[Suenglenn]

After reading many pieces of advice and experience's on this and the UK2NZ forum's New zealand isn't quite the fantastic place we are led to believe.
I have recently read that many expats are suffering financially with many heading back to the UK, the company my husband got in touch with has two opening's why?? because 2 englishman have left are heading back to the UK due to poor salaries, cost of living etc. I was all for going to NZ a few weeks ago, filled in our EOI online got the job offer etc.... really excited... now feeling very negative.....

[robothamma]

Hi
I can relate to exactly what you are going through! :no We have spent the last 2 years trying very hard to find a way in and now we have, got job offer, had EOI selected, got a buyer for our house here in UK... and then I have a sudden attack of the wobbles :eek It doesn't help that my mother has put me on one hell of a guilt trip (as I predicted on the old board many months ago ;) ) so in away I was expecting this. But I didn't expect to be feeling how I do now :( All along I have been the one who wanted to go the most out of me and the hubby infact, I think it's fair to say that I have made this happen every step of the way which I don't think is a bad thing as you need to be determined to make it happen and to succeed. It's not that I have been looking through rose tinted glasses as I have read everything I could about New Zealand esp looking for the bad things (Anyone read "Emigrate with Caution"?) But now after my mother putting her pennorths worth in I feel very down, and a terrible mother for taking my kids away from everything and everybody they know :no this has made me look for all the negative things about New Zealand :eek
I am sure that this is normal, and just a part of the whole emmigrating process ( but I sure would like some reassurance from those who have already done it :nice1 ) The reason I wanted to go to New Zealand was not from a material point of view, although to a certain extent that does come into it, but because I wanted us to spend quality time as a family and have the children grow up in a cleaner & safer environment and my view on that hasn't changed. But I am concerned that although the wages are lower, the cost of living isn't that much cheaper than the UK and when you deduct just the tax alone from the wages I do wonder if you will need to take on 2 jobs to make it pay? The NZ property boom has done us no favours although I recognize that we migrants are partly responsible for that :?

Can anyone share with us how the move has affected their kids? I am dreading that "Mummy, I want to go to Grandma's/nanna's" how did you and the kids cope?

Sorry to go on, I'm sure I will recover soon, if not You might find me on the Islae of Skye :eek :?

[Diny]

What you guys are feeling is only natural. We are right on the cusp of moving to the Manawatu. I have a Kiwi husband ad have spent many holidays in NZ. The immigration game for us hasn't been as complicated as it has for some on this forum, I have not had to submit EOI's etc, I am being sponsored by my husband and my boys are in the process of getting their 'dual nationalities'. Right from the word 'go' I have been taken over by full on excitement, my only doubts have been how I will handle leaving my parents and family as we are all very close.

However, we are now at the 11th hour and what you describe as the 'wobbles' have well and truely set in. We've had an offer on the house (albeit a very wishy washy offer) and the reality that we'll be arriving in NZ around Christmas/new year has hit home. We have a really nice life here in the UK, nice house, nice area, family close by, a reasonable standard of living etc etc. I keep asking myself ..... if it ain't broken why are we wanting to fix it? I then have to go back to our original reasons for wanting to live in NZ - all of which have been mentioned hundreds of times by almost every member on this forum.

The only thing I can guarantee is this - if you don't go you will always regret it. If you do go and it doesn't work out - then come back to the UK and put it all down to an amazing experience.

As for not being able to manage on a smaller income. We are all going to have to adopt some pretty major lifestyle changes when we get there. I know that I am going to have to get out of the habit of comparing wages/prices/cost of living with the UK. We can't really expect to move to the other side of the world and expect everything to fall into the same comfy 'rut' as in the UK. I know that I am guilty of thinking that because New Zealanders speak English and Brits and Kiwis look the same - then everthing else should be the same too.

