[foolsgold99]

I've just realised that I've been in the country for 100 days, today is my 101st day here, so I thought I'd do a post with my impressions of Auckland so far.

People say the housing market in Auckland is expensive, and I guess it is by NZ standards. But in simple cash terms it's way cheaper than anywhere in the UK, I'd guess that would apply to the rest of Europe and North America too. Wages here can be lower, so I'd guess we are paying out about the same percentage of income as before. We'd have struggled to buy something nice on 1 salary, we were able to put a deposit of $170,000 on the house which made it affordable. Out of Auckland is way cheaper.

The process of buying houses is really easy here, similar to scotland I guess, you see a house, you make a bid, you agree a price, you have a building report, you go unconditional. At this stage you're locked in. No backing out, no gazundering or gazumping. There is plenty on the market.

Unlike the UK or Aus, there is no taxes when you buy a property, this can save 10,000's of dollars.

Selling a house seems to be way more expensive than in the UK, Estate agent fees are 6% of sale value, compared to 1% in the UK. There doesn't appear to be any real compition based on price, but more and more people are selling their own homes without agents, this should help drive prices down longer term.

Rental prices appear to be on the way down, due to oversupply, too many people have piled into a buy to let boom, that's turning into a bust. Expect to pay $300 for a decent rental.

Buying a car is a doddle, when you buy a car, the company selling it must sell it with a full 6 months WOF. They do all the paperwork for you, and pay to have it registered in your name. Traffic in Auckland is equivalent to any major city throughout the world. People complain about it, but only because they haven't seen worse. In my experience rush hour in Auckland is way easier that London, Paris or Los Angeles.

Food

Is decent enough, not too expensive. sometimes you pay more for an "luxary" imported item. An example is Avacados, during the local Avo season, you'll get 3 for a dollar. Out of season (like now) they are $4 each. My advice is to grow your own. We have lemons, grapefruit and oranges in the garden. I'm going to plant peppers & tomatos this weekend.

Weather.

Much better than the UK, average temps in Auckland are similar to southern france. I've lived through winter, and not seen a single day where I've had ice on my car. Morning can be a little cold, but when the sun comes up it's very pleasent. I'm assured it gets to over 30 degrees in the summer.


Health System

Can't speak for the public sector stuff cause we've not used it, we went private for Sals pregnancy, everything we've seen has been excellent.

Race Relations

Bit of a stumbling block here, New Zealand is the most racist country in the world. The whole Maori thing is beyond a joke, white folks don't seen to like them. Maori seem to resent white folks. There is a large group of Maori with speratist agendas that will tear the nation apart. There are even separate racce based maori seats in parliment, that only maori can vote for. Principles like "one person, one vote" don't seem to apply here. They are also looking for special maori seats on local council, and other public bodies. NZ is the only country in the world that enshrines racist principles in it's system of goverment.

THere is an election next month, a change of goverment will see an end to most of this. Wait and see.

Tons more I could write, but I'll leave it there for now.

I've not been homesick at all yet, never given the place a second thought to be honest, perhaps this'll come latter. But right now I'm loving NZ. Only 994 days till citizenship

[Cardiff Irons]

Great post. Exactly the sort of information needed for a wavering, shall we/shan't we?, sit on the fence type individual like me :mrgreen:

[gil]

:clap :clap :clap Hi Foolsgold99, thanks for the great post. As you saw, Cardiff Irons (my OH) is wavering a bit, so it's really helpful to hear such a realistic appraisal of life in NZ , esp covering points like house and car. We're looking at Auckland too, personally feel drawn to Howick/Botany area as there are v good schools that come recommended and with four children, that's pretty essential for us.
We're about to put the house on the market, once Irons stops wavering and beats the estate agent into submission on commission fees haggle.
Just out of interest, what do you do workwise, if that's not too blunt a question?
Gil

[Lukas]

....May I ask you why do you need NZ citizenship ?

[Paul and Linda]

Hi FG,
Only 10 more days to your eleventy first then.

[foolsgold99]

....May I ask you why do you need NZ citizenship ?

Don't need, Want.

