[925dancer]

I handed my notice in today and am trying to get out of work earlier than my one month notice.

Now they have said or maybe more implied, I kind of switch off these day, that I will sacrifice my accrued holiday pay or part thereof in lieu of working my full notice. Now I am pretty much prepared to do this just to get out of hell but I was just curious how I stand legally with this. Surely if I am due two weeks holiday then they can count that in my notice?

Maybe not, I've never had to deal with this before.

[925dancer]

Found this http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/relationships/ending_print.html

Once again, dreading telling them I know this but got to do what I've got to do now.

Pertinent part being:

Resignation

Employees may resign at any time, provided they give reasonable notice (i.e. saying ahead of time what date they plan to leave). What is reasonable will depend on the circumstances, such as length of service or seniority, or what is agreed in the employment agreement.

Giving notice & final payment

If the employee gives the required notice, the employer must pay the employee to the end of the notice period, unless the employee is justifiably dismissed during that period. The employment relationship continues until that date.

The employee may be required to work for the full notice period or may be asked to stop coming to work before this date. In either case, the employee should be paid to the end of the notice period. If pay is stopped before the end of the notice period, the employee may be able to claim for wages owed.

If an employee leaves work without giving notice, the employer is not required to pay for time beyond the employee's last actual working day. The employer must not deduct pay in lieu of notice from any amount owed to the employee unless the employee agrees in writing or the employment agreement specifically allows it.

The employer must pay all holiday pay owing [http://ers.govt.nz/holidays_act_2003/calculate_pay.html] to the employee in the pay for the employee's final period of employment.

[eternalkiwi]

It may pay to double check if your employment agreement (contract) does mention if holiday pay will deducted in lieu of notice, as a clause allowing employers to do this is not uncommon. Otherwise your holiday pay does belong to you.

Shawn

[chocolate cake]

Certainly in no way should you sacfrice your entitlement to holiday pay. Regarding notice I guess it depends what was in your contract, a month is usually the norm. I'd guess you could finish early by taking some of your notice as holiday, but that's really negotiable about you or they want to allow it.

[925dancer]

Right, looked at my contract.

It states that if an employee does not give the required Notice as stated herein (one month), the the employer reserves the right to deduct the equivalent monies from the Employer's final pay.

Now, does that include holiday pay or is that a separate issue? Would the above be deemed an unfair term?

[Duncan74]

Wasn't there a thread a few months ago that said that it was common in NZ that you only get your first years 'holiday' credited at the end of the year, ie anything before that is counted as unpaid leave'. Once you've done your year then it's more like the UK. However, all that should be in your contract.

[925dancer]

Something like that Duncan. I am currently accrueing holidays that I cannot take till next year. On my payslip it states how many hours I have built up but I cannot technically use them yet. I am still entitled to that holiday pay when I leave though.

[cappuccino]

See if you can get an appointment at one of the free legal advice centres. I know there is one in Wellington that on a particular day/evening deals with employment law. You must have something similar where you are. Go to the Citizens Advice Bureau and they will tell you where this free legal advice can be found. Good luck.

[James 1077]

Sometimes employers are able to make you to take any holidays accrued during your notice period (ie if your notice period is 4 weeks and you have 2 weeks accrued then you work for 2 weeks and take 2 weeks holiday). This means that you won't get paid for the holiday (but at least you don't have to work the full period). Note that normally they can't make you take more than 2 weeks and sometimes it is less (you have the choice of when to take 2 weeks of your leave every year - the employer may decide on the other 2 weeks).

If they are making you work the full 4 weeks and you still lose the holiday pay then that is more of an issue. The Holiday Act covers what you are entitled to; which varies depending on how long you have worked for the employer.

Details are here:
http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/holidays_act_2003/resignation.html

In summary, if you have worked at the employer for less than a year, then you are entitled to payment of 8% of your gross earnings during the period you have worked less any payments for holidays taken during the period. More than a year and it turns into holiday accrued at your average weekly earnings.

[925dancer]

I think what they want to do is either make me work the four week notice which I'm not going to do or deduct two weeks from my final pay in lieu of proper notice. My final pay would include the holiday pay and then they would deduct those weeks.

Bit harsh if you ask me but I called their bluff this morning and said I'm not doing the full month, you do what you need to do. They haven't come back to me yet.

[Fern01]

I think what they want to do is either make me work the four week notice which I'm not going to do or deduct two weeks from my final pay in lieu of proper notice. My final pay would include the holiday pay and then they would deduct those weeks
Seems to me you want it all ways. If you are not prepared to work out your notice then you can't expect to have the employer sympathetic to you. It cuts both ways.

[925dancer]

While I understand your point of view and have said I will just accept my fate you need to read how I have been treated by this employer over the last few months.

