[GrumpyGoat]

We try to stay away from all processed foods. So, it has taken me a year in New Zealand to see a bottle of Coca Cola up close. And, of course, I immediately read the ingredients and it says CANE SUGAR!!!:nice1

Next, I went on a quest looking for that (evil) ingredient--high fructose corn syrup. And I can't find it in anything.

Can this be possible???

It's like I died and went to heaven....

I LOVE NEW ZEALAND!!

[James 1077]

I don't think that all that many countries (other than the US) have high fructose corn syrup in their food and drink. Europe has strict quotas on its production which means that it is cheaper to just use sugar (it is called something else in Europe though - isoglucose I think).

The US uses it as they produce vast quantities of maize from which it is produced. It also produces relatively little sugar (mainly from beet) which it artifically prices high in order to protect the sugar industry from cheaper imports. Because of this high fructose corn syrup is cheap and therefore used instead of sugar.

And no, I can't tell you how I know all this random rubbish! :)

[BkyMonster]

Yes, that's true. The US subsidizes corn production quite a bit which makes HFCS, corn silage as animal feed, and other corn byproducts common (and cheap) in the US and much less so elsewhere.
There really isn't a whole lot of corn anything in NZ when compared to the US.

New Zealand doesn't actually subsidize any crop, which is something I wouldn't have thought would work, but there you go.

[eassae]

I haven't seen HFCS here either. I buy almost nothing in packages, but when I do, I often come across various preservatives that aren't identified.

Also watch out for the palm oil. Not bad for you, but bad for the environment.

[dilanium]

you can find HFCS but mainly in imported items. Some imported root beer and Dr. Pepper has it, while others do not (depending on where it came from).

[GrumpyGoat]

you can find HFCS but mainly in imported items. Some imported root beer and Dr. Pepper has it, while others do not (depending on where it came from).

Well, then, we are safe. I only buy local (except for bananas, of course). And I have an absolute ban on buying american (mostly due to the genetic engineering issue)

We still won't be drinking soda. But I am glad that the HFCS issue is no longer haunting me. (the children are offered so much junk while out)

Because I have my hands full cross referencing all my brands on the greenpeace genetic engineering index, double checking ingredient lists for hidden chemicals, and maintaining a variety of boycotts.:laugh

Did you see the article about Ribena? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/27/schoolsworldwide.foodanddrink) Seems Glaxo Smith Kline (the big pharmaceutical company) owns Ribena and has been caught misleading regarding the amount of Vitamin C in it's product. The story is old (but new to me) and we don't drink processed juices but I was very concerned to learn that pharmaceutical companies are lurking on the grocer's shelves.:uhoh

[dilanium]

you do need to be careful here as far as chemicals go- they do put many things in under colouring, etc and just list the chemical numbers.

[GrumpyGoat]

you do need to be careful here as far as chemicals go- they do put many things in under colouring, etc and just list the chemical numbers.

yeah, I hate those numbered ingredients. But I got a little book with all of them in there. forgot where I got it though.

[dilanium]

hehe, we just use my husband's iPhone and look them up on the internet as we go.

[Ally Bally Bee]

Ribena has now got its vitamin c levels sorted thanks to those pesky schoolgirls!

My husband's favourite bugbear is modified corn starch and hydrolysed anything - those products immediately go back on the shelf. Our shopping generally consists of meat, vegetables, tinned tomatoes and dairy. I do my own baking so know exactly what is in the cake I'm eating.

[JasonS]

you can find HFCS but mainly in imported items. Some imported root beer and Dr. Pepper has it, while others do not (depending on where it came from).

yes, i have seen it on mostly imported items as well. funny, you can buy heinz ketchup here at the store that comes from Oz and it has sugar, but the heinz ketchup packets (sachets) at micky Ds and Wendys Old Fashioned hamburgers must be imported from the US because they have HFCS in them.

laurel

[GreenMeansGo]

Oh I am so happy to read this! As a family we are making the shift to healthier/whole, well, my kids are pretty healthy eaters, it's mostly just me and hubby that have a few bad habits :o Do as I say and not as I do, right?? :uhoh
Ah well, we're working on it!

I'd never heard of Ribena before... good for those 'pesky schoolgirls'! (anyone else thinking ScoobyDoo on that one? :laugh)

[carahafner]

This is one of the first things I noticed as I am a big label reader! The lack of high fructose corn syrup here in NZ is a miracle of God to my estimation:nice1

And thanks for the explanation James 1077. Hubby and I were discussing this and came to a similar conclusion.

