[natcat86]

Hi yall,

When i graduate I will have a Ba in Primary education with QTS it is a three year course. Is this enough to teach primary in new zealand. i read tht although 2 years experience is prefered it is not essential. Just from the qualification point of view is a three year degree in primary education enough? Something else I read said that in NZ the degrees are 4 year for primary ed. :eek:

I dont want to send off all the stuff and pay the fee just to be told my degree isnt enough to teach in NZ!

:wah

Nat

[sophiedb]

hi Nat, someone else may be able to help further, but the skills shortage list seems to say


New Zealand registration AND three years relevant teaching experience

:(

[natcat86]

I had found an email someone had posted from teachnz saying that they accept nqts from uk. Was just wondering if my degree would be enough of a degree. Thanks sophie.

[JandM]

You could contact them and ask about your own specific qualification, to set your mind at rest one way or the other.

[tea drinker]

my teaching degree that was accepted by NZQA and NZTC was a 3 year B.Ed but also second what Sophiebd says about minimum 3 yrs experience.

think that it is GTP that NZ struggle with but think that if you can provide evidence of experience in support they are happier

Details are on ANZSCO list of skills

have read that if an overseas student does a teaching degree in NZ then they can apply for NZ jobs but haven't read about overseas NQTs being able to

check with NZTC what they will accept before you pay for anything

[natcat86]

Thanks guys. X

[natcat86]

I found the post that made me think that you could get over as an NQT

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-24602.html


Funny thing is both you sophie and you teadrinker are on the post!

I've emailed the teachers council myself now so hopefully will have it cleared up. Its horrble to think that I might have to wait three whole years longer to do this! Oh well good things come to those who wait.

:)

[JandM]

We all get that 'it's horrible to have to wait' feeling, I think. I know as soon as we decided we want to go, we'd like to have been there yesterday, with all the formalities done and dusted. ;)

[sophiedb]

Funny thing is both you sophie and you teadrinker are on the post!

lol, my brain is swiss cheese.. :)

[natcat86]

Here is the email that I got back,


If you wish to be employed as a teacher in New Zealand for more than 10 full days or 20 half days per calendar year, you need to apply for registration and a practising certificate. Any questions regarding residency applications or work visas should be directed to the New Zealand Immigration Service www.nzis.govt.nz





To apply for registration as a teacher in NZ, you are required to complete the TC0 – Application for Teacher Registration and 3 Year Practising Certificate form which I have attached to this email. Along with this completed form you will need to provide the processing fee of $200.00 and also any other documentation as requested within the form and guide. Please read the guide carefully and use other parts of our website for guidance eg: police vetting.



The following link to the TeachNZ website might also prove useful http://www.teachnz.govt.nz/overseas-trained-teachers/four-steps-to-complete



The standards that need to be met for teacher registration in New Zealand are the following:

are of good character and fit to be a teacher; and
are satisfactorily trained to teach; and
are or likely to be a satisfactory teacher and
has a police vet satisfactory to the Council
The Council has discretionary provisions that allow it to consider applications for registration from people who do not hold approved teaching qualifications. This pathway, called Track 2, requires the applicant to provide a package of appropriate material for the Council to consider whether the applicant is satisfactorily trained to teach and that the person has completed comparable tertiary qualifications. The Council makes the decision to approve or decline such applications.

A teacher is "satisfactorily trained to teach" if they provide documented evidence of the following, which will be assessed together as a package.

