baboonworld
6th May 2005, 10:06 AM
Personal Question I know but......How much money (NZ$$$) did you take to NZ or planning to take to NZ???
:nice1
:nice1
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Timbo
6th May 2005, 08:11 PM
I have polled, but at the end of the day, it WILL depend on selling the house for a fair price and getting a good exchange rate on the day.
joanne
6th May 2005, 09:31 PM
I cast my vote based on the current exchange rate of 2.59 however as we are not yet in NZ and we wont be buying till we have been there at least 6 months - we are hoping the exchange rate will have improved by then. But who knows...
lidax
7th May 2005, 01:20 AM
Which is more 2.5 X 0 or 2.6 X 0 ??
Oh of course you still have zero dollars :roll:
If only I had something, I could whinge too :angel
Regards
Fraser
Oh of course you still have zero dollars :roll:
If only I had something, I could whinge too :angel
Regards
Fraser
baboonworld
7th May 2005, 07:56 AM
oh my god!! 2.57!!!!
I thought the elections would have made it better for us!
I thought the elections would have made it better for us!
GeorgeM
7th May 2005, 08:27 AM
I thought the elections would have made it better for us!
But it all starts again - WE have an election which must take place before September... No doubt everything from exchange rates, house sales, the weather to the ABs losing to The Lions will be blamed on the uncertainty over whether HRH Helen will be returned or not.
But it all starts again - WE have an election which must take place before September... No doubt everything from exchange rates, house sales, the weather to the ABs losing to The Lions will be blamed on the uncertainty over whether HRH Helen will be returned or not.
lidax
7th May 2005, 08:28 AM
2.57 X 0
Yep still zero
The election hasn't effected me........ :cool rose tinted sunglasses, errrr .... no matter how hard I look I still see nothing...........
Yep still zero
The election hasn't effected me........ :cool rose tinted sunglasses, errrr .... no matter how hard I look I still see nothing...........
jo b
7th May 2005, 11:52 AM
We are really lucky
not bragging, honest just the fact that northern houses were dead cheap 9 years ago and we invested the rest of our money in shares, if the exchange rate stays as it is we will take $800k if it ups to nearly $3 dollers it could be $900k
Jo
not bragging, honest just the fact that northern houses were dead cheap 9 years ago and we invested the rest of our money in shares, if the exchange rate stays as it is we will take $800k if it ups to nearly $3 dollers it could be $900k
Jo
Timbo
7th May 2005, 09:10 PM
Jo. Make sure I get contact details off of you when you get down there. You are definately going to need a decorator. Favourable rates for forum members. ;) :laugh
jo b
7th May 2005, 09:46 PM
Timbo
I will defo take you up on that :clap
Do you do discount if I provide the beers :cheers
Jo
I will defo take you up on that :clap
Do you do discount if I provide the beers :cheers
Jo
Diny
7th May 2005, 11:04 PM
We managed to make abit of an equity killing on this place too.
All depends on exchange rates ...... but we don't intend taking very much at all with us until they are abit more favourable. The dosh can sit in the bank until then.
We won't be mortgage free, but we will be able to have a small 10/15 year mortgage and also a few acres (or should I say hectares) as a pension policy.
As for actual figures though ........ can't/won't tell you at this stage.
Diny
All depends on exchange rates ...... but we don't intend taking very much at all with us until they are abit more favourable. The dosh can sit in the bank until then.
We won't be mortgage free, but we will be able to have a small 10/15 year mortgage and also a few acres (or should I say hectares) as a pension policy.
As for actual figures though ........ can't/won't tell you at this stage.
Diny
Moorf
7th May 2005, 11:06 PM
Just out of interest - can anyone advise whether shifting money at the current exchange rate and putting it into a high interest account here (paying c. 8.5% ? not sure) would be better than keeping in UK at lower interest rate (is it?) and waiting for exhange rate to change?
debnjohn
8th May 2005, 01:55 AM
Just out of interest - can anyone advise whether shifting money at the current exchange rate and putting it into a high interest account here (paying c. 8.5% ? not sure) would be better than keeping in UK at lower interest rate (is it?) and waiting for exhange rate to change?
Yes, this is an interesting question (and one I can't answer).
But I'm gonna have a go to show how stupid I am.
Keeping things simple, if you had £40 and changed it at 2.5, you'd yield $100. So after a year at 8% in an NZ account you'd have $108.
If you kept hold of your £40 in sterling, you'd need the exchange rate to improve to 2.7 to instantly give you £108. Now an increase of 20 cents on the exchange rate can easily happen.
What isn't taken into account is the fact that
1) the exchange rate may worsen :wah
2) you will have to pay tax on the interest you earn on that 8% :wah
3) you can achieve 5% interest in the UK which narrows the gap (2.575) :P
I guess the crafty way to do it, if you can afford to let your money 'rest', is to have your funds in a UK offshore account out-of-sight of the UK & NZ taxmen. and the interest can 'roll-up' and accumulate tax-free until such time as the exchange rate moves in your favour :cool
Yes, this is an interesting question (and one I can't answer).
But I'm gonna have a go to show how stupid I am.
Keeping things simple, if you had £40 and changed it at 2.5, you'd yield $100. So after a year at 8% in an NZ account you'd have $108.
If you kept hold of your £40 in sterling, you'd need the exchange rate to improve to 2.7 to instantly give you £108. Now an increase of 20 cents on the exchange rate can easily happen.
What isn't taken into account is the fact that
1) the exchange rate may worsen :wah
2) you will have to pay tax on the interest you earn on that 8% :wah
3) you can achieve 5% interest in the UK which narrows the gap (2.575) :P
I guess the crafty way to do it, if you can afford to let your money 'rest', is to have your funds in a UK offshore account out-of-sight of the UK & NZ taxmen. and the interest can 'roll-up' and accumulate tax-free until such time as the exchange rate moves in your favour :cool
Bubbles
8th May 2005, 02:08 AM
I Like your style John :nice1
Diny
8th May 2005, 02:28 AM
John
We have an offshore bank account. Mark is a Kiwi, living in Britain, working for an American company in Egypt. He gets paid in US dollars. You can imagine the kind of taxation nightmares that scenario can throw up. An offshore account is the only way to go in our situation. This combined with a very astute accountant and tax consultant means we get by without being stung to the eyeballs.
We will continue this arrangement when we live in NZ as Mark is staying in the same job, the only change for him is that he will fly to the rig from Auckland every other month instead of Manchester.
The money will still be paid into our offshore account and then a 'certain amount' will be transferred into our NZ account each month as 'wages' for tax purposes. It's not exactly bucking the system, it's more like working it to our advantage. :laugh
Bearing in mind .... to allow this arrangement to continue, Mark will still need to be paid in US dollars and be out of the country for more than (something like) 190 days of the year.
Diny
We have an offshore bank account. Mark is a Kiwi, living in Britain, working for an American company in Egypt. He gets paid in US dollars. You can imagine the kind of taxation nightmares that scenario can throw up. An offshore account is the only way to go in our situation. This combined with a very astute accountant and tax consultant means we get by without being stung to the eyeballs.
We will continue this arrangement when we live in NZ as Mark is staying in the same job, the only change for him is that he will fly to the rig from Auckland every other month instead of Manchester.
The money will still be paid into our offshore account and then a 'certain amount' will be transferred into our NZ account each month as 'wages' for tax purposes. It's not exactly bucking the system, it's more like working it to our advantage. :laugh
Bearing in mind .... to allow this arrangement to continue, Mark will still need to be paid in US dollars and be out of the country for more than (something like) 190 days of the year.
Diny
debnjohn
8th May 2005, 07:46 PM
Wow Diny, what a complex situation!
Thanks for all that info., tho I must admit the thought of Accountants & Tax Consultants makes me shudder! In Mark's case this is obviously a pre-requisite with such complex affairs (I don't envy you!).
I was hoping to do it all myself, but guess at some point I'll probably need to take prof. advice. I have (mostly) unfounded pathological fear of all 'money' professionals (always get the impression that I could do it cheaper myself), and consequently spend disproportionate amounts of time researching unnecessarily.
Drives Debbie potty !
John.
Thanks for all that info., tho I must admit the thought of Accountants & Tax Consultants makes me shudder! In Mark's case this is obviously a pre-requisite with such complex affairs (I don't envy you!).
I was hoping to do it all myself, but guess at some point I'll probably need to take prof. advice. I have (mostly) unfounded pathological fear of all 'money' professionals (always get the impression that I could do it cheaper myself), and consequently spend disproportionate amounts of time researching unnecessarily.
Drives Debbie potty !
John.
joanne
8th May 2005, 09:18 PM
We will be putting most of our money in an off shore account. Opened a NZ account with Westpac last week, so we will transfer a small 'emergency' fund into that prior to leaving the UK. We are expecting to encounter an 'emergency' shortly after stepping off the plane!!
We plan to rent for 12 months and hope the dollar will improve in that time - hoping for the magic "3" Its a balancing act though, if house prices in NZ start to soar it may make sense to buy sooner rather than later. At the end of the day we are lucky to even be able to have these options.
We bought an ex-council house 6 years ago in Barnsley. It was totally
rundown. It had been empty for years and prior to that a man had lived in it after his wife left, taking the kids. He nearly drank himself to death apparantly, and had the house repossesed. Very sad.
We bought it in 1999 for 16 grand. I was pregnant at the time, we were renting and knew we wouldnt be able to afford the rent when I stopped work. All our friends and family thought we were mad. I spent most of my pregnancy on my hands and knees scrubbing or up a ladder.
Six years later, 20 grand later, 2 kiddies later - its a wonderful family home.
It has 'made' us ten thousand pounds a year.
We will now have a modest amount of savings to take with us to NZ.
The kids are school age now and I am looking forward to being a ble to do some sort of work over there. Our last day in this house will be Thursday. I am not sorry to be leaving, but this is the house that I brought my new babies home to. They took their first steps here. When I close the door for the last time I will have the feeling that all the hard work was worth it.
We plan to rent for 12 months and hope the dollar will improve in that time - hoping for the magic "3" Its a balancing act though, if house prices in NZ start to soar it may make sense to buy sooner rather than later. At the end of the day we are lucky to even be able to have these options.
