[KiwiB]

Asians in NZ subjected to racism, study finds

14.09.05 1.00pm


Many Asians living in New Zealand are subjected to some form of racism, a new study has found. The Asia New Zealand Foundation report, Engaging Asian Communities in New Zealand, revealed the most common form of racism was verbal abuse and rude gestures, often by teenagers or children.

Overt racism included damage to cars identifiable as Asian-owned, having bottles or stones thrown at them, and being mocked for poor pronunciation.

Asia New Zealand's research director, Dr Rebecca Foley, said the main purpose of the research was to look at ways that engagement between various Asian communities and other communities happened -- "or does not happen, as the case may be". "It is disturbing that most participants in the research had experienced some form of racism," she said.

"But at the same time, it is heartening that there are so many private and public agencies offering a wide variety of programmes that migrants find useful." The report's authors -- Terry McGrath, Dr John Pickering, Dr Hilary Smith and Dr Andrew Butcher -- based their study on 17 focus groups held with 94 participants from a range of Asian communities.

Many participants reported being the victims of more "subtle" types of racism. In employment, for instance, some felt they missed out on jobs and promotions because of their ethnicity, and workmates pretended not to understand them or patronised them.

Some Asians reported being deliberately misunderstood in shops, cafes or a supermarket "in order to humiliate", being snubbed by other mothers in schools when greeting their children and being avoided in public places, like a swimming pool.

Wellington Chinese Association president Steven Young said he was "not surprised" by the report's findings, but it was disappointing for new migrants to find themselves not wholly accepted.

"Racism is not so much a problem for Asian New Zealanders who have grown up here and gone through the school system and have Kiwi speech patterns," he said.

"But with the larger influxes of migrants in recent years, particularly into areas which haven't traditionally seen many migrants, prejudice has come to the fore."

Some people also felt threatened by the way in which these new migrants were often highly skilled and moving out of "more traditional roles" into professional positions in society, he said. Dr Foley said the report went beyond research on what problems Asian migrants face and examined what worked in terms of engaging with the host community.

There was no "silver bullet" programme in existence but the research would help people take a wider view of what was needed to form a socially cohesive society, she said. There were 17 focus groups, made up of a range of nationalities, including Chinese, Singaporean, Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, Malaysian, Sri Lankan and Indian.

- NZPA

[StevieD]

Very interesting that! Good post....

[ruthyroo]

It's an interesting one, and I've learned that NZ is really quite unique in a lot of ways in this respect. Geographically, NZ is an South Pacific island, far closer to Asia than it is to Europe, yet because of the huge impact of European colonisation / invasion, so many people here regard 'white NZ' as 'normal', and the Asians as the new invaders. Yet geographically it makes perfect sense that a lot of Asian (and Pacific Island) people would want to come and settle here. My impression from talking, especially to older kiwis of european descent, is that they feel very deeply that NZ is somehow still part of Europe (or even of the UK) - it just happens to be 12000m miles away on the other side of the world. It's very evident in the advertising of products here - anything that purports to be of high quality tends to have some claim to being of "European design" or somesuch. But the UK has pretty much cut NZ loose in terms of trade etc, so they have to look at the Asian markets to survive. So I guess the fact that their little corner of England-on-Pacific is changing rapidly scares a lot of people, and it comes out as hostility to Asian people that come here - and don't choose to adopt kiwi ways of living. I guess there is a bit of an island mentality here too - pretty narrow minded and closed off to incomers sometimes, especially ones that look / talk / eat / work / drive differently. And the reference to young people was interesting - I don't think there is a more conservative-minded groups anywhere than teenagers - hopefully they will mellow as they get a bit older and realise there is a whole world outside their town / NZ!!

[Moorf]

I caught a programme on telly a while back about how new DNA research seems to be showing that the Maori race originated in Taiwan! Hmmm... doesn't THAT put a new spin on things ;)

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s823810.htm

[jubjub]

Theres a social experiment show on TV here at the moment, where they get people to live their lives for a day with a disability/change of race to see how folks react to them.

