[xanctus]

Hello,
I have been reading some website saying that there are actually some people and leader in NZ govt. that somewhat is anti-asian immigrants. Now I wonder, are there a lot of local people that actually hate asians BIG TIME? or is it just a rumour?

these are 2 links that stated about reluctantcy about asian immigrants
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=9876&cid=18&cname=Opinion

the other one is

http://www.emigratenz.org/discontent-immigration-policy.html

[jhsay]

This is actually a sad truth. Racial discrimination is present in NZ and Asians are the most hated. My fil-Kiwi friend who has been in NZ for 7 yrs still feels the prejudice. Despite being law abiding and very decent (she's a nurse there) some people are unkind to her bec. of her origin. Once she dyed her hair so that she won't look like one. It wasn't because she is not proud being asian (Filipino), she just felt tired of being discriminated.

[xanctus]

is that so? hmmm interesting...I thought NZ is one of the peaceful country....

[Annierobrigado]

hi xanctus, jes

that is so sad to learn about anti-Asian feelings, especially toward migrants. i just hope when we get there we wouldnt experience it. maybe in dunedin, where we hope to go because of the universities there, there wouldnt be any or too much discrimination. after all, there are many international students there.

am still crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

but if ever, i just wish these discriminating people would spare my children. I can take it if it was just me, but if they hurt the kids...

:hopeso
annie

[calin]

Why do you think there are anti asian feelings in NZ?

[veronica]

I think because of the sheer number of them, that they seem to live in one area and change the nature of that area from kiwi to mini asia? and because of that some of them don't have to learn English so they don't actually socialise with the kiwis. This is just my summing up of the bits I have heard. The ones that do mix in and socialise with the kiwis seem to be accepted fine on an individual basis.

[jhsay]

Another input. My friend's place was robbed a few yrs ago (she's in Auckland). She said most new migrants from asia (well Asia is a bit too big, oriental is more appropriate) fall prey to buglars bec. these outlaws perceive that these migrants brought their family's fortune over to NZ. Good thing that she's got insurance.

-jinkee

[Stu]

Why is there an anti-asian feeling in NZ? Partly because after so long as a predominantly Caucasian/Polynesian country, in the 90's we suddenly had a HUGE influx of asian migrants... like around 40 thousand a year or something. In a small country like NZ, that is a LOT of new faces! Many people are not as cosmopolitan as in other countries, and seeing a huge swell of asians (pretty much all in Auckland) sure made a lot of people take a step back. Yikes!
However, I do not think it is all that bad. Like I have said before, most kiwis tend to think folks is just folks.
The percieved problems with Asian migrants in NZ? Firstly they have pretty much all gone to Akld, and as they are indeed pretty wealthy, they have immediately bought in the best areas (naturally, who wouldn't)... this has driven the price of properties in these areas way high, causing a degree of resentment in those who also wanted to move to these areas... but I am sure to the delight of those selling!
If you think Kiwi drivers are bad, well, the general pet irk here is that new asian drivers are worse.... and no, not for racing, but for going soooo sllloowwwww...
What else? ummm... dunno really. Personally I have no problem with asians(or anyone else for that matter) coming here, as they do indeed bring both money and drive to succeed with them, which we need in this country, a lot better than taking in large numbers of polynesians who tend to wind up on Social welfare here in NZ (Sounds bad? I don't like to say it, but it is true...perhaps not in the 1st arrivals, who have moved to improve their lot and do indeed work hard.. although in mostly unskilled, low paid jobs, therefore immediately into the lower socio-economic circles... but certainly their children have as much trouble assimilating into pakeha NZ culture as do many young maori. Polynesian culture just is not adapted well yet to modern life. This is a huge subject, let's not go into it here).

We do have a political figure here who has climbed on this band wagon... Winston Peters. Phagh... a populist. He will say whatever will grab the most headlines and appeal to the largest audience... and picking on immigrants is easy I guess. However, he is not a particularly hugely supported party...I mean, is a party below the 5% level a serious threat?