We bought an ex-council house 6 years ago in Barnsley. It was totally
rundown. It had been empty for years and prior to that a man had lived in it after his wife left, taking the kids. He nearly drank himself to death apparantly, and had the house repossesed. Very sad.
We bought it in 1999 for 16 grand. I was pregnant at the time, we were renting and knew we wouldnt be able to afford the rent when I stopped work. All our friends and family thought we were mad. I spent most of my pregnancy on my hands and knees scrubbing or up a ladder.
Six years later, 20 grand later, 2 kiddies later - its a wonderful family home.
It has 'made' us ten thousand pounds a year.
We will now have a modest amount of savings to take with us to NZ.
The kids are school age now and I am looking forward to being a ble to do some sort of work over there. Our last day in this house will be Thursday. I am not sorry to be leaving, but this is the house that I brought my new babies home to. They took their first steps here. When I close the door for the last time I will have the feeling that all the hard work was worth it.
Diny
8th May 2005, 10:03 PM
I am not sorry to be leaving, but this is the house that I brought my new babies home to. They took their first steps here. When I close the door for the last time I will have the feeling that all the hard work was worth it.
What sensible words. I know exactly what you mean. I shall not be too heart broken to leave this house .... it is after all only bricks and mortar. But like you, we have done alot of work and put our own stamp on the place. It's where our boys have grown up, first steps, lost first tooth, started school etc. Things like that do mean alot (well to us sappy ass mums anyway).
Good luck with the journey, keep us posted, I shall look for your posts with interest as I feel your situation mirrors ours to quite a degree.
All the best.
Diny
What sensible words. I know exactly what you mean. I shall not be too heart broken to leave this house .... it is after all only bricks and mortar. But like you, we have done alot of work and put our own stamp on the place. It's where our boys have grown up, first steps, lost first tooth, started school etc. Things like that do mean alot (well to us sappy ass mums anyway).
Good luck with the journey, keep us posted, I shall look for your posts with interest as I feel your situation mirrors ours to quite a degree.
All the best.
Diny
Milliemoo
8th May 2005, 11:12 PM
We're not moving till Oct 2006 so we're really hoping for the 'magic 3'. Like lots of others, we've been lucky with property (although no one know what will happen in the next 18 months) and hope to take $450-500k with us. We plan to rent for the first 12 months using the interest from the lump sum to pay the rent. After 12 months we'll hopefully build our 'dream home' and be mortgage free. I think this is a big advantage when living in Auckland and I will only be working p/t.
Milliemoo :nice1
Milliemoo :nice1
Carol
8th May 2005, 11:21 PM
Blimey - reading this thread I'm starting to feel like some sort of pauper.
We managed to bring 12k with us 9 years ago. And got a measly amount of $$$ for it into the bargain.
:(
Still......onwards and upwards.
So has every home owner in the UK made a massive profit since we left then? Maybe we should have stuck it out....... :?
As in a previous thread I really feel like we have struggled financially all through our 23 years of married life - and to be honest - still are.
Wonder if we are ever going to get a break!
Not with me as a teacher I suppose.... :?
We managed to bring 12k with us 9 years ago. And got a measly amount of $$$ for it into the bargain.
:(
Still......onwards and upwards.
So has every home owner in the UK made a massive profit since we left then? Maybe we should have stuck it out....... :?
As in a previous thread I really feel like we have struggled financially all through our 23 years of married life - and to be honest - still are.
Wonder if we are ever going to get a break!
Not with me as a teacher I suppose.... :?
Diny
9th May 2005, 03:23 AM
Don't beat yourself up mate. Can't speak for the others but we've not done anything clever. Just good luck concerning property value.
We bought this house 7 years ago for 77k, just sold for 240k.
We're spewing too, if we'd pulled our fingers out and made this move 18 months ago we could have got an easy 260k.
We struggle too, and a sizeable chunk of that equity will be used to 'clear our struggles'. As long as we can pay our way we're happy, an extra few quid at the end of the day (and I mean just a few) is a bonus.
Sounds corney as hell, but we have our health, happiness and each other ....... that's the most important thing.
Diny
We bought this house 7 years ago for 77k, just sold for 240k.
We're spewing too, if we'd pulled our fingers out and made this move 18 months ago we could have got an easy 260k.
We struggle too, and a sizeable chunk of that equity will be used to 'clear our struggles'. As long as we can pay our way we're happy, an extra few quid at the end of the day (and I mean just a few) is a bonus.
Sounds corney as hell, but we have our health, happiness and each other ....... that's the most important thing.
Diny
jo b
9th May 2005, 04:05 AM
Sounds corney as hell, but we have our health, happiness and each other ....... that's the most important thing.
Diny
Here her Diny
Well said :clap :clap
You sometimes, not all the time, just occasionally you speak sense :laugh :laugh
Jo
Diny
Here her Diny
Well said :clap :clap
You sometimes, not all the time, just occasionally you speak sense :laugh :laugh
Jo
Diny
9th May 2005, 04:56 AM
You sometimes, not all the time, just occasionally you speak sense
Nahhh ... not me guv. :no
Diny
Nahhh ... not me guv. :no
Diny
lidax
9th May 2005, 07:25 AM
Dear Carol
I'm not bragging, honest....but.......we will be lucky to make anything, zilch.
If I should be so lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky.......lucky in LOVE :laugh.
This thread seems to be just people too busy gloating and bragging to have any consideration for the feelings of the people they have taken advantage of, in their misfortune; money made from 2 house booms, and over a million house repossessions.
These same people will complain in the next breath when there are no nurses, teachers and doctors on fixed wages and their children have good jobs but still can't afford to move out of the parental home because of the rampent house inflation they have caused. As happened in home counties in the 80's and is happening again in all areas and now being exported to a number of countries. History repeats itself, and the loadsa money phenomena is rearing its ugly head again.
It is the same in France the writting on the wall says "intergrate or go home." :exit
Regards
Fraser
I'm not bragging, honest....but.......we will be lucky to make anything, zilch.
If I should be so lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky.......lucky in LOVE :laugh.
This thread seems to be just people too busy gloating and bragging to have any consideration for the feelings of the people they have taken advantage of, in their misfortune; money made from 2 house booms, and over a million house repossessions.
These same people will complain in the next breath when there are no nurses, teachers and doctors on fixed wages and their children have good jobs but still can't afford to move out of the parental home because of the rampent house inflation they have caused. As happened in home counties in the 80's and is happening again in all areas and now being exported to a number of countries. History repeats itself, and the loadsa money phenomena is rearing its ugly head again.
It is the same in France the writting on the wall says "intergrate or go home." :exit
Regards
Fraser
Carol
9th May 2005, 07:30 AM
Sounds corney as hell, but we have our health, happiness and each other ....... that's the most important thing.
Diny
yes you are right Diny - and I guess bringing my kids up in NZ from 7 and 4 has been the biggest gain for us - worth more than any equity or even a lotto win!
We've been watching Brat Camp over the last few weeks.....
Ok so we must have the best kids ever if that is anything to go by - even IN teenager mode!
:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
Diny
yes you are right Diny - and I guess bringing my kids up in NZ from 7 and 4 has been the biggest gain for us - worth more than any equity or even a lotto win!
We've been watching Brat Camp over the last few weeks.....
Ok so we must have the best kids ever if that is anything to go by - even IN teenager mode!
:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
lidax
9th May 2005, 07:44 AM
Dear Carol
Totally agree with you :clap :clap :clap
Somethings don't have a price.
:smile :smile With my wife and kids, everyday is like Christmas :smile :smile
:smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile
Best wishes
Fraser
Totally agree with you :clap :clap :clap
Somethings don't have a price.
:smile :smile With my wife and kids, everyday is like Christmas :smile :smile
:smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile :smile
Best wishes
Fraser
Carol
9th May 2005, 09:10 AM
This thread seems to be just people too busy gloating and bragging to have any consideration for the feelings of the people they have taken advantage of, in their misfortune; money made from 2 house booms, and over a million house repossessions.
Been thinking about this over a cuppa and boiled eggs and soldiers.... ;)
Fraser I doubt - knowing the guys on here as well as I can - that they are bragging. In fact I know they wont be.
Equity is equity. You win some you lose some.
We didn't win much financially but won in other ways.
(Self made by us coming here to live)
That said - even that had a price on it - in terms of lack of family around us.
Whatever you value most is personal to each and every one of us.
Putting my heart on my sleeve - I know that is why it has taken my so long to settle here - because I left what I value most behind me.
It's good to go back and see them - but not the same as popingin for a coffee or planning to go to your godson's 21st birthday. in a few months.
Only we know ourselves what we value most.
I actually still miss my lovely house I sold (for a pittance ;) ) in England.
If I could have got it on a container and brought it I would have - because nothing I've lived in here feels quite like that one - and yes sentimentality is creeping in....first steps etc etc.
But........
WHat we originally set out to do - was provide a safer environment for our kids to grow up in.
We have achieved that so far.
So yay to us.
One day.........we'll be rich and famous...... :nice1
Or are we already?
:cool
Been thinking about this over a cuppa and boiled eggs and soldiers.... ;)
Fraser I doubt - knowing the guys on here as well as I can - that they are bragging. In fact I know they wont be.
Equity is equity. You win some you lose some.
We didn't win much financially but won in other ways.
(Self made by us coming here to live)
That said - even that had a price on it - in terms of lack of family around us.
Whatever you value most is personal to each and every one of us.
Putting my heart on my sleeve - I know that is why it has taken my so long to settle here - because I left what I value most behind me.
It's good to go back and see them - but not the same as popingin for a coffee or planning to go to your godson's 21st birthday. in a few months.
Only we know ourselves what we value most.
I actually still miss my lovely house I sold (for a pittance ;) ) in England.
If I could have got it on a container and brought it I would have - because nothing I've lived in here feels quite like that one - and yes sentimentality is creeping in....first steps etc etc.
But........
WHat we originally set out to do - was provide a safer environment for our kids to grow up in.
We have achieved that so far.
So yay to us.
One day.........we'll be rich and famous...... :nice1
Or are we already?
