[GrumpyGoat]

Silly is a really nice word for them. :mad:

I waited until we got our PR and our passports back to go get my driver license (needed that passport as ID). I am technically unable to driver since my 12 months is up.

I have read all about it both here and on their site and had even called to ask them about my situation. It should have been a simple procedure, right? WRONG!

My driver license does not have an issue date on it. I knew this and had expired licenses dating back to the 1990s with me to prove that I have had a license for more than 2 years. I have FOUR old licenses!! All with photos, DOB and other pertinent information--all identical except for expiry dates.
CLEARLY, I have had a license for more than 2 years.

Think this will work? No, it won't.
That would require the employment of some logic and critical thinking skills and you can't have that in a bureaucracy!

It gets better:
The lady at the AA/NZTA office told me that it was fine for my state to email something to me. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. An emailed document is acceptable? But hard copies of expired driver licenses are not?

But what should I have them email me?
They tell me I have to get a "statement of particulars" which I checked and is not something that my license issuing state does. Sure, for $12, I can get a copy of my driving record--with my name, DOB and driving history. But it doesn't have the date of issue of my license (which was 1988, I believe)!!

What does NZTA say about this when I called them back again? I have to persuade my state to disclose when my license was issued or I have to start from scratch.

This is so ridiculous I could just cry.

I just wanted to alert others who may find themselves in a similar situation.

[JandM]

Oh, don't give in - hassle somebody else to hassle the frontline people. Your MP, maybe, now you're a resident? People not right in the same office can usually see when something is ridiculous, and if it's someone with clout, they'll LEAN. Good luck!

[GreenMeansGo]

I'm worried about this... just got my license renewed here in the states, and so my issue date is sept of 09... forgot to ask if I could keep my old license, not that it seemed to do you any good :(

What exactly does 'starting from scratch' entail? I haven't had to take a driver's test since I was 16!? Is that what you're facing?

[Flutterby]

want another silly to laugh about, i applied for my license showing all my ID and handing over photocopies, even had my photo taken, but had to return at a later date with my eyesight certificate because i failed the sight test.
When i went back i didn't have my receipt, and the lady refused to serve me unless i had ID....."because i might not be the person i say i am" so cheesed off i returned to the van to route around for some ID.....my UK license, i go back in and get served by a different lady and she says you don't need that, because of course they have all my details on the computer including a PHOTOGRAPH!

I swear some people just try to make life difficult!

The daft thing is that nobody checked my ID when i had the eyesight test so technically anybody could have done that and claimed to be me!

[BkyMonster]

I'm worried about this... just got my license renewed here in the states, and so my issue date is sept of 09... forgot to ask if I could keep my old license, not that it seemed to do you any good :(

What exactly does 'starting from scratch' entail? I haven't had to take a driver's test since I was 16!? Is that what you're facing?

If you can get a statement of record from your DMV before you leave. Starting from scratch is 6 months of learners and 3-6 months (assuming over 25 and depending on defensive driving classes) of restricted (no driving between 10pm-5am) before you get back to a full license. This is only if you are in one of the states that doesn't put record created on the license since they are all different.

[Flutterby]

hmmm if its like the UK license there are 2 issue dates printed on the card, one for when the actual license was issued and one for when the physical card was issued (in my case last time i changed address)

[Duncan74]

Doesn't the supervisor have to have had a full NZ license for 2 years? If so is your hubby going to be able to be a supervisor?

[Flutterby]

if that question was meant for me, yes based on the fact that he has had a full NZ license since he was a teenager.

[Duncan74]

Grand, just wanted to make sure he wasn't a new immigrant too. ;)

[Mrs Pony]

I couldn't get mine because my passport and FL DL had different names on it... even though my maiden name is STILL on my DL and my passport only has my maiden name on it...

Since NZIS had our marriage license I haven't been able to get it :( Until today! ...well hopefully... I'm off to see about getting it!

Hope it all works out! (for you and me!) ;)

[GrumpyGoat]

I couldn't get mine because my passport and FL DL had different names on it... even though my maiden name is STILL on my DL and my passport only has my maiden name on it...



Ohh for goodness sake--that is as ridiculous as mine.

