[qslinger]

Found out today that a a friend of mine passed away on the 9th of Sept. Steve is a friend of mine, whom I met thru my colleague. Although I met him only a few times, he made an impression on me like no one else has.

A great soul, an instantly likable guy who will truly be missed by many in UK as well as here in New Zealand. Although I am disappointed the path he took, I cannot know what he was feeling that lead him to take his own life.

The relation of his death to New Zealand and Immigration is in the article (link) below.

Rest In Peace Steve Mitchell and we will miss you a lot. Please include him in your prayers.

Here is the full story who might be interested in reading:

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1393257

[GrumpyGoat]

How tragic.

What a sad sad story.

I hope he finds some peace now.

[Jolie]

Sorry, but he didn't die because of "his Passion for New Zealand".

He died because he had depression, it was out of control, and he didn't get the help he needed to deal with it.

Claiming that he died because of "his Passion for New Zealand" trivialises what was really going on with him, and it doesn't do him or anyone else any favours.

Depression is a serious illness which affects a significant percentage of the population. People need to understand that it's not circumstances which cause people who suffer from depression to take their own lives, it's their inability to cope with those circumstances.

SAVE's (Suicide Awareness Voices of Education) Depression Checklist (http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=70266B3E-DBB1-7794-E3F80C591EB875F5) offers a list of symptoms which, when several are combined together, can be indicative of a need to seek assistance from a doctor.

If you or someone you know exhibits/experiences more than a few of these, I encourage you to take that step to seek assistance.

I'm sorry that this young man felt that things were so hopeless, it's a terrible waste. I only hope that others will take the sad news about him as a way to encourage open discussion about depression.


:(

[rhodesdanny]

what a sad story, what a pity. condolence to his family.

[qslinger]

Thanks for the support Jolie!!!

You did not know the guy...I knew him...he travelled the world and he was absolutely in love with NZ specially with Wellington. His depression was because of the fact he could not live here because the visa was not renewed which I believe the article states this very clearly...so I suggest you re-read it again to get your thoughts in order.

So take it as how you may, but I know how a happy go lucky intelligent guy turned on himself once he knew he could not stay here. All thought I will never understand his passion for New Zealand, all I can say is he loved it more than life which his friend and I can attest to!

Here is his second passion: Photography

http://www.thefacialexpression.com/

[Duncan74]

It's a sad story, and it also shows the effect of one persons depression on a wider network of people. As someone that's suffered with depression myself, a desire to move to NZ and a photography hobby then I perhaps take particular note of this story.

What I would say is that what Jolie says is true, that it was the depression that led to the suicide, although there is a clear link to leaving NZ being the catalyst that drove the depression to new levels which saldy led him to take his own life.

I know when I'm 'down' then I can focus on the most bizarre and petty issue to cause a downward spiral, and so for him to have to leave NZ, a coutry that he clearly loved as can be seen by his photographs, then I can clearly see why the NZ link is there.

It's an emotive issue, and I don't think that any of the posts above are wrong, just emphasising different aspects.

[dianney]

Sorry to hear about your friend. We hope he has found peace now.
Rest in peace steve mitchell our thoughts and condolences are sent to you and your family.
Dianne and family x

[sophiedb]

What a sad story :(

I'm guessing by his age that he might have been on a WHV, which can't be renewed at all. I remember plenty of friends being devestated when theirs - for assorted countries - came to an end, though none with as much passion and depression as this poor man. For my cousin a similar issue resulted in him completely retraining as a carpenter in order to regain entry to Australia, which took years once you include the experience component!

That said, it could be the new (yet regular) story of NZIS not renewing temp visas. They don't have too of course, and being told "no" is not something that anyone wants to hear, but if nothing else I am thankful that more people don't feel so bad about immigration worries that they take this route.

RIP *hug*

[Jolie]

so I suggest you re-read it again to get your thoughts in order.

So take it as how you may, but I know how a happy go lucky intelligent guy turned on himself once he knew he could not stay here.