:cool
jo b
9th May 2005, 09:31 AM
Carol
thanks for that support
I was a bit hurt by Fraser's statement.
We lost money on our first house and yes lucky that NW property prices especially Wigan caught up with the rest of the Uk as for years and years they were much lower. So I have never ever taken advantage of anyone, just worked damned hard.
Fraser we aren't bragging just answering a question that was posed on the forum, everything else we have we have worked darn hard for and as a mother of 2 who has had to stay away from home on average twice a month for the past 4 years is tough. We also don't smoke or go out that much and every spare penny we invest, yes we have gained but also lost.
I supposed people with equity want reassurance a little bit that their investment isn't going to go down the drain. I know I am.
I really feel for people like Carol, as there for the grace of god go I, as it may well have been me having that struggle bu their is one thing for sure money can't buy friends and through this forum Carol will have a ready made family when we get out there believe you me...............in fact she be sick of the sound of my voice :laugh :laugh
Hope you understand where I am coming from
Jo
thanks for that support
I was a bit hurt by Fraser's statement.
We lost money on our first house and yes lucky that NW property prices especially Wigan caught up with the rest of the Uk as for years and years they were much lower. So I have never ever taken advantage of anyone, just worked damned hard.
Fraser we aren't bragging just answering a question that was posed on the forum, everything else we have we have worked darn hard for and as a mother of 2 who has had to stay away from home on average twice a month for the past 4 years is tough. We also don't smoke or go out that much and every spare penny we invest, yes we have gained but also lost.
I supposed people with equity want reassurance a little bit that their investment isn't going to go down the drain. I know I am.
I really feel for people like Carol, as there for the grace of god go I, as it may well have been me having that struggle bu their is one thing for sure money can't buy friends and through this forum Carol will have a ready made family when we get out there believe you me...............in fact she be sick of the sound of my voice :laugh :laugh
Hope you understand where I am coming from
Jo
Diny
9th May 2005, 10:29 AM
Fraser,
I can understand what you're trying to say, but you really couldn't be further from the truth. Believe me, if you knew me you'd know that I have nothing to brag about. This will be the first house that we have made any significant 'profit' on. We've sold houses in the past and only just scraped together the deposit for the next property.
Like my dear mate Jo says ... we're not bragging, we're just answering a question which was asked. I guess I had 2 choices. I could have a) ignored the thread or b) lied. Trust me to be awkward and look for choice number 3. I chose to tell the truth.
Not that it really makes a blind bit of difference to this subject, but I feel justified in wanting to tell you that EVERYTHING we have has been obtained through hard work, (and a certain degree of luck concerning the timing of our property purchase/sale). My husband works for an oil company and spends weeks (sometimes months) on end away from home. Our boys have never known what it's like to have a full time Dad. Have you ever tried telling 2 little lads who worship the ground that their dad walks on that when he goes away for painfully long periods of time that he's doing it for them? We've been married 16 years in September, in all that time we've spent 5 Christmas's together, 3 anniversaries and a very small handful of birthdays between the 4 of us. Only this very afternoon I found my little Fergie sitting crying. We were out with my brother and his family, having a great time. Fergie saw his cousins mucking about with their dad and got very upset 'cos he wanted to do the same with his. He's been away 4 weeks already ..... I told him not to worry - only another 2 to go.
Something else too ........ if we'd have bottomed out on this house sale and only made a couple of grand, I would be telling folks that too. There's nothing wrong in not having any equity, just as there's nothing wrong in coming up trumps.
You will see just a few postings above this one that I have said that the most important things to me are the health and happines of my family and the fact that the time we have together couldn't have a $ value put against it.
I think I mentioned to you the other day about our next NW meeting on the 21st. Why don't you come along and meet us all, see for yourselves that we're just a very normal, run of the mill bunch of folks who all share the same immigration goal. I can assure you that you won't hear anybody bragging or mouthing off. What you will hear however are some honest answers to legitimate questions.
Once again, I can understand your reaction, but try to get to know us just a little bit more before you draw too many conclusions. Come and meet us in person - you'd be made very welcome - and I'm sure all preconceived ideas about 'bragging moneybags' will be quashed.
Remember .... If you don't like the question that's being asked - there's a darn good chance you're not going to like the answer either ;)
Hope to meet you soon.
Diny
I can understand what you're trying to say, but you really couldn't be further from the truth. Believe me, if you knew me you'd know that I have nothing to brag about. This will be the first house that we have made any significant 'profit' on. We've sold houses in the past and only just scraped together the deposit for the next property.
Like my dear mate Jo says ... we're not bragging, we're just answering a question which was asked. I guess I had 2 choices. I could have a) ignored the thread or b) lied. Trust me to be awkward and look for choice number 3. I chose to tell the truth.
Not that it really makes a blind bit of difference to this subject, but I feel justified in wanting to tell you that EVERYTHING we have has been obtained through hard work, (and a certain degree of luck concerning the timing of our property purchase/sale). My husband works for an oil company and spends weeks (sometimes months) on end away from home. Our boys have never known what it's like to have a full time Dad. Have you ever tried telling 2 little lads who worship the ground that their dad walks on that when he goes away for painfully long periods of time that he's doing it for them? We've been married 16 years in September, in all that time we've spent 5 Christmas's together, 3 anniversaries and a very small handful of birthdays between the 4 of us. Only this very afternoon I found my little Fergie sitting crying. We were out with my brother and his family, having a great time. Fergie saw his cousins mucking about with their dad and got very upset 'cos he wanted to do the same with his. He's been away 4 weeks already ..... I told him not to worry - only another 2 to go.
Something else too ........ if we'd have bottomed out on this house sale and only made a couple of grand, I would be telling folks that too. There's nothing wrong in not having any equity, just as there's nothing wrong in coming up trumps.
You will see just a few postings above this one that I have said that the most important things to me are the health and happines of my family and the fact that the time we have together couldn't have a $ value put against it.
I think I mentioned to you the other day about our next NW meeting on the 21st. Why don't you come along and meet us all, see for yourselves that we're just a very normal, run of the mill bunch of folks who all share the same immigration goal. I can assure you that you won't hear anybody bragging or mouthing off. What you will hear however are some honest answers to legitimate questions.
Once again, I can understand your reaction, but try to get to know us just a little bit more before you draw too many conclusions. Come and meet us in person - you'd be made very welcome - and I'm sure all preconceived ideas about 'bragging moneybags' will be quashed.
Remember .... If you don't like the question that's being asked - there's a darn good chance you're not going to like the answer either ;)
Hope to meet you soon.
Diny
joanne
9th May 2005, 10:37 AM
Fraser, the people who have posted on this thread about the money they have made from the sale of their property are not bragging.
This thread begins by someone ASKING about equity - infact starting a poll about it. So it stands to reason that people will post about equity on this thread.
I think it is unfair of you to say that people have taken advantage of others. If you read my post carefully, you would have noted that I said I felt sad about the circumstances surrounding the purchace of my house from the previous owner. I also stated that I realize how lucky we are to even have any options open to us.
I suffered in the 'boom and bust' eighties. I was 19, just married and a few years later I had my house repossesed and a failed marriage - not helped by financial difficulties. Thats life - get over it.
I have made a modest amount from the sale of my house - I wont apologise for that. We got it cheap cos it was almost derelict and in a crap area - but it was all we could afford at the time. Alot of hard work, and a little luck has paid off for us. Oh, sorry, here I go bragging again, just cant help myself.
This thread begins by someone ASKING about equity - infact starting a poll about it. So it stands to reason that people will post about equity on this thread.
I think it is unfair of you to say that people have taken advantage of others. If you read my post carefully, you would have noted that I said I felt sad about the circumstances surrounding the purchace of my house from the previous owner. I also stated that I realize how lucky we are to even have any options open to us.
I suffered in the 'boom and bust' eighties. I was 19, just married and a few years later I had my house repossesed and a failed marriage - not helped by financial difficulties. Thats life - get over it.
I have made a modest amount from the sale of my house - I wont apologise for that. We got it cheap cos it was almost derelict and in a crap area - but it was all we could afford at the time. Alot of hard work, and a little luck has paid off for us. Oh, sorry, here I go bragging again, just cant help myself.
Diny
9th May 2005, 11:01 AM
Just as an afterthought Fraser ... and please don't think I'm being pedantic, I'm just interested to know.
Fictional scenario (maybe not - I dunno).
You have your house up for sale. The agent says it's worth 175k. He has a cash buyer who can complete within 6 weeks and is willing to pay 175k. However - you only paid 80k for it 5 years ago.
Do you:
A) Refuse the 175k and tell the buyer that you wouldn't be able to sleep at night as you would be taking advantage of them and would also be contributing to the lack of nurses, teachers and affordable housing for the next generation and tell him you won't take a penny over 90k for it - feeling happy that you've come away 10k up.
or
B) Agree to the offer, pack up and move to NZ with a 95k nest egg to set you up.
Just a simple A or B answer will suffice. :nice1
Diny
Fictional scenario (maybe not - I dunno).
You have your house up for sale. The agent says it's worth 175k. He has a cash buyer who can complete within 6 weeks and is willing to pay 175k. However - you only paid 80k for it 5 years ago.
Do you:
A) Refuse the 175k and tell the buyer that you wouldn't be able to sleep at night as you would be taking advantage of them and would also be contributing to the lack of nurses, teachers and affordable housing for the next generation and tell him you won't take a penny over 90k for it - feeling happy that you've come away 10k up.
or
B) Agree to the offer, pack up and move to NZ with a 95k nest egg to set you up.
Just a simple A or B answer will suffice. :nice1
Diny
lidax
9th May 2005, 06:37 PM
Hi Diny
I am disappointed for all of you, People I worked with struggled to raise morgages of £1500 and many have sold their propeties for over £1,000,000 nobody recently has got anywhere near this. They are now retired quite comfortably.
Why should people have to leave the country to achieve nowhere near the same. I have sat on commitees where the people enhanced pensions have not been paid because there was no money even though they are entitled to it. Anyone under about 50 are paying for their retirement which they will not get when it their turn. You have been robbed.
Do people really want to go to NZ or do they just want a big house here and are settling for 2nd best and can't adjust to the different culture.