If I wasn't on the verge of going into a very black hole of depression and stress related illness then I would happily work my four weeks notice. As it is I am not sleeping properly, am not eating properly, have some eczema that has flared up and cry at the drop of a hat. All things that have never affected me before.

It is effectively constructive dismissal and they would have to be blind not to see that that's the case.

But I'm getting out and that's the most important thing.

[dusk]

That's definitely the best way to think of it Shona - get out of there in as short a time as possible and don't worry too much about the details :)

I'm a little confused by the lostics though tbh - what I would think should happen is that if they owe you holiday days/pay then they can either pay you whatever that amounts to or shorten your notice period by that amount (and pay you holday pay, as you would essentially be on holida)...

They shoudln't say you can have 2 weeks notice, only pay you for 2 weeks and ALSO deduct holiday pay, as that is them essentially saying you can't have your holiday pay - but if you can take the financial hit I'm sure it's better for your mental health to get out of there asap!!

keep us up to date with how things are going.

[925dancer]

I can't really take the financial hit but there's not much else for it. I would agree with you Dusk, I can't really get my head round it either!

I am also miffed that I didn't book my flight last night when it was $1100 with AirNZ. Checked this morning and it's rocketed up to $1950! So if anyone know of any deals let me me know.

I also tried to book with Singapore Airlines but they don't like you using a credit card not owned by you (my Mum is paying for the flight as I don't own a credit card and have nothing in my UK account). You have to have the card holders identity verified and confirm they are happy to pay for it at a branch. Where are their branches in the UK? London and Manchester. Most useful to someone living in Edinburgh!

[victoria24]

you could be a bit cheeky and say you were going to work for a competitor. they may put you on gardening leave then

[Sam B]

Why don't you go off on stress leave? You are describing the symptoms of anxiety and stress and should have no difficulty getting a cert from your GP.

[925dancer]

But would my employer be obliged to pay me? I am still not entitled to sick pay so that could work against me although the idea of putting two big fingers up at them by being signed off with stress would be amazing!

[925dancer]

Owner is now going through all of my emails, oh the joy. Obviously trying to dig up some sort of dirt as calling my bluff about my Mum didn't work. Shame I have pretty much never sent a personal email from work, no dirt to find.

[victoria24]

based in what you've described, I'd vamoose now and stuff the cashola

[bobo]

I can't really take the financial hit but there's not much else for it. I would agree with you Dusk, I can't really get my head round it either!

I am also miffed that I didn't book my flight last night when it was $1100 with AirNZ. Checked this morning and it's rocketed up to $1950! So if anyone know of any deals let me me know.

I also tried to book with Singapore Airlines but they don't like you using a credit card not owned by you (my Mum is paying for the flight as I don't own a credit card and have nothing in my UK account). You have to have the card holders identity verified and confirm they are happy to pay for it at a branch. Where are their branches in the UK? London and Manchester. Most useful to someone living in Edinburgh!

Can you fly Emirates, The go direct to weggie land and I have booked online with MIL card.

[eassae]

It sounds like your best bet at this point is to go out in style. It will help your moral way more than two weeks pay will help your wallet.

As a person that has left many jobs with shall we say flair, I can offer some suggestions if you want.:) I am not being flippant, you will really feel fantastic.

[925dancer]

I have to be careful, they are also my property managers and have to agree to the release of my bond. Bit difficult to take them to the tenancy tribunal from the UK and they will be more than aware of that. I need that money to live on till I find a job in the UK!

Once again, if I had a little stash of money squirrelled away I would walk out the door without a second glance back and tell them exactly what I think but I am broke and need the money desperately. I have 7 more working days to endure and at this point it really is an endurance race.

Haven't slept properly for well over a week, bought steroid cream for the eczema today, broke down and had a little cry in front of one of the bosses today, have no appetite and have only eaten some crisps and a handful of peanuts and raisins all day. If I didn't need that money, not quite like it but need it, I'd be long gone as I am falling apart at the seams.

I also managed to balls up my flight booking too. I now have an overnight stop in Singapore with no way of booking the hotel as the cardholder has to be the traveller and I have no credit card, only an eftpos and no money in my UK account. I think the universe has got it in for me right now.

[James 1077]

I also managed to balls up my flight booking too. I now have an overnight stop in Singapore with no way of booking the hotel as the cardholder has to be the traveller and I have no credit card, only an eftpos and no money in my UK account. I think the universe has got it in for me right now.

Singapore airport isn't the worst place to spend time (I've done a 9 hour stretch there before). There is a swimming pool and you may be able to figure out a way of staying in the airport hotel (get someone in your family to wire transfer you a small loan for spending money perhaps?).

The other thing you can do there for free is a trip into Singapore itself - you get bussed around and get to stretch your legs if you want. Otherwise just chill out by the pool!