[Paul and Linda]

Hell YES!

I have finally gotten my front garden straight after easter weekend. No we didn't have a mad party in it, we had a Maxda RX7. A 21 year old estate agent who had imported the car and owned it for only a week decided that he would try some silly driving at 2am and ended up in my garden.

To top it all off I was just painting my new fence tonight when I noticed that some low life had taken the opportunity of the fence and wall being down to steal on of my large planters.

This country is getting worse. I realise that some of us live in safer more rural areas but most of the UK don't and most of us have to put up with this sort of thing increasingly.

Maybe somewhere in all of our thoughts, we know that in 5 years time we will have garden not just house security, we'll all be plugged into security firms watching all the cameras we have placed around our houses.....and well all have a golf club accidently left at the front door, just in case.

Rant over (and yes I realise it was a rant and no I don't think like this normally), but I won't be sleeping soundly tonight, do any of us anymore?

Paul

[sarahw]

I don't know about in 5 years time.....5 years ago I lived in gated accommodation in Windsor. The house had an alarm that was linked up to the Police, cameras & trackers on the cars & cameras on front & back of the house 24/7 (OK we lived in a nice area with nicer than average cars but boy did we pay the price for it!) - it was like Fort Knox!!! Still people managed to get in & do vicious things such as letting car tyres down, scratching & vandalising cars etc. :? I think regardless of the security measures if someone really wants to break into your car/house they're gonna find a way if they're serious!

Before & after I lived with that ex I've never had alarms or any form of security and luckily nothing too bad has happened (considering what has happened to neighbours' properties/cars - but the mindless vandalism & lack of respect for other people's property was one of the things that drove Ian & I to move in the end. :exit

[NW2NZ]

Emigrating is scary, but the prospect of growing old here is terrifying :eek Very, very sad to see how its gone :no They say NZ is 20-30yrs "behind" us. Well, let's hope so. Should keep us ahead of the pack.

:exit

[sarahw]

I don't know where else in the world these days you'd find schools with no fences around them!!! Or the favourite burglar detterent of putting a block of wood in your patio door so it can't be forced open! (we looked at several houses & thought that there was something wrong with the patio doors or it was some feng shui thing!(all these pieces of wood on the floors) on them until we asked the agent & he explained it was instead of a burglar alarm & more effective!) :laugh

Also on the train kids have to get up if there are adults standing & let them sit down!!!!!... and they do!!! Can you imagine asking some kids on the trains in the UK to get up??!

[NW2NZ]

Also on the train kids have to get up if there are adults standing & let them sit down!!!!!... and they do!!! Can you imagine asking some kids on the trains in the UK to get up??!

I'm not brave enough! :uhoh

When we were in NZ on holiday last year, a young Maori boy of about 12 walked past us, smiled and said Hi.....we thought he was talking to someone behind us, but he wasn't. Strangers actually make eye contact on the street, or walking on the beach, and give a polite nod and a hello. Fabulous! :nice1

[GeorgeM]

When we were in NZ on holiday last year, a young Maori boy of about 12 walked past us, smiled and said Hi.....

Also in supermarkets the kids on the checkouts seem so civil, making conversation about your day, the weather, tonight's match etc, etc. Not in an automaton-like 'Have a nice day' way, but as if they really want to chat to the aging, balding git (i.e. me) in front of them.

I've gotten so used to it now that on the rare occasion that the checkout person is sullen or surly it comes as a shock and is really noticeable.

We're going back to UK for first visit "home" at Christmas and I wonder whether the lack of old fashioned courtesy will be noticeable, or if we will just accept it and fit back into old expectations. (Or even whether things will have changed since we left and British teenagers also behave like their colonial cousins now :laugh )

[leslie]

we are lucky as where we are in sw15 is surprisingly good. touch wood. but will bet the honeymoon is over within next few years. still have the baseball bat within reach and a hub who did win chung (sp?) for years

our 18 months in north london? nightmare...

dont need it, doya?

[KiwiB]

We're proud that Kiwis are friendly, cheerful and warm pple. Friendly strangers usually have no ulterior motives. We're still living in safe neighbourhoods and schools. Pple are less suspicious of each other. These are often reasons new immigrants choose NZ. As more and more pple move here, lets all make conscious effort to keep our adopted home country this way, even 10 years down the road !! :clap :cool

What say you ? Is it do-abe ? :exit

[kiwidollie]

I certainly hope is do-able Kiwi B.

That's one of the major reasons we love NZ so much and can't wait to make the move :yes

[craigmiya]

I just had to write and say, nz can be just as bad. :uhoh

My father and mother inlaw live in hamilton in a realy nice part of town and have had problems with people stealing the solar garden lights and at christmas a neighbour had there outside christmas lights stolen, so to be honest with you nz has the same problem as the uk :bobby


liz

[NW2NZ]

Be interesting to know whether the culprits are natural kiwis, or a couple of brits! Huge assumption I know, but I read in the local paper (over there) that there's a scam at the moment being carried out by brits. The old "left over tarmac" trick! Headline was Brits fleece local :eek Makes you proud....not!

Just for the record, I'm English born and bred. Let's make the effort to leave NZ as we find it.

[Anita & Marco]

Hi there Brits,

Indeed I hope you will do as NW2NZ states I am born/lived in Holland and have seen enough bad behaviour over here.

