[Brit Guy]

I missed the topic started by Poly on the 24th… however, I would like to just add our little contribution to the forum…….


Our main reasons for leaving the UK for NZ…
· We want a better environment; by this I mean less crowded, less congested, less vehicular traffic on the roads etc.

· A total change of lifestyle. We realize that we may be no better off financially, in as much as the salaries are generally much lower than in the UK, however, we hope that by careful restructuring of our financial resources, we may fare quite well… property sales etc.

· Fed up with paying for all the refugees (with exception of the very few genuine cases) that constantly come into the UK. I make no apology whatsoever for saying this. Whilst I agree with a point made earlier that ‘we’ are moving to another country to try and get a better life, it is by no means easy. We are not stowing away in the back of a lorry, and we are not claiming free accommodation, medical care, handouts etc… basically, if ‘we’ don’t have something to offer, we are not allowed in, and even if we do have something to offer, if we have a severe medical problem, or anything which may be a drain on the system, we are not allowed in, which in fairness to the tax paying ‘kiwi’, is how it should be.

· Pistol Shooting (one of my main reasons)… this is a very ‘personal’ point. Pistol (target) shooting was my hobby/sport before handguns were banned by Blair’s government. I don’t expect everyone here to understand this, basically because most folk only think that handguns=criminals… oh how wrong! It has (had) been a very important part of my ‘social’ life since the age of nineteen. I took pride in the fact that I was good at it, and made quite a few good friends at the target club and social meetings we held. Fortunately, pistol (target) shooting is still allowed in NZ, so I am so looking forward to regaining my favourite pastime again. I was devastated when my sport was taken away from me, and that alone was enough to get me to thinking about leaving the UK… to all those who cannot understand this, it is like a ‘true’ football fan being told he/she can no longer watch/attend/play football or a biker who is told the motorcycles are to be ‘banned’… I hope this makes it more understandable. It seems that the attitude of the New Zealander is more tolerant towards shooting sports, and they don’t all have the “ban everything” attitude as we seem to have in the UK.

· Motorcycling… sold my bike five years ago, can’t wait to get on the wide open roads of NZ… looking at bike mags already!!!! :nice1

· Television… both my wife and I watch too much TV here in the UK. When we spent a month in NZ we were amazed at how truly abysmal the TV programs were. Now, I hear you all saying so why put it down as a plus point?? Well, no TV means more time to do other things… Shooting, Fishing, walking, biking etc… might not even bother with a TV (yeah right!)

· Sport…Like to watch Rugby, even some cricket (can’t stand football)… say no more!

· Attitude…We liked most (all) of the people we met in NZ, whether it was just a different attitude, or maybe the refreshingly positive feeling we got from them. Whatever it was, we liked it.

· Working to live… I run my own small business here in the UK, and to be honest I get time for little else but work, my wife also works hard with little spare time… we hope to change this.

· The challenge… of moving to a ‘new’ developing country, as opposed to living in one which used to be ‘great’ (we have been told to drop the ‘great’ from Britain… not politically correct), but now seems to be in rapid decline, in more ways than I care to mention.

· The “what if” factor… the thought of getting old and thinking ‘what if I had emigrated…’ and not knowing, because I never did it (you can always go back).


The things we will miss…

· The history… The architecture, including some of the most lovely old buildings in the world. The Historical monuments, working museums, bridges, viaducts, castles, etc… There is a wealth of history surrounding us in the UK, from the ancient ruins of our most distant ancestors, through roman occupation, the industrial revolution (started here), the great innovators of the time, mainly from the British Isles, and much more… This I will miss terribly. :(

Family and friends… I guess we all have this cross to bare. I don’t know how well we will cope with this… time will tell. I hope however, that we can make a whole new bunch of friends in NZ.

· Familiarity … of things we know, things we take for granted. Tesco’s down the road, British Pub’s, Real Ale, local takeaway’s, day-to-day ‘stuff’ that we are familiar with etc.

· Cheap Flights… to Europe and other destinations. Also we are surrounded by so many easily accessible holiday destinations here in the UK, and most of them are very affordable, so travelling may be a problem when living in NZ.