I only saw the one where they got two "white" folks and did them up as a an Iraqi male asylum seeker, and a chinese girl. they both did really well in their performances for the day, the girls best mate was even fooled. However they did find that they were treated differently, the girl found that shops did not come straight over and offer to help like they normally would, and found she was regularly ignored throughout her asian day. The guy found a similar thing, places he knew had jobs to offer (he had asked the day before) he went in as Iraqi and mysteriously the jobs had gone.....

[Moorf]

Yeah Sal, that was / is a great series - this weeks episode was two people who had to survive being disabled (one blind, one in wheelchair)...

[sweetpea]

Asians in NZ subjected to racism, study finds

That's really interesting, and sad. Articles like this tend to intensify my fears of "Oh God, I'm moving to an isolated backwater full of bigots."

But then, how different is it from the US? Asians and Asian-Americans here don't get the brunt of racism hurled at immigrants (although I'm sure they get some), mostly because they are thought of the model minority, as productive members of society living the American dream of upward mobility. Other immigrants are not so lucky, not to mention the minority native sons and daughters who are thoroughly oppressed, impoverished and discounted (cf. government Hurricane Katrina relief efforts or lack thereof). So which country is the isolated backwater here?

OK, off my soapbox.

[veronica]

Trying to take a bit of a different slant on this, taking the issue of race away and looking at it from 2 different perspectives, one of them being kids. if someone of european caucasian descent is in anyway out of the ordinary, eg. redhaired, stammers/stutters, smells, is short or very tall, then the kids will tease/torment them about it, they will get called names and on occasion be very hurt by this behaviour. but thats kids being kids unfortunately. As soon as 'race' enters the equation its regarded as racist but they are doing the same sort of thing that they have been doing to caucasian kids and just picking up on the differences.

When it comes to conversing with someone who speaks another language then yes, sometimes it is very hard to understand what they mean, we have had lots of asians in the shop hiring skis or snowboards and on several occasions it has been extremely difficult to understand what is required although they are speaking English. It makes me feel helpless and embarassed for them as if its my inability to interpret what they are saying that is at fault and thats with me knowing the subject they are talking about. We have had similar situations here at the backpackers too, but with Europeans as well as asians, and again I end up feeling guilty that I am having trouble understanding what is being said, but as we have so far had 33 different nationalities through not sure what language I should have learnt to deal with the situation. I think this embarassment is a factor in people appearing to ignore them. There is no excuse for adult people to take the micky out of them, thats just ignorance on their part.

I have no doubt that this will upset someone on the forum but sometimes it seems as if it would best to not keep putting these things in the national press as it always seems to lead to even more copycat racist behaviour, especially for a lot of people who see others actions as justification for their own behaviour.

[Stu]

I tend to agree with Veronica.

I think racism is no worse here than in any other country in the world, I am sure there is a degree of racism to be found even in asian countries. Most of the time no malice is intended, it is just an impatience/ reluctance to deal with other peoples peculiarities, which naturally makes those people feel bad.

I don't actually know if that should be called "racism" or not. I think it is more likely to be "tribalism" more than anything else. Any community, no matter what size, will feel less generously inclined to those not of that community, either thru their feeling nervous or embarrassed at having to deal with differences in speech/behavious etc. I dunno.

There certainly has been a very large influx of immigration from Asia in the last decade or so, this wave of migrants has largely settled in the Auckland area, and so has had a definite and highly noticable impact on the make up of the various communities up there, leading to exasperation and frustration by those already there.

This is not helped by political twerps trying to cash in on this feeling of people be swamped by foreigners, politicians such as Winston Peters, the leader in the anti-asian immigration group. He has exploited peoples fears of outsiders very nicely thank you, although with any luck, this election he will be out of parliament.

You have to remember, NZ is a small country, mostly made up of small-town communities, largely white/british decent and maori. The arrival of a large number of people of a new culture will naturally cause concern, dissent and all sorts of other perfectly normal human reactions.

Is there any racism to the degree of cross burning, race riots etc? Certainly not! I suspect the "racism" shown to asians is not a personal one, but a general one. Comments like "bloody asians, they ALWAYS drive so slow!" etc are everywhere, but not meaning of course Joe Yee, the bloke from the sales department at work whose BBQ you went to last week, He is a kiwi, HE is not asian....