My sister in law is a single mother of 3 early teenage children. They have a 3 bedroom house in a nice town. She works - arranging her hours around the kids - she has a family car, they have weekends away, there's always food in the cupboard and the kids always have clothes on their backs. What I am trying to say is that they don't go without. In danger of viewing this last comment through rose coloured specs ..... my NZ nieces and nephews don't have the play stations and the computers etc ...... instead they have the open spaces, the countryside, the safe streets, the clean air and more outdoor entertainment than you could poke a stick at.

Money is important, but try not to think of the whole immigration thing in terms of dollars and cents - you may just miss out on the best thing that could ever happen to you. If you don't give it a go you will always be wondering 'what if'.

It is better to try then fail that it is to fail to try.

Diny

[robothamma]

Hi Diny,
Thanks for that :nice1 That was just what I needed. You sound in a similar position to us We live in a nice area, have a great school in the village and playgroup great neighbours etc... so why fi what aint broken? Spot on, it isn't our life that is broken just the UK :laugh
I think I would feel better if flights were booked, visa's in hand, and the house looked like we were moving in a month! Not to mention the organizing on the other side :eek I am seriously thinking about letting Hubby go over for a month to find us somewhere to live and a car and so he can settle at work abit before we all arrive as we will only have 2 working days from landing until he has to start work :eek :eek :eek

[Diny]

I know one or two folks on the forum where the husband has gone over in advance. Dave and Sandra did just that. Dave went over there a few months ago, Sandra flew out last week to join him. From what I can understand, she's really grateful that she hasn't got to start house hunting and car buying etc. Some couples don't manage too well being apart, some do .... if it's a situation you feel you could handle with no worries then I would think it was a very good idea. After all, 2 days between landing and starting work is pushing it abit - alot of added stress that you really won't need at such a time.

If you have any more major worries or last minute feelings of cold feet, feel free to PM me at any time. I know exactly what you are going through - sharing your thoughts and fears with people who are in similar situations will be a big help to you.

No matter what questions you have, you will ALWAYS find an answer on this forum. At times you think you are the only person being faced with these 'problems' .... a quick browse through these threads and you will realise that nothing is further from the truth.

Chin up !!

Diny

[clg]

I have been reading all of the negative posts I can find in hopes of coming at this with a very objective approach. These posts (particualry at uk2nz) were really worrying me so I read all that I could find on those forumns.

Yes, there are poeople having financial difficulties and I think that is something everyone considering the jump needs to consider. It seems to me though that the people really having troubles are either just flat out not earning enough (less than 40k nz for a houshold) or they are in jobs they don't like or both.

There are enough salary/cost of living tools that you should be able get all the info you need to figure out what you need to earn. I know we will earn less than I make in the states but it will be enough to give us a good standard of living. I have seen posts from people now trying to leave NZ that posted over a year ago with job offers worrying they would not earn enough to get by, they still went, are not making enough and are now heading home and very upset. This should not be a surpise to them. They knew they would not be earning enough but they went anyways. I know I can't make it on less than a certain ammount so that is what I need to earn. You just need to figure out what that ammount is. Be conservative because there are a lot of unknows.

The other people I see very unhappy are those that don't like their jobs. Again, if you are in a profession like that of a mechanic and get an offer from overseas wouldn't that raise flags? I figure that if an employer can't hire locals that is a bad sign for that employer so you need to assume you may need to change jobs soon.

The way I see it is that moving to another country is going to be stressful. I don't know how I will do making friends, adjusting to the culture, missing family, etc. But I can set some minimum standards I need to reach to make the move. I think the people posting with the most problems now went with too many things stacked against them. You are not moving away on permanent holliday, you have bills to pay, bosses to please and so on on top of adjusting to a new place.

[abbie & john]

Hi

I'm sorry you are all feeling a little wobbly. All the financial side of things, one major consideration is that if you have property that you have been in for at least 18 months in the UK, you will have considerable equity.
John and I know that we will not be earning the same money, however, we will be fortunate to be in the position to have little if any mortgage on a property substantially larger than what we could afford here. As Diny says, during your first few months of being in NZ you will probably be spending most of your time exploring - not as expensive as paying for the kids to go to local shopping mall!