I guess that we all realise there are many things to consider, and that it won’t all be a ‘bed of roses’… every major change you make in life is a trade off… I guess you just have to understand what it is you are trading. :hopeso

[Timbo]

Welcome Britguy. Well that was some first post aye. Talk about jumping in the deep end.
I can relate to your point about shooting etc. as I am a life long angler and it would be a big blow to have that taken away from me on pretty spurious grounds. I should add that although I am not pro hunting as in fox hunting, I am not against all forms of hunting. The kiwis seem to like to shoot just about anything that stands still long enough, so best get used to the idea I suppose.
Have you got visas in place etc, or are you just starting out?
Where are you hoping to head for?

[Brit Guy]

Hi Timbo

Thanks for the welcome… yes I guess I did jump in at ‘t’deep end!

You asked where we are in the process… well, we are awaiting the ‘invitation’ and have been told to expect it within the next two or three weeks. Also awaiting police report and medical report. We wont be able to go until next year however, as we have some major commitments in the pipeline… :(

Regards

Kevin

[Brit Guy]

Timbo

Oh… forgot to add… foxhunting isn’t my thing either, however, I would defend the right of others to pursue their sport. Hunting, in all its forms, is a matter of conscience. Notice they didn’t ban ‘driven game’ shooting… that’s were they breed thousands of pheasants just so they can be driven (spooked by beaters) towards a line of shooters, so they can be knocked out of the sky!!?? That’s what I call nonsense… however, would I ban it? certainly not. Neither will the government (yet), too much money involved.
Also Timbo, I notice you like fishing… many folk would ban that (course fishing), as it is said that it is not only cruel and distressful to the fish, but there is no reason or ‘end product’ as you don’t even get to eat them!!! However, I’m sure you would feel different… and yes once again, I would stand shoulder to shoulder with you if it came to a fight to defend your “sport”.
I realise that this is not the place to debate all of this, but all I will say is that there are too many folk trying to ban this ‘n’ that in the UK, and unfortunately the government jumps on the band wagon every time they think they can score a few more voters.
This is another serious reason for our leaving the UK.

Best regards

Kevin

PS The rant isn't aimed at you Timbo... just something I feel strongly about... the right of an individual to make a conscious decision without input from others who only 'think' they know better :nice1

[ali]

the fox hunting ban was clearly outlined in the labour manifesto before the last election, which they won by a large majority, even though it was a small turnout it seems most people in england would agree with them so i don't really see how you can say it's jumping on any bandwagon, and unfortunately when poor old fox has been ripped to pieces by the hounds it hasn't really got any chance of a conscience

[Gran]

Hi Brit Guy,
I echo your thoughts about the history and the cheap destinations from England. I hope it all works out well for you. Just a small sugestion though. It may not be a good idea to put your gun in your hand baggage !!!!!!!!!

[cpgrant]

· We want a better environment...

· A total change of lifestyle...

· Fed up with paying for all the refugees ...

· Pistol Shooting (one of my main reasons)…

· Motorcycling…

· Television…

· Sport…Like to watch Rugby, even some cricket (can’t stand football)…

· Attitude…

· Working to live…

· The challenge…

· The “what if” factor…



With the exception of the need for Rugby and Cricket, it seems you would really like Montana. Maybe we could trade places :mrgreen:

[Brit Guy]

Ali

Guess you didn’t get the point’s I was trying to make Ali… besides, like I said, wrong place to start debating about the ‘poor old fox’ as you put it. But, you are entitled to your opinion like anyone else. As for Tony Blair’s lot however, you must be kidding… they have jumped on more bandwagons than John Wayne! :laugh :laugh :laugh

[Brit Guy]

Gran…

… thanks for the advice :laugh I will be sure to take it!!

[Raeven]

Hi, cpgrant,

Welcome to the forum!!

As a former Montana resident, I'd have to agree with your assessment of Brit Guy's lifestyle. (Welcome to the forum to you, too, Brit Guy!!) Are you originally from Montana? Or did you migrate to there from somwhere else?

Montana's a great state, if you can stand the cold and manage to land in the right spot.. but it's changed a lot in these past few years, I hear.

Brit Guy, where are you thinking of migrating to in NZ?

