[KatieBen]

NZ plugs are 10amps, correct? While UK plugs are 13.

So I was fully expecting some UK items not to work with a NZ plug on.

Our kettle is 3kW - so according to my calculations it will fuse the house if try and plug it in. However we've seen some for sale that are 2.4kW - so am I wrong? and if I'm not wrong, will we wreck the wiring of the rented house we haven't moved into yet by trying it?

[IanW99]

NZ plugs are 10amps, correct? While UK plugs are 13.

So I was fully expecting some UK items not to work with a NZ plug on.

Our kettle is 3kW - so according to my calculations it will fuse the house if try and plug it in. However we've seen some for sale that are 2.4kW - so am I wrong? and if I'm not wrong, will we wreck the wiring of the rented house we haven't moved into yet by trying it?

Yes NZ plugs are 10A and UK plugs are 13A.

10A = 2.4kW so this is OK.

13A = 3kW so this in NOT OK.

It isn't safe to use a 3kW kettle in a NZ wired house.

Anything over 2400W is potentially unsafe.

Ian

[KatieBen]

Bother. Anyone want a second hand kettle? :exit

Edit - many thanks for answering the question!

[bob_the_engineer]

It’s fine, just plug it in.

The wiring is fused to protect it, the outlet is set to allow all outlets to drive serially (unlike a ring in the UK, which is why you need a fuse in the plug for a UK outlet). Well at least that’s the idea but not always true, many NZ electricians will run more outlets because they know you wont run them all at maximum capacity simultaneously.

The worst you will do is trip the fuse, no big deal, and you’ll probably only do that if you happen to have several high powered things plugged in.

You won’t hurt the wiring because the fuse will protect it, and you can safely run 18A down a 2.5mm cable.

BS7671 amendment

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:CATtB5kMbGAJ:www.theiet.org/publishing/wiring-regulations/updates/amend1-02.cfm+current+rating+2.5mm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

Bob

[IanW99]

It’s fine, just plug it in.

...


Whilst I agree that it will almost certainly work and not be a problem especially as the kettle will only draw current for a small amount of time.

It doesn't make it safe, the plug and socket alone are only rated at 10A anything over that and they will be overloaded.

Anyone who has plugged in too many plugs into a multiway adapter knows the risks and the fuses if there are any won't necessarily blow especially as so many people will replace the correct fuse with the wrong one.

The house insurance policy will also be invalidated if you do use something that exceeds rated current, so is it really worth the risk (however small it may be)?

Ian

[AliIsmailNZ]

Bother. Anyone want a second hand kettle? :exit

Edit - many thanks for answering the question!

I am not sure if it is the same plug, you may have to buy an adapter probably with the same price of the kettle.

Get rid of it and buy new one with 2000W (up to 2400W depending on the input voltage).

[NikT]

It doesn't make it safe, the plug and socket alone are only rated at 10A anything over that and they will be overloaded.

Anyone who has plugged in too many plugs into a multiway adapter knows the risks and the fuses if there are any won't necessarily blow especially as so many people will replace the correct fuse with the wrong one.

Ian

Exactly. The socket outlet and plug is only rated at 10A.
The contacts in the socket will soon burn out at anything above 10A:yes
Seen it numerous times.
I've been to a few places where people have overloaded a socket. Not pretty.

The wiring to the socket will be rated a lot higher.

The wiring should allow a 15A socket to be fitted, but you must get this done by a registered sparky with a current practicing licence.

2.5mm TPS cable takes around 25A depending on conditions.;)
Figures should be taken from AS/NZS 3008 and not the UK BS7671.

Nick.:cheers

[Super_BQ]

I'm leaning more toward's Bob's view. The circuit breaker will decide, not so much the contacts in the mains plugs. If these mains outlets burn out before the breaker trips, then I would suggest they're cheap quality. So much of that stuff is made in China so the quality control ain't the same what it use to be for vintage PDL outless.

I would be curious to know if that UK kettle actually draws 13 amps?

BQ

[NikT]

I'm leaning more toward's Bob's view. The circuit breaker will decide, not so much the contacts in the mains plugs. If these mains outlets burn out before the breaker trips, then I would suggest they're cheap quality. So much of that stuff is made in China so the quality control ain't the same what it use to be for vintage PDL outless.