Doing missionary work in the home counties for a number of years people are using the same phrases either side of the north/south divide now, perhaps you have put more thought into what you are doing than they have.
I work on computers and I can read data some are retiring with about $3,000,000 they are never questioning this country.
It was not by skill, just being born at the right time.
Don't expect anyone to do anything different just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush.
Regards
Fraser
I am disappointed for all of you, People I worked with struggled to raise morgages of £1500 and many have sold their propeties for over £1,000,000 nobody recently has got anywhere near this. They are now retired quite comfortably.
Why should people have to leave the country to achieve nowhere near the same. I have sat on commitees where the people enhanced pensions have not been paid because there was no money even though they are entitled to it. Anyone under about 50 are paying for their retirement which they will not get when it their turn. You have been robbed.
Do people really want to go to NZ or do they just want a big house here and are settling for 2nd best and can't adjust to the different culture.
Doing missionary work in the home counties for a number of years people are using the same phrases either side of the north/south divide now, perhaps you have put more thought into what you are doing than they have.
I work on computers and I can read data some are retiring with about $3,000,000 they are never questioning this country.
It was not by skill, just being born at the right time.
Don't expect anyone to do anything different just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush.
Regards
Fraser
Mildred
9th May 2005, 06:48 PM
Well we have just had our cottage valued at £350,000. Only got £15,000 left to pay on the mortgage so most of it is ours BUT we have nearly killed ourselves getting to this stage.
Would you have been interested in a cottage which was 400 years old and literally on the point of being condemned? There was nothing holding it together. It took my husband two years just to re-do the leaky roof. Every Kent Peg Tile replaced by my husband. We built a large extension, again all the work done by myself and my husband in addition to holding down full time jobs at the time. When I brought my first child home from the Maternity Ward we literally had no floor in the front room. Just a plank of wood leading to the kitchen. The kitchen wasn't even complete, just a sink, microwave oven and table to start with. We all slept in a room with just breeze blocks for decoration for several years. I dreaded the health visitor coming round for the first time. What with the state of the house and owning a Rottweiller I was convinced my son would be taken into care :uhoh Luckily she saw passed the building work and loved our dog. Even when I was pregnant I was helping support very large beams and carrying building materials around which is difficult when a pregnancy bump stops you bending over. Neither of us were afraid to get stuck in and get our hands dirty. In the middle of all this, I suffered severe post natal depression which resulted in me losing the job I love, and having a breakdown :(
What I am trying to say is we live minutes from the beach, pub, golf course etc in an acre of ground. Holiday makers stop outside the cottage taking photos, our new neighbours who over committed themselves with their mortgage won't even speak to us anymore since we upgraded our car. Apparently they are really jealous of our situation. But at the time we bought the cottage, no one would even consider stepping inside it as it was in such a state. Even now we still have no carpet in the hall, just bare concrete. Obviously if the house goes on the market this will be rectified!
We could have moved to a ready made house and got seriously in debt, or we could have done things the hard way. We had a choice and we made it.
Incidentally my husband always said that by the time he got to 30 he would have no mortgage. He actually achieved this by buying a wreck of a house when he was 20, doing it up and selling it for double what he paid for it. This went on successfully until his ex-wife ran off pregnant by her boss, and he had to go back to square one, take out a large mortgage to pay her off. But that's another story :?
I know I have rushed typing this and hope I don't come across the wrong way. I wish you good luck Fraser. There are opportunities out there for us all, but it depends which route we want to take in life.
Would you have been interested in a cottage which was 400 years old and literally on the point of being condemned? There was nothing holding it together. It took my husband two years just to re-do the leaky roof. Every Kent Peg Tile replaced by my husband. We built a large extension, again all the work done by myself and my husband in addition to holding down full time jobs at the time. When I brought my first child home from the Maternity Ward we literally had no floor in the front room. Just a plank of wood leading to the kitchen. The kitchen wasn't even complete, just a sink, microwave oven and table to start with. We all slept in a room with just breeze blocks for decoration for several years. I dreaded the health visitor coming round for the first time. What with the state of the house and owning a Rottweiller I was convinced my son would be taken into care :uhoh Luckily she saw passed the building work and loved our dog. Even when I was pregnant I was helping support very large beams and carrying building materials around which is difficult when a pregnancy bump stops you bending over. Neither of us were afraid to get stuck in and get our hands dirty. In the middle of all this, I suffered severe post natal depression which resulted in me losing the job I love, and having a breakdown :(
What I am trying to say is we live minutes from the beach, pub, golf course etc in an acre of ground. Holiday makers stop outside the cottage taking photos, our new neighbours who over committed themselves with their mortgage won't even speak to us anymore since we upgraded our car. Apparently they are really jealous of our situation. But at the time we bought the cottage, no one would even consider stepping inside it as it was in such a state. Even now we still have no carpet in the hall, just bare concrete. Obviously if the house goes on the market this will be rectified!
We could have moved to a ready made house and got seriously in debt, or we could have done things the hard way. We had a choice and we made it.
Incidentally my husband always said that by the time he got to 30 he would have no mortgage. He actually achieved this by buying a wreck of a house when he was 20, doing it up and selling it for double what he paid for it. This went on successfully until his ex-wife ran off pregnant by her boss, and he had to go back to square one, take out a large mortgage to pay her off. But that's another story :?
I know I have rushed typing this and hope I don't come across the wrong way. I wish you good luck Fraser. There are opportunities out there for us all, but it depends which route we want to take in life.
Diny
9th May 2005, 06:58 PM
Fraser
I'm not too sure I understand your reply. I think you're calling me crass. Well thanks. I can asure you I'm not, actually I'm rather offended.
Seems like no matter what I say I'm done for. Tell the truth about my equity and I get called a crass bragger. Try to explain my answer ..... you then say you feel disappointed for me.
I'm not crass .... I think I must be abit dim though 'cos I don't understand what I've done to deserve such an onslaught.
Why should people have to leave the country to achieve nowhere near the same
We don't HAVE to leave the country. Our move to NZ isn't based around how much money we can make out of the operation - but there again - I don't understand if this is what you're trying to say.
There's dozens of reason why we're moving, I think the main one is the fact that hubby is a Kiwi and he wants to go home.
[/quote]Doing missionary work in the home counties for a number of years people are using the same phrases either side of the north/south divide parhaps you have put more thought into what you are doing than they have[quote]
Again .... not sure whether this is a dig (I think it is) .... we've put months (if not years) of thought into our move to NZ but our thoughts haven't all been about our financial gain due to equity.
It's early in the morning, certainly not the best time of day for my brain to be put into gear :laugh I'm sincerely sorry if you have tarred me with a crass brush. Kind of feel like I've been slapped around the face - thanks for that. The invitation to join us for a 'social' on the 21st still stands, unless of course you don't want to spend any free time with such a low life as me :(
By the way ........ A or B ????
Diny
I'm not too sure I understand your reply. I think you're calling me crass. Well thanks. I can asure you I'm not, actually I'm rather offended.
Seems like no matter what I say I'm done for. Tell the truth about my equity and I get called a crass bragger. Try to explain my answer ..... you then say you feel disappointed for me.
I'm not crass .... I think I must be abit dim though 'cos I don't understand what I've done to deserve such an onslaught.
Why should people have to leave the country to achieve nowhere near the same
We don't HAVE to leave the country. Our move to NZ isn't based around how much money we can make out of the operation - but there again - I don't understand if this is what you're trying to say.
There's dozens of reason why we're moving, I think the main one is the fact that hubby is a Kiwi and he wants to go home.
[/quote]Doing missionary work in the home counties for a number of years people are using the same phrases either side of the north/south divide parhaps you have put more thought into what you are doing than they have[quote]
Again .... not sure whether this is a dig (I think it is) .... we've put months (if not years) of thought into our move to NZ but our thoughts haven't all been about our financial gain due to equity.
It's early in the morning, certainly not the best time of day for my brain to be put into gear :laugh I'm sincerely sorry if you have tarred me with a crass brush. Kind of feel like I've been slapped around the face - thanks for that. The invitation to join us for a 'social' on the 21st still stands, unless of course you don't want to spend any free time with such a low life as me :(
By the way ........ A or B ????
Diny
lidax
9th May 2005, 07:12 PM
Dear Frances
I am grateful to you for sharing some of your story. :nice1.... I don't take anything the wrong way.......
We have found people, as our circumstances have appeared to improve (like you through hard work/determination without whingeing), have stopped speaking to us, and others in these forums have said the same reaction has happened. Some people look at us, and think it's easy (moving areas...retraining...moving jobs), until they try to do the same....
I am judged all the time, no one knows who I am, .....thank you for making me realise we are not alone in the choices we made.
Good luck
Fraser
I am grateful to you for sharing some of your story. :nice1.... I don't take anything the wrong way.......
We have found people, as our circumstances have appeared to improve (like you through hard work/determination without whingeing), have stopped speaking to us, and others in these forums have said the same reaction has happened. Some people look at us, and think it's easy (moving areas...retraining...moving jobs), until they try to do the same....
I am judged all the time, no one knows who I am, .....thank you for making me realise we are not alone in the choices we made.
Good luck
Fraser
jo b
9th May 2005, 08:10 PM
Fraser,
I think you owe Diny an apology.
She is neither crass nor a bragger.
All people have choices in life and dependant on those choices often depicts their financial outcome/gain.
How can you call someone crass for going to NZ with equity????
Most on this forum have researched the move for years, I have researched for over 6 years. If we have gone 6 years ago we would not be taking as much equity. I cannot control the property booms nor can you control the busts. As for bragging I repeat for lack of me being heard WE ARE ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED.
People who didn't have equity have answered, I do not see them any different to me, one of my reasons for going to NZ isn't a hierarchial society where people look down on the have nots.
I come from a very working class backgroun were my parents now are both retired and live off a meagre pension. They have looked at going to NZ to release some equity in their property and have some cash but after a visit said that they are too old to adapt to NZ culture.
Fraser I really think your sweeping generisations of people on this forum are way off mark.
Jo
I think you owe Diny an apology.
She is neither crass nor a bragger.
All people have choices in life and dependant on those choices often depicts their financial outcome/gain.
