[VileTraveller]

I must say this article has me slightly worried:

NZ grocery price hikes near OECD highest (http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/nz-grocery-price-hikes-near-oecd-highest-3126055) :uhoh

I do hope that more competition is introduced into the NZ grocery market by the time I make the move. I know very well what a supermarket duopoly does to prices. Here in Hong Kong, two chains (who also own most other chain shops like chemists) openly collude on prices and blackmail suppliers into not dealing with potential rivals who would like to move into the market, like Carrefour. Here, of course, the government will never do anything - I can only hope that in NZ the situation is less gloomy.

[GrumpyGoat]

The high food costs are one of the worst things about living here. It is really just shocking how much we spend on food.

It would also be nice if they would take GST off food. :exit

[Alive&Kicking]

I think I spend around 100 dollars a week for just myself on groceries, which is shocking when you think about it.
Yes, it is bloody expensive here compared to other countries and to the cost of other things.

Cheers,
Anita

[IanW99]

Out of interest anyone got the stats on which countries have the highest actual grocery prices?

The report posted just lists the percentage rise is second highest and not the prices themselves. This isn't too worrying if the prices started out a lot lower than other countries but not so good if they were already one of the highest anyway.

Ian

[Jolie]

From USB's Prices and Earnings 2009 (http://www.ubs.com/1/ShowMedia/wealthmanagement/wealth_management_research/prices_earnings?contentId=170298&name=PreiseLoehne_2009_e.pdf):

Highest food prices in Japan and Switzerland
Cultural, climatic, and dietary habits as well seasonal price fluctuations make it particularly tricky to accurately compare prices for food on a global scale. For our analysis, we put together a basket of 39 food items weighted mainly according to Western European consumption habits, whereby very important staples were included in larger quantities. The average worldwide cost of the basket is USD $385. Tokyo has the highest price tag for our basket, USD $710. Food prices are only marginally lower in Switzerland. Zurich takes second place at around USD $660, followed closely by Geneva at around USD $630. That makes food prices in Switzerland around 45% more expensive on average than in the rest of Western Europe.

(Auckland, the only NZ city on the list, comes in at Rank 44.)


USD$ for 39
selected New York City
Rank City grocery items = 100
----------------------------------------------
1 Tokyo 712 124.7
2 Zurich 658 115.4
3 Geneva 633 111.0
4 Caracas 604 105.9
5 New York City 571 100.0
6 Chicago 552 96.7
7 Hong Kong 551 96.5
8 Oslo 532 93.3
9 Los Angeles 526 92.2
10 Copenhagen 515 90.2
11 Paris 511 89.5
12 Singapore 510 89.4
13 Miami 509 89.2
14 Seoul 508 89.0
15 Luxembourg 480 84.2
16 Rome 477 83.6
17 Dublin 474 83.1
18 Vienna 473 82.9
19 Stockholm 471 82.6
20 Lyon 469 82.3
21 Helsinki 469 82.2
22 Tel Aviv 458 80.4
23 Milan 457 80.2
24 Munich 437 76.5
25 Barcelona 433 75.9
26 Madrid 427 74.8
27 Dubai 426 74.7
28 Istanbul 418 73.3
29 Montreal 418 73.3
30 Brussels 418 73.2
31 Toronto 414 72.6
32 Shanghai 404 70.9
33 Berlin 400 70.2
34 Lisbon 389 68.2
35 Taipei 388 67.9
36 Frankfurt 386 67.6
37 Doha 379 66.4
38 Sydney 378 66.3
39 Amsterdam 372 65.1
40 Athens 366 64.2
41 Nicosia 364 63.8
42 Bangkok 362 63.5
43 London 357 62.6
44 Auckland 354 62.1
45 Beijing 348 60.9
46 Jakarta 345 60.5
47 Manama 341 59.8
48 Ljubljana 337 59.1
49 Riga 304 53.2
50 Bratislava 299 52.4
51 São Paulo 295 51.6
52 Moscow 292 51.2
53 Sofia 280 49.2
54 Tallinn 280 49.2
55 Bucharest 278 48.7
56 Budapest 275 48.2
57 Warsaw 273 47.9
58 Santiago(Chile) 272 47.6
59 Vilnius 270 47.3
60 Rio de Janeiro 269 47.2
61 Bogotá 269 47.1
62 Buenos Aires 256 44.8
63 Manila 251 44.0
64 Prague 247 43.3
65 Nairobi 247 43.2
66 Lima 238 41.8
67 Kuala Lumpur 237 41.5
68 Cairo 228 40.0
69 Johannesburg 222 38.9
70 Mexico City 216 37.9
71 Kiev 211 36.9
72 Delhi 178 31.2
73 Mumbai 153 26.9


I'd say that this is a bit worrying, given that London's food prices are the same, but salaries are 2x - 3x higher there than in New Zealand...

[VileTraveller]

Oh, well, agricultural land is beginning to look like a more attractive option, as opposed to a "lifestyle section"!

[KatieBen]

I was surprised at how much we spent on food when we arrived. Knowing that the salaries are relatively lower (& having previously visited when earning £) I was expecting equivalence or a little less.

We spend $250/ week for 2 adults/2 kids, shopping mostly at pak'n'save. This is about a third higher than I originally budgeted (think our food shopping was around £100/week in uk at it's highest).

[petri]

I have never taken grocery statistics seriously.

If I look at the basket they use for comparison here, it barely contains any products that we buy. Or even if you buy them, they are products that you need buy once a month or half a year and not every week.

Internationally there's the culture difference. Of course Tokyo is at the top. But if you eat a japanese diet, I'm pretty sure they grocery bill will be much lower. In some countries you go to a huge hypermarket and buy everything, in some countries the locals visit half a docen specialist shops to get what they need.

