[Kanga]

and only 25% of Kiwi kids age 12 can swim 200m.

I love swimming- I taught both my kids to swim and have decided to go for it and get the AustSwim while here because having read the stats I think NZ needs all the swim teachers (and teachers who can teach swimming) they can get!

Why do you think these statistics are so depressing?

[Kanga]

Oh dear- that doesn't read right! I meant why are the stats so dire/awful, not questioning whether they are awful, iyswim.

[JandM]

only 25% of Kiwi kids age 12 can swim 200mI'm amazed to hear this - my Kiwi grandchildren can do this already, having started learning before their first birthdays, as had their older cousins also in NZ, and I'd assumed that this was part of the general culture. It really needs to be, given the easy access to beaches and all the water sports available. Go for it!

[mcacmartin]

That makes me sad....for us, living on an island already (we live on Vancouver Island in Canada), swimming was a MUST. We're always near water in some capacity. And when we get there, it will continue.

[peebles16]

I think historically most kids accessed swimming through their schools and now not so many schools have swimming pools - thankfully my son's school does :yes Sadly the stats on child drownings make pretty dire reading too :(

Karenx

[M-Squared]

My daughter's school has to build a new classroom and the school is (this amazes me, I'm not used to this kind of consultation) asking parents where they should put it! There are 4 possibilities, but one of them involves demolishing the swimming pool. In term 1, every child from year 2 and on is chucked in for about 30 minutes, 4 days a week. My daughter's swimming improved fantastically over that term! The classes she goes to at the council-run pools have changed tack recently. They're not concentrating on learning the different strokes, they're concentrating a lot more on survival, making them stronger swimmers, even if their technique isn't the best. Fantastic idea, one which I wholeheartedly condone. Now to hope they don't tear down the pool, there aren't many schools around here that still have pools, I think they're vital!

41 is 41 too many, extremely sad statistics. :(

[IanW99]

and only 25% of Kiwi kids age 12 can swim 200m.

I love swimming- I taught both my kids to swim and have decided to go for it and get the AustSwim while here because having read the stats I think NZ needs all the swim teachers (and teachers who can teach swimming) they can get!

Why do you think these statistics are so depressing?

The statistics I can find state "In 2008, just one in five 10-year-olds can swim 200m" which is actually even worse.

For anyone interested this is the Annual Drowning Report 2008 (pdf) (http://www.watersafety.org.nz/pdfs/Annual_Drowning_Report_2008.pdf) for NZ.

A couple of other facts:-

Average of 14 deaths per year from swimming.
Only Canada and New Zealand have more adults drowning than children.

Ian

[BigRod]

I feel saddened by the numbers. Coming from an Island country myself (England) I have always thought it extremely important that everyone should swim, so I put into practice what I believe; my son is 6 months old now, and I've been taking him swimming weekly since he was 4 1/2 months.

OK so right now I'm just giving him water confidence, but as he matures I'll teach him to swim strongly. I really do believe that this is one of lifes essentials that must start at home, and not just left to school to teach.

Just my $0.02.

Rod

[Sam B]

All the drownings that I have heard about on the news this year would not have been changed by people being stronger swimmers. They seem to be more down to circumstances such as storms at sea, fishermen swept off rock whilst fishing, rip tides, or very young children accidentally getting into pool areas. I'm not sure it's just down to children and adults being poor swimmers.

[L00pback]

41 to many if they could have been prevented.

Learning to swim (at any age) is extremely important and a great way of keeping fit - he says sat on a sofa, on a diet, thinking about doing some exercise but never getting around to it.

Kids should do as much as possible in school with their friends and yes I agree I'm with M-Squared that its a great idea to learn to survive and leave stroke technique until later - although improved stroke technique can make swimming a lot more efficient and therefore easier.

Alan

[bobo]

I feel saddened by the numbers. Coming from an Island country myself (England)


No its not..

[BigRod]

No its not..

... all depends on whether you think that that part known as 'Scotland' and 'Wales' is in Greater England :) :exit

[Kanga]

It would be interesting to know 'how' those people are drowning- I'll see if I can find anything out and I'll find the source for the stats I quoted too- sloppy not to have :o

WRT people drowning in rips, I think arguably poor swimming ability could play a huge factor, given it tends to be people panicing and trying to swim against it and tiring that results in them dying, not the actual rip, which doesn't push you under and usually only takes you out a couple of hundred metres at most, but I don't know- would be interesting to know.

[Kanga]

I can't find where I originally got the statistic from- it was running along the top of a site, when I was looking into the transferability of AustSwim to NZ. I have found the very interesting 'Annual Drowning Report 2008' (http://www.watersafety.org.nz/pdfs/Annual_Drowning_Report_2008.pdf) (click the blue writing for the report) from Water Safety NZ, which makes for very interesting reading. A few things have sprung out at me form scanning it;


There were 14 deaths by drowning reported for people who were swimming in 2008. and also that the report states "Swimming continues as the single recreational activity with the highest drowning toll"

Drowning happens at all ages.

Both Maori and Pacific Peoples are over represented in the drowning toll statistics- in 2008 Maori drownings represented 19% of the total drownings (but are 15% of the population) and Pacific Peoples represented 9% (but are 7% of the population. They do not that the % of Maori drownings had reduced from the previous 5 years.

76% of drowning victims in 2008 were male!!!

The West Coast, with the highest drowning deaths per capita, has a drowning deaths per capita over three times that of the area with the second most drowning deaths per capita, which is insane!!