How can you call someone crass for going to NZ with equity????
Most on this forum have researched the move for years, I have researched for over 6 years. If we have gone 6 years ago we would not be taking as much equity. I cannot control the property booms nor can you control the busts. As for bragging I repeat for lack of me being heard WE ARE ANSWERING A QUESTION ASKED.
People who didn't have equity have answered, I do not see them any different to me, one of my reasons for going to NZ isn't a hierarchial society where people look down on the have nots.
I come from a very working class backgroun were my parents now are both retired and live off a meagre pension. They have looked at going to NZ to release some equity in their property and have some cash but after a visit said that they are too old to adapt to NZ culture.
Fraser I really think your sweeping generisations of people on this forum are way off mark.
Jo
Carol
9th May 2005, 08:49 PM
one of my reasons for going to NZ isn't a hierarchial society where people look down on the have nots.
This is SO true.
I've never seen it work quite as well as it does here - no idea why but that's part of the mystery of the place.
I come from a very working class backgroun were my parents now are both retired and live off a meagre pension. They have looked at going to NZ to release some equity in their property and have some cash but after a visit said that they are too old to adapt to NZ culture.
Bugger! I was looking forward to a pint or two with your mum and dad Jo!
:nice1 :cheers
Jo
This is SO true.
I've never seen it work quite as well as it does here - no idea why but that's part of the mystery of the place.
I come from a very working class backgroun were my parents now are both retired and live off a meagre pension. They have looked at going to NZ to release some equity in their property and have some cash but after a visit said that they are too old to adapt to NZ culture.
Bugger! I was looking forward to a pint or two with your mum and dad Jo!
:nice1 :cheers
Jo
lidax
9th May 2005, 09:06 PM
Dear Diny, Dear Jo b
[quote]"Don't expect anyone to do anything different just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush."
The 'apology' so to speak is in here,...."you sounded the same".....if you wish to take it another way that's up to you...
as you said "It's early in the morning, certainly not the best time of day for my brain to be put into gear", Perhaps a few coffees are needed, yes perhaps, you didn't understand my reply...
[quote]"How can you call someone crass for going to NZ with equity????"
Again, misinterpreted....
Yes, some of your answers are in response to the original question. But why does the poll only finish at the $325 level?
I didn't expect some to 'go off the deep end'. I'm trying to present a balanced view....and perhaps looking at the 'big picture' :eek ...We are all from a variety of backgrounds, financial circumstances.... Britain is a very class riden, materialistic place...sorry, if you think that is a sweeping generalisation too......
Best of luck to you all,
Talk of money is always a 'vulgar' subject. I'd rather play my guitar... ;)
regards
Fraser
[quote]"Don't expect anyone to do anything different just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush."
The 'apology' so to speak is in here,...."you sounded the same".....if you wish to take it another way that's up to you...
as you said "It's early in the morning, certainly not the best time of day for my brain to be put into gear", Perhaps a few coffees are needed, yes perhaps, you didn't understand my reply...
[quote]"How can you call someone crass for going to NZ with equity????"
Again, misinterpreted....
Yes, some of your answers are in response to the original question. But why does the poll only finish at the $325 level?
I didn't expect some to 'go off the deep end'. I'm trying to present a balanced view....and perhaps looking at the 'big picture' :eek ...We are all from a variety of backgrounds, financial circumstances.... Britain is a very class riden, materialistic place...sorry, if you think that is a sweeping generalisation too......
Best of luck to you all,
Talk of money is always a 'vulgar' subject. I'd rather play my guitar... ;)
regards
Fraser
Diny
9th May 2005, 09:21 PM
I didn't expect some to 'go off the deep end'
I didn't expect to need to :?
It's later in the day now and I still don't quite understand what you're getting at or why you decided to launch such an attack. Coffee wouldn't help either .... I don't drink it. Strictly a sparkling mineral water kind of gal me ;)
Still can't decide whether you're touchy about the fact that I have more equity than you or whether you're looking down on me like some kind of gutter snipe because you have alot more than me :? or maybe people who give honest answers to legitimate questions are something completely alien to you.
Either way you you make no effort to hide your obvious feelings towards me, I apologise for anything I may have said to provoke such a reponse. You have me completely baffled.
And please .......... go on ..... just for the hell of it ........
Give us an A or B answer.
Diny
I didn't expect to need to :?
It's later in the day now and I still don't quite understand what you're getting at or why you decided to launch such an attack. Coffee wouldn't help either .... I don't drink it. Strictly a sparkling mineral water kind of gal me ;)
Still can't decide whether you're touchy about the fact that I have more equity than you or whether you're looking down on me like some kind of gutter snipe because you have alot more than me :? or maybe people who give honest answers to legitimate questions are something completely alien to you.
Either way you you make no effort to hide your obvious feelings towards me, I apologise for anything I may have said to provoke such a reponse. You have me completely baffled.
And please .......... go on ..... just for the hell of it ........
Give us an A or B answer.
Diny
lidax
9th May 2005, 09:56 PM
Hi Diny,
This isn't about you personally, since I do not know you. :roll:
If you look back you will see that my comments are about the 'big picture'. That is, the sixties generation who have cashed it all in ....the same set of economics will not happen again.
I understand that you have a Kiwi hubby, but I was discussing Brit economic trends... In answer to your question....I have seen it from both sides, so A and B.
[quote]"Britain is a very class riden, materialistic place...sorry, if you think that is a sweeping generalisation too......" for example, in Britain people would tell you how much they paid for a glass of sparkling water, in other less materialistic countries, perhaps they would talk about how great it tastes...
Sorry, it my bonny reparte goes over some heads... :angel , I'm all for honesty.....really....
regards
Fraser
This isn't about you personally, since I do not know you. :roll:
If you look back you will see that my comments are about the 'big picture'. That is, the sixties generation who have cashed it all in ....the same set of economics will not happen again.
I understand that you have a Kiwi hubby, but I was discussing Brit economic trends... In answer to your question....I have seen it from both sides, so A and B.
[quote]"Britain is a very class riden, materialistic place...sorry, if you think that is a sweeping generalisation too......" for example, in Britain people would tell you how much they paid for a glass of sparkling water, in other less materialistic countries, perhaps they would talk about how great it tastes...
Sorry, it my bonny reparte goes over some heads... :angel , I'm all for honesty.....really....
regards
Fraser
jo b
9th May 2005, 10:58 PM
I come from a very working class backgroun were my parents now are both retired and live off a meagre pension. They have looked at going to NZ to release some equity in their property and have some cash but after a visit said that they are too old to adapt to NZ culture.
******! I was looking forward to a pint or two with your mum and dad Jo!
:nice1 :cheers
Jo[/quote][/quote]
Carol,
I know but they'll come for visits so we can have a few beers with them then. i am glad you enjoyed their company. My mum bought an electronic hearing aid in Singapore. The best thing she ever did. She only had a total of 45% hearing in one ear and was stone deaf in the other. She now has a new lease of life as she is not as embarrassed and can actually hear the conversations people are having. Yes the NHS turned her down for an electronic hearing aid :no . In fact they didn't even test her hearing :no
Anyway my parents were 60's genreationand I don't think they have creamed off society certainly not got any more than a couple of hundred quid in the bank and at that they are flush.
Take care
Jo
******! I was looking forward to a pint or two with your mum and dad Jo!
:nice1 :cheers
Jo[/quote][/quote]
Carol,
I know but they'll come for visits so we can have a few beers with them then. i am glad you enjoyed their company. My mum bought an electronic hearing aid in Singapore. The best thing she ever did. She only had a total of 45% hearing in one ear and was stone deaf in the other. She now has a new lease of life as she is not as embarrassed and can actually hear the conversations people are having. Yes the NHS turned her down for an electronic hearing aid :no . In fact they didn't even test her hearing :no
Anyway my parents were 60's genreationand I don't think they have creamed off society certainly not got any more than a couple of hundred quid in the bank and at that they are flush.
Take care
Jo
lidax
9th May 2005, 11:33 PM
Hi all
I welcome all honest questions and answers...but I do think some take this all too seriously, and way too personally...
The sixties generation, expected to get a foothold on the property ladder, expected full employment, expected a job for life, expected good NHS service, expected some kind of pension payout, etc....All I am merely observing :roll: that these things do not hold any more in the Britain of today....
Going to go play more guitar now :exit
regards
Fraser
I welcome all honest questions and answers...but I do think some take this all too seriously, and way too personally...
The sixties generation, expected to get a foothold on the property ladder, expected full employment, expected a job for life, expected good NHS service, expected some kind of pension payout, etc....All I am merely observing :roll: that these things do not hold any more in the Britain of today....
Going to go play more guitar now :exit
regards
Fraser
jo b
9th May 2005, 11:40 PM
Thing is though A good NHS service is what they were told they would get when the NHS was brought in and thats what they their stamps for.
Hence why we are all getting out. We don't mind paying for what we get but many people see taxation as something that happens rather than thinking it should be used as it is promised.
As yet you have made another sweeping generalisation of the 60's generation.
My father never had a job for life he hitched to work in the 60's and early 70's and lost many jobs as he couldn't afford transport. he had a young family and worked his but off all over the country while we were kids as a crane driver.
And why not have expectations if you don't have goals we'd all be the Vicky Polards of the world wouldn't we. Or is that another sweeping generalisation.
And as for personally yes I do take it personal when you call people crass!!!
Would you say that to my face.
Jo
Hence why we are all getting out. We don't mind paying for what we get but many people see taxation as something that happens rather than thinking it should be used as it is promised.
As yet you have made another sweeping generalisation of the 60's generation.
My father never had a job for life he hitched to work in the 60's and early 70's and lost many jobs as he couldn't afford transport. he had a young family and worked his but off all over the country while we were kids as a crane driver.
And why not have expectations if you don't have goals we'd all be the Vicky Polards of the world wouldn't we. Or is that another sweeping generalisation.
And as for personally yes I do take it personal when you call people crass!!!
Would you say that to my face.
Jo
baboonworld
9th May 2005, 11:45 PM
Sorry about this guys!!! Didnt mean to cause an arguement!!
