunch. And (at least the ones I have come into contact with) once they know your situation, they are more than happy to help in anyway they can.

Dont forget also, there will also be forum members in your neck of the woods :nice1

[AliJax]

I agree with both Wilson182 & Dave K, Linda & I havent made any really close friends - its like moving to the other side of the country in the uk or wherever, you call your folks back home, you mix with your neighbours (although ours are non-chattie types) talk about the differences between here and home.

Its just that you can't call in your moms or close friends for a quick chat or a moan!

On the plus since we've been here we've had 6 years worth of British Summer in the 3 months we've been here (OMG we've only been here 6 months its like we've slotted straight into a pack of cards)

[sarahw]

Well we've made some Kiwi friends, however, Ian actually has made a close friend at work - they get on like a house on fire! I'm glad because its made the transition for him really easy. They even car share the journey to work & back & go out regularly for drinks too.

I have made a lot of friends but mostly ex-pats (UK, US and various European countries from work - there are more ex-pats than Kiwis in the office). The Kiwis are really friendly & a lot of people have invited us over for coffee that we hardly knew - i.e. person that sold me my car, the estate agent who lives around the corner etc.

[veronica]

it does depend so much on you and your circumstances. If your little ones are school or nursery age it gives you a great opportunity to start meeting folks. Volunteer at the school or whatever and you will meet people, if you like something like pottery/sailing/whatever then look to see whats going on in your local area.
I also think there is great potential to set up 'co-op' groups in the forum once people get over here to help each other, both in skills and support and this shouldn't preclude you making friends locally either.
what area are you coming to.

[wayne]

When I lived in NZ last time (25 yrs ago) I made some good friends. , but I am looking foreward to meeting friends I have met through these forums as I have had pm's from loads of you good people and cant wait to meet up.
Kiwi's by their nature are very honest and dont beat about the bush like us poms do they will come straight out with it and call a spade a spade, this can be a bit disconcerting at first but its an honesty you will soon appreciate,
So if you see a fat pom on a blue Harley scooting round the Hibiscus coast in a few weeks time say Hi! :cool

[GeorgeM]

As a pom I've not experienced any real unfriendliness, apart from a few words when leaving the Westpac Stadium in Wellington after England had beaten the ABs in 2003, and then I'm not sure whether people were more offended by the England shirt I was wearing or the Canterbury hat I had on!

As with any move the end result is to a great extent in your own hands - the way in which you react to people will determine in many ways the way in which they relate to you. If a kiwi or an aussie in the UK spent their whole time slagging british society off and telling you what needed to be done to sort the place out they would find it difficult to make UK friends. The same will be true down here. Complain about the foods you can't get, how poor the media is, how there's much more to do in London etc etc and people could get bored and give up on you pretty quickly.

Without family and friends of 20, 30 or 40 years to call by or drop into we felt that we needed to make some contacts pretty quickly and took advantage of whatever we could do to get there - school things, music, sports, neighbours, workmates etc etc. Some worked, some didn't. We've been here almost three years and really are just beginning to establish a network of contacts. Remember that even if someone isn't 100% what you would see as a long term friend they may eventually turn into one, and if not you could still meet others through them in any case.

[Beach Kiwi]

Complain about the foods you can't get, how poor the media is, how there's much more to do in London etc etc and people could get bored and give up on you pretty quickly.


This is it in a nutshell.

If you want to live life as a Brit on 'permanent holiday' in New Zealand, then you're going to have problems being accepted as a fellow Kiwi, let alone as a friend. One thing Kiwis hate the most about immigrants is their unwillingness to assimilate into the Kiwi 'culture'. If you come here and spend most of your time 'reminiscing' about the old country, comparing it to your new country, 'huddling' with fellow ex-pats, then you're on a one way ticket to Isolationville.

If you're going to make New Zealand home you have to become a New Zealander.