Then there's the seasons and overall quality. You can easily double, triple or quadruple the price for a product just by buying during a wrong season or from a different shop with different quality. Some products may be more expensive imports, sometimes the opposite.

I think with immigration one just has to adjust to the local diet the same way one adjusts to the local housing, banking, byrocrazy, and other customs.

[Kea]

We spend about $220 a week on our supermarket shop for two adults, a baby (so includes nappies) and a cat. For that we eat well, but cook everything from scratch. It doesn't sound that much when you convert to pounds. But as a proportion of the average income it is a lot.

[Ngeru]

I have never taken grocery statistics seriously.

If I look at the basket they use for comparison here, it barely contains any products that we buy. Or even if you buy them, they are products that you need buy once a month or half a year and not every week.

Internationally there's the culture difference. Of course Tokyo is at the top. But if you eat a japanese diet, I'm pretty sure they grocery bill will be much lower. In some countries you go to a huge hypermarket and buy everything, in some countries the locals visit half a docen specialist shops to get what they need.

Then there's the seasons and overall quality. You can easily double, triple or quadruple the price for a product just by buying during a wrong season or from a different shop with different quality. Some products may be more expensive imports, sometimes the opposite.

I think with immigration one just has to adjust to the local diet the same way one adjusts to the local housing, banking, byrocrazy, and other customs.

If you are a Brit the local diet is not very much different, it's the same meat, just different gravy. :laugh

It is worth a look at the study Jolie mentioned above it explains a lot as to why I feel so poor compared to when I lived in London.

There's a little table that shows on average how many hours you need to work to buy particular (non-seasonal) uniform goods that are the same the world over, which really brings it home:

Auckland
1 Big Mac = 19 minutes
1kg bread = 19 mins
1kg rice = 13 mins
1 iPod nano = 16 Hours

London
1 Big Mac = 13 minutes
1kg bread = 10 mins
1kg rice = 8 mins
1 iPod nano = 11 Hours

New York
1 Big Mac = 14 minutes
1kg bread = 12 mins
1kg rice = 8 mins
1 iPod nano = 9 Hours

Sydney
1 Big Mac = 14 minutes
1kg bread = 16 mins
1kg rice = 11 mins
1 iPod nano = 9.5 Hours

[Clappy]

Swings and roundabouts.

It obviously does not apply to the OP, but for the Europeans the farmers here do not get subsidies.

So for the Europeans, how much more do you pay for groceries here and how much less tax do you pay that used to go on EU farm subsidies?

You probably can't answer that.

[Alive&Kicking]

Still if you compare the amount of tax paid for agriculture subsidies - bottom line is that your nett salary is so much lower here, that prices are high in comparison to that. And no, the government doesn't tell us exactly what is happening with our tax dollars.
However, i do not pay a lot being a student, and therefore every dollar spent on groceries is a lot!!! I am not bothered about the amount of subisidy / tax - at the moment the only thing that counts are the dollars i have in my wallet that i can spend and that is only a little. The same amount however would give me more and better quality groceries in Europe.

Cheers,
Anita

[Ngeru]

So for the Europeans, how much more do you pay for groceries here and how much less tax do you pay that used to go on EU farm subsidies?

I pay way more taxes in NZ than I ever did in London. It's not hard to figure out the earnings brackets are much lower in NZ before you reach the top whack of 38%, plus you get ***** all tax free allowance and have to pay income tax on every cent earned. There's no tax free income bracket; coupled with 12.5% GST on absolutely everything, including food with no tax breaks for savings schemes such as ISAs nor tax-free pension contributions.

The tax regime here is certainly no better and you still have to top up healthcare costs, GP visits etc.

Add to the mix that house prices today were announced as being at the highest for ten years:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10609240

and mortgage interest rates being considerably higher than the rest of the world, I think staying in the UK and bunging EU farmers a few more quid would be a more financially viable proposition.

[able]

UK taxes are going to rise dramatically.

Tax rates in the UK are wholly unsustainable. The structural deficit in government spending in the UK is equal to 21p in the pound on income tax.

To balance the books (and this is ignoring extra spending associated with the recession) the UK needs to raise the basic tax rate to 40% plus another 12% from national insurance to give a tax rate for average earners of 52%.

Political parties are keeping their heads down. Nobody won a general election telling people stuff like this.

Financially, the UK in the years ahead is going to be a very different place from the pre-2007 country.

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pdf/211009_120107.pdf

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/latest/2009/10/21/think-tank-urges-7p-income-tax-hike-115875-21763820/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8004567.stm

[Ngeru]

Financially, the UK in the years ahead is going to be a very different place from the pre-2007 country.

As will NZ and most places around the world I expect.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/recession-will-hit-govts-books-some-time-yet-114480

NZ is no better placed in all this, the Government is borrowing heavily to keep its head above water, there's a huge cap on Government spending, Treasury signals for the Public sector indicate no pay rises for the forseeable and I can see this step alone leading to meltdown with key workforces likely to see industrial action. It's the same story, the costs keep going up and nobody is seeing any additional or inflationary salary increases.

Increased ACC contributions from April 10 will add to the tax burden of every New Zealander.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10548370

I imagine it's more in your face in the UK with the media reporting a lot more of what is going on, making it a whole lot more transparent and I think in general people are far more aware of the state of the nation. Here in NZ it's very much watered down and wishy washy. The Government is far less accountable or reactive to media or public attention. We've a new(ish) Government that seems to be shooting from all directions and introducing new policy on a day by day basis - it all seems so me to be very scrappy and short term.