The poll stopped at $325 cause i thought that was enough options - didnt want loads - and also thought the question was personal enough to start with.
Thanks to everyone who answered - the stats clearly show that most will have enough to buy a house mortgage free and if the exchange rates allow - perhaps we might even have a NZ millionaire out there!!!
I dont think discussing money in this type of way is bragging! You have all worked very hard for whatever you have (in £££ or $$$!!!)
Diny - B defo!! I'd even be asking for more if they offered asking price so easily!!!
The poll stopped at $325 cause i thought that was enough options - didnt want loads - and also thought the question was personal enough to start with.
Thanks to everyone who answered - the stats clearly show that most will have enough to buy a house mortgage free and if the exchange rates allow - perhaps we might even have a NZ millionaire out there!!!
I dont think discussing money in this type of way is bragging! You have all worked very hard for whatever you have (in £££ or $$$!!!)
Diny - B defo!! I'd even be asking for more if they offered asking price so easily!!!
lidax
9th May 2005, 11:53 PM
Hi all,
again some take this tooooooo personally....
I'm not citing one example...merely reiterating McMillans sixties quote "you've never had it so good"....
Again,....tooooooo touchy about the word crass :eek . I used this word in the original context of people I have worked with.
If one does not consider themselves in their league (ie money orientated above all else, keeping up with the Jones's) then you should not be offended ;) .......
Why does the poll stop at $325???
regards
Fraser
again some take this tooooooo personally....
I'm not citing one example...merely reiterating McMillans sixties quote "you've never had it so good"....
Again,....tooooooo touchy about the word crass :eek . I used this word in the original context of people I have worked with.
If one does not consider themselves in their league (ie money orientated above all else, keeping up with the Jones's) then you should not be offended ;) .......
Why does the poll stop at $325???
regards
Fraser
lidax
10th May 2005, 12:00 AM
Hi BaboonWorld,
I see your poll has caused some lively discussion.... some have taken it too personally....
As for the reliability of the stats from the poll,.....really....perhaps your sample is toooooo small...only 34 votes....wonder what the results would be like if you have a few hundred replies, and upped the top limit????? :roll:
Mmmmmm.....interesting...
regards
Fraser
I see your poll has caused some lively discussion.... some have taken it too personally....
As for the reliability of the stats from the poll,.....really....perhaps your sample is toooooo small...only 34 votes....wonder what the results would be like if you have a few hundred replies, and upped the top limit????? :roll:
Mmmmmm.....interesting...
regards
Fraser
Diny
10th May 2005, 01:59 AM
I can see this going round and round in circles.
Maybe some of us are taking it abit too personally but when comments are made such as ......
just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush.
.... it's kind of difficult NOT to take it personally. If you're going to feel that you are justified in making comments like this, then you need to understand that some of us will feel justified in 'standing up for ourselves'.
I'm sure you didn't intentionally set out to offend me or anybody else, but your 'bull in a china shop' approach, with little regard for others feelings has caused abit of a stir.
Just from one forumite to another ....... maybe a more tactful, less abrasive approach is called for in the future? :? It's not necesarilly WHAT you say ..... it's the WAY you say it that makes all the difference.
Diny
Maybe some of us are taking it abit too personally but when comments are made such as ......
just hope people would be less crass than ones I work with. Unfortunately you sounded the same so I tarred everyone with the same brush.
.... it's kind of difficult NOT to take it personally. If you're going to feel that you are justified in making comments like this, then you need to understand that some of us will feel justified in 'standing up for ourselves'.
I'm sure you didn't intentionally set out to offend me or anybody else, but your 'bull in a china shop' approach, with little regard for others feelings has caused abit of a stir.
Just from one forumite to another ....... maybe a more tactful, less abrasive approach is called for in the future? :? It's not necesarilly WHAT you say ..... it's the WAY you say it that makes all the difference.
Diny
lidax
10th May 2005, 06:39 AM
Whatever......perhaps this thread could be construed as offensive from the outset?
See you later
See you later
baboonworld
10th May 2005, 08:29 AM
Well - should I take that personally then???
Anon replies would have been acceptable - people giving more info are just being upfront and honest - those who are offended - sorry but STOP READING THIS THREAD THEN!!!
Anon replies would have been acceptable - people giving more info are just being upfront and honest - those who are offended - sorry but STOP READING THIS THREAD THEN!!!
sweetpea
10th May 2005, 01:06 PM
As someone who answered <25K, I don't think Diny or anyone else was bragging--just answering the question in a matter-of-fact way.
I mean, the San Francisco Bay Area has two very separate groups of people: people who bought early and will make a fortune when they sell, and those who rented for years and/or arrived in the city too late in the real estate boom to be able to afford anything more than an outhouse in an open-air drug market. I have friends in both camps. Most home owners here are aware that they were lucky more than anything, which is fine. I'm happy for them.
I mean, the San Francisco Bay Area has two very separate groups of people: people who bought early and will make a fortune when they sell, and those who rented for years and/or arrived in the city too late in the real estate boom to be able to afford anything more than an outhouse in an open-air drug market. I have friends in both camps. Most home owners here are aware that they were lucky more than anything, which is fine. I'm happy for them.
Wannaway
10th May 2005, 01:11 PM
I have just picked up this thread and am completely baffled by some of the comments. I struggle to actually see what point some people are trying to make.
Talking about money and finances is not "vulgar or crass", for goodness sake that is an attitude out of the Victorian ages. Bragging about how much money you have compared to others, or displaying your wealth as often and ostentatiously as possible is crass however. The vast majority of the people on this forum share their thoughts and information for genuine reasons, not to create some hierarchy. I think some people should give careful consideration as to how they phrase things before posting, personally I have found some of the comments made on this thread really quite offensive in tone.
I don't disagree that the UK has become very materialistic. Neither my wife or I could be bothered to play the "must have the latest mobile phone/car/TV etc" game, the upshot being we had very little debt and were therefore able to realise a reasonable amount of equity when selling up. I don't feel the need to justify my financial situation to anyone, but it is clear from this thread that most people are sharing information genuinely, honestly and openly and I hope negative comments and jibes about "crassness" etc do not stop people from continuing to post genuine, honest and open replies.
Talking about money and finances is not "vulgar or crass", for goodness sake that is an attitude out of the Victorian ages. Bragging about how much money you have compared to others, or displaying your wealth as often and ostentatiously as possible is crass however. The vast majority of the people on this forum share their thoughts and information for genuine reasons, not to create some hierarchy. I think some people should give careful consideration as to how they phrase things before posting, personally I have found some of the comments made on this thread really quite offensive in tone.
I don't disagree that the UK has become very materialistic. Neither my wife or I could be bothered to play the "must have the latest mobile phone/car/TV etc" game, the upshot being we had very little debt and were therefore able to realise a reasonable amount of equity when selling up. I don't feel the need to justify my financial situation to anyone, but it is clear from this thread that most people are sharing information genuinely, honestly and openly and I hope negative comments and jibes about "crassness" etc do not stop people from continuing to post genuine, honest and open replies.
veronica
10th May 2005, 06:26 PM
I don't see that anyone needed to go into details, I thought the idea was just to tick the relevant box and the poll was done!!
baboonworld
10th May 2005, 08:01 PM
Shall we not reply to any threads then?
Or just the ones with personal info?
This is an open forum - do not take away peoples right to have their say - all comments are appreciated by most (except offensive ones).
Or just the ones with personal info?
This is an open forum - do not take away peoples right to have their say - all comments are appreciated by most (except offensive ones).
veronica
10th May 2005, 08:36 PM
but surely a poll is slightly different to a normal thread. its more of a statistics exercise. And maybe I am a bit oldfashioned in this regard but I don't feel the need or inclination to discuss our private money matters on an open forum that anyone can read. I respect that if others want to let the world at large know their business its up to them, my point is that they didn't HAVE to do that to fulfil the point of this Poll.
Mildred
10th May 2005, 08:50 PM
I don't see what all the fuss is all about. As with the congratulation posts, we don't have to read them. No one has been made to say what their properties are worth. The only reason I went into personal details about my property value was because I wanted to highlight that you don't have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth to do well. I was going to add be financially better off, but in fact we aren't. Our finances are pretty dire at the moment :?
Personally speaking I wish I had seen this post 6 months ago. Having read all the negative posts about people not being able to survive in NZ on the wages, on more than one occasion we as a family had decided we definitely wouldn't go based on the number of people returning back to the UK broke. I now realise that based on the equity in our property that we could survive in NZ quite comfortably.
Personally speaking I wish I had seen this post 6 months ago. Having read all the negative posts about people not being able to survive in NZ on the wages, on more than one occasion we as a family had decided we definitely wouldn't go based on the number of people returning back to the UK broke. I now realise that based on the equity in our property that we could survive in NZ quite comfortably.
kiwidollie
10th May 2005, 08:52 PM
Crikey - seems more like BritishExpats forum than the one I know and love. ;)
I don't want to add fuel to any fire - but would just like to say that Diny as usual has submitted a helpful and honest post and, I feel has been unjustly slated for it.
I didn't take her post, or anybody else's for that matter to be bragging or crass. People should feel free to discuss these matters. They are helpful and interesting in my opinion.
Veronica you seem angry. Is it because people will be making the move to NZ with more money than you were able to bring? Not having a go at you - that's just how you are coming across.
:uhoh :exit
I don't want to add fuel to any fire - but would just like to say that Diny as usual has submitted a helpful and honest post and, I feel has been unjustly slated for it.
I didn't take her post, or anybody else's for that matter to be bragging or crass. People should feel free to discuss these matters. They are helpful and interesting in my opinion.
Veronica you seem angry. Is it because people will be making the move to NZ with more money than you were able to bring? Not having a go at you - that's just how you are coming across.
:uhoh :exit
veronica
10th May 2005, 10:17 PM
not at all angry, just puzzled that anybody elses financial details are of interest to others, or that other people get steamed up about the amounts of equity people are realising and bringing across. As I said I just feel its a strange thing to discuss personal finances on an open forum where anyone who happens to log in can read them.
Having said that I would find the anonymous details of the poll of interest as a statistic.
Having said that I would find the anonymous details of the poll of interest as a statistic.
