[pleccy2000]

wow I havn't started a post for a while..... anyway....

I was wondering how many people here have been to New Zealand and returned back to the UK? (or are thinking of returning soon)

I have tried three times and returned to England 3 times……. Attempt number 4 is scheduled for late 2006.

So tell us your stories (in a nutshell if you don’t have time!)

[DLW]

Wow!

So, Have I got this right? you are now on your 4th migration to NZ? Wow! When did you emigrate the first time? and how long did you stay each time?

We have just done it the once...so far!!! but I have friends of friends, who have also been back and forth between NZ and UK twice (so emigrated here three times) and I must admit I can see how easily that could happen. It must have cost you quite a bit though? unless the exchange rate was in your favour each time! You must have a backbone and nerves of steel and a skin as thick as a hippo!, not to mention a great deal of grey hair..., or no hair come to that! ooops! sorry I hope I haven't offended you! :oops: I just mean you must be very brave! :clap

Is your story already on this site? if it isn't give us a brief synopsis! :nice1

DLW

[Jade]

I might be on the next plane back soon! Only reason is that I cannot seem to find work. Loads of vacancies but I keep getting the "we need someone with NZ experience" answer when I apply. Took me 3 yrs to do the transfer course for NZ registration as well so you could imagine how fraustrating it must be for me. Otherwise, I know i'd love it here if i could find a job soon as money is running out.....

[Marco]

Hi there,
This thread really took my attention. For me emigration is a once (or twice) in a life experience. When it doesn't work out, you return "home" or go to another country and you try it again somewhere else. But going to emigrate to the same country for the 4th time?? I can't imagine - would love to read the stories behind it.

And why can't you find a job in 3 years' time? This is also something I would like to find out more about. When you do not find a job in your own profession, why not try something else - don't the kiwis like that idea?

Look very much forward to your reactions/stories.
Anita

[pleccy2000]

I might be on the next plane back soon! Only reason is that I cannot seem to find work. Loads of vacancies but I keep getting the "we need someone with NZ experience" answer when I apply. Took me 3 yrs to do the transfer course for NZ registration as well so you could imagine how fraustrating it must be for me. Otherwise, I know i'd love it here if i could find a job soon as money is running out.....

Jade, what is your area of work. Don't let not having a job make you return back home!

I will write a synopsis soon!

[Jade]

I am a Lawyer - specialising in commercial law and property. 5 years experience in the UK.
Jade

[pleccy2000]

OMG! I can't beleive you can't find work!

[Moorf]

Where are you Jade - we have friends here and she is a lawyer and found work relatively easily - we're in Christchurch - perhaps I could hook you guys up if you're in the area?

[Jade]

I am in Auckland right now. They are quite a few job vacancies in my skill area, but I keep getting the "position applies to someone with NZ experience" replies.....that is the problem. What area of law does your friend in CHCH specialise?
Jade :( :(

[Moorf]

Not entirely sure, will find out. :yes

[Karen and Rich Matthews]

Was really interested in this. I have two colleagues i used to work with who both moved to NZ this year.One returned within five weeks and the other (who has been out there since Christmas) has also decided to return. Perhaps the most frustrating thing is that people assume you don't want to hear the terrible tales and why they are thinking of returning. If anything, it just makes me more nervous! :wah In my ignorance i can only think that it is the homesickness/adjusting thing, or perhaps not finding work. It has been such an uphill climb to get the residency and now selling the house, i can't imagine wanting to come back and then through the whole thing again!!!! :eek

Would really be interested in hearing others experiences :nice1

[Lukas]

...I my case I did the same. Went there three times with my PR, then every time coming back to Romania. Long stories
I am not surpriesd a property and comercial Lawyer can't find work in NZ so easy. However there are plenty of oportunities for medium qualified technicians eventualy for mats teachers (native english speakers of course).