I think this article sums it up nicely:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10609121

[Flutterby]

didn't some NZ companies recently get in trouble with the competitions comission for grocery prices, because they have decreased recently around the world but have stayed high here?


Personally we are only spending about 75 at most per week on groceries and have a fully stocked cupboard so can't understand how some of you can be spending so much!

[able]

In plainer terms.

The UK government can't afford to pay its bills. It's printing money to stay afloat. This year the Bank of England has printed £7,407 per tax payer to pay bills the government can no longer afford to pay.

There has been no need for “quantitative easing” in New Zealand.

In the next 24 months, the UK will see tax increases and deep cuts in public spending.

New Zealand will see neither of these.

[VileTraveller]

Fascinating discussion on NZ vs. UK tax systems, even though this thread only started as an enquiry into Grocery bills ...

Are there any signs of any other chains breaking into the duopoly? I heard that Aldi made enquiries but nothing has come of it. Are any other overseas chains making moves in the direction of NZ? The problem with lack of competition is that costs or taxes have no real effect on prices in such a situation - the sellers will simply charge whatever the market will bear.

What alternatives are there to supermarkets? How common and accessible are farmers' markets or farm shops in NZ?

[petri]

The UK government can't afford to pay its bills. It's printing money to stay afloat. This year the Bank of England has printed £7,407 per tax payer to pay bills the government can no longer afford to pay.

I think there were some folks waiting to transfer the pounds to New Zealand and waiting for better exchange rate.. I think there's an answer here between the lines.

[Kiwi Mac]

I do wish Tescos would come here and kick the current incumbents where it hurts!

I also think that charging GST on food is sinful.

[newarrival]

I am probably going to be the pet hate by a lot of you guys- but sometimes I have to wonder.....
When you came here for your recce (sp?) trips or those of you who did not and learned all you know by doing lots of research, you surely must have experienced or found out about the prices for groceries as well? And you surely must have realised that at some point you would stop earning US$ or Pound and start earning NZ$?
I have a big problem with the comparison of prices in a huge market like the US or even England (with all the European market behind it)as opposed to a very small market in new Zealand, plus the fact that a lot of goods need to be imported plus the fact that there are no subsidies for dairy products, for example.
The same goes for salaries- people who move to new Zealand don't usually have the intention of getting rich, I guess!
Especially if you come from the US you seem to be used to prices which are ridiculously cheap, if I compare them to prices in Germany, for example! The prices for some things which are mentioned here sometimes can never reflect the value or price the good can be produced for!

What I find extremely interesting is the big gap between what some people spend compared to others, so there must obviously be a way to live cheaper here as well without starving or making huge sacrifices.

So, feel free to beat me up.., I just felt the need of saying that!:cool:

[Kanga]

I had a friend who arrived at the same time as we did but she always thought we spent an astronomical amount on groceries each week compared to her, even though she has the same size and age family. Then I went to spend a week with her and discovered that although she does indeed spend considerably less than me on her weekly shop, she then has all sorts of additional spends that she didn't include like posh skin care stuff, the odd take out, stopping for ice cream, picking up a missing ingredient for a meal, cat food from elsewhere, envelopes from the PO, fish from a nice fish market and so on. Therefore I think it's impossible to compare grocery spends without knowing EXACTLY what is included and excluded.

[Kiwi Mac]

@ Newarrival: There is - if you are prepared to lower your standards of quality etc to the local average.

The problem arises because those who move seek to maintain the level of quality that Tescos etc provide - and that costs a lot more here.

Part of the reason is that 12.5% tax is added to all your food, which it is not in many other countries.

[bluesky]

I do wish Tescos would come here and kick the current incumbents where it hurts!

Tesco prices would be quite nice, but not their awful stores. Tescos have some big stores, but in my experience they're mostly full of clothes, electronics, booze, and ready meals. If you actually want to buy quality, fresh ingredients for cooking with, the NZ supermarkets are far better.

[Kiwi Mac]

FWIW, we spend at least $200 a week on groceries for 2 of us!

That does include everything - cleaning products, shampoo, toothpaste, washing powder etc etc etc as well as food.

[Kiwi Mac]

Tesco prices would be quite nice, but not their awful stores. Tescos have some big stores, but in my experience they're mostly full of clothes, electronics, booze, and ready meals. If you actually want to buy quality, fresh ingredients for cooking with, the NZ supermarkets are far better.

Yes, but many of us would rather have decent ready meals!! Who has time to cook all the time?

M&S and Waitrose would be good too - the choice here is pretty appalling unless you seek out 100 tiny producers.

Cream is my favourite example: in the UK, you can have single, double, whipping, extra thick, clotted, Jersey, plus organic versions of all of those.

Here? Just one - "Cream"!! And we float on milk!!

[newarrival]

Ok, just a quick reply in between the jobs I really should do:o...
We do not have Tescos where we come from, but Aldi, and I used to go and by the bulk sort of groceries there (milk, flour, sugar), so I know about those prices (at least I knew them when we left, which is almost 5 years ago.
I don't think that we lowered our standard of living here at all- meat for example is so much nicer (and cheaper) than in Germany, so in this field it is a huge improvement. If I buy fresh produce, veggies, fruit etc., I do not feel that it is of worse quality, and the prices are ok if you buy what is in season. In addition to that, there are quite some stalls around apparently everywhere in the country and it even seems that you get some stuff a lot cheaper on the North Island.
Maybe we have a different perspective, because we are not used to eating out a lot, we never did that back in Germany (having four , at that time little) children it is no fun, neither financially nor nerve- wise, in my opinion), we were not used to hop on a plane and just go away for a weekend, so we do not miss anything there (on the opposite, there are so many things to explore around here), I never bought expensive clothing brands in my whole life (and am quite happy with that:cool:)....., so i really can't see any decrease in our quality of life, to be honest.