Simon & Emily
11th May 2005, 06:51 AM
not at all angry, just puzzled that anybody elses financial details are of interest to others, or that other people get steamed up about the amounts of equity people are realising and bringing across.
Veronica, you sound like a true classless kiwi. (i hope that's not offending; I just mean that you sound like you accept everyone on face value and not what expensive clothes / car/ house / holidays they can impress with)
So many people in this country are impressed by materialist things that they can't see beyond them. What's important in life is not what you can leave out for all the neighbours to see. (No offence meant to anyone else either - I know everyone here just wants to share as much info about 'the move' as possible.
Emily
Veronica, you sound like a true classless kiwi. (i hope that's not offending; I just mean that you sound like you accept everyone on face value and not what expensive clothes / car/ house / holidays they can impress with)
So many people in this country are impressed by materialist things that they can't see beyond them. What's important in life is not what you can leave out for all the neighbours to see. (No offence meant to anyone else either - I know everyone here just wants to share as much info about 'the move' as possible.
Emily
foolsgold99
11th May 2005, 09:11 AM
classless kiwi ??
Don't think you've been to Auckland :laugh
In my 2 weeks here, I must have heard a dozen people use the phrase "lower socio-economic" to describe, areas or people. Everyone used the exact same term, which I find really strange, must be a buzz word over here.
Sounds like a posh way of saying working class to my ears.
I tend to think it's more a Jafa saying than a true Kiwi one.
Don't think you've been to Auckland :laugh
In my 2 weeks here, I must have heard a dozen people use the phrase "lower socio-economic" to describe, areas or people. Everyone used the exact same term, which I find really strange, must be a buzz word over here.
Sounds like a posh way of saying working class to my ears.
I tend to think it's more a Jafa saying than a true Kiwi one.
veronica
11th May 2005, 09:34 AM
the term lower socioeconomic is often used in reference to those who don't work, although there are people who work and are still in the same economic grouping.
There are always going to be distinctions between those who have and those who don't.
There are always going to be distinctions between those who have and those who don't.
Diny
11th May 2005, 09:55 AM
I'm a firm believer that wherever there are people there is a class system.
It can go under the guise of many different titles, it can be extreme or slight, it can be a proud part of a countries culture or it can be frowned upon, but class exists everywhere.
It is also my experience that class ... or give it any title you wish ..... is alive and kicking in NZ. It's not so 'in your face' as some other countries - UK included - but it's there.
Surely if NZ was a classless society, Kiwi's would have no use for the phrase 'socio economic' :?
Anyway ... that's just my observation. Being part of a dyed in the wool Kiwi family for the past 17 years I've seen plenty of evidence of a class system. Not saying it's good, not saying it's bad - just saying it's there.
Diny
It can go under the guise of many different titles, it can be extreme or slight, it can be a proud part of a countries culture or it can be frowned upon, but class exists everywhere.
It is also my experience that class ... or give it any title you wish ..... is alive and kicking in NZ. It's not so 'in your face' as some other countries - UK included - but it's there.
Surely if NZ was a classless society, Kiwi's would have no use for the phrase 'socio economic' :?
Anyway ... that's just my observation. Being part of a dyed in the wool Kiwi family for the past 17 years I've seen plenty of evidence of a class system. Not saying it's good, not saying it's bad - just saying it's there.
Diny
Carol
11th May 2005, 03:16 PM
It is also my experience that class ... or give it any title you wish ..... is alive and kicking in NZ. Diny
My experience too.
When we first arrived I was introduced to a "ladies circle" by my landlady because she was interested in my cross stitich on her living room wall.
I didn't last long...... ;)
My experience too.
When we first arrived I was introduced to a "ladies circle" by my landlady because she was interested in my cross stitich on her living room wall.
I didn't last long...... ;)
Moorf
11th May 2005, 05:56 PM
;) I was gonna nip and and comment on the fact that people thought this was a classless society earlier in the thread but couldn't be bothered as I figured everyone had this ideal that it was and so it would therefore be classed a negative comment!
I came thinking it was classless and was sooo wrong. Albeit locals have said it's evolved over the last decade or so, but there is defintely a class system alive and well in Godzone. ;)
I came thinking it was classless and was sooo wrong. Albeit locals have said it's evolved over the last decade or so, but there is defintely a class system alive and well in Godzone. ;)
veronica
11th May 2005, 06:27 PM
OK this one needs thinking about, it could be construed as offensive, its not meant to be as its just an observation.
One of the things that I can't help noticing is that people seem to be admiring the notion that NZ is a classless society.........BUT........I can't help noticing that a lot of these same people are asking where the 'good' areas are and are heading for places like Sumner etc in Chch and the same type of suburbs around Auckland and are avoiding the 'lower socio-economic' areas. Does this mean that the idea of class is ok as long as its not us at the bottom. Does the GB£/property thing in effect mean a way for people to move here to a better class of area thus creating their own class system.
I have to say that where ever people live while some people have more than others there is always going to be a hierachy and to be honest its not something that worries me. Since we've been here Pete and I have worked 7 days a week most weeks and if that makes me working class I'm proud of it.
One of the things that I can't help noticing is that people seem to be admiring the notion that NZ is a classless society.........BUT........I can't help noticing that a lot of these same people are asking where the 'good' areas are and are heading for places like Sumner etc in Chch and the same type of suburbs around Auckland and are avoiding the 'lower socio-economic' areas. Does this mean that the idea of class is ok as long as its not us at the bottom. Does the GB£/property thing in effect mean a way for people to move here to a better class of area thus creating their own class system.
I have to say that where ever people live while some people have more than others there is always going to be a hierachy and to be honest its not something that worries me. Since we've been here Pete and I have worked 7 days a week most weeks and if that makes me working class I'm proud of it.
Mildred
11th May 2005, 06:30 PM
So many people in this country are impressed by materialist things that they can't see beyond them. What's important in life is not what you can leave out for all the neighbours to see.
Well certainly doesn't apply to this household. My children have never been on a plane, and the last time they had a holiday was 4 years ago when we spent 3 nights on the Isle of Wight on the £9.99 Sun offer. In fact that has been the longest we've been away since we got married. Most of my clothes are from the charity shop and we must have shares in Quality Seconds. Any spare money left over each month has gone directly into doing the house up. Did get awarded some compensation from a medical negligence case which nearly wrecked my life. Was planning on going on a big holiday with this, but it has gradually dwindled to nothing in order to pay bills etc.
What gets me is I have neighbours who have had foreign holidays galore,
and spend like its going out of fashion. Neither of them work and they have their rent paid for by the benefits people and have so much disposable income. Every day a courier van arrives to deliver another parcel from the catalogue people.
Sorry I've diversed a bit here but just wanted to add that we aren't all materialistic or flaunt everything in front of the neighbours.
Well certainly doesn't apply to this household. My children have never been on a plane, and the last time they had a holiday was 4 years ago when we spent 3 nights on the Isle of Wight on the £9.99 Sun offer. In fact that has been the longest we've been away since we got married. Most of my clothes are from the charity shop and we must have shares in Quality Seconds. Any spare money left over each month has gone directly into doing the house up. Did get awarded some compensation from a medical negligence case which nearly wrecked my life. Was planning on going on a big holiday with this, but it has gradually dwindled to nothing in order to pay bills etc.
What gets me is I have neighbours who have had foreign holidays galore,
and spend like its going out of fashion. Neither of them work and they have their rent paid for by the benefits people and have so much disposable income. Every day a courier van arrives to deliver another parcel from the catalogue people.
Sorry I've diversed a bit here but just wanted to add that we aren't all materialistic or flaunt everything in front of the neighbours.
Mildred
11th May 2005, 06:33 PM
can't help noticing that a lot of these same people are asking where the 'good' areas are and are heading for places like Sumner etc in Chch
Moorf, did you realise you were guilty of this. Didn't have you down as a snob. Only joking of course :roll:
Moorf, did you realise you were guilty of this. Didn't have you down as a snob. Only joking of course :roll:
Carol
11th May 2005, 06:37 PM
deleted
Moorf
11th May 2005, 07:12 PM
Moorf, did you realise you were guilty of this. Didn't have you down as a snob. Only joking of course
You're probably right though, I don't mind admitting it - I am a bit of snob in some respects. I'm not a snob when it comes down to people but if you asked me my preferences on other superficial stuff then I guess I do have my standards - doesn't everyone? :oops: So much so that when we found a lovely house in North New Brighton I needed SERIOUS convincing that it was a "nice" area ... I'd heard all the gossip about its bad points and yes, its not the most desirable area in Chch. Girls at work said I was being a snob - I was!!!!
Since being here in Brighton we've met our lovely neighbours up and down the street (with the exception of Yeah But No But Waaaaayne and Shaz next door who are renting and whose LOUD and blue arguements keep me entertained whilst I wait for Corrie to catch up!) :laugh and my thoughts of the area have totally changed. Sure, we'd love to live back in Sumner but we can't afford it and we're not going to start down the "mortgaged to the hilt" route because that's not why we came here. We compromised - something that we've learned to do alot since we came here.
I've even jacked in my $30/hr marketing consultant position, sure it would have meant we'd have "loadsa money" BUT the idea was we'd have a relatively stress-free life here where we could concentrate on other things - it took alot of soul-searching and I felt so "guilty" for not wanting to work my butt off for more money, but it's the best decision I've made and I still have my lovely little job at the surf shop and, here's the best bit... I'M HAPPY!!
I am a bit of an advocate of Sumner (ok, ok a HUGE advocate of Sumner!) but not for reasons of snobbery or class - just the other day I was bemoaning the sometimes obvious snobbery that you could attribute to Sumner with my Sumner customers (!!) - but it's not al about that - its just a lovely location with lovely views a lovely beach and lovely people. It's basically just.. err.. lovely!! (word of the day.. ) It was a seriously lovely day today too ;) :laugh It just happens that you need to have a bit of a wad to buy there! It wasn't always that way - locals will tell you that it used to be very different in days gone by and no-one wanted to live there as it was too far out!