[Anita & Marco]

Thanks for your great post.
The one thing that worries me most - did worry me from the beginning is the racist thing. It is something not a lot of people seem to worry about before they move to NZ. But I do. Even in Holland I see racism getting worse than it was - for a lot of reasons and really would like to live in a country where everyone is equal. I realise that this is only the case in Utopia.

Thanks anyway,
Anita

[Lukas]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

[Anita & Marco]

Why not wanting NZ Citizenship, when you plan to stay in NZ and make your living there?
Anita

[Mildred]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

Sometimes Lucas we want things in life that don't require an explanation.

[shagen]

Good post FG. I second all that you wrote with the exception of NZ being the most racist country in the world.

I think it is merely a perception. We come from Malaysia and the government in Malaysia runs in a similar manner. Only, they call it positive discrimination.

If we Malaysians look at NZ, it is a lot more tolerant than Malaysia in terms of racism. I feel discriminated against in Malaysia and I am a Malaysian but living in Wellington, as a foreigner I feel as part of New Zealand!

Shagen

[Carol]

We have just applied for citizenship after being here for 9 years.
I feel we now have the right to be classed as New Zealand citizens.


I really dont think we are in the most racist of countries - I've seen a lot worse on my home turf.
That said ........ I doubt I will ever be classed a "Kiwi" by other kiwis.....

tough luck - their loss not mine.

[sarahw]

Foolsgold - good post & I enjoyed reading it but I, like others, totally disagree with the race relations part.

From what I have seen, the relations with Maori are good. I have friends that are Maori so found the bit about whites not liking Maori and Maori resenting whites quite offensive. Also the bit about seats on Government - too B***** right! We came into their country like we have in so many other countries & changed things - so why shouldn't they have a say in what happens to their country???? rather than letting us Brits colonise so many countries and lose out on the culture & heritage of those countries. I myself, will be ensuring that I and any children I have learn Te Reo and learn all about the heritage of the country.

I have seen the most fantastic race relations ever here. Much better than in the UK where there are race crimes with people being threatened and attacked - I have a Pakistani friend who ended up in hospital the other week a race hate crime in London (I certainly can't see a Maori beating up a Pakeha for similar reasons!). It makes me proud to live in NZ - I don't know where your perception is coming from - if this is an Auckland thing (I don't know since I don't live up there but I'm sure not) or something you've seen on the news such as the court cases about land rights but the Maori are a lovely, friendly race. I work with Maori community groups and children and never have I felt anything but friendliness and warmth towards me and other Pakeha.

I live in a suburb in Porirua City, it is where a lot of Pacific Islanders have settled and I see no race issues there. There are Samoans, Fijians, Tongans, Maori & Pakeha etc. all living in harmony. I go to the market quite often held early on a Saturday morning & I'm certainly in the minority there being white but I never feel threatened or like there are race issues/tensions.

I hope your perceptions get proved wrong in time. Maybe getting to know some Maori people and might change your mind.

[Carol]

hmmm....got to say I agree Sarah..


Love that Saturday morning market - never been for ages.
Maybe next week.....but how do I avoid that yummy fried dough thingy the Islanders make????? yuuuuuuum but the CALORIES!!!!!!

OR the Maori potato bread - equally yum!!!!

[GeorgeM]

I think that the big problem with maori/pakeha relations is that there is no clear definition of what maori means.

If someone can show that they have some maori in their makeup, however small, then they are classified as maori. This is the only reason why we get a nonesensical figure quoted for the percentage of maori in NZ.

It has suited Labour, especially over the past 20 years or so, to give credience to this shonky statistic as it has been used to support policies which discriminate in favour of a solid tranch of their voters out of all proportion to need.

If the qualification for being classed as British was a loose as being classified as maori then I suggest that 95%+ of NZers would be "British".