Nice to have you both aboard and posting!

All the best, Rae

[Brit Guy]

Thanks Rae

Looking to move to Christ Church.

[cpgrant]

Are you originally from Montana? Or did you migrate to there from somwhere else?

Montana's a great state, if you can stand the cold and manage to land in the right spot.. but it's changed a lot in these past few years, I hear.



Originally from the East Coast then to Chicago then to Montana. I love much about Montana - even the cold :eek The major changes I've noticed in the past few years are sadly in synch with the national trends. Still, it's a staggeringly lovely place; it's going to take an awful lot to change that fact.

[Caven]

Hello Brit Guy,

Maybe, when you're over there you can really enjoy your hobby! Apparently, one day a few years ago, some dope breeding Possums for fur let at least two go. These two promptly went perv on each other and now there are about 70,000,000 of the buggers eating the world.

Don't agree with all forms of hunting, but I do like a good garden, you're welcome to stay at mine when I'm over there :laugh

[Brit Guy]

Hi Caven

Thanks for the invite.. and yes, apparently possums are considered a real pest in NZ. Funny isn’t it, as just across the pond in Aus, they are considered to be a national institution, and are thus protected!? Strange world we live in. I know hunters are encouraged to shoot them in NZ, and also the government drops hugh amounts of poison (tons) each year to keep their numbers down. Quite a shame really… they are cute little buggers. As for me, I only tend to hunt what I can eat. And I always spare a thought for the quarry. I hope that when (if) I ever give up hunting, I will have the conviction to become vegetarian. I never cease to be amazed how many folk who oppose hunting (of rabbits, hare, venison etc), think nothing of buying meat from a supermarket or popping in to the local MacDonalds for a Bigmac ‘n’ Fries…. Oooooooooh….makes my blood boil!! However, if they are that much of a pest, I may try possum burger… “would you like to go large sir?” :yes

[drumminj]

· Fed up with paying for all the refugees (with exception of the very few genuine cases) that constantly come into the UK. I make no apology whatsoever for saying this. Whilst I agree with a point made earlier that ‘we’ are moving to another country to try and get a better life, it is by no means easy. We are not stowing away in the back of a lorry, and we are not claiming free accommodation, medical care, handouts etc… basically, if ‘we’ don’t have something to offer, we are not allowed in, and even if we do have something to offer, if we have a severe medical problem, or anything which may be a drain on the system, we are not allowed in, which in fairness to the tax paying ‘kiwi’, is how it should be.


I don't have time to reply to this whole post and give my reasons for going to NZ, but I want to say that I actually agree with you on this point. It's frustrating to see all the hoops that I have to jump through to get to NZ, and all the conditions I have to meet. But then I step back and look at it, and I'm *happy* to be moving somewhere that only lets people in if they can contribute to the country/society. It definitely is more fair for the taxpayers. I don't think you have to apologize for this statement.

J

[drumminj]

Hello Brit Guy,

Maybe, when you're over there you can really enjoy your hobby! Apparently, one day a few years ago, some dope breeding Possums for fur let at least two go. These two promptly went perv on each other and now there are about 70,000,000 of the ******* eating the world.

Don't agree with all forms of hunting, but I do like a good garden, you're welcome to stay at mine when I'm over there :laugh

The guide we had for our kayaking trip talked about this a lot. Said he was taught as a kid how to kill a possum with his bare hands. And that rather than swerve to avoid hitting one of the rodents, they actually swerve to try to hit them. I found that funny, but it's good that they're trying to keep the habitat as "natural" as possible, so long as it doesn't require removing humans or sheep.

J

[kamus]

One small point on hunting: although there is an obvious and oft cited hypocrisy in so far as the people you describe who buy meat at the supermarket and yet oppose hunting. There is one big difference: those people are not staring down the barrel of a gun and pulling the trigger. You may argue successfully that by their meat purchasing lifestyle they are accomplishing the same thing but I think it takes another kind of mindset to be able to kill an animal (or really anything) directly.