Appropriate tertiary qualifications relevant to teaching in the New Zealand early childhood or compulsory education system. Must provide certified copies of all academic qualifications together with official course transcripts.
Teacher education that is acceptable for teaching in the public education system in the country of origin and is accompanied by further appropriate advanced qualifications. Must provide certified copies of all teacher education qualifications, and official course transcripts as well as a copy of New Zealand Qualifications Authority evaluation.
Recent teaching service normally amounting to the equivalent of five years full-time teaching, (although a lesser or greater time may be determined by the NZ Teachers Council), and to have been principally in institutions relevant to teaching in New Zealand. Must provide proof of type of employment, dates of employment and the type of institution.
English language proficiency (both oral and written) for the purposes of teaching. Where qualifications and/or experiences have largely been in a non-English speaking situation, you will need to meet the Teachers Council language proficiency policy. Click here for the policy details on language proficiency.
Being a satisfactory teacher as demonstrated by evidence of: formal processes of "induction", "classification" or "registration", involving appraisal and supervision. Written evidence must be supplied.
Evidence of positive appraisal through increasing responsibilities and/or
promotion. Written evidence must be supplied.
Continuing education, professional development and in-service training.
experience as a "trainer" of teachers or professional supervision of other
teachers. Written evidence must be supplied.
The unqualified support of a school principal or equivalent person in the
case of an early childhood centre. Applicant must supply a letter on official letterhead, signed and dated.
Any other exceptional matters which the Council may consider relevant.

In all cases the NZ Teachers Council may require additional evidence.

Please note that salary rates are the responsibility of the school/centre and the Ministry of Education.

A teacher should not be offered a teaching position in New Zealand until the application for teacher registration has been successfully finalised unless the offer to be employed in a teaching position is conditional on getting approval to be registered as a teacher and be granted a practising certificate.



I hope this is of help to you.


So it does look like i will need three years exprience. Oh well :(

[melack]

Hi NatCat86,

I've just been through the registration process and may be able to shed some light......

I'm a secondary teacher with a 3 year degree & PGCE. Since PGCE I have 2 years experience (as PGCE is training so therefore not counted as 'experience') and see my timeline......NZTC registered me in just 5 days!
So 3 years experience is not required.

The "3 Year Practising Certificate" part of your post is referring to what you are given after registration, i.e. upon completion of NZTC registration they give you a 3 year practising certificate.

As far as I'm aware you need 2 years experience post QTS (including NQT) to be able to register. See these links:
http://www.edperson.co.nz/current/ep_sz_faq.htm
http://www.teacherscouncil.govt.nz/registration/renew/recent.stm

Hope this helps!
:)

[natcat86]

Thank you thats really helpful. X

[bob_the_engineer]

OMG it’s really confusing isn’t it!

When I was a boy a 3 year degree with honours was the goal.

A 4 tear degree (with honours) was something you got if you didn’t make the grade to get into an on old university, but you worked hard and got the same qualification with some additional effort, not great, but showed stamina.

These days it seems to be a disadvantage to have done your degree in 3 years, you can actually get a 4 year degree without honours now, when I was a boy that was a fail! A three year without honours was a fail, a four year without honours was simply embarrassing…

Sadly the professional bodies seem to be the only people policing this, employers seem to think that a 4 year degree is better value and even the professional bodies have had to move away from a bachelors to a masters with the proviso of a time frame.

I’ve been asked for my graduation year, and this directly effects my qualification.

Again when I was a boy you needed a 3 years Hons degree to teach, this had to be followed by a 1 year PGCE.

Bob

[rose181065]

Hi all,
I wonder if anyone can help me with my query. I have a 3 year degree BaQTS KS 2/3 English and would really like to move over to New Zealand. I have been working in my current school for 4 years, first year as a year 4 teacher and the last 3 as a Reception (NE Y1) teacher. Before that I worked two years as a supply teacher and two years before that as a year 4 teacher. Does anybody know of anyone with a similar degree to mine. It is a bit unusual as it's a 'middle years' degree. Any replies appreciated

[melack]

Hi Rose,
I wrote you a really long reply and it disappeared. Grrr....! Let's see if I can remember it......

I'm not sure if you know the sequence for teachers as it can seem a bit complicated to begin with.

The first step is to have your qualifications assessed by NZQA. My 3 year honours degree was assessed as Level 7. NZ honours degrees are assessed as Level 8 because they're 4 years long.