I find it quite amazing that someone with a partially maori grandmother and three other totally pakeha grandparents can be thrown into the pot as Maori, seemingly ignoring that most of their heritage is from elsewhere. My mum's father was 100% scottish, and I am proud of this part of my heritage, but it would be a nonsense to call me a scot on the basis of this. And even more of a nonsense to call my children that (my wife has no scottish blood). And their children etc etc. Yet this is exactly what happens with the term maori - if either of my girls end up marrying someone who is a fraction maori then my grandchildren miraculously become Maoris - not 'part-maori', or 'of maori descent', but Maori (generally to the exclusion of all else).

I suppose if my 25% scottishness qualifed me for special treatment in a number of different places and a share in a windfall for the land my clan lost during the highland clearances I might just start wearing the kilt, eating haggis and saying how tuneful I find the bagpipes - I'm sure that this is how we get so many in NZ on the maori gravy train, many of whom I bet never knew what their river or mountain was until the dollar signs started appearing in the papers.

Even prominent Maori are equally non-Maori - Pita Sharpels of the Maori Party has a 100% Irish father, and Donna Awatere Huata has a swiss mother. Yet they call themselves Maori, not half maori and half british or half maori and half swiss, and generally ignore everything about the non-maori part of their background (which for Donna isn't too hot as her father was a convicted murderer). Isn't this showing disrespect for the rest of their whakapapa?

When the maori played the Lions I wondered how many would be MORE qualified to play for the British Lions if the blood line qualification were the same. I would bet it was more than half the team.

For goodness sake, everyone, wake up. Getting here first meant something 200 years ago - being able to show some direct blood back to pre-european times should count for nothing today - New Zealand is a predominantly pakeha country and is what it is because of that. If it hadn't been colonised by europeans it is likely that today it would just be a large version of Fiji or Samoa etc.

NZ today is largely what pakeha made it, and is predominently british in character. Yet it is permitted (and even encouraged by many) to disrespect this and to play this down whenever possible whilst elevating anything non-british almost to icon status. How can we give so much respect to kapahakas and maori protocol (to the extent of forcing women civil servents to sit at the back of ceremonies because 'thats the way maori do it') whilst badmouthing so much of the heritage of so many and even saying that the NZ flag should change because the Union Flag in the corner is out of date. If this visible display of where modern NZ came from is out of date then so is 99% of the medieval maori culture which seems to be rammed down our throats at every opportunity. Is it really necessary to start so many events with a string of hakas? Am I the only one who went from being awed by this (the first couple of time) to being bored by its ubiquitousness? Wouldn't it be nice to have the occasional school concert where you didn't have to be shouted at first!!!

Clinging on to the current paradigm helps few New Zealanders - just those who have a vested interest in maori society as it was in 1840 being preserved. It does nothing for urban maori today whose needs are far more aligned with poor whites that with the iwi aristocrats who want to preserve a world of hangis, hakas and taniwhas. It's as if some English were trying to maintain the hierarchy and social customs of the times of Jane Austin.

It's time to move on.

[blue]

Its great to hear how people are getting on and thanks for a informative post. Its a big help and inspiration to everyone still waiting to move.

[foolsgold99]

Bit of a stumbling block here, New Zealand is the most racist country in the world. The whole Maori thing is beyond a joke, white folks don't seen to like them. Maori seem to resent white folks. There is a large group of Maori with speratist agendas that will tear the nation apart. There are even separate racce based maori seats in parliment, that only maori can vote for. Principles like "one person, one vote" don't seem to apply here. They are also looking for special maori seats on local council, and other public bodies. NZ is the only country in the world that enshrines racist principles in it's system of goverment

Got quite a response, so I'm going to clarify exactly what I meant with that paragraph.

I was not having a go at Maori, or European people. I was giving my observations on the opinons that people seem to hold. This is from talking to people at work, listening to radio and reading the papers.

I think that the principles of democray are universal, For me, these principles have come through western civilisation, from Rome & Greece and the defining moments in the French and American reveloutions. "liberte, egalite, fraternite" and all that, the US bill of rights; "goverment of the people, by the people, for the people". These principles say that we are all brothers, and that each human is of the same value, regardless of race, sex and religion. These principles are deeply enshirned in me and guide me in all things I do.

In New Zealand, a lot of people are opposed to these principles.

I saw the leader of the Moari party on Tv the other day, saw that in NZ democray derives from the Treaty, and that goverment and power should flow from that.

