[Mamee & Co]

We have been wondering about the benefits of Premium economy v economy when we do eventually make the flight. We will be two adults and two 8 year old boys (Can't afford business class and the boys wouldn't be accepted anyway!)

We are trying to decide if it is worth the benefit of digging into our capital to upgrade or should we just stay in cattle class (as my brother calls it!). we are currently thinking of flying Heathrow, Singapore, Christchurch with the potential for a stopover in Singapore.

-So upgrade flight
-Upgrade Hotel/length of stopover in Singapore
-Do full journey on the cheap and save our money
-other options I have not thought about

Any ideas and different views about the above options would be gratefully received. Curiously the boys thought Singapore would be a good place to visit...so I'm all for it!

[Duncan74]

Not sure for the move itself. I know that we had some friends doing the same sort of trip we did when we went last year, we did Business class flights and campervan for 5 weeks, they did cattle class and hotels for their 3.5 week trip. We both spent about the same, but they spent the first week having a miserable time with ear ache, and jet lag. We landed, drove to the Coromandel, slept 12 hours and then were fine. From what I can tell then the food in Business class is the same as PE, and that was superb. Ok, you don't get the lounge access (not really all that important, although the showers helped) and of course you have to make do with seats rather than beds. I think a lot depends on how tall you are. I'm 6'4", so it makes a huge difference, there's no way I could do economy for 24 hours, I've also got a dodgy back, and even 4 hours on a train from edinburgh left me crippled for 3 months and a 4 figure physio bill. On the other hand, wifey74 is 5'3 and so we really ought ot have got a discount as she hardly made the most of the space she was allotted ;-)
When we make the move then I reckon we'll probably go Business again, although we'd seriously consider PE as it looked fine. We flew Virgin Premium to NY and that was very disapointing for a number of reasons, although even I couldn't grumble about the leg room.
Having said all that, I reckon for a holiday it's more important to have a good flight as you need to recover quickly to make the most of it. For a one way trip, then unless you're due in work the next day, it's less important.

[Alan]

My personal opinion would be to upgrade to Premium Economy on ANZ, or possibly look at Singapore Airlines and go cattle class on the A380 which has a lot more room.

PS
Remember you get more baggage allowance going West.

[Manks]

What airlines are you planning on using as that will determine how great the benefit? I.e BA Premium Economy is just Economy with a bit more legroom. Oh, and a copy of the Daily Wail ;) Expensive newspaper if you ask me! Air NZ on the other hand is as Duncan74 describes, so much more benefit.

I would say that Premium Economy would probably be worth it regardless of whether you have a stopover in Singapore (if you're planning that I'm guessing you're not flying Air NZ). If comfort is the main factor, and depending on how tall the big people in your family are, it may prevent some serious moods - my DH is 6ft 3 so finds economy unbearable, but I'm a BA Silver card holder so can select seats in advance and so can book the exit/legroom seats. The one time we didn't get them he sulked all the way through the airport until I bought him a PSP to take his mind of the lack of legroom :laugh I digress!

Kids are allowed in Business Class, it's just not that common due to cost (I imagine) but I have seen kids "up front". Some airlines may have age restrictions though.

I do like Singapore as a place to visit. It is very clean (almost clinical) and relatively cheap as well. Definitely do the Zoo, including the night safari, which I really like, and Sentosa Island.

Only you can decide where to spend your money as it will be entirely dependent on your own priorities. If you want to keep hold of more of your savings then don't splash out of the flights and maybe have a couple of days in Singapore.

[Kanga]

Go with Singapore Airlines and spend a couple of days there. Won't add heaps to your flight budget but you'll arrive more rested and having had a better time than if you fly straight through premium economy. I can't see the premium economy offering the kids much greater comfort because they'll be pretty comfy anyway- but after 13 hrs you'll all be very glad of a decent sleep in a bed, a leg stretch and a shower. I've heard very good things about the Singapore airport hotel if you only want to stop for a few hours (we stopped for 11 in Kuala Lumpar in the Pan Pacific (!!) and that's enough to shower, sleep and breakfast) and good things about the night zoo if you decide on a few days. I think the jetlag is massively reduced when you break the journey this way so you recover quicker and feel so much better when you arrive.

[bluesky]

Air NZ premium economy is great. Especially the downstairs seats on the 747 - they have four rows just in front of the economy cabin, where there are no seats in the middle bit of the plane (it's used for storage, back of the galley etc) so each side of the plane is like a little private cabin with an aisle, two seats and then the window. It feels much more like business class than economy - you have much more privacy, a decent amount of space (although not a flat bed), better service, food, wine, headphones etc. Although it isn't 100% clear when you get to the airport, you do seem to be able to use the business class / gold card check in counter as well (but not the lounge, of course).

The also have premium economy seats upstairs but they didn't look quite so good, as they don't have the "small cabin" feel of the ones downstairs. Actually, the business class cabin didn't have that feel either.

Our flights were with young kids, and having the extra space and more personal service made a huge difference for them.