[dilanium]

Just for those who are not here yet and are curious (and because I'm taking a break from studying) here's the ingredients on the bottle of Coca-Cola Vanilla that I'm drinking:
Carbonated purified water, Cane Sugar, Colour (Caramel 150d), Food Acid (338), Flavour, Caffeine. {and then it says} Contains Caffeine {really? wow}

[JasonS]

Just for those who are not here yet and are curious (and because I'm taking a break from studying) here's the ingredients on the bottle of Coca-Cola Vanilla that I'm drinking:
Carbonated purified water, Cane Sugar, Colour (Caramel 150d), Food Acid (338), Flavour, Caffeine. {and then it says} Contains Caffeine {really? wow}

where did you find vanilla coke??? :uhoh i have not seen that here yet.

laurel

[dilanium]

I found it at a BP.

[Super_BQ]

I still don't see the fuss about consuming HFCS? I recall watching some Close-Up or 60 Minutes show a year ago that in NZ they still use nasty preservatives and food colouring that is banned for use in the USA.

It surprises me how so many ppl in NZ are drawn out to believe the 4 million people in this country can know better than the 350 million people living in N. America. Personally if the FDA bans a substance for consumption in America, then why would people in NZ disagree? Likewise, if HFCS is so bad in NZ, then why are so many people drinking it over in America?

Jump off the Green Peace boat and let the cold water wake you up.

[dilanium]

Jump off the Green Peace boat and let the cold water wake you up.

I feel that comment was a little unnecessary.

But as for the rest of what you said, I didn't drink HFCS in the US either, it's a personal choice to consume something less processed (and to me things taste much better with other forms of sugar than HFCS).

Also- just because the FDA says it is so, does not make it true.

Not to say I agree with everything NZ does either (for instance the liberal use of 1080).

[Jo Jo]

It surprises me how so many ppl in NZ are drawn out to believe the 4 million people in this country can know better than the 350 million people living in N. America. Personally if the FDA bans a substance for consumption in America, then why would people in NZ disagree?

There are many things that are banned in the US by the FDA, but not banned in other countries, and vice versa.



Also- just because the FDA says it is so, does not make it true.

Not to say I agree with everything NZ does either (for instance the liberal use of 1080).

Quite.

[sophiedb]

Speaking of assorted boycotts, has anyone else heard that Nestlé seems to be fixing its beady eyes on Cadburys again?

I really hope that never goes through - not that I eat vast quantities of choccy, but something easily available now and then is NICE.

[IanW99]

...
It surprises me how so many ppl in NZ are drawn out to believe the 4 million people in this country can know better than the 350 million people living in N. America.
...


So let me understand your argument, if 350 million people (currently US population is put at a more conservative 305 million) don't have a say in what is put in their food then they must be right?

Interesting argument, if you consider Europe with its population of 830 million people who don't consume HFCS against USA of 305 million who do, now who would you say were wrong the majority, or the minority?

Statistics are all wonderful but they certainly don't tell you who is right or wrong on the subject.

I have no idea whether there are health risks associated with HFCS but I certainly wouldn't use the argument that it must be OK because so many people consume it, after all they used to say that about tobacco (and no I'm not comparing them).

Ian

[m.brad.russell]

Hi all -

Before getting to carried away with whole high fructose corn syrup panic, realize that there has been much confusion about it's dangers and what it really is. Here's a link that outlines some of the fact and myths about it.

http://www.sweetsurprise.com/myths-and-facts

I try not to eat a lot of sugars anyway, but I also subscribe to the "anything in moderation" school of thought when it comes to food.

Happy reading...

Brad

[GrumpyGoat]

Sorry, Brad, I don't know if you realize that you gave us a link for the Corn Refiner's Association? These are the people who produce the HFCS. It is PR (propaganda) site and I wouldn't trust a word on it since they are trying to sell HFCS.

This link (http://www.naturalnews.com/024466.html)and this link (http://healthmad.com/nutrition/dangers-of-high-fructose-corn-syrup/)have a more accurate portrayal of the dangers.

The first link is really great. And discusses the PR campaign to convince you that HFCS is safe and natural because it is made of corn--it is made of corn but it is NOT safe or natural.

[James 1077]

It is PR (propaganda) site and I wouldn't trust a word on it since they are trying to sell HFCS.