[Diny]

My experience of the Kiwis is that they're pretty much like any other race. On the whole they're a friendly welcoming bunch. Yes they are very straight talking which can at first seem dreadfully rude, but that's just the way they are. I have to say a couple of the rudest most miserable people I've ever met in the world do happen to be Kiwis but you just have to accept the fact that people are people - wherever you are.

I think it's right to comment that if you're the kind of person who mixes well and makes friends here in the UK then you'll have no problems doing the same in NZ. Remember it's a change of country - not a change of personality.

You'll be fine. And if it's any consolation - we ALL have these wobbly moments. Here we are - 5 weeks away from leaving and yesterday was - by far - the worst day I've had. I think my severe downer was triggered by the fact that we loaded up the car with all the 'stuff' we're giving away and drove around delivering it. Everything kind of hit home, top that off with niggles with hubby about the right/wrong way to pack and then sprinkle a few thoughts of 'hell I'm going to miss my mum' over the top and there you have it ..... the best recipe for 'OH MY GOD'.

Veronica is right in what she says about setting up 'co-op' groups from the forum. As you know, us NW bunch meet regularly and we're a real support to each other, and there seems to be some good friendships developing too.

You'll be right girl - it's only natural to feel this way. To be honest, if you never had any negative thoughts I think it would be a matter of concern - it would be like you're not taking in the whole picture. It's no good spending every day thinking about how wonderful everything is going to be. I'm not suggesting you allow pesimism (sp) to take over - but a happy balance between positive & negative is essential ........ in my opinion anyway.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want to chat. believe me, I DO know what you're going through.

All the best.

Diny

[Carol]

hmmmmmm.........


I've tried to type an answer to this five times and I cant get the words right.

I honestly think this depend on your definition of friends.

For me - it means someone whom I could ring at 2am if I am having a crisis - who would come and help.
AND (more importantly) the reciprocal would work too.

In nine years I've not met a single kiwi I could ask to do that. Or would be asked to do that by.


Lots of folks (kiwis) are friendly - but if I am completely honest my closest friends here are Brits.

I know this is going to sound like I havent tried.........believe me I have.
But I really cant be honest with kiwis when I am having pangs of homesickness because they just dont want to know.
So I keep quiet and dont moan.

But it really doesn't make for a deep friendship.

"Mates"......who would go down the pub with you for a few hours.....yes...lots.

[eric_amanda]

If you want to live life as a Brit on 'permanent holiday' in New Zealand, then you're going to have problems being accepted as a fellow Kiwi, let alone as a friend. One thing Kiwis hate the most about immigrants is their unwillingness to assimilate into the Kiwi 'culture'. If you come here and spend most of your time 'reminiscing' about the old country, comparing it to your new country, 'huddling' with fellow ex-pats, then you're on a one way ticket to Isolationville.

If you're going to make New Zealand home you have to become a New Zealander.[/quote]

Beach kiwi, this is soooo true.

As a Brit I have always felt cross (particularly in the profession I worked in for 10 years) that immigrants arriving in England were handed out this that and the other, didn't talk the language and would not live as a Brit. Therefore when we moved here I knew it would be hypocritical to just want to carry on living as a Brit only in NZ, so I have wanted to embrace life and try and live as a kiwi. Its not easy and it is still early days, but we are trying, the advantage being at least we speak the same language although picking up the Maori terms that a slipped in here and there has proved difficult at times!!!

Like others have said we have not got very close friends here yet, we have only been here for 8 months but we do have lots of friends we socialise with both expats and kiwis. We have 3 preschoolers so in some respects it has been easy meeting new people although it has taken time and effort particularly from me who does not always make new friends that easily.

If you have preschool children then there is LOTS to do with them, so much so our weeks are very busy.

Kiwi's are generally very easy to get along with but I have found sometimes it is easier to just click with expats as you already have common ground!!

