[garyanimal]

Well this is a very difficult. We are going back and taking a huge loss . The reasons are many. We love NZ as a place to visit ,but living here is dull beyond belief .Standards are low and schools are not challenging (both teachers , I no longer teach). People have no zest. The switched of nature is frustrating. Earnings are pathetic. Far to many people here are in poverty. Racism is worse than Uk. We visited 8 times over 12 yrs and still the true nature of the place eluded us. My best friend is a kiwi that lives in Holland. He said he would rather die than come back here and thought we were mad for coming here.
I love the weather and the coast line . But really what else is there. No wonder the kids are all on drugs and topping themselves. I wanted to do the five yrs and get the passport. Oh well.
I was in the center of Auckland last night and a woman came up to me and said "do you want a good time" I said "yes" . she gave me a ticket to Australia.

[stellachiara]

Did you teach English?

[dusk]

Hello, sorry to hear it hasn't worked out for you and your family.

I think it's true to say that people will have different expectations and experiences and that not everyone will find the slower pace a problem.

Also it's worth pointing out that not every job has a pitiful salary. Some jobs even pay the same (or more) than equivalent roles in the UK, which certainly helps make NZ look like a good option for some people (myself included) or people who have enough equity to live with a very small or no mortgage at all have less of a struggle with their finances (sadly I'm not in this enviable position! :))

I'm not trying to negate your (clearly miserable) experience, I'm just trying to add a little balance for people reading the thread :)

Best of luck with whatever the future holds for you.

[JandM]

Good luck with your plans.

[Arwen]

No wonder the kids are all on drugs and topping themselves.

I'm sorry things are not to your liking here, and I hope you find happiness elsewhere, but personally I think the extract from your quote above was REALLY uncalled for!!!!! :(

[Scotty69]

You don't like it some don't and some do good luck to you what ever you decide to do BUT THIS PART YOU WROTE kids are all on drugs and topping themselves.
IS the main reason we left the UK as it is a very big thing there, I don't want to get into a political discussion here are you aware DRUGS are and issue WORLD WIDE.

We have only been here 6 months now and loving it I don't miss seeing young kids on drugs every 5 minutes walk the way I did in the UK or hearing about kids killing themselfs due bulling or the pressure of doing well in exams OR hearing that a child has disappeared, or seeing teenage girls going to school with there skirts up there back side and all done up in make up looking like a street hooker.

I know this all goes on everywhere but I'm sure it is not as bad here as you have made it out to be.
You are well out of line with the drugs comment.

Natasha

[garyanimal]

Maths not English. As for kids being on drugs and topping themselves its is a very big problem here. Drug abuse and teenage suicides are in the top three for the world. parents may like it but the teens are bored here. It is cultural dead zone

[Arwen]

You are obviously not a teen here in NZ, so what gives you the right to make such a sweeping generalisation???? I know a lot of teens here who are actively involved in many clubs/sports etc and none of them appear to me as if they are likely to take their own life any day soon!!!!!

[Scotty69]

Maths not English. As for kids being on drugs and topping themselves its is a very big problem here. Drug abuse and teenage suicides are in the top three for the world. parents may like it but the teens are bored here. It is cultural dead zone


You must have lived a very sheltered life in the UK, it may say top 3 in the list but it is not anywhere near as the UK.
I come from a council scheme in Glasgow and have lived in London and seen a lot worse than I'll ever see here.
Have you ever seen teenage mothers out walking high as a kite with there wee baby's and have you ever dealt with drug addiction baby's this is also because of a cultural dead zone as there is nothing out there for them ITS NOT JUST HERE IT HAPPENS.
Believe me here is no way as bad as the UK or the US.

Like Arwen has said above I have yet to see a bored teenager here because there is a lot here for them to do.

People like you get me so annoyed.


Natasha

[dharder]

You must have lived a very sheltered life in the UK, it may say top 3 in the list but it is not anywhere near as the UK.

The teenage suicide (among boys) rate is four times that of the UK. New Zealand has one of the highest rates of suicides in a number of age groups.

There are some studies trying to figure out why this is, and people have different ideas, though few solutions.

Obviously, 'they are all topping themselves' is indeed a sweeping statement, but they are 'topping themselves' at a much, much higher rate than they are anywhere else in the developed world. This may or may not go with what forumites have seen in their everyday lives, but the issue is definitely there.

I haven't looked at the drug use, I presume that is a universal thing. But I found the suicide statistics rather worrying.

Daniela

[mylesdw]

My experience backs up the figures that Daniela quotes. In my small social circle I have come across two families that have lost teenage boys to suicide.

Back to the OP I have to ask what are those things that you miss from the UK and that are not available in the NZ, the things that make it so dull here? I'm genuinely very interested.