[nickiware]

Emirates economy on the A380 was great, lots of legroom, good food and excellent entertainment system

[norma]

The rooms in the transit hotel (http://athmg.com/) at Singapore airport can be booked for a minimum of 6 hours if you decide to go economy instead. You don't need to collect your luggage or clear customs to access this hotel. There's also a swimming pool if you've got a reasonable wait between flights.

Another route you could consider is going via Hong Kong. Cathay Pacific is a good airline and there is a Disneyland in Hong Kong if you're going to spend a few days there. A good place to stay is the YMCA in Kowloon - it has great views overlooking the harbour and family suites at very reasonable rates. http://www.ymcahk.org.hk/sales/html/hst001e.htm

[benandclare]

Emirates economy on the A380 was great, lots of legroom, good food and excellent entertainment system

We'd second that although as I had chosen to sit near the back they had run out of main dinner options by the time they got to us :wah

[nickiware]

I always go veggie so I get served first!!!

[Kanga]

If there's the option I request Asian vegetarian- most the meals are better than decent takeaways with TO DIE FOR sweets, whereas my kids have western vegetarian and that seems to always be a bit boring or creamy.

[1979vanessa]

you could always check out http://www.seatguru.com/ this reviews all seats on all planes, all airlines etc. You just need to know what type of plane it is.

[Shones]

I was dreading the trip from Manchester to Christchurch (via Heathrow, Bangkok, Sydney) with two small children, but, strangely enough, even going economy I didn't find it unbearable. I told the children just not to ask how long was left or what time it was, and I had a different inexpensive present wrapped up for each leg of the journey.
If I'd have had my husband travelling with me I'd definitely chosen the stop-over as it's a brilliant opportunity to visit somewhere very different (as it was couldn't face loading and unloading kiddies and luggage by myself). As we always seem to be on a budget, premium economy just seemed a luxury too far whereas seeing a different culture to me is priceless.

[icemaiden]

We looked at going business initially but decided not to spend the money on that but to have five days in Singapore instead. Even with the 5 day cost, it still works out significantly less expensive than the business option (more money for shopping!!). Re. premium economy - be really careful. With some airlines (like Virgin), PE is fabulous. With British Airways, it is a total waste of money. To be honest, I haven't heard particularly good reports about PE on ANZ: I imagine it's a bit like BA. My recommendation? Book economy and spend some time in Singapore or wherever you like for a stopover. Remember, with SIA, you get double baggage allowance anyway when you are emigrating. Good luck with your decision.

[bluesky]

To be honest, I haven't heard particularly good reports about PE on ANZ:

Well our experience was really good, but I suspect that a lot of that was due to being in that little section downstairs, which is pretty amazing. I could imagine that if you were upstairs (where the majority of the PE seats are) it's probably a lot less appealing.

[Duncan74]

As I said earlier, PE on Virgin was attrocious for us. I guess you will always get variability and people tend to talk about the negatives more than the good service.

[James 1077]

I'm 6'6" and would never spend my own money on PE. No matter who you are flying with I find it just isn't worth the extra cost. If I had the cash to fly PE then I would spend 12 hours in an economy seat, a couple of days somewhere in the middle with the cash I would have spent on PE, and another 12 hours in an economy seat!

When we came out we went NZ1/2 so did the whole flight with only a couple of hours in the middle. Its a pain but not that bad!

Business, however, is a far better proposition but the cost is too much for us (hopefully sometime I'll be able to afford it!).

[bluesky]

I'm 6'6" and would never spend my own money on PE. No matter who you are flying with I find it just isn't worth the extra cost. If I had the cash to fly PE then I would spend 12 hours in an economy seat, a couple of days somewhere in the middle with the cash I would have spent on PE, and another 12 hours in an economy seat!).

I know what you mean, but we found that when travelling with young kids, breaking the journey for a couple of days was the worst thing to do. All that happened was that the total journey time got longer, the kids internal clocks got even more screwed up as they partially adjusted to the stopover location, nobody slept properly, and we had to handle another baggage collection and check in process. A two week stopover, on the other hand, was brilliant, but not always practical!

[Mamee & Co]

So almost as many different viewpoints as there are in the family.

Would not like to spend BC money, would rather have it for arrival. Might be nice to travel in (marginally) more comfort but neither of us are particularly long (his shoulder width is another matter, but if I put a child next to him it wont be a problem). At the weekend we were advised by science researchers at the Science Centre in Glasgow who were from the sleep clinic that the fastest way to get over jet lag is not to eat en route and start our bodies from scratch on NZ time when we get there.

Does that really mean I can't eat airline food??? :wah

Current thinking is to fly to London and have a couple of days there to show the boys the sites, fly to Singapore and a few days there and then fly to Christchurch. Hotel in Singapore will improve if we fly pure economy and if there is not that much difference it would probably be better to have the cash in Singapore. probably flying Singapore Airlines...

But plans can change....

[ExitStageSouth]

I'll admit to being tempted to go for some form of PE. Not because of the extra few inches of space but because some of them have power sockets in the seats. Having a laptop up and running for the entire flight is worth the outlay.

[James 1077]

I'll admit to being tempted to go for some form of PE. Not because of the extra few inches of space but because some of them have power sockets in the seats. Having a laptop up and running for the entire flight is worth the outlay.