This link (http://www.naturalnews.com/024466.html)and this link (http://healthmad.com/nutrition/dangers-of-high-fructose-corn-syrup/)have a more accurate portrayal of the dangers.



I don't know (or care) one way or another about HFCS but am not sure I would trust any natural living propaganda site any more than a company's site.

It is similar to NGOs like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth - I don't trust them any more than anyone else as they too are in it for the money and actively want to bring everyone around to their way of thinking. Worse still on smaller single issue NGOs they won't get any money if what they are campaigning against isn't an issue so it is in their interest to keep pushing regardless of the "science".

[GrumpyGoat]

I don't know (or care) one way or another about HFCS but am not sure I would trust any natural living propaganda site any more than a company's site.

It is similar to NGOs like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth - I don't trust them any more than anyone else as they too are in it for the money and actively want to bring everyone around to their way of thinking. Worse still on smaller single issue NGOs they won't get any money if what they are campaigning against isn't an issue so it is in their interest to keep pushing regardless of the "science".

That is why I am very acquainted with my sources--such as Natural News which I have read for years as I am on the email list. I also tend to obsessively compulsively read the research data behind the articles as well. But that isn't really user friendly for most people so I give links for articles that have a natural angle. How can someone who promotes avoiding chemicals and eating a natural diet have an agenda? What are they selling me? Vitamin supplements??
You are right about the natural health movement is trying to bring everyone to their way of thinking. It is called "common sense" It's clear our bodies are not in optimal health if there are epidemics of obesity, diabetes, autism etc etc etc-- there has to be something wrong with what we are putting into our bodies. Look at the "food products", the chemicals and pesticides, the laboratory made medicines that we ingest. All the while we are discouraged from thinking about it too much and to think of natural things (like natural medicine or raw milk) as suspect or dubious.
But don't lump the natural health movement with NGOs. I don't trust the NGOs either--they do all have an agenda to promote. Like global warming.

[eassae]

I second Grumpy Goat.

[dilanium]

honestly- I don't believe anything not in a peer reviewed journal. And even then I take it with a grain of salt.

I have learned many things in my education that have altered how I eat, often away from the natural foods movement. For instance I don't drink organic milk because I feel it's inhumane to not give cows antibiotics at all and make them suffer far longer when an antibiotic that is cleared out of the milk in four days (when they have to wait a week to start milking again) would heal them much faster with much less stress.

[m.brad.russell]

GrumpyGoat -

I know exactly what I gave you. I suppose the industry that makes the product is not allowed to defend itself against biased attacks by fringe groups of health wackos that seek to destroy their livelihood. On what authority can you discredit the studies they have had conducted by independent labs in favor of those you choose to believe?

Regards,
Brad

[GrumpyGoat]

GrumpyGoat -

I know exactly what I gave you. I suppose the industry that makes the product is not allowed to defend itself against biased attacks by fringe groups of health wackos that seek to destroy their livelihood. On what authority can you discredit the studies they have had conducted by independent labs in favor of those you choose to believe?

Regards,
Brad

Here you go, Brad. Here is some REAL research- (http://www.ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2)-you know, the kind done by scientists NOT on the payroll of the corn refiners association.

This is peer reviewed journal Environmental Health and the title is Mercury from chlor-alkali plants: measured concentrations in food product sugar

There are more if you would like. But this one establishes that HFCS is full of mercury. You know, mercury--that neurotoxin.

But what do these scientists know? They must be fringe health wackos since they don't agree with the corn refiner's association.

Brad, do YOU work for a chemical company?

[m.brad.russell]

GrumpyGoat -

No, I don't work for a chemical company. I didn't know this was such a hot button issue for you. I'm sorry if I got your goat (pun intended), but it was not my intention. I simply wanted to point out they there are many facets to all research. Take global warming for example. There are many REAL scientist on both sides of the issue as far as man's role in it.

Personally, I don't drink sodas and the like anyway. I'm a beer, wine & water drinker. As for other foods with sugars or additives, as I said before, any foodstuff in moderation.

I am to busy to dig deeply into your sources, but I am curious as to where the mercury comes from; Should I be concerned with all corn products? I would certainly miss Mexican food.

Kind regards,
Brad

[SarahEDH]

[QUOTE=m.brad.russell;322162]
" . . . fringe groups of health wackos . . . ."

When a poster resorts to name-calling, I don't bother to read any further.