[Kanga]

I often wonder if the equity people bring over from the UK give them a huge leg up the socio-economic ladder so they then live in far 'better' (over simplification I know) suburbs and their kids attend 'better' schools etc so they then live a 'better' life in NZ. There's nothing wrong with that at all but NZ has as many and arguably more problems born of poverty than the UK per capita, but being a low density population it's easier to buy yourself somewhere where you don't experience it much. Again, there's nothing wrong with that but the teen suicide rate and drug problems in NZ are frankly horrific. We lived in Central Hawkes Bay, which I think has one of the worst teen suicide rates in NZ, which is really saying something and yet it never worried me for *my* kids.

My partner worked in mental health and so we had friends working in the same field and between them they experienced enough of the harrowing end of NZ to know that all the problems people claim they've 'escaped' from the UK are alive and well in NZ, but with a little hard cash you ought to be able to live relatively unaffected.

[dharder]

I often wonder if the equity people bring over from the UK give them a huge leg up the socio-economic ladder so they then live in far 'better' (over simplification I know) suburbs and their kids attend 'better' schools etc so they then live a 'better' life in NZ.

Absolutely. I keep repeating myself, but I suggest a trip through Point England/Glen Innes in Auckland will quickly ruin the illusion that it can't be as bad as in the UK (and worse). Of course I am not saying it is really bad everywhere, but I do think that due to the fact that socio-economically, we are a pretty homogenous group here on the forum, our outlook may be slightly skewed towards the 'better' areas.

I also think that the way poverty and its consequences (crime, ill health, lower education, higher unemployment) affect us varies, but I'm not sure we're doing anyone any favours by pretending this doesn't exist. Even if one only has daughters and therefore the rate of suicide among boys isn't a very personal problem, it is still a probelm out there.

Daniela

[Arwen]

I often wonder if the equity people bring over from the UK give them a huge leg up the socio-economic ladder so they then live in far 'better' (over simplification I know) suburbs and their kids attend 'better' schools etc so they then live a 'better' life in NZ.

Kanga, I agree with your post to a point. We did bring over our hard earned equity from the UK and have managed to resume a lifestyle similar to the one we had before, (ok maybe slightly better in that we now have more land for farming), and it is a fact that we are living in an area where these problems are not as prevalent.

However, I was certainly not born with a 'silver spoon' in my mouth. :no I was raised in poverty in London by my very young parents who were addicted to hard drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately my mother died when I was 10 years old from a heroin overdose. The cops just recorded her death as 'another junkie suicide'. Poverty wasn't the problem, the addiction itself was. Unfortunately, she always found the money to buy the drugs. :(

The point I am trying to make is that poverty is not necessarily a precursor to suicide. There are a myriad of reasons why teenagers (especially boys) feel compelled to end their lives and I don't believe it has anything to do with the remark garyanimal made about them being bored out of their skulls!!!

Teenagers can be very 'fatalistic' and are very quick to copy the pop culture of the times, which unfortunately, is currently dominated by the hip hop culture, which views teenage violence and death honourable. :( Also, if you look at the psychological studies carried out by Erikson and Freud, teenagers and young adolecents are at a 'finding their space in society/whole wide world' stage of development, which can cause much anguish.

Depression is also another significant factor. As many people know, depression can strike anyone regardless of age or socio-economic status. Again I speak from experience as I suffered from bi-polar disorder last year and many people would look at my situation and say "how come she's depressed, she has it so good compared to others'. I agree, I am lucky, but depression is not about being 'fed up with your lot' it's a physiological and psychological problem over which you have no control.

I just felt I needed to make these points to explain why I was so appalled at garyanimals statement in his OP. I felt he was using the issue of teen suicide to justify his utter dislike of New Zealand in general.

[stellachiara]

It is rather bizarre to see New Zealand lodged there with all the former Soviet States in terms of young male suicides on Nationmaster.com. However, those numbers are from 1994. According to the University of Canterbury: "Rates have reduced by 50% in less than 10 years, from 43.9 per 100,000 in 1995 to 21.9 per 100,000 in 2003."

It looks like many advanced countries were worried about high suicide rates around 1999. A lot of them implemented teen suicide prevention programs, and most seemed to eventually show a significant drop. I think the US is about 12 per 100,000 for young men, and the UK is 8.5 per 100,000. So, 21.9 per 100,000 is not good, but it is an improvement.

For overall suicides, the latest figures put New Zealand smack in between Denmark and Sweden, and substantially below Switzerland and France. However, the rate is twice that of the UK, and just a few points higher than the US.

For whatever it's worth!

[dharder]

The point I am trying to make is that poverty is not necessarily a precursor to suicide. There are a myriad of reasons why teenagers (especially boys) feel compelled to end their lives and I don't believe it has anything to do with the remark garyanimal made about them being bored out of their skulls!!!

Of course not everyone born in poverty committs suicide. But it is a contributing factor. And of course not everyone who is poor becomes depressed, but it contributes...

The reasons you list of why teenagers kill themselves certainly all contribute, but they do so in every country, not just New Zealand. There is not explanation in those reasons why four times as many NZ young men think they need to end their lives than their UK counterparts.

Personally, I find indeed merit in looking for NZ specific reasons. There have to be some, otherwise it wouldn't be a bigger problem than in other countries. I'm not saying I know what the reasons are, nor would I think that the suicide rate in itself would for me be a reason to leave the country. But it could be indicative of other issues, which might need to be addressed rather than denied.

