[James 1077]

So how many of the things that it describes that people did in the days before central heating are the norms in NZ:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8283796.stm


Unless you were really well off, you didn't have any radiators. There was an awful lot of solid fuel around then, an open fire in the living room normally, which heated the water as well.
"Other houses just had a three-bar electric fire, so you needed plenty of blankets at night. I remember the 1963 winter was particularly horrendous."


Lots of solid fuel - check
Open Fire - Check
Electric Fire - Check
Plenty of blankets - Check


"Rather than put extra clothes on, they put the heating on. It used to be that if it got cold, you put a jersey on and if it got warm you opened a window. People don't have an expectation that they will have to change the way they behave in cold weather."


Warm clothing - Check


"You used to need warm carpets and heavy curtains and drapes, whereas now people can live with laminate floors and floorboards. The typical Victorian home had very heavy materials and a curtain over every door to stop the draughts."
People are also able to stay up later, he says. "People used to have to go to bed when it got too cold, even as late as the 1950s. Now people can sit up in a T-shirt and go to bed when they want to."


Warm carpets - Not in Auckland but maybe elsewhere
Heavy curtains - Check
Bed earlier - Check

Quite an interesting article all in all. But I still don't think central heating is needed in Auckland at least!

[Joolzr]

I agree that we need to learn to manage our buildings. But I still think central heating would be more efficient than all these plug in heaters, electric blankets etc.

[petri]

I hope the plumbing in NZ is a bit better than UK, though?

In London a quarter of the water in the pipes leaks away.. The annual leaks in the UK could supply a couple of New Zealands ;-)

[2371]

Given the relatively mild climate (seldom below -10° ;-) ), a good isolation and modern ventilation system should actually do the job. Just think that none of NZ builders never every heard anything about low-energy-consumption buildings. Somehow strange, given the greenish image of New Zealand?

[Familyofmonkeys]

Interesting article......but I gotta disagree about central heating as it would make life up here much more comfortable. In victorian times a large number of children didn't survive childhood due to respiratory illnesses, exaccerbated by breathing in cooler air temperatures and smoke from open fires, not to mention all the dust mites and mould spores contained in all those heavy furnishings. In those days there were no antihistamines or asthma medications so the unfortunate person who suffered such problems used to have a pretty low life expectancy.....thank goodness I wasn't alive then or I probably wouldn't have made it to adulthood :uhoh

[VileTraveller]

I think New Zealand's climate (certainly the North Island's) would be a great contender for the 'Passive House' concept. I've only recently heard about this, but it's a fairly mature technology in places like Germany, where it's been in use for around 20 years. Basically, it's "a building where a comfortable indoor temperature may be achieved in both winter and summer without the need for separate heating and air-conditioning systems" (FuturArc Magazine, vol.14 2009).

It's all in the design of the building, using orientation, insulation, passive heating, airtight windows (all air circulation is controlled and passes through heat exchangers - I understand these are already fairly common in NZ?) and some other elements which I haven't fully investigated.

This does, of course, result in a more expensive building, as some elements have to be designed for each individual plot. But there are a lot of useful general principles in there, too.

So, a central-heating-less house in the warmer bits of NZ looks distinctly possible, especially if you're willing to do a bit of research & design yourself.

:bluebanana + Passive House = :raebanana

[Wooly_Cow]

I think New Zealand's climate (certainly the North Island's) would be a great contender for the 'Passive House' concept.

It's all in the design of the building, using orientation, insulation, passive heating, airtight windows (all air circulation is controlled and passes through heat exchangers - I understand these are already fairly common in NZ?) and some other elements which I haven't fully investigated.



:laugh:laugh:laugh: - Sorry but this made me laugh out loud in the office this morning......passive heating only works if you can keep the heat in....Kiwi houses can't and don't not even the new ones.....this design concept is about as close to reality here as a flying Kiwi!!!!

....the line that really got me was "airtight windows" - oh how I laughed :laugh -

[nickiware]

Gale force wind going through my windows last night, freezing in Auckland today. Also I have had to open the windows to get rid of all the moisture on the inside so they don't go mouldy. That and two loads of washing spread everywhere, tumbledryer on container (not here yet), raining outside, feeling pretty miserable today - can you tell?