After several HOURS on the phone this early morning with my home state bureaucracy --most of that time on hold or being told by the system that they were too busy to talk to me and being hung up on OVER and OVER--I have found out the following (maybe):

I think that they will put the date that I got my last renewal (maybe) on a report. Either that date or the date that I last changed my address on my license (which would be less than 2 years).
But I will have to send US $$ in a money order to them (sure, I can just run down to the local 7-11 to get that) to get a copy of this record that may (or may not) help and wait maybe 4 or more weeks to find out. Oh, I also have to send them an original document by mail to request it but that has to go to my mother's house so she can add a money order so add at least two weeks or more to that time for it to reach them. So 6 weeks.

Of course, they can't possibly send some unofficial type email stating when I got my license. That would violate "privacy" laws. I offered to fax them a release and copy of my driver license. But that would be too easy.

Plan A is just NOT acceptable. :no

Plan B: OH's family member is a police man. He is going to try to bypass the system for us and get us a record of some kind. Hopefully, this will work. I mean, the lady said they accept email!!

But, I may try my luck at another driver license office because OH couldn't get his because they wouldn't accept his insurance documents from 2007 for his proof (with all his info on them!!) but they told him that they WOULD accept an expired license!!!!

I wish there was a "beating my head against a brick wall" emoticon!!

[Mrs Pony]

ugh... just going to start a whole new thread for my story...

[akp713b]

I had a very similar and frustrating experience. I originally had a Massachusetts license, issued in 2002. Then in 2005 I moved to Virginia and there they confiscate and destroy your old license before handing you a new one. Then in 2007 I moved to a new apartment, still in Virginia and in order to give me a new address they issued a whole new license and took the old one.

So I then discovered it was nearly impossible to get a driving record issued from Virginia to an address except the one on my license. Instead I got my Massachusetts driving record showing I was licensed there for 3 years, plus my current Virginia license I'd had for 18 months. Despite the fact that it was my name on both they said that since the weren't the exact same license they didn't count and I'd have to get the record from Virginia.

So I call the Virginia DMV up and after a lot of arguing got them to change my address on their system to my NZ address and send me a record. A week passes while I'm closing in on the 12 month limit. Finally a letter arrived from the DMV. Thank goodness I think, until I open it. It's a letter telling me my Virginia drivers license has been cancelled because I have moved out of state and if I want it reissued I'll have to come in to the DMV to prove I'm working overseas!!!

Finally a week after that the record finally arrived and I went to the AA. The last problem was Virginia doesn't use the same classification system as everyone else, so it didn't say I had a car license. The lady had to call up Wellington and make me wait while she got it cleared by supervisor. At last they issued me my NZ licence. What a nightmare! By that point I'd been driving without a valid licence for 2 weeks past the 12 month rule.

[miep]

But, I may try my luck at another driver license office because OH couldn't get his because they wouldn't accept his insurance documents from 2007 for his proof (with all his info on them!!) but they told him that they WOULD accept an expired license!!!!

I wish there was a "beating my head against a brick wall" emoticon!!

I feel for you! I don't deal very well with that kind of stupidity either!

Anyway I would suggest you try another licence office because you may well get lucky. In fact I would try them all before going on to plan A or B.

Years ago, I had a similar kind of issue when I tried to convert my Singapore licence to a Dutch one. I just waited a few weeks (while my international licence was still valid) and tried again and got it without any problems.

PS. Of course it would also be handy if all the separate states in the US got their act together!:exit

[GrumpyGoat]

Thanks, miep, I think I am going to try to go on a tour to get mine. Make every office in the area tell me "no"!! (I may end up on some kind of list for this??--I have american paranoia about "lists")

And akp713b--WOW!! That is awful. But thanks for sharing--now, I don't take it so personal. I think a lack of critical thinking skills and empathy are job requirements to work at the DMV --anywhere in the world apparently.
Maybe it has something to do with the job? Brings out the "best" in people!!

[Mrs Pony]

Good grief! Who da thought it would be SOOO difficult!?