I don't oppose hunting as a matter of survival- I just don't understand how people can take actual pleasure in killing things. :no

Not trying to start a flame war here- just my opinion- YMMV

[ali]

Ali

Guess you didn’t get the point’s I was trying to make Ali… besides, like I said, wrong place to start debating about the ‘poor old fox’ as you put it. But, you are entitled to your opinion like anyone else. As for Tony Blair’s lot however, you must be kidding… they have jumped on more bandwagons than John Wayne! :laugh :laugh :laugh

guess i did get the points dude, sorry guy, :nice1 you seem to be a bandwagon expert brit guy, and looking at your reasons for leaving uk not shy to jump on a few yourself. :yes :yes
ali

[Pakeha Boy]

Kamus, I'm not so sure there are so many hunters in NZ that take such a great amount of pleasure from the actual killing of a creature that you seem to allude to.
There are many other aspects of hunting that provide a great deal of enjoyment ie, spending 2, 3 or 5 days fending for yourself, isolated in a totally wild and native environment. I wonder how many people on this forum have ever done that?
IMO it is simply an outdoor sport, that provides several meals of pork or venison. Both deer and boar were introduced species that have run wild and have inflicted untold damage upon the native fauna. Hunters of these pests should not be regarded as some kind of deranged rednecks that "jest love killing sh*t" . Maybe thats what they're like way down south in Alabama y'all, but please, don't judge the NZ bushman by those same standards.
End of flame war! :cheers

[Brit Guy]

Kamus

Thanks for the reply… and yes I agree, in as much as it does take a certain ‘mindset’ to be able to ‘kill’ an animal, whether for sport/food or whatever. As for me, I spent most of my spare time as a young boy on a farm, as my grandfather was a farmhand. The rearing and killing of animals was part of everyday life, and shooting over the land became ‘treat’ for me most weekends. That’s when I first got the ‘taste’ for hunting, if you can call taking the occasional pot shot at a rabbit, hunting! It was more the fact that I was spending time with my granddad, someone who I both loved and respected (I was raised by my grandparents).
It is difficult to explain fully what it is about hunting that I enjoy, I will just say that it is not the act of actually ‘killing’ that I enjoy, but the whole experience of ‘the hunt’, being out in the wild, trying to either spot or track down your intended quarry, getting into a suitable position that is safe to take the shot. I know that this will also be hard to believe for some people, but I always feel compassion for the animal that I have shot, and I really don’t like to see unnecessary suffering. Finally I have the task of dressing out the carcass, which is not a pleasant job at all. One of my favourite meals is casseroled rabbit in red wine… and when my wife and I sit down to eat, I know exactly where it came from and I know exactly how it was killed.
Just one point of observation, when I go our ‘rabbiting’ I might see twenty or more rabbits in one evening, however I may only get close enough to actually take a shot at two if I am lucky… then I might miss! As you quite rightly stated Kamus, there is a “oft cited hypocrisy” by folk who are against hunting, but who would happily buy meat at the supermarket, and I can quite understand that there are few who would or could ‘kill’ animals for their meat. But what sometimes incenses me is that quite often, these folk who would condemn me for what I do, they will think nothing of getting a ‘bucket of chicken wings’ without so much as a thought for the twenty or so animals whose ‘wings’ they have just purchased for a snack!
Kamus, you also say that you have nothing against hunting for survival, but lets be honest, in most countries we don’t need to hunt to survive, I would however, argue that hunting your own ‘meat’ is far more honest than taking it from the shelves of the local supermarket, at least you know how it died, you know it lived ‘free’ until the point that it was hunted, you know that it had a chance to either get away/not be seen/missed shot etc. I should also say at this point that I am as guilty as any other meat eater, in as much as I buy chicken, steak, offal and so forth… I tried stalking cows once… found it to be very un-sporting… you can walk right up to them and they don’t bat an eyelid…just mooooo!!!

Regards

Kevin

[Brit Guy]

Pakeha Boy

Thanks for the input… you said it better than I could. :cheers

Best regards

Kevin

[Brit Guy]

Whoooooooo hoooooooooooo!!!!!!! Just sitting here reading the latest posts when postman arrived with the “Right to Apply” package from NZ house……. :cheers :cheers :cheers

[Caven]

Well done mate, congratulations! :nice1 Possums beware! :laugh

[bbq]

Whoooooooo hoooooooooooo!!!!!!! Just sitting here reading the latest posts when postman arrived with the “Right to Apply” package from NZ house……. :cheers :cheers :cheers

excellent news

Well done & good luck

cheers

alex :raebanana

(p.s. Thanks Rae for the lend of your banana!)

