[paulsco]

Hi All
As i sit here at work in the 28 degree heat (yes that's celcius! and even more bizarre it's Scotland) i was thinking of you all, in the middle of winter and cold (OH i miss the cold!). Why don't houses in NZ have gas cental heating? i have looked around but cannot find the answer? I am led to believe there is a gas supply there are lots of electric wet systems too!
Is it that its only cold for a few weeks and seemed not worth the trouble of installing or should i retrain as a heating engineer and come over and make my fortune!!
Does anyone know?

[Duncan74]

Isn't it duue to the earthquake risk, and hte pipes fracturing in the ground? Or is that the 'old wives tale' explanation?

Could have been in the past, although with the plastic pipes we now use in teh UK that would be less of an issue than the old metal ones that are more likely to fracture with moderate movement.

[peebles16]

There is no mainline gas on the South Island at all just bottled stuff and it's pretty dear from what I can gather :( North Island has it though so guess that rules out earthquke risk... I think that they are just behind the times a bit and cost is pretty significant so they go for alternative but less efficient ways to keep warm like extra layers :D

Stop showing off about the heatwave you know the rain will start soon :D

Karenx

[BkyMonster]

Not sure there is a gas supply. Gas connection charges seem high and mainly what I see here is LPG (propane I think?). I could be wrong about the lack of gas supply though.

Other than that I think the houses are a bit of a cultural thing. That is, up until recently (50 years or less ago) a house was more somewhere to sleep and life was lived outside. Then as people moved more of their lives inside they held onto the previous way of building houses. Similar to how houses in some regions in the US kept wide overhanging eaves and porches despite the advent and installation of air conditioning.
At least that is my hypothesis based on having lived in a very (100 year+) old house here. That house actually had a bit more concessions to the weather than some of the more modern houses (central fireplace-though it wasn't functional when we lived there, sunny aspect) that borrow from worldwide architecture, so I tend to think it's a bit of a cultural thing that makes the newer houses the way they are.

[nickiware]

I lived on the north shore in auckland and everyone seems to think they live in a tropical country and dont need heating, insulation or double glazing! until winter strikes!

[IanW99]

Hi All
As i sit here at work in the 28 degree heat (yes that's celcius! and even more bizarre it's Scotland) i was thinking of you all, in the middle of winter and cold (OH i miss the cold!). Why don't houses in NZ have gas cental heating?
...


Interesting responses from other members...

Well I can say for certain that there is a gas supply in the Wellington area and also that some houses in the region have gas central heating.

Most appear to be gas ducted heating, but radiators are also available.

Gas is actually an expensive form of heating in NZ which is why log burners and heat pumps are so common (even when there is a gas supply).

Ian

[Tesall]

Gas is going to become a very expensive form of heating worldwide (well except for Russia), it is an extremely finite resource with a very complex and threatened distribution system. A lot of trouble with Georgia and the Ukraine with Russia is stemmed from Gas supply and pipes. In fact the UK is looking at ways to alleviate its reliance on Russian gas, they are not alone of course, russia has a huge control over all of Europes heating.

[tim&em]

A lot people seem to forget that gas heating in the UK was a relatively modern introduction. I'm 33 and certainly the first two houses my family lived in did not have gas central heating.

Also, I think a major point is that the UK enjoyed extremely cheap gas for many years, which made it an attactive option. When we left in 2008 that was no longer the case - our quarterly gas bill having gone up something like 300% in the last 6 years!

[Flutterby]

i don't think you'd make your fortune selling central heating in NZ, Maybe insulation is a better avenue to investigate.

[Tesall]

i don't think you'd make your fortune selling central heating in NZ, Maybe insulation is a better avenue to investigate.

There was an article the other night on TV about a shortage of people prepared to do insulation, looked like tough work, but maybe if you are the boss you could make a nice little amount and not have to battle spiders and small enclosed spaces.

[MaryMc]

Mains gas was piped down our street about 5 years ago (north Auckland). i don't know anyone who hooked up to it though - nobody could afford to pay the bills if they did hook up!

[dharder]

We have gas central heating (with radiators), also does the hot water (same system we had in the UK, did away with those water tanks as well).