I would be curious to know if that UK kettle actually draws 13 amps?

BQ

The 10Amp rating is there for a reason. Not for fun.
The circuit breaker for socket circuits will usually be at 16A or 20A.

3KW will draw 13.04A
So, a 3KW jug pulls over 13A, well above what the socket and plug is rated at.
And the MCB won't trip. Work out what happens next.

Nick.:cheers

[TheNaylors]

having read all this I have realised I am going to have to leave my beloved slow cooker behind :wah:wah:wah

anybody know where we can get a new one? :D lol!

[IanW99]

having read all this I have realised I am going to have to leave my beloved slow cooker behind :wah:wah:wah

anybody know where we can get a new one? :D lol!

Why?

Slow cookers don't normally take any where near that much power typically between 200-400W which is fine.

Ian

[dusk]

but if you need one there's always some for sale in Briscoes ;)

[bobo]

It’s fine, just plug it in.

The wiring is fused to protect it, the outlet is set to allow all outlets to drive serially (unlike a ring in the UK, which is why you need a fuse in the plug for a UK outlet).

Radial Circuits are still parallel circuits.

[bobo]

The circuit breaker will decide, not so much the contacts in the mains plugs. If these mains outlets burn out before the breaker trips, then I would suggest they're cheap quality.

Putting all your eggs in one basket here. MCB's can be faulty, thats why they recomend testing regularly.

[bobo]

Exactly. The socket outlet and plug is only rated at 10A.
The contacts in the socket will soon burn out at anything above 10A:yes


There is a safety margin built into these things so that they can handle fault conditions. You have to allow for large sustained voltage drops on the network, short circuits in appliances etc. So I would expect a skt to carry a good bit more that 10 amps for short periods of time.

However I do agree you should never load a socket/plug above its rating as you have removed/ reduced this safety margin. i.e. an over rated kettle which no longer switches off after getting to the boil.

[925dancer]

Seems I'm very naughty! I brought over my really rather lovely retro pink kettle knowing I wouldn't find one here, not one I could afford at any rate and have it plugged into an adaptor into the wall. Been using it for about 3 months now:exit

[IanW99]

Seems I'm very naughty! I brought over my really rather lovely retro pink kettle knowing I wouldn't find one here, not one I could afford at any rate and have it plugged into an adaptor into the wall. Been using it for about 3 months now:exit

Not all kettles from the UK will use too much power, so worth checking that first to make sure.

What adaptor are you using? Not all can even cope with 10A so would check that out straight away - should be printed on the adaptor.

Ian

[grady bunch]

Having been here for 6 months, using UK kettle, microwave, toaster, hairdryer.....etc etc. I will now be reading all ratings and what my adapters which they are plugged in, say.

Whoops.

Thanks for the safety tips!

The Gradys

[TheNaylors]

Why?

Slow cookers don't normally take any where near that much power typically between 200-400W which is fine.

Ian

Thanks Ian.

probably me just being really thick :o and I have to admit...I am no good when it comes to electricity :uhoh

I haven't been able to find anything on what wattage the slow cooker used, all I knew was it was on a 13A fuse and so assumed the worst :D

Thanks for the advice everyone...interesting thread

[IanW99]

...
I haven't been able to find anything on what wattage the slow cooker used, all I knew was it was on a 13A fuse and so assumed the worst :D

Thanks for the advice everyone...interesting thread

You should normally find it printed on a label next to where the mains lead enters the appliance, or the back or bottom of it.

Normally it will say e.g. 240V 220W but it may say current instead e.g. 240V 1.3A etc.

If you can't find it, then check in the manual which should list it - normally at the back under specification.

As long as it is 2400W or less, or 10A or less then no problems.

Ian

[victoria24]

bit confused here as nz appliances arent fused by design so that would leave me to believe that the consumer unit must be the safety valve so to speak on the system?

[bob_the_engineer]

Radial Circuits are still parallel circuits.

