[kamus]

We have made little to no headway in our quest to get into NZ. We have several dubious ways by which that we might get in but by no means do we feel we have anything close to a reasonable expectation that we could get our eventual PRs and move to the destination of our desire.

So here is our newest, possibly insane, plan of the moment:

We buy a house in NZ anyway. We can afford it, within reason. We buy in a resortish area of NZ, one that has vacation rental potential and we use it as a combination vacation /homebase from which we could mount various operations in the pursuit of permanent residency such as trying to get a job.

Seems semi-sensible on paper. Real estate costs are reasonably expected to rise so even in a worst case scenario we are likely to at least recoup our investment in the event that it becomes utterly impossible to achieve PR.

However...

Possible drawbacks:

1) Difficult to manage and maintain property from 12,000 miles away.
Though in the US one can obtain the services of companies who do such things.

Question- Would this render the idea non-cost effective?

Drawback 2) Airfares are expected to rise sharply in the next few years with no likely amelioration predicted by any sensible oil market analyst, rendering future visits a severe financial burden.

Drawback 3) If the political situation in the US took a sudden turn for the worse and we felt compelled to move to Canada (who will gladly take us) our assets would be partially tied up in NZ.

On reflection I guess this is not too bad a drawback as we could sell our current home and trade that in for a house in Canada.

Drawback 4) We may never get PR and this could all be an akward lesson in poor investment choice.

Further questions:

1. Has anyone tried this approach? How did it work out?

2. Did I miss any potential drawbacks?

3. Did I miss any potential benefits?

4. How much of a pain is it to purchase an overseas property in NZ?

5. If our plan isn't sheer lunancy, does anyone have any suggestions as to location?

OK that's about all my cold-ridden sleep-deprived walnut-sized brain can think of for the moment. We'll anxiously await all comments pro and con from you lot, whom we've come to regard as good, if somewhat intangible, friends!

TIA!

-Dave and Cynthia

http://thia.org/sheep.gif

[drumminj]

Dave, I can't say that I have any advice to offer. It sounds like a decent idea, but I have no clue whether it's financially sound.

Out of curiousity, have you filed your EOI yet? Been selected? What path for PR are you taking at the moment?

J

[cpgrant]

Hmmm....

I'm certainly no expert on any of the issues you raise. However, at first blush, I hate to say it, but your idea would make me nervous.

Unless propery values are projected to absolutely skyrocket, I doubt you would recoup your investment. First, I don't see that you could claim a mortgage interest deduction on US taxes, so there's no benefit from that angle, and I've no idea what the tax issues would be in NZ (property taxes?). Secondly, I would imagine the costs of managing your property from a distance would easily consume any potential gains. And upfront costs would probably be double or triple those required to purchase a property here in the US. Heck, just the upfront legal costs in both NZ and USA would be a killer.

I bet you could put together a quick spreadsheet to evaluate some scenarios.

I'm guessing that, in the long run, it would be more prudent from a finanacial perspective to take the money you would invest in the NZ property and instead invest in a well balanced stock/bond portfolio. Then, make trips to NZ but rent a house there when you visit. Your gains with the investment will help offset the costs of your travels but certainly won't fully cover them. But, my wager would be that you would do better with this approach than by buying a property in NZ and acting as landlord from 10,000+ miles distance.

[veronica]

We have just bought two properties over here, the legal side is simple even for overseas investors, just have to keep it under 5 ? (acres or hectares can't remember) If you buy in one of the cities and its in reasonable condition it would be easy to rent out as they are always short of good rentals. Although property has risen sharply in the last 3 years and it is now reckoned to slow no one seems to think it will drop. Agents fees, we will try to find out for you.
I really think you guys, or at least one of you needs to come here on the spot and talk to people face to face to find out about the talent visa or job prospects. Sometimes things aren't as they read on paper. (or comp. screen).

[Timbo]

That sounds like very good advice Veronica. All too often I hear of people really struggling to get the advice and help they need, and then when they hit NZ it is almost as though none of it was relevant anyway, because the potential employers look at things in a different light to the Immi people.

[rensburg]

Just curious about this one...if you have enough money to invest in a property, you should also have enough to invest in a business, shouldn't you? Maybe a franchise or something...If you are really that committed to go, then at least with a business you'll be able to stay in NZ to run it, rather than being on the other side of the world looking in.