But everyone has a different point of view, I know and accept that- it just seems to slip people's minds sometimes that you cannot compare apples to pears- and in my opinion that is exactly what happens here a lot.

Just saw the last posts, including the "cream" one- maybe there are, at this stage, not enough people asking for that variety of cream. And, again from my personal experience- there are not that many varieties of cream in Germany.., and I do not think that Germany is a culinary desert.....

[Kanga]

Cream is my favourite example: in the UK, you can have single, double, whipping, extra thick, clotted, Jersey, plus organic versions of all of those.

Here? Just one - "Cream"!! And we float on milk!!

My in-laws found this incomprehensible. They are devon dairly lovers- eat butter by the slice, cheese by the wedge and lashings of cream on everything.

They thought I was utterly mistaken when I told them 'cream' was all there was .... and weren't convinced until I'd driven them round several stores and roadside stalls :uhoh

[newarrival]

But- do you really need these varieties, if you are buying ready made meals (as asked for or mentioned above) a lot of times, why would you need all sorts of fancy ingredients which only chefs would need anyway?:uhoh
Or maybe I just missed all those things all my life and we only had terrible food up to now?

[Kanga]

But- do you really need these varieties, if you are buying ready made meals (as asked for or mentioned above) a lot of times, why would you need all sorts of fancy ingredients which only chefs would need anyway?:uhoh
Or maybe I just missed all those things all my life and we only had terrible food up to now?

Erm, I don't buy ready made meals! I do like clotted cream with my (homemade) mincepies though and you can't seem to get that for love or money in NZ.

[bluesky]

Erm, I don't buy ready made meals! I do like clotted cream with my (homemade) mincepies though and you can't seem to get that for love or money in NZ.

You can make it, apparently. Looks quite promising:

http://www.avalonsguide.com/anab/2009/01/how-to-make-clotted-cream-in-new-zealand/comment-page-1/

I wonder if you can freeze the result?

[newarrival]

Kanga, I did not mean to address you re the ready made meals...., I still have no idea what "clotted" cream is, to be honest, sounds like full of calories;)

[IanW99]

...
Cream is my favourite example: in the UK, you can have single, double, whipping, extra thick, clotted, Jersey, plus organic versions of all of those.

Here? Just one - "Cream"!! And we float on milk!!

I know you are just making a point, but there are more creams readily available than just one!

Certainly regular cream, thickened, whipped and sour are all readily available from any of the super-markets.

Ian

[AlastairUK]

From USB's Prices and Earnings 2009 (http://www.ubs.com/1/ShowMedia/wealthmanagement/wealth_management_research/prices_earnings?contentId=170298&name=PreiseLoehne_2009_e.pdf):

Highest food prices in Japan and Switzerland
Cultural, climatic, and dietary habits as well seasonal price fluctuations make it particularly tricky to accurately compare prices for food on a global scale. For our analysis, we put together a basket of 39 food items weighted mainly according to Western European consumption habits, whereby very important staples were included in larger quantities. The average worldwide cost of the basket is USD $385. Tokyo has the highest price tag for our basket, USD $710. Food prices are only marginally lower in Switzerland. Zurich takes second place at around USD $660, followed closely by Geneva at around USD $630. That makes food prices in Switzerland around 45% more expensive on average than in the rest of Western Europe.

(Auckland, the only NZ city on the list, comes in at Rank 44.)


USD$ for 39
selected New York City
Rank City grocery items = 100
----------------------------------------------
1 Tokyo 712 124.7
2 Zurich 658 115.4
3 Geneva 633 111.0
4 Caracas 604 105.9
5 New York City 571 100.0
6 Chicago 552 96.7
7 Hong Kong 551 96.5
8 Oslo 532 93.3
9 Los Angeles 526 92.2
10 Copenhagen 515 90.2
11 Paris 511 89.5
12 Singapore 510 89.4
13 Miami 509 89.2
14 Seoul 508 89.0
15 Luxembourg 480 84.2
16 Rome 477 83.6
17 Dublin 474 83.1
18 Vienna 473 82.9
19 Stockholm 471 82.6
20 Lyon 469 82.3
21 Helsinki 469 82.2
22 Tel Aviv 458 80.4
23 Milan 457 80.2
24 Munich 437 76.5
25 Barcelona 433 75.9
26 Madrid 427 74.8
27 Dubai 426 74.7
28 Istanbul 418 73.3
29 Montreal 418 73.3
30 Brussels 418 73.2
31 Toronto 414 72.6
32 Shanghai 404 70.9
33 Berlin 400 70.2
34 Lisbon 389 68.2
35 Taipei 388 67.9
36 Frankfurt 386 67.6
37 Doha 379 66.4
38 Sydney 378 66.3
39 Amsterdam 372 65.1
40 Athens 366 64.2
41 Nicosia 364 63.8
42 Bangkok 362 63.5
43 London 357 62.6
44 Auckland 354 62.1
45 Beijing 348 60.9
46 Jakarta 345 60.5
47 Manama 341 59.8
48 Ljubljana 337 59.1
49 Riga 304 53.2
50 Bratislava 299 52.4
51 São Paulo 295 51.6
52 Moscow 292 51.2
53 Sofia 280 49.2
54 Tallinn 280 49.2
55 Bucharest 278 48.7
56 Budapest 275 48.2
57 Warsaw 273 47.9
58 Santiago(Chile) 272 47.6
59 Vilnius 270 47.3
60 Rio de Janeiro 269 47.2
61 Bogotá 269 47.1
62 Buenos Aires 256 44.8
63 Manila 251 44.0
64 Prague 247 43.3
65 Nairobi 247 43.2
66 Lima 238 41.8
67 Kuala Lumpur 237 41.5
68 Cairo 228 40.0
69 Johannesburg 222 38.9
70 Mexico City 216 37.9
71 Kiev 211 36.9
72 Delhi 178 31.2
73 Mumbai 153 26.9


I'd say that this is a bit worrying, given that London's food prices are the same, but salaries are 2x - 3x higher there than in New Zealand...



