[Sheldon]

I have been able to do a significant amount of research on this forum and on other forums with regards to emigration. It seems like there are two schools of thought with regards to leaving one's homeland and moving to another country.

The first school of thought is what I call the "All guns blazing approach". Based on the assumption that life in the new country will be as good as on the reccie, one emigrates with all guns blazing and burns every bridge with the homeland. Firmly believing that the new country will be a type of Utopia, one embarks on cancelling all investments, selling all properties, closing bank accounts, and bidding farewell to friends and family in a way that implies you might never see them again. On arrival in your new country, you make every effort to assimilate into your new identity. You start supporting the All Blacks when they play England (or South Africa), and you even try and change your accent. You have a never say die attitude that this is your new home, come what may, and you will live and die in this new motherland.

The second school of thought is what I call the "Safety net approach" Before you even move across you accept that a likely scenario will be months of unemployment and possibly, or at best menial work. In order to be cautious you maintain your ties with the homeland, and rent out your propert/ies (on the assumption that you have sufficient savings and don't initially need any equity). You tell friends and family that you are going for a year or two in order to try something new. You know it will be hard, and if things don't work out, you'll be back stronger and wiser for the experience. Once in the new country, you maintain your identity as a South African, or Brit. You enjoy learing more about the new culture, but you don't try and become an instant Kiwi.

The likely scenario upon landing in the new country is all too familiar. Unemployment becomes a reality, and homesickness bites. Hard. The first 3 months of euphoria give way to despair and, in some cases, depression. Some are able to stick it out, and eventually things start getting better. Eventually they turn the corner, and are able to forge a new life for themselves and their family. Others decide that they have had enough, and decide to return home.

At this point one needs to ask the question which of the two people described above is more likely to succeed in adversity, and assuming both return home, which of the two will do so more successfully? Surely the person who has the safety nets in place would find the initial adversity easier to manage? The mindset would be that one is facing a challenge, and if things don't work out, it's not the end of the world. After all, there are still meaningful ties with the homeland. For the other person, the challenges could easily become overwhelming given that they represent a massive potential failure. This leads to more despair, and ultimately capitulation and failure when the decision is made to go back.

Personally, I feel a lot of people are too hasty in their decision to emigrate, and after burning all bridges they return home broke, and with their tails between their legs. They are also less likely to return home when things are not working out due to a combination of a sense of pride, as well as the burnt bridges making it that much harder for them to do so. They try and stick it out, but ultimately they evenually go home anyway. Just read this forum for some examples.

Emigration isn't for everyone, we know that. I think that when planning to emigrate, one should assume the worst case scenario, and plan according to that worst case scenario. I'm not saying you should set yourself up to fail, or that there should be an element of a self fulfilling prophecy. Read the forums. Read about the difficulties. Know about the heartache, and face the facts that this could be you. Provide and plan for the worst, but aim for the best. If things work out, and you happily settle into your new life, then you can set about removing the safety nets, one at a time. Until then, leave them in place, and don't be too bold or too brave when you bid farewell to your homeland. You never know when you might have to return.

[JandM]

I'm seeing a lot of generalizations in this, Sheldon. You've painted pictures of two extreme cases. No individual is going to fit either one in all particulars, particularly as you have included assumptions about their mental attitudes, alongside descriptions of their actions. It's possible to arrive at the same actions, for very different internal reasons which a person might not share even with their close friends and family, still less on a public forum.

I entirely agree with the philosophy of planning for the worst while aiming for the best, but feel that each person will have to find THEIR most appropriate way of doing this. They won't necessarily resemble either of the very different stereotypes you've set up.

[2371]

Well said, thnx. r.

[Sheldon]

I'm seeing a lot of generalizations in this, Sheldon. You've painted pictures of two extreme cases. No individual is going to fit either one in all particulars, particularly as you have included assumptions about their mental attitudes, alongside descriptions of their actions. It's possible to arrive at the same actions, for very different internal reasons which a person might not share even with their close friends and family, still less on a public forum.

I entirely agree with the philosophy of planning for the worst while aiming for the best, but feel that each person will have to find THEIR most appropriate way of doing this. They won't necessarily resemble either of the very different stereotypes you've set up.

Point taken. No person will completely fit either of the two extremes. I have deliberately generalised and created two extremes to illustrate my point.

[Grey Granite]

I drew my husbands attention to your other post and we were discussing it last night. Not sure if he has seen it yet, but he was nodding his head in agreement with much of your first post..