Regardless of whether you'll lose money or not (I doubt that you'll make any, but then that isn't the sole purpose of the investment), my real problem with you scheme is that it won't get you any further than you are now. You don't need to own property there to look around, and the fact that you do own property there won't help you in any way to get PM. It might feel like you're in NZ, while actually you'll still be just as stuck in Washington as you are now, with a few extra worries to keep you occupied.

Not that I have anything against wild ideas...my wife and I planned to go to australia on a three year student visa, just to get there, and work on PM from there. It would have cost a lot of money with no guarantee of success, and with two kids too. That was before we got selected to NZ. So I certainly do understand how you feel, but sometimes we need someone else to bring us back to reality.

By the way, if someone had told me our student visa scheme wouldn't work, I would have ignored them and gone ahead anyway. But that's just me...

[miep]

Dave,
I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by buying property here...
If you want to spend some time here its just as easy to rent someting. Property prices are not guaranteed to go up, at the moment they're stabilising and there is talk of them going down in the near future. Although from a legal point of view it's easy to buy here, you really have to spend some time here to figure out how the market works in order to feel comfortable buying. Its very easy to buy a dud here. And from personal experience I can tell you it makes no difference to your pr application whether or not you own real estate here. We bought while still on a work permit, before we even put our application for pr in and everybody told us we were nuts. we finally got our residence but it had nothing to do with owning real estate.
Having the property managed while you are in the US shouldn't be much of a problem, lots of agents around and as far as I know not very expensive.
You've also got to keep in mind that it can take a long time to sell property here and quite expensive. The standard agent fee for selling is 4% and that does not always include advertising.

So all in all, why buy ??

[Moorf]

That sounds like very good advice Veronica. All too often I hear of people really struggling to get the advice and help they need, and then when they hit NZ it is almost as though none of it was relevant anyway, because the potential employers look at things in a different light to the Immi people.

So true Timbo. I often wonder why I bothered doing so much research!! It is so, SO different being here ... it's easier to find info, you get a first hand view, you don't have to rely on other's perceptions and you will see JUST what a laugh the property market is :laugh :laugh

Not wanting to contradict your observations on the rental market Veronica - but having spoken to others it appears that there is a glut of rentals (talking from Chch perspective here) as the Kiwi's have jumped on the buy-to-rent bandwagon - seems that the Press on Wed and Sat used to have one page of rentals a while back and it's now up to 3 or 4 pages. Local agent predicts a glut of houses on the market soon as interest rates rise, too many rentals flood the market etc etc and they can't afford their "investment" home.

Of course, this is all my own findings and you would need to thoroughly research the areas you intend to buy in...

Just as a pointer with regards to "being here" - on the news the other day they announced a survey which concluded that 80% of jobs are not advertised!!!!! :eek

Moorf

[kamus]

Just curious about this one...if you have enough money to invest in a property, you should also have enough to invest in a business, shouldn't you? Maybe a franchise or something...If you are really that committed to go, then at least with a business you'll be able to stay in NZ to run it, rather than being on the other side of the world looking in.



Thank you all of whom took the time out to think and write about our query. I love this forum and the terrific people that populate it- you guys are reason enough to move to NZ!

Rensburg, would owning a business really get us closer to PR someday. assuming that we couldn't qualify for a LTBV now? We haven't yet tried but I have my doubts. Would NZIS give us credit for running a NZ business even if we weren't around all year to operate it?

I seem to remember that being a landlord isn't a legitimate business in NZIS's eyes, but I could be massively misremembering that.

Anyone looking for a business partner? :angel

Thanks again!

-Dave and Cynthia

[Michelle and Richard]

There was a quote in a local paper here in Auckland that said put your money in a term deposit not a rental property....... it came from a real estate agent. I'm not sure that now is a good time to be buying and for that reason we are hanging fire.

Michelle

[lynden]

To qualify for a LTBV you have to have relevant business experience and can only buy or set up a business you have been involved with before and you have to show that you have employed staff before and will employ staff in NZ and when you get it all together you have to show a business plan,cash projections,show you have done research,,,etc,,etc,,,etc and at the end of the day the final decision is with one person in the NZIS..I know from bitter experience last year we spent around £10,000 trying to get a LTBV ,sold our house ,visited NZ and found a business we had experience in,hired accountants,lawyers etc. and did all we could to get in only to be told that we were not considered to be of benefit to NZ and this was in the opinion of one man in an office in Wellington.... :wah