This is used to justify a sepratist agenda. Some people say we are not all brothers, and that some people are the "hosts" and all others are the "guests" in this country. This is regardless of how long these people or their ancestors have been in the country. This is a road that leads to having different classes of citizenship. I don't want this, some people do.

This isn't about culture of hertiage, I fully support anyones rights to identify them selfs as memebers of any group. But I can't support this being extended into law and in the system of goverment of this country.

In 1948, the UN adopted the "universal declartion of human rights" New Zealand as a memeber should be bound by this.


Article 21
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

It speaks about equal suffrage, and that everyone has equal rights. This is not compatible to race based systems of goverment and special race based elections, and having race based representation on all public bodies.

The treaty is a historical document, and should be treated as such, it should have no relevance to the goverment of our country. the universal declartion of human rights, supersedes it

[GeorgeM]

I think that in reality you will find that the separtist agenda is only subscribed to by a comparatively small number of people. Unfortunately because of the smallness of NZ they get far more press than they would do in most other places. With a 60 mins news bulletin to fill each evening and only 4 million people to make the news it's not surprising that Tariana Terrier and her ilk are on the box a great deal whereas a similar sized pressure group in (for example) Australia or the UK would be hard pushed to get any airtime at all. The current situation of having maori only seats which are generally won by Labour but now threatend by the Maori party has raised the importance at least until the coalition is decided upon post-election.

Remember that 90-odd percent of the 10 or 15 or whatever percentage is quoted for 'Maori' is predominently european in background, culture and practice. Out of the small number who are not in this category the rump of separatist maoris is only probably a couple of tens of thousands at most. A noisy minority but a small minority none the less. Remember that polls have constantly shown that most "maori" do not support the Maori Party and the apartheid it espouses. Like the huge majority of all NZers - pakeha, maori, asians and any other groups you care to name - they want to move forward into the 21st century with a modern agenda rather than sit on the marae talking about how it was two hundred years ago.

[kiwidebs]

One of my fav ever Maori 'leaders' was a woman named (Dame) Whina Cooper. Her whole philosophy went something along the lines of we're all here now so lets learn to get along. She was an amazing woman who died a few years back at quite an age. She was def not for all the seperatist stuff. Most Maori people you meet are 'normal people' not radical or revolutionary, as usual it is the noisy minority that make themselves heard.

I like to take people as they come regardless of race or religion - I'll even talk to Australians :eek :eek

Debs

[Cardiff Irons]

I'll even talk to Australians :eek :eek

DebsSteady on.


;)

[Avalon]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

2 passports! There may be places you dont want to travel on a UK one????

[Avalon]

Also the bit about seats on Government - too B***** right! We came into their country like we have in so many other countries & changed things - so why shouldn't they have a say in what happens to their country????

They should have a say. However - why should they get two says? And if they do, why pretend its democratic?

Put another way - would it be acceptable for white brits to get a second vote in the UK for "White Only Seats"? Would it be acceptable for health and social housing to beavailable on a "whites only" basis in the UK because white brits are the indigenous people of the moment.

I truly beleive that any policy which gives one person a better "right" to public services or even a say in democracy based purely on the colour of thier skin is wrong.

And really - if as you say most of the Maori dont actuually feel this way - why do we need it in nZ?

I hope this makes sence - Im really trying to get my head round these issues in time for the election. I get to vote - and i feel quite unprepared for it. :eek

[baboonworld]

I love it when a thread spirals totally out of control/context.

Congrats foosgold for enjoying you 100+ days.

With regards to Maoris - I dont think that there are any true Maoris anymore (ie full blood and no interbreeding with other countries). I think the definition of a Maori is pretty much anyone with any Maori blood in them.

I several friends who are Maori (but with once parent english and other part Maori) one is an eight Chinese - but she would still class herself as Maori on any form where they ask your ethnicity - even though her Dad was born in the Uk.