I think we straddle the line between the two 'types' you describe, ie, yes, we've sold our flat (we've had to because we'd like to live with the same kind of mortgage commitment we have here, ie modest)... We've not burnt our bridges with our work - each of us saying we our partner has been given a job offer (not entirely untrue as I have had at least one phone interview and narrowly missed getting the job...) and we have options open for continuing contact or sourcing work for my former employers once I get to NZ... Keeping contacts and continuing on good terms is important wherever you go... isnt it?

We know it's not a holiday.
We know when we visited (5 and 4 weeks respectively) that we were looking thru tinted specs, and we have allowed for that.
Agencies have told us we are employable (both got degrees and experience).
We've gained residency without job offers.
We live modestly
We like Trade Me and Freecycle!
I think we are realistic...... we know we will miss friends and family - just dont know how we will react.

NZ is a working, exciting, living, breathing opportunity that we appreciate, and know that not everyone gets a chance to experience

NZ is not a 'band aid' for us, we know each other too well, have no secrets and as far as I know, there are no ghosts to chase us!

We, as a couple, know our foibles. We know we get crabby when we are tired or upset: we know how to support each other when we do.

We hope and intend to make this work: but we are big enough to know that it may not and if it doesnt, our ex-employers are willing and happy to re-employ us if need be.

Its all about preparation and expectation - and trying hard to be realistic.

By the way, I was listening to the NZ National Anthem on you tube today for the first time..... cant get it out of my head now...

Mrs Granite

[spudulike]

I'm seeing a lot of generalizations in this, Sheldon. You've painted pictures of two extreme cases. No individual is going to fit either one in all particulars, particularly as you have included assumptions about their mental attitudes, alongside descriptions of their actions. It's possible to arrive at the same actions, for very different internal reasons which a person might not share even with their close friends and family, still less on a public forum.



J&M - Absolutely!!

Sheldon: I don't know why you would create two extremes as you referred to in answer to J&M's post. I don't think people fall into either of those catagories and many who burn their bridges still have a sense of who they are and where they're from. I know of lots of people who have successfully emigrated who are fiercely proud of being British and of their heritage...

I'm not sure how anybody can respond in a constructive manner to so many sweeping generalisations. People have many reasons behind emigrating, those who return have many reasons too - and why should they go back with their tail between their legs?

Please don't think I'm annoyed - that's not the case. But I do disagree somewhat.

L :)

[Sheldon]

No worries. Thats what a forum is for!

[Kalla]

Agree with previous posters. It's too general and too extreme.

for example: we consider ourselves to fit inbetween these 2 cases: we are definitely going in 'all guns blazing' and having already made an immigration 10 years ago we feel this is THE VERY LAST MOVE we will make so we intend to make it work no matter what and settle and start a new life however, we have not been there on a reccie so have no idea of what to expect, we have also NOT burnt our bridges because we couldn't sell the house now even if we wanted to so we had to settle for renting it but also because we want to leave some investments here for the future (can't fault the strong £££) but also we are under no illusions that NZ will be 'utopia' and intend to take the good with the bad. It is, afterall, just another country with faults and problems of it's own - no-where is perfect!

I also intend to immerse myself in the kiwi culture because our son is so young that if we do stay there forever, he will be 100% kiwi so it's only fair to give him a sense of national identity that we ourselves lack because of living in more than 2 countries for over 10 years each time. However, my accent will probably not change and I will probably always support my home rugby team (which might cause rivalry with future kiwi friends but bring it on!!)

I do agree that planning for the worst case scenario is a good thing (ie having enough money saved in case of unemployment etc) and mainly a good, positive attitude!

I think there are so many factors involved in someones decision/plans to immigrate that it's not something you can box up into just 2 types.

[Sheldon]

I realise that I didnt make my original post clear enough. Sorry to have caused the confusion. My intention was not to box all emigrants into these two categories. My intention was to warn those people who fall into the all guns blazing category of the potential pit falls and encourage a bit of caution. Hope that helps people understand my line of thought.

[Kalla]

I realise that I didnt make my original post clear enough. Sorry to have caused the confusion. My intention was not to box all emigrants into these two categories. My intention was to warn those people who fall into the all guns blazing category of the potential pit falls and encourage a bit of caution. Hope that helps people understand my line of thought.

no worries! ;)

[Philip10]

I thought Sheldon's OP made many valuable points and I do feel that people on forum sometimes seek to be over critical of a post which does not state a completely positive view of the immigration process. This is often done under the guise of saying you are over generalising or commenting on an obvious hyperbole. I read Sheldon’s OP and like most people realised he was using generalisations to make an important point and to that extend I feel that his post is a valuable contribution to immigration process. One only has to read posts elsewhere on this forum to know that Sheldon is essentially right in what he his saying.