So, to summarise. What irks NZers about the asian immigrations recently. So many of them, all in Akld , something like in under a decade they have made up over 10% of the population there. That is a BIG difference to the demographic.
Irritants are: in many poor english skills, which makes communication with them difficult. Buying up entire neighbourhoods, and not seeming to assimilate into the general community.
Easy to identify... "oh, another bloody asian" sort of thing. A lot harder to recognise a yank, pom, polynesian or whatever, so easier to blame if ..say, the guy ahead of you is driving too slow or poorly or something.. if the driver is white, then hey, he's just a jerk, but if he is asian, welll, it's those bloody asians again ,always driving slow, yadda yadda yadda.

I don't think there is any particular venom in it, just frustration (especially in Akld) with so many new migrants with different habits etc. I think anywhere else in NZ, it is pretty much not an issue, as we have not seen our towns/cities suddenly go from our white/brown mix to a White/yellow/brown mix.

Oh! i just remembered! BIG anti-asian gripe is the asian approach to the sea! How could I forget that one... sheesh... but it is true that thru either lack of awareness or deliberate action, asians just cannot get their heads around our laws regarding seafood harvesting. Probably because in their home countries, there either is so little available or there are no controls, that when they arrive here in NZ and realise that every beach is loaded with cockles/pipis/tuatuas (all bivalve clams), the rocks are covered with whelks etc and the seas are full of fish, and so they just go out and get as many as they can. The beaches around Akld now have been vaccuumed, and it was indeed largely by asians. At sea, asian fishermen are disproportionately represented in those caught with huge hauls of undersize/over limit fish. (As are polynesians). THAT is perhaps one irk folks most particularly can point a finger at asian immigrants about.

If i see anyone pillaging fish etc , i tell them and remove their ill-gotten gains (throw back their fish, and I am too big for them to argue, but I do it nicely, explaining that they have been breaking the law etc, haven't been thumped yet :-) (the number of 6'1", 20stone asians would not be huge either eh! :-) ), but this too is happening far less than say 5 years ago... the new immigrants responsible are I presume learning the rules. Used to happen all the time at the wharf at whitianga, not any more though.

Is there an anti asian prejudice? Perhaps. Not a serious one I think. Just a clash of cultures really. Are there idiots who yell abuse at asians when they have had too much to drink etc, I am sure there are. Just as I am sure there are some rivalries in asia between say Malays and chinese and indians in Singapore/Malasia, or between Japanese and koreans in Japan etc etc. Nowhere is perfect.

Had there not been such a huge surge of asian migration to NZ in the 90s, then this would never have happened probably, that is the area Winston Peters has made his name, criticising govt immigration policies.

Anyhow, those is just some of my thunks on the issue of Asian prejudices in NZ.
cheers,
Stu.

[Lukas]

Respect Bro...

[xanctus]

well explained Stu...thx and I appreciate that.
I do not blame why some local somewhat dislike migrants especially from Asia because of their attitudes and bad habits from their home country. However, I think it will be quite bad for some people who are from other asian countries whom have the ability to adjust and adapt western lifestyle but yet get stereotyped because of the colour of the skin/form of an eye...(u know what I mean right).

I am aware that every country has some discrimination...but I have never knew that even people in the government deliberatly/verbally show some indication of disliking particular group of people...

[ruthyroo]

has anyone read John's story on the Migrant Stories? Can't rely on just one case, but this is the kind of story that has been reported in the press here re. anit-asian immigrant feeling.

[Annierobrigado]

i think you are all right about the sentiments lobbed against Asians. A clash of cultures, really, and perhaps the fault also of those Asians who congregate and don't try to at least learn the language of their adopted country! They just rather follow their own habits and culture and disregard (to the point of rudeness) the feelings and way of life of those who came before them! There are Asian immigrants in my home country as well, and really, some of them are just frustrating to live with! These have no manners, don't consider the welfare of their neighbors, look down on the locals and hide behind their language if they get caught violating our laws and say they don't understand english or filipino so they have no idea what we mean. :wah :wah

But if there would be a place in NZ (Chch? Welly? Palmy? Anywhere?) where the people of this forum would all settle in, I would definitely go there, because the forum has already erased the boundaries and borders of the countries we came from and have just begun to know each other and perhaps already adjusted in some way, because as everyone has said, we all bring what is best in us to NZ and hopefully we all benefit from one another!