[Moorf]

If it doesn't work out here we'll just take 2 years to travel home :mrgreen:

In all seriousness, NZ hasn't managed to get under my skin ENOUGH yet for me to call this my permanent home and that I'm never going back. We've made the move, got our PR and been through all that stress etc so we're gonna make a damn good go of it but if it doesn't work out I for one certainly wouldn't persist in trying to make it work - I'd be off out and looking for somewhere else! :nice1

In fact, I find it far better to think "right, we'll live here for a few years, see how it goes and then take stock and see if we're staying" rather than "right, we're here and we can't go back / won't go back".

[Diny]

In fact, I find it far better to think "right, we'll live here for a few years, see how it goes and then take stock and see if we're staying" rather than "right, we're here and we can't go back / won't go back".


Too true !!!!!

Been here many times before and for hubby we've 'come home' .... but who knows how we'll feel further down the line.

We've decided to come out here and give it a go. We have given ourselves a ball-park figure of 2 years before we'll even consider discussing how we ALL feel and see whether to stay, return to the UK or whatever.

Only been here for 2 weeks this time so it would be too stupid to even think about anything other than 'getting sorted' for now. I've always loved NZ but I love the UK just that little bit more (buttoning up the flak jacket as I write that).

Who knows how any of us will feel later on. It's pretty good at the moment though.

Diny

[Mildred]

Well I was feeling very postive that we could make things work out in NZ until I logged on this morning.

What has disturbed me so much??????

Well there are two separate threads which mention bin bags :roll: I'm starting to get scared now. At the moment I've got a cupboard full of Lidl's extra strong bin bags which are fantastic for wrapping e-bay stuff with and strong enough to deter even the most determined seagull. How on earth would I cope in NZ worrying about when the next bin bag was going to be put on the table? I'm never going to take my bin bags for granted again. Do you think there should be a new question on the EOI saying on a scale of 1-10 how much do you value your bin bags :laugh

Do you think this is why Pleccy keeps returning back to the UK - to stock up on bin bags. Now just how many could you fit into a container ;)

[Moorf]

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Don't worry Frances, you can get your fix of non-council bin bags too :nice1

Perhaps you could put your rare Lidl ones on Trademe for use for us Brits who are still avidly selling stuff on Ebay UK??! :laugh

Oh, and I hope they're certified NZ Gull safe too (surely there must be a little label on them somewhere to this effect?!) - little beggars here - ask Tanya - she saw one fly off with my bacon buttie which it nicked off my plate as I was about to tuck into it :wah

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

[Moorf]

So, we presently have HMS Bisto sailing from Dover and HMS Bin Bags and HMS Walkers Crisps being loaded at Tilbury :laugh :laugh :laugh

[Michelle and Richard]

Jade

You have real uphill battle with no PR and work visa you will struggle to get an offer, the legal market here is very small compared to the UK and it seems to be a case of getting to know people and then hoping a job will follow but where does that leave you now ???? I think the answer is doing what my husband is doing and that is getting relevant work experience as in he was a litigation lawyer in the UK and now he is doing liability insurance work not the same but he works with all the law firms and is getting relevant NZ experience. He isn't admitted over here as he is still doing the exams but he is getting that valuble NZ experience,

I feel for you its so b****y frustrating that kiwi lawyers walk into well paid jobs in London and elswehere with no requalifiction whilst we spend $$$$$$ to get qualified here and still have an uphill battle to get work.

I dont like to suggest this but have you looked at Oz, you may get recognition over there on the trans tasman agreement and there is definitely more work plus if you are under 30 you can go on a working holiday visa. The work experience you get over there may be more valued here alowing you to return. We certainly found it easier Richard even got job offers whilst still in the UK but being considerably older than 30 we struggled with visas and law firms couldn't sponsor him.

I really do wish you well but it really does frustrate you that NZ can't keep its own skilled people and sometimes seems to be so obstructive at attracting new ones.

Anyway in reply to the original part of this post no we wouldn't go back but sometimes I could scream in frustration.

Michelle

[Mildred]

So, we presently have HMS Bisto sailing from Dover and HMS Bin Bags and HMS Walkers Crisps being loaded at Tilbury

No - the bin bags will sail from Ramsgate.