My thoughts are well in order. What you need to understand about Depression is that often a person can be suffering from it, and the signs will not be blatantly obvious to most of the people who know that person -- until a triggering event pushes them over the edge.

These are the people about whom, once they take their own lives, everyone who knows them says, "He/she was always the happiest, funniest, most upbeat person! He/she wasn't depressed!" The people who experience this particular manifestation of depression are called "laughing depressives". I encourage you to Google it and learn more about it.

[Duncan74]

If anyone hasn't already looked at teh gallery then I'd recommend them to. Some great photos there over a wide range of styles (sports, events, portraits, landscapes). Says a lot about NZ life I think.

[Mamee & Co]

What a sad thing for both Stephen and his family and friends. Depression is such an insidious illness. He obviously loved the country from the beautiful photos and he leaves a legacy with them.

May he rest in peace.

[Syed]

I am so sad to read his story
Life is much worthy than New Zealand. I think he aslo had some other issues.

[chrissie]

Thanks for the support Jolie!!!

You did not know the guy...I knew him...he travelled the world and he was absolutely in love with NZ specially with Wellington. His depression was because of the fact he could not live here because the visa was not renewed which I believe the article states this very clearly...so I suggest you re-read it again to get your thoughts in order.

So take it as how you may, but I know how a happy go lucky intelligent guy turned on himself once he knew he could not stay here. All thought I will never understand his passion for New Zealand, all I can say is he loved it more than life which his friend and I can attest to!

Here is his second passion: Photography

http://www.thefacialexpression.com/


That's so terribly sad and such a waste of an obviously talented and well loved person. My deepest sympathies to everyone concerned. I do understand exactly what Jolie is saying...it's just not being expressed in a very sympathetic or caring manner I think...

[bob_the_engineer]

Sorry, but he didn't die because of "his Passion for New Zealand".

He died because he had depression, it was out of control, and he didn't get the help he needed to deal with it.

Claiming that he died because of "his Passion for New Zealand" trivialises what was really going on with him, and it doesn't do him or anyone else any favours.

Depression is a serious illness which affects a significant percentage of the population. People need to understand that it's not circumstances which cause people who suffer from depression to take their own lives, it's their inability to cope with those circumstances.

SAVE's (Suicide Awareness Voices of Education) Depression Checklist (http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=70266B3E-DBB1-7794-E3F80C591EB875F5) offers a list of symptoms which, when several are combined together, can be indicative of a need to seek assistance from a doctor.

If you or someone you know exhibits/experiences more than a few of these, I encourage you to take that step to seek assistance.

I'm sorry that this young man felt that things were so hopeless, it's a terrible waste. I only hope that others will take the sad news about him as a way to encourage open discussion about depression.


:(




Jolie, I’m guessing either you’ve suffered from depression or know someone who has, either that or you’re a psychiatrist or perhaps involved in mental health. Anyway IMHO you sound to me like you know what you’re talking about because you do have some insight.

I’m none of the above, but a good friend is a psychiatrist, so I’ve been “taught” a little about it. Depression is a sad and serious illness, the sooner people learn to understand that it’s a disease, a malfunction of an organ, nothing to be ashamed of and something that needs treatment the better………

Sure there are environmental triggers, but when we are talking about extremes like suicide the problem is often fundamentally chemical, and drugs are available to elevate the symptoms while situations are changed. Brain chemistry takes time and professional help to alter.

I applaud the advice you gave and like you, I too would urge anyone who is feeling this way to seek help, as well as feeling free to openly discuss it.

It’s an awful illness, it kills apparently healthy people and leaves families blaming themselves.


Bob

[GrumpyGoat]

J
Sure there are environmental triggers, but when we are talking about extremes like suicide the problem is often fundamentally chemical, and drugs are available to elevate the symptoms while situations are changed. Brain chemistry takes time and professional help to alter.

Bob

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

[Jo Jo]

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

Most research? Links, please.