[sanjivgoomer]

Hi All,
I am an Asian and am proud for being one. Not all fingers of the hand are equal. One can find good or not-so-good elements in every sphere of life (leave alone communities), it is just how one looks at the things.
I feel this forum is not the right place to discuss this topic.
We are here to share our experiences, queries, anxiety, joy and wait while we all prepare to start our new life in our dream country.
No offence meant to anybody.
Regards
Sanjiv

[Pakeha Boy]

Hi Sanjiv.
Tell me, if this isn't the right place to mention racial disharmonies, then where is?
I could go down to the pub and talk about it with my mates, but it would be a one sided story. I could talk about it over dinner with my family but it'd be another one-sided story. Are you catching my drift here?
How many of us in our routine lives really integrate on a daily basis with the "other guys". Largely, if we're honest, we don't.
I am fortunate in my line of work that I do live and work very closely (I'll hold off using the term intimately :eek ) with different races from different cultures, and am a better man for it. Yes, I agree when you say there's good and bad out there, but its not enough to leave it at that. If we cannot speak openly and express our own opinions here in cyber-space, a place that naturally transcends the colour of our skin or easily hides the bigotry that may flash in our eyes, then where on Earth can we?
Cheer Big Ears!
:cool

[xanctus]

The reason I start this thread because I want to know how bad is it...as many people mention and agree before that every place has positive/negative aspects on it. If you read the link that I gave you it is quite scary for some asians to come to NZ (to be honest with you). Now, my thread is not trying to lead any prejudism or something. More likely I just want to know from some people who have been living in there and had any experiences. (as you mention yourself in your statement, "We are here to share our experiences, queries, anxiety, joy and wait while we all prepare to start our new life in our dream country.")

Sanjiv please take a look at this...this guy is also from your home country
http://www.emigratenz.org/msjohni.html

This forum is a good medium for people who are likely to move to NZ. So that they will know and learn the actual living style and conditions in NZ.
Again, I am not trying to make NZ or its people get stereotyped being racist or prejudice. This is just an actual facts that everybody needs to know to make it even better for the NZ itself.

[Annierobrigado]

hello sanjiv

i am asian too. but we all belong to the same world, so i guess we all have to make some necessary adjustments if we want to live in harmony with the rest of mankind.

i agree with Pakeha boy that we need to know here in this forum what the reality of being a newcomer to NZ is, without the rose-colored glasses. at least in this forum, we can edit our thoughts, feelings, what we have to say about the matter, so that we don't consciously hurt somebody's feelings and consequently turn this forum upside down. I am asian too, filipino for that matter, and i have heard thousands of stories of discrimination against my countrymen in the US, UK, Australia, Europe, even the middle East! None so far in NZ, though, although some Filipinos are sad that they can't quite get the job that was similar to the one they left back home, and had to settle for something lower. Still, it's part of the process of adjusting to a new life, isnt it? THe story of John should not be enough to discourage someone from pursuing his dream of finding a better life somewhere else, particularly New Zealand. Although if there are other stories that abound, I hope to read about them, so i can gauge for myself if it will be worth giving up what i have now for something strange in another land. :hopeso

We'll stick together, okay? ;) Continue joining in these posts and discussions, so in some way or another we'll get to know each other and maybe when we get to NZ we can look out for each other because we've already been introduced somehow in this forum.

I'd appreciate it if you have heard of other stories that could be classified as "anti-asian" sentiments. maybe some of them will be dramatic, others comedic, so we'll just laugh about it! :laugh

Good luck to you.

Annie

[Moorf]

I normally avoid hot topics like this as I find it hard to get my point across via text... but having been out today and spoken to 2 Kiwi guys and BOTH those guys made reference to "Asians" in a bad way I thought I'd share this experience...