[pleccy2000]

It could be argued that if you keep a strong safety net (like me) you never really get your mind set into really living the NZ way because you always have half an eye on 'home'. The all guns blazing people might find it harder to return to their country of origin financially, but they might get more out of the experience.

[Sheldon]

Thanks Phillip. Pleccy I couldn't agree more with your opinion. The danger of the "safety nets" is that the person might not stick it out, and at the first hurdle they return home. Having the safety nets should be for the worst case scenario after all efforts have failed. Like I said in my original post, many people rush into emigration, and it's simply not for everyone. Most people only realise this when they have made the move, and having those safety nets in place softens the blow significantly for those who do end up going home. For the successful (fortunate) ones, it then becomes a process of removing the safety nets one at a time as you become more confident of your ability to settle successfully.

[JandM]

I do feel that people on forum sometimes seek to be over critical of a post which does not state a completely positive view of the immigration process. This is often done under the guise of saying you are over generalising or commenting on an obvious hyperbole. Well, this is absolutely NOT what I was doing. I felt, like you, that Sheldon's underlying message was a very useful one. The trouble I found with the posting was precisely what I said above, and that I've recently posted concerning a newspaper article full of generalizations about Kiwis... the generalizations themselves. I find being pigeon-holed, on the assumption that any ONE feature of my existence will have determined a whole swathe of others (particularly my thinking), is alienating. This, for me, gets in the way of other aspects of what the 'generalizer' wants to say.

I entirely agree, and I said so in my first reaction to Sheldon, with his basic philosophy on this point. I've gone through life with the attitude 'expect the best/prepare for the worst', taking 'expect' with overtones of putting in my order to the universe, while always being willing to roll up my sleeves and pile in as necessary.

[ExitStageSouth]

I'm not sure where I fit into the scheme of things. I've spent a number of years living outside of the UK and of the time I've lived in the UK as an adult I've spent most of it living in areas that I don't consider as home at all. If anything my main concern about the interview is that I may sound too relaxed about the whole thing as many of the problems of isolation/homesickness/culture-shock are kind of normality to me (that's not to say I don't think they're hard to deal with, it's just that I've done it enough not to be concerned that I won't be able to).

Those experiences have also left me pretty cold on the whole national pride thing too. While I'm sure I'll find plenty of parts of Kiwi culture that appeal, why should I be bothered if some of it doesn't? I don't fly the flag here, so I don't expect to do it there. Finding a place in a culture and society doesn't require immersion or absolute capitulation -- it's okay to be "other" as long as you're comfortable with it.

Finally, my personal safety-net isn't changing as I've never owned property and I'm not exactly cutting ties with my family and friends. Would keeping enough cash for the plane back be considered not giving it enough of a go? It seems like common sense to me.

[Sheldon]

Would keeping enough cash for the plane back be considered not giving it enough of a go? It seems like common sense to me.

Too right!:clap

[Shones]

Thanks for sharing your research and thoughts with us. Certainly enjoyed reading your comments and views (and those of people replying) for help think critically.

[Sheldon]

Thanks. Its an interesting topic to debate and discuss, especially in a recession.

[ourquest]

Thanks. Its an interesting topic to debate and discuss, especially in a recession.

Hey there Sheldon.
If there is any problem with generalisations it's that we all react so differently, experience things so differently, and prepare for things so differently.

I broadly agree with the two extremes you suggest though, and let's for the sake of argument assume they exist in exactly the form you describe.

I don't think it is quite as obvious how each of the two types react if forced to return to their countries of origin.

The "all guns blazing type" is probably less likely to react negatively if forced to return home, and more likely to "blaze the guns" in the other direction too. It's just the nature of that type of person. They embrace change, enjoy adventure and value their adaptability.

Those who are "safety net" types never quite adapt fully, at least not nearly as quickly, so they could actually return "home" with equal lack of commitment...and by "commitment" I refer to the "no going back" approach. Since living in limbo is a very real problem with emigration it would follow that because "safety net" types spend longer in effective limbo their adjustment period is inevitably much longer, in either direction.

As a result of the above I am not entirely sure that "guns blazing" type is something you could try to be. you either are it or you're not. It would be interesting to see the statistics on which type is generally a more successful settler. With the understanding that they are hypothetical extremes, my money would still have to be on the "guns blazing" ones. but those more tentative people need not fear. Each individual is completely and utterly unpredictably different.

[Rob&Don]

If we had to catagorise ourselves then we are definitely in the "all guns blazing" group. :nice1