[Wooly_Cow]

Gale force wind going through my windows last night, freezing in Auckland today. Also I have had to open the windows to get rid of all the moisture on the inside so they don't go mouldy. That and two loads of washing spread everywhere, tumbledryer on container (not here yet), raining outside, feeling pretty miserable today - can you tell?

Yeah didn't get much sleep with all the bl---y wind......(some stupid idiot employed by our landlord to tart up the house so he can sell it from under us, broke the ctach on the gate so it was banging all night :mad:)

Make sure your tumble dryer vents outside.....we have to leave the flipping door of the wash room open.....ah the high tech design round here.....can't even manage a hole in a wooden wall!

[Mgee]

We did some research on passive energy houses as we were interested in utilising the technique for building a summer cottage. As we live up north, our aim was to reduce the need for active heating because over here the passive energy would not be sufficient alone.

Passive (solar) energy basically means utilising sunlight for heating any dwelling. It can be done by a) aligning the house so that it gets maximum sunlight through big windows facing the sun and b) storing the heat in a large thermal mass so that the mass keeps the house warm, i.e. stores the heat and releases it gradually over time.

In practice the easiest way is to utilise passive solar energy is to align the house so that the sun will warm the house through big windows and that the sun will warm a stone wall or other heat-retaining thermal mass. In a wooden house this is difficult because wood is no good as thermal mass, and therefore the passive heating works only as long as the sun is shining, unless a thermal mass such as a stone wall is built inside the house.

Another option, and the one we considered, is to build an earth-bermed house, where the land mass around the house acts as the thermal mass. In this option the house is bermed with land mass on 3 sides (and possibly the roof) and the fourth wall has large windows that face the sun. The sun warms the house and the earth mass (and some added stone walls) then store the heat. The earth-bermed houses also utilise the fact that the temperature below the earth's surface stays always at 7 degrees C even in cold climates (although the uppel layers of the soil will freeze in very cold climates, the frozen layer is fairly thin). This means that you will only need the energy to heat from +7C upwards, i.e. even in very cold climates you only need enough energy to raise the indoor temperature by 11 degrees to 18 instead of, say 20 degrees from -2 C, or in our case 38 degrees from -20. This would have meant a lot less active heating i.e. active energy. This would have been the major benefit for our project because over here we have too little sun during the winter for the passive solar heating.

We ended up not building the summer cottage, mostly because we couldn't find a suitable south-facing plot. We still dream of realising our plans some day.

If anyone on the forum is interested in passive energy solutions, the following books make a very good read (and you don't have to be a construction engineer to understand them):
-The Good House Book by Clarke Snell
-Earth-Sheltered Houses by Rob Roy
-Building Green by Clarke Snell and Tim Callahan.

[James 1077]

Gale force wind going through my windows last night, freezing in Auckland today. Also I have had to open the windows to get rid of all the moisture on the inside so they don't go mouldy. That and two loads of washing spread everywhere, tumbledryer on container (not here yet), raining outside, feeling pretty miserable today - can you tell?

A big hefty dehumidifier is pretty much a necessity in most houses without ventilation systems so that you can avoid having to open windows when it gets cold. Ours was relatively cheap (from the Warehouse) and stops the windows in most of the house fogging up except on really cold nights (but then it clears them pretty quickly come the morning).

Clothes also dry very quickly inside (although we normally hang them outside as we currently have an undercover area for the clothes line - the new house doesn't so I'm going to try and make one as they are invaluable when you disagree with tumble dryers!).

[nickiware]

We are going to knock the house down in 6 months and my new one will have double glazing - aren't I posh!!!! I will check out the dehumifiers on trademe could good solution. It is 6 degrees here at the mo, I think clothes outside will simply get wetter, i have an undercover area with clothes line, but the undercover bit leaks in the rain. I want my slippers, duvet, sofa and warm clothes, been up since 3.30am, also need sleep!

[Wooly_Cow]

We are going to knock the house down in 6 months and my new one will have double glazing - aren't I posh!!!!

....no not posh ....SMART - I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only way to live in a decent house here is to build one myself (well have one built anyway)

[nickiware]

Apparently double glazing is a building regulation now, I am dead chuffed!

[Wooly_Cow]

Apparently double glazing is a building regulation now, I am dead chuffed!

....it's supposed to be BUT...I was amazed that builders were still installing single glazing only weeks before the deadline near Wellington....it's almost as if there isn't a market for it (if a buyer sees two indentical houses they WOULDN"T care if one had DG....)