Chin up, get your original pros and cons list out - look at it as one big adventure.

[veronica]

It is really hard to know if you are doing the right thing, for some people despite all the down sides they hit they are happy with their decision and others just don't settle regardless of things being spot on here. I have met people in the past who have been here and haven't a good word to say about the place, but they weren't happy in the UK either, I think they are the sort that will never be content whereever. There are others who loved it here but family ties at that time were too strong so they went home. It takes allsorts and you don't know what sort you are until you try it.

The only thing is if you don't do it you will never know.

Is renting your house out in the UK for a year an option. that doesn't burn all your bridges and would give you the financial option to return if you chose to. You can live in rental here while you make your minds up that way.

[karltsmith]

Only you can decide...thats the simple truth. There is information on the various forums to make some sort of informed choice. It also depends on your personality to some extent. For my part, and I have done it twice, I beleive that you are in a stronger position to have done it once gone back to your homeland and come out to do it again! A potted one line history of moi!

Some facts you MUST take on board are that you WILL be relatively poorer! You WILL pay more tax. Living in NZ is NOT cheap...relatively speaking. YOU May/WILL need to consider TWO Jobs, especially if living in AKL, Windy WELLY or ChCh. You WILL NOT get the same choices when shopping.

You will have more chance of sucess if you have capital behind you to buy a house, otherwise you may have very little disposable income and may not be able to lead the lifestyle you thought you would.

Sorry if this sounds negative....you are probably wondering at this stage why I'm here!

I lived in a three bed semi in Birmingham and was in the rat race, job going nowhere, house prices soring and thinking blimey is this it? Is this going to be what the rest of my life is going to be like? And what about my kids (twin Daughters 2 yrs old) What life will they have? Will I just be perpetuating an existance? What if? What if we just took our chances cashed in our assets and started again in NZ? Even if we fail we can say we gave it our best shot! This is our last ditch attempt to make a change!

We have now bought a house with views of the pacific on 4 times the land we had in the UK, are surrounded by top schools and amenities, have about 30-40 beaches within 1 hour drive the closest being one of the most beautiful in the area IMO and a leisurely 3 min stroll down the hill.....PARADISE?.....NO definately not but a big improvement on our UK lifestyle.

To achieve sucess you must be prepared for change an be able to embrace a new way of life and new cultures....sometimes it's not easy! We started our new life with about £200K behind us....modest by UK standards...more than some ...possibly less than most!

Was it right for us....YOU BET. We have had our trials and mishaps, misgivings, pangs of guilt as we bought out our two wonderful daughters and had to leave behind their Grandmothers who are devoted to them, injuries and illnesses along the way, My mother in law being rushed to hospital in the UK (has been in critical condidtion for the last 10 days, she's turned the corner now God willing, hence my absence from the forum for a few days, we were on stand by for a mad dash back to the UK!).

You will all have your personal trials along the way to test you and how you handle them or justify them is a very personal matter for you all to explore.

BUT rest assured you are not alone.......we will all have to confront such things in the fullness of time. Hopefully this forum provides a way giving support to those who need it after they have migrated as well as just going through the process!

MIGRATION IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED BUT IT CAN BE VERY REWARDING IN SO MANY WAYS!

[drumminj]

Thanks for that reply, Karl. It helps to have the viewpoint of one who's already made the move. I find it hard to get a handle on what is "enough" money to bring with you to help start your new life. I'm surprised to hear you mention needing a second job to survive in Welly and Chch. I expected to hear that about AKL, but was surprised about the others.

Definitely need to spend more time looking into expected wages and cost of living...

J

[Raeven]

Hi, karl,

You have been missed! I'm so glad to hear your MIL is improving. You've just gone through what I consider one of the scariest aspects of immigration -- the physical distance separating one from aged loved ones. How badly you and your wife must have wanted to jump on a plane and just be there!!