Amanda

[veronica]

Hey Carol, thats sad. We live next door to a lovely couple, Kiwi and Dutch. We had only owned the house a couple of weeks and met them a couple of times, but we hadn't moved in when it was broken into and we had broken glass in the hall. We went round and asked if we could borrow a vacuum cleaner (one of the things taken was the Dyson) and they both came round straight away and helped us clear up and then cooked a meal for us. They are lovely and I am fairly certain that if we needed their help whatever time they would be there. I know the reverse is true too.

I think that if you could get past the thought that the people you know here you couldn't phone, you might find if you did (although hope you never have the need) they would be glad to help. A lot of settling in a new place is to do with letting go, and I am not including family in that. I am lucky that I know wherever I am my mum and dad love me just as much.

We have been surprised by the different people who have kept in touch. Some we regarded as good friends we could call on any time haven't made any effort to keep up with us, (we send out updates to everyone each month) but others we knew to a lesser degree have been really supportive and replied to most of the updates.

I agree about the whinging too. whatever is said on the forum about the differences in food, driving and ways of doing things isn't something you discuss with other kiwis, just other expats, except planning (sorry all you planners) and the kiwis are the first to whinge about them, we just join in. :laugh

[sarahw]

Veronica,

I agree its been a bit of an eye opener as to who we regarded as our closest friends at home who haven't contacted us once & who has been in contact with us. People I would not have considered close friends have kept in touch & are coming out to our wedding in January.

On the other hand, people we'd really been close with & considered our best friends have really disappointed us. One of my friends is supposed to be a bridesmaid at my wedding next year - I hardly hear from her any more & despite her knowing I've got a deadline for ordering the dresses she's not sent one e-mail with comments about the dresses in the whole month that I've sent details - I've all but given up. I even gave her a webcam before we left (her husband is in IT networking so I know its not a technical problem!) its not even connected to her computer - still sat in its box.

I think it was all summed up with our leaving do - it was a particularly cold night between Xmas & New Year - only the hardy turned up. I'd been through a lot with my friends some had been through partners dying & divorces together etc. & some we'd been friends since we were kids - I considered I'd been a good friend & had been there for everyone over the years - oh our leaving party was also our engagement party. We hired a bar in Kingston which was mid-way between both sets of friends - Ian coming from South London. As the night rolled in & the party came closer nearly every one of them phoned me with phoney excuses why they couldn't come (one was actually honest & said she couldn't be bothered!!!). All of Ian's friends (and aquaintances) turned up & only 2 of my friends made it. It made it so easy to come out here I can tell you.

I'm really sorry to let all that out on this post - its been something I haven't really come to terms with that my best friends didn't even come to say goodbye or to congratulate us on getting engaged. Its made me really careful when making friends here. I have taken it to heart & it has made me feel very alone & the first few days here were very hard for me but I'm not going to let it drag me down.

Having said that I have made a good friend here from the forum & she feels like a friend from home & we see each other nearly weekly & very kindly she came & helped me choose a wedding dress. :smile

Also - the Kiwi friend that Ian has made - its only been 3 months but he is already the kind of friend you could call in the middle of the night.

[veronica]

People are surprising aren't they. Sorry that you have had that let down but don't let it knock you too far back. there's loads of good people about too, wherever you are.
As I said in the earlier part of this post a lot of the trick of making new friends is to get out and meet people. Most people are friendly, not many of them bite. I haven't met any anti Brit feelings here at all.

[Diny]

Sarah

I can't imagine how you must have felt when you got so many people ringing up to say they wouldn't be coming to your party. As for the person who said they couldn't be bothered ...... well - what can I say.

If you still haven't heard from your friend who's due to be your bridesmaid I think I'd be rather inclined to send her one last e-mail telling her that her services are no longer required thank you very much.

Discussions like this are always of great interest to me. We are all lead to believe that natives of certain countries all fall into neat little
'personality boxes'. Most of these 'traditional perceptions' are not only way off mark, they're also downright insulting. For instance:

The Irish are portrayed as thick and the Japanese as cruel. The Italians are hailed as cowards and the Amercans as brash, plastic and trigger happy. The Scottish have a reputation of being tight with money, The Aussies are meant to be the friendliest people on the planet and as for us English - well how long have you got?