First guy was picking limpets - we asked what he was doing and he said he was seeing if they were edible before " the bloody asians " started eating and selling them :eek Now, I took this as being a sort of joke but Woz thought he was being derogatory...

Second guy was guy we met at Goose Bay (he was the Warden for the layby/camping area) and lived there in a caravan. I was asking about a sign nearby which stated what you could and couldn't take from the shore as food.. i.e. crays, crabs, paua. The sign listed the sizes that the seafood had to be before it could be taken etc etc. Before he had explained this he began a rant about how the "Asians" were descending on the shores and harvesting Paua - even the ones they weren't supposed to be - and that he had literally just called the police as he'd seen a gang of them on the shore in the distance ... he spoke of them as if they were pests (ok, they are breaking the law so I guess that is v. annoying as it does deplete the paua somewhat by taking immature ones).

The point I am trying (badly?) to make is that for the first time I came across 2 Kiwi's views on Asians... and they weren't too positive - and the Kiwi's are not very good at holding back... they say what they want. Having said that, I wonder how many would "diss" an Asian working in the City as CEO of an IT co? Eh?

Moorf

[Diny]

I think there maybe a degree of 'bandwagon mentality' being exercised by some Kiwis.

I'm not living there yet so can't really speak with any authority on the subject, but I can relay to you something I encountered last year.

Some very good friends of ours live in Half Moon Bay in Auckland (sounds romantic doesn't it - really it's just street after street of suburbia). Anyway, when we visited them they were telling us all about the area and they kept making reference to the 'bloody Asians' and how many 'Asians' are being let into the country, and how the Asians do this and how the Asians spoil that. They gave us a tour of their property, along with the flat they have which they were decorating in preparation for renting it out.

A while later, we phoned them and they told us that they had got tennents in the flat ... wait for it ......."a really nice Asian lady with her 2 small children. Oh she's lovely, very helpful, her kids are a delight, and she's teaching us how to cook authentic Asian food".

Does that seem abit like double standards to anybody else?

Might I also add - with no slur against our friends - but she is only a first generation Kiwi, both her parents were born and grew up in Holland.

I'm alright jack !!!!

Diny

[Stu]

Yep, Diny, it is as I said, there is indeed I guess you could call it racism, but not on a personal level. here is a huge diff between dealing with people en mass and individuals. "bloody asians" scouring the seashores for what seems to them to be free food they are used to getting seems like pillaging to kiwis, and that rankles, my oath it does. But wait, there's more!

OK, in the union movement here in the good old days of the '70s etc, when unions ran the country, every union rep was a pom... those "whinging bloody poms" we all vented against, they were always causing strikes etc, geez, we hated poms. Then the aussies had the temerity to start beating us at rugby, and those bloody cheating b*st*rd Aussies were pretty unpopular here, whew, I tell ya. You know those Kiwis who left NZ to head to Aussie? Well, their leaving merely raised the average IQ of both nations, as our Prime minister of the time pointed out.

Of course, then again, the dutch are pretty unpopular too, tight fisted, (hard working bugger them), speak funny, kiwis don't like the dutch mutch either. Of course, the fact that a good mate I go fishing with often is dutch doesn't worry me, he's a mate, you know.
And have you tried getting a taxi in Auckland these days? They're all bloody indians! Sheesh, bloody indians everywhere, in taxis, corner shops, that really irritates kiwis.
And Yanks! Holy cow, doesn't everyone really hate the damn yanks? And the french? those rainbow-warrior-bombing ratbags, we really hate the french.
Of course South Islanders are a pack of b*st*rds, especially Cantabrians(Christchurch). But not the 2 guys from Chch I go to the Solomons every year fishing with, obviously. Aucklanders? Jaffas? Well, the whole country hates bloomin' aucklanders (Jaffa= Just another effing aucklander)
..... in facctttt.... Everyone that is not in the immediate neighbourhood of this chair I am sitting in as I type this is a person to rail against. Yes, even you, so shaddup.
.... How many groups of people in the world are there, well, if they can be identified, (ie: asians for instance, or maybe Hottentots? Who-ever.), and someone has pee-ed of someone else, then all members of that group will be fore-ever tarred by the same brush. Oh, but not you mate. Hell no.