Great post, as always, and you have stated in very clear terms the weighing process we must all face for ourselves. All the information on forums in the world will not answer the true question: Is this right for me and my family? Nevertheless, all the shared information here is invaluable in making that decision an informed one. No one who spends time on this forum can claim they didn't have the best information available in determining for themselves how they will likely fare in NZ!

I look forward so much to being one who is viewing immigration in the rear view mirror instead of the chaotic mess up ahead, and I'm so grateful to you and the others who have taken their precious time and energy to give us the benefit of your experiences -- both good and bad. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

All the best, Rae

[Jodie]

This is SUCH a good thread! We've been thinking of emigrating to NZ since we visited in 2001, but made the decision to 'just do it' in March this year. Now we've been in Welly for 2 months and loving it! Yes, it was a pretty quick timeframe from 'deciding to do it' to landing in Auckland (20th July!), but in that time we REALLY looked into how much we would need to be earning over here to live a comfortable life, decided if we could achieve that and give up some luxuries that we're used to in the UK, and stuck to it.

I was once told (by a Kiwi) during an immigration fair -

'you will never be rich in NZ, but you will lead a good life',

and I have to say, this is has stuck in my head and is absolutely true.

We have come over with a small amount of money from the sale of our flat (that we owned for 2 years), and this will give us a decent size deposit on a house with about a $100k mortgage. I don't think you can come out to NZ as a couple (with or without children) and not expect to both work. The trend for the people who don't make it over here (as mentioned before) are that they are living on one wage, and that's where the problem lies. Evey kiwi couple I've met over here so far have both worked.

NZ as a place to bring up children will be fantastic. (We're in our early 20's so not thinking about a family just yet, but it's in the back of our minds....) All that open space, friendly people, free activities (like riding their bikes/skating along Oriental Parade, going to the beach, exploring the parks and woods etc), it will be so good to grow up in that environment. Yes OK, family and friends will be 12000 miles away, but you'll make new friends and form good relationships with them, and the family are only a phonecall away. Set up a web cam and you can see them all the time too!

I think that as long as you have considered the lower wages vs cost of living etc, you'll be fine. In fact, we were pleasantly surprised by the wages that we've managed to secure - maybe because we'd set ourselves up to expect much lower!

So don't be disheartened by some of the negative comments you've heard. Yes - consider the negative aspects of moving over here, but as long as you're prepared for them and adjust accordingly, you'll be just fine.

:nice1

[Michelle and Richard]

This is an excellent thread, we have been here a week and I have tried to post the costs we have encountered as we have gone along. Its an expensive country or I should say Auckland is an expensive city.

Karl and others sound very luck to be able tyo live up on the North Shore where prices are cheaper and its still a great area. We are near the city and a sea view comes with at least a $1m price tag, but thats auckland !


I have also tried to post how we have felt and looking back at some of my older posts I have tried to describe how we felt going through the whole process. its been very stressful and I feel certain there is a lot more to come.

Like many others we have given up good careers, pensions, healthcare oh and a 4 bed box and a boring routine predictable lifestyle.

We are now living in, albeit temp, accomodation that takes me back 20 years to being a student. I asked about a works pension at my new employers and I may as well have asked what time the next bus left for Mars. They don't have them and thats the end of it. Healthcare, well you have the state system but I would go down the private route so thats another cost.

Food, well you can get bargains but shop arround.

My husband has been speaking with people all day about job opportunities and thay have been telling him he will be on about a third of his UK salary thats a third not a third less. Admittedly he does have to requalify and then it will improve ...... hopefully.

I have given up a job that allowed me to travel frequently and also to take 4 good overseas holidays a year now we will make do with weekends away accasionally until we are sorted.

I am going on a bit now but i just wanted you to understand what we are giving up but why I still feel thats its the right move. We have lived here before so knew what we were coming to which helped.

We have given ourseslves a year and will assess the situation then, we have left our houses equity back in the Uk for the time being so we can go back.