[Moorf]

I've seen loads of possums in our few days here - unfortunately there were all flat in the middle of the road :?

There is alot of "possum" products here - my favourite? The possum nipple warmers!! :laugh

Isn't it funny how the way an animal "looks" kinda saves its skin (literally?!) - if possums were scaley, ugly creatures with big gnashy teeth perhaps peeps wouldn't feel so bad about getting rid of them!

Ok, they have big gnashy teeth.. but you know what I mean!

:?

[Brit Guy]

Yeah… I second that Moorf. Had the same conversation with friends. It appears to me that the more ‘stroke-able’ and cuddly looking something is, the more people seem to oppose killing (eating) them. Good example is the rabbit… children’s fav pet etc, however, pork chops or steak seems far more palatable for most folk, maybe because cows and pigs are less cuddly and ‘petable’. Then there is the ‘Bambi’ syndrome. That is to say that some people may be outraged at the thought of a deer being culled and eaten, but wouldn’t think twice when buying a chicken sandwich… same thing really!

[jesselyn]

hi brit guy,

just wanna say welcome to the forum... :cool
wow! another soon-to-be Chch resident :nice1

jes :angel

[jesselyn]

Whoooooooo hoooooooooooo!!!!!!! Just sitting here reading the latest posts when postman arrived with the “Right to Apply” package from NZ house……. :cheers :cheers :cheers

wtg!!! :clap happy for you... :yes

jes :angel

[Brit Guy]

Thank you so much Jes… looking forward to it immensely... still cant believe i'm sat here with the Invitation.. :mrgreen:

[jesselyn]

yvw bro.. ;)

>>>>> thinking (how soon will kevin buy the bike?) :mrgreen:


jes :angel

[Brit Guy]

A Harley (no too obvious)…. A Triumph (naaah too British)… Blade (nope… I’d kill myself before I got out the garage)…. Oh decisions decisions.. then there is the car.. nope promised myself a 4x4, maybe a Hilux.. or a Mitsubishi… or…or…

:raebanana

[Diny]

It's a great feeling eh Brit Guy?

Harley ....... roads are made for them.

Triumph ....... best of British.

Blade ........ definate no no (hate them).

Hilux ........had one in Oz ... blooming lovely trucks.

Here's to your choices and your future :cheers

[Iain & Liz]

Hi Brit Guy,

Many congrats, we hope to be in Christchurch soon as well :hopeso

What a can of worms you opened, I enjoy the odd rabbit my self, and as you earlier put at least if you have done everything yourself you know it has not been marinaded in a big vat of chemicals to make the meat look pinker! Did you watch the river cottage series with Hugh Fernley Whitingstall (brilliant viewing)!

all the best

Iain :nice1

[Brit Guy]

Thank you Ian & Liz

Yup… guess I did open a can of worms… I just like to make people think sometimes… not as I’m always right, far from it (ask my wife)!! But yeah, at least you have ‘done everything yourself’ as you say… no chemicals, no forced-fed, ill-treated upbringing… and yes, I did watch (some) of the episodes of ‘River Cottage’. Did you see the one where he had the pig? Ended up making black pudding (bucket full of blood), sausages, hung dried-cured ham…….Mmmmmmmmmm.Some of the stuff that guy produced look fantastic! The sad part is, not many people in the UK can do this anymore, what’s more, not many would know how, or even want to! The thought of pickling fruit, making sausages, curing ham, sitting close by a real log fire drinking home made wine or mead HEAVEN!!

[Brit Guy]

Hey Diny

I have a friend in Chch… he also tells me that the Hilux is the way to go. I took a test drive in a new Hilux Invincible the other day. It seemed a great drive, however, only got to drive a few miles on tarmac… not the same as off road I guess. I guess that there will be different models available in NZ… bigger engines, tinted glass etc… then there’s the bike (did I mention that already?)…oh…. Then there’s the boat… hey a guy can dream huh!!
:roll:

[Iain & Liz]

Yeah I have seen most of them, even brought the book (good reading).