When I’m wrong, I make a point of saying so, if someone points out that I’m wrong particularly after I initially disagree with them I always eat humble pie and apologise, well I'm right, your wrong, over to you :D

http://www.simplifydiy.com/electrical/domestic-electrics/electrical-circuits


Bob (em em the engineer, pusher of electrons and so on :laugh)

[andy141]

Seems I'm very naughty! I brought over my really rather lovely retro pink kettle knowing I wouldn't find one here, not one I could afford at any rate and have it plugged into an adaptor into the wall. Been using it for about 3 months now:exit
The prolonged use of an adapter is not recommended. They are only designed for short term use eg on holiday etc.
So when you move to New Zealand all the electical gizmos you bring with you should be fitted with Kiwi plugs as soon as possible.

[bobo]

When I’m wrong, I make a point of saying so, if someone points out that I’m wrong particularly after I initially disagree with them I always eat humble pie and apologise, well I'm right, your wrong, over to you :D

http://www.simplifydiy.com/electrical/domestic-electrics/electrical-circuits


Bob (em em the engineer, pusher of electrons and so on :laugh)

If it was a serial circuit it would not have 240v over each load, basic Kirchoff's voltage law. Just because there is only one cable (TE) from the consumer unit does not make a serial circuit, its still parallel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits

Over to you!!!!!:exit

[BigRod]

If it was a serial circuit it would not have 240v over each load, basic Kirchoff's voltage law. Just because there is only one cable (TE) from the consumer unit does not make a serial circuit, its still parallel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits

Over to you!!!!!:exit

OK - I'll the arbiter:

You are *both* right and *both* wrong!!!

The points are still a parallel circuit, i.e. 230 V (note Bobo that in NZ and AUS the voltage is 230 V and has been for many years).

They are not a series circuit.

Bob stated that they had been connected serially (not saying it was a series circuit); which is exactly what they are in a radial circuit as opposed to the ring circuits that provide a double path in the UK. i.e. each hot point forms a serial of parallel connected pins.
:exit

[collinssteve]

I know this is slightly off-topic but, since we're talking about electricity ...

Is it possible to get 3-phase supply to a residential property in NZ? If so, does anyone have any idea of the cost of an upgrade?

(This is for powering a glass-fusing kiln!!)

Thanks,
Steve

[BigRod]

Steve,

Yes it is possible; if you look up at the power line you will see all three phases going down the street. Usually the load is balanced by splitting different phases to different properties. A domestic 3-Phase supply can be had, for about 3x the cost of a single phase supply (eeek!!).

If your power requirement from the phases is not high it might be more economic to put an inverter on a 20 Amp (4.6 kW) single phase supply.

I have also hear rumours of people chucking wires onto the overhead lines to tap the phases themselves ..... but not to be recommended!!!!

Rod

[PeteS]

I know this is slightly off-topic but, since we're talking about electricity ...

Is it possible to get 3-phase supply to a residential property in NZ? If so, does anyone have any idea of the cost of an upgrade?

(This is for powering a glass-fusing kiln!!)

Thanks,
Steve

Rural - yes, in town, no.

We are on a tp supply, but it's only 35 amps per phase. In town you would get 60 amps on a single phase. And as for a 100 amp domestic? This is NZ, forget it.

How many kW is the kiln? It may be possible to run off of a single phase supply.

[bobo]

OK - I'll the arbiter:

You are *both* right and *both* wrong!!!

The points are still a parallel circuit, i.e. 230 V (note Bobo that in NZ and AUS the voltage is 230 V and has been for many years).

They are not a series circuit.

Bob stated that they had been connected serially (not saying it was a series circuit); which is exactly what they are in a radial circuit as opposed to the ring circuits that provide a double path in the UK. i.e. each hot point forms a serial of parallel connected pins.
:exit

Yes I know that its 230v but as I am old I still talk about 240/415V. I even worked as a distribution design engineer at the time the UK changed to 230V so no excuses,

Also knew exactly what Bob meant was just being pedantic for fun due to his profession, a pusher of electrons or something.

If they are connected serially then its a series circuit, but they are not they are connected parallelllllly

[collinssteve]

Thanks for your replies.

The kiln is 20A so perhaps it could be run off a single phase 35A supply with an inverter.