As far as racist behaviour goes, hmmmm... I tihnk Kiwis are perhaps less racist than many other countries. One example I know of thru personal experience is enlightening, and that is the reaction of the Solomon Islanders to the RAMSI forces over there. RAMSI (regional assistance mission to the Solomon Islands) was the group sent in from around the pacific, to help restore law and order in the Solomon Islands.
Military folks have left now, however police from mainly Aussie and NZ are still there and likely to remain so for the next decade or so. From talking to the solomon islanders themselves, the Kiwis are far more popular than the Aussies. Why? Because the aussie cops have a definite attitude problem when dealing with the Solomon Islanders, which really annoys the locals. Kiwi cops though, being used to a much more racially diverse mix of people than aussies are, fit in much better over there.
This is great for me, because everyone from waiters to taxi drivers to sales people all react very positively when they find out you're a Kiwi, it is pretty funny seeing the reaction this causes to aussie tourists when they see it!

Anyhow. Off the point slightly perhaps. There really is no big problem with Asians in NZ, honestly. It is the bloody whingeing pommie b@stards that really annoy us...., oh, and the loud, rude, yanks. And the South Africans. And the Dutch! Cripes..... racism or tribalism?

cheers, Stu.

[Simon & Emily]

Veronica, I have to agree with you completely. On the subject of children, they can be very evil little critters. They can be as mean as they can be to a 'normal' white child with teasing, but as soon as they even pass comment on a local child with a scarf, that is then deemed far more unacceptable and stopped, even it it's good natured. A friend of ours passed comment on a situation she had been in. In a supermarket, a black guy was serving at the bakery and her 2 year old daughter called him a chocolate man. There was no malice at all, just an observation that he was not her standard colour. He laughed, struck up a conversation and all was OK . However, the same child also asked mum in another shop why the man's hair was green, and sticking up on end! With hindsight, the green haired man could have turned very nasty if you went by stereotypes, and you wouldn't expect a mature happy looking shop assistant to turn openly hostile to a toddler. However, she was far more worried about upsetting a black guy about the colour of his skin, which is normal and seen everywhere, rather than a rough looking lout who was 'out to shock' with his hair.

A sad indication of today's society, I think.

Emily

[sarah_ahn]

Hi, I was wondering if anybody felt discriminated by the NZ immigration? My family just happens to asian in the US and we have applied for NZ but it's taking ages for the process...With work experience in IT but no job offer, we sent the ITA back on April and just heard back from them in July ( they even sent the confirmation letters to other addresses except the one we asked to be sent..) a document was needed so an extra month of delay and we just had an interview on sept 8 but so far no news whether we'll get PR or WTR. At this point we'd not be surprised if we get WTR even though almost everybody else is getting PR under skilled category because of IT work exp..I don't know if It's just our imagination that our application is taking much longer than other with no other apparent reason we can think of except being asians..There are others from the US that we have compared to and it didn't take them that long to them. I don't know, we haven't even arrived in NZ yet but we are already having an eerie feeling of receiving an 'unwanted special treatment' by the NZ government already or NZlanders per extension..
Regards...Sarah

[veronica]

Somewhere on this forum there used to be a thread with timings on, not sure if it was just from the UK or whether there were people from the states on there too. I also think that people from the states are being processed from the UK, although not 100% sure on that.
I know that people without a job to come too were taking a lot longer than those with a job offer, so its likely that is more the cause than anything else. My own feelings are that you are reading too much into things, theres plenty of people on the forum from the UK who have taken a similar amount of time. but have a search for the timeline thread and see how things compare.

[Stu]

Sarah, I would doubt that very much indeed. The largest proportion of immigration to NZ of late has been from asia, I think, so I think it most unlikely that they'd pick on someone in the US of asian descent.
Sounds like it is just one of those quirks of bureaucracy to me. You know, "SNAFU"!
cheers, Stu.

[dave k]

I think it's been from Europe actually, according to the last figures I saw.