Any chance of sending some cucumbers back as part of this trade agreement ;)

Sorry - I've just hijacked this thread. Where were we?

[Lukas]

Bloody English humour. Just answer the questions or give your opinions straight

[Mildred]

?????

[Jade]

Jade

You have real uphill battle with no PR and work visa you will struggle to get an offer, the legal market here is very small compared to the UK and it seems to be a case of getting to know people and then hoping a job will follow but where does that leave you now ???? I think the answer is doing what my husband is doing and that is getting relevant work experience as in he was a litigation lawyer in the UK and now he is doing liability insurance work not the same but he works with all the law firms and is getting relevant NZ experience. He isn't admitted over here as he is still doing the exams but he is getting that valuble NZ experience,

I feel for you its so b****y frustrating that kiwi lawyers walk into well paid jobs in London and elswehere with no requalifiction whilst we spend $$$$$$ to get qualified here and still have an uphill battle to get work.

I dont like to suggest this but have you looked at Oz, you may get recognition over there on the trans tasman agreement and there is definitely more work plus if you are under 30 you can go on a working holiday visa. The work experience you get over there may be more valued here alowing you to return. We certainly found it easier Richard even got job offers whilst still in the UK but being considerably older than 30 we struggled with visas and law firms couldn't sponsor him.

I really do wish you well but it really does frustrate you that NZ can't keep its own skilled people and sometimes seems to be so obstructive at attracting new ones.

Anyway in reply to the original part of this post no we wouldn't go back but sometimes I could scream in frustration.

Michelle


Thanks Michelle for the Advice.
Actually, I got PR approved in principle end of last week and need to go back to UK soon to get the passport stamp but I have the letter from NZIS London which I can show prospective employers. I got good points for my general legal experience of over 13 years on the EOI application. I was admitted here 2 weeks ago after 3 yrs of sitting exams. I chose NZ because I know the place and love it. It's cost me a lot of time and money working towards getting this far. Whilst going through that process I had a lot of encouragement from people here informing me that I had great skills and would not have a problem getting work. That seems to be the case, but the problem is trying to get NZ employers understand that I have a transferable skill. I am even offering to take on a lesser role and lesser salary. Not meaning to be direct, I'm beginning to see how small minds of people here can be. It also makes me sad to think that the Kiwi and Australian lawyers come to the UK with little or no experience almost and always get good work without the same discrimination. But I will battle on a bit longer.How can I go back to the UK and say that NZ didn't work for me when I did not get the chance? That is the question I cannot answer.

[Jo and Andy]

Pleecy

Still interested to hear why you have sea-sawed back and forth, what is it that keeps drawing you back to the UK, and then back to NZ. Perhaps you just need dual nationality.


I appreciate it when people put threads on, on why they are moving back, I feel it prepares me for a lot of the feelings that I might go through.

I am looking at it hopefully as a one off move, must give myself at least 2 years before I can assess the situation, and if I can to get to the stage where I won't have to re-emigrate if I decide the UK is definately not for me.

[Michelle and Richard]

Hi Jade

Like you, we know and love the place but you summed it up well it is discrimination surely there should be a reciprocal aggreement but there isn't and we have made our choices but its so hard when you study for years only to come here and have to start again. Perhaps this is why there are so few UK lawyers here because career wise its a huge backward step. Thing is I am pretty sure that a kiwi lawyer with UK experience will be viewed as an asset by NZ firms hence the adverts in the press trying to attract them back, damn shame they cant see UK lawyers in the same light.

Well done with the PR, I wish I could refer you to somebody who would help you but unfortunately I can't.

Michelle

[DLW]

Pleccy2000,

How's the synopsis coming along?

We are still interested!

DLW

[Jo and Andy]

Yeah, it would be really useful to understand why you are going back again.

Thanks

[Carl and Liz]

Hi Jade and Michelle,

I am a land use/resource managment attorney in Los Angeles. We're planning to move to Wellington in a few months, so I'm interested in what you guys have to say about finding a legal job.