There have been some suggestions of why it is worse here, and there are indeed relations between race, economical state and the suicide rates (in other words, most of the young people killing themselves are not white and middle class). Also some reasons of why it is worse among men than women, and those suggestions make perfect sense to me within the NZ society.

Daniela

[Arwen]

Of course not everyone born in poverty committs suicide. But it is a contributing factor. And of course not everyone who is poor becomes depressed, but it contributes...

The reasons you list of why teenagers kill themselves certainly all contribute, but they do so in every country, not just New Zealand. There is not explanation in those reasons why four times as many NZ young men think they need to end their lives than their UK counterparts.

Personally, I find indeed merit in looking for NZ specific reasons. There have to be some, otherwise it wouldn't be a bigger problem than in other countries. I'm not saying I know what the reasons are, nor would I think that the suicide rate in itself would for me be a reason to leave the country. But it could be indicative of other issues, which might need to be addressed rather than denied.

There have been some suggestions of why it is worse here, and there are indeed relations between race, economical state and the suicide rates (in other words, most of the young people killing themselves are not white and middle class). Also some reasons of why it is worse among men than women, and those suggestions make perfect sense to me within the NZ society.

Daniela

My point was to outline that there are many contributing factors, not just that 'NZ is a cultural dead zone' as the OP stated.

This is quite a good web link:

http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/116-1175/460/

It states that there is now no difference in ethnicity for male suicide here in NZ.

I agree you do have to take areas of NZ into consideration, every possibility needs to be looked at and analysed. I don't have all the answers, I was just relating some personal experiences.

It is a fact that NZ has high levels of depression. Like I said above, this is not just triggered by psychological factors but by physiological factors too. Maybe New Zealander's are more genetically prone to depression?? Who knows, it might be worth looking at????

[Kanga]

Kanga, I agree with your post to a point. We did bring over our hard earned equity from the UK and have managed to resume a lifestyle similar to the one we had before, (ok maybe slightly better in that we now have more land for farming), and it is a fact that we are living in an area where these problems are not as prevalent.

However, I was certainly not born with a 'silver spoon' in my mouth. :no

Just for the record I in no way meant to imply that equity brought over from the UK wasn't hard earned by anyone, not at all, and I apologise if that's how I sounded, but it sure wasn't what I meant!

[Kanga]

I can't help but to feel that NZ's 'end of the world' feel and all the accompanying isolation that so many of us seek in coming here can seriously add to a depressed person's feelings of hopelessness.

[Arwen]

Just for the record I in no way meant to imply that equity brought over from the UK wasn't hard earned by anyone, not at all, and I apologise if that's how I sounded, but it sure wasn't what I meant!

Oh Kanga, I know that's not what you meant hun. :laugh I'm sorry, I'm just getting a little upset by the topic of this thread and my words are just tumbling out!!! ;)

[Arwen]

I can't help but to feel that NZ's 'end of the world' feel and all the accompanying isolation that so many of us seek in coming here can seriously add to a depressed person's feelings of hopelessness.

I think you have a valid point there Kanga. I thought I was as tough as nails and could cope with everything on my own, but isolating myself like that did not help and triggered off the depression I'm already prone to.

I guess humans need humans. :)

[Tesall]

Well this is a very difficult. We are going back and taking a huge loss . The reasons are many. We love NZ as a place to visit ,but living here is dull beyond belief .Standards are low and schools are not challenging (both teachers , I no longer teach). People have no zest. The switched of nature is frustrating. Earnings are pathetic. Far to many people here are in poverty. Racism is worse than Uk. We visited 8 times over 12 yrs and still the true nature of the place eluded us. My best friend is a kiwi that lives in Holland. He said he would rather die than come back here and thought we were mad for coming here.
I love the weather and the coast line . But really what else is there. No wonder the kids are all on drugs and topping themselves. I wanted to do the five yrs and get the passport. Oh well.
I was in the center of Auckland last night and a woman came up to me and said "do you want a good time" I said "yes" . she gave me a ticket to Australia.

I think you could squeeze in a bit more bitterness and lies in there if you tried a bit harder.

And before people jump on me for calling someone a liar, I stand by it as I can 100% state with no risk of being incorrect that not all teens in NZ are on drugs and topping themselves. The proof of course is that I know a few NZers over the age of 20! :cheers

And your friend would rather die? He/She looks as addicted to hyperbole as you.

[ourquest]

Well this is a very difficult. We are going back and taking a huge loss . The reasons are many. We love NZ as a place to visit ,but living here is dull beyond belief .Standards are low and schools are not challenging (both teachers , I no longer teach). People have no zest. The switched of nature is frustrating. Earnings are pathetic. Far to many people here are in poverty. Racism is worse than Uk. We visited 8 times over 12 yrs and still the true nature of the place eluded us. My best friend is a kiwi that lives in Holland. He said he would rather die than come back here and thought we were mad for coming here.
I love the weather and the coast line . But really what else is there. No wonder the kids are all on drugs and topping themselves. I wanted to do the five yrs and get the passport. Oh well.
I was in the center of Auckland last night and a woman came up to me and said "do you want a good time" I said "yes" . she gave me a ticket to Australia.