[foolsgold99]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

So I can be a proper Kiwi and go and live in Aussie like the rest of them and get away from this bloody rain :laugh


Only 990 day to go :exit


ps,

only joking

[Gran]

By the way, everyone here has only one vote. Maori can choose if they want to vote in a Maori electorate or a normal one, when they register they choose which one, then they go along to the same poling place as everyone else, but are given a different form with different names on it.

[GeorgeM]

By the way, everyone here has only one vote. Maori can choose if they want to vote in a Maori electorate or a normal one, when they register they choose which one, then they go along to the same poling place as everyone else, but are given a different form with different names on it.

To be totally pedantic (wot, me ;) ?) , under MMP everyone has two votes - one for a constituancy MP and one for a party.

Also, I believe that if you qualify for inclusion on the Maori roll you get the choice periodically. Once you've chosen one way or another you have to stay with your choice until the next opportunity to change when you can switch to the other roll if you wish to.

Although the tiniest amount of Maori blood qualifies you for inclusion on the Maori roll if you wish you do have to have some Maori in your genes to get on - Ngai Tahu's senior geneologist was recently thrown off the roll when it was disclosed that he is 100% non-Maori.

[bob_the_engineer]

Hi George M

Quote

“Although the tiniest amount of Maori blood qualifies you for inclusion on the Maori roll if you wish you do have to have some Maori in your genes to get on - Ngai Tahu's senior geneologist was recently thrown off the roll when it was disclosed that he is 100% non-Maori. “

Made me think of this

I once saw a news report (outtake), a lady was asking people who were enjoying lying in the park if they knew the dangers that “exposing yourself to the sunshine posed”. She asked this guy that very question, he looked at her and said, em em yes I’m a particle physicist. :laugh

I guess he’d never heard the sunscreen song (great song, much good advice :smile )

Bob

[Miffy]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

So you can vote (ties in both subject of this thread nicely I think ;) )

I think it is very important to be able vote in the country you live in and pay yours taxes.
:smile

[Avalon]

By the way, everyone here has only one vote. Maori can choose if they want to vote in a Maori electorate or a normal one, when they register they choose which one, then they go along to the same poling place as everyone else, but are given a different form with different names on it.


Ahhhhhhh. Makes a little more sense now - thank you.

Avalon

[Miffy]

Foolsgold - glad you are enjoying yourself and happy with your decision.

(Just relaised I've completed 13 weeks (just over 90 days) myself :cheers )

[GeorgeM]

...then I will reformulate. May I ask you sir: Why do you want NZ citizenship?

So you can vote (ties in both subject of this thread nicely I think ;) )

I think it is very important to be able vote in the country you live in and pay yours taxes.
:smile

You don't need to be a citizen to vote in NZ.

From www.elections.govt.nz :

How do I know if I am eligible to enrol?

Basically, you are qualified to enrol if:

- you are 18 years or older
- you are a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident and
- you have lived in New Zealand for one year or more without leaving the country

[Avalon]

Was just about to say the same thing.

Must say i was a bit surprised. Im not sure i think its right though. Ive been here 7 months, but i really dont feel I know enough about the country yet to make a truly informed desision.

Even worse - I wasnt allowed to vote in the UK beacuse of the stupid postal votes :uhoh

Anyway: 220 days for us.

Generally enjoying it but missing home.

31 days till we settle on our new house
75 days till my parents and brother arrive :clap

[kiwidebs]

I was amazed when I moved to London that I was eligible to vote in the UK while on my working holiday visa as I was from a country that is a member of the Commonwealth!! I had no idea who any of the politicians were nor what the issues were so opted not to vote in that particular election, I have voted in every following election as I knew the politicians and issues and had married my Englishman and was planning on staying here 'forever'. (I was bought up by my Dad to believe not only is it your right to vote in a democracy it is also your responsibility - if you don't vote you have no right to complain about the idiots making the big decisions about your life!!).