I think it is just an Us & Them situation. If "us" are chatting among ourselves, then "them" are not part of our gang, eh ... but if "Us" happens to include a couple of asian mates from work, well, obviously they are not "them", they are "Us".

To pick on asians... yes, there has been a notable clash with Asian people behaving in a way we find unsettling as far as seafood harvesting goes. And we will indeed moan about that. Asians are a very large immigrant group to NZ in the last decade, it will take some getting used to, by us AND them.

In Matamata here, there is a very established family of Chinese,no names, obviously. But they have had a grocers shop here in town for 3 generations now, my folks knew them well. One of their sons went off to become a vet surgeon, and came back home to matamata to become a partner in my Dads vet practice. In turn, a decade or two later, I employed one of this guys daughters, picking asparagus when she was in the 6th &7th forms at school here in town. Do I think of this family as anything other than ordinary old fellow Kiwis? Hell no. Be serious. Them are Us.
The "bloody asians" that you will have heard people complaining about are newly arrived, yet to be assimilated people. In five years, ten years, they will be having a beer with everyone else at the footie club of a saturday arvo, moaning about all the bloody .... ??? Iraqi immigrants, who just aren't like Us.....

Is this racism? Or is it just something to moan about in general conversation? Lookit those sods over there, pack o' b*st*rds to a man....
I wouldn't let it worry you really.

Cheers, Stu.

[xanctus]

hehehe nice write up Stu...
glad finally share some thoughts. This is what forum is for :nice1
long live New Zealand :cheers :cheers :mrgreen:

[Lizelle]

LOL :laugh :laugh :laugh

brilliant post, stu :clap :clap :clap :clap
You seem to have missed your profession (if it is not in writing)

good on ya
Zelly :mrgreen:

[Diny]

What a brilliant reply.

I think you've missed your vocation in life (unless you are a writer of course).

What you wrote about is what I was referring to when I called in 'bandwagon mentality' - it's just that there's no way I could have put it as well as you did. :nice1

Diny

[Stu]

Asparagus grower for money, this for fun...
http://www.billfish.tv/download_issue.html

cheers,
Stu.

[Moorf]

Fab posting Stu :clap :clap

[Annierobrigado]

hi stu,

i agree with all of the forum people. you really said what we all think about the "bloody" people that rant about the bloody "them", who don't belong to the bloody "us". (the brits, are they all obstetricians or midwives? they do like the term bloody... :mrgreen: )

still and all, i hope the kiwis would be welcoming to those in this forum who are yet to land on NZ shores... :hopeso

:cheers
annie

[shagen]

I am a Malaysian of Indian origin. Definitely an Aisan by a mile. I studied in Australia and England, worked in Australia and have lived in many countries outside my own home country in the last decade.

In all the places i have worked/lived together with my Malaysian ethnic Chinese wife and my two mixed marriage kids, I have never felt discriminated against, in a really rude manner.

You get the occasional stare from people, even people from our own country. But once you get to know someone, I find that people don't judge you by the colour of your skin or the way you speak English or the way you dress, but you as a person.

My 6 year old son mixes very well with Australian, South African and American kids compared to other Asian kids in his school. His 2 best friends in school is a Belgian and an Australian, both "whites". Maybe becasue he speaks only English and there is no communication barrier, may be it is the "us" and "them" thing. Maybe because we do not ourselves talk about these things and our kids are not affected by it.

In the last 15 years or so, I have made many friends of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds, and I am proud of that. I will not not say that I am totally not afraid of discrimination against Asians in New Zealand but I will also not say that I can't get over it.

Here in Indonesia where I live and work currently, "whites" are discriminated against but at the same time there are many many "whites" married to local Indonesians and live happily and assimilate well into the local culture and society.