You then need to register with the Teachers Council. For this they need to see that you have gained QTS, preferably through a university course, e.g. BEd, PGCE etc (SCITT isn't accepted, GTP only under certain circumstances). They need to see a course transcript for both your degree and teaching practice - I think they need to be sure that you did some teaching practice as part of your training. I'm assuming you did, as I'm assuming all routes to QTS require this right?
The Teachers Council also want to see that you've had at least 2 years experience in the past 5 years, so you should be fine. The evidence I supplied was for years 5-13, which included my secondary PGCE specialist subject (as stated on my PGCE certificate) plus other subjects that I now teach. No questions were asked about my time spent teaching in middle schools, where I taught years 5-8.

Hopefully someone with your degree will come along & be able to tell you whether their degree was assessed as primary or secondary, because it is my understanding that you get more points for secondary. Although (before anyone jumps on me!) I'm not sure of this as I'm secondary so haven't actually looked into requirements/potential points for primary.

Anyway, hope this helps somehow!

[rose181065]

Thanks for replying, I think I just need to get my qualifications assessed and then see what happens from there

[melack]

Yeah, unfortunately the assessment is the only way to know for sure.

I applied for NZQA and the TC registration at the same time to speed things up. If you intend on doing this just make sure you tick the box on the NZQA form saying you want them to pass the assessment details to the TC - this saves you having to mail the qualification assessment to them yourself (you'll still have to send TC all the other stuff they want though, just this way you don't have to wait for NZQA to complete before submitting the TC application).
From receipt of my docs, NZQA only took 5 days to complete my assessment and the TC only took 8 days - much faster than I was expecting!

Good luck :)

[Super_BQ]

Sadly the professional bodies seem to be the only people policing this, employers seem to think that a 4 year degree is better value and even the professional bodies have had to move away from a bachelors to a masters with the proviso of a time frame.

The real reason why 4 year degrees are pushed because it all about the quality. For most areas of study, 3 years just isn't enough time to fully cover a subject. When I came to NZ 10+ years ago, my cousins didn BCom degrees in 3 years. For eg. at Canterbury University, the 'Accounting & Finance' was lumped together as a 3 year degree. While in Canada, the uni I attended to had specific degrees on each subject (Accounting required 4 years, Finance required 4 years). People here tend talk in "papers" whereas I was use to the term "courses". Ie. how many papers to finish that degree. When I looked closely to the university course calendar, for a typical BCom degree they often would have 27 credit to complete a degree (depending on the subject). Whereas at the uni I went to in Canada, 40 course credits were required to finish.

To break this confusion down further, a year of uni meant we had to do 10 courses (or in NZ papers) where it averaged each course was 4 credits worth. At Canterbury Uni, I think a years study was like only 6 or 7 papers. So during a 3 year degree program, the person may have done 18-21 papers (courses). While in N. America, a 4 year degree where students do 10 courses a year (5 subjects per semester) ends up having a total of 40 courses to their degree.

So how can you compare 21 courses to 40 courses? (3 year vs 4 year degree)? This has nothing to do with how fast students can study but instead, all to do with the 'quality' of study. Let me explain with the example of say in a BCom degree in Finance. Take the example of my cousin that did the Accounting & Finance degree in Chch. Of the 21 papers she's done, you have to wonder what courses were done. I realised that while in a whole year, she may do a course in say Intermediate Finance where the text book would have several chapters to study throughout the year. At the uni I went to, the courses were done in 2 semesters in the year. In addition to having courses that are marked 'Begginers to.... -> Intermediate -> Adavance", we also had specific subjects to take later on each chapter in those text books would be covered in detailed in later years, (which often were taught by professors that specialised in that area of study).

When I was looking at the Canterbury Uni course calendar, (at the time 10+ years ago), their economics degree was quite pitiful. I was looking for specific courses like "Labour Economics (study of unions, history of it, riots, etc.) Social Welfare Economics (study dole payouts), Health Care Economics (gov't social programs in health etc.), to Taxation in Economics, etc." that I normally studied in Canada. Each of these courses was an own text book in that field (hence the 'detail' and the 'quality'). Whereas in my cousin's case, she would cover all these topics in 'generalisation' in a book that may be called "Intermediate Economics" and these specific courses would be covered as a chapter in the book.