Exactly why you would contribute to the forum so little and then write this eludes me, much like your true character eluded you during your 8 visits to NZ. I gather you would like to warn us all. Just in time, too, although I'm gathering you're off to Australia on a freebie, so the danger of you might be only temporary. Have a zesty time.

[Scotty69]

I just felt I needed to make these points to explain why I was so appalled at garyanimals statement in his OP. I felt he was using the issue of teen suicide to justify his utter dislike of New Zealand in general. This is a quote by Arwen.

I agree Arwen, this is why I got so annoyed when I first read this thread, people don't have to make excuses for why they are going back as they tried it and it didn't work.
As I said early some like and some don't.

Natasha

[Georgebulldog]

Exactly why you would contribute to the forum so little and then write this eludes me, much like your true character eluded you during your 8 visits to NZ. I gather you would like to warn us all. Just in time, too, although I'm gathering you're off to Australia on a freebie, so the danger of you might be only temporary. Have a zesty time.

I was wondering the same thing, all posts seem so negative as well
Good luck & I hope you find some happiness

[willsken]

Well this is a very difficult. We are going back and taking a huge loss . The reasons are many. We love NZ as a place to visit ,but living here is dull beyond belief .Standards are low and schools are not challenging (both teachers , I no longer teach). People have no zest. The switched of nature is frustrating. Earnings are pathetic. Far to many people here are in poverty. Racism is worse than Uk. We visited 8 times over 12 yrs and still the true nature of the place eluded us. My best friend is a kiwi that lives in Holland. He said he would rather die than come back here and thought we were mad for coming here.
I love the weather and the coast line . But really what else is there. No wonder the kids are all on drugs and topping themselves. I wanted to do the five yrs and get the passport. Oh well.
I was in the center of Auckland last night and a woman came up to me and said "do you want a good time" I said "yes" . she gave me a ticket to Australia.


Call me a cynic… but :roll

[IanW99]

Could I please remind everyone that negative comments are just as welcome as positive ones (it gives a more balanced view IMO) and please could you reframe from personal attacks.

If you interested in the issues relating to suicide in NZ then check out Youth suicide and Teen suicide (pdf) (http://www.chmeds.ac.nz/research/suicide/pdfs/youth_suicide_and_teen_suicide.pdf).

Ian

[Jacqi B]

I was wondering the same thing, all posts seem so negative as well

Yep, only nine posts, the first a year ago, the next in December. Why would someone who had already been in NZ for three years and was unhappy being there suddenly start posting on an emigrate to NZ forum?

I smell a troll.

[Arwen]

Could I please remind everyone that negative comments are just as welcome as positive ones (it gives a more balanced view IMO) and please could you reframe from personal attacks.

If you interested in the issues relating to suicide in NZ then check out Youth suicide and Teen suicide (pdf) (http://www.chmeds.ac.nz/research/suicide/pdfs/youth_suicide_and_teen_suicide.pdf).

Ian

Ian, I totally agree with that sentiment, and posted a post to this effect on another thread, but I think his comments were really below the belt. There are negative comments and then there are downright offensive comments!!! :(

[willsken]

The worrying thing with the UK is that their rate has doubled over the last 10 years.

An interesting thing claimed by bullying on line is that male rates are higher because they choose more violent methods and therefore are more successful in their attempts.

One reason is thought to be because males choose more lethal (and thus successful) methods of suicide such as hanging, shooting or jumping in front of a train.

http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/suicide.htm

[Georgebulldog]

Yep, only nine posts, the first a year ago, the next in December. Why would someone who had already been in NZ for three years and was unhappy being there suddenly start posting on an emigrate to NZ forum?

I smell a troll.

Was thinking the same

[willsken]

Yep, only nine posts, the first a year ago, the next in December. Why would someone who had already been in NZ for three years and was unhappy being there suddenly start posting on an emigrate to NZ forum?

I smell a troll.

That was my thoughts on the last few occasions he's posted. You were just blunter than me!

[IanW99]

The worrying thing with the UK is that their rate has doubled over the last 10 years.

An interesting thing claimed by bullying on line is that male rates are higher because they choose more violent methods and therefore are more successful in their attempts.

One reason is thought to be because males choose more lethal (and thus successful) methods of suicide such as hanging, shooting or jumping in front of a train.

http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/suicide.htm

That is also described in the report that I posted a link to earlier - in particular that many of the youths in NZ have access to firearms (which is what they use).

Ian

[Tesall]

Claiming that all teens in NZ kill themsleves is blatantly incorrect and incredibly insensitive to people who have had to deal with the tragedy of suicide. Using suicide as a weapon in your bitterness against a country is incredibly wrong. Thats not a negative post, it is an insulting and insensitive one.