In 2008 there were 16 drownings from boats- powered, non-powered and sailing.


Makes for grim reading. I'd like to see stats on how many of those recreational drownings included weak and poor swimmers.

ETA: too tired tonight (just back from a weekend in Sydney!) but there's more weighty reading on ACCs Drowning Prevention Strategy page that looks possibly interesting.

[IanW99]

...
I have found the very interesting 'Annual Drowning Report 2008' (http://www.watersafety.org.nz/pdfs/Annual_Drowning_Report_2008.pdf) (click the blue writing for the report) from Water Safety NZ, which makes for very interesting reading. A few things have sprung out at me form scanning it;
...


Glad you found the report interesting :)

Ian

[Kanga]

Glad you found the report interesting :)

Ian

Oh my goodness Ian- I was soooo tired last night (back from long weekend away) that I only properly read the last post on the thread!! I'm really embarrassed now :o :o :o

I promise not to make a habit of it!

[Kanga]

My husband is now laughing at me :o

[Ana&Steve]

WRT people drowning in rips, I think arguably poor swimming ability could play a huge factor, given it tends to be people panicing and trying to swim against it and tiring that results in them dying, not the actual rip, which doesn't push you under and usually only takes you out a couple of hundred metres at most, but I don't know- would be interesting to know.I wonder if under-tows are a factor...I was caught in one once and I nearly drowned. As it was near the shore and there were a lot of waves, I tumbled as I was pulled under. The only thing that saved me was that my face hit the bottom and I was able to determine which way was up and I pushed off the floor as hard as I could.:eek:

[Kanga]

I wonder if under-tows are a factor...I was caught in one once and I nearly drowned. As it was near the shore and there were a lot of waves, I tumbled as I was pulled under. The only thing that saved me was that my face hit the bottom and I was able to determine which way was up and I pushed off the floor as hard as I could.:eek:

It would be interesting to know wouldn't it? The current at all our local beaches varies from medium to ridiculously strong and almost all the beaches have permanant rips, not to mention flash rips etc. My partner, a strong, confident sea swimmer, was body boarding (in the true sense- no board) and got droped and tumbled by a huge wave but because they were coming in so fast the next pinned him under. I love the ocean though and I think not living next to it will be a sacrifice. Under current sounds very scary!!

[Sam B]

Anecdotally the drownings that I hear about on the news here seem to be more about reckless fishing off rocks and stupid boating accidents, as well as genuine boating accidents, as well as swimming pools and young kids, and freaks like flash floods in streams and gulleys etc.

[Kanga]

Kiwis do seem to have an interesting sense of risk assessment. The only couple I recall from Hawkes Bay when I lived there were a young woman who was drunk and took a swim under the pool blanket on her own in the dark and a kid off notorius Napier beach. There was the near drowning of the couple of men who got washed far out to sea in the fishing dinghy- neither of them could swim or had any means of communicating or safety stuff on board at all. Mental really. I guess the two actual drowning there probably were unaffected by whether the person could swim or not, so that certainly concurs with your observations.

[JandM]

Re: risk assessment. I guess you can't legislate for idiots - it wouldn't be fair to the rest of us to restrict us like you'd need to to save certain people from themselves. (Although increasingly, that seems to be what the UK government are trying to do.)

[Ramo]

Kiwis do seem to have an interesting sense of risk assessment. The only couple I recall from Hawkes Bay when I lived there were a young woman who was drunk and took a swim under the pool blanket on her own in the dark and a kid off notorius Napier beach. There was the near drowning of the couple of men who got washed far out to sea in the fishing dinghy- neither of them could swim or had any means of communicating or safety stuff on board at all. Mental really. I guess the two actual drowning there probably were unaffected by whether the person could swim or not, so that certainly concurs with your observations.

Sounds like Darwinism is doing it's thing in NZ then...

But more seriously - are the numbers between the UK and NZ comparable? I mean I lived in the UK (though not near the coast to be fair), but not many people I know actually swam in the sea - mostly because it was blummin freezing. Seems that many more people in NZ swim in the sea than in back in Blighty, so it's not surprising that numbers could be higher as a proportion of the population.

[Kanga]

Re: risk assessment. I guess you can't legislate for idiots - it wouldn't be fair to the rest of us to restrict us like you'd need to to save certain people from themselves. (Although increasingly, that seems to be what the UK government are trying to do.)

I agree! I don't want to live in an overly H&S conscious culture, although I think sometimes NZ perhaps goes a little far in the other direction, just sometimes.

If being stronger swimmers could have saved some of those people though I think that's worth looking at and the fact that so few 12 year olds can swim properly in a culture that (rightly) considers the beach and river a birthright suggests there's a problem there.

And anyway, why wouldn't you want to be able to swim?? I love swimming- I forget I love swimming for weeks on end and get cranky and low and then I start swimming again and I remember how I love it.

[James 1077]

I'm very surprised by the statistics on how many children can't swim well in NZ - it definitely doesn't fit in with my experiences of the number of kids swimming at beaches here!

The drowning stats are always going to be high though - this is partially as life is very much based around the water, partially due to the higher amount of risk taking here, and also the general dangerous nature of the water compared to other countries.

You hear on the news of people drowning after being swept off rocks whilst fishing, being pulled out to sea by rips (normally from fighting the rip - rather than swimming along it) and some drownings due to people not being careful in boats.

A large amount of how to prevent those drownings is education rather than becoming a stronger swimmer.