...and there's DG and DG....make sure you get the one with thermal insulation between the frame material ....otherwise it will 'sweat'....

I once met an Expat who had come here to work on 'Energy Efficient Housing' project....talk about an easy job - loads of easy things NZ could do to new and current housing stock...I guess the job isn't so much saying what to do, but convincing the builders and house buyers / owners to do it...judging by the repsonces on this and other sites, thats a task I wouldn't like!

[Navyref]

Gale force wind going through my windows last night, freezing in Auckland today. Also I have had to open the windows to get rid of all the moisture on the inside so they don't go mouldy. That and two loads of washing spread everywhere, tumbledryer on container (not here yet), raining outside, feeling pretty miserable today - can you tell?

...welcome to New Zealand!:yes

[Navyref]

We are going to knock the house down in 6 months and my new one will have double glazing - aren't I posh!!!! I will check out the dehumifiers on trademe could good solution. It is 6 degrees here at the mo, I think clothes outside will simply get wetter, i have an undercover area with clothes line, but the undercover bit leaks in the rain. I want my slippers, duvet, sofa and warm clothes, been up since 3.30am, also need sleep!

...not that POSH if having to 'check out the dehumifiers on trademe?':yes

[newarrival]

There are people (builders and buyers) out there, who know exactly what makes a house warm and dry, who know what insulation and double- glazing and solar energy is....., maybe not as many as you would wish for, but I am pretty sure that the number will rise.

I know someone in Dunedin who built a house in the way Mgee describes it, the house is build with the back into the earth, has a big window front facing north, huge triple- glazed windows, solar panels on the roof which heat her water and the body of the house is made of concrete with the idea of storing the sun during the day and releasing it at night.
Her architect is very keen on building low energy houses and I would say that there is a market,but you might consider that not everyone has the means to build a house like that. It might be easy if you come from Europe with money from a house sale and a good exchange rate, but for the average Kiwi it is just too expensive.
Having said that- I know lots of people who very well know how valuable double glazing is and who would not want to miss it- and the more it is sold, the cheaper it will get eventually.
I have mentioned that in another thread, but comments like the one Navyref make make me say it again- I sometimes wonder if some of you, coming from England, have already forgotten the times when double glazing was not the standard there..., I am 50 now and still see the room I had to stay in for three long weeks in Margate when I was 14- the window had kind of "slits" on top, which you could not close properly, there was no heating in the room (they had a gas oven in the living room) and if it rained, it was dripping on my bed. And I came from a house which was centrally heated, double glazed, warm and dry.
New Zealand might be quite some years behind with heaps of things- but isn't that exactly what makes it so attractive to lots of us?
I am sorry if anyone feels offended now, but I sort of feel offended when I read comments like the one Navyref makes- and by his/ your signature, tbh.

[Wooly_Cow]

Renate

good point about affordability.....of course a higher standard of build is more expensive, especially when the mass market isn't there. However only by encouraging efficiency will this ever improve. In the 1970's and 80's in the UK there was government grants for DG to start with then later insualtion (and there still is). It's good to see NZ offer central subsidies for insulation and more efficient heating systems....

Hopefully things will improve......

[Super_BQ]

I'm afraid central heating by any forms of mechanical ventilation in residential homes will never materialise in NZ. Home comfort comes at a major cost and because of that, it is the key reason why houses in NZ rarely have it. For the past decade, i've not visited a home that has some form of ducted ventilation system in a house such as natural gas heating via a furnace.

After speaking to a ventilation specialist in Chch, NZ did adopt the exact building standards America had back in the early 1990s under the 'air tight' home construction + standards for indoor air quality act. The act did allow for such houses to be built in NZ but never eventuated because the average kiwi shifts house every 6 years and the culture to treat houses as investments for profit rather than simply, "a house to live in". He estimated at least 99% of all homes built in NZ fall under the "breathable home" category of the act which came way back in the old Californian bungaloo days say a century ago. While the N. American counterparts evolved to building air tight homes with mechanical ventillations / HRV / central heating, New Zealand simply never followed suit (or could not of because of other barriers such as electricity prices at least 3 x more than say in Canada's 6cents/kw/Hr).