[Singel]

Asians in NZ subjected to racism, study finds

Hello Sarah,

I don't think the study has anything to do with immigration processing. As far as I know, the immigration is still letting in Asian people who meet the requirements. It is more like bureacracy than anything as other forum members already mentioned.

Good Luck :cheers

[sarah_ahn]

It's official, we got WTR, probably one of the few that got WTR..and why is that I am not surprised even though we are IT skilled, not a profession that requires certificate etc..For all those that defend NZIS because they had a wonderful exp I can say ours was not so, nothing obvious but subtle, like some emails going unanswered or sending letters to other addresses except the mailing address or our process taking longer than others with similar cases ( reading from the forum which I believe them) and lastly, after the interview, the CO just went for a vacation for a month without even caring to notify us about the result nor the leave, after two weeks with no news I emailed somebody else to find out we just got WTR..Why not PR like other IT skilled workers from Europe and US..? the only reason I can think of it is just because we are Asian! I wonder whether there is an unwritten policy unwelcoming Asian immigrants with excuses or by making it harder for them. Why not denying our application? Well, that would be too evident and we would appeal it so everything would be exposed then..I don't think of any reason why we don't deserved the PR, with proven IT skills in the US and confidence in finding job in NZ ( we are not saying it, the NZIS for God's sake is saying when the listed as shortage of workers right?) and also proven ability to settle in NZ with having even relatives in NZ..What do we got? WTR..
I believe that if there is a way to make it harder for us, they would..for no other reason that being asian.
I know there is not a place without some sort of discrimination (race, sex, age etc..) but having lived in the US, I am surprised that an official government agency is discriminating asian immigrants subtly with impunity or even with acknowledgment from the top.. Since the last change in the immigration policy and implementation of EOI, the NZIS is inviting qualified applicants to come, sort of welcome; and so they did to us at the beginning but after they way it's been going for us I feel insulted and probably, very probably I would have decided against it if I knew what I know now.
I welcome anyone with a similar case to ours except being asian to come forward and prove me wrong; I'd be glad if so since otherwise it would not be just sad but tragic. Lastly, if there is any doubt I can tell you that once I had applied for Canadian residence and it took about three months from application to interview ( later I decided against it for personal reasons) on the other hand with NZIS my EOI was selected in Nov 2004 and just got thre results of the interview..Can you see any difference? I don't complain always, for everything; I don't have any complain against Canadian officials ( they are fair and very professionals ), not so about NZIS and their officials though..

[barryp]

I've been tracking applications by IT professionals for close to a year now, and there seems to be quite a wide variation in how long the process takes - as well as the outcomes. Our EOI took months to process, but we heard back from NZIS about a week after our completed ITA had been received in London. So, this situation could well be bureaucratic delays, and nothing more.

The interviews really do stress English fluency, some limitation in spoken English skills being one explicit criterion given for issuing WTR instead of PR. I don't mean to be derogatory in any way towards you, Sarah, but: could that apply to your situation?

This topic is dear to me, even though I'm not Asian. One of the many positive aspects of working in IT is the ethnic richness we all experience every day just by going to work, alongside the commonly-held belief that ethnicity per se is irrelevant to PERFORMING THE JOB. (Either the network is up, or it's not; either the code works, or it doesn't. Sex, race, religion, etc. do not make one whit of difference.)

I have firsthand and secondhand reports by IT workers in NZ, non-native English speakers, who believe themselves to be discriminated against because of their ethnic backgrounds. But I have also read reports on the web by Asian IT professionals who report that they face a LOWER level of discrimination in NZ, compared to their prior work experience in the UK, Ireland, and/or USA. This inconsistency has been much on my mind as a potential migrant.

To take a specific example: professional work done in India is no longer eligible for points, because India is not considered a 'comparable labour market' to NZ. Well, I don't know everything, but I do know that the state of the software development art in India is amongst the highest in the world. (I would venture that it exceeds that in NZ by a wide margin - but even if I'm wrong on that, there's no way a rational professional could say that education and work experience in India IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT is not at least comparable.) I can only conclude that there are other forces at work, and it's certainly conceivable in my mind that one of those forces is political pressure to keep a lid on the number of brown and yellow people entering the country, in a way that is easier to sell than 'No Blacks, no dogs, no Irish'.