Diny and others have really hit the nail on the head and I totally aggree with the above comments .

Dont burn all your bridges at home if you dont have to and come out and give it a go, its not for eveyone but at least you will have tried and thats how we ahve looked at it.

Its an adventure, although aske me again in a years time.

Best wishes

Michelle

[Carol]

After 8 years I STILL drive around Pauatahanui Inlet on my way to work some mornings and think "Oh my god - I am really here...I'm in New Zealand"
Yes there have been lots of ups.......many many downs.
I still miss my family terribly....too much really for me to say I am truly "settled"

My kids are having a ball. I've produced my own wee kiwi girl.
We work hard yes....we own two houses now.....rent the first one we bought out.
Call it a retirement fund.

We havent got the most luxurious place.
We dont decorate every room every other year like we used to.....paint..ha!!!!!
We have an older car.
Actually we have two older cars.

I would never ever ever go back.
Once you have cut your teeth......stuck it out for a while.....the place gets well and truly under your skin.

Karl...we are going through a similar trauma....MIL also ill in hospital. It has to be classed as one of the lows.........only a plane ride away though.
We moved halfway around the world..........kind of gives you the idea you can do ANYTHING if you really want to!
:nice1

[Michelle and Richard]

the only thing I can guarantee is this - if you don't go you will always regret it. If you do go and it doesn't work out - then come back to the UK and put it all down to an amazing experience.

Money is important, but try not to think of the whole immigration thing in terms of dollars and cents - you may just miss out on the best thing that could ever happen to you. If you don't give it a go you will always be wondering 'what if'.

It is better to try then fail that it is to fail to try.

Diny



Spot On Diny, well said

[Annierobrigado]

thanks for all your posts on the what ifs.

when you mention work hard, i know that means the couple has to both work. But how hard is hard? Put in 48 hours a week? overtime? hold down 2 jobs each? i suppose NZ does give vacation leave and sick leave too? when a job is advertised and they mention something like $36000 plus superannuation, what do they mean, and is that the amount after taxes? how much is income tax?

i recognize all you're saying, but there's still the fear at the back of our minds. do you still consider the "i told you so's" from folks back home in case you give up NZ and go back?

sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask these questions, but this was what i was watching at the moment. Thanks for all your help, esp diny.

annie ;)

[veronica]

If it doesn't work out and you get an 'I told you so' its easy to reply 'yeah, but at least I tried'.

[Diny]

Spot on Veronica.

Who knows what will happen. I love NZ, have spent alot of happy times there and 'I think' I know what lies ahead of us. However, the thought of leaving my family is a huge fly in the ointment at the moment.

Yes ....... I do get the odd comments from people (not family) along the lines of 'huh - you'll never stick it - you can't be away from your Mum for long'

I know that these people will/would be the first to smirk and say 'I told you so' if it all goes wrong and we return.

However, these are the people who would never consider even moving house to the other end of the village - let alone the other end of the planet.

It's a very brave thing we're all doing - and I kinda feel very proud of that bravery - you should too.

Diny

[drumminj]

I asked about a works pension at my new employers and I may as well have asked what time the next bus left for Mars. They don't have them and thats the end of it.

I've been meaning to research this, but haven't gotten around to it yet. So they don't have pensions, or any kind of retirement fund that the employers contribute to?

J

[Moorf]

Even the toughest of us have wobbles - I'm pretty hardnosed when it comes to being away from family - must be from my boarding school days - but even I have had a couple of "lows" and a few tears in the short 5 days we have been here... doesn't mean you hate it, or that it won't work out, or that it's the wrong decision - just means you are human!!

[Diny]

I totally agree Moorf. I've been told I'm as hard as nails (at times) but my family are my weak spot. This doesn't mean our NZ move is doomed to fail, it just means that if you crack open the hard exterior you'll find a human being underneath - and homesickness is just one more bridge we'll need to cross.

Diny