Regards,
Anita

[craigmiya]

The people who stole the lights were kiwis, and the same with the christmas lights, a group of local teenagers all kiwi, no brits involved.
nz is a great place but lets not wear rose tinted specs.

All my husbands family live in nz and have done for some time.

every country has its problems, not just the uk

have you ever watched once were warriors?

liz

[GeorgeM]

every country has its problems, not just the uk...

Agreed that everywhere has its problems, but as the other posting says

Friendly strangers usually have no ulterior motives.

we have found this more typical of NZ than the Hamilton experience quoted, and also that this sort of attitude is more widespread than in the UK.

Shortly after moving in, for example, my wife went to the local hardware store to get some rope to make a tree swing in the garden. He had various options, and she wasn't sure which would be best. He gave her each of them and told her to bring back what she didn't want and they'd settle up then. No money changed hands before she left the shop, and he had never seen her before. This sort of trust is still widespread in NZ amongst ordinary people.

You've got your crooks, sharks, total b*stards etcs, but not in the same proportions, or so it seems. Social scientists will often claim that anti social behaviour can result from alienation from society, and indeed the 'problems' in NZ often seem to come from those who could be said to be alienated for whatever reason. Perhaps we just have a smaller percentage who don't buy in to things?

[Moorf]

Not all areas are like Sumner, which I think is a real gem of a place, everyone knows everyone else (you should HEAR the gossip in the surf shop :mrgreen: it's just like the newsagent in Corro!! ). Everyone is very trusting, and there is a real village atmosphere. Even the kids are a delight - after school they often come into the shop asking for free stickers - they can be cheeky "Go on Miss, if you give me a sticker I'll give you a pash"... to which I once replied after a particularly long session of saying no no no i have none, "if you ask again you'll get a bash, nevermind a pash" and the kids laughed and left... all the mums in the shops wet themselves laughing.. now would I have had same reaction in the UK? :eek

It's not like that everywhere in Chch though. :no

BTW George - the hardware shop is moving (apparently) to where the Marine garage is, and a Sushi bar is going in in its place! Oh and the old butchers next to the Yoga centre is to be a deli :nice1

[GeorgeM]

It's not like that everywhere in Chch though. :no


Yep, I know not everywhere's like Sumner, but when it comes down to it I do feel things are more laid back more widely over here, and this is an illustration of that.

I wouldn't expect the same to have happened if I have gone into a shop in Aranui or some other parts of Chch.

But I also would have been surprised if I had received similar treatment where we used to live in a very up-market part of the New Forest.

[leslie]

'leave new zealand as you find it'

nice line of thinking but a new concept in certain cultures. it will be interesting

[Diny]

Also on the train kids have to get up if there are adults standing & let them sit down!!!!!... and they do!!! Can you imagine asking some kids on the trains in the UK to get up??!

This reminds me of an incident we experienced last year. I was on an internal flight between Palmerston North and Auckland with my two boys. They were sitting together and in front of them were a couple of teenage Maori girls. One of the girls had very long and bushy hair which was in a pony tail. She kept lifting the pony tail up and hanging it over the back of her seat .... right into my sons face. Those planes are very 'compact' and Fergie literally had a face full of this black hair http://www.websmileys.com/sm/obscene/eck15.gif

In the end I very politely - with a a big smile - asked the girl if she could move her hair. She didn't even look at me and said .....'it's not my problem'.

My inlaws live in a small rural community in the Manawatu. A couple of months ago an old lady was murdered in her home in the village. The culprit was a 'KIWI' youth who was spaced out on drugs.

They constantly tell us of how things are nicked from their garden, how the bowls club gets vandalised, how somebody has done this, that or the other. The list is endless. I agree that there's not as many incidents as here in the UK ......... but there's not as many people. There's good and bad in all societies.

Nobody can deny that the UK is getting worse but we're not in a class of our own you know. The rest of the planet is getting worse with it.

Per capita NZ has EXACTLEY the same problems as anywhere else.

The people who stole the lights were kiwis, and the same with the christmas lights, a group of local teenagers all kiwi, no brits involved.
nz is a great place but lets not wear rose tinted specs.


:clap :clap :clap :clap

Diny

[Beach Kiwi]

Per capita NZ has EXACTLEY the same problems as anywhere else.


They are if you're referring to UN bull**t statistics!

I've looked into how crime figures are gathered for those and each country does them somewhat differently, especially the US. If the US compiled their figures the same way we did, their crime statistics would be at least three times worse than they are!

[joanne]

Did I hear mention of a Yoga centre in Chch? Please tell more....

[Moorf]

Yep, Yoga centre is opposite the Thai restaurant/wine shop on Nayland Street :nice1

[Diny]

I've looked into how crime figures are gathered for those and each country does them somewhat differently

You need to get out more !!!!!!!!!!

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :exit

Diny

[Timbo]

The world can be a nasty place.


Boy, 6, victim of theft
18 April 2005
By PATRICIA SOPER

Castlerock mum Vicky McCallum has a few well-chosen words for the person who wrenched the honesty tin from her son's roadside swede stall on the Dipton-Castlerock road on Friday night.

"I want you to know that you have stolen money from a child who has worked very hard to make it," Mrs McCallum said.