The subject is very sensitive, but I think it's OK to address it.

[sarah_ahn]

Hi barryp, I appreciate your sincere opinion on the subject..But firstly, this thread started due to an academic study about asian discrimination, not a personal exp or point of view. So I would say it's not my imagination. Secondly, I posted my exp. because I could not think of any other reasons for my difficulties with the application other than being asian. My point is not about people's discrimination in the workplace etc but the politics and policy of an official government agency which is not ok and unacceptable.
My english is not native but I think it is pretty good, never had any problem with customers or co-workers and never had discrimination issues at work either.
I talked to Mr. Badman, the NZ advisor in US, about my case and the resulting decision and he was also surprised and couldn't explain why we weren't granted PR with IT exp. and having a relative in NZ. It's not just us but also Mr. Badman thinks is unusual, quite puzzled. BTW he didn't complain about my english and he could understand me very well too.
I see that sadly your process took a long time too, I assumed you were granted PR or still pending..?
Still keep wondering if our names were something like Jane smith and checked in race as white, the process and outcome would have been the same..
Still nobody in the forum is proving me I am wrong, nobody got WTR with IT skill has come forward..I even have a sister who is NZ citizen living there..
The worst part of all it's that london branch is a government agency; if the government isn't fair and equal, how can I seek justice? Who is going to enforce it?
I am tired of all this, I want to get over this..after all there is nothing I can do, no point to appeal my case. appeal to whom?
Thanks barryp again..wishing you get PR if not already..
feel little better venting my frustration out, the only thing I can do anyways..

[Soon2baKiwi]

Sarah

I am Irish, married to a New Zealander, and applied for a work permit and PR in July (I am already in New Zealand). I got the work permit really quickly but will have to wait until after Christmas for a Case Officer to be even appointed to my case. It will take up to one year for my application to go through. No reason other than bureauacy.

[Stu]

Hmmm, I don't know, Sarah, if you are feeling bad about discrimination etc in NZ and worried about it being official policy, perhaps you may want to consider Australia or elsewhere? Canada is a beaut place, and as the officials there are not giving you a hard time, perhaps you may feel more reassured and welcome there after all?

Interesting thread.
Stu.

[veronica]

Sarah, I think that you are feeling discriminated against and looking for things to back it up. One of the reasons that it takes such a time for the visas to go through is the number of applications. they give priority to those who already have got a job to start so that pushes those already waiting back a bit. And I wouldn't feel that its because your Asian that you have been given WTR, a friend of ours from England, again in IT, found the only way he could qualify was to take the WTR visa.

IT covers such a vast no. of jobs now and not all of them are in demand, and its very noticable that there is a fair number of IT people on this forum and they are not all finding it easy to get jobs.

It may be an idea if you start another thread with a different heading, something along the lines of IT immigrants. and put in there about how long it is taking for those without jobs to get visas or WTR. not everybody reads posts with a heading that is not relevant to them. The only other thing I would like to say is that if you look for discimination then you will surely find it where ever you are, as a woman in business, regardless of colour I find examples of it against me, but so what, you make your own life.

[Avalon]

Sarah,

I know of more than a few people who get WTR rather than PR. From what ive seen, its because they dont have Job Offers.

It also took months for our paperwork to go through - held up by the sheer number of applications. we also had problems getting answers to queries (a level of unhelpfulness only exceeded by that recieved from NZIS in Wellington!) It didnt speed up till we had a job offer. We were led to beleive that we would be unlikely to get PR straight off without an offer.

Also, not everyone gets the vISA they want. My parents didnt get one at all! And you really would be horrified at the delays and crap they got from NZIS! (and they had to pay a heeluva lot more for the privalege)

All I can say its that its an Immigration department. A huge beauracratic nightmare for all of us.