The only thing he has done that I possibly wouldn't was eat the calves testicles. Not my bag baby (boom boom) :wah

Iain
:nice1

[Diny]

Brit Guy

We had a Hilux when we lived in the Northern Territory, Australia. We often went into Kakadu National Park where the 4WD aspect of the truck was really put to use. We once crossed a crocodile infested river - the water lapping over the bonnet ...... and the old girl just trundled through and up the bank the other side.

My dear Pakeha Boy also has a long list of 'boys toys' .... boat, bike, quad, guns etc etc.

What is it with you men?

Diny

[Brit Guy]

Diny said "My dear Pakeha Boy also has a long list of 'boys toys' .... boat, bike, quad, guns etc etc. "

Diny... Pakeha Boy sounds like my sort of guy… be nice to hook up at some point! Tell him I’ll be bringing my .308, .223. .357 .22 etc etc… we could have a blast… literally!
:cheers

[jo b]

Diny said "My dear Pakeha Boy also has a long list of 'boys toys' .... boat, bike, quad, guns etc etc. "

Diny... Pakeha Boy sounds like my sort of guy… be nice to hook up at some point! Tell him I’ll be bringing my .308, .223. .357 .22 etc etc… we could have a blast… literally!
:cheers

My husband is exactly the same, shooting fishing bikes etc etc :exit

His list is as long as my arm.

Jo

[kamus]

Kamus

Thanks for the reply… and yes I agree, in as much as it does take a certain ‘mindset’ to be able to ‘kill’ an animal, whether for sport/food or whatever. ...
It is difficult to explain fully what it is about hunting that I enjoy, I will just say that it is not the act of actually ‘killing’ that I enjoy, but the whole experience of ‘the hunt’, being out in the wild, trying to either spot or track down your intended quarry, getting into a suitable position that is safe to take the shot. I know that this will also be hard to believe for some people, but I always feel compassion for the animal that I have shot, and I really don’t like to see unnecessary suffering..

As you quite rightly stated Kamus, there is a “oft cited hypocrisy” by folk who are against hunting, but who would happily buy meat at the supermarket, and I can quite understand that there are few who would or could ‘kill’ animals for their meat. But what sometimes incenses me is that quite often, these folk who would condemn me for what I do, they will think nothing of getting a ‘bucket of chicken wings’ without so much as a thought for the twenty or so animals whose ‘wings’ they have just purchased for a snack!
Kamus, you also say that you have nothing against hunting for survival, but lets be honest, in most countries we don’t need to hunt to survive, I would however, argue that hunting your own ‘meat’ is far more honest than taking it from the shelves of the local supermarket,..

Regards

Kevin

Hey Kevin and Pakeha Boy.

Just a belated reaction to some of your comments. As I mentioned before, I don't understand the mindset of the hunter. And after your comments, I still don't. As far as being out in the wilderness for a few days (I have done that), I call it camping/backpacking.

So it really seems that part of the thrill for you guys is definitely the "hunt it down and kill it" part. If it was just for the thrill of hunting, you could just just hit 'em with a paintball or something. I think that, although when people who eat meat from the grocery store are definitely hypocritical when offering dissenting views of hunting, and aren't being honest with themselves when they fail to see that their actions as consumers result in the appalling slaughter of vast numbers of creatures, I also think a lot of hunters (I don't know if this is really you guys or not- only you know) aren't honest when they claim they don't get enjoyment out of killing stuff directly with their own weapons.

I watch hunting shows for a few minutes at a time on US TV sometimes, and it seems clear that these guys do definitely enjoy killing stuff. Either that or their really chuffed that they could outwit a moose.

As I said before, I'm not trying to stir up flames here and I'm not going to condemn hunting, I just think that participants on both sides of the debate aren't being totally honest with themselves.

And for the record, I buy meat at the store, I know how to shoot a gun but I won't directly kill something unless I absolutely have to, so as you can see, I'm definitely conflicted on this issue.

-Dave

[Diny]

Far from me to be one of those wives who speaks up in the place of her husband, but I just thought I'd say a couple of words in 'defence' of my Pakeha Boy.