Debs

[Lukas]

So I can be a proper Kiwi and go and live in Aussie like the rest of them and get away from this bloody rain

Yes oh Yes...finally I understood. However in the application form you have to fill to apply for citizenship yoou have to decalre under signiture that you intend to live further on in NZ. This is why I did't applied ...I am not sure at all I wan to live in NZ...and I use to respect my signiture.
You can vote as well as a PR Resident...and I f I can manage with my Romanian Passport I am bloody sure you can with your UK one.
Conclusion: Unless you feel Kiwy ...It's unjust to apply for NZ Citizenship

[kiwidebs]

Unless you feel Kiwy ...It's unjust to apply for NZ Citizenship

Can I just say that I applied for British Citizenship after living here for eight years....after we had decided to move to NZ. I feel Kiwi and always will, but I certainly feel and allegience for my adopted country - not least because of my husband and children who are British. However, the main reason I applied for citizenship is the thought that if we did decide to come back to live here for any currently unforeseen reason I would have to start the whole emigration process again - which costs alot of money and involves filling in loads of forms etc. I know it seems like it was only for monetary reasons but it is way more complicated than that. I am quite proud of my lovely red British passport - but in a different way to the gut wrenching pride I feel for my lovely blue NZ passport.
I think the reasons people apply for citizenship of a country are individual and complex. I also think that most people still feel an allegiance to their 'home' country.
This is just my story and my humble opinion.

Debs

[isv]

So I can be a proper Kiwi and go and live in Aussie like the rest of them and get away from this bloody rain

Yes oh Yes...finally I understood. However in the application form you have to fill to apply for citizenship yoou have to decalre under signiture that you intend to live further on in NZ. This is why I did't applied ...I am not sure at all I wan to live in NZ...and I use to respect my signiture.
You can vote as well as a PR Resident...and I f I can manage with my Romanian Passport I am bloody sure you can with your UK one.
Conclusion: Unless you feel Kiwy ...It's unjust to apply for NZ Citizenship

To be honest - I want NZ Citizenship for my children. I want to give them the ability to live/work in the maximum number of countries. NZ Citizenship will open up Australia for them too. The World's changing and our kids are going to have a heck of time finding well-paying jobs (whether in UK or NZ...) so I've gotta do whatever I can to maximize their chances.

I also feel that having a Kiwi passport in your back pocket will increasingly allow you to avoid all sorts of hassle has you travel the globe in future....

[sarahw]

I know someone who grew up here but because his parents never applied for citizenship & the family went back to UK (including him) - he wasn't able to come back as an adult & had to apply in his own right to come back - citizenship would have meant he could come back if he wanted to without having to come in as a skilled migrant.

You also can't do inter-country adoption of children unless you have citizenship (you need the Kiwi passport to bring the child back with you)... this may not affect many people but those thinking of adopting may think twice...

I think there are lots of reasons for going for citizenship,and citizenship means different things to different people - its a very personal thing. I know we'll be applying after the 3-year stint but for others they may take 10 years to come to the decision, or may never go for it. I think it depends not only on your personal feelings about the country but also on personal circumstances - i.e. if you feel you're going to have to leave NZ for an extended period & want to be able to come back you may be forced into a decision.

[Lukas]

...Not relly. A returning resident visa issued indefinitelly allows you to come back in NZ at any time regardless how much time you have spend overseas. My point was...there are just to many people abusing their right to become NZ citizens. Here including many British I meet who wanted NZ citizenship just in order to settle in Australia.

[sarahw]

Aren't part of the returning residents visa conditions that to remain a resident that you have to spend a minimum 240 days a year in NZ?

[Lukas]

...Not at All...(unless they modified something) to gain a RRV Indefinitelly you have to spend 184 days in each 12 months period within the first 2 years after PR was gained.

[Avalon]

We have met many people in the UK who are kicking themselves for not having taken citizenship here when they had the chance. They now cannot emigrate back here because they ahve been back in the UK for too long. They are too old for PR nad not rich enough to Invest. Citizenship would have meant they could retire here.

Im not sure of the specifics - but there must be some time-limits on RRV.

Avalon

[Lukas]

A RRV issued indefinitely means it it valid indefinitelly (with no limits of time). These are legal matters not just simple words.

[GeorgeM]

My understanding of the situation is the same a Lukas's - once you get an indefinite RRV you can come and go as you please.