[Moorf]

I may be wrong, and have a short memory, but it wasn't long ago (i.e. last year when we went through the EOI / ITA process) that getting PR with no job offer wasn't even thought about when going via the Skilled Migrant scheme. We applied, with over 120 points, and our EOI was selected in July 2004, we got on a plane wit no job offers in Sept 04, got job offers in Nov and received 1 yr work visa's because of those job offers. It was only then that we received our ITA (December) with PR finally granted in Feb/March 2005! So that was 8 months from selection to PR and at the time we were told to expect the process to take longer! We fully expected to get WTR or a 2 yr working visa, even though PR was our goal.

[UktoKiwi]

To sarah ahn
Just a quick observation. You say your English is well understood and I expect that is correct. However Your English writing is not very good and perhaps this might have a bearing on your situation. However, I suspect you have been suffering general problems and delays that most of us have experienced one way or another. For instance, I was originally told our application would take about 3 months to be dealt with. It took over 6 months! Anyway, if you still want to go to NZ I wish you luck.

[Moorf]

However Your English writing is not very good and perhaps this might have a bearing on your situation.




And there was me thinking that Sarah's written English was really good!!

[Avalon]

And there was me thinking that Sarah's written English was really good!!

Mine's terrible :o It always looks perfect in my head, but by the time it gets on the screen - its gibberish. Im surprised anyone can tell what im gabbling on about!

Ho Hum, sign of the compuetr age I guess - I never used to be this crap at writing.

[UktoKiwi]

Perhaps I have been a little unfair as the English is obviously good in many ways for someone whose 1st language was not English. But there are numerous incorrect words and mistakes of grammar. I was just suggesting a vague reason why she might have had a problem, as she was convinced, probably incorrectly, that her shoddy treatment was due to her being Asian. But my observation was probably unnecessary.

[Moorf]

Ultimately, this is a forum and not a spelling test - so even though I'm a total stickler for grammar and spelling I often don't give a hoot when posting on here - depends on my mood :o - having said that, not sure I'd like to go through an english test these days (as Avalon says, this is the age of the spell-checker and I'm sure my spelling has become lazier as time goes by :yes ) - I would probably be as nervous as I was with the driving one!!

[Annierobrigado]

hi all

maybe if all of us just took everyone at face value, and tried to see a friendly person behind every look, smile, raised eyebrow or what, then we probably won't find any difficulty getting through the day. after all, good morning still means the same whether it's said in chinese, french, italian, arabic, or english, and if someone says good morning to me that makes my day.

sometimes things are only said goodnaturedly, and we'd do well to just treat it as it is. that's the beauty of being discriminated against - you get hurt, naturally, but you toughen up and choose to either let it destroy you, or make you a better person, by not mimicking the racist way and instead showing more kindness not only to minority groups but to the racist as well.

i like the kiwis - they're more goodnatured than any other group of people i know. but i guess it goes both ways too, because filipinos are also known to be goodnatured too.

cheers
annie

[Aug & Feb]

A friend from Christchurch asked me to post this newspaper article here for the purpose of general reading and educational. Not meant to offend anyone here. This attached news article was published in early Sept. 2005.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,94117,00.html

================================================== =======
Why I stand up to the skinheads
By Lincoln Tan (from Christchurch)

September 07, 2005


WATCHING my 5-year-old son, Ryan, mimic the national rugby team, All Blacks, sing 'God Defend New Zealand', the country's national anthem, the thought hit me - this is now home for me. My two children, Ryan and Megan, 3, are New Zealand citizens by virtue of birth, and they have been the deciding factor for my wife and I making New Zealand our adopted homeland.

Singapore, the country I left in 1997, will be to them what China was to our forefathers. New Zealand is where they will grow up and grow old.

Therein lies an issue of colour - race.

In Christchurch, where Asians make up only 7 per cent of the population, my kids look obviously different from others.New Zealand may be considered by many to have one of the best race relations in the world, but all is not well in the Land of the Long White Cloud.

It portrays a '100 per cent' pure clean and green image. But we in Christchurch suffer nights of smog for up to five months in the year.

The reality of its race relations also has two sides.

Recently, the wife of a Sikh immigrant wrote to a local paper to say: '(We) have been subjected to eggs being thrown at us along with the racist yelling of 'rag head' and various other malicious vocabularies focused on ethnicity and religion.'