We're planning to move to Waiheke Island so I'm guessing that would be classed as rural (i.e. 35A supply)? Is there anywhere to look this up? Waiheke might even be its own special case!

35A isn't much though is it? I was planning on bringing an electric oven and kettle. If I switched both on at the same time I could blow the main breaker!

[bob_the_engineer]

Thanks for your replies.

The kiln is 20A so perhaps it could be run off a single phase 35A supply with an inverter.

We're planning to move to Waiheke Island so I'm guessing that would be classed as rural (i.e. 35A supply)? Is there anywhere to look this up? Waiheke might even be its own special case!

35A isn't much though is it? I was planning on bringing an electric oven and kettle. If I switched both on at the same time I could blow the main breaker!


As you said you can get a converter but a 3-phase generator may be an option.

Bob

[bob_the_engineer]

OK - I'll the arbiter:

You are *both* right and *both* wrong!!!

The points are still a parallel circuit, i.e. 230 V (note Bobo that in NZ and AUS the voltage is 230 V and has been for many years).

They are not a series circuit.

Bob stated that they had been connected serially (not saying it was a series circuit); which is exactly what they are in a radial circuit as opposed to the ring circuits that provide a double path in the UK. i.e. each hot point forms a serial of parallel connected pins.
:exit


Thanks for that BigRod :D

I thought bobo was just a confused layman, to be honest I simply gave up trying to explain this (and I guess I’m guilty of making a joke too).

I suppose this sort of banter doesn’t help answer genuine questions though.

Bob

[KatieBen]

Am now confused as to whether I should be using the kettle or not :) after reading Bob's reply have been merrily using 3kW kettle (retro blue!) with no problems at socket or trip switch. I don't have it plugged in to a multiway adaptor, it's been rewired with an NZ plug and is the only thing in its socket (other kitchen apps plugged into multiway in neighbouring socket). Sadly rewiring plug cost $3 & new kettle will be at least 10 times that.

So back to original question - should I replace it? And where can I get a kettle that glows blue when it boils from?

[bobo]

Am now confused as to whether I should be using the kettle or not :) after reading Bob's reply have been merrily using 3kW kettle (retro blue!) with no problems at socket or trip switch. I don't have it plugged in to a multiway adaptor, it's been rewired with an NZ plug and is the only thing in its socket (other kitchen apps plugged into multiway in neighbouring socket). Sadly rewiring plug cost $3 & new kettle will be at least 10 times that.

So back to original question - should I replace it? And where can I get a kettle that glows blue when it boils from?

Technically no you should not be using it as it is rated above 10amps.

[IanW99]

Am now confused as to whether I should be using the kettle or not :) after reading Bob's reply have been merrily using 3kW kettle (retro blue!) with no problems at socket or trip switch. I don't have it plugged in to a multiway adaptor, it's been rewired with an NZ plug and is the only thing in its socket (other kitchen apps plugged into multiway in neighbouring socket). Sadly rewiring plug cost $3 & new kettle will be at least 10 times that.

So back to original question - should I replace it? And where can I get a kettle that glows blue when it boils from?

Yep, the problem is that the trip switch (likely) won't activate, this is why it is such a potential problem.

Normal plugs and the socket are definitely only rated as being safe up to 10A and shouldn't be used with anything that takes more than this.

It was mentioned on another thread that some houses have a higher rated socket next to the cooker, if this is the case then you may be able to use that socket safetly (not seen one myself so can't comment).

At the end of the day it is all about safety and risk, whilst the risk is very low, it isn't safe (IMO).

BTW, I've seen a glowing kettle in Dick Smith so they must be about.

Ian

[PeteS]

Oficially 10 amps is the limit. But we have some higher powered stuff that gets used from time to time and it makes no difference to anything. So the reality is don't worry, if you've got it and you like it, bring it over and use it. When it breaks, buy the Kiwi version.

You can get 15 amp outlets fitted, but you need a plug with a different sized earth pin so that's quite limiting on where you can use the item. Not worth the bother, IMHO.

35 amp three phase incomer limiting on power? Not really, it's the same amount of electrical energy as a 105 amp single phase, at a touch over 24kVA. You just need to watch peak demand, but you can spread the load across three phases if you wish.

