[Danpoll]

I was going to post this as a reply to Veronica's skilled workers post,

My advice to any craftsmen out there is if you are or like the following then stay away:

like money
You normally get paid good money for a good days work
you are grilled for a mistake
You are applauded for making money
if you are quick at what you do
If you are good at what you do
If you are used to being a craftsmen and getting more if youre better than the next man
if you have pride in your work and strive for perfection
Being advised by people who know less than a tenth than you
working with people with a poxy mickey mouse qualification treated better and paid better than you
That only time served qulaifies for a pay rise


Then stay where you are, because comming here and working with these clowns is as good as retiring. They do things slowly and unefficently and do things because thats how its done and seem to have no methodology or extended knowledge of what they do and why they do it. They seem to have one procedure fits all style working ethos, they are appalingly bad. Its shocking. You will get 17 to 20 per hour and Iam doing more hours now then I ever did in the UK. But. It takes me 2 mins to get to work in the mornings it takes 2.20m to get home, There is no traffic, the pace is so slow its almost reversing, you could turn up drunk evrey day and still work faster and more precisley than them. There is no hierachy in the workplace the boss's treat you like a person and are approachable. I now take pleasure in embarrsing these fools and rubbing it in how good Iam, otherwise you will end up destroying yourself. Money is not the be all and end all. As regards to OZ then I know ozzy plastererers in Canada there because oz is bad for wages, meat is expensive in OZ and I know plenty of kiwis who have gone there and come back. If you wnat money either stay where you are or work on the East coast US. If you can get over this total discrimination of craftsmen then you should be okay. Its hardly what I would call work, and the end of the day the british construction industry is no better, there is no pedantic health and safety regs and iam not stressed during the working day, these are the factors that should be important.

oh and get use to smoko's (tea breaks) one at 10 lunch at 12 and one at three.

Dan

[Bubbles]

:?

Not quite sure if you're happy or sad with the situation there Dan old boy.

Nothing like giving your new neighbours a good old slating eh !!!

Then stay where you are, because comming here and working with these clowns is as good as retiring. They do things slowly and unefficently and do things because thats how its done and seem to have no methodology or extended knowledge of what they do and why they do it. They seem to have one procedure fits all style working ethos, they are appalingly bad.

[chips]

Are you with your orignal employer danpoll?
If that's how you are being treated ,then yes, you have a right to feel aggreaved and to warn others.
Surely not ALL employers of skilled people are like that . Are they?

[steve&carrie]

something to do with a shoulder and a chip ???? :no

[Lukas]

...cleaning service in action :mrgreen:

[Danpoll]

Thats right, anyone who dare say that NZ is maybe not the eutopia and hey guys be aware of things is run down. If you read my post you will notice how I have pointed out the negatives and yet then counteracted the argument with how after all that it is a positive. I haven't gathered my accusations of the New Zealand Construction Industry solely on my own perspectives and experiences, these are common gripes that I hear from most poms. You can only say what you see, If i see bad workmanship I will say so, when I apparently work for the biggest and best firm in NZ in our field then it must be scary to see a bad outfit. But as I say when you work in a nice atmosphere with nice people a good boss, a nice bloke, a pace that is easy a laid back philospohy then that counteracts the pay issue. Just not having to sit in traffic and have to leave at stupid times in the morning is a relief and worth recieving less money. From others that I have spoke too in all types of industry have basically said that you wouldn't get away with it in the UK. Thats a few poms here with a fair few chips on those shoulders.

Dan

[nickchilli]

dan go self employed , and move to an area with lots of people , i was in a similar situation , theres muppets all over the world,


you think its fun and games learning regs for earthquake zone 1 , ??
nope . dont forget to remind them jona is gonna be dissapointed and lions are going to turn them over


ski season starts in 3 weeks season pass all booked :clap :clap

[Bubbles]

Dan,
I understand the pro's and con's on this thread. It was your choice of words I found a little hard on the eyes.