But for the difference in price you could buy a few spare laptop batteries and take them with you every time you fly!

[James 1077]

At the weekend we were advised by science researchers at the Science Centre in Glasgow who were from the sleep clinic that the fastest way to get over jet lag is not to eat en route and start our bodies from scratch on NZ time when we get there.

Does that really mean I can't eat airline food??? :wah



Jetlag is an area that I have had a long time to perfect my reaction to (parents lived overseas and I went to boarding school in the UK - most years I would have at least 8 long haul flights - but normally 10).

The sleep clinic people are, in my opinion, almost totally correct! My way of dealing with jetlag is to eat the right meals at the right new time (ie don't have dinner at breakfast time - this is normally not possible on flights so your best bet is to avoid eating; sleep on the plane at the correct time at your destination; drink silly amounts of water (I generally take a couple of 1.5 litre bottles for a 10 hour flight and order water whenever possible too); change my watch the minute I sit down on the plane; and finally, whatever I do, do NOT go to sleep before 7:30pm when you arrive at your destination - do not be tempted by a couple of minutes shut eye at lunchtime, do not sit in front of the tv in early afternoon and accidentally doze off, instead get yourself out and about so that it is impossible to go to sleep before an early, bur reasonable, bedtime.

Following these I get jetlag recovery down to a couple of days for UK to NZ flights and even then these days aren't hard!

[Clappy]

If you are asking the question then I would say don't do it. Have longer in Singapore instead.

We flew Premium Economy on Air New Zealand via Hong Kong when we did our one way journey over here last year having previously done the return journey five times on Singapore Airlines (we like Singapore Airlines and think they have the best economy class going although have not used them since 2005).

With Air NZ PE

Yes - you get more room.
Yes - the food is better.
Yes - the drink is better.
Yes - the service is more attentive.
Yes - the queue for the toilet is shorter.
Yes - the noise cancelling headphones are nice to have.
Plus you get the bonus of getting on and off the plane before the economy passengers.

But - when the journey is over and you walk out of the airport you have nothing to show for it so if your finances dictate that you can do one and not the other I would spend the money on the stopover.

[JandM]

Absolutely agree with James. I had this same advice before my first NZ trip from a friendly client who's a frequent long-haul flier for business, and found it works for me. (I've found you have to be quite emphatic to certain cabin staff about not wanting certain meals before they'll believe you mean it.)

[Duncan74]

We took a slightly different approach. Drove overnight to LHR, and then 'rested' but didn't sleep for a couple of hours before check in, so had been awake 24 hours by check in. Then made a real effort not to sleep until after take off from LAX, which I admit was a strain. But, and here's the rub, we slept 12 hours into AKL, then had a decent days collecting the camper and driving to HeiHei, bed at 9pm NZ time and by 8am next morning we were fine.

Someone did also say that you get more fresh air up front, not sure if I beleive that, but perhaps it's more that the density of people breathing that air is lower?

[ExitStageSouth]

But for the difference in price you could buy a few spare laptop batteries and take them with you every time you fly!

True enough. In fact I could probably buy myself a netbook or smartphone to replace my sadly departed Psion 5mx with the four hundred quid difference. I think I'm just very keen to arrive in a good frame of mind and not completely fried.

Then again, there's a good chance that I'll be pitching up in Sydney for a few days prior to NZ, so that may not be a concern.

[Kiwi Mac]

I have done PE on ANZ to Vancouver and back from Auckland.

The 777 seats are the same width as Economy but have more recline, better food etc.

The 747 seats are 2" wider.

I would not do it on a 777 again but the extra width on the Jumbo is worth it, as airline seats these days are so skinny.

Quantas PE seats are wider but I'm not a fan of Quantas or the awful Jetstar.

Singapore and Emirates are the two best IMHO, whatever class you fly.

[mikey and tor]

we came PE on Qantas via Bangkok and Sydney. Although the seats are wider and you do get more leg room and maybe the food is a little better, you still have to use the toilets located in cattle class and you get the same entertainment. So if you really want to pay two or three times the price of a cattle class ticket for a bit better food then go PE.
Would we do it again? Nah. Seats on the A380 should be good enough and from what I understand the price is cheaper than PE on Qantas.

[DMcG]

...when the journey is over and you walk out of the airport...

That's it in a one-er. My oh is over 6 foot with long legs and dodgy knees.
If she has to sit in cattle class for more than 6 hours she can barely walk when she gets off the plane - and usually takes two days to recover if its a 10hour trip or more.

I've flown to the UK twice this year with a mixture of PE and cattle class - and although the entertainment system in both is the same, I'm definately saving for PE for our next trip - the seating, service and quality of food and wine was well worth it.

Dougie

[Duncan74]

I noticed that ANZ form LHR>LAX>AKL also gives you the 64kg per person limit that you get in Business class.

[dusk]

A quick note about the air nz PE - it's not bad looking on the large planes, but if you end up on a 777 instead (as we did, although when we booked it was for the larger plane and it got downgraded due to lack of bookings) then the PE is, IMO not worth the extra money (fortunately we had already decided againt it)