[bobo]

It was mentioned on another thread that some houses have a higher rated socket next to the cooker, if this is the case then you may be able to use that socket safetly (not seen one myself so can't comment).


It was me that mentioned this and it was a skt built into the cooker. I have not seen in NZ a cooker switch with a skt as found in the UK.



At the end of the day it is all about safety and risk, whilst the risk is very low, it isn't safe (IMO).


Totally agree, I cannot recommend to anyone that they plug an overrated appliance into a skt, ( I have in the past but I was wrong to do so)

[andy141]

Normal plugs and the socket are definitely only rated as being safe up to 10A and shouldn't be used with anything that takes more than this.


Ian

So how come multi way adapters are on sale? At the end of the day you could have several appliances rated at 2.3kW plugged into the adapter all being fed from a single unfused connector plugged into the wall!! At least, here in the UK, ALL mains plugs have built in fuses not only to protect cable connecting the device but the house wiring as well.

[IanW99]

So how come multi way adapters are on sale? At the end of the day you could have several appliances rated at 2.3kW plugged into the adapter all being fed from a single unfused connector plugged into the wall!! At least, here in the UK, ALL mains plugs have built in fuses not only to protect cable connecting the device but the house wiring as well.

Multi-way adapters (or power boards) are on sale because people require to be able to plug in more than one appliance to a single socket.

If you check NZ power boards you will find that they normally include overload protection just for this very reason that some users may inadvertently plug in several devices that combined exceed the 2400W 10A load.

For example, a specification for a 4-way NZ adapter is:

1.8 metre lead
Voltage 230-240Vac
Current 10A Max
Power 2400W Max

You will see that it is still 10A Max.

Ian

[petri]

I think that's how it done in most parts of the world.

Off the head I cannot remember any other country than UK where you find small fuses everywhere.

[bobo]

I think that's how it done in most parts of the world.

Off the head I cannot remember any other country than UK where you find small fuses everywhere.


Its used in a few countries, some even have more than one type as standard

http://www.kropla.com/!g.htm

[bob_the_engineer]

Multi-way adapters (or power boards) are on sale because people require to be able to plug in more than one appliance to a single socket.

If you check NZ power boards you will find that they normally include overload protection just for this very reason that some users may inadvertently plug in several devices that combined exceed the 2400W 10A load.

For example, a specification for a 4-way NZ adapter is:

1.8 metre lead
Voltage 230-240Vac
Current 10A Max
Power 2400W Max

You will see that it is still 10A Max.

Ian

from your last post

"Yep, the problem is that the trip switch (likely) won't activate, this is why it is such a potential problem."

so plug the kettle in its fine eh...

Bob

[IanW99]

from your last post

"Yep, the problem is that the trip switch (likely) won't activate, this is why it is such a potential problem."

so plug the kettle in its fine eh...

Bob

If its a NZ Kettle, then yes it will be fine.

Ian

[catt]

Watch out for the oil heaters you bring over and change the plug on........if you dont tighten up the wire well into the plug you change it to then it will burn out the socket.........its happened to us twice now the first one was part of a 4 plug wall socket and cost me $174 to replace the second one was last week and i got Tom the Pom (Casey on ENZ) to fix it and he told me the reason why they burn out and charged me a much more reasonable rate .......... beware!!!!!

[IanW99]

Watch out for the oil heaters you bring over and change the plug on........if you dont tighten up the wire well into the plug you change it to then it will burn out the socket.........its happened to us twice now the first one was part of a 4 plug wall socket and cost me $174 to replace the second one was last week and i got Tom the Pom (Casey on ENZ) to fix it and he told me the reason why they burn out and charged me a much more reasonable rate .......... beware!!!!!

Oil heaters and heaters in general from the UK have the same issues as Kettles being discussed on this thread i.e. they may have a higher rating than the plug and socket are rated to handle and can burn out.

As with other appliances you need to check that it isn't rated at more than 2400W or 10A, many (from the UK) will be rated higher than this.

This issue is potentially much worse than a kettle which will only be on for a couple of minutes (the time taken to boil), the heater is likely to be left on all evening and possibly even left on when no one is present.

Ian