[Arwen]

Claiming that all teens in NZ kill themsleves is blatantly incorrect and incredibly insensitive to people who have had to deal with the tragedy of suicide. Using suicide as a weapon in your bitterness against a country is incredibly wrong. Thats not a negative post, it is an insulting and insensitive one.

My feelings exactly Tesall.

[sweetpea]

Maths not English. As for kids being on drugs and topping themselves its is a very big problem here. Drug abuse and teenage suicides are in the top three for the world. parents may like it but the teens are bored here. It is cultural dead zone


Tsk tsk, garyanimal. Don't you know you are supposed to graciously whisper something about missing your family in the UK, leave NZ, and disappear forever into the internet ether? :D Expressing any dissatisfaction with NZ is ticky tacky :p

Anyway, about the drug thing: Nationmaster shows NZ as #1 in the world for number of people using marijuana, and #3 in the world for percentage of the population using amphetamines (behind Australia and UK), which is more than 3x the rate of amphetamine use in the US. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_amp_use-lifestyle-amphetamine-use In a couple of the minimum wage jobs I have held, I have seen evidence of P use among employees.

I was also surprised by the number of pregnant teens and very young mothers I see in my town. It seems like teenagers are indeed finding activities to occupy their time.

[Arwen]

Tsk tsk, garyanimal. Don't you know you are supposed to graciously whisper something about missing your family in the UK, leave NZ, and disappear forever into the internet ether? :D Expressing any dissatisfaction with NZ is ticky tacky :p

I don't think there is any need for that kind of sarcasm TSK, TSK!!!!!

[Scotty69]

Could I please remind everyone that negative comments are just as welcome as positive ones (it gives a more balanced view IMO) and please could you reframe from personal attacks.

If you interested in the issues relating to suicide in NZ then check out Youth suicide and Teen suicide (pdf) (http://www.chmeds.ac.nz/research/suicide/pdfs/youth_suicide_and_teen_suicide.pdf).

Ian

Yes Ian you are right all negative and positive comments are welcome, but to me it was not just the teenage suicide the whole post just negative comments about NZ when I myself have been here such a small time has not come up against any of garyanimal comments, as for the racism this is something I did worry about coming here as I am mixed race half Scottish and West Indian but I have not come across any racist since being here.

Natasha

[JandM]

Some people who get bitter that their own attempt to settle hasn't worked out, unfortunately for them, seem to feel the need to splash their feelings around onto others. A post from those heading out of the country, saying what went wrong in their case, is understandable and useful - free speech and giving their own point of view and all that. It's implications that everybody else MUST have had the same experiences but be pretending otherwise that cause upset on here.

As always, everybody is welcome to comment on points in the discussion, but please leave personal remarks out of it. If you feel any post breaks the site guidelines, please report it.

[Scotty69]

Some people who get bitter that their own attempt to settle hasn't worked out, unfortunately for them, seem to feel the need to splash their feelings around onto others. A post from those heading out of the country, saying what went wrong in their case, is understandable and useful - free speech and giving their own point of view and all that. It's implications that everybody else MUST have had the same experiences but be pretending otherwise that cause upset on here.

As always, everybody is welcome to comment on points in the discussion, but please leave personal remarks out of it. If you feel any post breaks the site guidelines, please report it.

Speaking on behave of myself and OH we are having a great experience so far, who nows that can still change but right now we are on such a high being here :D

Natasha

[Arwen]

Speaking on behave of myself and OH we are having a great experience so far, who nows that can still change but right now we are on such a high being here :D

Natasha

I am so pleased to hear that Natasha. Here's to a happy future in NZ! ;)
:cheers

[JandM]

Speaking on behave of myself and OH we are having a great experience so far, who nows that can still change but right now we are on such a high being here :D

NatashaI'm really glad for you that things are working out well.:nice1

[CJ22]

Wow, so much ad hominem in such a short thread. Personal attacks, insinuations as to motive, anecdotal rebuttals, don't-spoil-my-fantasies strops, special pleading.

If the OP is nonsense, then ignore the thread. It's one man's opinion. He's entitled to it. IT IS NOT YOUR DUTY TO DEFEND NEW ZEALAND.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[victoria24]

If the OP is nonsense, then ignore the thread. It's one man's opinion. He's entitled to it. IT IS NOT YOUR DUTY TO DEFEND NEW ZEALAND.


then equally that would infer that you can only post if you're in agreement?

[Arwen]

Wow, so much ad hominem in such a short thread. Personal attacks, insinuations as to motive, anecdotal rebuttals, don't-spoil-my-fantasies strops, special pleading.

If the OP is nonsense, then ignore the thread. It's one man's opinion. He's entitled to it. IT IS NOT YOUR DUTY TO DEFEND NEW ZEALAND.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Oh why don't you just get off of your high horse!!! Who are you to tell us not to express our opinions about his thread!!!!

[Calbabe]

Hi,
We have lived here In the Bay of Plenty for just over 2 years now. We have 2 small daughters. I am a teacher and my husband is a musician.