The honesty-box theft had greatly upset her 6-year-old son Harry who had spent many hours preparing the swedes for sale.

"The exercise was all about teaching him the value of money.

"We opened a bank account for Harry a few weeks ago and selling the swedes was all about work ethic and the satisfaction of saving money that you earn yourself," she said.

They had been hit by a similar theft last year.

"It was annoying but at that stage Harry wasn't involved with the stall."

It was difficult to estimate how much money was in the stolen tin because people often gave more than the 50c asking price.

It was possibly as much as $15.

After last year's theft she had put a note in the tin.

"I wrote that whoever stole the tin had taken money from a child. I hope whoever took my son's hard-earned money read it."

[Beach Kiwi]

I've looked into how crime figures are gathered for those and each country does them somewhat differently

You need to get out more !!!!!!!!!!

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :exit

Diny

I didn't want to do it, especially since it took days of 'investigating' to find what I was looking for, but I had to in order to set the record straight as regards what certain members of another board were saying about NZ. :cool

[Paul and Linda]

For all those nay sayers.....yes we know already....new zealand is not a Utopia.

I just think that I would like to be somewhere that the theft of unguarded money from a tin in the street makes the news. It sounds like there is a general assumption that this event was not expected.

I assumed that my planters (3 foot long and 2 foot high) were a target for theft, which is why I screwed the previous 2 to the ground! They were so difficult to remove when i wanted to replace them that I thought that I would take a chance with the new planters.

All of my worst assumptions about this country are always proven to be right.

The UK will never get better.......I mean cant you all see that, you do live here don't you?

Can you honestlysee the above story reaching the press in the UK?

Boy puts tin of cash on the street and it disappears, read on to find out what happened!.......we know what happened IT GOT PINCHED......that's what happens here!!!!

I can't see me being disappointed in NZ when of a typical UK evening I lock my motorbike up with a £120 chain, lock the shed it it in, lock the garage door I have just come through, check the barbed wire on top of the garden wall.......and then open the shed door every morning....surprised just to see my bike still there.

[Diny]

Well said Paul & Linda - I couldn't agree more. However .......

Nobody can deny that the UK is getting worse but we're not in a class of our own you know. The rest of the planet is getting worse with it.


I still stand firm by the above comment.

I'm no good at stating actual figures (I don't have the time or the inclination to research them) but we all know that NZ is trying to increase it's population up to something like 20 million (no doubt I'll be corrected on that statement). I'd like to bet my last dollar that when NZ has 20 million people living there, there'll be the usual amount of crime, drug problems, vandalism, anti-social behaviour etc that there is ANYWHERE else in the world where 20 million people are in one place. Surely the 'low' crime statistics in NZ today have alot to do with the fact that there's only 4 million people ????? It's a case of demographics, and if those who understand that are labelled 'nay sayers' then so be it.

The point I'm trying to get across is NOT that the UK is all village fetes and roses ..... there's no way anybody with a modicum of an IQ could ever claim that, even us wollie back country bumpkins only have to drive a few miles down the road to be faced with reality. This country is going to the dogs, it saddens me to say that but alas it is true. However, once again I digress.

The point I'm trying to get across is that anybody who believes that when they set foot on the shores of NZ the worst crime they'll read about is some poor little fella having his swede money nicked will - sooner or later - get abit of a wake-up call.

I'm not knocking the place, I love NZ, it's been a part of my life for many years. But when I read about how a person has to lock his motorbike up it reminded me of the time - while staying at the in-laws place - I left my car parked on the road instead of the drive. Father in law was like a cat on a hot tin roof until I drove it onto the drive and locked the gates behind it. He told me that if I left it out on the road it would be broken into and vandalised as soon as it went dark. We're talking a very small, rural town here .... not the Mongrel Mob suburbs of Auckalnd.

Anyway - this subject has been covered so many times. Some of us are classed as nay sayers, some of us are classed as rose tinted specs wearers .... I bet we all class ourselves as realists, that's what makes these discussions interesting. Who really knows what lies ahead of us - good luck to us all - that's what I say :nice1 :nice1

Diny

[Moorf]

we all know that NZ is trying to increase it's population up to something like 20 million

Cripes Diny - I'm gobsmacked, I've never heard of this before - can you remember where you saw/heard it?

Cheers
Moorf

[Diny]

I know ... It's abit amazing isn't it?

I heard about it during a conversation with my sister in law. She'd been watching some TV prog and had heard that NZ needs to increase it's population to 5 million within the next 5 years and then a projected 20 million by the year 2050 to be able to 'hold it's own' in the world economy.

Believe me - this kind of thing is abit over my head but even I managed to look up and take note.

I'll ask her about it next time we speak, see if she can give me some more info for you :nice1 I wonder whether it's the business men who are saying that the population will increase or whether it's the NZIS :?

Diny

[Beach Kiwi]

I left my car parked on the road instead of the drive. Father in law was like a cat on a hot tin roof until I drove it onto the drive and locked the gates behind it. He told me that if I left it out on the road it would be broken into and vandalised as soon as it went dark. We're talking a very small, rural town here .... not the Mongrel Mob suburbs of Auckalnd.