The truth of the matter is that every nationality will be made up of an assortment of good and bad, friendly and hostile, rich and poor, fat and thin, tall and short, happy and sad, generous and mean, loud and quiet ... the list is endless. To say that an entire nation shares the same personality is abit much really.

In our school one of the rules is 'treat others as you would wish them to treat you' ...... I couldn't agree more. And remember .....

Water will always find it's own level.

Diny

[ruthyroo]

Remember it's a change of country - not a change of personality.


So true Diny - something we only realised after coming out here (in good and bad ways)

Re. making friends. I agree with the majority of the above, the kiwis are very friendly, we've had countless invites to dinner etc, but I am yet to make any friends that are really close. And TBH that suits me for the moment - I really enjoy the casual acquaintances that we have here, fun while we see them but not overly involved in each others lives. And as we don't knwo how long we will be around, so maybe I am being cautious of investing in people that we won't be near in a couple of years. Mr Rr has made more close friends than I have - but he is a teacher and they have to have good drinking buddies to commiserate with down the RSA of a Friday evening!

We got good advice from the landlady in the first motel we stayed in - she said to say yes to every invitation you get for the first 6 months - however bizarre it might seem (within reason - nothing illegal!) and try out new things and new people. Many of the friends we have made out here are considerably older than we are, which is a new thing for us. Be open-minded, and don' t shut people out becuase they don't fit neatly into your 'appropriate friend type' image!

[Bubbles]

Yes,
Never a truer word said.

[eric_amanda]

In our experiences so far IMO its the Brits that bite and have all the social hangups...not all of them, before any of the good uns read this just a couple we have come into contact with particularly those related with Eric's work.

Kiwis are genreally the easy ones to get on with with little or no social hang ups and wanting to put everybody into their little social class!

Sarah, I know where your coming from with Best Friends letting you down. I had a neighbour who was a best friend, she was all in on our early plans to move to NZ and was even inerested in coming herself, however we fell out over something to do with children which hurt me considerably at a time when I needed her support more than ever. (I had 3 children under 3, a baby 3 months old, could quite easily have been pushed into Post Natel Depression because of her actions and we emigrated 3 months later. If it hadn't been for Eric pulling me through I am not sure what would have happened) To this day I still believe that she made a mountain out of a mole hill all because of jealousy. As a result I have promised myself that I will be more guarded about who I choose as friends.

Amanda

[dave k]

I'm not sure I can agree completely with the observation that if you talk or "reminisce" about the UK to a Kiwi , or compare things about the 2 countries, they will find it tiresome or regard you as somehow failing to integrate.
It is possible to have a lively & stimulating discussion about the many similarities & differences without whinging guys!
It doesn't have to take place from a standpoint of "We do such & such a thing in the UK and it's far superior to what you guys do here" - it's just an endlessly fascinating subject for me, and I can't see why anyone could fail to be interested in how these people across the other side of the planet ( whose ancestors only a couple of hundred years ago were largely UK citizens themselves) have changed & gone down their own unique road.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for embracing the Kiwi way of life...I never regarded myself as a typical Brit anyway...but flicking through a few pages of Michael King's book, walking barefoot to the shops, saying "g'day" and eating kumara isn't going to suddenly transform me into a Kiwi.

[GeorgeM]

I'm not sure I can agree completely with the observation that if you talk or "reminisce" about the UK to a Kiwi , or compare things about the 2 countries, they will find it tiresome or regard you as somehow failing to integrate.
It is possible to have a lively & stimulating discussion about the many similarities & differences without whinging guys!
It doesn't have to take place from a standpoint of "We do such & such a thing in the UK and it's far superior to what you guys do here" - it's just an endlessly fascinating subject for me, and I can't see why anyone could fail to be interested in how these people across the other side of the planet ( whose ancestors only a couple of hundred years ago were largely UK citizens themselves) have changed & gone down their own unique road.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for embracing the Kiwi way of life...I never regarded myself as a typical Brit anyway...but flicking through a few pages of Michael King's book, walking barefoot to the shops, saying "g'day" and eating kumara isn't going to suddenly transform me into a Kiwi.