Not so sure about that. I lived in London for some time and in my experience, the increased cost of living in London is more down to the price of property and eating/drinking out as opposed to grocery shopping. A the price of a loaf of bread or bottle of tomato sauce in Morrisons/Asda/Sainsburys was no higher in London than in Leeds. Of course, you can spend a lot more on grocery shopping in London but then if you go to Whole Food Markets or Waitrose then you should expect that :) I lived in London relatively comfortably on £16k when I left university in 1999. But then my definition of comfortable is probably vastly different to others :)

[AlastairUK]

I do wish Tescos would come here and kick the current incumbents where it hurts!

I also think that charging GST on food is sinful.

Tesco has a lot to answer for, in particular putting thousands upon thousands of small businesses and shops out of business. Haven't stepped in a Tesco in 10 years and no plans to ever do so again. The last thing NZ needs is a Tesco!

[Kanga]

I know you are just making a point, but there are more creams readily available than just one!

Certainly regular cream, thickened, whipped and sour are all readily available from any of the super-markets.

Ian

Although 'thickened' is usually just cream with gelatine in and whipped is generally spray additive-laden/artificial stuff.

[AlastairUK]

FWIW, we spend at least $200 a week on groceries for 2 of us!

That does include everything - cleaning products, shampoo, toothpaste, washing powder etc etc etc as well as food.

Wow.. my biggest shop was last week at $85 and that has lasted me two weeks. Ok, it's just one of me :)

[Kanga]

You can make it, apparently. Looks quite promising:

http://www.avalonsguide.com/anab/2009/01/how-to-make-clotted-cream-in-new-zealand/comment-page-1/

I wonder if you can freeze the result?

Oh my goodness- so that's what happened to Avalon!

You can usually freeze CC so I expect so. I am quite tempted to give that a whirl this xmas as I have been invited somewhere really rather lovely for Xmas day and need to make some special stuff.

[IanW99]

Although 'thickened' is usually just cream with gelatine in and whipped is generally spray additive-laden/artificial stuff.

I never said it was any good, just that there was more than just one :exit

:)

Ian

[bluesky]

Tesco has a lot to answer for, in particular putting thousands upon thousands of small businesses and shops out of business. Haven't stepped in a Tesco in 10 years and no plans to ever do so again. The last thing NZ needs is a Tesco!

I agree, but Tesco to me also illustrates one of the worst aspects of British society - the superficial obsession with image, and the desire to be seen as "posh" and "sophisticated". For any given meal (e.g. lasagne) they stock several different ranges of ready meals, all with the same basic ingredients, of the same (often poor) quality, probably made in the same factory. But the more expensive ones will be branded "Luxury" or "Finest", and perhaps contain some irrelevant but exotic additional items. i.e. it's hard to buy anything simple with genuine quality ingredients - you can buy cheap, simple, poor quality stuff, or expensive poor quality stuff tarted up to look flash. The focus on a smaller range of quality basic ingredients in NZ is a breath of fresh air, and much more like you get in France, Italy etc, than the UK.

[Kea]

We're just back from a trip to the UK and there is no doubt in my mind that we pay a lot more for food and other goods in NZ. Some things are vastly cheaper in the UK. E.g three peppers for 99p (about $2.50 at normal exchange rates) while we pay about $2 each here, Dove shampoo for 99p ($7 in Auckland).

Arriving back in Auckland we've also noticed that in NZ has quite a dichotomy of shops. Things are either really cheap, or really expensive. To get the kind of quality you get in M & S or Tesco's you often have to pay a lot. Add to that higher taxes, the high cost of travel back to the UK, expensive housing and power and you can end up a lot worse off financially. I'm not saying quality of life is worse here, but it is something to be aware of.

[langers]

Definitely agree, people laugh when I say that it was cheaper to live in London but RELATIVELY it certainly was. I am staggered that a country whos economy is pretty much totally based on agriculture/food production could have such high food prices. Milk and it's associated products ought to be virtually free!

Has anyone else noticed that you could get NZ lamb in Tescos cheaper than here and also far higher quality, I can't get over the poor quality (and high price) of meat here.

[incredible hulse]

In the next 24 months, the UK will see tax increases and deep cuts in public spending.

New Zealand will see neither of these. Apart from the cuts to ACC, 500 jobs to go at health, etc, etc ?

Getting back to grocery costs - no brainer for me - NZ costs are way above UK and I can't see any improvement in quality of the goods.

[Flutterby]

you could get sainsburys basics NZ lamb for only a couple of £'s, but still personally i'd rather be here watching the lambs running around on the hills, than in the UK eating a low priced piece of meat

[newarrival]

Mmh, I wonder where you buy the meat that you think it is of poorer quality?:uhoh

Totally agree with you, Flutterby!:nice1

[GrumpyGoat]

Definitely agree, people laugh when I say that it was cheaper to live in London but RELATIVELY it certainly was. I am staggered that a country whos economy is pretty much totally based on agriculture/food production could have such high food prices. Milk and it's associated products ought to be virtually free!

Has anyone else noticed that you could get NZ lamb in Tescos cheaper than here and also far higher quality, I can't get over the poor quality (and high price) of meat here.