Its not what you said, its the way in which you said it mate. It did sound very much like sour grapes.

:cheers

[ruthyroo]

Although I wouldn't have put it quite as Dan did I have to say that both Mr Rr and I have had kinda similar experiences working here, in very different fields to Dan -and the frustration does boil over every once in a while.

Negatives we've found in the NZ working world
low wages relative to COL
old fashioned methods
doing everything on the cheap (blame central gov and low tax base)
major reluctance to try anything new - and definitely don't like any suggestion that there might possibly be a better / more efficient / more productive way to do anything - especially from a POM

Positives
proper lunch and tea breaks
lack of hierarchy - I regularly sit down with our CEO for a chat despite being fairly low in the org
generally less stressed or results driven
more emphasis on life work balance (though bugger all childcare)

I think unless you are into some particualrly buzzing field you will find NZ a bit behind the UK in terms of work. But as Dan said, there are positives - you just have to re adjust your ideas about what you want out of work. Work to live, rather than live to work I guess - despite the widespread presbyterian work ethic!

[chips]

Nickchilli- Leave the muppets out of this, i think they are highly professional entertainers!!
I am glad that Danpoll has high standards of work, absolutley nothing wrong in that.
If you could go self empolyed Danpoll, as sell yourself as a quility worker, i am sure you will do well

[Wannaway]

Working in the tax profession, I can't agree with the comment re low tax base. The amount of tax this government takes off businesses and individuals is, quite frankly, disgraceful. It wouldn't be so bad if noticeable improvements in public services/infrastructure abounded, but I don't see any evidence of that. The Labour Government in NZ seems to be a bit of a throwack to the type of Labour government we had back in the 1970's in the UK, tax people to the hilt and throw money at things without a thought as to what benefits that spending is actually creating. I consider myself to be a little left of centre, but the Labour Govt here is really reverting to archaic dyed in the wool socialism which doesn't really seem to be benefitting the majority of New Zealanders. Helengrad indeed!

[GeorgeM]

The Labour Government in NZ seems to be a bit of a throwack to the type of Labour government we had back in the 1970's in the UK, tax people to the hilt and throw money at things without a thought as to what benefits that spending is actually creating.

It was a bit distressing during the recent hoo-haa on the budget to hear Cullen bragging that the new Working for Families (or whatever it's called) package has brought over a hundred thousand more families into the benefit system.

He thought that this was a good thing - presumably in his warped mind a really successful state is one where everyone has to depend on state handouts to live. No doubt the logic that goes with this is that the more people there are who think that they depend on benefits of one kind or another to survive the more Labour votes that will be guaranteed. He's just buying votes with other peoples' money.

Over the recent past there has been a huge increase in the $ value of the tax take in NZ, but much of it has gone into employing more paper pushers to devise more and more bureaucratic regimes by which we have to live. As a manager coming from the UK I can't believe the complexity of some of the regulations which govern employing people here.

Why doesn't Helen and her gang get their history books out and look at what it was like in the Eastern Bloc in the 1970s. Over-regulation, central planning and the assumption that the state will provide for everyone just leads to mediocraty and stagnation.

[Danpoll]

Dr Cullen and his family credit assistance is aimed primarily for households that bring in and heres the good bit $24K GROSS.


Dan

[GeorgeM]

Dr Cullen and his family credit assistance is aimed primarily for households that bring in and heres the good bit $24K GROSS.

From the WINZ related website www.workingforfamilies.govt.nz :

START QUOTE

Working for Families

Working for Families is a package that is designed to make it easier to work and raise a family. It pays extra money to many thousands of New Zealand families. Greater financial support is available for:

almost all families with children, earning under $45,000 a year
many families with children, earning between $45,000 and $70,000 a year

END QUOTE

Aimed at slightly more people than those earning $24K GROSS, I would say.