[PonyGirl]

I so do not have a good feeling about this. LOL We'll be arriving in NZ in a few weeks and now I'm worried about getting a drivers license. I'm hoping it will be easier for my hubby since he has a NZ passport, but he's never been license in NZ as he learned to drive in the US. But his license will be 2 years old in January, so hopefully will be good to go. I have until July before mine will be 2 years old and unfortunately I do not have my old licenses because they kept the old ones when I renewed. Fortunately, my passport and US license have my married name on them, so hopefully that won't be an issue. Although I reckon you have to have PR before you can get a NZ license anyway, so I will have to wait for that. So anyway...all that say I hope I don't run into any problems and good luck to both of you!

[Mrs Pony]

I so do not have a good feeling about this. LOL We'll be arriving in NZ in a few weeks and now I'm worried about getting a drivers license. I'm hoping it will be easier for my hubby since he has a NZ passport, but he's never been license in NZ as he learned to drive in the US. But his license will be 2 years old in January, so hopefully will be good to go. I have until July before mine will be 2 years old and unfortunately I do not have my old licenses because they kept the old ones when I renewed. Fortunately, my passport and US license have my married name on them, so hopefully that won't be an issue. Although I reckon you have to have PR before you can get a NZ license anyway, so I will have to wait for that. So anyway...all that say I hope I don't run into any problems and good luck to both of you!


You shouldn't have a problem! And OH got his when we still had WHV's so agian.. you should be fine!

[Flutterby]

you don't need PR to get a new zealand license, but you do need to get one within 1 year of being in the country

[PonyGirl]

Mrs. Pony, I sure hope I am good to go!! Flutterby, that is good to know. Thanks!!

Good luck Grumpy Goat!

[dilanium]

PonyGirl. Before you leave the US- either make sure your license has an issue date of over two years ago, or go to the BMV and have them print out a paper stating the date you actually first got a license.

I walked in on the day they changed the rules (that immigrants from the US did not have to take a driving test) with my student visa in hand (they didn't even look at it) and a proof of address and got my license with no problem. My husband had to go to an optometrist to prove his eyesight was okay, but other than that he had no problem either.

I wouldn't worry too much as long as your name on all your documents are the same.

[PonyGirl]

Thanks dilanium! I have been debating doing that. My issue date will be 2 years old next July, so I would be within the 12 months to switch it over. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have the report from the BMV just to be safe. All my docs have my married name on them, so I should be good in that respect. Thanks!

[Kiwi Mac]

I just changed my UK license yesterday - only been driving on it here for 4 years....!!

When we first arrived they said we had to do the theory test (as if anyone cares what colour the lines on the road are at a Give Way Junction as long as you obey the big sign that says Give Way!!) and I decided to opt out of that hassle....!

Now they changed the rules and I no longer have to do it, so swapped over. Hurrah!

The AA did not make it entirely straightforward though so I know where you are coming from there.

[IanW99]

I just changed my UK license yesterday - only been driving on it here for 4 years....!!

When we first arrived they said we had to do the theory test (as if anyone cares what colour the lines on the road are at a Give Way Junction as long as you obey the big sign that says Give Way!!) and I decided to opt out of that hassle....!

Now they changed the rules and I no longer have to do it, so swapped over. Hurrah!

The AA did not make it entirely straightforward though so I know where you are coming from there.

So were you driving illegally then (or did you keep leaving the country)?

Suprised you weren't stopped in all that time.

Ian

[Kiwi Mac]

Mostly illegally although I did leave once or twice.

Why surprised? I just don't break the rules when I drive and I keep my vehicles in good order - thus they have no reason to stop me!

[IanW99]

Mostly illegally although I did leave once or twice.

Why surprised? I just don't break the rules when I drive and I keep my vehicles in good order - thus they have no reason to stop me!

Guess the police over your way are a little more relaxed. My wife has been pulled over many times without breaking any rules and her vehicle in good order.

Wouldn't be happy driving without car insurance either.

Ian

[Kiwi Mac]

We hardly ever see Plod here tbh.

I think they visit the unmanned station once or twice a week and have a beer in the local before going back to Masterton!

I have been randomly breathalysed at road blocks a couple of times - especially after Toast Martinborough when they stop every vehicle leaving the village!

Surely if they stop your wife without reasonable cause, it constitutes harassment?!

[IanW99]

...
Surely if they stop your wife without reasonable cause, it constitutes harassment?!