So the issue goes back to one's carbon footprint. I will strongly contest that the carbon footprint of a house in Canada is at least 3 times than a house in NZ. The cost for the family is the same. A house in Canada may pay $400/month for central heating in the winter while in NZ, it will also cost the same $400/month but the difference is very clear that, that $400 in Canada gets you a home centrally heated for the WHOLE TIME for the WHOLE HOUSE. While in NZ, rooms are heated only 1 at a time via a heat pump or some plug in wall radiator. The house in Canada will easily have 3 times the energy consumption than here. To ask for such a house in NZ is quite simply, unthinkable!

So the issue really all depends on, "are we humans or are we animals?" I've mentioned this time and time again that if people in NZ were to conserve more in electricity usage, then they might as well go and live under a tree. I know the greenies don't like my attitude but seriously, there has got to be a point where as humans, we must have a higher order of standard, and not be dumb down to the level of standards how animals maintain sustainable life in nature. Really, we've lost the fur of our skin for that very reason.

BQ

PS: I'm all for capital gains tax on property speculators. Such $ used into houses could of been put to better use such as R&D into medical or business that provides a bigger spin off than just houses.

[James 1077]

There is also the fact that, in many parts of New Zealand, it is only cold for a very short period and, even then, it doesn't get that cold.

Why bother building a house that is totally enclosed by earth except for one wall when, for 9 months of the year, you want a decent breeze blowing the hot air out of the house to cool it down? From the sounds of it this sort of house won't allow a breeze to flow as there is no "exit" on the other side of the house.

Why bother with central heating when you only have your electric heater on for a month of the year anyway? We had ours on in July only this year - have only used it rarely since.

Double glazing sort of makes sense but only with wall insulation as part of the package and, at that point, you start getting the horrible hermatically sealed houses I lived in when in the UK where no air from outside could get in unless you opened up your windows - which meant that winter was spent in a house getting more and more humid and damp unless you opened up the windows and got rid of all of the heat from the house. At least NZ houses are built with ventilation in them!

We currently live in an uninsulated, drafty, rental in Auckland. You can feel the air coming up through the floorboards. We generally don't bother with heating other than in the kids' room where we keep it at between 16 and 20 degrees as recommended (but it only needed heating in July and a couple of days in September). Our living room is south facing with almost no sunlight in winter. And at no time have I been too cold that putting a jumper on hasn't solved it.

This is why, IMHO, things like central heating, double glazing, passive energy houses etc are luxuries rather than necessities - at least in this part of the country.

[Super_BQ]

which meant that winter was spent in a house getting more and more humid and damp unless you opened up the windows and got rid of all of the heat from the house.

Sounds like they don't build houses in the UK with integrated humidity controls within the central heating system. As a matter of interests, HRV/ERV systems are a mandatory country wide requirement for any new home built in Canada. The idea of air tight homes is not flawed at all providing you have adequate VENTILLATION. Indoor air should never be fully recycled and that's the job of the heat exchanger in the home (or the energy recovery ventillator).

Drafty home is fine if you solely depend on mother nature. But simply, NZ homes are not adequate for any form of mechanically ventilated system.

Though you are right that NZ's climate doesn't see the extremes like in Canada, the fact is i've failed to see houses (old and new) in NZ to maintain what the WHO (World Health Organisation) says of healthy room temperature living between 18 - 24C. Yes and that INCLUDES overnight temperatures. By WHO standards, it's unacceptable to go to be in a bedroom that is say 18C and by morning, and then wake up at 10C or less temperatures. Likewise in the summertime, bedroom temperature exceeding well over 30C for many hours of the day (excessive solar gain). Such conditions resemble no different than living in a green house.

Perhaps the lack in home comfort may be a cause of NZ's high % of asthma / respiratory suffers among the OECD?

[newarrival]

Just a word on ventilation and those systems you mention- I lived in Germany all my life and we did not have any of those "sophisticated" ventilation systems:uhoh
Of course we had double glazed windows, insulated walls , floor and ceilings, but we still had to open the windows in summer to get an air flow- nor do I know any one house with such a system.
Regarding the recommendations- it might be recommended to have a night temperature of 18 degrees, but we used to open our bedroom window the whole year, no matter if it was + 30 or -15 degrees outside. The difference to here is that the rest of the house, especially the bathroom ;) was much warmer during the night and you woke up and walked into the heated living room.
In Blenheim in get quite cold during the nights in the winter months, but very sunny during the day. I think you could manage perfectly fine with some solar panels for hot water and a log fire and good insulation/ double glazing for the rest of the house, if it is north facing.