But not all universities are dumb. Enrolling from 1 uni to another wasn't easy sailing in Canada. We had lots of international students and I remember hearing how so many of them were annoyed as their overseas studies didn't get full credit. In fact, the faculty would evaluate their transcript course by course to the detail that the director or prof wanted to see the course outline of that subject. It wasn't hard to see that a subject say "Intermediate Economics" done overseas didn't match to the same credit as their local course say "Labour Economics" even though it was covered in a chapter. So, 1 weeks study of 1 chapter doesn't count 3 months (1 semester) study for that 1 subject.

[JandM]

Sorry, Super_BQ, but I feel that what you've just written is a huge generalization which glosses over areas of study, teaching and studying methods, national practices, and types of course.

[natcat86]

Here is the email I recieved from the teachers council.




If you wish to be employed as a teacher in New Zealand for more than 10 full days or 20 half days per calendar year, you need to apply for registration and a practising certificate. Any questions regarding residency applications or work visas should be directed to the New Zealand Immigration Service www.nzis.govt.nz





To apply for registration as a teacher in NZ, you are required to complete the TC0 – Application for Teacher Registration and 3 Year Practising Certificate form which I have attached to this email. Along with this completed form you will need to provide the processing fee of $200.00 and also any other documentation as requested within the form and guide. Please read the guide carefully and use other parts of our website for guidance eg: police vetting.



The following link to the TeachNZ website might also prove useful http://www.teachnz.govt.nz/overseas-trained-teachers/four-steps-to-complete



The standards that need to be met for teacher registration in New Zealand are the following:

are of good character and fit to be a teacher; and
are satisfactorily trained to teach; and
are or likely to be a satisfactory teacher and
has a police vet satisfactory to the Council
The Council has discretionary provisions that allow it to consider applications for registration from people who do not hold approved teaching qualifications. This pathway, called Track 2, requires the applicant to provide a package of appropriate material for the Council to consider whether the applicant is satisfactorily trained to teach and that the person has completed comparable tertiary qualifications. The Council makes the decision to approve or decline such applications.

A teacher is "satisfactorily trained to teach" if they provide documented evidence of the following, which will be assessed together as a package.

Appropriate tertiary qualifications relevant to teaching in the New Zealand early childhood or compulsory education system. Must provide certified copies of all academic qualifications together with official course transcripts.
Teacher education that is acceptable for teaching in the public education system in the country of origin and is accompanied by further appropriate advanced qualifications. Must provide certified copies of all teacher education qualifications, and official course transcripts as well as a copy of New Zealand Qualifications Authority evaluation.
Recent teaching service normally amounting to the equivalent of five years full-time teaching, (although a lesser or greater time may be determined by the NZ Teachers Council), and to have been principally in institutions relevant to teaching in New Zealand. Must provide proof of type of employment, dates of employment and the type of institution.
English language proficiency (both oral and written) for the purposes of teaching. Where qualifications and/or experiences have largely been in a non-English speaking situation, you will need to meet the Teachers Council language proficiency policy. Click here for the policy details on language proficiency.
Being a satisfactory teacher as demonstrated by evidence of: formal processes of "induction", "classification" or "registration", involving appraisal and supervision. Written evidence must be supplied.
Evidence of positive appraisal through increasing responsibilities and/or
promotion. Written evidence must be supplied.
Continuing education, professional development and in-service training.
experience as a "trainer" of teachers or professional supervision of other
teachers. Written evidence must be supplied.
The unqualified support of a school principal or equivalent person in the
case of an early childhood centre. Applicant must supply a letter on official letterhead, signed and dated.
Any other exceptional matters which the Council may consider relevant.

In all cases the NZ Teachers Council may require additional evidence.

Please note that salary rates are the responsibility of the school/centre and the Ministry of Education.