The first RRV is issued for 2 years from the day you arrive, and you have to maintain residence to a certain standard in those two years to turn it into an indefinite one. If you don't do this you may still be granted a further RRV with conditions and be given an indefinite one if you fulfil those.

Perhaps the rules have changed from years ago?

If anyone disagrees with this understanding of the current situation can they please enlighten us? For the time being I'm working on the basis that 'Indefinite' means just that.

[Lukas]

...Also an Indefinite RRV is a good alternative for those who for various reasons are not intending to apply for NZ citizenship (many will lose their native citizenship Germans, Duch, Swedish citizens etc).
Hovewer 2 years in my view is long enough for an RRV indefinite...just think that in 2 years the Australians are granting Citizenship

[sarahw]

Thanks George & Lukas - that clarifies - I thought from the info I had previously that you had to spend 240 days a year here indefinitely to keep your PR - glad to hear its only for a couple of years! :nice1

[Lukas]

...and in that couple of years you have to spend 183 days a year in NZ not 240.

[shagen]

If you hold a PR you are not a citizen and the country that issued the PR can change their rules which could affect one's eligibility to return to NZ. With a citizenship, whatever immigration rules that change one will not be affected.

If you look at the fine prints under RRV, it says that NZIS has a right to revoke it anytime.

I agree with Sarah, citizenship is a personal thing. People apply for all sorts of reasons, reasons that another person would think are trivial or not important.

[Lukas]

...there may be changes on the RRV policy but most of the times they are not retroactive.
...yes NZIS can revoque a RRV visa at any time motivated by serious cases (false informations, crimes etc) last year in NZ were canceled 34 PR and 8 deportations. It may happen the same with the citizenship. Unelss was obtained by birth it may be cancelled at any time for serious missconduct.

[Lukas]

...and by the way There are many people in NZ staying their entire life on PR/RRV Duch, Germans, Japanese people (those countries does not allowed double nationality) they don't want to lose handy passports and rights (see EU citizens for instance) in order to gain what? (...oh yeah..the right to settle in Australia).

[shagen]

It may happen the same with the citizenship. Unelss was obtained by birth it may be cancelled at any time for serious missconduct.

Interesting! What would happen to someone who had given up their other citizenship. Not every country recognises dual citizenship. So, where would one go, if his NZ citizenship was revoked?

[foolsgold99]

(...oh yeah..the right to settle in Australia).

Lukas, will you give it up about the Aussie thing, it was a joke, I said it was a joke the first time I mentioned it. Get with the irony and move on. If we'd wanted to live in Australia, we would have done it. We had the points, we'd have got in without any problems.

Best way I can describe it is thus, Citizenship is like marriage.

PR& RRV is like living together. Both are equally valid, depending on your circumstances.

Marriage (& citizenship) is a public comitment to a life long partnership, to the exculsion of all others. Doesn't always work out, divorce happens. But it's a statement of intent that this is your home, and your are comitted to it.

Hope this sounds sensible

[foolsgold99]

Interesting! What would happen to someone who had given up their other citizenship. Not every country recognises dual citizenship. So, where would one go, if his NZ citizenship was revoked?

The universal declaration of human rights, adopted by the Un in 1948, provides provision for this circumstance, no country has the right to make a person stateless. If a person is classed as stateless they can apply for a UN passport, and will be classified as a refugee, and resettled via some UN program. Doesn't happen very oftern, but it is happened after wars to displaced civilians

[Lukas]

...You may be right . However... regarding the "life commitment "unfortunately most of NZ citizenship applicants don’t think in your terms.
In my case because I can't give a life commintment to NZ at this point I may not apply for NZ citizenship even If I can do so within the next three months. Fair enough ?

[Avalon]

...You may be right . However... regarding the "life commitment "unfortunately most of NZ citizenship applicants don’t think in your terms.


Could you explain that please?

From my POV, I would have thought that anyone taking citizenship would be doing so because they want to make a commitment. Is that not the case?

Thanks

[Lukas]

The main reason ordinary rezidence condition for NZ citizenship was extended from 3 to 5 years relly on the fact that many if not most new immigrants use it as a way to settle in Australia.