[dilanium]

There is also the fact that, in many parts of New Zealand, it is only cold for a very short period and, even then, it doesn't get that cold.


As someone else who lives on the North Island I would disagree, and say that it's very few parts of New Zealand that are only cold for a short period of time. But then, I suppose it depends what you consider cold- and for me that changes with how cold it feels inside. So here in Palmy I've been considering it cold from late May, and definitely still right now (though there have been some warm breaks during that time).

[Mgee]

Why bother building a house that is totally enclosed by earth except for one wall when, for 9 months of the year, you want a decent breeze blowing the hot air out of the house to cool it down? From the sounds of it this sort of house won't allow a breeze to flow as there is no "exit" on the other side of the house.


That's the other point: because the thermal mass stays always at 7 degrees, during summer months it acts as a cooler. It's basically like a thermos flask: keeps the cold out when you want the contents to be warm and keeps the hotness out when you want the contents to be cool. An earth-bermed house needs ventilation just like any other healthy house -it's no exception to that rule.

Earth bermed houses have traditionally been used in almost every kind of climate: from very cold ones to very hot ones. Luke Skywalker's home on Tatooine in Star Wars is actually an old Tunisian dwelling utilising earth berming for cooling purposes.

One of the major advantages of earth bermed dwellings is that due to lower active energy consumption their energy and thus carbon footprint is a lot lower. Whether this is something people value or not, is up to individual opinion.

I'm only providing infomation for those that are interested in passive solar heating, not trying to convert anyone to build a house like that against their wishes. ;)

Edit: A page featuring some of the current passive energy house projects in NZ: http://www.ecoprojects.co.nz/Site/bbe_architects/bbe_architects_work_in_progress.aspx

[dilanium]

Is there much of a radon problem in NZ though? I know in upstate NY there was problems with Radon and I was always told that earth bermed houses are the most at risk.

[JandM]

Well, this is what the government says... http://www.nrl.moh.govt.nz/faq/radiationinthehome.asp#radon

[Super_BQ]

For those interested

http://www.arphs.govt.nz/Publications_Reports/archive/HealthyHousing/hhiacold.pdf

Interesting publication which was based out of Auckland. Imagine how much colder for those living in the Southland?

[Familyofmonkeys]

So the issue goes back to one's carbon footprint. I will strongly contest that the carbon footprint of a house in Canada is at least 3 times than a house in NZ. The cost for the family is the same. A house in Canada may pay $400/month for central heating in the winter while in NZ, it will also cost the same $400/month but the difference is very clear that, that $400 in Canada gets you a home centrally heated for the WHOLE TIME for the WHOLE HOUSE. While in NZ, rooms are heated only 1 at a time via a heat pump or some plug in wall radiator. The house in Canada will easily have 3 times the energy consumption than here. To ask for such a house in NZ is quite simply, unthinkable!

You seem to have contradicted yourself because you also said.....

such as electricity prices at least 3 x more than say in Canada's 6cents/kw/Hr).



You've pretty much said that you can use 3 times the energy (because it's 3 times cheaper) and it costs the household the same amount of money......so how can the carbon footprint in Canada be the same when you have used more energy? The carbon footprint is a measure of how much carbon you have released into the atmosphere, and not a measure of how efficient space heating is, and whether you are heating one room or a whole house, you have still used the same amount of energy.

And there is another factor you have failed to consider here. NZ gets approx 70% of it's electricity from HEP which is a renewable energy source, whilst Canada gets most from fossil fuels and hence releases more carbon.


Sounds like they don't build houses in the UK with integrated humidity controls within the central heating system. As a matter of interests, HRV/ERV systems are a mandatory country wide requirement for any new home built in Canada. The idea of air tight homes is not flawed at all providing you have adequate VENTILLATION. Indoor air should never be fully recycled and that's the job of the heat exchanger in the home (or the energy recovery ventillator).


A significant proportion of UK homes have a hot water radiator system for central heating powered by gas or oil boilders, although hydronic underfloor systems are becoming more popular and are more efficient as they often benefit from having a thermal mass to maintain the heat. Forced air central heating was around quite a bit in the 1970's and a lot of council housing (state housing) building at this time still has these old systems. They did not become popular because hot water systems are more efficient. Some houses also had electric storage heaters too, but they can be costly to run.