Last month, a Chinese, who has lived in New Zealand for 17 years, was assaulted by a group of local whites, one of whom said she did it because she 'hates gooks'.

The fact that this is election year in New Zealand does not help, as politicians play the race card to win votes.

Asians have been accused of forcing up house prices, clogging up roads, stealing jobs and abusing the welfare system.

The day-to-day realities of racial discrimination against Asians become even more obvious in my line of work.

I edit an Asian community newspaper and am a volunteer chairperson for the Asian Youth Trust - a body supporting young Asian migrants and students.

Last year, a Vietnamese girl was kicked and beaten to the ground at the Christchurch bus interchange by two shaven head New Zealanders. Witnesses just looked on.

I decided that enough is enough.

I agreed to work with a Malaysian lawyer and a Muslim university lecturer to organise a march against racism in May last year. The call was for stronger law against race-hate crimes.

The skinheads decided to hold a counter rally, and were quoted in a newspaper report as saying, 'Asians who cannot fit in deserve to be abused'.

The local mayor denied racism exists in Christchurch: 'It's only people getting to know each other,' he said, calling the organisers 'extreme' and 'naive'.

The mayor of Christchurch asked the Asian organisers to back down and said the local council would support the rally only if Asians don their national costumes and turned the march into a street parade.

I considered this an insult. I did not migrate to New Zealand to become a court jester to entertain the Lord Mayor.

It was a little more encouraging that 2,000 people were at our rally, and about 20 were at the skinheads'.

The massive media coverage sparked more talk on racism and race relations.

But in not having a multicultural past, New Zealand is struggling to find something workable to help racial integration. The 2 1/2 years I spent in national service in Singapore made me realise that whether we are Malay, Indian, Chinese or Eurasian, we shared similar problems. Under our different coloured skins, we were the same.

I came out of the army having more friends from other races than before.

So, no matter how much fish and chips or pavlova (a popular Kiwi dessert) I eat, I will still be a Singaporean deep down.

It is different for my children though, and I have made it my mission to try and make New Zealand a better place for them.

Ryan will probably never make the All Blacks, and Megan will never be a Rachel Hunter - but they are New Zealanders. That's why I do stupid things like standing up to the skinheads.

I want my kids to grow up in a place where they are valued, no matter what their colour - just like in daddy's Singapore.

[veronica]

this thread has gone the full circle and we are now back to the beginning of it. Race can be an issue, so can being disabled, a woman, taller than average, etc. People of narrow minds will always find something about people who are 'different' to have a go about, even against the brits. Thank goodness there are so, so many more people who have broader outlooks. Its just a shame that those few with narrow minds are the ones who make the news headlines. (and its headlines that sell papers)

After all whats to write about the vast majority of us who aren't predudiced.

Stand by what I said in the earlier article, I don't think that publicizing the issue in the papers helps, I think it just encourages copy cat behaviour.

just as an interest....does anyone know if there is a brits paper published here.

[Timbo]

Hi V. Not sure about a paper being published there, but this may help a little;

http://www.britishexpat.com/British_Newspapers.417.0.html

[Stu]

That report from Chc sounds about right to me. 2000 marching in a anti-racism demo, twenty in a racist one.
I am alllllmost sure there are, perhaps, misfits like skinheads in other countries than NZ. Perhaps it is a purely NZ problem. But if there were any numbers of similar racist lunatic fringes in other countries like, umm, say Britain, Europe, North America... then surely those countries too should be labeled as "racist".
You will find narrow minded gits everywhere I suspect. I also suspect that although we may have enough in NZ, in general we have a lot fewer than in many other countries.

Stu.

[veronica]

Don't need it thanks Timbo. just feel that papers like that encourage people to emphasise they are from a different origin and maybe not intergrate as well.

[Avalon]

A couple of things stood out for me from that Article:

New Zealand may be considered by many to have one of the best race relations in the world,

I actullay came here expecting to see "racism" and discrimination as Kiwis never seem backwars in coming forwards about thier views on "Foreigners" when we visited before. Something Stu said in another post actually comes to mind - because when taking to Kiwis about the fact we wanted to emigrate here - they would tell us we were the "sort they needed". At this point all the had to go on was that we were Brits, and apparently I have a very "English" accent. Also, the immigration system IS geared to stop people form certain countries ever getting wnough points to come in.