[GrumpyGoat]

GrumpyGoat -

No, I don't work for a chemical company. I didn't know this was such a hot button issue for you. I'm sorry if I got your goat (pun intended), but it was not my intention. I simply wanted to point out they there are many facets to all research. Take global warming for example. There are many REAL scientist on both sides of the issue as far as man's role in it.

Personally, I don't drink sodas and the like anyway. I'm a beer, wine & water drinker. As for other foods with sugars or additives, as I said before, any foodstuff in moderation.

I am to busy to dig deeply into your sources, but I am curious as to where the mercury comes from; Should I be concerned with all corn products? I would certainly miss Mexican food.

Kind regards,
Brad

The only "hot button" was you saying that people who like their food natural and unadulterated are "fringe" and "wackos". And avoiding chemical additives means we are trying to harm the chemical companies livelihood?:laugh

Personally, I no longer believe in "moderation" as some of these pollutants are cumulative. And, having spent nearly 40 years in the US, I am sure I have gotten to my quota of toxic chemicals already. So, now, for myself and my children, I have a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to additives that might cause harm.

Sure, sometimes, the cause/effect relationship has not been conclusively established by research. But, many times, it has. Either way, I use common sense. And I never trust any industry sponsored research. For the record, I don't let foxes guard my hen house either.

For many that choose to not care about these types of issues, that is your choice and you will ultimately live with the consequences of your choice. I am a bit too informed I guess to go back to living in oblivion though. And I am doing my dogged best to make sure that I can live with the consequences of the choices I make for my children.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling the rest of us "wacko". Especially since my approach has been time tested for millennium--and natural foods have never harmed anyone. Chemicals on the other hand have been proven to cause harm over and over and over again.
And, you know, pot, kettle and all that.

As for the mercury in the HFCS, it is from the process. But, yes, you should be concerned about ALL corn in the US because of the genetic engineering. Corn in the US is either straight up GE or has been contaminated by GE.

And if you are planning to move to NZ, go ahead and get over your love of Mexican food anyway. At least corn tortillas-- which are non-existent here. I have finally located corn meal (no masa) and can make a pitiful semblance of corn tortilla from it. I am contemplating liming my own corn this year.

[GrumpyGoat]

honestly- I don't believe anything not in a peer reviewed journal. And even then I take it with a grain of salt.

I have learned many things in my education that have altered how I eat, often away from the natural foods movement. For instance I don't drink organic milk because I feel it's inhumane to not give cows antibiotics at all and make them suffer far longer when an antibiotic that is cleared out of the milk in four days (when they have to wait a week to start milking again) would heal them much faster with much less stress.

You make it sound like organic farmers don't care for their animals which is NOT the case with any of the farmers I know.
And when contrasting organic farming with "conventional" farming, the animals are generally treated far more humanely in an organic environment. (of course, there will be outliers in every data set)

I think it is far more inhumane to pump chemicals into a cow to force more milk production. And antibiotics have been so overused in the dairy industry--to make up for a variety of sins--namely, filth.
I know the NZ dairy industry is not using chemicals to the extent that the US does and I am not fully educated about the chemicals used in NZ---we really bought dairy goats as soon as we arrived so it is not an issue that I obsess over.

[Nathan]

As I understand, part of the problem is thermally catalyzed dehydration and incipient rearrangement of fructose to hyrdoxymethylfurfural. Hydroxymethylfurfural does not appear to be acutely toxic in ordinary parenteral solutions, however at higher levels some toxicity is apparent. This does not address the fate, and thus effects, of orally administered fructose where it would be subject to low pH, which catalyzes the dehydration. Hydroxymethylfurfural is suggested as a factor in bee colony collapse, but that does not necessarily implicate it as a human toxin.

Then again, all those articles have lots of big words that are hard to understand, so I could be totally off base. And all those science guys have agendas that I don't understand, so it's probably better to just remain ignorant and not stress about it too much.

[GrumpyGoat]

As I understand, part of the problem is thermally catalyzed dehydration and incipient rearrangement of fructose to hyrdoxymethylfurfural. Hydroxymethylfurfural does not appear to be acutely toxic in ordinary parenteral solutions, however at higher levels some toxicity is apparent. This does not address the fate, and thus effects, of orally administered fructose where it would be subject to low pH, which catalyzes the dehydration. Hydroxymethylfurfural is suggested as a factor in bee colony collapse, but that does not necessarily implicate it as a human toxin.

Then again, all those articles have lots of big words that are hard to understand, so I could be totally off base. And all those science guys have agendas that I don't understand, so it's probably better to just remain ignorant and not stress about it too much.