Hmmm I just seemed to have joined the "must justify myself" brigade :oops: and this was almost one of those "shall I or shan't I" posts but what the heck... I've learnt alot about myself and what I want from life since I've been here, and many of my pre-conceptions have been blasted into outer space - but we still love it here :nice1
You're probably right though, I don't mind admitting it - I am a bit of snob in some respects. I'm not a snob when it comes down to people but if you asked me my preferences on other superficial stuff then I guess I do have my standards - doesn't everyone? :oops: So much so that when we found a lovely house in North New Brighton I needed SERIOUS convincing that it was a "nice" area ... I'd heard all the gossip about its bad points and yes, its not the most desirable area in Chch. Girls at work said I was being a snob - I was!!!!
Since being here in Brighton we've met our lovely neighbours up and down the street (with the exception of Yeah But No But Waaaaayne and Shaz next door who are renting and whose LOUD and blue arguements keep me entertained whilst I wait for Corrie to catch up!) :laugh and my thoughts of the area have totally changed. Sure, we'd love to live back in Sumner but we can't afford it and we're not going to start down the "mortgaged to the hilt" route because that's not why we came here. We compromised - something that we've learned to do alot since we came here.
I've even jacked in my $30/hr marketing consultant position, sure it would have meant we'd have "loadsa money" BUT the idea was we'd have a relatively stress-free life here where we could concentrate on other things - it took alot of soul-searching and I felt so "guilty" for not wanting to work my butt off for more money, but it's the best decision I've made and I still have my lovely little job at the surf shop and, here's the best bit... I'M HAPPY!!
I am a bit of an advocate of Sumner (ok, ok a HUGE advocate of Sumner!) but not for reasons of snobbery or class - just the other day I was bemoaning the sometimes obvious snobbery that you could attribute to Sumner with my Sumner customers (!!) - but it's not al about that - its just a lovely location with lovely views a lovely beach and lovely people. It's basically just.. err.. lovely!! (word of the day.. ) It was a seriously lovely day today too ;) :laugh It just happens that you need to have a bit of a wad to buy there! It wasn't always that way - locals will tell you that it used to be very different in days gone by and no-one wanted to live there as it was too far out!
Hmmm I just seemed to have joined the "must justify myself" brigade :oops: and this was almost one of those "shall I or shan't I" posts but what the heck... I've learnt alot about myself and what I want from life since I've been here, and many of my pre-conceptions have been blasted into outer space - but we still love it here :nice1
Mildred
11th May 2005, 07:22 PM
Moorf
What a LOVELY post :clap
My husband always says you work to live not live to work. Glad you are so happy. Know what you mean about the neighbours though :?
What a LOVELY post :clap
My husband always says you work to live not live to work. Glad you are so happy. Know what you mean about the neighbours though :?
Moorf
11th May 2005, 07:39 PM
My husband always says you work to live not live to work.
Ahhhh, that's the phrase I was looking for :nice1
Ahhhh, that's the phrase I was looking for :nice1
Diny
11th May 2005, 07:58 PM
Well said Moorf, a great post.
I just know that this is going to come out wrong but I'll say it anyway.
Sounds like your move to NZ have been a great 'levelling' process for you. It's shown what's important and what isn't.
I hope that doesn't sound too patronising or even insulting, I simply don't mean it that way. I'm not saying it's brought you down a peg or too and I'm not saying it's brought you up either ..... what I'm really saying is that you've had to learn to hit a comprimise (i.e. where you live, where you work etc) and you've found happiness in the process.
This is a good lesson for all of us. There's nothing wrong in wanting nice things, there's nothing wrong in wanting a nice house, nice car nice anything, but having the ability to realise that there's happiness to be found in areas that (in our former lives) we may not even have considered is, I would imagine, quite enlightening.
Does that make sense? Please don't take offence .... what I'm trying to say in my 'ham fisted' way is .... good on you.
Diny
I just know that this is going to come out wrong but I'll say it anyway.
Sounds like your move to NZ have been a great 'levelling' process for you. It's shown what's important and what isn't.
I hope that doesn't sound too patronising or even insulting, I simply don't mean it that way. I'm not saying it's brought you down a peg or too and I'm not saying it's brought you up either ..... what I'm really saying is that you've had to learn to hit a comprimise (i.e. where you live, where you work etc) and you've found happiness in the process.
This is a good lesson for all of us. There's nothing wrong in wanting nice things, there's nothing wrong in wanting a nice house, nice car nice anything, but having the ability to realise that there's happiness to be found in areas that (in our former lives) we may not even have considered is, I would imagine, quite enlightening.
Does that make sense? Please don't take offence .... what I'm trying to say in my 'ham fisted' way is .... good on you.
Diny
Moorf
11th May 2005, 08:14 PM
No offence taken at all.... because you hit the nail on the head.
That is EXACTLY what my new life here has done for me. Been a long road but, finally, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train ready to hit me head on :laugh
That is EXACTLY what my new life here has done for me. Been a long road but, finally, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train ready to hit me head on :laugh
jo b
11th May 2005, 08:23 PM
I wasn't going to add to this but I will.
Having goals and achieving them is very different to being materialisic.
e.g. certain people in the UK are now declaring themselves bankrupt as they are up to the hilt in debt, because of the keep up with the jonses mentallity and the must have it now attitude.
We have no debt (not bragging making a statement), but that is because we wait save up and buy when we can afford it.
People don't want to go back from where they started from hence 'asking for the nice areas to live'. I don't think this is a snob thing but I think there are to many factors to define what this could mean about anyone.
I think the 'classless' system we talk about in NZ is a little more level, before anyone jumps on me let me explain what I mean.
yes they are cathcing up fast but sure do hope they learn lessons from the UK before they follow the same path. I can't imagine many kiwi's going into debt to buy the next BMW or Mercedes to come out. And before people jump on me again. Yes there are always going to be pockets of these people in EVERY society.
There have been many stories of jealousy provoked disagreements in the UK, and documentaries to back it up. I remember one about 2 middle aged coupled disputing a boundary and both neighbours said 'it's because they are jealous because we have this etc. ect.' I remember this one clearly as it alarmed me somewhat. The boundary dispute could have been resolved easily.
So my question is this.
Is it a class system or people with goals and ambition wanting to better themselves?
Jo
Having goals and achieving them is very different to being materialisic.
e.g. certain people in the UK are now declaring themselves bankrupt as they are up to the hilt in debt, because of the keep up with the jonses mentallity and the must have it now attitude.
We have no debt (not bragging making a statement), but that is because we wait save up and buy when we can afford it.
People don't want to go back from where they started from hence 'asking for the nice areas to live'. I don't think this is a snob thing but I think there are to many factors to define what this could mean about anyone.
I think the 'classless' system we talk about in NZ is a little more level, before anyone jumps on me let me explain what I mean.
yes they are cathcing up fast but sure do hope they learn lessons from the UK before they follow the same path. I can't imagine many kiwi's going into debt to buy the next BMW or Mercedes to come out. And before people jump on me again. Yes there are always going to be pockets of these people in EVERY society.
There have been many stories of jealousy provoked disagreements in the UK, and documentaries to back it up. I remember one about 2 middle aged coupled disputing a boundary and both neighbours said 'it's because they are jealous because we have this etc. ect.' I remember this one clearly as it alarmed me somewhat. The boundary dispute could have been resolved easily.
So my question is this.
Is it a class system or people with goals and ambition wanting to better themselves?
Jo
Moorf
11th May 2005, 08:48 PM
My personal opinion is that there definitely is a class system. Okay, it's perhaps not as pronounced as in the UK, but it's here. Not so much of a hereditary type of class system as in the UK either (in my experience).
Yes, having goals and achieving them doesn't automatically mean being materialistic. And having goals doesn't always go hand in hand with making money. i.e. our goal isn't to make as much as we did in the UK, but to have a better life which, in fact, almost negates materialism!
Unfortunately (or perhaps, predictably), personal debt is rife in NZ. It's been on the news here and I've read several articles about more and more people being caught in the spiral of personal debt. They are human too and the "me too" mentality is alive and kicking. People are making money on their properties and are using it to buy desirable goods (cars/clothes/holidays etc).
I think they're a good few years behind the UK in this respect, but I do think it's heading that way. I too hope that they learn from the UK, but not sure how many of them would even know, or think, to compare themselves with the UK scenario. It wasn't so long ago that people in the UK weren't so materialistic as they are now.
Interesting points Jo - looking forward to hearing others' thoughts.
Moorf
Yes, having goals and achieving them doesn't automatically mean being materialistic. And having goals doesn't always go hand in hand with making money. i.e. our goal isn't to make as much as we did in the UK, but to have a better life which, in fact, almost negates materialism!
Unfortunately (or perhaps, predictably), personal debt is rife in NZ. It's been on the news here and I've read several articles about more and more people being caught in the spiral of personal debt. They are human too and the "me too" mentality is alive and kicking. People are making money on their properties and are using it to buy desirable goods (cars/clothes/holidays etc).
I think they're a good few years behind the UK in this respect, but I do think it's heading that way. I too hope that they learn from the UK, but not sure how many of them would even know, or think, to compare themselves with the UK scenario. It wasn't so long ago that people in the UK weren't so materialistic as they are now.
Interesting points Jo - looking forward to hearing others' thoughts.
Moorf
wilson182
11th May 2005, 10:01 PM
Good Post that Moorf..
We've learned those lessons too, and I dont mean before we came, I mean after!! We made lots of bold statements in the UK about how we would never get into debt again etc etc, but when it came to buying the sofa I wanted on trade me, I seriously considered (sp) borrowing the money from friends who offered to lend it to us. In the end we didnt and we ended up with the sofa (at a cheaper price) anyway.
It was a real concious decision NOT to borrow the money, as I had become so used to the I Want It Now way of thinking.
This is one of the greatest things that this move to NZ has given me.
We've learned those lessons too, and I dont mean before we came, I mean after!! We made lots of bold statements in the UK about how we would never get into debt again etc etc, but when it came to buying the sofa I wanted on trade me, I seriously considered (sp) borrowing the money from friends who offered to lend it to us. In the end we didnt and we ended up with the sofa (at a cheaper price) anyway.
It was a real concious decision NOT to borrow the money, as I had become so used to the I Want It Now way of thinking.
This is one of the greatest things that this move to NZ has given me.
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