Asians have been accused of forcing up house prices, clogging up roads, stealing jobs and abusing the welfare system.
Ive only ever heard the Americans blamed for this! (Obviously im not in Christchurch though!) My feeling is that us brits probably aint helping either. But underneath all that - the Kiwis are selling the houses - they dont HAVE to ask such high prices ! I always think this is a bit weird - the Buyer does set the price (accept at auction - so maybe valid here) - the sellers do.

The mayor of Christchurch asked the Asian organisers to back down and said the local council would support the rally only if Asians don their national costumes and turned the march into a street parade.

I couldnt aggree with the lady more - the guy is a prat! (Imho)

Under our different coloured skins, we were the same.

Which in the end is what matters. Homosapiens - the lot of us. Unfortunately we can also be evil little Bug***s, and I dont think its going to change. However I try my very best to treat everyone with respect and kindness - and in the end that is all we can do. If we treat our neighbours (or strangers) kindly - then maybe they will "pass it on". Tree-hugging-hippy-crap - but it can actually work.

Smile at someone tommorow - it will cheer them up!

[Timbo]

Avalon. I for one have tried the smiling at strangers bit, as well as greeting them with a cheery "Hello". Unfortunately us brits are simply not accustomed to it, and more often than not you get scowled at in responce. Or you get the "what are you looking at " type of reaction. Sad, but true.

[Avalon]

Avalon. I for one have tried the smiling at strangers bit, as well as greeting them with a cheery "Hello". Unfortunately us brits are simply not accustomed to it, and more often than not you get scowled at in responce. Or you get the "what are you looking at " type of reaction. Sad, but true.

Well, its certainly a lot easier here I have to say!!! (And i have to admit to wandering around most of today with a scowl on my face :o )

And hey - even if you do get a funny look - not everyone reacts like that. I guess I think it has to start somewhere. Believe me - the day someone tells you you have a lovely smile - it makes it all worthwhile. Happened to me at work in the UK. And just to prove you cant judge a book by its cover - it was a skinhead! I took a prescription out to him and smiled at him (not unusual - I generally try to smile when handing out prescriptions) and he was absoluetly floored by it!!!! Told his mate I have a gorgeous smile, thanked me, and left me absolutely beaming :)

[Stu]

Ahhhhh...., Avalon, so-, chatting up the Skinheads now eh! Tsk tsk tsk.... :-)
I also think it is dumb "blaming" anyone for forcing up house prices so much... what a load of BS! I cannot imagine anyone refusing to sell their house for 500g because they feel it really should only be a more reasonable 250g. Yeah right, like THAT'd happen! Yu sell to whoever has the most money surely. So what if they are immigrants? I bet those who resented like heck having to pay so much for their property 3 years ago will be bitter about the new +++$$$ valuations put on their houses, oh no, now THAT would be a Smart Investment. A little hypocritical perhaps?
And if it were Asians driving up Aklds house prices, what has driven up the beach house prices? Sod all Asian families buying into beach houses as far as I can tell... yet those prices have double or more in the last few years.
As far as I am concerned anyone who comes to NZ with money and a drive to live the good life and increase our nations wealth is more than welcome, come one come all... (well, not quite ALL..., don't want the place too crowded now, do we? :-) )
cheers,
Stu.

[Timbo]

That reminds me of a kiwi guy on another forum Stu. A good while back now, he tried to sell me his bach for a grossly inflated price. It was up Whitianga way. Ring any bells? :laugh

[Avalon]

Ahhhhh...., Avalon, so-, chatting up the Skinheads now eh! Tsk tsk tsk.... :-)
:laugh :laugh :laugh

[Stu]

Yeah, Timbo, you gotta watch those mercenary swine, eh! :-)

The offer is still open though mate, naturally, given the time lapsed since then, the price has risen just a little (well, OK, to be honest, a lot).

cheers, Stu.