I can honestly say that for him the thrill is the tramping through the bush, the tracking, the chasing ..... the actual lead up to 'the kill'.

He also gets one hell of a thrill from serving up a meal that he has provided - in the true sense of the word.

However - to achieve stage 3 you have to endure stage 2 - the actual shooting.

I totally agree with you that there are some folks who take a wierd delight in killing an animal, however, I've known this man for many years and I can, hand on heart, assure you that he doesn't fall into this category.

Like you - I'm not wanting to stir up flames - it's just another slant on an endless arguement.

Did you see the news report about the Countryside Alliance supporters storming parliament when the fox hunting ban was being debated?

I'm a farmers daughter, have lived in the country all my life and have actually been fox hunting, my cousin is the 'whipper in' of our local hunt, however - I would never do it again as fox hunting really is killing for killing sake.

What a political & moral hot spot this subject could turn out to be. For every pro there will be an anti ..... here endeth my input.

Diny

[kamus]

Thanks Diny

I wasn't trying to single anyone out, least of all Pakeha Boy who is one of my favorite posters here.

-Dave

[Timbo]

Brit Guy. It sounds like you would get on just fine with the fellas on this forum..give it a look in.

http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/default.asp

This is where our Stu usually frequents.

[Diny]

Hey - not at all Dave,

"There is no conversation more boring than the one where everybody agrees."

Diny

[Brit Guy]

Kamus

I think you have hit the nail on the head when you said “I don't understand the mindset of the hunter”. I have read some of your other posts, and you are clearly very articulate and intelligent, and as such, I don’t wish to insult your intelligence for one moment, however, it seems that you are tarring us all with the same brush. You mention “watching hunters on TV…” who like to kill! YES there are some folk who just like to see things die… don’t ask me why, but that’s their problem. In fact I have known a few myself, however, for me, it is not all about the kill as I stated before. I think that Diny said it best “He also gets one hell of a thrill from serving up a meal that he has provided - in the true sense of the word..” which I wholeheartedly agree with.
I guess at the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that some of us are able to hunt the stuff we eat (and enjoy it), and some are obviously more at ease to purchase it ‘ready done’. I suppose we should respect each other’s viewpoint, even if we ‘cant understand’ “why” it is we are so different. Neither should apologise to the other, it is just a matter of moral choice. Whether or not a person gets a thrill or not from killing something, is down to the psyche of the person, but for me, that’s not what it’s all about… it’s just one part of the 'getting it to the table'. Just a thought, you say you cannot understand anyone who enjoys killing animals (hunting?), so does that mean its okay for the guy who works in the abattoir who does it without second thought, maybe even monotonous boredom, as he blitzes his way through hundreds of animals a day?… or is just okay because that’s ‘his job’?
I guess we could argue the toss forever, however it just boils down to different strokes for different folks. I appreciate your viewpoint Kamus, and I also respect you for not condemning something you “cannot understand”. And as for being truthful, if you asked me why I actually like hunting, I would find it very difficult to actually put it into words. Maybe it’s in the genes… a remnant of past ancestors… I really don’t know, and that is the truth.


Regards

Kevin.

[Brit Guy]

Thanks Timbo… just checking the link now………. “ahhhh … too many forums, too little time..!”

:laugh

[kamus]

Kevin, thanks for your post. I really wasn't trying to be judgmental at all: I truly wanted someone to give me an honest answer about why hunters hunt and I got two good answers-one from you and the other from the Pakeha/Diny unit. My query probably didn't belong on this thread (what was the subject again? :angel ) I just saw the reference to shooting and I thought I'd ask people who were obviously capable of expressing themselves well for their take on the subject.

I guess it's a touchy subject because, let's face it, killing is a touchy subject. I sense that there is a lot more to your "genes" explanantion. It definitely seems like it must issue from some primality within us. After all, our survival as a species has depended and still depends on killing. And yet civilisation (and various holy texts) teach us that killing is wrong. It seems that mankind has a definite schrizophrenic relationship to the whole subject.