Was the not being certified to practice in NZ a factor in the job search? Do you think things will change now that you are certified? Also, I've heard that, in general, doing temp or contract work is a way to get NZ experience and you can then move into a permanent position - is this true in the law business? Did potential employers grant you interviews or would they not even consider you if you didn't show NZ experience on your CV?

Any insight/advice you guys have would be helpful.

Thanks,
Liz

[Timbo]

Calm down Lukas, its only a forum.

[Michelle and Richard]

Liz

I am not the lawyer its Richard, he struggles because he did defendant PI in the UK and its all covered by ACC here although there is a market with a few niche firms they were not interested becuase he isn't admitted here and therefore cannot go to court. The only law firm I have seen advertising outside of NZ is one large commercial and they seemed to be targetting NZ lawyers trying (and I would think failing) to lure them away from big bucks in London.

Richard worked for a top firm in the UK but it seems to count for nothing I am afraid its do the exams and get whatever related experience work once here.

I don't want to sound negative but its a real uphill battle for lawyers coming from outside NZ

There is also no way around the 6 exams although you might get an exemption from the ethics course if you have been qualified long enough.

I would PM Richard if you want any more specific advice

Michelle

[Jade]

Hello Liz

I was admitted last month after 2 yrs of exams (6 subjects) as I studied through a full time job. Although I have substantial UK experience in commercial/property, I am finding difficult to breakthrough here. Whenever I apply for senior posts, I am told I haven't NZ experience and when I target the junior post, there say i'm too senior for the role - so can't win.
At the moment, I am doing voluntary work for a Sole Practitioner just to get the NZ experience started. Meanwhile, I left a well paid job in the UK. I am not sure but I think that if I came as a junior lawyer, would have stood a better chance. Unfortunately, it was not something that I realised till I started job hunting. What fraustrates me the most is that the firms do not seem to understand that legal skills could be easily transferable. But you might be lucky.
Jade

[Glenda]

Hi Jade,

We have only been in NZ less than two months and have ongoing UK legal matters to deal with. Hubby is in the UK at the moment overseeing matters but I am here in NZ. I am a partner in a business, a director of a company, the owner of a mortgaged house and part owner of our home which we are trying to sell. We have found in our case that some solicitors/financial institutions in the UK require the solicitor in NZ acting on your behalf to have worked or qualified in the UK. You can imagine the trouble we had finding one.

There must be many expats still with houses to sell, UK legal matters to sort out that require or would benefit from the services of a UK qualified solicitor. It is a shame NZ legal practitioners do not see this.

[Lukas]

...I think you have better chances by going back in UK, finding a job in a Law Firm located in London with branches in NZ...then comming in NZ trough them (of course supposing you are are professionally good enough).
Comming in NZ just like this as Mr no-one coming from no-where you are risking to lose time and automatically to deprofessionalise.

[Smiler]

Jade

I'm not sure if this helps but one of the goooogle ads on this page is for

b****r it's disappeared but I think it's www.thelawyer.com (http://www.thelawyer.com/) and there are jobs on there in OZ and NZ. I'm no legal HR person, so don't know if it will suit your qualifications.

But don't give up, can you do something else to help the money situation, whilst still seeking work in your profession?

Chin up
Deborah

[Hannah]

Hi Jade,
sorry to be naive, but what do you mean by "I've got PR in principle but just need to go back to the UK to get my passport stamp".
Sorry to change the thread but I'm really intruiged...
hannah

[Jade]

Hi Hannah,

At the time I wrote that post, I was on holiday in NZ with a visitors permit and had already received the letter from NZIS stating that I had been granted PR and requesting I forwarded my passport to them within 6 months. I had not sent my passport at that time. I hope this clarifies.
Jade

[Jade]

...I think you have better chances by going back in UK, finding a job in a Law Firm located in London with branches in NZ...then comming in NZ trough them (of course supposing you are are professionally good enough).
Comming in NZ just like this as Mr no-one coming from no-where you are risking to lose time and automatically to deprofessionalise.