We have certainly had ups and downs but, my GOD! What was that post about?!! I understand you have a right to your own opinion etc.. and everyone has their own story to tell and own reasons for thinking what they think, however, I feel that your post gave a very narrow, negative and unrealistic view of life in New Zealand. We left our lives in Liverpool, UK, to pursue our new llife here and, hard work though it has been, it is, without doubt the best desicion we have ever made.
I think it is all about your outlook. Look for the negative and you will see it in shed loads, the same goes for the reverse- regardless of where in the world you put down roots. All the nasty stuff is, and always will be out there but we feel it is easier to deal with on a smaller scale, with beautiful land, amazing culture and a warmer climate where everyone is not commercially obsessed about keeping up with the Jones's and what name you have written on your shirt or shoes! I love living here and would trade it for nothing- so there!

[CJ22]

I'm not adressing your right to express your opinions. I'm addressing your right to indulge in mob ad hominem postings, as per the rules of the forum, the usual cack-handed and selective modding notwithstanding. By rubbishing the character, posting style and everything else you're prepared to stoop to of the OP, you're robbing potential immigrants of a balanced view. How many people do you think are afraid to post their experiences on here for fear of getting the treatment meted out here? I know a few personally. The ra-ra brigade on this forum are starting to turn into a howling mob of bullies.

Arwen, you've been here 5 minutes. Would it ever cross your mind that somebody who's been here for 3 and a half years might have a more valid view than somebody who's still in their honeymoon period? Or at least something to say worth listening to?

For the record, I don't agree with any of the OPs objective statements. He has a right to his subjective ones. It's sad to see. But there are more than enough counter-balancing threads on this forum to let people know it's not the doom-and-gloom place that the OP portrays.

How come when somebody posts an "isn't New Zealand wonderful" thread, nobody's howling about it being a narrow, one-sided view? The almost pathological need for some people on this forum to only dwell on the positive and reinforce their choices is getting absurd, and imho one of the contributory factors as to why so many immigrants return home - they have a one-sided and narrow view of what to expect when they got here.

I get that you put a lot of effort into coming here. I get that your hopes and dreams are pinned on it. But the fact that some random guy on the internet happens to be having a less fantastic time of it than you is not a threat to your happiness. And the fact that he chooses to express that dissatisfaction on a forum on which he is allowed to do so is an opportunity for potential immigrants to explore the issues he raises, not watch him get slapped down for daring to hold an alternate view.

[Arwen]

Arwen, you've been here 5 minutes. Would it ever cross your mind that somebody who's been here for 3 and a half years might have a more valid view than somebody who's still in their honeymoon period? Or at least something to say worth listening to?

Correction - I have lived in NZ for three years this August!!!!

[Arwen]

How come when somebody posts an "isn't New Zealand wonderful" thread, nobody's howling about it being a narrow, one-sided view? The almost pathological need for some people on this forum to only dwell on the positive and reinforce their choices is getting absurd, and imho one of the contributory factors as to why so many immigrants return home - they have a one-sided and narrow view of what to expect when they got here.


You know nothing about me. I have posted well balanced threads/posts to try and give a rounded view of life in NZ to potential immigrants, so I'm not all 'rose-tinted specs isn't NZ wonderful for your information!!!

Drug abuse and suicide is a touchy subject. Again I was trying to give a more rounded opinion instead of the sweeping statements made in the original OP!!!

[ourquest]

Arwen, you've been here 5 minutes.

Well then I've only been here about 6 minutes. I guess that makes my opinion 6/5ths more important than Arwen's.

[benandclare]

Far to many people here are in poverty. Racism is worse than Uk.


I have to say from mine and Clare's experience we're inclined to agree with those two points.
From my own experience of where we used to live in the UK there was an under current of racism where as here it's more open but maybe a bit more tongue in cheek .

Both Clare and I have been surprised by the level of and extent of poverty here in Christchurch.

[Arwen]

I have to say from mine and Clare's experience we're inclined to agree with those two points.
From my own experience of where we used to live in the UK there was an under current of racism where as here it's more open but maybe a bit more tongue in cheek .

Both Clare and I have been surprised by the level of and extent of poverty here in Christchurch.

Two very valid points BenandClare, and worth noting. :nice1

[Scotty69]

Hi everyone
Most of us have expressed how we feel about garyanimal's post and yes we are all entitled to our opinions BUT we do not want to start falling out here and slagging each other off so why don't we all call it quits on this post before it gets even worse than it is.

Natasha :D

[victoria24]

it could be argued that democratically and proportionally , most people on the forum are quite positive so that would be why there is a positive flavour to the postings. i'm sure there are other negative forums for more pro negative bods if they feel uncomfortable posting on here?

[Georgebulldog]

Don't you think it strange how on another similar post they got great feedback & wished a merry trip back home where as here it's creating friction, says something about the OP
troll?