This is exactly why I usually link to the news articles instead of the research.:laugh

And see Nathan, you CAN use your chemistry skills in NZ!!
Now, will you guys stay?

But, for the record:

"Mercury is toxic in all its forms. Given how much high-fructose corn syrup is consumed by children, it could be a significant additional source of mercury never before considered. We are calling for immediate changes by industry and the [U.S. Food and Drug Administration] to help stop this avoidable mercury contamination of the food supply," the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy's Dr. David Wallinga, a co-author of both studies, said in a prepared statement.

In the first study, published in current issue of Environmental Health, researchers found detectable levels of mercury in nine of 20 samples of commercial HFCS.

And in the second study, the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP), a non-profit watchdog group, found that nearly one in three of 55 brand-name foods contained mercury. The chemical was found most commonly in HFCS-containing dairy products, dressings and condiments.

[m.brad.russell]

Gee Nathan, it's a good thing you stopped with the "big words", I was just headed to get my old chemistry book out and remembered how much I loathed memorizing the periodic table!

GrumpyGoat, you are correct in being well informed about what you expose you and your family to. I assume you don't eat fish either? As for worrying about trace amounts of chemicals in my food, I guess I'm too busy living to worry about dying. This may well turn out to be my folly, but then again, ignorance is bliss!

Cheers,
Brad

[CjChris]

As I understand, part of the problem is thermally catalyzed dehydration and incipient rearrangement of fructose to hyrdoxymethylfurfural. Hydroxymethylfurfural does not appear to be acutely toxic in ordinary parenteral solutions, however at higher levels some toxicity is apparent. This does not address the fate, and thus effects, of orally administered fructose where it would be subject to low pH, which catalyzes the dehydration. Hydroxymethylfurfural is suggested as a factor in bee colony collapse, but that does not necessarily implicate it as a human toxin.


Gosh, honey, I love it when you get all scientific! :raebanana

[dilanium]

You make it sound like organic farmers don't care for their animals which is NOT the case with any of the farmers I know.

That was not my intention at all and I'm sorry you read it like that.

I am merely pointing out that I believe that it is sacrificing too much to the cow to be considered 100% better in my mind (and I've worked on farms both conventional and organic, so I do actually have some experience with this). I would prefer a middle ground. Hence when I have my lifestyle block I will keep my animals as organic is possible, but if they need antibiotics because they need them, I will give it to them or if my chickens need supplements to keep themselves healthy and not have severe mineral deficiencies- I will give them the supplements even if they are not considered organic.

Since the production of non organic meats and dairy here is a much freer (but not completely) of additional "ickies" (hormones, excess antibiotics, etc) I have less problem with consuming more "conventionally" (for lack of a better word at the moment) raised products, however when I lived in the states I bought primarily organic (as locally grown to me as possible) for two reasons- the massive use of rBGH and prophylactic antibiotics and because I could afford to (being a poor student again has changed things a little bit).

[GrumpyGoat]

That was not my intention at all and I'm sorry you read it like that.

I am merely pointing out that I believe that it is sacrificing too much to the cow to be considered 100% better in my mind (and I've worked on farms both conventional and organic, so I do actually have some experience with this). I would prefer a middle ground. Hence when I have my lifestyle block I will keep my animals as organic is possible, but if they need antibiotics because they need them, I will give it to them or if my chickens need supplements to keep themselves healthy and not have severe mineral deficiencies- I will give them the supplements even if they are not considered organic.

Since the production of non organic meats and dairy here is a much freer (but not completely) of additional "ickies" (hormones, excess antibiotics, etc) I have less problem with consuming more "conventionally" (for lack of a better word at the moment) raised products, however when I lived in the states I bought primarily organic (as locally grown to me as possible) for two reasons- the massive use of rBGH and prophylactic antibiotics and because I could afford to (being a poor student again has changed things a little bit).

I agree 100% with all you said. We definitely agree on much more than we disagree.

BTW, the word "conventional" is how the modern farming operations choose to style themselves. Instead of "conventional", I would suggest "chemical" (but no one asked me:D)

[GrumpyGoat]

I assume you don't eat fish either? As for worrying about trace amounts of chemicals in my food, I guess I'm too busy living to worry about dying.

No fish.

I am not worried AT ALL about dying!!

It is living with severe disability that scares me. You know, cancers, Parkinson's disease, Multiple Sclerosis, diabetes, etc etc [All of these things (and more) have been definitively linked to chemical exposure.]