In my opinion, it is how one tolerates and assimilates into another culture. In Asia where crime is relatively a bigger problem, most Asian houses have high walls and all windows with iron grills. Even in modern Singapore! I have seen some houses in Perth owned by Asians with similar high walls which the locals call "anti-social". Somewhere in this forum we spoke about how the Kiwis don't insulate their homes, me included in the discussion. If others who move to NZ "remade" their homes to make it warmer, will we be seen doing something "anti-Kiwi" because it is not the norm in NZ?We may change the general Kiwi perception of a warm home or we may be seen to change something very Kiwi. I don't know!

I have met some very lovely people on this forum who come from various background and we are the people who want to make NZ our new home. Some have helped me in various ways without thinking or questioning what my ethnic background was. I think if we can do this in cyber space, we can do it in our daily lives which will make this world a better place.

I think dicrimination exists everywhere. It is how you cope with it. If you take it personally, it affects you, if you don't it does not bother you.

Cheers,

[Timbo]

:clap :clap :clap Very well put shagen.

[calin]

Yep, Diny, it is as I said, there is indeed I guess you could call it racism, but not on a personal level. here is a huge diff between dealing with people en mass and individuals.

You convinced me Stu. If I’m one of “them” ( an asian for instance) I will not feel the racism coming form my neighbor. On the other hand, you say “here is a huge diff between dealing with people en mass and individuals”. So, how about the NZ government? The government has to deal with mass rather than individuals. The comments below are taken from a NZ newsletter. I’ve seen several comments like the ones below:

“It is also clear, however, that in the guise of settlement outcomes the Government has really introduced a policy which whether by design or by accident is seeking to neutralise the small but growing anti immigrant vote in New Zealand. Some would call much of what the new policy is simply racist. Some would say it is giving New Zealand employers what they want. Either way New Zealand might now be labeled dangerously xenophobic toward some nationalities and ethnicities.
For example, applicants don't necessarily have to have a job offer in order to engage the residence process. There is a work visa to residence process available to them, but in order to qualify for the work visa they must have had work experience in a comparable labour market to New Zealands. Germany, Denmark, Sweden and a number of other European nations where business is not conducted in English are on that list of comparable labour markets, but English speaking countries such as India are not. This is difficult to understand when many of the world’s largest employers (and those in the high-tech IT industry) are busy transferring thousands of jobs to India simply because of the high education standards and the quality of the english language spoken. Likewise, China (not that it is an English speaking country). Japan, however, (where very few skilled migrants come from) is on the list as being a comparable labour market.
One can only speculate that with the increasing concern over recent months at the numbers of Indians and ethnic Chinese qualifying for residence and the political disquiet that has been rumbling away at that is the root cause of these countries being left off the comparable labour market list.”

[beah]

:( Its sad to hear about the discrimination in NZ. But I guess, discrimination is prevalent everywhere, not just towards other races but also towards their own countrymen. I just hope that this does not involve physical violence.

Nevertheless, I still think that NZ is a good place to live in. :nice1


Beah

[coastcat]

Interesting passage, calin. The "comparable labour market" restriction does seem a little biased. As you noted, China and India are not considered comparable but Japan is. So are South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, and the Philippines. In the last NZIS draw, 23.9% of the selected EOIs were from those four Asian countries (Japan's percentage was too small to be broken out on the pie chart), and 12.8% came from China and India. Compare that to the draw on June 23, when the passmark was 150. About 10% of the selected EOIs came from "comparable" Asian countries, and 31% were from China and India. This big shift makes sense, since you pretty much needed a job or job offer at the 150 mark and the comparable labour market points are only relevant for those who do not have a job or job offer.

I'm curious about the government's classification of comparable... legitimate, or perhaps they've decided that immigrants from China and India are less likely to blend in culturally and economically? (lest we forget, for all its apparent modernization China is still a Communist country)

This is difficult to understand when many of the world’s largest employers (and those in the high-tech IT industry) are busy transferring thousands of jobs to India simply because of the high education standards and the quality of the english language spoken.

Well, they're busy transferring jobs there because of the education standards and because workers there can live well on 20% of the salary expected by a comparable US worker! But I doubt outsourcing backlash has anything to do with NZ policy (especially as some companies are outsourcing to NZ these days).