Lots of people with holiday homes on my side of the Peninsula leave very late model Porsches, Mercedes, BMW's etc, either on the road, or on their front lawn at night without any apparent trouble. The chap across the road from me has a brand new Audi, and the people further down have two Mercedes that are always on the roadside when they're here. :?

[Moorf]

Well that's very nice BK but it's rather tempting fate... no area is exempt from opportunists (it's only my opinion). Better safe than sorry in my book having come from a "safe" rural part of Scotland where we had two car thefts in 7 yrs - ok, not exactly a riot of car thefts, but thefts none the less.

But long may your crime free environment continue :nice1

[Beach Kiwi]

Well that's very nice BK but it's rather tempting fate...

It's not that they're tempting fate, it's because they have no choice. Many holiday homes aren't built with garaging, as it's not really necessary, and just adds extra expense where none is needed. If they do have garaging it's usually for their boat, jetski, or other 'toys'. :cool

[Moorf]

Ahh ok, didn't quite get that from your posting.. thought they just left 'em wherever! :smile

[GeorgeM]

but we all know that NZ is trying to increase it's population up to something like 20 million

I'm sorry Diny, but if you can't quote chapter and verse on this one most people will think that you're very very much off the mark. At the moment the population is almost exactly 4 million. To increase five fold in 45 years is not possible. It would require an additional 335,000 bodies each and every year. Last year I believe the net inflow was 10,000, and in a 'good' year it only reaches 50,000.

It took from approx '07 to '52 to get from 1 to 2 million, from '52 to '73 for 3 million and from '73 to '04 for 4 million. 20 million by '45 - I think not.

I'd like to bet my last dollar that when NZ has 20 million people living there, there'll be the usual amount of crime, drug problems, vandalism, anti-social behaviour etc that there is ANYWHERE else in the world where 20 million people are in one place. Surely the 'low' crime statistics in NZ today have alot to do with the fact that there's only 4 million people ?????

Surely this is the point that people are making - that in present day NZ where there isn't a great number of people having to fight for space society is comparatively easy going and relatively crime free compared to many societies with higher density populations. This is what people are identifying and saying they like about the place. It seems to me that you're shouting that black is black as a counter arguement to those who have stated that white is white.

It's like saying that people who say it's difficult to afford to live well in NZ are only saying this because their jobs don't pay much. When they earn more their experience will be different. But that makes no difference to what they find today...

[Diny]

I'm sorry Diny, but if you can't quote chapter and verse on this one most people will think that you're very very much off the mark

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

Sorry George ..... I'll go and stand in the corner of the class and wear my 'D' hat and will consider myself well and truely told. In spite of the fact that I did say that I'm no good at stating fugures. :nice1

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick George old chap, I'm not 'arguing' anything - let alone that black is black or white is white. I'm just sharing experiences and opinions. Just passing on some info which was given to me to 'try' to illustrate a point. I'll stick to discussing gravy granules in the future and leave this 'population boom/crime figures' stuff to you superior fellows :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Diny

[Simon & Emily]

I didn't want to do it, especially since it took days of 'investigating' to find what I was looking for, but I had to in order to set the record straight as regards what certain members of another board were saying about NZ. :cool

I just wanted to cut in and say THANKS to you Beach Kiwi. You're posts are always useful, balanced, and full of local knowledge. It's appreciated that you are here giving us information 'on the ground' :smile .

Thanks again,

Emily

[joanne]

I covered the subject of crime stats and the perception of crime during a social sciences course last year (yawn...) Anyway the jist of it was that
different 'categories' of people were questioned about whether they generally felt vulnerable/threatened etc. The outcome was that the groups who felt the safest (young males) were actually statistically far more likely to be a victim of crime/violence - and the groups who felt unsafe (women and the elderly) were far less likely to be attacked acording to the stats.

Statistics are all well and good BUT surely its how a person FEELS that really counts. The media coverage of crime feeds the general atmosphere of fear and vulnerability.

The bottom line for me is that I often feel unsafe here, and worry about my kids safety and no amount of stats will change that. I dont think these feelings will be as acute in New Zealand. Even if my feeling of safety IS an illusion statistically - it will still FEEL real to me.

[Diny]

The bottom line for me is that I often feel unsafe here, and worry about my kids safety and no amount of stats will change that. I dont think these feelings will be as acute in New Zealand. Even if my feeling of safety IS an illusion statistically - it will still FEEL real to me.

This is SO true. No matter what differing opinions there are, what's reported on TV progs, how much research folks have done into 'numbers' etc, it's how WE ourselves feel. There's no right or wrong - and certainly no black and white.

Diny

[craigmiya]

Just had to come in and say i agree with all you have said diny. ;)

liz

[NW2NZ]

:clap :clap :clap :clap Ditto

[GeorgeM]

Just had to come in and say i agree with all you have said diny. ;)

liz

Does 'all' include the fact that "...we all know that NZ is trying to increase it's population up to something like 20 million"?

If so I'm sure that many who visit this forum would be very keen to get some info on where this fact originates from. I'm not really a betting man, but I would wager in this case that 99.9% of readers of Diny's remark would be astounded and be hearing it for the first time.

If you agree with all she is saying you presumably have some basis for this belief. In which case can you please share it with us?