[IanW99]

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

These people you know, were they taking their prescribed medication, or were they trying to come off the drugs?

The risks of suicide are higher if you come off anti-depressants too quickly.

And whilst your advice to research these drugs may be sensible, it is unlikely that someone who is depressed will have the motivation to research them properly anyway.

It should also be noted that your advice is for those considering taking anti-depressants, anyone who is reading this information and is already on anti-depressants should not under any circumstances just stop taking them, and should seek medical advice.

Ian

[strawb411]

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

I study/work in the profession and that's just not true. Knowing research comes with the job. The problem is, people jump on taking pills without following up with counseling. These people are the ones that often complain medication does not help and are the ones that commit suicide. The most important times on new meds are when you start and when you finish. A person should have weekly or biweekly visits to a counselor so they can monitor what they are feeling. It really upsets me when people say things like this because it's just not true. Medications have helped more people than not, but a combination of meds and talk therapy are the most successful treatments.

This thread is probably old anyway. I was trying to do a search for people who have mental illnesses and if they had problems with the medical evals. I personal have been diagnosed with Bipolar II disorder (moderate highs but very deep deep lows) and Borderline Personality Disorder. Both of these are some of the more volatile diagnoses out there. Before medication it was hell on earth for me, and because of the borderline I caused depression for those around me who loved me. I can't count the number of times that I tried to commit suicide and definitely can't count the amount of times I did some kind of self harm (cutting, etc.). Since starting meds my life has really been changed forever. I'm not 100% but I am so much happier today and have gotten complete control over self-harming behaviors. My relationships have greatly improved and I actually have a future. It was really like someone turned on a lightbulb! To remain this way I have to take 3 meds a day, possibly for the rest of my life (is sometimes the case for bipolars). Talk therapy was helpful, but with out the added benefits of meds I would still be volatile and suicidal.

Please please be informed before you advise others in your life that these things don't work. Instead please encourage them to seek out a counselor and converse with them as to what the appropriate avenue may be for that person.

Oh and, anybody who knows me outside of very close circles would have NO IDEA about any of these things. If I ever committed suicide people would definitely say they thought I was full of life and happy.

[amitaurora25]

Really Tragic story, ... No words to explain

[benandclare]

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

Sorry GG but in my case they did and those close to me who suffer from Depression they work for them too.

I used to think Depression was something that the individual should shake themselves out of and get on with life.

Oh how wrong was I. When it hit me after my first marriage breakup it was a long black tunnel with no light at the end. Thankfully the DR prescribed some tablets and having taken them for six months I was good to come off them .

[Kea]

Just a comment that I am sure no one cares if I interject but most research shows that these drugs do NOT help. In fact, most are harmful.
Do your due diligence and RESEARCH before agreeing to take any of these anti depressants or anti psychotic drugs.

I know several people who have committed suicide ON the drugs. Maybe BECAUSE of the drugs.

BTW, I have several close family members who are psychologists and one who is a psychiatrist. Oh, joy!

I do care about you making this statement, without any evidence to back it up. What research? Many people find that drugs do help, and this statement may make people think twice about seeking help- which may or may not include appropriate drugs.

This website may be of use:

http://www.depression.org.nz/

John K is an ex all black who suffered from depression who has done a lot of work in this area.

[Kanga]

Edited: Hadn't realised how old the thread is!

[Duncan74]

Let's all note that GG's comment was posted a long time ago. Yes I know it's still there, but I think there's enough follow up posts to show that there are other views.

JK's site is excellent. Or rather in my view it's excellent, and that's a 'user' rather than as a professional.

[Kanga]

Found out today that a a friend of mine passed away on the 9th of Sept. Steve is a friend of mine, whom I met thru my colleague. Although I met him only a few times, he made an impression on me like no one else has.

A great soul, an instantly likable guy who will truly be missed by many in UK as well as here in New Zealand. Although I am disappointed the path he took, I cannot know what he was feeling that lead him to take his own life.