I am rather curious as to when this labour market restriction was added to NZIS policy.

[veronica]

A lot of the jobs that have been moved to India and other asian areas are primarily for ecconomic reasons and having had to deal with some of them in the UK before we left I wouldn't say it was because of the language skills. Some of the people we phoned had such a heavy accent that we weren't able to understand what was being said, and I felt that they were having the same trouble with us. It wouldn't surprise me if over the next few years that trend was reversed.

There are different stratas in all labour markets, but most of the Western labour markets are similar. I don't feel qualified to make too many remarks on the Asian/chinese/eastern labour markets but my understanding is they are very different to ours. Anyone out there with experience of both who can explain the differences.

[Annierobrigado]

what's important for me as a potential immigrant is to be given the opportunity and place to show the marketable skills and experience i have that can be of use or can benefit the host country, in this instance NZ. if NZ will turn me away without getting to know what i can or cannot do, then that is a form of discrimination. just the chance! who knows? i'm a very adaptable person, i'm fascinated with the "whites" only because they have different color of eyes from mine, but of course now i can have green eyes too if i order some from the local optometrist... but my skills and personality deserve to be heard and seen, and that's just what i need from the nz govt. so it'll be up to me to prove how right i am. isn't that what we do everyday?

i've said this before, and shagen has repeated it too, that i've been blessed to be included in this forum and have gotten to know many kind and helpful people from different parts of the world, and if we all see each other in nz, why, that will surely make nz the best place to live in!

so let's all stay tuned and remember this is only one earth and one galaxy. i don't know if there's a parallel universe, but this universe is my home and there's enough for everybody.

:cheers
annie

[xanctus]

maybe one day we should get together when we are all in NZ...and becoming a big forum family that share laughter and experiences. So that, all of us can be the best example of diverse people that NZ can get hehehehehehe

[shagen]

Hey, Xanctus, that's a great idea! I second that!

:cheers Let's party! :cheers

[Annierobrigado]

exactly! it'll be great! will hold on to that thought!

annie

[All_Blacks_Fan]

has anyone read John's story on the Migrant Stories? Can't rely on just one case, but this is the kind of story that has been reported in the press here re. anit-asian immigrant feeling.

But there were 2 other people of South Asian origin in the Migrant Stories section who said positive things about relocating to NZ.

[StevieD]

Good thread and interesting views. I think many of the comments made by Stu are mirrored in the Uk, about the lack of integration, the swarming over neighbourhoods, taking them over to the point that they do indeed become "little wherever" etc..
Also the perception that these immigrants are all here to loaf around on the state benefits trail and have loads of money in tow with them.
Again it is lack of understanding, poor reporting in our press and actually people who do live up to that stereotype. But I could also point out an awful lot of white British people who have never worked a day in their life, who spend their days in betting shops or pubs, drinking and smoking and not contributing to society.
At the end of the day, people are people, and while I do hold suspicions of people who appear "different" to me, I am willing to give them a chance, because after all, I am "different" to them, and I don't think I'm a bad guy, so here's hoping that it isn't going to be a big problem for people in NZ.

Steve

[All_Blacks_Fan]

Good thread and interesting views. I think many of the comments made by Stu are mirrored in the Uk, about the lack of integration, the swarming over neighbourhoods, taking them over to the point that they do indeed become "little wherever" etc..
Also the perception that these immigrants are all here to loaf around on the state benefits trail and have loads of money in tow with them.
Again it is lack of understanding, poor reporting in our press and actually people who do live up to that stereotype. But I could also point out an awful lot of white British people who have never worked a day in their life, who spend their days in betting shops or pubs, drinking and smoking and not contributing to society.
At the end of the day, people are people, and while I do hold suspicions of people who appear "different" to me, I am willing to give them a chance, because after all, I am "different" to them, and I don't think I'm a bad guy, so here's hoping that it isn't going to be a big problem for people in NZ.

Steve

Couldn't have said it better. Rep pts 4 U.