This is the thing that floors me. I have been told that it is because we must pay "export prices" or the producers would just sell to the highest bidder offshore. But somehow it manages to travel the world and still be less expensive there than here? makes no sense to me.
ESPECIALLY the high price of milk products. It is robbery.

[Sam B]

Oh my goodness- so that's what happened to Avalon!

You can usually freeze CC so I expect so. I am quite tempted to give that a whirl this xmas as I have been invited somewhere really rather lovely for Xmas day and need to make some special stuff.

Very true - I expect the best and I AM a lover of clotted cream. Cream WAS a good example of less choice in NZ because .... well, there's much less choice in NZ. e.g. single vs double, creme fraiche vs sour, clotted mmmm clotted, who cares about the calories, if you're going to eat cream, let's do it in style eh?

And, here's a confession to shock the frugal minded of you. We cook from scratch every night, and we don't buy any meat, and we have the occasional take-out, meal out AND we still manage to spend $300 a WEEK on groceries for a family of four. YIKES! Good job we don't have any other vices ... well apart from my coffee habit.

[benandclare]

On our recent trip back to the UK one of our first port of calls was Tesco's to get Clare's mum some flowers and also to satisfy Clare's "need " to shop at Tesco's again after 2 years away. Well that lasted all of 5 mins, the place was pants compared to NZ supermarkets, except for the cheap good clothes.

The way Tesco's screw the farmers and producers is appalling, mind you that is true for all supermarkets worldwide......... How do you as the shopper like paying for spuds with a 350% mark up :mad:

As far as I'm concerned this is New Zealand and this is how it happens here ' yeah it aint the old country but hey we've all decided leave there to live here, so make the most of what she's got she's one heck of a country and I love it here.

[newarrival]

I loved your reply, benandclaire:clap, even if I cannot judge on Tesco's and the like since I don't know it!

SamB- but you can get at least creme fraiche, even in Blenheim, without any problem apart from the price.....
To be honest, I find $300 a lot for a week's groceries, I might have spent that amount for the six of us, with boys in their growing phase, and including wine and meat! And I don't think that we are frugal eaters at all.., and I cook from scratch.

[incredible hulse]

Mmh, I wonder where you buy the meat that you think it is of poorer quality?:uhoh

Well Pak n Slave seems to do the same water injected chicken and Woolies has the same quality of beef - just they charge more for it

[Familyofmonkeys]

If you adjust to shopping seasonally, it IS possible to keep grocery bills to a reasonable level here in NZ.....but it certainly requires a lot more thought in terms of what you throw in the shopping trolley, and don't forget to factor in the extra fuel costs if you drive around shopping at different places. We probably do spend a bit more than we did in UK due to the current exchange rate. We feed a family of 5 for around $180-$230 per week....averages out at about $200pw. We don't eat meat, but buy substitutes like veggies sausages etc instead which I do not believe are cheaper. We also buy nice cheeses most weeks as well as some wine so we are eating well as far as i'm concerned. We now buy our veggies seasonally....not only are they cheaper this way, but also far better quality. We also stock up on canned/jarred goods when they are on special offer....and we currently have about 8 large blocks of cheese in the fridge as we bought loads on sale. What we have noticed is that food prices have increased significantly since we arrived in NZ two and a half years ago....especially dairy products and eggs. We have managed to keep our grocery bill at the same level simply because we have fewer children in nappies now.

[Kanga]

Very true - I expect the best and I AM a lover of clotted cream. Cream WAS a good example of less choice in NZ because .... well, there's much less choice in NZ. e.g. single vs double, creme fraiche vs sour, clotted mmmm clotted, who cares about the calories, if you're going to eat cream, let's do it in style eh?

Quite. I'll make it a bucket load of cc then- S has been smacking his lips in anticipation since I told him my plan.


And, here's a confession to shock the frugal minded of you. We cook from scratch every night, and we don't buy any meat, and we have the occasional take-out, meal out AND we still manage to spend $300 a WEEK on groceries for a family of four. YIKES! Good job we don't have any other vices ... well apart from my coffee habit.

Sure, but a good deal of that you spend in the Farmers' Market with a reusable shopping bag, so it's practically charity ;)



Shall we start on cheese now? Why oh why can't you get REAL proper eye watering blue here or farmhouse cheddar that crumbles when you slice it and tastes divine with fruit cake? What *is* colby actually made from and why does mozzarella never wash off your rubber gloves?

[IanW99]

...
Shall we start on cheese now? Why oh why can't you get REAL proper eye watering blue here or farmhouse cheddar that crumbles when you slice it and tastes divine with fruit cake? What *is* colby actually made from and why does mozzarella never wash off your rubber gloves?

Out of interest, have you tried the Te Mata Cheeses (http://www.tematacheese.co.nz/Accolades__Awards_15.aspx) blue cheese?


Cheesemaker Benny Matthews describes Te Mata Creamy Blue as" a great blue cheese with full mouth feel, rich and creamy with a clean full blue flavour.'

Ian

[Kanga]

Out of interest, have you tried the Te Mata Cheeses (http://www.tematacheese.co.nz/Accolades__Awards_15.aspx) blue cheese?



Ian

I used to live down the road Ian- I'm the reason they stopped the free cheese tasting :exit

However their strongest blue, like 'tasty' cheddar here still lacks bite, imo and is overly salty, I guess by way of compensation. Te Mata Cheese from Te Mata Cheese is probably pretty much as good as it gets, cheesewise, in NZ tho.

My mum used to visit me from Oz and return with a tupperware of Te Mata Cheese a couple of times each of the years we lived near it- the cheese situation in Oz is even WORSE and Te Mata Cheese keep photocopies of the information Australian MAF (can't recall their acronym) need to let the cheese in ... I guess there are a lot of desperate cheese lovers out there.