[Tesall]

I'm not adressing your right to express your opinions. I'm addressing your right to indulge in mob ad hominem postings, as per the rules of the forum, the usual cack-handed and selective modding notwithstanding. By rubbishing the character, posting style and everything else you're prepared to stoop to of the OP, you're robbing potential immigrants of a balanced view. How many people do you think are afraid to post their experiences on here for fear of getting the treatment meted out here? I know a few personally. The ra-ra brigade on this forum are starting to turn into a howling mob of bullies.

Arwen, you've been here 5 minutes. Would it ever cross your mind that somebody who's been here for 3 and a half years might have a more valid view than somebody who's still in their honeymoon period? Or at least something to say worth listening to?

For the record, I don't agree with any of the OPs objective statements. He has a right to his subjective ones. It's sad to see. But there are more than enough counter-balancing threads on this forum to let people know it's not the doom-and-gloom place that the OP portrays.

How come when somebody posts an "isn't New Zealand wonderful" thread, nobody's howling about it being a narrow, one-sided view? The almost pathological need for some people on this forum to only dwell on the positive and reinforce their choices is getting absurd, and imho one of the contributory factors as to why so many immigrants return home - they have a one-sided and narrow view of what to expect when they got here.

It is nothing to do with balanced views, it is about blatant lies. You might think it is fine to tell lies about a country in some strange attempt to substitute hyperbole for facts, but dont try and rant in lengthy posts that others just have to accept it.
If someone posted a thread saying that all NZ teenagers had perfect health and loads of money in the bank it would be lampooned as well, and I am willing to bet you would be first in line. Just because someone is bitter at their own failure does not suddenly make everything they say above debate and correction.

[CJ22]

So you're saying that if you can't put a positive spin on it, go somewhere else? Really? You're going with that?

[Tesall]

So you're saying that if you can't put a positive spin on it, go somewhere else? Really? You're going with that?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Just because you seem to need a reminder.....

[CJ22]

Don't you think it strange how on another similar post they got great feedback & wished a merry trip back home where as here it's creating friction, says something about the OP
troll?

No, it says it he expressed himself in a manner that got people's backs up. Notice the OP on the other thread was not negative about NZ, but is returning because of missing family and friends. Different motivations, that's all. But one motivation makes people insanely defensive, and the other doesn't. I think it says more about everybody else's state of mind than it does about the OP.

[victoria24]

So you're saying that if you can't put a positive spin on it, go somewhere else? Really? You're going with that?

no, i'm saying each to their own. democracy dictates that you vote with your feet if you're unhappy and the majority rule. I'm happy for all posts on here, it's not my job to moderate and it wasnt me that said not to post if you didnt agree.

[ourquest]

so why don't we all call it quits on this post before it gets even worse than it is.

Natasha :D

This sort of confrontation is a necessary part of community building. I'm not sure it's so bad at all. I have a confession that I get quite disappointed when a controversial thread gets closed (and I suspect this one is heading that way).

Our opinions are all valid. I'm just really chuffed mine are generally positive because I get to live with my opinions 24/7.

If someone walked into your house and informed you that it was trash, would you defend it? I, like many of the members, chose NZ and feel at home here, you know, like you would at home. I don't always appreciate comments about the colour scheme or the furniture placement when the person commenting hasn't acknowledged the million dollar view.

It says everything about the person and nothing about the house.

[Tesall]

No, it says it he expressed himself in a manner that got people's backs up. .

Well i cant speak for anyone else, but his manner had nothing to do with what annoyed me. It was his comments about teenage suicide that annoyed me.

[Georgebulldog]

No, it says it he expressed himself in a manner that got people's backs up. Notice the OP on the other thread was not negative about NZ, but is returning because of missing family and friends. Different motivations, that's all. But one motivation makes people insanely defensive, and the other doesn't. I think it says more about everybody else's state of mind than it does about the OP.

I'm sorry I don't buy it, not mine to buy I know but still my opinion & I don't see why someone would post so little over such a long space of time

I don't find his OP gives any real feedback to people making the move so can't see how it could be helpful to anyone, if he just wanted a rant then just say that like most do, then I could sympathise.

[Tesall]

This sort of confrontation is a necessary part of community building. I'm not sure it's so bad at all. I have a confession that I get quite disappointed when a controversial thread gets closed (and I suspect this one is heading that way).

Our opinions are all valid. I'm just really chuffed mine are generally positive because I get to live with my opinions 24/7.

If someone walked into your house and informed you that it was trash, would you defend it? I, like many of the members, chose NZ and feel at home here, you know, like you would at home. I don't always appreciate comments about the colour scheme or the furniture placement when the person commenting hasn't acknowledged the million dollar view.

It says everything about the person and nothing about the house.

oooh I like that post. :clap

[victoria24]

I wasnt annoyed at all. But i feel i should back people's right to posting regardless of their view. Just cos i'm mr positive doesnt mean a good debate isn't my cup of tea :nice1

[Ngeru]

Well as a newbie who only first posted yesterday after being in NZ for four years I join this debate with some trepidation. :uhoh

I agree to a certain extent that expats with equity can shield themselves from some of the horrors of New Zealand, but I am afraid teen suicide is not one of them. It happens across the spectrum and in some of the very best schools, in the most affluent areas and believe me it will affect every single person in that school in some way or another. Friends, boyfriends, girlfriends, friends of friends etc. in such a close knit unit and they all take it badly. Only a couple of weeks back a young lad from one of our local top schools committed suicide and he would not be the first in my relatively short time here.