Thank you lukas, but my experience from UK is without doubt very good. I worked for medium sized provincial firms and that is more than enough to get a decent job here. It would not be practical just returning to UK to find work in bigger firms so that I can be accepted here. Thank you for the advice but that for me, would be going backwards. I have already moved here.

[Lukas]

...I stayed in Auckland few weeks in the same flat with a Scotish University lecturer...who came like you. For me was quite difficult to understand why someone with a house and a 30k GBP would leave everithing behind with the hope to obtain a teaching position in NZ paied with much less than half.
...Despite the desperate need for experienced IT teachers all the immigration sites are advertising the guy (apart from few promisses) in three months time didn't obtain anything.

[Jade]

...I stayed in Auckland few weeks in the same flat with a Scotish University lecturer...who came like you. For me was quite difficult to understand why someone with a house and a 30k GBP would leave everithing behind with the hope to obtain a teaching position in NZ paied with much less than half.
...Despite the desperate need for experienced IT teachers all the immigration sites are advertising the guy (apart from few promisses) in three months time didn't obtain anything.

Lukas, it was not all about money for me. I came to NZ because I found it to be quite a beautiful country plus I was keen to leave behind a hard won career for a more stress free life. I am not too worried about how much I will be able to earn here so far it would be sufficient to live a comfortable lifestyle in my terms. I do not see the point of earning a more than average salary if I cannot enjoy it - that was my life in England.
Jade

[Moorf]

You beat me to it Jade :clap

[chips]

Lukas......Think VERY carefully about coming to NZ. The streets are NOT paved with gold, it's not like America was in the 1910's- come over and find a fortune.
I would hazard a guess that 80% of people come here to NZ for the change in life style ,and all that entails- very few come here to get more money than they had back in the uk. ( although i think someone on here has)
Again Lukas ,please think carefully if it's money you are coming here for, to save possible disapointment in the future.
Kindest regards - Chips

[Lukas]

...Of course is not about money...however we may like it or not the job you have is often dictating the life style you are going to have. In NZ I had to discover soon that at list in my case without a professional position I won't have the life stile I was looking for. Aniway the life is an individual experience and I don't condamn you for your choice. I just wanted to give my oppinion form an "insider" perspective...otherwise what are all this forums for?
...To my surprise I discovered soon that for most of Kiwis the life means three things: work work and again work...hard one. Altough I was given PR straight within the last three years I had to come back in Romania three times to have a bit of rest and a bit of lifestile.
I will give it another try by this springht.

[Avalon]

I would hazard a guess that 80% of people come here to NZ for the change in life style ,and all that entails- very few come here to get more money than they had back in the uk. ( although i think someone on here has)
Kindest regards - Chips

Make that 2! :p

I Know - Bizarre! But one of the things that attracted us was the lower taxes and the ability to accumulate assets without being constantly taxed on them (No stamp duty - no capital gains on selling a second home, etc).

We already had a fantastic lifestyle in the UK. We lived in (imho) one of the most beautiful parts of the country, and the view from the house is not that disimilar from the one we are buying here. Many of the things people do come to NZ for, we had in the UK. But we would have struggled to get a good financial base behind us. It was something we were already working towards, but felt coming here may make the difference.

We also wanted my Parents lousy pensions to go that bit further. Here it will. It will still be tight - but not as tight.

Now just incase anyone gets the wrong idea - Ive never bought designer anything. Actually - I tell a lie - Ive just bought a Designer dress in a 2nd hand shop! We dont have the latest gadgets - though we did blow a bit on a 42" plasma TV, but our old one had died anyway, and ive been wanting one for ages - just couldnt afford it till now!

[chips]

nice one, whatever rocks your boat Avalon.

[Miffy]

Well said Chips.
I've taken (like many) a LARGE pay cut to come to NZ for a BETTER lifestyle.
Money isn't everything and you certainly won't make a fotune over here, but I'm defiently enjoying myself and hae a richer, happier life, now and ahead of me. :)

[Avalon]

Miffy,

We also had to take a large paycut - but it didnt take us long to find out that Alan had been ripped-off/discriminated against because we were not Kiwi's. So, on the basis that we knew the value of his experience - we went shopping for better offers, and got 3! All of which would pay nearly the old UK rate!