Personally, the idea of me pulling the trigger on anything, cute or ugly, is repugnant , but I'm guessing that that repugnance might be just some thin fakey "civilised" veneer that would vanish the instant my or my family's survival depended upon killing something. And certainly I'm aware that my eating habits perpetuate a cycle of industrialized slaughter so I'm certainly not being trying to be holier than thou or anyone else, by any means, thus it was instructive to read the replies posted here and gave me insight into a mindset I do not share.

Thanks for allowing me to partially hijack your thread in the pursuit of my continuing education and for your honest replies.

-Dave

[Stu]

G'day Dave.... shooting critters? Ain't no big thing. If you have a farm ,chances are you'll have a gun to shoot pests, like rabbits or possums. It is actually quite good fun, judging the shot perfectly, squeezing off a round, the slap of the recoil in the shoulder, seeing the target drop, bang, whack, thump.... it is a real rush.
Hunting rabbits is fun. You have to stalk along very carefully, mindful of wind, and making no noise or heavy footfalls. You ease up to a gap in a hedge, and look through the gap, and there along the hedge on the other side is a rabbit feeding, maybe two.
So, close the bolt, raise the .22, slip off the safety, lay the 'scope on the shoulder of the rabbit. Crack! Thump... the rabbit is smacked to the ground, instant kill. Another rabbit takes off across the field in alarm, you track it as it goes, reloading as it runs, trackingtracking, scanning the background for anything to stop from firing.the the rabbit stops and sits upright,ears up, looking to see what scared it. Scopes back on the shoulder...breathe in, out, hold it, squeeze... crack! Second rabbit drops. Gottim! Yeah! hoo-ah! And they don't go to waste either... skinned, the dogs love rabbit meat, as do farm cats. Me too actually, on a large rabbit there is a fair bit of meat you can get, mostly around the back legs and the shoulders.

I too feel sorry to see a cute rabbit dead, they are indeed very cute, but they are also noxious pests, they GOTTA be controlled, personally I prefer the idea of an instant bullet over a virus any day.

Duck shooting... slowly walking along a stream bank, alert, ready to go, when with an explosion of water, a pair of mallards hurtle out of the water weeds just ahead of you...WHoooooshhh!!! Instant adrenalin rush, the stock comes up to the shoulder, line up the barrells, lead the first duck, BLAM!, it folds and drops, the next barrel, swing left, lead a bit more as it is now a long range shot, BLAMM! second bird drops, WOW! What a rush! The retriever shoots off, gets the birds one at a time, brings 'em back, tail thrashing in delight... mate, it really is a ball.

I personally do not duck shoot any more though, as I do not have a dog to find and retrieve the birds, and I am darned if I'll run the risk of wounding a bird and have it get away.

But if you have ever enjoyed playing space invaders or anything like that, then mate, you have not even touched on the thrill of hunting.... and boned duck breasts? maaaatttee! Yumm!

Shooting I do not enjoy? Putting down animals for whatever reason. Yuk. Feels stink. Had to do that a few times, and it is not a pleasant experience at all.
cheers, Stu.

[Lizelle]

:mrgreen: Way to stirr up the pot, Stu!

Me, I get tears in my eyes when I see a stray dog in the road. Used to go home with all kinds of stray animals (and wept my eyes out when the poor little birdy didn't make it - even had a graveyard for them)

Hubby, though, grew up on a farm where shooting is a way of life. He likes it, still have pictures of his first warthog that he shot.

It's not something that I believe I could do, but I do know that life needs balance, and life in the wild is molded on the strongest that survives. Before humans started walking upright, the small furry bunny was running away from the hungry dinosour with the big teeth. We killed of the big animals, or put them in reserves, and now there is no balance in nature.

For that reason, I have no problem with hunting. As long as you track it yourself (being the big strong one with the big teeth), and not shoot something that is fenced in a small yard (here in South Africa there is a big market for that, lots of overseas "hunters" with no idea whatsoever of what they are doing - waiting in the car for the local hunter to spot the animal, track it, and then take the "hunter" to it to shoot. That I have a big problem with)

I must say that hunting something and eating it seems like a much purer form of living that simply bying it of the rack, and unless you are a vegan, hunting is not really something you can complain about.

Cheers
Zelly