And UK homes are not generally build airtight either....loft spaces are usually designed to breath and avoid moisture build up, and the radiators create thermal air currents so the air does circulate. Extractor fans are mandatory in all wet areas in newer homes too....but in many old ones you still need to open the window (for a few minutes) to let out moist air. In our last UK home the uPVC windows had little vents that could be opened to allow airflow (found in most new builds now apparently), but closed during the coldest weather......UK climate is not as extreme as Canada so you wouldn't keep you house airtight for days on end although I agree that indoor air quality can still be an issue in some homes.


I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only way to live in a decent house here is to build one myself (well have one built anyway)

That was the same conclusion we came to......so that's what we are going to do :) We realised that by the time you rip the walls out and up-spec wall insulation, replace all of the windows in most houses, add a heating system, often extractor fans too, you might as well start from scratch. Plus you have the benefit of being able to better insulate under your slab which can't really be done retrospectively.

[incredible hulse]

We're renovating in a major way and some of the must haves for us are double glazing (proper stuff not this non thernal broken aluminium rubbish) and whole house heating.

From a balance sheet perspective I agree the cost is definitely more (especially as the cost of CH in NZ is about double UK in real terms) than huddling round bar heaters and replacing curtains frequently from the damp and condensation, but for us the comfort and health factors outweigh this. This may only be (for us) required for 3-4 months a year but still think it's worth it.

I did try and convince my gas fitter that he could make a fortune by sourcing and installing rads (this was a few years ago when they seemed to be even rarer than they are now) but he had the (kiwi made/thinks the climate's like Oz)mentality that it wasn't cold enough here - I had been struggling to get the kid's bedrooms above 12 degrees despite running fan heaters !!!

End of the day I liken it to buying a typewriter - would probably be more cost effective for writing letters but a bit embarrassing if the whole country saw this as bleeding edge :exit

[Familyofmonkeys]

End of the day I liken it to buying a typewriter - would probably be more cost effective for writing letters but a bit embarrassing if the whole country saw this as bleeding edge :exit

I like that....great analogy :)

[Super_BQ]

You've pretty much said that you can use 3 times the energy (because it's 3 times cheaper) and it costs the household the same amount of money......so how can the carbon footprint in Canada be the same when you have used more energy?

Familyofmonkeys:

My original post makes no claim the carbon footprint of one in Canada is the SAME as in NZ - because the cost of energy is so cheap in Canada, people there will consume at least 3 times more energy than the NZ comparison. No contradictions there.

and it costs the household the same amount of money......

Again no claims where I say the carbon footprint is the same. The key issue I was getting at is quite simply 'home comfort' which relies on central heating of some form.

NZ gets approx 70% of it's electricity from HEP which is a renewable energy source, whilst Canada gets most from fossil fuels and hence releases more carbon.

In the case of electrical power source, I beg to differ. Most of Canada's population lives in the east where power generation is either nuclear (Candu Reactor systems) or Hydro. In the west part of Canada, virtually all power source is hydro. If you want to add energy usage in terms of people's day to day lives from their cars commuting, then we can involve logistic inefficiencies too (ie. Auckland's streets and roads are not grided symetrically like say Vancouver).

In terms of which central heating system is most efficient - I can't comment too much. Though I can tell you my neighbor back in Canada lives in a house that uses water radiator type heating (piping that goes throughout the house) heated via natural gas. His heating bill alone costed him over $400 for 1 particular month. On the same equivalent, my parent's place with a new high-eff natural gas furnace was at least 30% less in operating costs. The problem with the neighbor was his hot water heating system is original install when the house was built and none can be changed. While my parents place, if they kept the original hot air gas furnace going, the power bill would easily be more than the neighbors. But because improvements in the latest hot air gas furnace systems out, they've really made those older piped hot water central heating systems obsolete. If you're wondering how － secret is in the flu as older gas furnace waste almost half of the heat via the flu that expells the CO2 gas. High-eff version don't use the flu anymore and the C02 is expelled through a much smaller pipe.

[Super_BQ]

On my previous post, i'm strictly speaking in terms of electrical generation. I know that in Canada here :

www.canelect.ca/en/Pdfs/HandBook.pdf

it shows only 19% of electrical generation is from coal/gas burners. Though I don't think it would be fair to leave out burning of natural gas or LPG. But then NZ doesn't have a lot of these resources and if the country did, it wouldn't make much impact on the overall cost of energy to heat our homes.