So sorry about your friend, not much I can say but I'm really sorry.

[GrumpyGoat]

I am very busy this morning or I would pull up the relevant research but here are a couple of links (below) to summarize. If you are someone interested in the subject, relevant research is available on google or google scholar.

It was big news in early 2008--that anti depressants (like paxil) are no better than placebo. In fact, there was a further scandal just recently about the lack of standardization of the placebos used in drug tests. For example, diabetes drugs are being tested against sugar pills and AIDS drugs are being tested against lactose pills (AIDS patients are typically lactose intolerant). To get a drug approved, it must beat the placebo.

In fact, paxil, which was the best selling antidepressant for some time, would not be able to beat the placebo if testing was done now. The placebo has been getting stronger over time.

Just because you feel better on an anti depressant doesn't mean that it is efficacious. Don't discount the extremely powerful placebo effect.

Be careful that the research (and doctors) that you listen to is not done with a conflict of interest. This particular industry is rife with serious corruption.

This is a subject that I stay very informed about.


My biggest concern--and the reason I put myself out there and try to keep people informed (knowing people like to 'shoot the messenger") is because, while the benefits of drug therapy are suspect, the risks are very real and well documented. In any course of treatment, a patient must do a risk/benefit analysis--and if the risks remain the same but the benefit is shown to be much lower than promised (or non existent)--would you still choose to take on the risk?


BTW, I don't discount the value of talk therapy or any of the other extremely successful therapies out there. And there are a variety of successful treatments for depression, bi polar disorder etc that don't involve drugs. I suggest that people thoroughly research their options and be informed about their course of treatment.

Ultimately, your decision affects only you --not me. I just want to caution people to THINK!!!! You are making a serious decision about your health--I just encourage you to follow up and read both the pros and cons before you make your decision.



http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/09/antidepressants-are-no-better-than-placebo.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/10/Why-Antidepressants-Dont-Work.aspx

[alan999]

For once, I'm with GG on this one. The drugs seem to me to stop ppl feeling anything, allowing the brain to balance itself out in time, then there is the danger of coming off the drugs. A very complex path to recovery, as long as the patient believes something works then it might, drug or placebo. On the other hand, the patient is often the last to accept there is a problem.
Before I get lambasted with contradictions, these are just my own thoughts brought about by personnal experience of depression.

[Kea]

It was big news in early 2008--that anti depressants (like paxil) are no better than placebo. In fact, there was a further scandal just recently about the lack of standardization of the placebos used in drug tests. For example, diabetes drugs are being tested against sugar pills and AIDS drugs are being tested against lactose pills (AIDS patients are typically lactose intolerant). To get a drug approved, it must beat the placebo.



GG- Do you have a reference for this placebo scandal? I was unable to view the two you included as I am not willing to subscribe to 'The World's Number 1 Free Natural Health Newsletter'.

You may be interested in this Cochrane review examining the use of antidepressants in primary care:

http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab007954.html

The Cochrane Collaboration do not accept commercial funding.

[Parsley]

The Ashton Manual (http://www.benzo.org.uk/profash.htm)also makes interesting reading. As does anything Peter Breggin (http://www.breggin.com/)writes. Whatever your views, I'd go with GG and say be as informed as you can if you are going to take or come off psych meds. Just remember; meds are a tool which may or may not be right for you at the time. They're not the only tool.

P

(I'm not endorsing either of the links, just putting them there for you to make your own mind up)

[Parsley]

Back to the OP: whatever your views on depression, the causes and treatment, it is a sad thing that a young man felt he had no alternative way out of his current situation that he would take his own life.

P

[Kanga]

GG- Do you have a reference for this placebo scandal? I was unable to view the two you included as I am not willing to subscribe to 'The World's Number 1 Free Natural Health Newsletter'.

You may be interested in this Cochrane review examining the use of antidepressants in primary care:

http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab007954.html

The Cochrane Collaboration do not accept commercial funding.