That's certainly what she says... :exit

Personally just think she is unlucky as I drive the same vehicle, same times, same routes and haven't been stopped.

Ian

[Kiwi Mac]

Hmmmm.

Let us not leap to conclusions here, eh?!

[unar]

Maybe this helps, Texas DMV allows you to apply for a copy of your driving records online (I assume that has license start date, and it is a three year record), which is really handy. Will do that this weekend, to make sure I get it before Christmas mail madness. :)

-Una

[GrumpyGoat]

Maybe this helps, Texas DMV allows you to apply for a copy of your driving records online (I assume that has license start date, and it is a three year record), which is really handy. Will do that this weekend, to make sure I get it before Christmas mail madness. :)

-Una
TEXAS??!! Yep--this is the source of all evil in my world right now.

You can NOT use the online feature if you have a commercial driver license--as my husband does. (he does NOT plan to get a commercial license in NZ--this is just left over from his youth and transporting the family farm tractors on trailers)

And I STILL have no real confirmation that the original issue date is on the driving history.

In fact, I am just sick to death of dealing with them. I spent almost 3 hours on hold with Texas yesterday morning trying to get this sorted.

They are really so far from being helpful that I want to scream. I am drafting a letter to a state senator. Actually, I may send something to EVERY state senator. And the governor.

There is no "Statement of Particulars" that Texas will issue. They will fax a confirmation of license to other DMVs within the US and Canada. They will not fax to New Zealand. They will not email anywhere.
So, if you are in NZ, too bad. The surly woman told me repeatedly that they DO fax to Canada--as if I will say "Oh, OK! I am now magically in Canada--please fax it here" seriously, how does the "fax to canada" help me?

Did I mention that I spent 3 hours on hold? 44 minutes before I got a live person. And then 20-30 minute increments every time I asked a hard question. How long does it really take to confer with a supervisor or another department? (example of hard question: Can you fax it to NZ?)

The "other department" is "correspondence dept" who decides who/what/when/where they will release records. The correspondence dept will not speak with mere mortals such as myself so I had to wait while the surly girl spoke with them. While I was on hold. Long distance. In New Zealand. (I have "free" US calls up to an hour--seems I went WAY over on this one)

After 3 hours on this call (about 10 hours total now), I have the following understanding:

Texas Dept of Public Safety doesn't know what they are talking about--if you talk to 10 people, they will ALL be rude and tell you 10 different things and will also tell you that "whoever you talked to before doesn't know what they are talking about" --but presumably the current surly girl does know what she is talking about?

TX DPS does not communicate with NZ--even if NZTA were to call them (as NZTA has offered to do), TX DPS will not release information over the phone. It will also NOT fax or email to NZ either.

OH can not order his records online because he has a CDL designation.

No one can confirm if the driving history (according to TX DPS website, it gives Name, Date of Birth, license status and address OR all of this AND your driving record for the last 3 years--accidents, tickets etc) will actually include the original issue date.
8 out of 10 people at the TX DPS have told me that it does NOT have the original issue date but the date you last changed anything--like address etc. If it doesn't have the issue date, this is pointless to get!!

Since we can't use the online system, to order a driving history, I have to mail an original form with an american $$ money order to them and wait 4-6 weeks (they told me that they are "very backed up" and it is taking a "minimum of 20 working days" to process)

The surly girl told me that I needed to get a friend to go get one for me at one of 4 "conveniently" located offices. (that's right--4 offices in a state of 696,241 km2)
Of course, NONE of them are located anywhere near where I have a friend/relative who would be crazy enough to spend HOURS in line for me.

Oh, and these convenient offices where you can get a same day print out of the driving history? They will be conveniently closed down at the beginning of November 2009. Yep, one week!


Soooooo, I have a friend who has agreed to drive 300 km and wait in line all day (and spend her $$) to get a copy of OH's driving record. (and mine as well--even though I can order online--why wait 20 working days?)

:wah:wah

Gosh, I am REALLY glad this will be my last hurdle (I hope) in dealing with the US bureaucracy structure.

good luck, Una!!

[JandM]

Ooooh.... I feel your pain. :wah

[unar]

oh no.... I am so sorry. Why is DMV never helpful?! I just have a normal license, so hopefully things will be easier. And surely a three year driving record means you have been driving for more than two years, even if it doesn't have a original date? Maybe I am being dim.