[Ngeru]

Shall we start on cheese now? Why oh why can't you get REAL proper eye watering blue here or farmhouse cheddar that crumbles when you slice it and tastes divine with fruit cake? What *is* colby actually made from and why does mozzarella never wash off your rubber gloves?

You have to wonder, I use it for cooking mostly and last week I grated some fro cheese sauce and left a small cube on the kitchen bench that wasn't worth putting back in the fridge. I then forgot about it for half an hour while I was doing something else, returned to cut myself a wedge to nibble on whilst cooking dinner. Oh lordy, no sooner it was in my mouth I spat it out, that stuff at room temperature has to be the vilest example of rubbery cheese ever. It doesn't even deserve to be called cheese.

[Jolie]

I've never understood what "clotted cream" is, but I've always thought that it sounded absolutely appalling.

Clotting is something that blood does.


:exit

[Duncan74]

I've never understood what "clotted cream" is, but I've always thought that it sounded absolutely appalling.

Clotting is something that blood does.


:exit





It's called that as it's what your blood does in your arteries once you've eaten any :D Not a big ingredient in many of the weightwatchers diets.

[VileTraveller]

Thanks for that clotted cream link, bluesky! We have the same "lack" here, although I never thought it was a lack when growing up in Germany. Still, now we can have the real stuff next time I bake some scones. Mind you, having five hours to rub together in Hong Kong is a rare thing, which is why we plan to make the move to NZ in a few years.


The last thing NZ needs is a Tesco!That may be so, but it sounds like what NZ needs is a Tesco, a Sainsbury, a Waitrose, an Aldi, a Lidl, a Netto, a Carrefour and maybe the odd M&S! Tesco is only a danger if left unchecked by the invisible hand of capitalism, or propped up by the all-too-visible hand of government market distortions.

Well, I expect I'll be doing more bargain-hunting and more (well, anything is more than nothing) food-growing in NZ, but it doesn't sound like a deal-breaker yet. But I really am looking at agricultural land now ... :p

[Silverwing86]

I find this subject of grocery shopping very interesting too. I checked with hubby yesterday what we used to budget for consumables (so not just food but also cleaning stuff, personal care etc., only wine not included) in Holland and he told me it was actually $450 per month more there than we budget for the same goods here and we still manage to save on that budget every year !

I think your post, FamilyofMonkeys, is spot on ! Although we still don't deny ourselves anything at all, we do shop differently here. We're more aware/ make more use of bargains and stock up on bargain items, buy veggies seasonally, and do shop at certain places for certain things (Farmers Markets are great !), whereas in Holland we just bought everything at the local supermarket chain (Albert Heijn) without thinking about it.

Quality wise we don't find much to complain about at all and we have managed to find good alternatives for practically all the ingredients we used to use before we came here. Sure it took some time and effort (we saw it as a challenge :D !), but we feel we're doing pretty well and are quite happy with the situation here. In fact, in some cases there are products available to me here that I couldn't get in Holland so I'm quite pleased about that :clap !

That said, I do still import my black coin licorice from Holland ;) (it's an addiction !), not because I can't get it here (Dutch shops a-plenty !), but it's usually not very fresh because it's often repacked into smaller amounts, and because I import it in bulk it doesn't cost me that much more.

Intriguing stuff all this !

Cheers,
Silver

[AlastairUK]

I agree, but Tesco to me also illustrates one of the worst aspects of British society - the superficial obsession with image, and the desire to be seen as "posh" and "sophisticated". For any given meal (e.g. lasagne) they stock several different ranges of ready meals, all with the same basic ingredients, of the same (often poor) quality, probably made in the same factory. But the more expensive ones will be branded "Luxury" or "Finest", and perhaps contain some irrelevant but exotic additional items. i.e. it's hard to buy anything simple with genuine quality ingredients - you can buy cheap, simple, poor quality stuff, or expensive poor quality stuff tarted up to look flash.

My dislike of Tescos is nothing to do with wanting to be seen as posh or sophisticated. I've never been described using those two words :) I don't go to Tescos for ethical reasons.



The focus on a smaller range of quality basic ingredients in NZ is a breath of fresh air, and much more like you get in France, Italy etc, than the UK.

100% agree with you here!

[AlastairUK]

Shall we start on cheese now? Why oh why can't you get REAL proper eye watering blue here or farmhouse cheddar that crumbles when you slice it and tastes divine with fruit cake?

Probably because NZ isn't the UK hence the products they sell here are different. Why can't you get pineapple lumps in the UK? ;)

[AlastairUK]

That may be so, but it sounds like what NZ needs is a Tesco, a Sainsbury, a Waitrose, an Aldi, a Lidl, a Netto, a Carrefour and maybe the odd M&S! Tesco is only a danger if left unchecked by the invisible hand of capitalism, or propped up by the all-too-visible hand of government market distortions.


Perhaps they can also bring British Home Stores, WH Smiths, Argos, Wetherspoons and whinging over too, and NZ will be even more like the UK! :D

[jeffanar]

Shall we start on cheese now? Why oh why can't you get REAL proper eye watering blue here or farmhouse cheddar that crumbles when you slice it and tastes divine with fruit cake? What *is* colby actually made from and why does mozzarella never wash off your rubber gloves?

But it looks like some of that cheddar is made in NZ anyway! Have a look here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10609636)

[Kanga]

Probably because NZ isn't the UK hence the products they sell here are different. Why can't you get pineapple lumps in the UK? ;)

Erm, well I'd be tempted to reply it's because pineapples aren't grown in the UK, but they aren't grown in NZ either, nor are pineapple lumps actually lumps of pineapple though ...