And you know what is my biggest fear? One of my kids getting sick.
And you know what is worse than that? Finding out that I could have prevented it by being knowledgeable and pro-active.

That is what motivates me.

What is so sad is that it has to be an individual job (a massive undertaking to say the least) to protect yourself and your family. No one else is going to do it for you. The govt is not. The corporations are not. Making it even more difficult, those of us choosing to try to avoid the obvious dangers have to contend with a world full of propaganda and deniers who ridicule us for taking the time to protect our health.
THAT is just insane!!

OK, I am off this soapbox.

[JasonS]

And if you are planning to move to NZ, go ahead and get over your love of Mexican food anyway. At least corn tortillas-- which are non-existent here. I have finally located corn meal (no masa) and can make a pitiful semblance of corn tortilla from it. I am contemplating liming my own corn this year.

sorry to get off the HFCS topic for a moment, but we have ordered masa from mexifoods.co.nz. it is imported from texas, called Maseca. hope that helps. :nice1

laurel

[GrumpyGoat]

sorry to get off the HFCS topic for a moment, but we have ordered masa from mexifoods.co.nz. it is imported from texas, called Maseca. hope that helps. :nice1

laurel

THAT is exactly what I was pining for.

My mom is in Texas and I have thought of asking her to send Maseca but I didn't think they would let me import! Plus, I can't imagine paying $50 for shipping it. :eek:

I mean, I want it but not THAT much.

OMG OMG OMG Jason--just went to that site!!!

you are my new best friend in all of NZ!! :clap

Thank you thank you thank you

GREAT site--will give them my business for sure. I have searched for just such a place!!

[newarrival]

I know it is not exactly the right topic.., but I would like to ask for some advice regarding a recipe which I've got out of a book by an American author (at least I think she is American...).
The recipe asks for "light corn syrup", quite a lot of it, 1/2 cup..., the "result" is some sort of very thin, a bit crunchy type of a mmh, cookie (? sounds not quite right, but I have no better expression), a bit like a Florentine.....
I made them today and substituted the corn syrup with golden syrup, but I guess it is not exactly the right taste.
so, the question to all Americans out there:cool:- any ideas what I could use instead of the corn syrup?

And yes, I sort of read through the thread and I realized that there are somne problems/ issues with the corn syrup, apparently.....

[BkyMonster]

High fructose corn syrup and corn syrup as asked for in baking aren't quite the same. HFCS is chemically treated to convert the glucose to fructose. Regular baking corn syrup is basically just a sugar syrup (not even really that sweet) for softening texture. (Similar but not exactly the same, sort of like runny honey) You might look for glucose syrup as it is basically the same thing. It can be made from rice, potato, any grain really. If you are really keen on using a syrup in your recipe you can easily make a syrup with sugar, water. I think 1:1 ratio is common (2 cups each), with a bit of simmering on the stove. To make a thicker syrup you would need lemon juice and potentially a candy thermometer, or you could add some water to honey and heat/mix.

[Nathan]

Some of the New Worlds have masa. ...and pretty good tortillas from the same company, not like homemade, tho'.

[dilanium]

I haven't been able to find corn syrup around where I am- so I use glucose syrup instead.

[GrumpyGoat]

Anyone interested in some new research out about HFCS?
This one links HFCS to bee deaths.

Here is a link for anyone interested in looking at: Formation of Hydroxymethylfurfural in Domestic High-Fructose Corn Syrup and Its Toxicity to the Honey Bee (Apis mellifera) (http://pubs.acs.org/stoken/presspac/presspac/full/10.1021/jf9014526?cookieSet=1)

It's in Agricultural and Food Chemistry--you know, light bedtime reading:laugh. Probably the only one who might possibly care enough to actually read it is Nathan. But, then, I don't know what kind of chemist you are? (BTW, thanks for the heads up on New World masa!!)

Actually, the abstract and introduction are easy to read and give some good info. I got this nugget there "In 1970, U.S. per capita consumption of HFCS was estimated at 318 g, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report (1), which increased to over 18 kg per capita (3), with total sucrose sweeteners at slightly less than 21 kg" :eek:

I am in the process of studying bees (and actually learning to build the boxes now) and hope to soon get some bees. Obviously, my bees will not be getting any HFCS from me!!

[newarrival]

Better late than never.., thanks for the ideas regarding the use of alternatives in my recipe!:)