It appears that many people visit these forums to find out things about NZ prior to making a decision on whether to move here or not. It's not unreasonable to suggest that a good number who are attracted to a place the size of the UK which is populated by 4 million would be turned off instantly when they read that "we all know that NZ is trying to increase it's population up to something like 20 million" by 2050. By letting the comment lie unchallenged we are doing no one a service.

[veronica]

Disregarding the population numbers quoted I really don't think the NZ infrastructure could cope with any much bigger population growth than it is having at the moment. In some ways its an 'immature' (perhaps thats not the exact word but can't think of a better one at the moment) government here, they do display tendancies to jump on the bandwagon of other countries almost like a kid in the playground saying 'pick me, pick me'.

On the crime stats I really feel that if you were take a random sample of 100 people from rural, urban or city environments here or a 100 in the UK you are going to get the same proportion of 'good, bad and indifferent' human nature is the same the world over, its just the bit of land they are standing on thats different. The sheer volume of people proportion wise in the UK means there are more reportable extreme crimes. There have been 3 homicides here in Chch in 7 weeks. chch is the same size as the town we lived in in the UK and that would struggle to match those figures. I am not saying that this is an everyday occurance, just using it as an example.

[GeorgeM]

:clap :clap :clap :clap Ditto

Doubled ;)

[Diny]

My word George .... why am I getting visions of a Jack Russell with a rat? :laugh :laugh :laugh

I heard about it during a conversation with my sister in law. She'd been watching some TV prog and had heard that NZ needs to increase it's population to 5 million within the next 5 years and then a projected 20 million by the year 2050 to be able to 'hold it's own' in the world economy.

Believe me - this kind of thing is abit over my head but even I managed to look up and take note.

I'll ask her about it next time we speak, see if she can give me some more info for you I wonder whether it's the business men who are saying that the population will increase or whether it's the NZIS

Anybody reading this thread would have seen that I followed my original comment up with the above comment. I do apologise for not having any more info.

Anybody who frequents this forum and is familiar with my posts will know that I'm not the most eloquent of members. My comments have obviously sent you 'off on one' ... for which I apologise.

The fact that I repeated some information that I had been told so as to illustrate my point was obviously wrong. If all that I had written was the comment about the 20 million and nothing else then I could understand your lecture - but read all the posts - not just mine - from start to finish and I think you'll see it in the context it was meant.

You have me totally confused. You've torn my comments limb from limb but have ended by saying NW2NZ wrote:
Ditto


Doubled

I bow out with severely rapped knuckles and will endeavour to run any statistic (regardless to where I heard them) past you before I use them - will that make you feel better :nice1 :nice1 :nice1 :nice1 :nice1

Diny

[GeorgeM]

My comments have obviously sent you 'off on one' ... for which I apologise.

You haven't sent me off on one, so no need to apologise. :laugh



I bow out with severely rapped knuckles and will endeavour to run any statistic (regardless to where I heard them) past you before I use them - will that make you feel better

Intention was not to rap knuckles, merely to counter a very strange and extreme assertion that you had been very emphatic about. If there is any degree of truth whatsoever in what you suggested then I would genuinely be very interested to find out who is proposing this level of population growth (and so would many other users of the forums I would guess).

Am I not allowed to explore where you're coming from / what you base your statements on etc in this manner?

By the way - there is no need to run stats past me or anyone else, as far as I am aware. I would just suggest that it in a public forum it is generally wise not to make wild pronouncements if you aren't willing or able to substantiate them.

[Diny]

Maybe if I state this a 3rd time the message might sink in.

I heard about it during a conversation with my sister in law. She'd been watching some TV prog and had heard that NZ needs to increase it's population to 5 million within the next 5 years and then a projected 20 million by the year 2050 to be able to 'hold it's own' in the world economy.

Believe me - this kind of thing is abit over my head but even I managed to look up and take note.

I'll ask her about it next time we speak, see if she can give me some more info for you I wonder whether it's the business men who are saying that the population will increase or whether it's the NZIS

Then I will double quote the bit that says:

I'll ask her about it next time we speak, see if she can give me some more info for you

It's not some comment I pulled out of my empty head :laugh :laugh

Am I not allowed to explore where you're coming from / what you base your statements on etc in this manner

Of course you are ... that's what a forum is about. I will endeavour to find out from her what TV prog she was watching when she heard these comments being made. Then I will pass on that info to you, then you will be able to explore where I'm coming from until your hearts content :nice1

Happy days :cheers

Diny

[Moorf]

Diny's comment sure made me sit up and think, and GeorgeM's rationalisation of figures then calmed me down again! Either way, glad the subject came up.

And, as usual, I did my own research :P

Came up with some info:

Over the last 100 years, New Zealand's average annual increase in population was 1.7 %. Assuming this rate of growth could be sustained in the future, New Zealand could have a population of 20 million in 100 years time. Assuming a continuation of past trends of population concentration, at least 60% of these people are likely to be in Northland/Auckland/Waikato/Bay of Plenty, in which case this urban region could be home to 12 million people.

Taken from http://www.transurban.co.nz/pubgrowth.html which in itself is an interesting article.

Another related site:

http://www.stats.govt.nz/people/population/default.htm ( has a population clock - not QUITE as active as India's :laugh )

[Beach Kiwi]

I just wanted to cut in and say THANKS to you Beach Kiwi. You're posts are always useful, balanced, and full of local knowledge. It's appreciated that you are here giving us information 'on the ground' :smile .