So I would put to the point again that as humans, do we live like animals or do we live like being at the top of the chain which would ruin the earth - where do we draw the line??? By WHO standards or by Kiwi standards? Many people do enjoy cold beer no different than Americans enjoying central heating.

[norma]

We also live in Auckland in a drafty bungalow. It already had the gas underfloor ducted heating installed (see www.completeheat.co.nz/Central-Heating.html for info) and I have to say that I couldn't have lived here without it. Just putting an extra jumper on wouldn't have been enough for us. In the mornings before the heating has come on, the heating controller has registered temps as low as 7 degs inside. That's too cold in my book. We've had the heating on all winter and over the last week when the temps have plummeted again (right on cue for the school hols).

It doesn't cost that much to run, it heats the whole house so I don't have to keep on at the kids to keep doors closed and, for any one that might be interested, it costs around NZ$9,000 to install in a 3-bed house. I don't work for any of the central heating companies by the way. ;)

[HelenHart]

I must agree with all the comments about Kiwi houses. We came here 4 years ago and I could not understand why Kiwis don't have heating, especially as it is cold here in the winter months, more so at night where I live in Blenheim. Fantastic sun during the day but frosty nights in the winter.

After looking at several houses we were lucky to find one that had been insulated well, but no double glazing or heating throughout. We have now installed heatpumps in all of the rooms plus a woodburner in the lounge so we can really be cosy on those freezing nights. We've also installed double glazing in some rooms and boy does it make a difference - no crying windows! How I laughed when I heard this expression - how quaint or did I say how miserable, condensation everywhere and dehumidifiers trying to get rid of damp, now we have no problem.

When we first came we wanted central heating with radiators and solar hot water heating but they couldn't do it, now you can get it here in Blenheim and there is plenty of double glazing.

Look carefully at what you purchase and see what can be done, as now they are getting all the mod cons we were used to in the UK over here. And boy does it make life more pleasant.

[hoping2win]

I used to live in Auckland and found it quite cold! I think it is due to the high humidity. Everything got damp, this was few years ago - not sure if it is any different now?
I live in Blenheim now and the challenge here is to have a form of heating that can rapidly produce heaps of kilowatts, as during the day, even in winter it can be quite warm.
I used to be a heating installer in UK so I have a wood stove and radiators, nobody here knows how to install proper central heating in my view.
If I was building again I would use the DVS system, basically just heated air blown around the rooms. This might sound crazy but really the best option for NZ is the oil filled radiator! If you get the ones with timers and thermostats your sweet! Capital cost is low and you can take them with you if you move. I retro fitted double glazing too, simple job but usual messy kiwi "tradesmen"! Remember the kiwi caveman is used to a hot lounge and a freezing bedroom. I love the place though!

[Flutterby]

Actually the oil filled radiator was our choice of heating in the UK, we lived in a caravan for over a year (so dealt with many of the issues that people here complain about Kiwi housing) and the oil filled radiator combined with proper ventilation solved most of the problems.
When we moved to a house we took our radiators with us and used them in preference to the night storage heaters that were fitted there, electricity comsumption was far less with the oil heaters than with the night storage.

Which reminds me, i should get some in before the winter rolls around as i'll bet money on the fact that the prices will be higher come winter!

[KatieBen]

Update on the passive house idea if anyone's thinking of building their own - there's a company in Nelson that has built an entirely passive house with a decent thermal mass and large north facing windows. They don't have any backup heating and so far the house hasn't dropped below 16 degrees even in the coldest days of one of the worst winters (which everyone was assuring us a few months ago that we were experiencing).

We're in the process of buying a north facing section on the hillside and hubby is really keen on building a passive house ourselves - it'll be interesting to see if it's achievable on a larger scale than the Nelson demo house (we're planning 4-5 bed, 3 bath, 2-3 living areas and a pool.... :) )

www.poweredliving.co.nz for anyone interested.

(and even with current rental house I'm fairly impressed, we had the heat pump on about 6 times over winter - house just didn't get that cold! Compared to the underfloor heated one in the UK which stayed freezing for days until it got itself warmed to temperature and cost us 150 pounds a month in gas to keep it there)

[doreysc]

The winter of 62/63 in the UK was very cold or so my parents tell me. Not sure what they did to keep warm as they did not have central heating.

Simon - born September 1963 :exit

[JandM]

:D