As for jeffanar and the chedder made in NZ comment- they may well make cheddar in NZ that is sold in the UK adn it may be perfectly reasonable cheddar, but that's not the kind of cheddar I miss.

I think it's a bit silly that one can't bemoan the lack of choice of *quality* dairy products in a major dairy producing nation without ppl posting afterwards saying "but there's sour cream here" or "but you can't get pineapple lumps in the UK" or "but NZ made cheddar is sold in the UK". You can love where you're living without loving EVERYTHING about it.

[Kanga]

But it looks like some of that cheddar is made in NZ anyway! Have a look here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10609636)

Just looked at your link and yes, I know most cheddar in supermarkets isn't from cheddar- but I crave proper farmhouse cheddar that you buy from the market or from the little post office and it is so strong you almost feel like you're eating onions and you get terrible bad breath afterwards- yummy!

[langers]

I think it's a bit silly that one can't bemoan the lack of choice of *quality* dairy products in a major dairy producing nation without ppl posting afterwards saying "but there's sour cream here" or "but you can't get pineapple lumps in the UK" or "but NZ made cheddar is sold in the UK". You can love where you're living without loving EVERYTHING about it.

Absolutely, no-one moves to NZ in order to live like they did in the UK but there are certain things that are plainly bizarre such as the extortionate prices for dairy products in a diary producing nation

[jeffanar]

As for jeffanar and the chedder made in NZ comment- they may well make cheddar in NZ that is sold in the UK adn it may be perfectly reasonable cheddar, but that's not the kind of cheddar I miss.

I think it's a bit silly that one can't bemoan the lack of choice of *quality* dairy products in a major dairy producing nation without ppl posting afterwards saying "but there's sour cream here" or "but you can't get pineapple lumps in the UK" or "but NZ made cheddar is sold in the UK". You can love where you're living without loving EVERYTHING about it.

Yes I'm well aware of this - I wish you could buy decent haloumi in New Zealand like you can in Australia (in Franklins of all places!) but I have yet to find any, something you have to live with!

I just thought it was rather entertaining reading this in the paper at lunch after reading your post :exit

[Kanga]

Yes I'm well aware of this - I wish you could buy decent haloumi in New Zealand like you can in Australia (in Franklins of all places!) but I have yet to find any, something you have to live with!

I just thought it was rather entertaining reading this in the paper at lunch after reading your post :exit

Have you not seen the "haloumi-style" cheese now being sold? Call me sceptical but .... dare you to try it first :exit

[jeffanar]

Have you not seen the "haloumi-style" cheese now being sold? Call me sceptical but .... dare you to try it first :exit

Hmmm I think I might pass - Haloumi shouldn't come in a nice neat little block!

[GrumpyGoat]

Well, this american misses some cheese too. All of them, in fact.
What is this stuff here called cheese?

I suppose some of the artisan cheese is good but I haven't tried much due to price.
Even just plain mass produced mozzarella is shockingly expensive.

And what the heck is "Tasty"? YUCK!!

The price of dairy products is just absolutely outrageous!

Of course, I have some dairy producing animals so I stay out of this market. In fact, I am just drowning in milk at the moment. :uhoh
I am going to get some cheeses going again soon. :)

[Kanga]

And what the heck is "Tasty"? YUCK!!

In the UK 'tasty' would be used to describe cheddar that isn't mild. Not sure how the vacuum packed rubber here warrants that description.




Of course, I have some dairy producing animals so I stay out of this market. In fact, I am just drowning in milk at the moment. :uhoh
I am going to get some cheeses going again soon. :)

You tempted to try clotted cream GG? It's DIVINE with fresh scones and jam and mince pies and of course here it's the season for both at the same time- how perfect!

[Kiwi Mac]

Best cheddars i have has so far:

Barry Bay 5 YO (only available in the factory shop I think - never seen it anywhere else) is absolutely gorgeous.

Had some from a 'Cheese Factory' just outside New Plymouth that was like cheddar flavoured butter! I have never tasted anything quite so indulgent.

As to not being able to get pineapple lumps in the UK - the UK is bad enough already: why make it worse by sending them the hideous Pineapple Lumps?!

Oh - and given we float on milk, I still don't see why can't you buy decent cream here? There may (sort of) be more than one kind, but not really.

It always seems to me that the 'poor kiwis can't afford anything better' thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy: if they all demanded better, they'd get it!

[newarrival]

Kanga, curious question again..., after I now "know' (at least in theory) what clotted cream is, I tried to imagine eating that with mince pies (which I love), but I have immense problems with that- isn't that like eating mince pies with butter? I know it is probably not the same, not even remotely (even if the process of making it seems to be very close to the one of making butter, in a way...), but it sounds horrendously fat, to be honest. And this is from someone who has usually no problem with anything "fat'..., lots of things taste only because they contain fat, in my opinion.

We have a young cheese maker here who sells cheese at the farmers market, it can be everything from mild to really smelly- sharp..., and we love it!

[Kanga]

Kanga, curious question again..., after I now "know' (at least in theory) what clotted cream is, I tried to imagine eating that with mince pies (which I love), but I have immense problems with that- isn't that like eating mince pies with butter? I know it is probably not the same, not even remotely (even if the process of making it seems to be very close to the one of making butter, in a way...), but it sounds horrendously fat, to be honest. And this is from someone who has usually no problem with anything "fat'..., lots of things taste only because they contain fat, in my opinion.

You do only eat a smidge of it with each mince pie, but yes, it is incredibly fat laden. Have you never had brandy butter with mince pies?

[newarrival]

Nope, never..., but that might have to do with where I come from:cool:.

When I was in England about a million years ago to attend a language school in the holidays, my second family there made pies and I loved them...., but they had nothing to go with them except peas and carrots!