Thanks again,

Emily

You're embarrassing me - but thanks! :nice1

With that crime statistics thing I even phoned police HQ in Wellington, just to make sure that what I found out was true! :yes

[GeorgeM]

With that crime statistics thing I even phoned police HQ in Wellington, just to make sure that what I found out was true! :yes

Quite right too! :mrgreen:

BUT....

What do you mean by "true"? Who did you speak to? What EXACTLY were the questions you put? (only kidding)

[Beach Kiwi]

What do you mean by "true"?

Something like this (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=true), I guess! :laugh

Who did you speak to?

Some broad, er, I mean, helpful woman! ;)

What EXACTLY were the questions you put

Is the sky really blue?

Are you free for dinner?

:laugh :nice1

[Simon & Emily]

Disregarding the population numbers quoted I really don't think the NZ infrastructure could cope with any much bigger population growth than it is having at the moment.

The UK has been unable to cope for many years - nothing seems to work in this country. The NHS, schools, transport, housing - ths list is endless - nothing can cope with the numbers of people, both legal and illigal, that are trying to use it.

Emily

[baboonworld]

The world can be a nasty place.


Boy, 6, victim of theft
18 April 2005
By PATRICIA SOPER

......

The honesty-box theft had greatly upset her 6-year-old son Harry who had spent many hours preparing the swedes for sale.

"The exercise was all about teaching him the value of money.



Sorry - but a swede stall!!! I cant stop myself from crying!!!!! he he he ha ha ha!!!! I'd say he was lucky to get 50c in the tin!!!

Anyway he has learnt another valuable lesson - (no, it isnt dont sell swedes) "you cant trust everyone and there is a lot of greed and injustice in the world" - still a valuable lesson I'd say.

Someone else already knew the value of money !

[veronica]

Disregarding the population numbers quoted I really don't think the NZ infrastructure could cope with any much bigger population growth than it is having at the moment.

The UK has been unable to cope for many years - nothing seems to work in this country. The NHS, schools, transport, housing - ths list is endless - nothing can cope with the numbers of people, both legal and illigal, that are trying to use it.

Emily

Different viewpoints, in our limitied experience of the NHS it has always worked for us. When Kerry (daughter) had to be rushed to hosp, they were great. When we have had to go to the local Drs. (Free) we have always had good care and treatment. (ask people from the US how expensive the treatment is there)
Schools, apart from the fact we home educated our daughters (both dyslexic) until they chose to go to school at 11, its free and they both come out with the right Qualifications to go on to further education. The biggest problem with schools is the bad attitude of a minority of pupils and the indifference of a further percentage.
Transport, never had to use it much before we left as we lived in a village but yes we understand that it is expensive. Daughter is currently using it to get to and from work in London each day and so far its got her there on time and safely. The M25 can work properly 4 days a week and no one will comment on how efficient it is but when it does have a breakdown or crash (often the fault of the drivers rather than the road) that causes delays then there is a great uproar about how bad the M25 is, etc....
Housing... well we have never relied on anyone else to house our family and have always felt it better to own our own house, even though it has meant doing without a lot of other things so we could afford the mortgage.
I think that considering the volume of folks in the UK the infrastructure is coping pretty good.

So far, apart from the illegal immigrants (although they do have a percentage of overstayers here) the list above could apply to NZ as well as to the UK. I do think its very important for prospective migrants over in the UK still to realise that all these things are similar here, theres not enough nurses and doctors, they all go off to overseas for more money. Schools in 'good' areas here will have good results, schools in poorer areas won't, the work ethic isn't there. There are homeless people here and people in homes who can't afford the heating in the winter. The public transport here in Chch is good, but if you live out of town its not as good. The prisons here are overcrowded too and the courts seem to be just as lenient.

Having said all that we are happy enough to be here but we came out for 'people' reasons not to escape the UK., although I will admit we were both concerned about the rate of illegal immigrants and the problems they could bring to the UK, that wasn't the reason we left.

Regardless of the efficiency or otherwise of the UKs infrastructure I don't think NZs infrastructure could sustain the rate of population growth in the extreme figures quoted above. As it stands at the moment the immigration mix would be short of a lot of key players who can get far better money in other parts of the world.

[Diny]

Veronica......

I totally agree with your thoughts about the UK. You have hit the nail directly on the head and have given a totally unbiased, experienced view of 'life on both sides'.

Obviously everybody is commenting on their own experiences - UK city dwellers will have a totally different view of this country than UK country bumpkins.

My own personal experiences of the UK are just fine. Have never been let down by the NHS either - in fact we live next door to the village surgery where you don't need an appointment - as long as you're there before 10.50 am the doctor will see you :nice1 Like Veronica I don't have much use for public transport but when we lived in Aberdeen (we are now in Staffordshire) - we didn't own a car and went everywhere by bus and always arrived on time. Our boys go to a very good state funded village school (where the entrance gate is unlocked at 8.30 am and stays wide open and un-guarded until after 6 pm). My parents live in the next village and their neighbour keeps chickens. He sells his surplus eggs at his gate, leaves them out on a table with an honesty box. The eggs disappear and cash is put in the tin - as far as I know it's never been pinched. My hubby has a total mental block about removing the keys from the car when he gets home. 9 times out of 10 it's out on the drive unlocked with keys in the ignition all night. I'm probably tempting fate by saying this but it's never been taken.