Can't say the running costs are any worse than electricity, and we certainly wouldn't have a house as evenly warm as we do if we used some of those oil thingies.

Daniela

[Familyofmonkeys]

It most definitely seems to be a cultural thing. We are in a house less than 2 years old with single glazed windows and minimum insulation that meets the specs.....it is bloomin freezing in winter. And what is really daft is that we have a gas boiler for the hot water and gas hob...so can't get my head around why you wouldn't have gas heating at the same time. Gas heating would be no more expensive than UK, probably a bit cheaper actually.

As for insulation, the products on the market here are inferior compared to a significant proportion of the world, considering this country is not significantly warmer. We have just looked at the price of celotex insulation for our house build (we used the same stuff in our garage coversion in UK), and it would cost an extra $12k to the build cost as it has to be shipped from the UK :eek: This would give the walls an R value of about 5-6, compared to the standard here of 2.8 that most new houses here are built to ( http://www.pinkbatts.co.nz/warm_solutions.asp ). There is no equivalent product here that we can find that gives the same level of insulation :wah

[Kanga]

It most definitely seems to be a cultural thing. We are in a house less than 2 years old with single glazed windows and minimum insulation that meets the specs.....it is bloomin freezing in winter. And what is really daft is that we have a gas boiler for the hot water and gas hob...so can't get my head around why you wouldn't have gas heating at the same time. Gas heating would be no more expensive than UK, probably a bit cheaper actually.

As for insulation, the products on the market here are inferior compared to a significant proportion of the world, considering this country is not significantly warmer. We have just looked at the price of celotex insulation for our house build (we used the same stuff in our garage coversion in UK), and it would cost an extra $12k to the build cost as it has to be shipped from the UK :eek: This would give the walls an R value of about 5-6, compared to the standard here of 2.8 that most new houses here are built to ( http://www.pinkbatts.co.nz/warm_solutions.asp ). There is no equivalent product here that we can find that gives the same level of insulation :wah

FOM- do the wool eco insulation products fare any better?

[Wooly_Cow]

Gas is actually an expensive form of heating in NZ which is why log burners and heat pumps are so common (even when there is a gas supply).

Ian

Looking at the relative prices, standing charges for gas are about 40% higher in NZ (than the UK) (which is probably in part to pay for the higher infrastructure charges - less dense population, more problematic gas mains and partly becuase the lower usage would not otherwise cover the costs), but unit prices are about 20% cheaper....which sort of makes it cheaper the more you use :) (relatively)

I have seen reports which compare the various sorts of heating suggesting that heat pumps are in fact the cheapest way of heating, and you can get these to heat larger portions of the house - but I think these reports were sponsored by heat pump companies:laugh

[Familyofmonkeys]

FOM- do the wool eco insulation products fare any better?

From research so far, wool insulation is popular in eco homes but more expensive than pink batts for similar R value....plus if not fitted very well it can sag in the walls after a few years. The R value just doesn't compare to celotex volume wise as the cavity in the wall is just not big enough to use enough of the wool stuff to match the insulation levels.

[IanW99]

...
I have seen reports which compare the various sorts of heating suggesting that heat pumps are in fact the cheapest way of heating, and you can get these to heat larger portions of the house - but I think these reports were sponsored by heat pump companies:laugh

I was sort of under the same impression that you can't rely on those reports on the various manufacturer websites as well.

But here's the latest Fuel Prices compared (http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/heating-options/fuel-prices-compared) details from consumer.org.

I assume because it is independent, that it is reasonably accurate and fair.

Ian

[GrumpyGoat]

This would give the walls an R value of about 5-6, compared to the standard here of 2.8 that most new houses here are built to

I am VERY confused. Are R values on different scales in the UK and the US?

I know that the minimum building standards in the US where we are from is R-30. We upgraded to R-45 when we built.
It is just a thin board thingie (like sheetrock or gib board) but made out of something else like a rigid foam. (sorry, don't mean to get all technical on you guys ;))
It has foil on one side.

Rolled fiberglass insulation (pink batts here) is for the attic only in the US. Do they put it in the walls here?

Sorry, OH is the one with this knowledge and he is obviously not here at the moment.