Nice try Joolzr, but all your science and rct mumbo jumbo can't argue with the likes of 'The World's Number 1 Free Natural Health Newsletter'.

[GrumpyGoat]

I guess people are just too lazy to use google?

I gave the links to Dr Mercola as I could find them very easily and they gave a nice summary of the information. A place to begin your research.

But here, let me get you some "better" sources.

How about the L.A. Times article about the study re: placebo testing (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/18/news/la-heb-placebo-20101018)? Is that a more reliable source for you?

Or for those who would rather wade hip deep into the medical research itself--
What's in placebos: who knows? Analysis of randomized, controlled trials. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20956710) available on Pub Med.gov

[GrumpyGoat]

For the meta-analysis of the research on the efficacy and effectiveness of anti depressants, here is a paper titled
Efficacy and Effectiveness of Antidepressants: Current status of research (http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/AntiDepressants/AntidepressantMetaAnalysisPsychotherPsychosom2010. pdf)

Personally, I would never make suggestions that people read research if it did not exist. However, I notice that quite a few here have no qualms on challenging without having done any research themselves into the matter.

Additionally, there is really no need to be rude if you want to request additional information.

Just to be clear--there is more research available if you are interested in reading it. Not saying that I want to spend my day looking for links for people who find it amusing to be uninformed challengers. And it's ironic that I can find this information freely on the web but others can not??

If you have a genuine interest in this topic, please feel free to pm me and I will be more than happy to help you get started in finding more research.

[GrumpyGoat]

GG- Do you have a reference for this placebo scandal? I was unable to view the two you included as I am not willing to subscribe to 'The World's Number 1 Free Natural Health Newsletter'.

You may be interested in this Cochrane review examining the use of antidepressants in primary care:

http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab007954.html

The Cochrane Collaboration do not accept commercial funding.

I will see your 2007 publication and raise you some JAMA 2010 pubs

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/303/1/47

for those wanting to skip the research and just read the summary article:

http://www.physorg.com/news181931738.html

A quote from the article (about the research) published at psysorg.com dated January 5. 2010:
"A study of 30 years of antidepressant-drug treatment data published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association shows that the benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo may be minimal or nonexistent in patients with mild or moderate symptoms."

[Tia Maria]

A quote from the article (about the research) published at psysorg.com dated January 5. 2010:
"A study of 30 years of antidepressant-drug treatment data published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association shows that the benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo may be minimal or nonexistent in patients with mild or moderate symptoms."

I've got a feeling this has been known for sometime that SSRIs shouldn't be used in mild to moderate depression and is in the side effects list for them:

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/fluoxetine-side-effects.html

As with any drug there are possible side effects and you have to weigh up the pros and cons of that. Ideally if you are feeling depressed you should go to a doctor who specialises in that field and will be well aware of the different drugs and treatments available and will be able to talk over possible side effects. Antidepressants are not for all but will work for some.

I think it's important that we don't read comments like that above and then extrapolate from that, that all antidepressants are useless.

There are some very dubious studies made by big drug companies but there are also plenty of good ones backed by some very sound research.

The 'Natural' drug industry isn't as well regulated, if at all. The fact that Homeopathic drug companies are allowed to make millions with their pills is just as big a concern as drug companies not following rigid study procedures.

The best book on all this is Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, (one of my fave books which I think should be compulsory reading for all!), and here is the website with some great articles:

http://www.badscience.net/

For those that have heard of Gillian McKeith he has some great stuff to say about her!!!! :D

Cheers

Tia

[Jo Jo]

A quote from the article (about the research) published at psysorg.com dated January 5. 2010:
"A study of 30 years of antidepressant-drug treatment data published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association shows that the benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo may be minimal or nonexistent in patients with mild or moderate symptoms."

You left off the last sentence, which reads:

[H]owever, the benefit of medications is substantial for patients with very severe depression.

[GrumpyGoat]

You left off the last sentence, which reads:

[H]owever, the benefit of medications is substantial for patients with very severe depression.