You're dead right, Dave.

As always, it's not what you say it's the way that you say it, and you're going to bore people / get their backs up if you're constantly going on about your current situation in a negative manner. But the same would be true if you were still living 'back home', wherever that may be. No one likes a constant whinger regardless of whether they're a native or a newcomer.

But then everyone has the right to say what they don't like about the society that they live in, and to compare aspects of it unfavourably to other places they know. In fact one of the indicators that you've really arrived and settled in, IMO, is when some things about the place drive you mad...

If you've chosen to come into a society as an outsider and the majority of what you say is negative then the questions will inevitably be asked - implicitly or explicity - as to why you came here in the first place and why you don't go 'home'. If you're born into a situation it's a different kettle of fish - you didn't ask to be here.

As for not losing the traits of your origins it's inevitable that over time you end up as neither one thing or another, but an amalgam of all of your pasts and the present. As a brit in NZ this isn't a problem since the vast majority of NZers have a UK heritage and much of the structure of society reflects this. Asians may have a harder time - when they hang on to bits of their past, speak in their own language and so on it's often interpreted as an unwillingness to integrate.

[Diny]

but flicking through a few pages of Michael King's book, walking barefoot to the shops, saying "g'day" and eating kumara isn't going to suddenly transform me into a Kiwi.


This is so true !!!!!!

I've had a very close relationship with NZ for the last 16 years, have a Kiwi husband, 2 dual nationality (pending) kids, have made numerous visits and obviously have one half of our family over there. I can't wait to get there (5 weeks on Saturday) and start off our new life there with so many things that have become very familiar - almost 2nd nature - to me over the years. However, I will always be a Brit living abroad.

No matter how well a person integrates and embraces their new surroundings and life, there's always going to be comparisons between the old and the new. These aren't moans or put downs, they're simply observations. Like George said, it's not what you say it's how you say it. I've always found that I'm asked lots of questions about home. People are interested to know. If you knock everything about NZ and praise everything about 'back home' you're going to soon find that you're talking to yourself. If you knock everything about home and praise everything NZ - you're going to appear nothing more than sycophantic. As with all things in life - striking a happy, informed medium whilst applying a good measure of diplomacy is probably the best way to go.

I still hold the opinion that Kiwis are no different to any other 'race', (in as much as you're going to meet some absolutely brilliant ones - and you're going to meet some complete prats too).

Diny

[Danpoll]

I believe that going into a country a whinging or even expressing a negative vibe then its like walking in someones house and telling that paint colours dont work and its messy, what would their reaction be. I belive we naturally go defensive of our land, if some immigrant came up to me in the UK and started moan about blair and the UK then I would probably say well if you dont like it clear off.

much like a kiwi would probably say or think to me.

though if your praise up NZ and run down UK in your conversations does that class you as a whinging pom.

Dan

[wilson182]

Nah, a truthfull one :mrgreen:

[Carol]

probably Dan....... ;)


If I am to be 100% honest - I now ONLY go about making friends with people I like.
And I couldnt give a flying fig as to what their nationality is.

I know I DID try very hard when I first got here to adapt to the kiwi way of life - and I have. (Despite the gravy thing!! ;) )

And to make as many kiwi friends as possible - and I have.

But.......

All of that - over the last nine years - was my "attempts to integrate".

I've been there done that and got the T-Shirt.

Since I turned 40 ........

I have decided that life is far too short to worry about what other people are thinking.
So...