But I am sure it is R-30 for the standard in the US.

I don't want R-6!!
But this makes the ad I saw for that foam insulation that said R-2.9 make more sense. I thought they were crazy.

I will have to find out about importing our insulation as well when we build.

[BkyMonster]

I am VERY confused. Are R values on different scales in the UK and the US?

Yeah I looked it up and was going to mention it in the other thread (which is now locked). Seems like the US uses Fahrenheit/BTU and everyone else uses the international units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)


...good ol' US:exit

[paulsco]

Stop showing off about the heatwave you know the rain will start soon :D

Karenx

Well as stated the rain will return today:wah although the sun returns tomorrow with an expected high of only 21 degresss (time to dig out the thermals) but we Scots know it will never last and as a wise scottish man once said......
" If you dont like the Scottish weather, Hang on for 5 minutes" (Mr Billy Connolly)

On the insulation thing, are there any government incentives like in the UK? the woman next door to me had all her cavity walls insulated for free as she was over 70? and being a canny Scot i slipped the intallers a backhander to do mine at the same time:nice1

[BkyMonster]

I should add the R value table in that article is I linked slightly worthless as it is in US measurements (by inch) and the SI listings are also by inch rather than the standard meter. *sigh* There were some good links at the bottom of the page and at least you can see the relative values of some materials.

As for Govt incentives, they are just now rolling out this http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/3/a/c/49HansQ_20090618_00000001-1-Budget-2009-Household-Energy-Efficiency.htm which gives iirc up to $1300 (1/3 of total costs) toward installation.

[92Immigrant]

Why don't houses in NZ have gas cental heating? i have looked around but cannot find the answer?

Well, firstly there's the kiwi attitude. It would be soft to have CH.

Here in balmy Auckland it really isn't necessary. Especially with a half decent house. Usually in Auckland it doesn't get too cold until late June (when we have the usual couple of frosts), and then things are looking up again by September. July is cold, and August is coldish and wet.

We have gas on our street, but, we aren't hooked up to it.

There's a big push on heat pumps at the mo' but I reckon they're a rort. "Oh, it's best to leave them on 24/7". :laugh

We have a large multifuel heater, plus we use electric heaters controlled by my thermostats.

As I type this it's a comfortable 20.2 deg C at 10pm with the heaters off for the night.

CH would cost a stack of $$ for me to install, I'm saving heaps by not installing.

Dave.

[Ngeru]

Yes we have reticulated gas in Auckland and lots of people have those instant gas water heaters mounted on the outside of the house. We had one in a rental and it really was great.

http://www.rinnai.co.nz/rinnai_infinity/infinity_default.aspx

There's often stated in real estate terms 'gas to the street' which means exactly that, the gas is piped to the street, however with houses often set back far from the road it is a hassle and quite expensive to get it connected to the house. Central heating is just simply not a high priority and most Kiwis would see it as a waste of money, despite having just as long a winter period as the UK.

Recently a national scheme has been announced to provide grants for heating and insulation.

http://www.eeca.govt.nz/node/3107

Boost for warmer, drier, healthier Kiwi homes
More than 180,000 New Zealand homes will have access to grants for insulation and clean heating over the next four years, as part of a major investment in household energy efficiency.

"A large number of New Zealand homes are cold and damp because they are inadequately insulated. This scheme is an important step towards warmer homes as well as invigorating the retrofit industry," Energy and Resources Minister Gerry Brownlee says.

Budget 2009 $323.3 million over four years for a campaign to fit homes with insulation and clean heating devices such as heat pumps and approved wood burners. The scheme, which is open to owners and occupiers of houses built before 2000, will start on July 1 this year.

The New Zealand Insulation Fund's goal is to see up to 60,500 homes being insulated each year by 2012/13.

So yes there should be lots of work in this industry over the coming few years.

[Ngeru]

I might also add, that although 'heat pumps' are the new 'central heating' there's also lots of talk about inadequate electricity supply to service the increasing use of this 'clean heat'. So the government is giving grants for people to install heat pumps, yet the power companies don't have the capacity to cope with the increased electricity demands.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2518953/Heat-pump-sales-spark-power-fears

It's all a bit mad and typically short sighted!