[xanctus]

Mamamia, this thread was created in sept of 2004, and it's still alive now? :D:D:D

[Avalon]

At the end of the day, people are people, and while I do hold suspicions of people who appear "different" to me, I am willing to give them a chance, because after all, I am "different" to them, and I don't think I'm a bad guy, so here's hoping that it isn't going to be a big problem for people in NZ.


Really like that.

A Stranger is simply a friend you havent met yet.

[diforsyth]

I think the biggest problem, and this is worldwide, is that immigrants can find it too easy to gain comfort from the expatriate communities. They stay in their comfort zone by trying to re-create their own country in another instead of adapting to where they are. It is the communities, often segregated from society, that tend to cause fustration & anger. I'm not saying that beliefs and cultural habits should be dropped, just that there shouldn't be an obstinate stance that there is a right to continue without thought or feeling for those around. What is acceptable in one country may not be in another.

Sadly, and maybe it's human nature, most people try to share or demonstrate their own culture before trying to learn another. As ignorance plays a huge part in prejudice, things would be a whole load easier if it was the other way round.

David.

[edmundt]

Been wondering if I should share my experience & view on this topic. Perhaps may expose my 'frog in the well' thoughts & create more misunderstanding. Anyway, here goes:

I'm a Singaporean Chinese. Been to NZ in 1999 & 2003. During these 2 trips, I did sense a subtle difference in the ambience by which Asians are being perceived in NZ. During the first trip, during conversations with Kiwis, there were more discussions on Maoris than Asian migrants. It seems that Asians were generally well accepted then. During the second trip in 2003, there were more discussions on Asian students misbehaving. The presence of more Asians was felt. And I'm talking about places outside Auckland.

Funny how this 'us' & 'them' thing affects even amongst Asians. In Singapore, over the past 5 years or so, we also experienced an influx of other Asians & sometimes, differences in culture & behaviour does create some discomfort.

But having been to some other countries where such problems are more profound, I would think that NZ is not as bad. My concern is how fast & how much worse can it get by the time we come over with our kids. We can't escape from the fact that more migrants will be coming over with the opening up of China & India. The thing is how to maintain a society that is tolerant & understanding to each other. A little misunderstaning can go quite out of hands at times & that's how deep prejudice can arise. On the other hand, to-be-migrants should also be prepared to give up some part of themselves in order to blend with their new country. Just a simple example, if one comes from a country where loud speaking in public place is norm, they may not be aware of the beauty of quietly appreciating nature when out on a beautiful trek in the wilderness.

During our first fishing trip out in the Marlborough Sounds, we were indeed pleasantly surprised that our host measured each fish that they hooked up & threw back those which were even 1 cm shorter than the required length. We were amazed, knowing that this civic mindedness is not the result of potential fines, if caught by the authorities but out of the every day living of these people, who were educated to protect & respect their nature from young. Similarly, beaches & parks were kept clean, without 'tons' of roadsweeper, but because this is the way of life in NZ. And this is something that is very good & something that every migrants should strive to maintain when we go over.

At the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is :

For the migrants, be sensitive to the new environment, respect & appreciate the new country & their people, behave & try not to stick out like sore thumb.

For the New Zealanders, give us a chance to be part of you. Be patience in allowing us the time to learn. And be gentle in correcting & guiding. And perhaps also learn to appreciate the migrants for what we are.

[xanctus]

Brilliant write up Edmundt...
I am absolutely agree with what you have said. Some migrants shall learn to adapt into its new society. I guess just like old word..."when you live in Rome, does like the romans" hehehehehe.

[StevieD]

maybe one day we should get together when we are all in NZ

The ball has already started rolling on that one.... ex NW meet gang met at Taupo!! :)

Seriously though, it could be a good occasion, because it isn't just ex-pat Brits, but people from all parts of the world with one thing in common - our desire to live in NZ.


Another comment made was about integration, the cleanliness, lack of litter etc. That is one of the reasons we chose NZ, because we share those values.


I'd definitely be up for it when I eventually get there :raebanana :raebanana

Steve

[blink_guy]

Excellent reading. And my first post! Love that quote as well Xanctus "When in Rome, do like the romans do" if I got that right i.e.