A teacher should not be offered a teaching position in New Zealand until the application for teacher registration has been successfully finalised unless the offer to be employed in a teaching position is conditional on getting approval to be registered as a teacher and be granted a practising certificate.



I hope this is of help to you.



So looks like you can teach as NQT as long as you are registered and its up to their disgression as to whether they register you. I asked if NQTs could teach and this is what she sent. I assume she would have just said no if tere was no chance. If you do get registered you can teach for three years which will help you get your three years experience over there which you can use for points on the EOI. So I might take the gamble and attempt to get registered.

[natcat86]

I'll be doing my NQT in England then then try to register.

[natcat86]

I just had another email from the teachers council.


We can tell you only about teacher registration but it is NZ Immigration Service who can tell you about entry requirements for coming to New Zealand.





Thank you for your enquiry. To teach/relieve in schools/kindergartens, teachers must be registered. If you teach adults, for example in a private language school, polytech or university you do not need to be registered.



Teacher registration in New Zealand is based on a person's teacher training qualification. All overseas applicants must have their qualifications assessed by NZ Qualifications Authority before they can gain registration. If they deem your teaching qualification comparable with New Zealand's then you will be eligible for registration. You can contact them at helpdesk@nzqa.govt.nz and www.nzqa.govt.nz and NZ-04-802-3000. I am sorry to say we cannot comment on your qualifications’ eligibility, only NZQA can do this.



Teaching experience is not essential since people must gain registration before they can teach. Everything depends on NZQA assessing your teacher training as comparable with New Zealand’s.



Please visit our website www.teacherscouncil.govt.nz and read the section Registration > Information for Overseas Applicants. This website will link you with NZ Qualifications Authority, and if you decide to go ahead you can download the TC0 application form from the website. You will also need a national police clearance certificate from any countries outside NZ in which you have spent 12 months or more during the past 10 years. This clearance must cover into your last 6 months in that country (if you have left it) or be no older than 6 months when your application is approved (if you are still in that country).



Processing of applications takes approximately 4-6 weeks if all the documents are present and correct.



Positions are advertised in The Gazette at www.edgazette.govt.nz.



So, as long as you are registered you can work over there, you dont need to have experience to work over there, you can get a job in NZ and work until you have enough experience to apply for PR under the skilled migrant category.

[JandM]

So, as long as you are registered you can work over there, you dont need to have experience to work over there, you can get a job in NZ and work until you have enough experience to apply for PR under the skilled migrant category.

And/But for that, you will need to get a work visa/permit. (I'm sure you are aware of this, but just adding the point for people who might find this thread later and be only just starting their research.)

[natcat86]

I've put in a request from the Visa Bureau to see what the chances of me getting a work visa/permit are. I might be able to apply through silver ferns too, but not sure about the family situation with that visa, as in will they be able to come with me. Just wait and see now.

[JandM]

There's no provision for families under the Silver Fern scheme. They'd have to be covered by individual visas/permits of their own.

[jo1966]

Hi, I did a 3 year degree then PGCE. I applied for NZ teaching registration half way through my second year of teaching and got registered with no problems. I have provisional registration and hope to have full registration at the end of the year.

[natcat86]

JandM thanks for the info, a fountain of knowledge as always!

Jo1966- I was having a look last night and it seems that without the 3 years experience I could get provisionally registered and then make up the rest of my experience over in NZ if I get a Visa. I think the process might be easier for secondary school teachers as its on the LTSSL whereas Primary is on the ISSL.

[natcat86]

Had my reply from Visa bureau. To move forward I would need a secure job offer before I could be issued a Visa. So its not impossible. We have enough savings that we could take the plunge and go over and try to find work for a couple of months but thats less than ideal. Wish I wasn't so impatient.

So the basic rule of thumb I have discovered is,
-if you have a BA in Primary Education, you can get it recognised and registered in NZ
-if you dont have enough work exerience to apply for PR you could still get a temporary work Visa
-to get a temporary work Visa you would need a secure job offer.

This is just my understanding of the process and not meant to be advice on visas or how to get one!!