I copied the first sentence of the article and gave you a link. I didn't leave off anything.

Funny enough, the previous study that I posted a link to disagrees with that finding.

And I wouldn't normally be posting any of the JAMA pubs --but I was following up on the previous study posted from 2007 by Joolzr

I guess no comment on how the study from 2007 says antidepressants are great for depression and then 2010 study says they don't work for mild or moderate depression?

Tbh, it really irritates me when people don't have anything worthwhile to contribute to a discussion so instead they try to pick apart information contributed by someone else. What is so threatening about getting all the facts and reading all the research?

To you: BY ALL MEANS--take the drugs!!

However, if you are a critical thinker and interested in your health (and not just pharma profits), take some time and try to gather all the information before you make your decisions. Informed consent!!

Many times doctors struggle to stay up to date on this type of research--and mostly rely on "training" provided by the industry (read: pharma companies). There are also heavy financial incentives for doctors to prescribe medication.

There is quite a bit of propaganda out there and it can be incredibly hard to wade through it--especially when most of the world has been conditioned to pressure you into following the party line!

[GrumpyGoat]

Also, if you read a bit further in that article, you will find this gem:

"Researchers concluded that the ability of antidepressant medications to reduce depressive symptoms varied considerably. For people whose depression was considered to be mild, moderate or even severe, little evidence showed that the medications yield specific benefit beyond what is provided by engagement in treatment and the resulting boost in the patient’s expectation for improvement."

Reach your own conclusions.

[Duncan74]

To all. I think we've all seen enough to make us see there are differing views, and there's plenty of information out there. Is there a lot to be gained by continuing the discussion here? Certainly it may have moved sufficiently far from the intention of the OP to be considered insensitive to those on here that knew the individual. So perhaps if people still want to debate (note the debate word) then a new thread may be better?

Just a thought and not aimed at either 'side'.

[GrumpyGoat]

I have no dog in this fight so to speak.

Just woke this morning to an old thread that had been revived with multiple posters challenging something I wrote ages ago. So I gave them the research they requested.

I didn't want to engage in this "debate" (ha!) but certainly won't drop a challenge.

I am finished.

[Tia Maria]

I think stawb411 and benandclare made a couple of very valid points, I don't think it matters that the thread was old.

I've found that depression has been a much more spoken about topic in NZ, maybe because many expats experience it in a place far away from old friends and family or maybe due to the advertising campaign?

For whatever reason I think it's a good thing as depression and suicidal thoughts use to have a 'taboo' element to it. When I worked for the Samaritans one of the first things they taught you was to ask a caller if they were having suicidal thoughts because so many people feeling that way find even just saying the words, 'suicidal feelings', impossible. So to have someone say it for them can be a great relief and a good opener to express how they are feeling.

Cheers

Tia

[Kanga]

I'm a critical thinker and interested in health GG, but I don't agree with your synopsis of 'the facts'.

[Margarita]

I can't add much science or any real fact but I can add my experience.

When I first got put on medication for depression the first thing the doctor asked me was did have I suicidal thoughts or want to commit suicide. I hadn't and when I asked why he explained the medication he was going to put me on could often cause suicidal thoughts as one of the side effects and warned me that should I get any when I began taking it then I had to go back and he would change me on to something else. It was even mentioned in the little medication pamphlet you get inside the box From this I would conclude that there is some recognition that with some pills and in some people there is a possibility for medication to make it worse.

I took the medication and yes it did some days make me wish I could just find a way to end it all, this was monitored and actually the medication worked because it allowed me enough relief to get up, get going and get on with life which is what intimately got me over the depression and soon the thoughts even on the medication went away. Weather these thoughts were a result of knowing they might happen or if they were a true side effect I guess I'll never know but at least knowing that risk was there I was able to seek help when they did occur and know that it wasn't really my true thinking that was to blame. For anyone suffering from depression I would still inist that medication does work but I think it is important to recognise the risks and inform people of the risks so they know what to look out for.