You CAN make decent money over here. Its just not true to say that it can't be done. OK, so not everyone can earn big bucks, but then thats the same anywhere. We were earning good money compared to most people in the UK, and we are here too.

I honestly do not beleive that you have to earn less to be happy. What you may have to do is spend less than you earn! (someone on here has the sig line "he who earns $100 and spends $90 is richer than he who earns $200 and spends $205").

I can and have been very happy on no money, and ive been miserable and very poor while earning very good money. However , I also manage to be pretty contented and happy while earning a decent and fair wage. Its just wrong to pay a brit less than a Kiwi for doing the same job. The same as its wrong to pay men and women different wages for doing the same job.

Any company will pay its employees the least it can get away with. (Sometimes its called exploitation - why do we accept it?) It doesnt mean we have to take it if theres a better choice elsewhere. I feel (imho only - its just a feeling - not based on ANY factual evidence - just what ive picked up) that theres quite a con going on in convincing migrants that they will have to take massive paycuts to come here. Whther its beacause you "have no NZ experience" or "we cant afford high wages here". Fine - we have no NZ experience - but hey - we have UK experience and by and large - if you want to be a "world player" you need that experience - so pay for it! In Alan's job for example - NZ experience just means you know the worst way of doing the job. UK experience means you may have some idea of how its SUPPOSED to be done! :uhoh

NZ has apparently got a booming economy and a surplus of cash. Why should the shareholders be the only ones getting a cut. The workers should be fairly and equitably paid. (Imho)

I know this is a really unpopular stance but I hope one day that migrants will get paid a fair wage for doing the job and not get talked into "necesarily" earning lower wages than they deserve.

[Moorf]

Avalon - I totally hear what you are saying, we too came here for the lifestyle and not the money and, so far, we're happy with that decision although it has been tough at times (too much £ / $ comparisons initially!).

However, with regards to the salaries it really does depend on the type of job you are doing with regards to whether or not you'll have to take a massive pay cut or get a better salary in NZ than in UK.

There is no way that we would get the same income here as we did in the UK - a NZ co. would need to pay Woz $260k a year to come close - and he was on a UK I.T contractor rate that could easily have been increased (he kept it same for nearly 3 yrs as it was a recurring contract and work from home so didn't want to rock the boat). Perhaps in Auckland people are getting these salaries but certainly not down here in Chch. As for my occupation, I would basically get the same here per annum in $ as £ so again, big pay cut.

However, I do know of people who have a trade or who are in nursing / teaching who are getting better money and conditions.

But, at the end of the day, we knew what were getting into, knew we'd be living on less but as "big salary" wasn't top of the "must have" list and I am not working fulltime, we are happy with our decision and are slowly learning to live on less and to save instead of the "must have now" scenario. Having said that, whilst we earn less we actually own most of what we have here instead of big mortgages and loans so that helps too. :)

Overall, I would say that the salaries here are pretty dire, and even locals I've spoken to are beginning to demand more $ in their paycheck. And I too believe that some immigrants do get paid less than their fellow Kiwi colleagues - well, we actually know this as a fact as this subject was raised at Woz's company (small co. but almost half of the employees are now Brits!).

Hope that makes sense!

[Miffy]

I hear what you are saying Avalon (and others) and after 3 months of being here Ian has just had a pay review at his company to 'realign' him to what he actually is worth. He is now on about the same as the UK :)

For me however I used to work in the city of london, as a risk manager, I can't do what i used to do here as there is not the investment markets over here, and I never thought of coming over to NZ as a career progression. I have brushed up on my old Secretary / PA skills and gone back to being an adminstrator and to be fair I'm getting a fairly decent wage comparable to the UK (but not london wages, as that would be an unfair comparison), so that was a defo pleasent surprise.

Talking to kiwis and they say they are under paid and its one of the main reasons the under 30's head off to Aus, US or UK for better pay. After a number of years they come home wanting the quality of life you can get here.

[Avalon]

Absolutely Moorf!