[Carol]

Not a tradesperson - but a skilled teacher anyway - or so i thought.

I was very quickly put in my place by NZQA who gave me half a years salary for each year I had worked in the UK.
Compound that by cutting the salary scale in half anyway........no wonder I felt down!

THEN........oh my GOD! I had never HEARD of a "running record"
HOW did you manage to teach ANY kids to read in the last 8 years I was asked...................

I was tempted to tell them to go **** but - no best not in case I ended up "whinging".

Oh and by the way.........if I DO go for citizenship - can anyone SERIOUSLY explain to me why I have to swear allegience to the Queen - who I happen to admire considerably more than just about ANYONE I have met who was born here?????????





Danpoll.........thank you for the opportunity to rant.
I DO love it here...but sometimes some things just P*** me off!!!!
(And dont you HATE hearing THAT on the radio?!!!! I DO!!!!!)
;)

[Danpoll]

Hey george, you will also have noticed that the payments are on a desecending scale after 24K when I phoned and spoke to them two weeks ago and with our one child we would be eligable for about $13 a week if you have full PR or citenzenship, you can be paid this byweekly or as an end of year sum, if you go for the by weekly option then if you have earnt more than you declared they hit you with a bill at the end of the year. Great if you do no overtime and your money will never change. So at the end of the year it would probably work out to about $9 a week, god knows what would get if you were on the limit of there scale. $5 a week. Just speak with your local IR office Pm me and I will dig out their number for you.


Dan

[GeorgeM]

This is exactly what I object to - the scheme is complex and expensive to administer. We take an army of bureaucrats to work out who can get what and to make sure we don't claim what we aren't 'entitled' to. All to get a couple more dollars into a few peoples pockets (some who deserve it, many who don't; some who will use it wisely, many who won't).

Far better to save 100% of the cost of administering the scheme by not having it at all, IMO, and leave the cash where it belongs, in the pockets of those who have earned it, rather than trying to engage in social engineering.

Labour try to portray everyone who falls outside their little schemes as fat cats who don't deserve to have any say over what they do with their money and all of those on low incomes as the salt of the earth who deserve every single one of our cents that they are given. The latter never send these hand outs up in smoke, or into the pokie machines or p#ss them down the pub urinal, do they? Yeh right! We all know that the reality is very very different, and that to help a small deserving minority by such methods takes a huge amount of bad cash thrown after good at a large undeserving minority. Better by far to streamline government to make it as cheap as possible, leave more cash in everyone's pocket, and let everyone choose what they spend more of their earned dosh on. IMHO.

[Wannaway]

I can't agree more that all the schemes like "Working for families" does is create a culture of state dependency (although sadly it is becoming the same in the UK, those Labour types they don't change their spots quite so easily do they?).

It is a scandal that an extension of the state handout scheme brings more people within its net.

The tax system in NZ is incredibly regressive compared to most others I know (UK and mainland Europe primarily) and is so complicated that "the man in the street" has very little chance of getting his tax right, and the IRD has something of the Stasi about it..... Still, most NZers I know don't really seem that bothered, so maybe I should just stop being so "British" about such things and just shut up and put up!

PS feel a little uncomfotable about Comrade Helen cosying up to the Chinese government in the name of trade.

[Gran]

When we first arrived you could take all of your future family benefit (Which they payed back then) as a lump sum and use it as a deposit on a house if you wanted to. A lot of people became home owners then. I thought that was a very sensible idea.

By the way Carol, you probably wont have to swear allegience to the Queen unless things have changed, I didnt bcause I was already a subject of the Queen, but my Husband (not English) did. He by the way had problems with the old words and ended up swearing allegience to her "hairs and successors!". However the Mayor was drunk, he wouldnt have noticed.

[Carol]

He by the way had problems with the old words and ended up swearing allegience to her "hairs and successors!". However the Mayor was drunk, he wouldnt have noticed.


:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

I can just picture the scene Gran!!
;)