Now I will get the barrage of comments about having my head buried in the sand and being totally out of touch with the 'REAL Britain'. I can assure you I'm not. I'm totally aware that things are VERY different in other parts. I have lived in the city for a number of years and at times it was a nightmare (but at times it was great fun too).

What I'm trying to say ..... not wanting to come across as a 'nay sayer' (whatever that is :roll: ) is that not everybody is so God damn sick to the back teeth with this country that they feel the constant negativity is justified. The problems that exist here are present (in one way or another) just about wherever you go ... and I'm not just talking NZ. Sadly this country is getting worse. But surely the simple phrase "getting worse" means that it's not hit rock bottom yet. I'm sure with the likes of that idiot Blair at the helm the question isn't 'will' it hit rock bottom, but 'when' will it hit rock bottom. Some will argue it already has, some will argue it's a long way off .... it's all down to personal experience.

For us, it's not that we don't want to live in the UK, it's just that we do want to live in NZ, but the idea of living in a crime free utopia (and yes I'm saying that tongue in cheek) was never one of the deciding factors.

Just as a thoughful, yet funny, foot note. We have some Kiwi friends living over here who are totally gob smacked that we should want to go and live over in NZ. They vow never to return and don't have a good thing to say about the place. In fact, the nicest comment they've ever made about NZ is ......"same s**t different scenery".

I guess it's a case of one mans meat is another mans poison.

Ramble over now .... sorry for going on :nice1

Diny

[veronica]

I have to agree with your friends to a certain extent and think it would apply to most "1st" world countries. but I will quite happily admit that the scenery here is better. (well, coming from a flat place like Essex it wasn't as if there was too much competition :laugh )

[Hannah]

Grandiose ideas of increasing the population to 20 million is not reflected in the hassle needed to go through to get PR (sure SoCalGal would agree).

Sorry to bring that one up again, just feeling a bit cheeky! (not been around for a while - got my phone bill and there was over £20 of internet calls for last month- i'm on pay as you go - nearly scared me into buying broadband!!)

[Diny]

got my phone bill and there was over £20 of internet calls for last month- i'm on pay as you go - nearly scared me into buying broadband!!)

Yikes Hannah !!!!! Get off that pc !!!!! :laugh :laugh

How's it all going?

Diny

[leslie]

it is natural to have itchy feet and want change, yes.

does anyone remember the timeout thing 2 ish years ago where they brazenly and with great hoopla brought 2 parisian couples to london? they left early, their impression far from the 'cool brittania' the pr people expected. they went home to see if they could salvage some of their weekend! media managed to contain the embarassment.

i have lived in grayshott, hants, quiet, genteel, backwater. lasted 8 months. grim. the village life dini describes sounds v nice, and v unusual. in this day and age, post dunblane/ custody issues etc, it is quite something to think there are still schools in the uk that aren't secured - leads me to believe one day where you live will be yanked into the real world in some rather unpleasant way. i can just imagine the town hall meetings...

what makes me feel most sad about the uk is many of the problems we have aren't all that differnent from other places - as many have noted - its just the idiotic, ham-fisted approach to dealing with them and the general lack of responsibility in the populous that allows them to mushroom. nothing here is insurmountable but i put my money on things staying same. actually, getting worse. by choice. this is the first place i have been where there is no legitimate desire for change.

[Nicola]

Veronica......


Obviously everybody is commenting on their own experiences - UK city dwellers will have a totally different view of this country than UK country bumpkins.

My own personal experiences of the UK are just fine. Have never been let down by the NHS either - in fact we live next door to the village surgery where you don't need an appointment - as long as you're there before 10.50 am the doctor will see you :nice1 Like Veronica I don't have much use for public transport but when we lived in Aberdeen (we are now in Staffordshire) - we didn't own a car and went everywhere by bus and always arrived on time. Our boys go to a very good state funded village school (where the entrance gate is unlocked at 8.30 am and stays wide open and un-guarded until after 6 pm). My parents live in the next village and their neighbour keeps chickens. He sells his surplus eggs at his gate, leaves them out on a table with an honesty box. The eggs disappear and cash is put in the tin - as far as I know it's never been pinched. My hubby has a total mental block about removing the keys from the car when he gets home. 9 times out of 10 it's out on the drive unlocked with keys in the ignition all night. I'm probably tempting fate by saying this but it's never been taken.

Now I will get the barrage of comments about having my head buried in the sand and being totally out of touch with the 'REAL Britain'. I can assure you I'm not. I'm totally aware that things are VERY different in other parts. I have lived in the city for a number of years and at times it was a nightmare (but at times it was great fun too).
Diny

Diny I could not have said this better myself. The way of live you described above is equally as real for me. Except for our local school closing down after 20 years of being threatened.

We are going to NZ because we want to live there, not because we want to leave here.

Nicola

[Diny]

in this day and age, post dunblane/ custody issues etc, it is quite something to think there are still schools in the uk that aren't secured

I should point out at this stage that the actual building is locked. You have to go through a security door. Ring the bell, say who you are into the 'mic' - and they can see you from the office. I wouldn't accept anything less.