If I want to moan I will. ;)
If I want to shout from the mountains that New Zealand is THE place I want to bring my kids up I will. :mrgreen:
If I want to go out and have a good time with my friends I will. :cheers
And if they all happen to be Brits then so be it. :clap


And.....
If I really want to go back to the UK I will........but only if it is the best choice for us all at the moment.
(Which I really dont believe it is). :no



GOsh.....vent OVER (sorry!!!!!)
:oops: :oops: :oops:

[Diny]

..... and what a splendid vent it was !!!

Dead right about the 'since I turned 40' thing ...... it's like some hidden hand drags you to the sidelines and teaches you how to put things into perspective isn't it.

If I come across somebody who doesn't exactly 'float my boat' I just leave them be - there's folks out there who I will like more and who will like me more. Life's too short for worrying about trivial things...(like whether people think I'm not a 'true new Kiwi' because I like UK gravy granules :mrgreen: :laugh :mrgreen: :laugh :mrgreen: ).

What one person wants to hear is what another person doesn't want to hear. It's what makes life interesting. If somebody says something you agree with you automatically regard them as friendly and easy to get on with. If somebody has complete opposite views to your own then we consider them to be arguementative and maybe a touch hostile. It's human nature.

Going back to the origin of this thread - I can't imagine anybody would be faced with blatant hostility in NZ just because of the fact they come from the UK. But on the other hand, I can't imagine us coming into contact with only the stereotypical, friendly, happy, warm and welcoming Kiwi. The law of averages states that you're going to come across the occasional Kiwi ar****le.

Just be yourself and allow others to be themselves.

Diny

[foolsgold99]

Not normally a guy to quote the bible, esp not on Friday morning, but a story in it seems to fit the bill here. The town names may be wrong, but the moral remains the same.

One day St Paul was walking from Jerusalam to Gaza, and he meets a man going the other way, they stop to chat. The traveller asks Paul, what the people are like in Jerusalam, he responds by asking what the people are like in Gaza, the traveller says. "oh the people in Gaza are great, everyone is very friendly". St Paul replies, "that's good, you'll find the people in Jersulam are the same, everyone is really nice".

Later that day, he meets another traveller, going the same way as the first one, who asks him the same question. Paul again replies by asking him what the people are like in Gaza. This one says, "Oh Gaza, it's a dreadful place, it's full of nasty people, I'm moving to Jersulam to get away from them". St Paul replies "Oh I'm sorry, I think you'll find the people in Jerusalam are just as bad".

I think moving to NZ from where ever the same will hold true.

[Anita & Marco]

I'm not very familiar with the bible, but the words you have written are so true in my opinion. Wherever you go, you can never get rid of yourself. When you're not happy with yourself it useless settling anywhere else because you want to find happiness. You'll never find it.
And so my quote is: LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT
Anita

[dave k]

Not normally a guy to quote the bible, esp not on Friday morning, but a story in it seems to fit the bill here. The town names may be wrong, but the moral remains the same.

One day St Paul was walking from Jerusalam to Gaza, and he meets a man going the other way, they stop to chat. The traveller asks Paul, what the people are like in Jerusalam, he responds by asking what the people are like in Gaza, the traveller says. "oh the people in Gaza are great, everyone is very friendly". St Paul replies, "that's good, you'll find the people in Jersulam are the same, everyone is really nice".

Later that day, he meets another traveller, going the same way as the first one, who asks him the same question. Paul again replies by asking him what the people are like in Gaza. This one says, "Oh Gaza, it's a dreadful place, it's full of nasty people, I'm moving to Jersulam to get away from them". St Paul replies "Oh I'm sorry, I think you'll find the people in Jerusalam are just as bad".

I think moving to NZ from where ever the same will hold true.


Spot on.



The funny thing is that the first time I read this story, it was quoted as being a Chinese priest meeting the traveller.
I never knew the same story was in the Bible too.

[Diny]

I am a firm atheist but I love that story. Spot on !!!!

:nice1

When you're not happy with yourself it useless settling anywhere else because you want to find happiness. You'll never find it.


Today must be the day for 'hit the nail on the head' quotes. Well said Anita.

Diny