Fingers crossed you will solve your problems soon.

-Una

[GrumpyGoat]

oh no.... I am so sorry. Why is DMV never helpful?! I just have a normal license, so hopefully things will be easier. And surely a three year driving record means you have been driving for more than two years, even if it doesn't have a original date? Maybe I am being dim.

Fingers crossed you will solve your problems soon.

-Una

The NZTA wants an issue date. For whatever reason it MUST be an issue date.

I have THREE expired driver licenses--2004, 1998, 1992 --and two current ones. All with same DL # etc. Not good enough.

OH had insurance paperwork from 2006/2007 with all his driving info on there. It all matches his current unexpired driver license. Not good enough

I can prove (via TX DPS website) that a TX driver license is good for 6 years (ours expire 2010--meaning we got them in 2004) but that is still not good enough.

I certainly hope that silly driver record has an issue date on it!! I will know Monday, I hope--well, our Tuesday.

What a nightmare!

[unar]

Apparently Texas driver's license now have a new design including the original issue date. Just my luck :s

Just ordered my driver's record on line, hope it has everything I need.

Good luck GrumpyGoat on your dealings with the lovely Texas DMV.

[IanW99]

...
I have THREE expired driver licenses--2004, 1998, 1992 --and two current ones. All with same DL # etc. Not good enough.

OH had insurance paperwork from 2006/2007 with all his driving info on there. It all matches his current unexpired driver license. Not good enough

I can prove (via TX DPS website) that a TX driver license is good for 6 years (ours expire 2010--meaning we got them in 2004) but that is still not good enough.
...


According to the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999

Section 89A
(4) A person to whom this clause applies is not required to sit the appropriate practical driving test required by clause 89(2)(c) if that person has, for at least 2 years, held a valid overseas driver licence or permit issued in a country specified in Schedule 8.

You don't need to prove an issue date at all, just that you have held a license for at least 2 years which you can do. I would go back to them to resolve this issue as they are not correctly applying the law as it stands.

Ian

[GrumpyGoat]

According to the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999



You don't need to prove an issue date at all, just that you have held a license for at least 2 years which you can do. I would go back to them to resolve this issue as they are not correctly applying the law as it stands.

Ian

I think that if I travel to enough offices, some one would eventually give me a license with all my old expired ones. But that still leaves OH with no paperwork. And that still means I am chasing these papers either way(or he takes the driving test :laugh--but hate to pay $70 for it since we shouldn't have to)

TBH, I don't like to fix my hair and makeup. Ever. But I did for the driver license picture and then didn't get one. I am not eager to repeat until I know they will really give it to me. :D

[sheshe]

Well Grumpygoat, can sympathize.Went to AA office,with passport, licence and everything else.Wanted my motorcycle entitlement put on also, Noooo, cant put that on, need proof(no issue date) but its states on my uk licence that i'm permitted to ride motorcycles,no sorry, no issue date , phoneNZ transport agency. Phoned, get them to fax through copy of my licence,did so. Unfortunately lady had trouble faxing, so she said would phone me when got decision, phoned later that afternoon,they said no, need more proof. I phoned NZTA again they said had not recieved fax!!!Went to a local printers/faxers, got them to fax a copy for 1 dollar.Next day phoned them again, said yes, gave me a ref no and said go back to AA office.Did so next morning, dealt with another lady, she phoned them,offered ref no and was told yes straight away!!!Issued there and then!!!:bluebanana

[KelvinAng]

Somewhat related to the point of going different offices... I was once in the queue waiting to make some payment at an AA office, and two Chinese blokes were in front of me wanting to convert a Chinese license into a Kiwi one. They were rejected because it has expired several years ago and they were trying to explain that they had been in NZ for many years and having difficulty renewing it in China etc. This is in addition to the fact that the license is in Chinese and by right they would need a translation done as well even if it were still valid.

Immediately after the two blokes left the office, the lady serving them called somebody and described her situation and send through the names of the Chinese blokes. It sounds suspiciously to me that they were somehow blacklisted or something, or at least having other people in another office being alerted of the situation in case they tried to get the conversion done at a different office that is more relaxed in their checks.