As with everything - the variables are endless. I know of one IT contractor getting about $180k. Alan did look at it but decided he wanted to be employed for a while rather than contract - but it would have given us more money.

Alan would need to earn at least $150k to actually equate to his uK salary (taking into account company cars, and other perks which you dont get here). With his yearly bonus - he wuld get that (IF he gets the bonus of course). We did a lot of comparisons using sites such as Candle. We also just plain faced asked people what they were earning! (cheeky- yes- but what the hell!)

So, Alan is earning something like what he was on in the UK, BUT he is paying much less tax!!!! So we are in real terms earning MORE! We cannot be the only ones who are actually going to be better off here?????

Coming to NZ means you get to keep substantially MORE of the money you work for. We also knew what we were getting and were quite prepared to take the cut. Then we started finding out what was going on. Apparently the lady who hire Alan was dancing around the office because "she had got this really great guy dead cheap!". It was pointed out to her that if he was that great - it wouldnt take long for him to leave! But the theory is that if they hire a migrant - they have got your loyalty for at least a year :mad:

I was never going to see quite such an increase in "lifestyle" factors, because as I said - I already had it.

Also, I still make £/$ comparisons - painful though it is :( Will I ever get over it????

[Avalon]

I hear what you are saying Avalon (and others) and after 3 months of being here Ian has just had a pay review at his company to 'realign' him to what he actually is worth. He is now on about the same as the UK :)


Wow, I am impressed! :clap :clap :clap

Telecom just would not do that. The reasoning was that (get this) we cannot jump your wages up by that much. If we had paid you a fair rate in the first place - we could have done it. But hey - tough! (At the same time as employing a Kiwi without his skills and paying him the going rate and expecting Alan to be above him).

Who does Ian work for?????

[Moorf]

Apparently the lady who hire Alan was dancing around the office because "she had got this really great guy dead cheap!".



Sounds familiar. And alot of immigrants, without knowing it mostly, do take the pay that is offered initially. Perhaps there is an element of "they need the job to get the visa" - I guess as an employer it's cheap labour. And you only need to stay in that job for 3 months, get your PR, then leave.

It is also somewhat of a mystery to some other immigrants, from countries other than, say, the UK, who can not understand why people would come over for less money - my new hairdresser is from Prague and she finds it very strange that we would want to come here and not stay in the UK and earn lots of £. In fact, I felt a bit embarrassed :o as it did feel like I was saying "pah! who needs money, I want lifestyle" then over we all come, buy nice houses for cash or with little mortgages, buy our own cars and have no loans/credit cards etc. We don't know how lucky we are to have been able to make this lifestyle choice. Obviously, for everyone it's not a change of lifestyle entirely, we don't all come out here and work on small farms (ha I Wish!), but from a poll done on here a while back, most seem to come into the country with a bit of cash.

[Moorf]

Great news Miffy - and down there in Dunedin I bet you get more house / land for your bucks :cheers :)

[veronica]

Have got to say that I think NZ is well overdue for some union action on behalf of a lot of the work force. think it will be a healthier economy for it in the long run. I think also that that would help the drain of the younger uni grads and encourage them to comeback here quicker if they were to get a reasonably comparable salary.

[GeorgeM]

I don't think that much could be done to stop the flow of young people out of NZ - it has become such a right of passage that regardless of how we tinker with tax/benefits/student loans most who go will still do so - they want to experience the big wide world outside of these islands. For us well travelled europeans who could get to two dozen different countries in less than a couple of hours we need to recognise how little travelling most NZers have done and how attractive an OE is for the young.

The big challenge is to tempt NZers back, and not to stay overseas in a country where their skills are in as much demand as down here. IMHO one of the best ways to do this is to allow them to hang on to as much of their earnings as possible rather than handing large wads of it over to the government to spend it on whatever social engineering scheme they come up with next.

[Diny]

My Kiwi hubby left NZ over 20 years ago and apart from holidays has only just come back to live.

He said he left because this country had nothing to offer him between the ages of 20 to 40, and he says that he will strongly encourage our boys to do the same.