However, the main gates onto the property are open all day and are not 'guarded' at all.

Diny

[craigmiya]

Like diny i live in a village well town realy , you realy feel safe here, polite teenagers, sometimes :yes .

I came here from glasgow and don't think the uk is the same all over, where i am now is realy nice no major crime problems, where i come from on the other hand is the total opposite, drugs , crime, etc, i have lost many friends to drugs.

What i am trying to say is i reckon this is the same for nz, some places have no real crime whereas others have real problems with drugs etc.

I'm not saying glasgow and that erea is all council estates(i came from one) just where i was went to the dogs with drugs,crime etc, and that was not in glasgow city centre but in a town not farfrom it.

Hope this makes sense, it does to me ;)

liz

[Hannah-NL]

Being from Holland, that little spot across the channel, with 16 million people, maybe we could all emigrate and NZ would be up to it's 20 million extra eh? anyway we are going to NZ because we really feel like "too many rats in a cage" here. We're not running away from this country, it's cute and has many good things as well, but things have been changing even here in the eastern part of the country. Too much traffic, always noisy, house prices have risen to double what we paid 10 years ago, which is good when we want to sell what we got of course, but we will never be able to get the life style and surroundings we would love to have. We just think our kids will have a better life in NZ. Maybe less money to earn, but a better life to live.

Oh and we fell in love with the scenery ;)

[jo b]

Just thought I would throw my penneth worth in.

Ian heard on the radio in NZ from an mp that they will put a limit on the population at 6m as the infrastructure couldn't cope with anymore without massive investment.
His brother-in-law had heard it was 12m.

so who knows???

Jo

[Diny]

............. and my sister in law heard 20 million .... (which made me look up and take note ..... and which I so foolishyly repeated :laugh :laugh :laugh ). So yeah you're right ........

who knows?

[Hannah-NL]

Projected growth of pop: 4,8 mill in 2051
http://www.stats.govt.nz/quick-facts/people/future-pop-issues.htm

Statistics site, very dry, but lots of (boring or interesting?) info... ;)

[Hannah-NL]

Oops forgot up to date number of pop: 4,095,470 (today)

[Diny]

Projected growth of pop: 4,8 mill in 2051


Hannah, is that 4.8 mill in 2051? Surely not (am I being thick again). If it's almost that now it will be a heck of alot more in 46 years time.

Or is it 48 million? In which case the info I heard doesn't sound so stupid after all.

Confused? You bet I am.

Diny

[Hannah-NL]

"Projected New Zealand population 2051 = 4,807million"

:P That's the number on that site, click the link, and it's just en estimate they gave, sorry maybe I should not post any figures here ;)

[Diny]

Ahh .... I was being thick !!! Nothing new there then :roll:

Still totally confused by it all ........ seems everywhere you look and everybody you speak to gives a different 'projection'.

All I know that as from July 17th the population of NZ will increase by 4 !!! And that is a FACT that not even the keenest jobsworth can dispute :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

That's good enough for me :nice1

Diny

[Danpoll]

or does that mean they know about something that happens in 2050 and their not telling us.


Dan

[MB]

Grandiose ideas of increasing the population to 20 million is not reflected in the hassle needed to go through to get PR (sure SoCalGal would agree).

Well said, Hannah, re. SoCalGal. She's always very helpful and gracious on others' behalf, and I hope things are moving forward for her if she's still in the process. She has also, I might add, been supportive of us via PM.
Anyway, if she and her family want to get to NZ I'm sure they will. V.determined and spirited, I reckon. :yes

Cheers,
Matt and family.

[GeorgeM]

All I know that as from July 17th the population of NZ will increase by 4 !!! And that is a FACT that not even the keenest jobsworth can dispute :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh


Wanna bet? :laugh

For the record...

It is a fact that the four of you intend to arrive in NZ on 17th July, but it is not a fact that the population of NZ will increase by 4 on that day.

It will be 4 more than if you didn't arrive, but the actual change to population on that day will also be affected by the number of persons born here (your increase of 4 could be doubled by a single multiple birth), the number who die (your 4 could be made more than irrelevant by a bad car smash), others who arrive and those who leave.

The population on that day could go up, go down or stay the same - even if we had an accurate way of measuring we wouldn't know until the day was over. And that's a fact :nice1

[MB]

:laugh
Hey, George, you don't have a secret life as a BBC Southern Counties talk radio host called Tommy Boyd, do you?

I'm a huge admirer of Boyd -- I've quoted him on the forum before -- but there's no denying that he has a sense of, er, mischievous logic in the particular way he comes back at people sometimes! :laugh

Anyone who listens to his Saturday night show will know what I'm on about. :yes

:cheers
All the best!

Cheers,
Matt.

[Diny]

Does Tommy Boyd wear an anorack ?

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

[Moorf]

You sound just like my father George - and spookily his name is George and his surname begins with an M :uhoh :laugh

[captainxmas]

Well, it's 23:00 and I'm listening in on a gang of foul-mouthed, abusive, drunken underage teenagers that are gathered around a house across the road.

And I ask myself...'Do we still want to go?'

Oh yes.

The nice thing would be to dream that I could actually explain to them about manners and civilised behaviour without the possibility of getting a paint covered car sometime in the near future.

What ever happened to this once green and pleasant land? :exit