[GrumpyGoat]

Ian
where did you get section 89 you quoted here?
can you give me a link?

trying to argue that argument

[Jo Jo]

GrumpyGoat: here's the link. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM281983.html#DLM281983)

[GrumpyGoat]

thanks but I found it with google.:nice1

[GrumpyGoat]

well, I escalated this issue to a supervisor (who was exceptionally nice BTW) and I have a reference number --they WILL be accepting my expired licenses as proof that I have had a license for more than 2 years. :cheers

She told me that Texas has been surly and hard to deal with for them too. And they apparently have some kind of book that shows that Texas licenses are valid for 6 years. But, that doesn't mean that they are satisfied for OH (who expires in 2010--which means he has had this license for 5 years)

I am calling the embassy now I guess. :uhoh

Or my dear friend in the US will be driving 300 km to get a driver history--and HOPE that it has some kind of issue date. :wah

[IanW99]

well, I escalated this issue to a supervisor (who was exceptionally nice BTW) and I have a reference number --they WILL be accepting my expired licenses as proof that I have had a license for more than 2 years. :cheers
...


Sorry, bit late, but glad the info helped you out :nice1

Ian

[bob_the_engineer]

They were really nice to me, I was given a licensee with no trouble. I found then to be efficient and helpful. Show them a UK license and pass a simple theory test and they write a temporary license out on the spot, they post you a new full licensee a few days later.

Just one thing, in the theory test remember left, you drive on the left… :D sorry couldn’t help myself




Bob

[stu & amanda]

From the other perspective.
My wife and I went into the AA Tauranga yesterday with our UK licences and all the relevant info - passport, proof of address and a badly filled in form and came out 20 minutes later sorted. The lady was real helpful, crossed out where we'd gone wrong on the form and put it right for us, all with a smile. NZ eh? It's brill!

[IanW99]

They were really nice to me, I was given a licensee with no trouble. I found then to be efficient and helpful. Show them a UK license and pass a simple theory test and they write a temporary license out on the spot, they post you a new full licensee a few days later.

Just one thing, in the theory test remember left, you drive on the left… :D sorry couldn’t help myself
...


Of course this was a while ago now as many of us no longer require to do the theory test.

Ian

[GrumpyGoat]

I took my reference number down to the AA office (though they were rude, they are closest) and got my license. No big deal.
The same hateful lady came and tried to find something to fault but she couldn't :D
I ended up dealing with a very nice woman to get the license. Easy. She just jotted down the reference number, gave me an eye test and wrote out a new license.
This was nearly 3 weeks (I think) of torture to end up finishing up in the exact same location with the exact same paperwork (and expired licenses) as when I started. It's ridiculous. But I am glad that I won.:nice1

Hopefully, OH will have his driver history from the US today. Fingers crossed.

[GrumpyGoat]

THANK YOU to everyone for their input and support on this issue.
You guys are awesome!!

[bob_the_engineer]

Of course this was a while ago now as many of us no longer require to do the theory test.

Ian

Really Ian I didn't know that, yes I guess it was about 4 years ago when i took it...

Bob

[girlwithanewf]

So with a UK licence do I not need to do a theory test? Is that the same for a German licence? Does anyone know? Thanks for any help in advance.

[JandM]

No, you don't have to pass a theory or practical test if you have a UK or German full licence. But while you're driving on that licence, before you have an NZ one, you should carry a translation of your German licence with you.

Here are all the official details. http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/56.html

[girlwithanewf]

Thanks for that information, hadn't thought about it too much as I was too concerned with visa applications but it is good news indeed. One less hassle.

[Flutterby]

i guess thats the trouble with emigrating, we spend so much time focused on the visa etc often something will get forgotten and thats where these hurdles pop up!

[Mrs Pony]

oh Congrats!!

I just got mine in the mail yesterday!

[GrumpyGoat]

I got my NZ driver license in the mail today!!!!

And it is a GREAT picture. So I forgive them for all the run around.:D

As for OH--we are STILL trying to get paperwork from the US.:wah
(he is ready to schedule the test but I am NOT a quitter!!)

[Mrs Pony]

YAY!!!!

COngrats!!!:clap:clap:clap:clap

At least part of its over!