They do say that young females make more suicide attempts than young males but the boys are more likely to be successful. More boys die, because they tend to use more lethal methods such as carbon monoxide poisoning in their cars or guns. Young girls quite typically take drug overdoses as a cry for help, rather than intending to actually kill themselves.

Sadly, whilst most Kiwi kids do enjoy fabulously free and adventurous upbringings in NZ; many more do not. Common teenage problems like suicide, pregnancies, misuse of drugs and prostitution are usually linked to problems at home and neglect; being a means or mechanism to block out some form of physical or emotional abuse.

Socio-economic factors do play a huge part, more so the family circumstances and environment of the child; bearing in mind the appalling numbers of children in this country suffering emotional abuse, violence, physical abuse, sexual abuse and pure neglect.

With NZ one of the highest rates of child abuse in the world, I shouldn't think it would be too difficult to correlate this as a major factor in the suicide statistics.

Whilst I am not sure what we personally can do about it, there is nothing to be gained from denying it.

[ellenmelon]

No, it says it he expressed himself in a manner that got people's backs up. Notice the OP on the other thread was not negative about NZ, but is returning because of missing family and friends. Different motivations, that's all. But one motivation makes people insanely defensive, and the other doesn't. I think it says more about everybody else's state of mind than it does about the OP.

It's all subjective eh, his reasons are perfectly valid for his circumstances..and it's likely that people on here that leave maybe because of missing family and friends, not because of the reasons expressed by the OP. Maybe it's because it's the easiest thing to say when you're feeling a bit stink about leaving and people are asking why?

I notice that he said some really great things about the country, but many have missed those. (And while slightly hyperbolic, he's not wrong about the suicide and drug taking rates)They just don't outweigh the deal breakers for him and his family.

Hope that all made sense..

[victoria24]

are there any findings into the stats as to why the abuse and suicide is so high? i mean, is there an identified trend into the causes?

[Tesall]

(And while slightly hyperbolic, he's not wrong about the suicide and drug taking rates)

Can I respectfully suggest you check what he said again? He said all teenagers top themselves. Unless of course you agree with him?

[ourquest]

I notice that he said some really great things about the country

Ah, you mean "it has great weather and a great coastline, but really what else is there?"

:laugh

PS, hint: They're big and they sometimes have snow.
hint: they're friendly and they are helpful.
hint: oh I give up. There must be something else great. Any suggestions?

[ellenmelon]

are there any findings into the stats as to why the abuse and suicide is so high? i mean, is there an identified trend into the causes?

I don't know..and I need my research brain for assignments at the minute ( :) ) but I know my depression has links to quite severe bullying by adults and kids at primary school which has a knock on affect even now.

Some people are heavily depressed for no "apparent" reason...they just are. There are hereditary links too with some people too, a history of it in the family.

[IanW99]

are there any findings into the stats as to why the abuse and suicide is so high? i mean, is there an identified trend into the causes?

If you are interested then Youth and Teen Suicide (pdf) (http://www.chmeds.ac.nz/research/suicide/pdfs/youth_suicide_and_teen_suicide.pdf) that I posted previously, gives some good details.

Ian

[ellenmelon]

Can I respectfully suggest you check what he said again? He said all teenagers top themselves. Unless of course you agree with him?

Hence why I said hyperbolic. Because obviously I'm not agreeing with him! Otherwise I wouldn't be here still eh! Just because his comments were so exaggerated doesn't mean that there isn't some truth in them, and saying that "it happens everywhere" (not a direct quote from yourself, or anyone on here I don't think) doesn't make up for the fact that it does happen far too frequently.

[Scotty69]

Natasha's OH here. She has been going on about this thread all night. Having read through it firstly I think it's a shame that after over 3 years you have decided to go home. Also maybe some of your language (and others) was a bit strong i.e. the reference to teen suicide. However discussions like this are important especially for people still thinking about coming over.

It does appear that you didn't post a lot of times to the forum so I can understand some people getting upset with the tone you used, perhaps if you had written a balanced view as apposed the sensationalist stuff you wouldn't have came across so badly.Not everything in NZ is better than the UK. Crime rates are higher for example but I would still prefer to walk through the center of Auckland or Wellington than walk through the center of Glasgow. Schooling for some may be better in the UK or USA or wherever however I prefer my son's school over the one he went to in Scotland. We feel much more involved with the school here. I could even go into the classroom to pick him back in Scotland. There was a big yellow line across the school yard and parents weren't allowed to cross it!

Its a shame that you are going but best of luck to you.

[JandM]

the usual cack-handed and selective modding notwithstandingNice, thanks, CJ. :) Neither mod who has so far posted on this thread has actually modded anything at all, but has merely reminded anybody/everybody of the rule against personal attacks.