He says it's a great country for kids and families but for the 'inbetween' age group it's a let down.

I tend to agree with him - but I wonder whether that is because I think this country has nothing to offer young adults or whether I'm a dyed in the wool traveller who can't understand anybody who doesn't get out there and have a look at the world (as long as they are able to do so).

Diny

[Lukas]

"The big challenge is to tempt NZers back, and not to stay overseas in a country where their skills are in as much demand as down here."

Oh...George...Yeah if the NZers you are talking about are carpenters or plumbers theyr skills are in big demand back home...but if they are astrofisicists, or art historians or talented designers or whatever

[Jo and Andy]

Having discussed this area with my husand lots, the fact that we will be earning less money, he pointed out that altough he may take a pay cut it will effectively be an increase as he is on a negative tax code at the moment.

We look for the safer lifestyle for Rhiannon to grow up in, space, facilities, support, opportunities.

[Avalon]

Having discussed this area with my husand lots, the fact that we will be earning less money, he pointed out that altough he may take a pay cut it will effectively be an increase as he is on a negative tax code at the moment.


OUCH! :wah :wah :wah

[Miffy]

What is a negative tax code?
Surely you can't paying more (or the same) than you are earning ????

[Avalon]

The tax code (pr the munber part of it) says what your "tax free personal allowance is.

So 475L means you have a £4750 tax free allowance.

The number goes down for several reasons.; company car and other benefits etc. Alans was at about £1000 when we left. A zero tax code would mean you are paying tax on every penny tou earn (like in NZ).

Thats as far as I can go. Dont know what happens if it goes negative, if anything. Where tax is concerned - my head hurts just trying to work it out !

Does that help at all????

[macs gold]

Jade

The advantage kiwi professionals have when they go to the UK is that there is such a large temping market in London,. This allows UK employers to "try before they buy" if you like, and often a kiwi accountant or lawyer will work all over town until he/she finds a good permanent role.

The same opportunity doesn't exist in NZ, due to the economics but also due to employment laws that mean it is difficult to employ temps except for basic covering leave and for specific projects, etc. For example every temp contract in NZ needs to be for a specific timeframe and purpose, and if it isn't the employee is classified as permanent.

On the whole it is a fairly good system, but probably takes away flexibility for the employer which might encourage them to take more risks with their recruitment.

All I can suggest is to think outside the box in order to get your NZ experience. How about:
- offering to work for free for four weeks to prove yourself (assuming it looks like a good organisation)
- doing voluntary advisory work for something like the Citizen advise bureau (they would really like to get your type of skills), or one of the major charity organisations such as Methodist Mission, Presbyterian Support, or whatever.

Anyway, all the best - I'm sure something will come along soon!

[Jade]

Jade

The advantage kiwi professionals have when they go to the UK is that there is such a large temping market in London,. This allows UK employers to "try before they buy" if you like, and often a kiwi accountant or lawyer will work all over town until he/she finds a good permanent role.

The same opportunity doesn't exist in NZ, due to the economics but also due to employment laws that mean it is difficult to employ temps except for basic covering leave and for specific projects, etc. For example every temp contract in NZ needs to be for a specific timeframe and purpose, and if it isn't the employee is classified as permanent.

On the whole it is a fairly good system, but probably takes away flexibility for the employer which might encourage them to take more risks with their recruitment.

All I can suggest is to think outside the box in order to get your NZ experience. How about:
- offering to work for free for four weeks to prove yourself (assuming it looks like a good organisation)
- doing voluntary advisory work for something like the Citizen advise bureau (they would really like to get your type of skills), or one of the major charity organisations such as Methodist Mission, Presbyterian Support, or whatever.

Anyway, all the best - I'm sure something will come along soon!

Thanks for the handy advice Macs Gold. I am off to the UK at the weekend for 4 weeks to take care of a few matters (I'm not running away yet!). The plan is to return to NZ before the end of September and I had in mind offering to work for free for a couple of months. Would just need to find out what firms or organisations would be happy to proceed via this route.
Jade